Chuck Baldwin is Moving to Montana!

Wow! This is news to me:

Last Sunday, August 29, 2010, was the hardest day of my life. Even when my father made me promise that I would preach his funeral (which I did–twice: once in Indiana where he lived, and again in Florida where I live and where he is buried), that was not as difficult and gut wrenching as what I had to do last Sunday. Last Sunday, I retired as the pastor of the church that my wife and I founded 35 years ago: the Crossroad Baptist Church of Pensacola, Florida.

Think of it: all of my adult life (after college) has been spent pastoring this wonderful congregation. And the people that I spoke to this past Sunday evening are, without a doubt, the finest group of people I have ever known. They are my friends. Many of them I had led to Christ, or were saved under my preaching. Some have stood with me for twenty years; some for over thirty years. My vocabulary is too limited to express the love and appreciation I have for these wonderful people! They stood by me through thick and thin. Even when God opened the door for me to run for President of the United States on the Constitution Party ticket, they stood by me. They stood by me when enemies attacked me; they stood by me when friends forsook me.

And last Sunday evening, I had to tell them that, after 35 years as their shepherd, God had led me to leave them. I can tell you, tears flowed like rivers; and I believe my family and I cried more than anyone.

When I was 18 years old, I told the Lord that I would do anything He wanted me to do; I would be anything He wanted me to be; and I would go anywhere He wanted me to go. And I mean that today as much as I did then. Therefore, the only thing that could move me from the pulpit of Crossroad Church was a clear and definite call and leading from God. 35 years ago, that call led my wife and me to Pensacola, Florida. Today that call has led us to the Flathead Valley of Montana, some 2,500 miles away.

Therefore, within the next few weeks, my entire family will be moving to the Kalispell area of the great State of Montana. By my family, I mean my wife and I, my daughter and her husband and their 3 children, my oldest son and his wife and their 3 boys, my youngest son and his wife and their one child, and my wife’s mother and her husband. That’s 5 families and 17 people. Yes, my grown children and their spouses have felt the same calling. We are not only a family; we are a team. And we are headed to Montana.

God has led us to the conviction that Montana (along with other Mountain states) is going to be the tip of the spear in the freedom fight; and we believe God wants us to be part of that fight. We plan to start a new ministry where I can preach and my family can sing and minister (you should hear them sing!). Once we get established and can raise the funds, I definitely plan to livestream my messages on the Internet as we have been doing at Crossroad for the past year and a half. And if God opens the door, I will not rule out a run for State office. Yes, the freedom message is both spiritual and political; and I am afraid of neither!

For years, people have been asking me, “Chuck, what can we do?” Well, this is what God has led my family and me to do. We are convinced that the only way freedom has a chance to survive in these States united is to recapture the spirit of liberty–one State at a time. (To continue to focus on Washington, D.C., is a waste of time and energy!) And God has led us to the conclusion that Montana (and nearby states) is the place where freedom-minded patriots have a fighting chance to prevail. Instead of telling you what to do, my family and I are showing you what we believe we should do.

Is this move going to be easy? Are you kidding? We all know what the housing market is like. We are experiencing the effects of this depressed economy just like everyone else. Like everyone else, we all have homes to sell or rent, and my two sons and son-in-law have businesses to either sell or relocate. Without a doubt, this will be the hardest move of our entire lives. We are leaving dear friends behind; my children and their children are leaving their hometown and school chums; we are trading a warm weather climate for a cold one; and we are leaving the church that we have loved and served for over three decades. In many ways, we feel like modern-day Pilgrims, looking for a land of liberty.

Over the past two years, I have traveled more than 60,000 miles from coast to coast and border to border. I have met and talked with Americans from sea to shining sea. I have seen the states where real freedom is virtually nonexistent. And I have seen the states where the love of liberty still burns bright. And I (and my family) believe that there are more freedom-minded people (per capita and per square mile) in Montana than, perhaps, in any other State in the union.

So, after much prayer (and I mean much!), we believe God is calling us to partner with those freedom-minded souls in The Treasure State. Back in the 1880s, Montana experienced a gold rush. I believe that in the 2010s, Montana is going to experience a FREEDOM RUSH. And for us, the rush is on!

So, this Sunday, September 5, 2010, I will preach my last two messages at Crossroad Baptist Church. Already, my dear friend and ardent patriot, Wallace Nichols, of Birmingham, Alabama, has accepted the call to be Crossroad’s new pastor. And I know that this dear congregation is under very capable leadership. In fact, I fully expect the church to grow substantially under his ministry. And when that happens, no one will rejoice more than my family and I.

Yes, I will continue to write this column; but while we are in the process of moving (maybe 6 weeks or more), they will not be written quite as often. I will attempt (with the help of a small but dedicated staff) to produce at least one column a week (instead of two). Yes, my web site, will be maintained. And, yes, people will still be able to support us via the website during this transition.

My website is located here.

To donate via online contributions, click here.

Yes, last Sunday was the hardest day of my life, but there will be many hard and difficult days ahead for the Baldwin family. Each of us is aware of that. We are not naïve. We know we are headed for a fight; we know it won’t be easy. But we also know that freedom is worth fighting for, and if Washington, D.C., is freedom’s greatest threat (and it is), then defiant, liberty-loving states are freedom’s greatest allies. I’ve been preaching that for several years now. I guess it’s time that I started practicing it. Therefore, Montana, here we come!

