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San Diego activist urges Greens to create ‘radical, populist movement’

San Diego Green Party activist Rocky Neptun has issued a 2,200-word “Open Challenge to San Diego Green Party Members“. He writes in part, “I challenge you to forget our nice yuppie environmentalist image, John Muir in Birkenstocks, put away those pretensious (sic) Phd. monikers and all that rhetorical chatter, and get down-right scrappy. We cannot control (or even influence) what the GPUS or the California State Greens do; but here in San Diego we could re-create our Party in a radical, populist movement that mirrors what is happening in Latin America. Greens, we cannot win. But as that great Chicago community organizer, Saul Alinsky, once said, ‘if there is no possibility of victory, then, just simply stink up the place.'”

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  1. Donald R. Lake Donald R. Lake September 3, 2009

    And you do not return emails, voice mails and reply to article submission[s]. Any thing can be difficult enough if you goof off enough. Widely known as big talk, and little else. [Hey it’s not just me ……….]

  2. Rocky Neptun Rocky Neptun August 31, 2009

    I don’t know who the heck Donald L. Lake is…but before he says he knows me personally, he ought to get his facts straight.
    I spent $10,000 of my own savings to keep the San Diego Street Light newspaper, for and about the homeless, afloat for three years. When I ran out of money; I turned the paper over to a socially conscious religious group, Jubilee Economic Ministries, who closed it down quickly because of the tremendous expense and the difficult effort of working with the homeless – often the paper was their only source of income.
    If you suggest I just “talk the talk” you obviously don’t know a thing about me. Read my articles at the Media Left website; I have a personal list-serv of over a thousand readers and am the volunteer director of the San Diego Renters Union.
    At my house in Tijuana, Mexico, which I share with my lover, a Mexican national and a factory worker in the maquiladores; we have union meetings, human rights gatherings and I teach street kids English.
    And, finally, if anyone want’s to read more than just this person’s gibberish gossip about me; please read my book, “San Diego: First City of Empire” that will be published this Spring.
    Thanks….In peace and Love, Rocky Neptun

  3. Dave Schwab Dave Schwab August 28, 2009

    Abraham Lincoln’s time was decades earlier, yet he was not driven by racist and imperialist ideas of the “white man’s burden”. Lincoln also led a third party out of the wilderness and into power, where they did great things for several years before forgetting what their purpose was.

  4. paulie paulie August 28, 2009

    To respond to the contention that TR would be considered a “progressive” or “left libertarian” today.

  5. Donald R. Lake Donald R. Lake August 27, 2009

    a person of his era;

    a man of his time.

    —- and your point is?

  6. paulie paulie August 27, 2009

    I don’t imagine most modern progressives would like TR’s views on foreign policy, among many things.

  7. Dave Schwab Dave Schwab August 27, 2009

    You think Teddy Roosevelt fits the modern definition of progressive?

    According to,

    He did not truly believe that blacks were the equals of whites, or that they could be integrated into the American social fabric. He generally accepted the prevailing idea that all nonwhites were less capable of self-rule and significant advancement in culture and science in comparison to whites. He agreed with and enthusiastically endorsed the notion that nonwhites entailed little more than a “burden” which the white races of the world must carry as part of their Christian duty. This sense of racial superiority tainted his attitudes toward blacks…

  8. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 27, 2009

    Don Grundmann, you mention abortion & homosexuality. GLBT. These CP party planks alienate most progressives & libertarians. This is why I excluded the CP from the Alliance. & you can be sure Obama is a liberal. Ted Kennedy would not have endorsed a progressive-too left- or a blue dog-too right. He must have put Obama under a microscope-for years.

  9. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 27, 2009

    Right, TR would not be considered a mere progressive now. He’d be considered a left libertarian. /// Paulie, come on. You post a lot. You comment a lot. You are THERE at IPR. You know everybody & they know you. You know it all or can find out quick. & you are more of an asset than a nuisance.

