Wayne Root: ‘Destroy the Fed before the Fed destroys us’

Posted to IPR by Paulie. Originally posted at Root For America by Wayne Root.

“Little by little, business is enlarged with easy money. With the exhaustless reservoir of the government of the United States furnishing easy money, the sales increase, the businesses enlarge, more new enterprises are started, the spirit of optimism pervades the community…bankers are not free from it. They are human. The members of the Federal Reserve board will not be free from it. They are human…Everyone is making money. Everyone is growing rich. It goes up and up…until finally someone whose judgment was bad, someone whose capacity for business was small, breaks; and as he falls he hits the next brick in the row, and then another, and then another, and down comes the whole structure. That is no dream. That is the history of every movement of inflation since the world’s business began, and it is the history of many a period in our own country. That is what happened to a greater or less degree before the panic of 1837, of 1857, of 1873, of 1893 and of 1907…when credit exceeds the legitimate demands of the country the currency becomes suspected and gold leaves the country.”
A politician named ROOT

I am currently writing a book entitled, “The Conscience of a Libertarian” patterned after my hero Barry Goldwater and his all-time conservative best-seller, “The Conscience of a Conservative.” In my book, I present Barry Goldwater’s insightful philosophy back in 1959 (when he wrote his book) to prove that nothing in politics ever really changes. It has been half a century since Goldwater put pen to paper to write his amazing book. His words back in 1959 could easily be used today to describe virtually all of our country’s problems- and few readers would even notice that anything he talks about is half a century old. His description of problems and solutions back then turned out to be right on the money. If only we had listened.

Well the quote above by a certain politician named ROOT certainly describes the economic crisis of 2008 to a T: the bailout, the bankers’ mistakes, the stock market collapse, the credit freeze, and the reaction of the Federal Reserve. But they aren’t my words. And they weren’t spoken about the government banking crisis and bailout of 2008. Yes, they were the words of a politician named Root. Just not this Root.

Those words above were actually spoken in 1913 by Elihu Root, United States Senator from the state of New York. That distinguished politician Root went onto become Secretary of War and Secretary of State under President Teddy Roosevelt. But no truer words have ever been spoken. Despite being almost a century old, those words almost perfectly describe our current economic crisis. Once again, proving that nothing ever really changes. History repeats itself again and again- it’s just a recycling of the same events and same mistakes. Only those who study history can hope to avoid making those same mistakes over and over again.

As a former member of the 2008 Libertarian Presidential ticket who speaks across the country on economic issues, I am constantly asked, “How would you solve our current economic crisis?” In my new book, I’ll explain how I’d dramatically cut spending and taxes. I’ll explain how important it is to institute term limits (to limit the power of career politicians). I’ll explain the greatest threats to our economic prosperity- big government, big unions, and big taxes. More specifically the union threat that comes from teachers unions, auto unions, lawyer unions (known as The Bar Association) and perhaps the most damaging of all, government employee unions. I’ll describe the threat to our economy from illegal immigration. I’ll describe the threat to our economy from proponents of global warming. But before the book even comes out, I want to present what is perhaps the most important piece of the puzzle: the elimination of the Federal Reserve. It’s that important.

I have come to understand that we must destroy this cancer on our economy before the Fed destroys us. And in concert with the elimination of the Fed, we must go back to the Gold Standard. Is this a new solution? No, my namesake Elihu Root had the same advice back in 1913 when arguing against the formation of a central bank. If only we had listened to Root back then, just as we should have listened to Barry Goldwater back in 1959.

“Eliminate the Fed? Are you crazy?” I can hear the naysayers now. But the Federal Reserve isn’t the solution. Like big government (of which they are a tool), the Fed is the problem. Virtually every economic downturn since 1913, when the Fed was created, can be traced to Fed policies. Lest we forget, the Fed was around in 1929 when the stock market crashed. They were around for the Great Depression- actually they were right smack dab in the middle of the worst economic mess in U.S. history. Their policies helped to turn a deep recession into the Great Depression. Even if you’re a Fed defender, and don’t agree that they were a contributor to the Great Depression, you’ll have to admit that the Fed didn’t prevent or solve the deepest economic crisis in American history. They certainly didn’t see it coming. But then they never saw the financial crisis of 2008 coming either.

As recently as last April 2, 2008, the Fed didn’t even know we were in a recession. Back then, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke testified before a joint Congressional committee where he said, “A recession is possible.” He described the economy back then as in “slight contraction.” In response to those remarks, I wrote a political commentary (just like this one). My shocked and angry response was to ask “Are the Feds cooking the books?” That’s how certain I was as a small businessman that we had already been in a deep recession for months. I believed Bernanke’s statement to be so ignorant, naive and just plain dangerous, as to indicate he was either purposely lying to the American public, or hopelessly out of touch.

How is it possible that a small businessman like me clearly understood how bad things were in the American economy way back in April 2008, while our Fed Chairman was completely in the dark (or in denial)? The answer is simple- I live on Main Street. The Fed lives in an “Ivory Tower” and hasn’t a clue what’s happening in the real world, until after it happens.

The Fed doesn’t run a business. The Fed simply reads about business. They study reams of economic statistics- thereby deducing we have a problem long after guys and gals like me with a dozen, or a few dozen employees, have already experienced it. Small businesspersons are the “canary in the coal mine.”

Little ‘ol me knew there was a huge economic crisis going on, when the big, bad, powerful Fed still didn’t have a clue. How scary is that? These are the geniuses running the entire U.S. economy. Worse, Bernanke is widely considered one of the world’s experts on the Great Depression. This is a man who once served on a panel of experts that determine when recessions begin and end. Yet it turns out he doesn’t know his front from his end. It is obvious that if you want to know whether we’re in a recession or not, you’re better off asking the butcher, baker or candlestick maker. Or in this case, the butcher’s son.

By the way, in that same commentary, I reported that the economy for small businessmen like me was so bad that we were not only already in a recession, but facing the deepest recession since 1929- possibly a second great depression. It turns out that my prediction was far more accurate than anything that came from the lips of Ben Bernanke, or anyone in the Fed, last Spring. Perhaps we need to put a small businessperson in charge of the Fed. Or better yet, eliminate it altogether.

The Fed’s strategy is simple: The Fed floods the economy with “easy money” by either artificially lowering interest rates, or printing more money. That creates an artificial economic boom- to help politicians to get elected or re-elected. Invariably this artificial economic boom is followed by a very real “economic bust.” Recent examples of this artificial bubble bursting can be seen in the dotcom (technology & computer) world implosion in 2000, and again when the banking, credit and real estate markets collapsed in 2008.

If it’s so easy to see the mistake, why does the Fed continue to pursue a failed strategy? Good question. The answer is simple: political pressure from fat cats (big contributors like banks, Wall Street, real estate firms), special interests (big contributors), and voters- who demand prosperity, easy money, low interest rates, and entitlements from big government. Someone has to pay for all these giveaways, handouts, goodies, corporate welfare, bailouts, stimulus packages, and entitlement ponzi schemes. The Fed makes it all possible by printing up new money to pay for it all. Without the Fed printing presses working overtime, politicians couldn’t make promises to pay for every program under the stars. They certainly couldn’t afford to pay for all those promises.

Nothing in the Constitution gives Congress the authority to give control of monetary policy to a central bank. NOTHING. That same United States Constitution demands that our U.S. currency be backed by stable commodities- such as gold or silver. The gold standard is a very simple concept- paper notes (our currency) are simply set at a fixed value, by matching them to pre-set fixed quantities of gold.

The return to the gold standard is (excuse the pun) the “gold standard” for a stable, credible, reliable money supply and a true free market economy. Why don’t politicians want to set our currency to the gold standard? Simply because the gold standard stands in the way of the goals of big government proponents and their endless spending programs. The gold standard prevents politicians from inflating the money supply to hide the actual costs of the welfare state- from welfare itself, to corporate welfare, bailouts, handouts, entitlements, stimulus packages and nonstop wars across the globe. A billion here, and a billion there, and eventually this stuff starts to add up to serious money! That’s exactly what politicians are afraid of.

In 1971 Richard Nixon totally removed the dollar’s link to gold. This final deathblow to “real” American money created the fiat currency (paper notes) that we all use today. With this decision, the Fed could now print unlimited amounts of inherently worthless paper dollars, and in their eyes, were immune from any (immediate) consequences.Why did Nixon do it? To hide out-of-control government spending on the Vietnam war. Bombs, bombers, jet fighters and tanks cost big money. Governments can’t afford them- unless the Fed covers the actions (and tails) of big spending politicians by creating more money out of thin air.

Needless to say, since 1971 inflation and the CPI have soared and the savings of hardworking Americans have been subtlety robbed to fund the giant welfare system that exists today. Unlike the deflationary early 1930s, when the US was on a gold standard and hence couldn’t print unlimited dollars, today the US has no standards at all. The Fed can and does print (or create via computer) as many dollars as it wants and as a result, the money supply growth has vastly outstripped underlying real economic growth since 1971. Bernard Madoff has nothing on the U.S. government. Our government runs the biggest ponzi scheme on earth.