*If you appreciate this column and want to help me distribute these editorial opinions to an ever-growing audience, donations may now be made by credit card, check, or Money Order. Use this link.

170 thoughts on “Chuck Baldwin is Moving to Montana!

  1. Erik G.

    Interesting… perhaps Chuck is hoping Montana can be for paleoconservatives what New Hampshire and the Free State Project is for libertarians?

  2. Nate

    The man is scary. And I hope his god doesn’t tell him to murder me in my sleep because I wrote that…

  3. Jim - Occupied USSA

    Montana’s relative freedom won’t last long until they actually sever all financial ties to Washington. That means keeping the income taxes in the state and refusing anything coming from Washington. It means throwing out U.S. military bases and installations. That will involve lots of legal coercion and, if that fails, phycially cutting off their water, electricity, land line communications. The state may be forced to treat the Feds as a hostile foreign power and will have to level with the state’s citizens about what a civil war will require of them. Every sheriff will have to be on board and Montana will have to order any of its national guard home from overseas while declaring any Federal authority over them to be unconstitutional.
    We can’t run anymore. As Winston Churchill pointed out, we may have to fight when there is no hope of victory because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

  4. Hugh Jass

    I’m confused. So God supposedly talked to him and told him to move to Montana? Is he a latter-day Abraham?

  5. Red Phillips

    I wish Pastor Baldwin luck, but I’m not sure how I feel about this. Like I’m not sure how I feel about the Free State Project or Christian Exodus. To move somewhere because there is more “freedom” there strikes me as overly ideological. One essential insight of paleoism is the value of family and community above mere abstractions. This seems like downplaying the former to seek after the later. You can’t just plunk unconnected people who are united only by an idea down anywhere and expect a coherent community to arise. Community is organic. Plus, Montana may be more “free,” but is it more Christian? The Panhandle of Florida retains much of its Southern and Bible Belt character, unlike anything below Tampa/Orlando.

  6. Trent Hill

    More importantly, Baldwin is giving up his congregation and his radio show–his two most effective means of communicating his religious and political ideas. Seems like an odd choice. However, I will say this, he’ll likely run for state house and he’ll likely win.

  7. shelly

    maybe chuck baldwin will try to have montana and utah unite and separate from the USA to create their “own” world…and theocracy. Yes, And then Baldwin will find these gold tablets with writing on them, he will decipher them to say YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE…..he will be able to raise lots of $moola and maybe build a throne…with emeralds and diamonds….But wait, The discovery channel will take a good look at these “golden tablets” and realize that they writings were actually graffiti, written by the mexican cartels that really says “death to huerto’s” ahhhh just another day on fantasy island……:0

  8. RedPhillips Post author

    I knew this post would bring out the anti-religion haters. Baldwin is a Baptist. Utah is mostly Mormon. I hardly think that they would be able to come together and form a “theocracy.”

    But as I said above, I do think Pastor Baldwin may find the atmosphere in Montana less hospitable to his brand of Baptistism than is the Panhandle (affectionately referred to as Lower Alabama). I hope he knows what he is doing.

  9. NewFederalist

    “I hope he knows what he is doing.”

    Well, it appears it was God’s inspiration that made him do this if I read the article correctly. I am still confused if this move is to begin a new ministry or perhaps some other form of evangelism.

  10. Erik G.

    I’m assuming Shelly @12 either assumes Idaho and/or Wyoming would also be a part of this ‘world,’ or she severely sucks at geography.

  11. Cody Quirk

    I’m suspecting Shelly and Nate are Seidenberg in disguise.

    But I hope Chuck has his move all planned out; he better not be moving to Montana without securing a job and a place; the career field in Montana is very limited, unless you want to count ranching.

  12. Magnolia

    I have read News with Views, for several years now. Chuck Baldwin is a regular columnist on this mostly Conservative website and I have enjoyed reading his columns. Mr. Baldwin has constantly talked about the corruption in government, immoral politicians and greedy corporations. He is constantly exposing the “New World Order” and the negative impact of Globalism. Because his articles tend to border on what could be deemed as patriotic resistance and even conspiracy theory, I have been surprised about the following information.

    After the Gulf oil spill disaster, I found it very, very strange that he never uttered one word about the disaster, the danger of the toxic dispersant Corexit 9500, the mismanagement of the disaster by BP and the government and the eleven workers who died on the oil rig. He never uttered one word on News with Views about the danger to the fishermen and the people of the Gulf Coast. Nothing. Nada. He hasn’t even brought up the suspicious death of Matt Simmons and the ridiculous photo-op of the Obamas. It’s as though the oil disaster never happened. Did someone pay him to be quiet?

    It is a known fact in the Gulf that this oil disaster is not over and that almost 80% of the oil is still in the water. The oil, mixed with the Corexit dispersant, leaves the Gulf residents in danger due to the toxins in the atmosphere and the environment.

    Mr. Baldwin may have been planning a move, but I don’t believe that he is being honest with the general public about his move. I think he knows that the Gulf is not a safe place to live due to the environmental impact of the oil disaster. Therefore, he is “getting out of Dodge” as quickly as possible. If he knows that his area is in danger, he has lost his credibility by glossing over this as though this is just a “new calling” to “join a patriotic movement”. He is not being honest with the folks who read his column.

    If he is such a patriot and he is concerned for people, why not be honest on the way out the door? Think about it, don’t you find it strange that someone would constantly expose the corruption, lies and deception of the government and then ignore a major government cover-up in his own backyard?