  10. paulie paulie August 27, 2009

    the word ” progressive ” is used by those who are ashamed/scared to say that they are liberal

    Actually, they are not liberal under a logical or historical examination of that term, but they are indeed much like the progressives of a century ago; I think it is a better term for them.

    Now that they no longer want liberal, maybe true liberals will start using that name again more.

  11. paulie paulie August 27, 2009

    IPR=The World According to Paulie.


  12. Donald R. Lake Donald R. Lake August 26, 2009

    The other Donald:

    [a] Liberal is all over the map. Classic Liberals are very connected to basic Libertarianism, usually casted in a conservative light [what ever that means …….]

    [b] 99.9999% purity, huh ????

    [c] TR, a man of his times, like 99.9999% of humanity ……..ya know, like killing animals as an ecological conservationist!

    [d] Progressives of any age, making today better than yesterday and hoping for a better tomorrow …….

  13. Don Grundmann Don Grundmann August 26, 2009

    ” they have even less in common with the progressives as epitomized by Teddy Roosevelt.”

    Response – Robert : Perhaps you can educate me if I am wrong regarding the proper nuances but my current observation is 1) that the word ” progressive ” is used by those who are ashamed/scared to say that they are liberal as a replacement word since it sounds better; 2) that such liberals with 99.9999% purity support abortion on demand for any reason and homosexuality as 2 basic points among other possibilities which bind them together in a common world view; 3) that under such a definition Teddy Roosevelt would most definately NOT be a ” progressive ” in the current sense but only in the past understanding of the word.

    Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  14. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 26, 2009

    IPR=The World According to Paulie. & Paulie isn’t perfect, that’s for sure. I’d rather have these trolls than the Steve Gordon, Barr/Root Ronulan Paulnut lovers at TPW.

  15. VAGreen VAGreen August 25, 2009

    “VA Green, what’s wrong?”

    The same trolls who turned Third Party Watch into what Paulie correctly called “Turd Potty Watch” are taking over here.

  16. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 25, 2009

    Don Grundmann, Granted. “The Constitution Party in no possible way will support, take part in, or endorse a violent take-over of government.” I said the CP is poised to benefit from such a rightist movement. But I’ve done the math. The CP cannot possibly win an American election. It just doesn’t have access to enough numbers. Forget an alliance between the progressives & CP because they are irreconsilable. Even if a failing GOP started populating the CP, it would split under the pressure. & a rightist movement failing electorially would eventually resort to violence despite the CP. & please do not lump together Stalin, Mao & Pol Pot with Hitler. By the way, whoever mentions Hitler or the Nazis first loses the debate! & they have even less in common with the progressives as epitomized by Teddy Roosevelt. Would you call Teddy a Red Fascist? This guy Gerald Celente has his points though. All this could lead to catastrophe in the USA. Like civil war complete with splits along political, racial & geographic lines. He said the USA could split apart. Abandonment by large portions of the U.S. military WITH equipment. Sort of like when attacked by the USA, many Iraqi pilots simply flew to Iran. Soon Iran had a viable air force. Pitched battles in Florida, Texas, Virginia & Missippi I think are possible. The fear monger Celente could have some points. I’m sure you don’t want this any more than I do.

  17. Catholic Trotskyist Catholic Trotskyist August 25, 2009

    VA Green, what’s wrong?

    Don Grundman, you can speak for your side of the Constitution Party, but what about the corrupt America’s Independent Party of Alan Keyes, which has usurped power over the California AIP?

  18. VAGreen VAGreen August 25, 2009

    I hoped that Independent Political Report could avoid turning into Third Party Watch. Oh, well. It was good while it lasted.