The politicians want no part of the gold standard because it threatens to limit their imaginations (and re-elections). It ruins their party. It keeps their imaginations (and greed) in check. With a gold standard in place there is no ability for a central bank to create money out of thin air to fund any and every bailout, stimulous package, pet project, or earmark. The gold standard forces politicians to live within their means. It forces banks to lend only to those with the credit to afford it- because the federal government is prevented from printing unlimited new money to bail them out.

The gold standard is a Libertarian’s dream. It prevents deficit spending. It prevents the unlimited hiring of government bureaucrats- and the unfunded pension liabilities that come with them. The gold standard hinders government’s ability to dole out massive welfare and entitlement programs. The gold standard stands in the way of government’s ability to redistribute wealth and pursue economic re-engineering. With the gold standard in place, government automatically becomes more open, honest and transparent- it either lives within its means or raises taxes, as opposed to simply printing more money (creating a stealth tax called inflation).

Instantly, with the gold standard in place, government is more responsible and accountable to the people and the taxpayers. Inflation caused by the wholesale printing of money by the Fed is theft- government sanctioned white-collar crime. Because of the wholesale printing of money by the Fed, taxpayers and citizens lose the value in their savings accounts and assets without knowing how or why.

Here is a good question to ask your political leaders and representatives: Why on earth would we want to rely on the wisdom of fallible human beings (at the Fed) to determine monetary policy and stability,
when the gold standard is infallible? There is concrete proof that the Fed makes mistakes- afterall, the Fed never saw this present economic crisis coming. Sound familiar? The flawless Fed never saw the 1929 crash or Great Depression coming. Perhaps an adjustment to their crystal ball is needed? The gold standard is objective- it doesn’t need to think. Humans on the other hand are subjective- they often make bad decisions (over-reacting, under-reacting, or being intimidated in response to political pressure at the moment).

Under the gold standard, money regulates itself. The gold standard regulates government by keeping spending under control. The gold standard regulates the behavior of banks (limiting their lending to qualified borrowers). The gold standard regulates savings- citizens are automatically incentivized to save more if their money is actually worth something. Why save $1.00 today, if that same $1.00 is worth 30% less tomorrow due to the Fed printing enormous amounts of new money?

The gold standard regulates interest rates, which suddenly reflect real supply and demand for credit, not numbers artificially created out of thin air to reflect political needs. The gold standard regulates business, as CEO’s must base their business decisions on sound policy (knowing government or the Fed won’t be there to bail them out).

Elihu Root realized all this back in 1913. It’s a shame we didn’t listen. Please study history and explain to me where the elder Mr. Root was wrong? Explain to me what exactly the Fed has accomplished in the almost 100 years since then? How have those results been an improvement in performance over the economic results the U.S. economy achieved under the gold standard?

If you don’t believe me, or Elihu Root, just listen to the words of Thomas Jefferson, the Founding Father who wrote our Declaration of Independence:

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
–Thomas Jefferson

Lastly, ask yourself the most important question of all: With record-setting budget deficits under President Bush; trillion dollar bailout and stimulus programs under President Bush; even bigger trillion dollar bailout programs under President Obama; even bigger trillion dollar stimulus packages under President Obama; record-setting handouts, entitlements and redistribution of wealth under President Obama (due to higher taxes); record-setting national debt under President Obama; and the Fed printing presses working overtime to create unlimited quantities of depreciating dollars (to cover up all this lavish spending); why would anyone want to own the dollar? Why indeed. We are in for a rough ride.

The antidote is simple: destroy the Fed before the Fed destroys us.

Wayne Allyn Root was the 2008 Libertarian Vice Presidential candidate. For more of his views, commentaries and to watch his many media interviews, please visit his web site at: www.ROOTforAmerica.com

145 thoughts on “Wayne Root: ‘Destroy the Fed before the Fed destroys us’

  1. libertariangirl

    Wayne can be long winded! LOL
    but its a good article.
    I hope he attends our LP state convention as a delegate , we need his vote to help implement our plans for new leadership.

  2. james forrest

    I read this response to all the spending by Wayne Root and most of it makes sense but isn’t someone like Wayne Root part of the problem. Here is a guy that used other people’s money to make money when he probably never could never make a living a decent living himself. Let me explain. Wayne Root is or was the owner of a company called “Winning Edge”. It was a publically traded company that at one time was trading at around $3.50 cents a share. By last year it had been delisted because in this person’s opinion and I’m sure many others he ran it into the ground. He would buy time to run his infomertial TV program with stockholders money to generate leads for his sales and cold calling boiler room operation. Wayne Root I believe also would take a huge salary for himself, somewhere I believe in the 600K to 800K plus plus range other perks and bonuses. All of this went on because it was a publically traded company. They would usually lose between 800K to 2 million every year according to public records. When his company stock went to under .01 cent a share about 2 years ago Betbrokers out of England an offshore punter bought Wayne’s company for $6.50 a share. Wayne seemed to hit it big, selling a company that was losing money hand over foot for shares that could be worth over 6 million dollars. It all seemed to be a dream for Wayne Root but the problem was he couldn’t cash in his shares for a certain amount of time. Needless to say you usually get, “nothing for nothing” and Betbrokers went bankrupt and Wayne Root got his company back. The only problem was for the first time in many, many years they had to stand on their own and pay their own way as far as advertising and generating new leads that they hoped would turn into clients. Not a suprise to anyone with any knowledge of what really was going on with Wayne Root and his company, they didn’t run a TV infomertial show for the first in their existence. What happened? Well, it seems like footing the bill and losing his own money for the first time in many, many years didn’t sit well with Wayne Root. Obviously football is where these sports handicapping companies make the lion’s share of their money. Repeated calls since Sunday to the office of Winning Edge go to a voicemail and the secretary doesn’t even seem to be in. Name the person who was trying to run for President of the United States under through the Libertarian party and possibly had the deck of cards come crumbling down on himself? If you answered the question with the name Wayne Root then you are correct. I’m sure he’ll come on numerous websites and make posts with his spin on why he closed down his company if that turns out to be the case. Just remember doesn’t Wayne Root standing on his Hummer for many pictures make it pretty tough to believe anything this carnival barker ever says?

  3. Betty Margolis

    Looks like the “”easy money”” might have run out on Mr. Root. Mr. Root always struck me as being a little shady.

  4. libertariangirl

    I dont care about his personal business dealings. if he is in this , the LP to use it , I dont care either . I want to use him back:)
    I think he is a great speaker , a quasi celebrity and can help the Nevada LP win notority , money and votes.
    Thats all I care about.

  5. paulie cannoli Post author

    Got it. Checked that the IP and email address were not yours. Zapped.

    BTW James Forrest and Betty Margolis share an IP address. Maybe they are a couple, or one Root hater who wants to make it seem like there are more than there are.

  6. paulie cannoli Post author

    #

    libertariangirl // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Paulie that last post wasnt me , must be that freak LJ again
    #

    6 paulie cannoli // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Got it. Checked that the IP and email address were not yours. Zapped.

    I should have just left the comment and changed it to his own name. Darn.

  7. Libertarian Joseph

    You haven’t proven your case. You have

    a. revealed personal info without my permission

    b. accused me of something, then, suspiciously, you refuse to disclose the “evidence.”

  8. paulie cannoli Post author

    You revealed your own personal information.

    I don’t have to disclose evidence to you. I’ll disclose it to Trent if he asks, Marzullo.

    BTW, you posted your snail mail addresss here before as well, although it may have been fake.

  9. james forrest

    How much money did Root raise for the party last year? The answer is not much at all. Trust me on this. people see right through this guy. He’s a gussied up slick used car salesman. Go to any search engine and type in “Wayne Root Scam”, and read all the articles about what this guy is really all about and then tell me if you feel the same about him. He makes Richard Nixon look like a saint.

  10. Bill Lussenheide

    Although the Fed can create money “Woof Poof” out of thin air, their are other agencies and vehicles that do the same as well.

    These must be reigned in along with the Fed.

    These include deriavative instruments that can carry margin leverage as high as 33 to 1 or more, and leveraged futures contracts.

    The SEC in 1934 created laws to limit margin investing. For many years it has been frozen at 2 to 1 , (or 50% margin reserve) for stock purchases. This is manageable and prudent.

    Wall Street, by creating new asset classes, ie, puts, calls, over leveraged futures and deriavitives, have skirted those safe guarding laws and created the leveraged mess we are in.

    Unregulated Hedge Funds, more than gladly jumped into these arenas, using even more leverage.

    Playing with money that isnt yours and created out of nothingness, ALWAYS needs to be closely watched, whether it is the Fed or private entities doing it.

  11. Andy

    I’m glad to see Root speaking out against the Federal Reserve.

    I took part in a short interview with Root at the LP National Convention in Denver with members of We Are Chage ( http://www.WeAreChange.org ) Colorado ( http://www.wearechangecolorado.org ). We asked him about the Federal Reserve and he did say that he favors abolishing it.