  13. Michael H. Wilson

    Panhandle of Florida to Montana. That’s a big change weatherwise. Good luck in the winter. Buy snow shovels early in the season.

  14. Mike

    Not only is he moving to Montana and leaving the church he founded, he’s taking a huge retirement with him. Where’s the dirt – follow the money!

  15. Cody Quirk

    If he is such a patriot and he is concerned for people, why not be honest on the way out the door? Think about it, don’t you find it strange that someone would constantly expose the corruption, lies and deception of the government and then ignore a major government cover-up in his own backyard?

    = Because you’re an idiot that jumps to conclusions, that’s way.

  16. Cody Quirk

    Not only is he moving to Montana and leaving the church he founded, he’s taking a huge retirement with him. Where’s the dirt – follow the money!

    = Ministers & Pastors get paid, right?
    Which makes your comments really simpleton and petty.

  17. Mike

    No, when you give someone your word to serve and be the pastor of a church – you don’t just up and leave suddenly because your church is basically going bankrupt because he had no clue how to run a church financially!

  18. doug lewis

    I feel sorry for all the grandparent who will not see much of their grandchildren when they’re 2400 miles away. According to inside sources the Baldwin’s don’t want their grand kids visiting in-laws. He didn’t even inform anyone except the immediate family before the announcement in the Sunday PM church service. He also gave all the staff 30 days job termination notice at the same time. It’s all about him!

  19. Fred temple

    Known fact! Not a drilling oil rig – just a transfer station. 2400 barrels a day. NO SPILL. Your welcome!

  20. Dave hendricks

    I believe that in the 2010s, Montana is going to experience a FREEDOM RUSH.

    More like a Bullshit rush!

  21. Red Phillips

    In another thread I said I don’t support sore loser laws, but I would make an exception if there was a sore loser law that would shut Mark up. He still can’t get over the crushing repudiation of his boy Keyes.

  22. paulie

    Doug, or should I say Mark?

    Where’s your evidence? Because you make as much sense as Lake here.

    Speaking of evidence, what is the evidence that it is Mark? He denies it, it does not match his IP or writing style, and I have seen zero proof.

  23. Catholic Trotskyist

    Cody, I sure hope you aren’t able to persuade the powers in charge to change the way we post on IPR. This has become such a great community, even if a bit disfunctional.

  24. Timothy Yung

    I am not sure this is a good idea. But hey if it works it would be great. If he runs for office I am not sure which ballot line he will use. Constitution Party of Montana disconnected itself from the National Constitution Party.

  25. Doug lewis

    You guys just refuse to believe the truth, I have proof, years of first hand knowledge of what happens when a pastor gets filled with pride and self will. I was there. I believe Chuck Baldwin has a long hard road ahead him. And for what? Not to glorify God but to promote his narrow-minded agenda! God has a way of judging rebellion, and I can already see it happening in his ministry and the way he treats his friends.

  26. Leon Kennedy

    Listen. Chuck Baldwin is a patriot and I believe with all my heart his leaving is the hardest choice he has ever had to make. He is going to Montana because Florida, along with most other sites is filled with morinic kool-aid drinkers.

  27. Leon Kennedy

    I wonder how many of the people slandering the man here are from his church. You must be a grave soul to attack him here on the Internet all the while you smile at him and shake his hand in Pensacola.

  28. Doug Lewis

    morinic kool-aid drinkers

    Why do you people resort to name calling when the facts are apparent – is it part of your movement too? And, Chuck Baldwin has NO CHURCH to call his. He left the primary calling God gave to him to be a freedom fighter for the US. I don’t smile and shake his hand, wrong assumption again, I think he’s a shyster!

  29. Leon Kennedy

    I find that hard to believe. How would you know how he treats his friends unless you know him personally? Did the two of you call each other “friend”? The fact is after all the years he put into the church he founded the man is allowed to retire. If you worked over thirty years in one place would you be entitled to a retirement? If so it is not a crime or a scandle to take one, right? So why would it be different for him? I think you are the shyster and have an over inflated ego. And thinking about it odds are you never did shake his hand. I bet you hugged the man while holding a knife to his back.

  30. Terry H

    I’m curious how many will shake their heads in disbelief and remorse – or, high-tail it with the good pastor to where God directs him?

    A message is a message…

  31. Bob

    It all sounds very patriotic but IMO he’s getting his family away from the toxic gulf and ruined beaches. Thats what I would do if I lived there with the financial means to leave.

  32. Magnolia

    For all of the folks who are proficient in name-calling and who have called me an idiot, you are part of the problem in this country. THE REASON? Because you never question anything, not even Baptist ministers. I am simply questioning his lack of discussion regarding this oil disaster.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I am the wife of a Southern Baptist minister who has a Doctorate of Ministry from Southwestern Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas. He is also an author who has written for national publications. I am a writer and webmaster who has had articles published on Steve Quayle and Stan So, next time you decide to call someone an idiot, make sure they’re an idiot.

    First of all, Chuck Baldwin sometimes calls himself Dr. Chuck Baldwin. When you get a doctorate degree from an unaccredited institution, you don’t have the right to call yourself Dr. I have nothing against Mr. Baldwin, but let’s be honest about our titles and education. I looked over that fact and still enjoyed reading his articles because he was correctly stating many of our country’s problems and he is a good writer.

    On second note, if part of Mr. Baldwin’s writing includes constant exposure of the government and corporations, scandalous politicians and totalitarian legislation, then how can you ignore one of the BIGGEST government cover-ups in your own backyard……Pensacola, Florida is where???? ……..on the Gulf Coast.