  19. Don Grundmann Don Grundmann August 25, 2009

    ” the difference between a progressive-revolutionary electorial (hence non-violent) movement which the libertarians join or a rightist counterrevolutionary violent movement ”

    Response – Robert : The Constitution Party in no possible way will support, take part in, or endorse a violent take-over of government. The entire concept is yet another smear against Constitutionalists when history reveals that ” progressive-revolutionary electorial (hence non-violent) movement(s)…( ” s ” added by me ) are/were anything but; reference here Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Hitler ( yes, he was a National SOCIALIST ). What is defined as a ” rightist counterrevolutionary movement ” is simply defending the Constitution. Of course the terms you have used sound so much better to non-inquiring minds.

    Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  20. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 25, 2009

    OK., I reviewed the youtube. When the babe/hostess mentioned states’ rights over federal government, new third party, takeover of government, she was describing a rightist Ronulan Paulnut type counterrevolutionary movement. The Constitution Party is poised to benefit from that as Paul’s endorsement of Baldwin over Barr indicated. Whether the trend researcher understands the difference between a progressive-revolutionary electorial (hence non-violent) movement which the libertarians join or a rightist counterrevolutionary violent movement which the libertarians join or at least passively go along with, I do not know. & don’t get me wrong. The leftists are fully capable of violent takeover of the government also. This is why the Progressive Libertarian Alliance Strategy must be tried & succeed asap. Because the alternatives are the status quo duopoly or left-right violence.

  21. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 25, 2009

    Humble Travis, thanks for the link. It looks like the Fox on Fox babe hostess was set up to ask certain questions, say certain things & get certain responses. Quite non-spontaneous. But the trend reporter -Gerald Celente-did say “Progressive libertarians”. Interesting.

  22. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 24, 2009

    Gene Trosper, is that a clever way to get IPR people who would probably not research Fox to listen to their news?

  23. Catholic Trotskyist Catholic Trotskyist August 24, 2009

    Robert, take some advice from the other avowed Democrat on this site. You could win with the Progressive alliance strategy, but the losertarians and losergreenians (like that word, losergreenians) will never accept you. The only truly viable way to win is to let the Christians and socialists into the alliance. If you can compromise on social issues, and compromise on your opinions on the failure of socialism, you could run for President as the Green and Libertarian candidate once they realize they could actually win with the bigger alliance, and I or a surrogate of the Catholic Trotskyist Party could pick up the nomination of the Constitution Party, the various socialist parties, and take away many Democrats and Republicans from their parties. Then we could merge our tickets and I or another Catholic Trotskyist could be your running mate. We would then have 70% of the population in our alliance, and Obama would drop out of the race to endorse you, letting us run against Sarah Palin. What do you think?

  24. Steven R Linnabary Steven R Linnabary August 24, 2009

    Yes, I’m a Democrat. I’ve always been a Democrat.

    The first step to recovery is recognizing that you have a problem.



  25. mdh mdh August 24, 2009

    “That is only a little less worse than a republican. & that is the lowest of God’s forsaken creatures, like the Serpent or maggot covered Mephistophles.”

    Someone call a first grade English tutor.

  26. Gene Trosper Gene Trosper August 24, 2009

    Gerald celente was on Fox News a week or two ago and he is forcasting that a new third party movement is going to arise which they are tentatively calling “progressive libertarian”. The video is on YouTube, so if anyone wants to see it, just do a search there.

  27. Donald R. Lake Donald R. Lake August 24, 2009

    INDEPENDENT Political Report
    INDEPENDENT Political Report
    quit treating a broad spectrum site
    like a narrow partisan blog!
    Quit it!

  28. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 24, 2009

    That is the Olympia Hemp, Love & freedom festival not the Seattle Hempfest.

  29. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 24, 2009

    Kimberly, it has been reported here that the LP had a booth at the Washington State Hempfest & the GP did not. Do you know anything about that?