    We also asked him about 9/11 and whether or not he believes the officials government story and if he suspects that it was an inside job and he dodged the question. He said something like, “I am neither for or against you guys. 9/11 just isn’t my issue.” I brought up that the 9/11 Truth Movement has grown far more rapidly than the Libertarian Party and is much larger than the Libertarian Party, so it actually is a good issue to address. He responded by saying that taxes was the best issue to talk about. I said that I agree that taxes are an important issue, but that Libertarians have been talking about taxes for years and that it hasn’t really gotten us very far. His response was that he believed that he could talk about taxes better than any Libertarian candidate before him and that he could bring us a record number of votes by talking about taxes.

    This interview was recorded, but unfortunately I don’t think that the We Are Change guys ever posted it to the net.

  12. libertariangirl

    The LP Nevada ‘ Jim Duensing created the group Libertarians for Justice who sponsored the Thursday night debate on 9-11 truth and it was packed! Forgive my memory which is highly lacking , but did Root take part in that? If so we have the tape somewhere . ( LPNevada famous for taping things and never posting them LOL)

  13. libertariangirl

    you can be a little small with a hot -ass wife like he’s got.
    the man has good genes and great taste , thats for sure.
    his wife is stunning and quite un-pretentious and his kids are all gorgeous!

  14. james forrest

    He’s not a small business owner anymore because he just closed up his telemarketing room.

  15. libertariangirl

    Again , who the hell cares about his business dealings . i care how he can advance the LP in nevada and nothing else . Does everyone who has a business close have to be an asshole?
    He’s from Vegas baby , get over it:)

  16. libertariangirl

    yeah before i got to know him , before he had stuck around .
    its called changing ones mind moron

  17. Karole Noymann

    I’m getting sick and tired of all this Fed “printing money” crap. Actually, I toured the Federal Reserve Bank in New York and saw more cash being burned than printed (I bought a souvenir of shredded cash in a small display case).

    Root sounds like a total ignoramus who never heard of fractional reserve banking, money supply aggregates, or velocity. The Fed can print a quadrillion pieces of paper, but if nobody is spending it means about as much as a bucket of water on Titanic.

  18. libertariangirl

    and LJ once again you are wrong , I attacked Root BEFORE he got the nomination . I didnt attack him at all during the campaign douchey rodriguez!

  19. Steven R Linnabary

    The Fed can print a quadrillion pieces of paper, but if nobody is spending it means about as much as a bucket of water on Titanic.

    True to a point. The Fed can and does print money that they HOPE people don’t spend.

    Just as the Post Office prints stamps it hopes people merely “collect”, and not use. This becomes a Post Office money maker.

    This is why the Congress authorized the Fed to coin worthless “state” quarters a few years ago. It helps the bottom line when people buy and then “collect” complete sets of quarters for each of their grandchildren. The Congress went further when it authorized the “Presidential” dollar coins.

    Money that is coined or printed, but never goes into circulation, barely effects inflation.

    And a LOT of people have grandchildren for whom they are “collecting” sets of quarters and dollar coins.

    PEACE

  20. Thomas M. Sipos

    LibertarianGirl: “who the hell cares about his business dealings .”

    Anyone who cares about a person’s character.

    “i care how he can advance the LP in nevada and nothing else .”

    Nothing else? If that’s the attitude of most Libertarians, then the LP is a pretty sordid outfit.

    I thought it was only the Left who was only concerned with winning at all cost. I guess not.

    Root: “As a former member of the 2008 Libertarian Presidential ticket”

    His odd phrasing makes it sound like he ran on top of the ticket.

    A year and a half ago, Root knew nothing about libertarianism. Now, he’s using his VP run to market himself as the expert.

    Of course, he’s cramming to learn the positions and buzz words. Not because he believes in it (or in anything), but because it he’ll soon need a new gig.

  21. Libertarian Joseph

    Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand

    info: Atlas Shrugged is a novel by Ayn Rand, first published in 1957 in the United States. It was

    Rand’s last work of fiction before concentrating her writings exclusively on philosophy, politics

    and cultural criticism. At over one thousand pages in length, she considered it her magnum opus.[1]

    Also, at approximately 645,000 words, Atlas Shrugged is one of the longest novels ever written in

    European language. The book explores a number of philosophical themes that Rand would subsequently

    develop into the philosophy of Objectivism.

    The theme of Atlas Shrugged is the role of the mind in man’s existence and, consequently,

    presentation of the morality of rational self-interest.

    http://rapidshare.com/files/86715338/Rand__Ayn_-_Atlas_Shrugged_v1.0.txt

    enjoy

  22. Libertarian Joseph

    Mises: The Last Knight of Liberalism
    1143 pages | Ludwig von Mises Institute; 1st edition (September 4, 2007) | English | ISBN: 193355018X| PDF | 5 MB

    info: Here is a magisterial book for today and the ages, one that inspires awe for both the subject and the author who accomplished the seemingly impossible: a sweeping intellectual biography, constructed from original sources, of the 20th century’s most astonishing dissident intellectual. It has the apparatus of a great scholarly work but the drama of a classic novel.

    Ludwig von Mises’s colleagues in Europe called him the “last knight of liberalism” because he was the champion of an ideal of liberty they consider dead and gone in an age of central planning and socialism of all varieties. During his lifetime, they were largely correct. And thus the subtitle of this book.

    But he was not deterred in any respect: not in his scientific work, not in his writing or publishing, and not in his relentless fight against every form of statism. Born in 1881, he taught in Europe and the Americas during his century, and died in 1973 before the dawn of a new epoch that would validate his life and ideals in the minds of millions of people around the world. The last knight of liberalism triumphed.

    download: http://rapidshare.com/files/164822899/Mises_The_Last_Knight_of_Liberalism.pdf.html

  23. libertariangirl

    LibertarianGirl: “who the hell cares about his business dealings .”

    TS:_Anyone who cares about a person’s character.

    has he been charged with a crime? until then its all hearsay and rumors. you dont have to be a slimeball to have a failed business.

    “i care how he can advance the LP in nevada and nothing else .”

    TS:-Nothing else? If that’s the attitude of most Libertarians, then the LP is a pretty sordid outfit.
    I care about nothing else CONCERNING ROOT. I have kids and friends and many many things i ‘care’ about but im not going to nit-pick someones life apart for no reason .
    I care what Root can do to help the luke-warm LP in Nevada.

    TS:_Of course, he’s cramming to learn the positions and buzz words. Not because he believes in it (or in anything), but because it he’ll soon need a new gig.

    and the LP is the best gig he could find to make money? ROFL now that is funny, anyone who chooses the Libertarian Party as a career choice is going to be lacking…

  24. james forrest

    You should care about Root’s character because he’s about as dirty as they come.

  25. libertariangirl

    again where are the criminal or civil charges. does anyone have anything that isnt rumor , innuendo or speculation .
    if hes as ‘dirty as they come’ , where are the friggin charges ?

  26. Trent Hill

    “Right wing fiscal conspiracy nonsense disguising itself as libertarianism.”

    George Phillies believes inflation is JUST SUPER! I often wonder whatever happened to SHRINKING government,George? Advocating the Fed allows the State to simply print money for any project, including War or the administration of the Patriot Act.

  27. james forrest

    libertariangirl – He hasn’t been charged with anything yet but so hadn’t the Gov of Illinois until last week. He runs a sports handicapping telephone boiler roon. Do you know what that entails? If not I can go into detail with how they operate. Type in Wayne Root scam in a search engile and see what comes up. You’ll be reading about him and his operation for hours. Check with the better business bureau of las Vegas. His company registered complaints like a checkout stand at Kroger’s. I like most of the guy’s message but the problem is he’s a patholigoical liar and a good one at that. We’d all like to see someone from our party become president but let’s find someone with not such a checkered background.

  28. libertariangirl

    I know how sports handicapping boiler rooms work , Im a Native of Las Vegas:)
    This is the land of ‘slightly shadies’.
    Ive read some of the stuff already but if there was merit , wouldnt there be charges or an investigation?

  29. james forrest

    I’m sure he’s being or has been investigated countless times. He could be in trouble right now and that’s why he closed up shop. The guy was bringing down over 1 million dollars a year with his boiler room operation. You close it down for one of two reasons ONLY unless your on your deathbed and he’s not, your either losing money or your about to get in big trouble, PERIOD!!! By the way he made a statement on gambling911.com yesterday about closing up shot. The guy is a pathological liar. In his statement he said he was giving a speech last night in from of 500 people. I know for a fact not even 100 people were at this big speech of his. No one is perfect but do you want this guy at the head of our ticket???

  30. libertariangirl

    No , I want him as a Senate or Congressional or State Assembly or Mayoral candidate in Nevada.

    I would never sign on to support a certain candidate for Pres. this early . who knows who will be seeking our nomination , and whoever it is would still have to earn my vote and that remains to be seen.