    The Gulf Coast is in danger, and you would have to be living in a cave not to see this. The environmental impact will be seen for decades. Remember the Exxon-Valdez disaster?? I am just shocked, surprised and confused as to why he does not mention a disaster like this that is in his own back yard. It honestly doesn’t make sense, unless he has been threatened. If he was threatened by the government, then there may be a valid reason. We can’t forget what happened to Matt Simmons.

    I was simply raising a question and noting the strangeness of him never mentioning a disaster that was non-stop for almost three months. You have to admit……of all people……I expected to hear “his take” on the situation. If there is a grave danger to the Gulf Coast residents (and there is), he needs to be honest with people about why he is leaving.

    Even the very Liberal Huffington Post published a story today on the terrible danger of the Corexit 9500 on the Gulf Coast and how many people were becoming sick due to this oil spill and the environmental contaminants. There has been a major cover-up with BP and the government, and Mr. Baldwin has been unusually quiet……I just find that strange.

  33. A Voice in the Wilderness

    I smell a rat in Montana, another “Non Profit” church heading this way.

    Anyone notice the link for donations?

    Paul never took a donation for himself, neither did he make a partner of Rome so he could avoid taxes.


  34. Magnolia

    To: “A Voice in the Wilderness”

    They never miss the “Donation Button”. No matter who they are or what message the preach, it always leads back to the donation button. I wonder how many people would work for God if the money was stripped away.

    So many people in the ministry (not just Him, but a LOT of ministries and Gospel singing groups) are really running a business. They call it a non-profit 501-C3 and then live like kings and queens.

    The church seems to enjoy mixing with the world of politics and the world in general. In September, the National Quartet Convention (Southern Gospel) will be held in Louisville, Kentucky. The guest speaker is Sarah Palin. Even the world of Gospel music is winding its way into the political realm.

    Can it ever be just about “The Gospel”?

  35. RedPhillips Post author

    Magnolia, despite your feigned innocence (I am simply questioning his lack of discussion regarding this oil disaster.) you DID imply a conspiracy based only on silence. That is a bit of a leap.

    Also, Chuck Baldwin is an Independent Baptist. Many seminaries in that “denomination” are not accredited. Some because they don’t have the resources to be, and some because they oppose secular accreditation on theological grounds. We can debate the quality of education that some of those institutions provide, but there is a difference between an unaccredited college that is making a good faith effort to educate and a diploma mill.

    IMO people with earned doctorates from unaccredited religious institutions that are not diploma mills are entitled to refer to themselves as doctor. Baldwin, from what I understand, has two honorary doctorates, but only an earned masters.

    It is IMO appropriate for others to address someone with an honorary doctorate as doctor as a show of respect, but it would be iffy if they referred to themselves as doctor.

  36. Leon Kennedy

    I’d like to point out that the Bible requires a tithe to be given to God. The tithe is ten percent of all your increase and Abram was the firdt man recorded in the Bible to give a tithe. I point that out to folks who say there was no tithe requirement before Moses. Moreover the tithe is used to honor God through a) his prophets and b) his priests. It is a requirement laid out in the Bible that the church support its minister and that requirement was ordained by God Himself. That is the reason for the donation button folks. It is to honor the Lord and to support His preachers, not to allow them to live the life of a king. Chuck Baldwin would make more money staying in Pensacola instead of going to Montana. Retirement pay is less than a full paycheck afterall, and keep in mind Florida does not have a state income tax while Montana does. As far as the oil spill goes I doubt it has anything to do with this but we can aways email him and ask him his thoughts on it.

  37. Leon Kennedy

    Sorry for the typo, i meant Abram was the first man recorded in the Bible to offer a tithe.

  38. Magnolia

    To Red Phillips:

    I’m not trying to imply conspiracy – I just honestly don’t understand why he never discussed this oil disaster. This was a huge news story, 11 men died and it was affecting his coastline. I would have honestly appreciated his viewpoint on the situation. I would imagine that living down on the Gulf would provide a person with some inside information and an overall view on what is being fed through the mainstream media.

    He has been so vocal on other subjects over the years, it just didn’t make sense that he didn’t discuss this very major news story. I can understand his first priority being the safety of his family, but it just looks a little strange that even in his “I’m Going to Montana” article, NOTHING was said about the Gulf Oil disaster. Does this not strike anyone else as strange?

    About the doctorate issue…….

    So many people, not just Mr. Baldwin, are putting the title of Doctor in front of their names and SO many of them are receiving their doctorates from diploma mills and unaccredited institutions. To be honest, unaccredited institutions are not really taken seriously.

    My husband went to school for eleven years….Bachelor Degree in Political Science, Master of Divinity and Doctorate of Ministry. He also served as a Vice-President for 15 years at a Southern Baptist University in Texas, with five years served as Provost. He understands first hand the hard work in attaining a degree. This is a source of contention for professors and those with doctorates who have worked hard to earn the degree.

    It is very unsettling to see religious people in general running around calling themselves doctor when the degree has not been earned through an actual accredited program of hard work and dedication. Even if I received an honorary doctorate degree, I would not want to be referred to as Dr. because I didn’t earn the degree.

    Today, so many people in general in the religious world push the envelope on honesty an integrity. I’m not against Mr. Baldwin or mad with him or anything else……I truly wish he and his family the best. I am simply questioning his reasoning for not discussing a problem that will haunt this country for decades to come.