  30. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 24, 2009

    DRL, I do not believe I coined the word “losertarian”. Therefore I was not the first to use it. IPR comments section is frequented by libertarians, probably mostly. Libertarians lose a LOT of elections. Therefore by the transitive property of reality, IPR comments=losertarianland. I do not see how that is a “lie”. At worst it is my opinion and incorrect, not a lie. Yes, I “…fear/hate the Establishment duopoly…”, “the “enemy”. Don’t you think they noticed the libs & greens lose a lot of elections? It sure isn’t a secret. I haven’t redefined IPR’s mission. They keep right on doing the fine job they have been doing since before they were even IPR(TPW). My ramblings do not seem to have any significant effects. (There has already been at least one motion to censor me & it floated like a lead balloon. ) If they do, I will certainly take that under advisement.

  31. Donald R. Lake Donald R. Lake August 24, 2009

    Jeremey Young: What is the harm of Bob’s inaccurate ramblings? Well, for one, his is an out and out liar. Quote:

    “IPR comments=losertarianland. ”

    Bad, Bob, bad, bad!
    INDEPENDENT Political Report equals INDEPENDENT Political Report!

    Who gave you permission to redefine the mission of this site. Don’t you fear/ hate the Establishment Duopoly and it is doing to the nation of my birth ?????

    Your misdirection only serves to help the enemy. Plz knock it off! This is Independent Political Report not any type of Losertarian site in any shape or form. You are giving out misinformation. Knock it off! Right now.

    [Got it, clue less Jeremy Young ?????]

  32. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 24, 2009

    Michael, just Joshing you. Did you have any comments about the Steve Kubby Cannabis Science recent IPR post?

  33. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 24, 2009

    “Our country would be far better off with a few dozen Libertarians and greens in Congress.”. Well you can’t be my campaign manager. I intend to sweep just about all the dems & reps out by 2013 on the coattails. I can’t be having you holding me back.

  34. Michael H. Wilson Michael H. Wilson August 24, 2009

    Robert I walked the entire field and did not see one.

    I am a bit amazed at the number of things that industrial hemp can be used for, nutritional products, oil, building materials, paper, etc.

    I have followed the medical issue for some years and what we hear is only part of the story cannabis may have a number of properties that we have not even begun to investigate for medical uses.

    Fortunately this is all well documented. Someone just has to get the word out.

  35. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 24, 2009

    Yes, a lot of prisoners are there because of drug laws, & not just marijuana. Are you sure the GP didn’t have a booth, way on the other side of the grounds from the LP booth?

  36. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 24, 2009

    Skyler, you are right. I did assume you as an avowed democrat were against third parties. You see, you pulled open my shower curtain & announced you are a democrat. Naturally I assumed the worst.

  37. Michael H. Wilson Michael H. Wilson August 24, 2009

    Forgot one part of your question. Yes the LP had a booth. We were the only politcal party represented.

  38. Michael H. Wilson Michael H. Wilson August 24, 2009

    re # 24 Robert my interest is the prison population of the U.S. and the problems related to the judicial system that have arisen because of these assinine laws.

  39. Skyler McKinley Skyler McKinley August 23, 2009

    Jeremy, good point.

    Robert? Yes, I’m a Democrat. I’ve always been a Democrat. But that doesn’t mean I’m not supportive of third parties. Our country would be far better off with a few dozen Libertarians and Greens in Congress. I do identify as a Democrat, but you shouldn’t make the mistake of assuming all Democrats are anti-third party. I support an expansion of the discussion.

  40. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 23, 2009

    OMG!!! Remember the scene in Lost in Space where Dr. Smith removes his cloak & is actually a space spider monster mutant? OMG! Now here Skyler has decloaked-a democrat! UGHHHhhhh! Well, you have a lot of balls showing up here at IPR comments, Skyler, I’ll grant you that! & who is calling who a nobody, a nothing? You are a godforsaken democrat, man! That is only a little less worse than a republican. & that is the lowest of God’s forsaken creatures, like the Serpent or maggot covered Mephistophles.