  31. james forrest

    libertariangirl- Just my 2 cents but I wouldn’t let Wayne Root baby sit my grandkids. Just because someone is smooth at delivering a speech doesn’t mean I would want them in any government job other than picking up my trash. I’d support Theo my garbageman before I’d support Wayne Root and most people who have investigated Root’s background ,trust me feel the exact same way as I do. Wayne Root IMO and many others is just a step up from Bernie Madoff. You know who he is don’t you???

  32. Jerry S.

    Forty-three comments already on a Root post ! He need’s a few more years studying before writing the book. IMO. Oh well libertarians that support him will snatch them up…

  33. Karole Noymann

    “George Phillies believes inflation is JUST SUPER!”

    I could use a little inflation right. Gas prices are down, but then so is everything else including my investment portfolio.

    “I often wonder whatever happened to SHRINKING government,George?”

    I don’t care about shrinking government. I only care about my incredible shrinking assets. If expanding government expands my net worth (like it did in the good old days of the Clinton administration, and the middle years of the Bush administration) I’m all for expanding government.

    ” Advocating the Fed allows the State to simply print money for any project, including War or the administration of the Patriot Act.”

    States have been printing currency and minting coins long before the Fed ever existed. The Constitution gives them the power to do so, as well as regulate interstate commerce. Fed or no Fed, States will continue to find ways to finance their various schemes as they have been doing long before anybody ever thought of a Federal Reaserve System.

  34. Karole Noymann

    As to Root, he makes used car salesmen look respectable.

    I’d vote for Billy Mays or Ron Popeil before I’d vote for Wayne Root.

  35. Andy

    “libertariangirl // Jan 9, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    The LP Nevada ‘ Jim Duensing created the group Libertarians for Justice who sponsored the Thursday night debate on 9-11 truth and it was packed! Forgive my memory which is highly lacking , but did Root take part in that? If so we have the tape somewhere . ( LPNevada famous for taping things and never posting them LOL)”

    Wayne Root did NOT take part in the Libertarians for Justice event (which is one of the reasons that I did not vote for Wayne Root).

    Candidates who took part in the Libertarians for Justice event included Steve Kubby, Michael Jingozian, Mary Ruwart, and Mike Gravel.

  36. libertariangirl

    thanks Andy , I should know that being that I helped organize it:) like I said the memory has issues…

  37. Libertarian Joseph

    Hey, Wayne, Congress are the ones telling the Fed when to print and how much to print. That’s the way it works. I think we shouldn’t have a monetary system, but that’s besides the issue. Why would, in the midst of socialist masturation, would the, newly elected, social democratic majority, vote to end the Fed? That would defy common sense. You’re just babbling in the wind, friend.

  38. libertariangirl

    JF:_I’m sure he’s being or has been investigated countless times

    your sure in your head because youve heard stuff or youve actually seen proof of past investigations and current ones?

    JF:- He could be in trouble right now and that’s why he closed up shop.

    Could be? again could be is not good enuf to lodge such serious accusations. I want proof before i convict somebody

    JF:-You close it down for one of two reasons ONLY unless your on your deathbed and he’s not, your either losing money or your about to get in big trouble, PERIOD!!!

    deathbed , losing money or in trouble sounds like 3 reasons to me.
    so you agree it could be just losing money and no longer feasible?

    JF:_I know for a fact not even 100 people were at this big speech of his.

    100 people!! damn thats a bigger crown than most of us EVER ADDRESS.

  39. Thomas M. Sipos

    Libertarian Girl: “you dont have to be a slimeball to have a failed business. … and the LP is the best gig he could find to make money?”

    If his business is tanking, it may well be the best gig available. Remember, Root knew next to nothing about the LP, so he might have thought it was a big money institution.

    I meet many non-libertarians who think the LP is loaded. They see we have so many officers (national, state, and county) and candidates, and offices, and imagine our people all get high salaries, just like the Demopublicans.

    I’ve met one person who asked how much I got paid to be a delegate to the LP convention.

    I met another guy, a progressive, at an antiwar event. He asked if the LP might subsidize his theater company’s trip to Ireland to put on an antiwar play.

    Seriously, the outside world thinks the LP has lots of money.

    IAE, my theory, which I’ve blogged about for over a year, is that Root is trying to use his candidacy to get a book deal and/or media talk show gig.

    And it looks like I was right.

    “ROFL now that is funny, anyone who chooses the Libertarian Party as a career choice is going to be lacking…”

    Root got a book deal out of his LP run, and he’s announced that he’s in talks for a radio talk show. He’s certainly trying to milk his LP fame for all its worth. He likely foresaw his business tanking and needed to find a new gig.

    You might like being used by a “slightly shady” fellow, as you put it. I don’t.

  40. Thomas M. Sipos

    I always preferred Barr to Root.

    I could have voted for Barr/Kubby. Root was the deal-breaker. Other libertarians have told me they felt the same way.

    IAE, I wrote-in Ron Paul, who received 17,006 votes in California. One of them mine, 🙂

  41. libertariangirl

    You got to be kidding .you preferred Barr to Root?
    First off Nevada didnt cast 1 vote for either of them .
    secondly Barr is a former drug warrior , ex-cia (if there is such a thing as EX-cia) , he authored DOMA and prett much dedicated a large part of his career to denying liberty for people .

    Now some say Root is shady , I dont , I said las Vegas is the land of slighly shadies.
    Ive heard ruors of things and such , but he has never actually stole peoples liberty like Barr. honestly I cant believe you said that.

  42. Thomas M. Sipos

    Of course there are ex-CIA.

    There are ex-CIA, ex-Marines, ex-Mafia, and ex-Catholics.

    Of all those groups, I’ve heard people say, “Once an X, always an X.”

    Nonsense. These are not brainwash cults. People do leave these organizations.

    I’ve spoken briefly with both Barr and Root. Looked them both in the eyes.

    Barr gave me more sincere vibes about his conversion. I felt he was generally sincere in his opposition to expanding the war to Iran.

    I looked into Root’s eyes and saw a greedy little boy who wanted to grab all the marbles, and was trying to figure out what I wanted to hear, and what he had to say, to get what he wanted.

    Of all the candidates running for the LP, Root was on the bottom of my list. Alden Link had worse views, but Link was so pathetic, I felt sorry for the guy.

    Anyway, I’m glad I voted for Ron Paul.

  43. Andy

    “IAE, I wrote-in Ron Paul, who received 17,006 votes in California. One of them mine,”

    “Anyway, I’m glad I voted for Ron Paul”

    Me too!

  44. Milton

    Fiat v. Gold not the real issue

    Fiat v. Gold/Silver/Commodity is not the real issue and is diversionary. The real issue is allowing Private Banks to create Government-backed fiat money at INTEREST, therefore corrupting money as a representation of value and transforming it into a representation of debt that can never be repaid (because private banks only create the principle of debt). This is only many times more exacerbated by Fractional Reserve Lending.

    The fundamental problem with a commodity-based money system is that it impedes the full representation of an economy’s increasing production of value (ultimately deflationary). The fact that the total supply of gold (increased by mining or decreased hoarding) does not necessarily increase in supply to match an economy’s ever increasing production of value is why Fractional Lending was allowed by Governments in the first place.

    Fiat money created debt free by the Treasury in a full reserve lending banking system (a.k.a Lincoln’s United States Notes) would allow Government to directly control the total supply of money. This supply should then be legislated to increase at a SET rate to account for increasing population (with exceptions for emergencies such as war). If Government printed too much (Inflation), prices would rise and Government would be held ACCOUNTABLE by the populace. The converse is likewise true if Government policy was deflationary.

    In this system, fiat money represents value, derived both from Government’s exclusive recognition of the Notes as acceptable for tax and its use in the creation of value (infrastructure) erasing the ‘Gold as value’ argument. The inflationary effects of introduction of the notes would be controlled by the linked increase in banking reserve requirements (to ultimately 100%).

    MONETARY REFORM ACT = No National Debt, Accountable Inflation, Decreased Taxes

    47-min cartoon presenting the problem: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

    The Solution
    http://www.themoneymasters.com/mra.htm

  45. libertariangirl

    TS:_There are ex-CIA, ex-Marines, ex-Mafia, and ex-Catholics.

    Of all those groups, I’ve heard people say, “Once an X, always an X.”
    Nonsense. These are not brainwash cults. People do leave these organizations.

    The CIA is WAY different then the others you mentioned. because of the sensitive nature of the job , they take a LIFELONG oath to never talk about or reveal things about their job. All intelligence agencys are like that.