  39. Magnolia

    To Leon:

    I understand your reasoning on tithes, but how do you explain people like Benny Hinn (non-profit 501-C3, pays not one dime of tax)……

    1. It was reported that in one year, he made $250 million
    2. His house is estimated to be worth 12.5 million

    I don’t call this a tithe. This is financing the “Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous”. Consequently, six televangelists are under Senate investigation right now due to these 501-C3 practices.

    (No, I’m not comparing Chuck Baldwin to Benny Hinn…..I’m just making a point)

    The tithe needs to go to your local church. It is the local church pastor who visits the hospitals, buries the dead and officiates the wedding ceremonies.

  40. Magnolia

    Leon, thank you for the link. I’m eager to hear this. This is the absolute first time I’ve heard that he made remarks on this.

    Again, thank you for sharing the link. (I still wonder why he didn’t write about it, but I’ll listen to the You Tube video)

  41. Leon Kennedy

    I think the biggest problem is when you have wolves in sheep’s clothing. Scripture tells us to know a tree by the fruid it produces. False teachers who preach prosperity doctrine have done untold damage to the church and Christianity as a whole. That is one of the things that I’ve seen Pastor Baldwin go on the attack about on his Internet sermons. People resist the idea that we are all sinners and lost without Christ. Just look at some of the comments on this forum and you can see I’m right. The problem becomes even worse when you have these Churchianity prosperity preaching slimeballs who teach God is an ATM machine . That He never judges anyone and we are all good people who just need to wait for our treasures to come our way. That is false doctrine and has done untold damage. That is why I support Pastor Baldwin with prayer, my tithes and an offering. His minestry has never been about Chuck Baldwin, it has always been about Christ, and through Christ we are all made free. It is a principle of Natural Law. If you have never read Freedom For a Change I can’t recomend it enough. It explains all this much better than I can. Check it out on

  42. trailcat

    We ran, in 2007, to Northern Nevada. We saw the handwriting on the wall in 2001 and began to prepare. It wasn’t hard once the mind made the move first.

  43. paul L

    Chuck is scared something is going to happen in the area where he lives.gulf oil,stronger hurricanes,economic collapse he has convienced all the families to get away from the populated areas.You don’t go to areas where it is extreme cold when you get older.Shame on Chuck for saying the people where he is moving care about freedom more than the people where he lived.Chucks voice in the wilderness will mean very little to those he left behind to hide near the Canadan border.

  44. '..... just look at the activists ' [Lake]

    “…….. after the first reports, a helicopter pilot with Mariner reported seeing an oil sheen more than 1.5 kilometres (Lake: about a mile) long and some 30 metres (Lake: about 100 feet) wide emanating from the platform. But the US Coast Guard has been unable to find the sheen. The hunt for oil continues.

    Mariner has stated that the platform was not actually producing oil and gas at the time of the fire …………….” a stand alone non MSM

  45. Magnolia

    Leon, thank you for the other link. When we finish with our appointments this afternoon, I want to sit down and view those videos.

    Also, I agree with you about the prosperity Gospel teachers. Jesus warned us time and time again in the New Testament. It’s an abomination how so many of the televangelists have made a mockery of the Bible.

    On a different note:

    I saw this article today on a very Liberal website, The Huffington Post. You know it’s bad when a Liberal site starts exposing some truth:

  46. Chris Baldwin

    I find it very humorous that so many people are saying that the Baldwin family is moving because of the oil spill. Only in this gossip circle was it ever mention. It was never mention in the Baldwin family. Since when does Chuck Baldwin run from a problem. The fact is the oil spill has absolutely nothing to do with the move. This only shows your ignorance and shallow thinking to suggest this. What do you people know? Obviously some of you are to coward to put your real name on here. If you are so0 right then be honest enough to say who you are. You wont because you are a coward. Chuck Baldwin started the church in Pensacola and has the right to leave it when he feels lead to do so and does not need anybody’s permission. He did not need your permission to start it. Sounds like a bunch of gossip. When you do not know the facts you just make a fool of yourself.

  47. NewFederalist

    Like I said many posts ago… who cares where Baldwin moves or why? It’s still a free country and one can move anyplace one wishes. And Chris, as for being too cowardly to post my real name 1.) no one would know me 2.)I value my privacy 3.)I hold a security clearance and I doubt my seniors would like my political views. If you aren’t okay with that then tough.

  48. Magnolia

    Mr. Baldwin,

    Why is it wrong to question the fact that Mr. Chuck Baldwin did not discuss in his News with Views written articles the situation with the oil disaster?

    I have been reading his columns for several years and thoroughly enjoy his writing and his viewpoints. He has not been shy about the corruption in the government, the corruption in corporations nor the corruption in religious organizations.

    Since he has openly discussed very broad matters regarding our corrupt government, I personally found it strange that he didn’t discuss the Gulf Oil Disaster. On this forum, Mr. Leon Kennedy sent a link of his interview with Alex Jones. I had not seen that particular interview and look forward to viewing the video.

    Anyway, what would be wrong with leaving due to the Gulf Oil Disaster? It has been proven due to intensive research that the area is not safe. Five scientists from the University of Georgia published a report that said that close to 80% of the oil is still in the Gulf. Why is the government and BP trying to hide the obvious? I was interested in Mr. Baldwin’s viewpoint.

    Why have I not given my name? Well, we recently had our credit card number stolen due to possible skimming, and right now, we are very careful where we place our name and information. If you have ever been the victim of identity theft, you will understand. No, I’m not being a coward. This is my first time posting on this particular blog and I am just being careful.