  41. Jeremy Young Jeremy Young August 23, 2009

    I am going to stick up for Milnes here. I’m not going to argue that he’s the world’s greatest guy, but I am a firm believer in the idea of not kicking somebody when he is down. I don’t see how it does anybody any harm to let him post his ramblings on this site. I would suggest resisting the urge to screw with him, and just leaving him alone unless you’ve got something nice to say.

  42. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 23, 2009

    Michael H. Wilson, I’ve never been to a Hempfest. looks like fun. Now what did you say about no greens, only libs? You mean the LP had a booth & the GP didn’t? I notice Kubby isn’t listed on the website. What if I may ask is your interest, medical?

  43. Donald R. Lake Donald R. Lake August 23, 2009

    I have been visiting an unenthusiastic FBI about ‘the worst Congress Member in federal history’ since the mid 1990s! I can not prove it, but I am certain that MY FBI file is bigger [as the informant] that federal felon Randy ‘Puke’ Cunningham’s. And the feds did not get serious about this crook until the badgered pentagon types got sick and tired of him and jumped in!

  44. Skyler McKinley Skyler McKinley August 23, 2009


    I’m not a Third Party manager. I’m a Democrat. I’ve always been a Democrat. I worked with Senator Gravel when he became a Libertarian, and then went back to the party I have loved and grown up with. And yes, I have won many many campaigns. And you know what? My Democrats win elections in part because of the (D) after their name, as well as the fact that they are all legitimate candidates.

    The FBI went out of their way to screw with you? I doubt it. You’re nobody. A nothing. You are politically and socially irrelevant.

  45. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 23, 2009

    Skyler, have you “won” any of the campaigns you have managed? No matter because I already have conceded that third party/independent managers’ abilities cannot be determined by that since all (upper level) will lose.
    I beg you pardon. Have you ever managed an all anarchist fusion ticket? I don’t think so. Then how do you know what will happen? It is unprecedented to the best of my knowledge. IF Gravel had won the LP nomination & Ruwart the vp, that could’ve been spun as one even though you & they didn’t realize it. Someone like me would have had to point it out to you AND you understand. You probably wouldn’t have even listened-THEN. But you will now I bet. IF Teddy Roosevelt had chosen a progressive democrat for vp in 1912, he would have had a fusion ticket & may very well have won. Actually for a real interesting ticket my past is an asset. I can prove the FBI went out of their way to screw with ME, not you probably, Skyler. Know why? Because I am a genuine threat to the status quo & they know it. You are not. So you continue to patronize me. Suit yourself. Another lost opportunity in the making I see.

  46. Skyler McKinley Skyler McKinley August 23, 2009


    Have you any won any sort of election in your life? I’ve managed campaigns ranging from the State House to Mayor to County Commissioner and President. Certainly party-line plays a role. But so too does experience. You simply will not win by merely being a candidate, fusion or no fusion. You need to have experience governing under your belt. It’s ridiculous for you to lampoon the Libertarian party (of which I am NOT a member) for being the party of losers when you yourself would not conceivably win the Presidency. It doesn’t matter what your party-line was. If you ran as a Democrat, you’d be ignored. You simply don’t have the experience, and therefore, you’re lacking the credibility.

    And of course, “you” is more of a general term in the above statement. To address you specifically, Robert, you wouldn’t win because of your criminal and psychological history. I’m sorry, but that’s a fact of life. I’m not passing any sort of judgment upon you, I am just saying point-blank, your actions in the past and your anti-social tendencies will prevent you from ever being President, Robert Milnes.

  47. Donald R. Lake Donald R. Lake August 23, 2009

    [a] Firstly, the damage is done. The Earth is actually in a mini ice age, but the century old run away green house affect is sooooooo consuming that it over rides the cooling spell! [Remember those record low temps in the 1970s and 1980s ????] Ya can not undo an avalanche! If human interaction was brought to zero RIGHT NOW it would take centuries to stabilize!