    TS:_I’ve spoken briefly with both Barr and Root. Looked them both in the eyes.
    Barr gave me more sincere vibes about his conversion

    Gave you a more sincere vibe? so you make your decisions based on mystical personal feelings? I too believe in vibes but I would never trust them so exclusively as to ignore the facts.
    the facts being that Barr has stolen liberty and denied rights and marginalized etc etc etc .
    now he says he had a conversion , and I dont know maybe he did , but it isnt enuf to ignore the past.
    concerning Root , everyone has’feelings’ and ‘vibes’ about his character , he seems like a used car salesman etc , but HE HAS NEVER DENIED ANYONE THEIR LIBERTY.
    its simple to judge – feelings or facts —

  46. libertariangirl

    I wanna say something else and it concerns Root , Andy , angela , M and anyone else who has had serious accusations lodged at them.
    It seems there are some people who dont know the difference between attacking political veiws and lodging serious charges at people. I dont think the people lodging them understand the seriousness of the things they say. we are talking about things like theft , sexual harassment etc , and these things can greatly affect someones livelyhood, character and even their very freedom.

    now I understand most LPers have no frame of reference , theyve never been to jail, and mostly live lily-white law-abiding lives and cant grasp the seriousness of what they say .
    to me name calling , attacking political veiws lobbying against are all ok.
    where the line gets crossed is when people accuse men like Root of fraudulent business dealings when there are no hard facts , when they accuse Andy of election fraud when in fact he was cleared , when they accuse men and women of sexual harassment when theres nothing but jokes and clumsy come-ons.
    Ive lost my freedom before and let me tell you I WOULD NEVER MAKE ACCUSATIONS AGAINST PEOPLE THAT INSINUATES THEY ARE CRIMINALS.
    you better be damn sure before you run off at the mouth with things that could get people in trouble with the law. Act like Libertarians please.

  47. james forrest

    libertariangirl- Let me repeat this one last time. I never said Wayne Root is a rapist or a murderer. That being said I think he and his boiler office committed fraud more times than a ten year old can count. I have knowledge of all the types of fraud he committed and there are many. Just to name a few are his salesmen would right up credit card charges on people without their consent. Did Wayne Root personally do this? No, but he knew it was going on. He is responsible for them if it’s his company.They had such a high rate of contested credit card charges that they went from one credit card company to run their charges to the next as quick as a Las Vegas prostitute turns a trick as they were dropped. Like the las Vegas reference? Wayne Root also put up on his website that he’s hitting 65%, 70% or 75% of his selections in a certainn sports. He was hitting that percentage on particular club. The only problem is he had 8, 9 or 10 different clubs. One of the clubs was surely going to go 7-3 each year. He wouldn’t give his entire record or specify that it was in his Inner Circle, Millionaires, billionares or No limit club. Both of these examples that I’m giving you are FRAUD. Do you get it??? Do you want me to continue to spell it out for you even further??? He’s not going to win anything he ever runs for. No one but the total uninformed would ever vote for him. He’s not ever winning anything except the star on the walk in Las Vegas that he bought 15K for. He’s a legend in his own mind. In anyone who’s informed he’s at best just a step above Bernie Madoff.

  48. libertariangirl

    JF- Let me repeat this one last time. I never said Wayne Root is a rapist or a murderer. That being said I think he and his boiler office committed fraud more times than a ten year old can count

    I never said you said Root was a rapist or murderer. I said”the line gets crossed is when people accuse men like Root of fraudulent business dealings when there are no hard facts ”
    above you repeat “That being said I think he and his boiler office committed fraud more times than a ten year old can count.

    Do you need me to spell it out? where are the charges? against anyone?
    seriously Im not saying your wrong Im just saying you might be . I need what I like to call proof .

  49. james forrest

    Just because someone isn’t in jail doesn’t mean that they haven’t committed crime(s). Bernie Maddoff never was even indicted of a crime and he was committing fraud for over 30 years. I’d tell Wayne Root to his face that he is a criminal. He’s a liar and a crook. He just hasn’t been indicted yet. He closed down his business because he was losing money. No crime there but for the first time in at least 7 or 8 years he had to pay for his advertising and he couldn’t pass through his expenses and emormous salary to the stockholders or the last company that bought his company and he couldn’t even come close to breaking even so he closed down shop. If your a believer in the guy go buy one of his books on Amazon, I think the last time I saw it, you could purchase it for 49 cents. Read it and see if his principles lead you to the promise land? If not, use it like most of the other 8 people who bought the book for kindling in your fireplace.

  50. libertariangirl

    who and what investigative arm has officially investigated or indicted him previously or now?

    you lodge all kinds of charges , how come noones done anything about it ?

  51. james forrest

    I never said he has been investigated by anyone. I feel and many people feel he’s a crook who has committed fraud and should be in prison with the rest of the convicted criminals. You can back him all you want but you won’t have to many people who will be willing to stand next to you in your support for a scumbag like Root.

  52. libertariangirl

    forrest // Jan 11, 2009 at 2:23 pm
    I never said he has been investigated by anyone.

    forrest // Jan 10, 2009 at 3:54 pm
    I’m sure he’s being or has been investigated countless times
    your not very good at this are you?

  53. libertariangirl

    JF_I feel and many people feel he’s a crook who has committed fraud and should be in prison with the rest of the convicted criminals.

    feelings , nothing more than feelings…

  54. james forrest

    I don’t know for a fact that he has been investigated. Do you? Would it suprise me that he has been investigated for FRAUD and many other crimes I and many others believe he has committed? Not in the least.

  55. libertariangirl

    Geez LJ thats twice Ive agreed with you in 1 day:)
    I believe he could win State Assembly. congress probably not , but hed still draw attention .

    Now mayor is an interesting case . We have a friggin character for Mayor , Mr ex-mob lawyer las vegas himself Oscar goodman. He is colorful and flamboyant and people love him . Root possesses that same kind of colorful energy and I think he stands a shot.

    JF_I don’t know for a fact that he has been investigated

    Thank you thats all I wanted.

  56. libertariangirl

    BTW i believe I meant Gary not Andy when referring to people charged with unsubstantiated claims. my bad

  57. paulie cannoli Post author

    The CIA is WAY different then the others you mentioned. because of the sensitive nature of the job , they take a LIFELONG oath to never talk about or reveal things about their job.

    I’ve had some jobs that involved confidentiality agreements. Doesn’t make me a current employee.

    now I understand most LPers have no frame of reference , theyve never been to jail, and mostly live lily-white law-abiding lives and cant grasp the seriousness of what they say .

    Not me. I’ve been to jail in seven states, some states multiple times. I was even guilty some of those times. Some of the crimes I was charged with should never have been crimes, others should still be. Never been to prison though.

    when they accuse Andy of election fraud when in fact he was cleared

    I’ve never heard Andy accused of that. Gary may be who you mean.

  58. libertariangirl

    Once a spook always a spook , CIA people tell you that themselves:)

    ive been to jail to thats why i would be absolutely sure befor i lodged allegations that could affect someones livelyhood or freedom .

    i realized my mistake and Gary was who I meant

  59. Jerry S.

    “The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media.” – William Colby – Former CIA Director

    “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” – William Casey, CIA Director 1981

    “The American people should be made aware of the trend toward monopolization of the great public information vehicles and the concentration of more and more power over public opinion in fewer and fewer hands.” – Spiro Agnew

  60. libertariangirl

    That was Nevada yelling CIA during the applause portion of Barrs acceptance speech.

    very immature and unproffessional of us…
    lol

  61. Bob Hanfordi

    Let’s end this discussion right now if we can on Wayne Root. He’ll never win any election even it’s PTA president if he can’t buy the election like he bought the walk of fame star. The guy is a joke.

  62. Andy

    “I’ve never heard Andy accused of that. Gary may be who you mean.”

    I was accused of “extortion” for asking to get paid for work on an LP ballot access drive in Nebraska where the payment was several months late (and where I bailed out two other petitioners by paying them $6,000 out of my own pocket after being told that I was going to be reimbursed shortly) and where the fundraiser who absconded with the funds and renegged on a contract was on the LNC payroll. I finally recieved the remainder of the money 10-11 months after the work was done and I never did recieve the credit card style interest or .50 cent per signature late fee that I was promised. Of course the only one who made this nutty accusation was Angela Keaton.

  63. Andy

    libertariangirl said: “We have a friggin character for Mayor , Mr ex-mob lawyer las vegas himself Oscar goodman.”

    I remember that Paul got that Mayor of Las Vegas to sign a ballot initiative petition to legalize an ounce of marijuana for adults 21 and over in Nevada at an art show in Las Vegas back in 2004. The Mayor put down city hall as the address where he’s registered to vote (you are supposed to be registered to vote at your home) so the signature did not likely count.