    First of all, I have not accused your dad of leaving due to the oil spill, I have questioned the lack of discussion in the articles regarding the Gulf Oil situation……after all, it was in your back yard.

    If you read my posts, you will see that I am questioning……raising a question. You must understand that Mr. Baldwin has made himself a very public figure, has been very outspoken on important issues and even became a presidential candidate. When anyone becomes a very outspoken public figure, yes, they are going to be questioned.

    This is the problem with this country right now. People are not willing to raise a question. That’s why Obama is sitting in the Oval Office. Not enough people cared to raise a question. Consequently, Mr. Chuck Baldwin has raised many questions and I appreciate this fact. All I was doing was “raising a question”…….



  49. Cody Quirk


    evidence for a ‘Conspiracy of Silence’ in Baldwin’s case is no evidence at all.
    Didn’t you also check out that youtube video?

  50. '..... just look at the activists ' [Lake]

    Thx to Timothy Yung for beating Quackie Quirk Boy to the dysfunction of the Montana Constitution Party. As the oldest living eleven year old Cody Banks leads with his heart.

    Great for the artiste in fantasy land ——- but as for those of us battling the evil establishment and trying to live some moments each day in what passes for the real world …………..

    Kinda like when Cody Banks screams and shouts that the California AIP is the California Constitution Party, really really really, plz believe him! Or that the folks in Chuck Baldwin’s back yard are not unhappy campers ……… yet verified the paulie, on site!

    I can not verify the disconnect of the Montana organization. My sources are not certain on the detain and the ether net tells me

    “Not Found: The requested URL /amfam/CPOMT/ was not found on this server.
    Apache/2.0.46 (Red Hat) Server at Port 80”

  51. Cody Quirk

    Lake, could you explain these comments here?

    “…Dr. Feldman asked Mr. Lake for his assessment of his psychiatric condition. Mr. Lake said suffered from depression, sleeplessness and fatigue. He classified his depression as moderate. Dr. Feldman asked if the depression caused him to keep to himself and behave in an introverted way and not interact with others or does it manifest itself in “grandiosity”—notions of self-importance, notions of people being dissatisfied with his behavior. Mr. Lake agreed that his depression manifests itself through sleeplessness and fatigue. When asked if he thought he intimidated people, Mr. Lake replied he did when he is on the defensive. When asked if it happened often, he said outside of Cal-Vet, it happened rarely. Dr. Feldman pointed out that this is all about Cal-Vet and entry into a Veterans Home. Mr. Lake says the lack of structure hurts him. He believes his condition has grown worse since being removed from the Veterans Home at Barstow. Dr. Feldman asked if bi-polar disorder had ever been discussed…”

    “…Mr. Jackson agreed and said that is why Mr. Lake cannot be admitted into the Chula Vista
    Veterans Home. It is a community of veteran residents and there are no facilities for psychiatric patients.”

    “The staff at the Barstow home tried
    to work with Mr. Lake so that he could stay in the home. The conduct violations continued, and still he was not discharged. They took another 60 days to try to find him a facility that could help him.
    However, there were more conduct violations, he refused to seek the psychiatric help he needed and the Department finally had to go to court to force him from the Barstow Veterans Home. Mr. Lake appealed the decision, but it was upheld on appeal. Mr. Jackson called on Tom Arnold, Administrator of the Veterans Home.
    Mr. Arnold testified he had interviewed Mr. Lake in November 2000. Mr. Lake told Mr. Arnold that the staff at Barstow had been out to get him and were “railroading” him out of the home. He said all charges against him were fabricated and there was no basis for the conduct violations he received.
    There had been an incident at a meeting of the California Veterans Board in calendar year 2000 where he wrapped toilet paper around his head. When asked his purpose in doing that, he claimed it was an expensive means of head protection.
    Mr. Arnold said Mr. Lake had also made a number of threatening telephone calls to members of his staff at the Chula Vista home. Mr. Arnold read his letter to Mr. Lake denying him entry into the Veterans Home at Chula Vista based upon records and interviews and a determination that the care necessary for Mr. Lake is not available at the Chula Vista facility.
    Mr. Jackson called on Karen Carter, a Psychiatric Social Worker and the Veterans Home in Chula Vista. She testified she had a Master’s Degree in Social Work.
    She sat in on a meeting with Mr. Arnold and Mr. Lake as an observer. She described Mr. Lake’s demeanor during the meeting. She said he was very agitated, demonstrated anger verbally and through arm gestures, and denied having any responsibility for any of the problems reported by the Barstow Veterans Home.
    She said Mr. Lake appeared to be delusional and paranoid individual who externalizes problems by placing blame on others.”

    BTW, the Montana CP will return to the fold in due time.

  52. '..... just look at the activists ' [Lake]

    Cody Quirk // Sep 3, 2010:
    = No one likes a hypocrite!

    [Lake: he yelled while looking into the mirror!]

    [claiming LDS victimization ——– from Mormons!]

    [pious Mormon, divorced ……….]

    [a legend in his high school, as dozens offered to ‘drive him to the air port’!]

    [post secondary / tertiary schooling: a repeat]

    [California: a repeat]

    [the paulie thinks Nightmare Nightingale (California) and Quirk Boy (Nevada) have not taken major hits on their political / PR standings. Two tests are coming up. Let’s talk in late 2010 and again in 2012 ………..]