    [b] Nuclear waste can be dealt with on near shore subduction zones. The sea floor folds under the continental shelf. The toxic items are buried for X thousands/ millions of years.

    [b plus] If you don’t like deep sea subduction zones you look for potential drill holes in rift valleys like the Dead Sea or northern Baja California [just south of Calexico]! —– Great also for used lead batteries [AAA, AA, A, C, D, and nine volt] and cores of car batteries.

    [c] Plz correct me, but have the #&@%$&# French had zero problems with reactors ????

  48. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 23, 2009

    When you figure out what to do with nuclear waste & can guarantee no more Chernobyls or worse, let us know.

  49. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 23, 2009

    P.S. That would be dead polar bears floating down the streets.

  50. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 23, 2009

    Don Grundmann, would you describe that tirade as reactionary or counterrevolutionary? Come on, you can hardly say the greens are in league with plantation master types. Mostly because so many American greens are non-white & it is an internationalist party. & I don’t think the GP advocates environmental action or animal rights action. They, as do I, sympathize though. I do not think the GP is Luddite. & true, socialism has failed. But the reasons for that are too complex to debate-you-here. Suffice to say that I advocate green compromise with libertarians on the issue of socialism. We can modify capitalism, try true free markets, possible progressive economics etc. Greens do not want world poverty. Try some credible attacks on greens. There is plenty there. Instead of not credible attacks & hysterics, ok?

  51. Don Grundmann Don Grundmann August 23, 2009

    I agree that the Greens should ” get scrappy.” Go out and ” stink up the place!” But wait – you already do. Just ask the 1,000 + workers who lost their jobs at the northern California Chevron factory because of yet another insane environmental attack. The citizens are just starting to understand what jobs killers the Greens and their friends not only are now but how much more they intend to be in the future though nitwit ideas like stopping so-called ” Global Warming ” which is ” proven ” by the environmentalists own ” science ” by Homer Simpson. Ignore the sun!! The sky is falling!!!! The poles are melting!!! Sea levels are rising!!! How much? 5 centimeters? 5 inches? 5 feet? 55 feet? 500 feet? 5,000 feet? Who cares? The induced panic is the most important thing to cultivate so that you can get people to vote to kill their own jobs and bring themselves and all future generations into the poverty which the Greens and their friends intend for them. Polar bears will be floating down the streets!! There will be famine, floods, pestilance!!!! Doom, doom, doom, and doom!!!! In 100 years!! Of course we can predict EXACTLY what will happen in 100 years via the typical global warming words such as could be, possibly, may happen, has a tendancy toward, yada, yada, yada in addition to just plain lying, and doing so beyond countless times, regarding the science involved. So shut down all industry NOW to ” save the earth!” Yes, go out and show just what fools and nitwits you are. People need to be exposed to the anti-humanity and anti-people guaranteed poverty producing programs of the Greens and their friends as coordinated by their Plantation Master controllers who provide the money for their attack against the working people of our nation and the world. For the Greens and friends there is not enough poverty in the world so we obviously need more by, as only one example of Green nitwitery, stopping all energy production such as via the clean ” green ” power of nuclear. Of course it all boils down to the fundamental driving force of the founders and controllers of the Green/radical environmentalist movement – the eugenics/Social Darwinist view that there are ” too many people ” in the world ( English translation – too many NON WHITE people – see ). Thus we get the ” Green ” party as the political shock troops of the Plantation Masters who fund their leemings so that they fulfill their vision of killing as many of their non-white enemies as possible. YES!! Get out and show your true colors!! It can’t happen soon enough. The Constitution Party will be there to welcome the citizens who wake up and want prosperity instead of poverty, real instead of fake science, jobs and freedom instead of government soup lines and tyranny, the reconstruction of families and the recognition of the value of children of all races, and a better future for their children and humanity as a whole.

    Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  52. Bruce Lee Bruce Lee August 23, 2009

    “If you compromise between socialism and libertarianism, you get… current “mainstream” politics. So if someone wanted to do that, they could just join the Dems or the GOP.”

    No, not really.

    The statement above is based on the notion that when it comes to economics, Greens are far left and Libertarians are far right. In reality, it’s more complicated than that.

    Both Greens and Libertarians tend to oppose corporate welfare, and some (but not all) Libertarians join Greens in opposing corporate personhood and noncontractual limited liability.
    There are other areas of potential or existing agreement on economic issues between Greens and Libertarians that stand in contrast to the major party working concensus.

  53. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 23, 2009

    Automobiles. Unsafe at any Speed. There has been a lot of car carnage over the years. I have come to hate cars. & ON TOP of that the whole oil polutes the planet, subsidized dictators & terrorists thing. I have a solution which I have written about here at IPR. The only feedback I recall was a negative comment by Rachel Hawkridge LNC. It is to make VTOL vehicles & hydrogen fuel. Simply a smaller somewhat modified version of the Harrier jet. Further, HO– USES could be made from a larger somewhat modified version. What we call infrastructure, roads, bridges, sidewalks etc. would no longer be necessary. The air itself would become infrastructure. & doesn’t need construction or maintenance. Houses could be easily portable (floods). & pilotless ones could be used for shipping/receiving etc. shuttlecraft. Could you imagine a few hundred VTOL shuttlecraft dumping water on a CA wildfire? Put it out in a few minutes. Anyway I called for an investment group to be formed. All I asked for was an advisory position in any company formed. I heard just about NOTHING!

  54. mdh mdh August 23, 2009

    government works hard to make transportation extremely expensive. Whether it’s regulations on the auto industry driving up car prices, supporting usurious and unsafe lending practices on the part of the banks, subsidizing the insurance industry by forcing everyone to take on insurance, inflating the dollar so that gas prices skyrocket, or whatever else, something really need to change.

  55. mdh mdh August 23, 2009

    Kimberly, you have left and right backwards in your EPA example. The left solution would be to eliminate government, while the right solution would be to strengthen government.

  56. Michael H. Wilson Michael H. Wilson August 23, 2009

    Good points all. I spent yesterday and will spend to day at Hempfest in Olympia, WA. Lots of Birks and tye dye there. No Green Party. Just us Libs. When the issue of Global Warming comes up I point out that one simple solution is to open the transit market to other options such as jitneys and ride sharing cabs. One study I came across on this issue suggest that doing so can reduce CO2 emmission from vehicles by as much as 50% and maybe 70%. I think the numbers are too high, but that a 30% reduction is more reasonable.

    Better urban transit also means more opportunities for low income people, better access to jobs, healthcare services, etc.

    I think it is a winning solution all around,but getting the word out is some what difficult.

  57. Donald R. Lake Donald R. Lake August 23, 2009

    Gee Rocky, does this mean, after knowing you for over a decade, that you, you personally, are going to start returning phone calls and email.

    For those merely reading the Public Relations piece, Mister Neptun is the original ‘Talks the talk, not walks the walk ……..’

    Ask him about the Street News monthly print organ spotlighting homelessness. He ran that sucker into the ground, inspite of the mighty efforts others to keep it afloat. And the GP HQ near San Diego State University, empty with the lights on and the phone mate light blinking.

    Talk, talk, talk, big deal!

  58. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 23, 2009

    Kimberly, an interesting recent development is some religious groups-usually considered rightist-taking up pro-environmental/global warming policies usually considered leftist.

  59. Kimberly Wilder Kimberly Wilder August 23, 2009

    About Rocky’s piece:

    Interesting points.

    But, I find it annoying and demoralizing to tell greens they must lose their Birkenstock image. The fact is that part of the thing that holds a political group together is its culture.

    I am thinking of how Georgiana the Duchess of Devonshire dressed in the color of the Whigs, and wore “fox” for her Foxite faction.