    Actually, now that I think of it, I’m pretty sure that libertariangirl signed that same petition for me at the University of Nevada Las Vegas campus (assuming that libertariangirl is who I’m thinking that it is). I was gathering signatures on that campus and I happened to be walking by the Student Center when I ran into this small group that I asked to sign the petition. They said that they wanted to sign so I handed them clipboards and pens and while they were signing they told me that they were Libertarians. I told them that I was a Libertarian too. Then they asked me if I was going to the debate. I said, “What debate?” They said that they had a candidate for Congress named Jim Duensing who was going to debate his Democrat and Republican opponents up stairs in the Student Center. I didn’t know about it so I decided to check it out. Jim Duensing made a good showing of himself in that debate, especially when he asked the Democrat incumbent woman why she voted for the Patriot Act without having read it, and if she makes it a regular practice to vote for bills that she hasn’t even read. They were supposed to have a question & anwser session with the candidates after the debate but it got cut short after one question from somebody who was probably a plant for the Democrat lady as it was a softball question that was obviously taylor made for her and then after anwsering that question the question & anwser sessions was abruptly called to a halt (even though many people in the room had their hands up) and the Democrat lady bolted out of the room pretty quickly. After the debate was over I got some other people in the room to sign the petition, including Jim Duensing.

    Libertariangirl, weren’t you that chick that had dreadlocks back in 2004? You were also at the recent LNC meeting in San Diego (minus the dreadlocks), correct?

  64. paulie cannoli Post author

    I remember that Paul got that Mayor of Las Vegas to sign a ballot initiative petition to legalize an ounce of marijuana for adults 21 and over in Nevada at an art show in Las Vegas back in 2004. The Mayor put down city hall as the address where he’s registered to vote (you are supposed to be registered to vote at your home) so the signature did not likely count.

    I was there but I was not the one who got that signature.

    Actually, now that I think of it, I’m pretty sure that libertariangirl signed that same petition for me at the University of Nevada Las Vegas campus (assuming that libertariangirl is who I’m thinking that it is). I was gathering signatures on that campus and I happened to be walking by the Student Center when I ran into this small group that I asked to sign the petition. They said that they wanted to sign so I handed them clipboards and pens and while they were signing they told me that they were Libertarians. I told them that I was a Libertarian too. Then they asked me if I was going to the debate. I said, “What debate?” They said that they had a candidate for Congress named Jim Duensing who was going to debate his Democrat and Republican opponents up stairs in the Student Center.

    I saw them all walking the other way afterwards but I don’t think we talked.

    Libertariangirl, weren’t you that chick that had dreadlocks back in 2004? You were also at the recent LNC meeting in San Diego (minus the dreadlocks), correct?

    That’s her.

  65. Andy

    libertariangirl said: “It seems there are some people who dont know the difference between attacking political veiws and lodging serious charges at people. I dont think the people lodging them understand the seriousness of the things they say. we are talking about things like theft , sexual harassment etc , and these things can greatly affect someones livelyhood, character and even their very freedom.

    now I understand most LPers have no frame of reference , theyve never been to jail, and mostly live lily-white law-abiding lives and cant grasp the seriousness of what they say .

    to me name calling , attacking political veiws lobbying against are all ok.
    where the line gets crossed is when people accuse men like Root of fraudulent business dealings when there are no hard facts , when they accuse Andy of election fraud when in fact he was cleared , when they accuse men and women of sexual harassment when theres nothing but jokes and clumsy come-ons.
    Ive lost my freedom before and let me tell you I WOULD NEVER MAKE ACCUSATIONS AGAINST PEOPLE THAT INSINUATES THEY ARE CRIMINALS.
    you better be damn sure before you run off at the mouth with things that could get people in trouble with the law. Act like Libertarians please.”

    I TOTALLY AGREE with you here, libertariangirl!

    I’ve never been to jail, but I have been falsely accussed of things and hassled and detained by the police on several occassions, and believe me, even if you don’t go to jail it is no fun.

    I have no idea if Wayne Root has committed fraud or not in his business dealings. My criticisms of Root have been based on politics and strategy. The reasons that I did not vote for Root in Denver were as folllows (in no particular order).

    1) I thought that he was too new to the Libertarian Party and Movement and didn’t seem to have it all figured out so I didn’t feel comfortable with him on the Presidential ticket.

    2) He was a Republican who switched to Libertarian, which I don’t have a problem with in and of itself, however, he didn’t seem to go far enough when it came to repudiating the neo-conservatives.

    3) His flip-flopping on the wars in Iraq and Afganistan. He was for it, then he was against it, then he was sort of for it, then he was sort of against it.

    4) The fact that he did not sign the Libertarians for Justice ( http://www.LibertariansforJustice.org )petiton to have a real investigation into what happened on 9/11 and therefore did not bother showing up at their event which was held at the LP National Convention in Denver. I – along with some members of We Are Change Colorado ( http://www.WeAreChage.org ) confronted Mr. Root about 9/11 at the Convention and he dodged the questions.

    5) Wayne Root’s primary focus as a candidate was to reach out to disaffected Republicans/conservatives and urge them to support the Libertarian Party. Now I’m not opposed to reacing out to disaffected Republicans/conseravatives, however, what I did not like is that Mr. Root had no plan to reach out to the rest of the political spectrum, as in independents and people on the left. Writing off around 2/3 of the political spectrum and only focusing on disaffected Republicans/conservatives is shortsighted in my opinion.

  66. Andy

    Paulie said: “I was there but I was not the one who got that signature.”

    I think that your memory is faulty here. I specifically remember you getting that signature from the Mayor at that art festival in Las Vegas. I remember going up to you after that because I was suprised that the Mayor signed your petition you showed me the signature and said that it probably wouldn’t count because he put city hall down as his address.

    I remember that night quite well. You and Mark didn’t feel like being there at first and wanted to bail but then I took the bull by the horns and grabbed my clip boards and starting asking people to sign and it ended up being good so you and Mark joined in. I remember some other petitioners popped up. I also remember that there was some black guy there with dreadlocks who was selling some kind of communist/socialist newspaper and I remarked that it was kind of ironic that a communist/socialist was engaging in a capitalist act by selling a newspaper but that you never seem to see any Libertarians doing that and they are a party that advocates free market capitalism.

  67. Libertarian Joseph

    “I remarked that it was kind of ironic that a communist/socialist was engaging in a capitalist act by selling a newspaper but that you never seem to see any Libertarians doing that and they are a party that advocates free market capitalism.”

    How do you know that it was a party operation? It could’ve been of his own doing, or perhaps, a separate organization?

    I believe the LP is not doing it because all there is is negative energy within the LP. Other than in a handful of state parties, nothing positive is going on in the LP. I also believe it’s due to the fact that most Libertarians are older, and thus, have no time to walk around, passing around LP newsletters.

    That can change, however, with new leadership, and new direction, we’re just not seeing it.

  68. Andy

    “paulie cannoli // Jan 11, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    Most of that is correct except that I was definitely not the one who got Goodman’s signature.”

    I think that you are wrong here. I remember you walking by the Mayor and asking him to sign and being suprised when he took your clipboard and signed. This happened in that outdoor area in the back of that art gallery.

    If you don’t think that it was you who got the Mayor to sign then who do you think got his signature?

    I’m like positive that it was you.

  69. Andy

    “How do you know that it was a party operation? It could’ve been of his own doing, or perhaps, a separate organization?”

    All I know was that it was some kind of communist/socialist newspaper that he was selling.

  70. libertariangirl

    Libertariangirl, weren’t you that chick that had dreadlocks back in 2004? You were also at the recent LNC meeting in San Diego (minus the dreadlocks), correct?

    thats me , and that was us at UNLV too .
    Paulie i dont remember you pot initiative , I worked on the last one and question 9 also.

  71. libertariangirl

    I was also petitioning at First Friday which is the Arts thing your referring too .

    I miss my dreds , it made me so NOT BLEND.
    now im just like everyone else:(

  72. paulie cannoli Post author

    Our crew was me, Andy, Mark Pickens, Christy and Raver. We worked UNLV a lot, plus a bunch of other places. Fall 2004.

    Andy, am I forgetting anyone?

  73. Andy

    “thats me , and that was us at UNLV too .
    Paulie i dont remember you pot initiative , I worked on the last one and question 9 also.”

    What are you initiative are you refering to when you said you worked on the last one, and what was question 9?

    That marijuana initiative that we gathered signatures for in Nevada in the fall of 2004 did not end up passing. I think that it got like 44-46% of the vote for something like that. MPP said that they are going to try the intiative again, this time for the 2010 ballot.

  74. Andy

    “paulie cannoli // Jan 11, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    Our crew was me, Andy, Mark Pickens, Christy and Raver. We worked UNLV a lot, plus a bunch of other places. Fall 2004.

    Andy, am I forgetting anyone?”

    You forgot to mention UtahBoy.:)

  75. libertariangirl

    But Paulie I didnt know you then so I probably wasnt paying attention. I remember the office for the CCRM was way the heck out there and I didnt like the tshirts which had the saying ‘i am not a criminal’ . I thought even using the word was arguing under the opponents frame

  76. libertariangirl

    the last one was the Commitee to Control and Regulate Marijuana , it sought to completely legalize 1oz or less for adults among other things. the previous initiative in 02 was under the org. called citizens for responsible law enforcement ( I particularly love that play with words) and it sought to legaize a qu . pound. Both initiatives were sponsored by MPP

  77. libertariangirl

    the last one was the Commitee to Control and Regulate Marijuana , it sought to completely legalize 1oz or less for adults among other things. the previous initiative in 02 was under the org. called citizens for responsible law enforcement ( I particularly love that play with words) and it sought to legaize a qu . pound. Both initiatives were sponsored by MPP

  78. Andy

    “93 libertariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    I was also petitioning at First Friday which is the Arts thing your referring too .”