  53. Nat

    “Last Sunday, I retired as the pastor of the church that my wife and I founded 35 years ago: the Crossroad Baptist Church of Pensacola, Florida.”

    People do not found churches, there is only one church, and it was founded by Christ.

    “Many of them I had led to Christ, or were saved under my preaching. Some have stood with me for twenty years; some for over thirty years. ”

    God the Father leads people to Christ, not men. If this guy was a true Pastor, he would know that.

  54. Nat

    John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

  55. Cody Quirk

    People do not found churches, there is only one church, and it was founded by Christ.

    = And today, its called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

  56. A Voice in the Wilderness

    Hey Baldwin!!

    Drop your non profit status and get rid of your corporation. Stop making merchandise of people, then maybe, just maybe, I will listen to you. Until then, stay away from me.

  57. Lee

    Chuck has his priorities in the wrong places.

    God does not love America more than any other country, and Bible prophecy does not center upon our country.
    “All nations before him [are] as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity. ” — Isaiah 40:17.

    Of course, we are to speak up against evil, but that should be secondary to our Christian duty, which is “. . . Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” (Mark 16:15) Allowing one’s life to become consumed with a fear that SOMEDAY (soon or distant, whatever) preaching the gospel will be forbidden, and thus failing to focus on the gospel, is not acceptable.

    Chuck often spent his live-streamed sermons complaining bitterly that no preachers preached the Word… instead of himself preaching the Word. That’s wrong.

  58. Lee

    When making multiple comments calling people “stupid” and “retarded,” it is best to follow the basic conventions of the English language, such as avoiding run-on sentences. 🙂

  59. Magnolia

    Cody Quirk:

    It is obvious that you are completely “sold” on Mr. Baldwin’s calling and abilities. Here is the educational information that he lists on his BIO page on his website:

    EDUCATION: After graduating from La Porte High School in 1971 Chuck attended Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan, for two years. He then married and moved to Lynchburg, Virginia. He enrolled in the Thomas Road Bible Institute (now known as the Liberty Bible Institute at Liberty University) and graduated with his Bible Diploma. He then earned his Bachelor of Theology and Master of Theology degrees via external degree programs from Christian Bible College in Rocky Mount, North Carolina. Chuck received his first honorary Doctor of Divinity degree from Christian Bible College. He received his second honorary Doctor of Divinity degree from Trinity Baptist College in Jacksonville, Florida. On this occasion Dr. Baldwin brought the Commencement Address to a crowd of over 5,000.

    Now, according to his BIO, he has received two honorary doctorates……they operative word is HONORARY. A person does not refer to themselves as a Dr. when they are bestowed with an honorary doctorate. I would like for you to read the following page on this link before you decide to call anyone else an “idiot”, a “retard” or “stupid”. The fact that you seem to delight in labeling everyone who has a different viewpoint proves your level of education.

  60. '..... just look at the activists ' [Lake]

    I believe the Rocky Mount institution is connected with the Billy Graham / Franklyn Graham organization. It is possible that Mister Quirk of ‘think with out editing’ legacy is primarily focused on the LDS church.

    He, as a solid third party dude *sarcasm*, is big on GOP former governor of Massachusetts, Romney and may like Pastor Baldwin as Chuckie Poo is not hard on Mormons.

    He is an ideologue and quite impulsive. He prints articles with out his contribution line, and has for years, since TPW ——— and posted Las Vegas Review Journal articles after the word was out on the nuisance law suits.

    Did you contribute to the on line money raising effort? Did you know that he and or other insiders could have, for pennies on the dollar, stood up to the thugs in court?

    Hey, I did it thrice, and I am supposedly Bob Milnes Junior! It is not fun, but it can be done!

    I am not a perfect person, but I do cause my enemies to lie like heck! I get laws and policies past, only to be ignored when the average citizen is looking the other way.

    The establishment hates me, but in a different way than Cody’s class mates and partisans do ………

    Cody Quirk is utter convinced that he is right about every thing, and needs no verification from the environment / universe / his fellows. If he ever visited Ireland, England, or other Commonwealth area, he would probably insist on driving on the correct side of the street.

    *cell phone* dear there is some nut case on the road, driving the wrong way! *reply* Just one? no hun ———- there are hundreds of em!

  61. Doug lewis

    Hey Lee. I think you hit the nail on the head!

    “Chuck often spent his live-streamed sermons complaining bitterly that no preachers preached the Word… instead of himself preaching the Word. That’s wrong.”

    It’s not about condemning other christians. That’s a sin. And, it’s not about saving the country, thats for politicians. Preachers should preach the gospel and not fear the government and run to Montana and hide on their newly acquired 50+ acres. Reckon chucks been making good money from his mud-slinging too.

  62. paulie

    posted Las Vegas Review Journal articles after the word was out on the nuisance law suits.

    False. When the LV Sun reporter wrote to ask about it was when we learned of the Righthaven LLC lawsuit, and I had never heard of them or this tactic before. They issued no warning. It is clear that they are not interested in removing copyright materials, just in shaking people down for money. The clients (such as LVRJ) are going along with it because their content is failing to hold people’s attention and they are losing money.

    Did you know that he and or other insiders could have, for pennies on the dollar, stood up to the thugs in court?

    Cody, myself, and other IPR writers at the time had no say in that. Our contribution to the site is posting articles as volunteers. We are completely separate from the business side of it, and have no part in any such decisions. We don’t even communicate with the owner, except indirectly through Trent. And I don’t even have Trent’s phone number. Other than the ability to post articles, we are no more “insiders” than you are.