    When greens see people who look like hippies, or leftist professors, they feel a sense of connection and they can find each other in a crowd. This has been especially fun when we had conventions in more fancy hotels, but could pick each other out of a crowd.

    There are so many other things to strengthen. Why tell other people how to dress and how to act?

    Also, some of the uniform is a real teaching tool.

    Men are allowed to wear colors and tie-die: gender tolerance

    Women do not wear make-up: freeing oneself from oppressive beauty expectations. not using make-up that has chemicals or inspires cruelty to lab animals

    Not wearing a suit: trying to have the leaders be equal to the voters and the speaker equal to the audience.

    It is foolish to cast aside these deep layers of communication and culture.

  60. Kimberly Wilder Kimberly Wilder August 23, 2009


    An example comes to mind:


    The EPA under Christie Todd Whitman, telling people it was safe to go back to NYC after 9-11, when it was later learned the air was toxic.

    Some left and right solutions:

    Extreme Right: Do not have an EPA. People use their own common sense.

    Grassroots (so is this moderate left/right): Call for the head of the EPA to be elected by the people instead of appointed, so they are more accountable. Give people the power to vote on referendums regarding the EPA

    Left: Strengthen the power of the EPA. Spend more money on scientists and enforcement. Try to do it in a way that brings out the best part of an accountable government.

    Somewhere in there are solutions Green Party members and Libertarians could agree on.

    But, someone had to do something differently than announce to everyone it was safe to go in, and let rescue workers go in without masks because they had a false sense of safety.

  61. Kimberly Wilder Kimberly Wilder August 23, 2009

    The alliance between Green Party and Libertarian does not have to be the alliance between socialism/statism and liberty.

    The whole Green Party is not socialist. And, some people rail and chaffe against the absolute leftists.

    There is common ground, especially among certain Green Party factions vs. Libertarian factions.

    For instance, if the issue is Global Warming…

    People in the Green Party are definitely going to want to address that situation. But, some of them would agree you could do it by limiting corporate influence inside government, rather than by regulation. It is not that the government needs to fix global warming, it is that they have to stop supporting it.

    I fear that many Libertarians want to ignore “global warming” because they assume that environmentalists will only have statist solutions.

    But, if Libertarians could take the fact of global warming, and then brain-storm non-statist solutions, it would probably help more than just avoidance.

    I can think of a lot of Green Party members who dislike socialism because it is statist. Others who don’t like the “style” of the old left. They could be reached out to – even for dialogue and better collaboration, if not for electoral alliances.

    One Green Party slogan was, “Neither left, nor right, but forward.”

    Some people truly feel that.

    But, there are some old school leftists, many very self-righteous and patriarchal, who do hold power and sway inside the party.

  62. Robert Milnes Robert Milnes August 23, 2009

    Agreed, good piece. Thank you Peter Orvetti, for bringing it here to Losertarian Land. I could easily see a Libertarian low level elected party activist writing a very similar piece. He laments “We cannot win”(upper level ballots). Actually, to steal a phrase, YES WE CAN. All you have to do is vote coordinate with the Libertarians, Green. You lament the GP is not good at getting on ballots. The libs ARE! You lament the GP is unable to lower the number (@700) U.S. overseas military bases. That is one of the most repeated laments here at IPR comments=losertarianland. Their main problem with greens is their support for socialism. Compromise socialism & libs will listen to the possibility of vote coordination. Both parties should send representatives to discuss this. Like yesterday.

  63. WalterGPW WalterGPW August 23, 2009

    Good piece. I agree with Rocky, we are a POLITICAL PARTY and need to run candidates and not merely be an activist organization. We can do BOTH the issues activist stuff AND run candidates at the same time.

    Although I disagree with him when he says that we can’t win. At least at the local level we CAN we. And at the federal level it’s going to take a lot more work that’s for sure, but we can’t give up hope as Greens.

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