    This event was at some art gallery which I think wasn’t too far from the Las Vegas strip. I think that it was somewhere around if you keep going past where all of the huge newer hotels are into the older section of Las Vegas.

    Where you at the same art gallery as us gathering signatures on that marijuana petition back in the fall of 2004, or were you there another time?

  79. libertariangirl

    I dont know how many times the CCRM petitioned at First Friday , The art district is just south of downtown ( the older part) on Charleston and Main .yes i petitioned there with Jim Duensing and a large group of others . we all met at headquarters before going . it was 2004 fall.

  80. Andy

    “libertariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    the last one was the Commitee to Control and Regulate Marijuana , it sought to completely legalize 1oz or less for adults among other things. the previous initiative in 02 was under the org. called citizens for responsible law enforcement ( I particularly love that play with words) and it sought to legaize a qu . pound. Both initiatives were sponsored by MPP”

    I know that also MPP did an initiative in Nevada in like 2000 or 2002 that did not pass. That was the one so that an adult could have 10 ounces of marijuana without going to jail.

    The one that we worked on in 2004 was watered down. It only allowed for one ounce and it was also going to tax and regulate it.

    We also worked on an initiative in Colorado that would have made it so an ounce of marijuana ould be legal for adults 21 and over with no strings attached. This one got like 40-42% of the vote.

  81. libertariangirl

    the one in 2002 was question 9 . The most notable memory I have of that is the absolute, sheer excitement we felt when Police Union Cheif Andy Anderson said he spoke with his men and they agreed to endorse it ,
    then , of course the powers that be snapped him and he had to resign

  82. Andy

    “libertariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    I dont know how many times the CCRM petitioned at First Friday , The art district is just south of downtown ( the older part) on Charleston and Main .yes i petitioned there with Jim Duensing and a large group of others . we all met at headquarters before going . it was 2004 fall.”

    I definitely do not remember seeing you or Jim Duensing there, and the place wasn’t that big and I walked around so it seems that if we had been there at the same time I would have seen you all.

    Perhaps there was more than one event there and you were there at a different time.

  83. Andy

    “libertarariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    the one in 2002 was question 9 . The most notable memory I have of that is the absolute, sheer excitement we felt when Police Union Cheif Andy Anderson said he spoke with his men and they agreed to endorse it ,
    then , of course the powers that be snapped him and he had to resign.”

    Wow.

    I remember petitioning on the outskirts of the Taste of Las Vegas festival near a crosswalk and this cop who was directing traffic heard me asking people to sign a petition to legalize marijuana for adults 21 and over and he shouted, “Legalize marijuana, that’s crazy!” to which I responded, “Well, should we outlaw beer and prozac too, then we could put just about everyone in jail?” The cop wouldn’t respond to me after that.

  84. libertariangirl

    The one that we worked on in 2004 was watered down. It only allowed for one ounce and it was also going to tax and regulate it.

    I got in MANY a fight with local L ibs and fellow would be candidates . We had a unified platform for our candidate caucus ‘Vote for a Change’ and the 04 i itiative to tax and regulate was on it . Many purists in our party freaked out that we would support regulating anfd taxing . to me in was a no-brainer , it would save people from jail and that is more important . I mean they only had philosophy to grand stand on , they did not know anyone whose livelyhood would be affected , but I did , Still I would say to them we can bitch about taxing and regulating but there are people in cages right now that would love to pay some taxes to get out . more importantly there are those who will be in cages in the future if it doesnt pass

  85. libertariangirl

    the art gallery where you were , could you cross the street and walk around to peoples open air booths and such?

  86. Steven R Linnabary

    “The Mayor put down city hall as the address where he’s registered to vote (you are supposed to be registered to vote at your home) so the signature did not likely count.”

    THIS should have made you jump with glee!! I can only dream of catching my mayor at election fraud. And my mayor would be happy to charge me with election fraud for merely turning in a false signature.

    PEACE

  87. Andy

    libertariangirl: “I got in MANY a fight with local L ibs and fellow would be candidates . We had a unified platform for our candidate caucus ‘Vote for a Change’ and the 04 i itiative to tax and regulate was on it . Many purists in our party freaked out that we would support regulating anfd taxing . to me in was a no-brainer , it would save people from jail and that is more important . I mean they only had philosophy to grand stand on , they did not know anyone whose livelyhood would be affected , but I did , Still I would say to them we can bitch about taxing and regulating but there are people in cages right now that would love to pay some taxes to get out . more importantly there are those who will be in cages in the future if it doesnt pass.”

    I totally agree libertariangirl. That initiative may have been watered down, but it was a step in the right direction and merited support.

    BTW, I remember those glossy “Vote for a Change” pamphlets that you all made up because I volunteered to hand them out while I was petitioning on that marijuana initiative and some guy in your group gave me a stack of like 200 of them (and I handed everyone of them out). This is yet another example of how it is better to have REAL Libertarians as petitioners than just mercenaries who are only out to make a buck.

    I’ll have to say that the Clark County (which is where Las Vegas is) LP was one of the most active chapters of the party that I’ve seen anywhere. You all were putting up signs and spreading those pamphlets all over town. One day I drove by this intersection and I saw a group of you all holding up signs and handing out pamphlets to people walking by and cars that were stopped. Somebody in your group spotted the “Badnarik for President” and “Vote Libertarian” stickers on my car and gave me a thumbs up.

    Incidentily, I worked on this petition drive in Florida in early 2005 where the campaign flew in petitioners from other states. One petitioner was this woman from Las Vegas. I had a conversation with her one time where I brought up that I’m a member of the Libertarian Party. She said something like, “Oh, Libertarian Party, I like them. Somebody gave me one of their pamphlets before the last election and I agreed with everything in it.” Then I asked her if she had voted Libertarian in the election, and she said that she wanted to but that she didn’t because she felt that she had to keep whom she had percieved to be the greater of two evils (for her it was John Kerry) out of office. She said that she would vote Libertarian if she felt that they had any chance of winning.

  88. Andy

    “libertariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    the art gallery where you were , could you cross the street and walk around to peoples open air booths and such?”

    I remember the art gallery wasn’t that big, and the front of it was along a city sidewalk. The back of it was kind of like an alley, but they had stuff set up in the back for the event.

  89. Andy

    “THIS should have made you jump with glee!! I can only dream of catching my mayor at election fraud. And my mayor would be happy to charge me with election fraud for merely turning in a false signature.”

    You’d have a hard time of getting a fraud case for something like that. People put addresses that don’t count on petitions all the time, mostly by mistake. If anyone made an issue of it he could just claim that he was confused and put that address down as a mistake, but the chances of anyone even making an issue out of something like that are remote.

  90. libertariangirl

    That was a great year for us, last one not so much .
    We handed out , by hand, over 90,000 brochures. Thank you so much for helping and you are right I prefer LP petitioners.
    We called that our road rallys and it went like this : we picked a super busy , backed up intersection , then we’d set up our sighns up and down the streets , our big plactic platform signs.

    Then half our activists would grab our party-election signs and either walk up and down the street or grab brochures and walk amongst traffic , passing out brochures to cars.
    I was the girl on the megaphone and good god did i get tired of yelling my spiel.I was alo in charge of ‘calling the light’ which meant warning my guys they had 3-5 seconds to clear the street . Im proud to say i had no injuries or deaths:)

    we did that twice a week for 4 hrs each , then we’d paper lots. 3 weeks out from election we added 2 – 8hr shifts to road rallys .

  91. Andy

    “paulie cannoli // Jan 11, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    Nope. It was one of the other petitioners who showed up who was not on our crew.”

    I still think that you are wrong. I specifically remember you showing me the signature of the Mayor, and I remember seeing this happen and being suprised that he signed for you.

  92. Andy

    “libertariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    That was a great year for us, last one not so much .
    We handed out , by hand, over 90,000 brochures. Thank you so much for helping and you are right I prefer LP petitioners.
    We called that our road rallys and it went like this : we picked a super busy , backed up intersection , then we’d set up our sighns up and down the streets , our big plactic platform signs.

    Then half our activists would grab our party-election signs and either walk up and down the street or grab brochures and walk amongst traffic , passing out brochures to cars.
    I was the girl on the megaphone and good god did i get tired of yelling my spiel.I was alo in charge of ‘calling the light’ which meant warning my guys they had 3-5 seconds to clear the street . Im proud to say i had no injuries or deaths:)

    we did that twice a week for 4 hrs each , then we’d paper lots. 3 weeks out from election we added 2 – 8hr shifts to road rallys .”

    That is AWESOME that you all did that libertariangirl. That is EXACTLY the kind of activism that the Libertarian Party needs. You all should have kept this up and it ought to be duplicated by every Libertarian Party chapter around the country. If every Libertarian Party chapter around the country did stuff like this on a regular basis the party would be further ahead right now than it is.

    One small criticism though, you all should have made the printed words bigger on those signs that you all made. It was hard to read what they said from a distance. You should have had Libertarian Party and the contact phone number and website address in big bold letters that people could read from a distance.

    Oh, and I did see some of those pamphlets that you all made on the ground and in car windows in parking lots.

    Major kudos to the Clark County, Nevada LP!

  93. libertariangirl

    I agree we bought alot of little useless signs . I kept saying we’d have done beter with fewer , bigger signs . noone could read them.
    we used to be opposed to ‘papering lots’ then the closer e-day arrived we had to something to get rid of them:)

  94. Andy

    “libertariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    I agree we bought alot of little useless signs . I kept saying we’d have done beter with fewer , bigger signs . noone could read them.”

    If – or hopefully, WHEN – you all do this again you ought to remember to make bigger signs where the words Libertairan Party and contact information for the party are in BIG BOLD LETTERS that people can actually see from a distance.

    “we used to be opposed to ‘papering lots’ then the closer e-day arrived we had to something to get rid of them:)”

    Papering lots gets into a litter issue so it is not my first choice either, but on the flip side, at least you are were getting the message out.:)

  95. Andy

    Man, I really want to go back to Nevada. I hope that that marijuana legalization initiative petition drive starts this year.

    I’ve been in Nevada several times since that initiative in 2004 (I was just there a couple of weeks ago in fact), but I was never there for more than a few days. I’d like to work there again for a few weeks, just as long as it is not when the weather is super freaking hot.

  96. libertariangirl

    oh geez that would be awesome. Ecspecially since I know you guys now.When will guys know if the petition is a go-ahead?

  97. Andy

    “libertariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    oh geez that would be awesome. Ecspecially since I know you guys now.When will guys know if the petition is a go-ahead?”

    I don’t know. I briefly spoke to Rob Kampia at the LP National Convention in Denver and he mentioned the possibility of doing the petition in the fall of 2009, but this is NOT etched in stone, so I don’t know when they are going to start it.

    “libertariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    when its hot man is it HOT.”

    I think that it would be really stupid to do the petition drive when it is really hot in Nevada. It is more difficult to work and more difficult to get people to sign when the weather is uncomfortable. Whenever they do it they should try to avoid at least most of the really hot weather.

    “what were you here for?”

    The last two times I was in Las Vegas (which was in November and December) I was there to see Ultimate Fighting Championship events. I’m one of those crazy Mixed Martial Arts fans.:)

  98. Andy

    “libertariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    oh geez that would be awesome. Ecspecially since I know you guys now.When will guys know if the petition is a go-ahead?”

    It is too bad that I didn’t get to talk to you and Jim Duensing longer in San Diego. We should have gone to lunch of diner or something.

  99. Andy

    “libertariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    when its hot man is it HOT.”

    I have contemplated moving to Nevada several times. The main reason that I never did it is because it gets so freakin’ hot there in the summer. Perhaps I could live there part of year.

  100. libertariangirl

    yeah that would have been cool. I like MMA too but not enuf to pay to see a show. whats your email again , ill send you my number so you can give me a call next time your in town:)

  101. Andy

    “libertariangirl // Jan 11, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    yeah that would have been cool. I like MMA too but not enuf to pay to see a show. whats your email again , ill send you my number so you can give me a call next time your in town:)”

    libertariangirl, you can e-mail me at thatpetitionguy@yahoo.com .

  102. paulie cannoli Post author

    I still think that you are wrong. I specifically remember you showing me the signature of the Mayor, and I remember seeing this happen and being suprised that he signed for you.

    You have a false memory. I 100% guarantee it was not me.

  103. paulie cannoli Post author

    But Paulie I didnt know you then so I probably wasnt paying attention. I remember the office for the CCRM was way the heck out there and I didnt like the tshirts which had the saying ‘i am not a criminal’ . I thought even using the word was arguing under the opponents frame

    The T-shirts were not the time we were there.

  104. paulie cannoli Post author

    I got in MANY a fight with local L ibs and fellow would be candidates . We had a unified platform for our candidate caucus ‘Vote for a Change’ and the 04 i itiative to tax and regulate was on it . Many purists in our party freaked out that we would support regulating anfd taxing . to me in was a no-brainer , it would save people from jail and that is more important . I mean they only had philosophy to grand stand on , they did not know anyone whose livelyhood would be affected , but I did , Still I would say to them we can bitch about taxing and regulating but there are people in cages right now that would love to pay some taxes to get out . more importantly there are those who will be in cages in the future if it doesnt pass

    I’m with you on that one. The one thing that I had trouble with was the provision that increased penalties for 18-21 year olds, including mandatory time for “distribution” – which would include passing a joint, pipe or bong. But overall, it would have been a good step, and it’s only a matter of time before it or something like it passes, the support is growing slowly but surely.

  105. paulie cannoli Post author

    the art gallery where you were , could you cross the street and walk around to peoples open air booths and such?

    I don’t remember that. It was a courtyard outside a gallery, not a very large area physically. You all were not there, but maybe you were at the same thing a different month.

  106. paulie cannoli Post author

    BTW, I remember those glossy “Vote for a Change” pamphlets that you all made up because I volunteered to hand them out while I was petitioning on that marijuana initiative and some guy in your group gave me a stack of like 200 of them (and I handed everyone of them out).

    I remember finding some in random places around town. They definitely got around.

  107. Thomas M. Sipos

    Libertarian Girl: “Once a spook always a spook , CIA people tell you that themselves”

    You’re denying a fundamental libertarian tenet — all people are individuals, CIA employees included.

    There are tens of thousands (at least) of current or former CIA employees walking around. You think your dictum — “Once a spook, always a spook.” — applies to all those individuals?

    That some CIA people say that, also means nothing.

    Do I speak for all Libertarians? If I said, “Once a Libertarian, always a Libertarian,” or “All Libertarians hate beer,” would that make it so?

    There are some excellent former CIA employees writing against our current war policies and imperialism for The American Conservative on the right, and Counterpunch on the left. Those writers certainly seem trustworthy to me.

  108. Andy

    “You have a false memory. I 100% guarantee it was not me.”

    I’m still pretty sure that it was you. How else would I have seen the signature? How else would you have known that he signed with the city hall address instead of his home address?

  109. Andy

    I even remember petitioners who were at that event. Besides you, me, and Mark, there were these two guys from California, Orange County I think, a white guy and a black guy, I can’t remember their names though. I ran into them one time in California before this. They mostly hung out around the front of the art gallery on that city sidewalk. I remember having talked to the black guy about 9/11 at the CCRM (Committee to Control and Regulate Marijuana) office and I gave him a 9/11 video, I think it had some Alex Jones stuff on it and perhaps some other stuff.

    So to test your memory, do you remember the two guy’s to whom I’m refering? And no, that one guy was NOT the guy from England.

  110. paulie cannoli Post author

    How else would you have known that he signed with the city hall address instead of his home address?

    Um, same way you did. I was at the turn-in and people were talking about it.

  111. Andy

    “Um, same way you did. I was at the turn-in and people were talking about it.”

    It was NOT at the turn in where I found out that the Mayor had signed the petition, it was at the event right after it happened.

  112. paulie cannoli Post author

    Yes, I saw a petitioner get the signature at the event (can’t remember which one, but it wasn’t me), and at the turn-in was where they said the address was city hall.

  113. Andy

    “paulie cannoli // Jan 12, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    Yes, I saw a petitioner get the signature at the event (can’t remember which one, but it wasn’t me), and at the turn-in was where they said the address was city hall.”

    I remember you telling me that the address that the Mayor signed with was City Hall when we were at the event.

  114. paulie cannoli Post author

    You remember wrong.

    I would not have had any way of knowing it was the wrong address at the event. The person that told us that was at the CRCM office, either that night or one of the following days, and it wasn’t my signature.

  115. George Phillies

    Trent Hill // Jan 10, 2009 at 2:51 pm answered Phillies

    “Right wing fiscal conspiracy nonsense disguising itself as libertarianism.”

    by saying:
    George Phillies believes inflation is JUST SUPER! I often wonder whatever happened to SHRINKING government,George? Advocating the Fed allows the State to simply print money for any project, including War or the administration of the Patriot Act.

    and Phillies answers:
    First, I can think of an extremely large list of Bush faults, but leaving us with inflation rather than runaway deflation is not one of them.

    The Federal Government does not run on the printing of money. It borrows money from private sources. There are rather more people who want to lend it money than usual, as witness current interest rates on Federal notes relative to interest rates on anything else.

    What happened to shrinking government? We elected real conservatives like George Bush, who follow the lead of real conservative leaders like Rush Limbaugh, Dick Cheney, Senator Imhofe, and the editorialists at Fox News, not old retired ‘conservative’ leaders like the late Barry Goldwater and the late William F Buckley, Jr.

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