  63. paulie

    Although I don’t think Cody did anything for which he should have been removed or had unrelated articles taken down, I’m glad it led to us getting Red Phillips on board, he’s been doing a great job.

  64. Leon Kennedy

    Calling out lazy apathedic preachers isn’t a sin. All to often the Rick Warrens of the world hide behind fancy words and tiptoe around issues. I like a preacher who says what he means. If you like the Rick Warren types, more power to you, however the ear ticklers don’t do anything for me. Doug Lewis where did you find out he bought fifty acres of land? I haven’t seen anything online about that.

  65. Ragnar

    I have to smile when I read responses like these over the past few days.
    Doug, Leon and those who believe that this Baldwin guy founded or birthed a church need to get back to the Bible.
    The church is people! Not a man.
    Reading his farewell speech was nothing more than “I”, “ME” and “MY”.
    Read all about men like him in the Pauline letters of the New Testament.
    Besides, he preaches secularism, “freedom” etc. “Load your guns boys! We gotta save this great nation!” Is that what Jesus taught, Chuck?

  66. Ragnar

    Oh, and Cody, we’re all latter day saints if we’re born again, and believe Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God and that Jesus is God……John 1:1.
    If you don’t believe that Cody, then you must be in one of those “cult” camps.

  67. Michael H. Wilson

    Interesting comments on this thread. I just hope that Mr. Baldwin and his extended family members realize that the winter temperature in that part of the country can drop below zero and remain there for some time. The winters are certainly beautiful but they can be a test of physical endurance.

  68. Cody Quirk

    It is obvious that you are completely “sold” on Mr. Baldwin’s calling and abilities. Here is the educational information that he lists on his BIO page on his website:

    = No, but I thuink he’s a great guy and a good Christian.

  69. Deep river man

    like i had already said the wise will be leaving the unwise who continue their making errors with their voting and making their own decisons.. all this gives pain to the wise also

    I said they would leave to montana and maybe alberta canada.. but first to montana and hope other states comes together to secede from the unwise who elects crooks to harm all..

    and this person who i have followed and seeing high logic… he has just announced he and all his families are moving from fla to montana

    looks like the natural law has been triggered to bring these separations and save the wise…..

    The Hardest Decision Of My Life

    By Chuck Baldwin

    August 31, 2010

    Archived column:

  70. Cody Quirk

    Oh, and Cody, we’re all latter day saints if we’re born again, and believe Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God and that Jesus is God……John 1:1.
    If you don’t believe that Cody, then you must be in one of those “cult” camps.

    = Says who? Obviously your knowledge of the Bible sucks, and you are a simpleton excuse to make any claims about what real Christianity really is.
    Listening to you, I wonder if your family tree forms a reef.

  71. wolfefan

    Hi Cody – welcome back, but please don’t become one of the cacophony of conservatives here who can do nothing but insult and please, please, please don’t feed trolls. They feed each other enough to survive.

  72. Lee

    “Calling out lazy apathedic preachers isn’t a sin.”

    Of course it isn’t… but if it’s done by a preacher, shouldn’t that complaining at least be followed with the Word?

  73. Jay

    I have known of missionaries the world over who have moved from various mission fields because it became too dangerous to work there anymore. I’m told that one of Pensacola’s own denominations turned in a fellow Christian Creationist for attempting to uphold freedom from taxation by an overzealous and out of control federal government. He and his wife are both in prison now. When the people who are supposed to be salt and light are turning in their fellow servants like that because they are either ignorant of where all this is going, or because they are just plain scared of the communist forces that now control Washington DC and most state governments, it should tell all of us something about how bad things are about to get for the nation as a whole. Chuck has served his time and even more and done it faithfully. I for one don’t blame him for wanting to keep his family out of prison while starting over in a place where freedom might still have a chance. Most people will be fat, dumb and happy right up to the day when they are hauled away to the gulags by the goon squads. Sometimes in combating the forces of evil, you’re better off just to pull up and get out of the kill zone so you can fight another day.

  74. wolfefan

    Hi Jay –

    With respect, “I’m told that” such and such is usually another way to repeat gossip (a sin, as I recall.) If it happened, say so and provide a cite. Can the person who told you this provide enough information to verify that it’s true – even something basic like who are the people who are in jail?

  75. Tom Blanton

    There are rumors going around in underground financial crop circles that Baldwin will attempt to become a dental floss tycoon once he is established at his floss ranch in Montana.

    People should give the Rev a break – when God tells you where to go, you go.

  76. Jay

    wolfefan, It’s pretty easy. Do you ever read the news? So, I’ll give you the key words once again and let you do your own research on this travesty that you call repeating gossip before the internet is shut down for such searches. Just type in a simple Yahoo search ie.. Pensacola Creationist goes to Prison. It’s not a rumor if it’s true and especially if those who bother themselves to be informed know about it as well. So do your homework before you judge people and accuse them of gossip. Laziness and doubting are not condoned by scripture, (sins as I recall). Or do you just not concern yourself with the Bible when it fits what you would like to believe?

  77. Gary

    Ah, the scoffers are having their day, aren’t they? I moved back to my home state of Arkansas a few years ago. Both my wife and I heard God’s word to leave Florida. We lived in the Tampa area and loved it, then one day we woke up and felt this overwhelming need to leave. I walked away from a very lucrative job, sold our house 5 blocks from the Gulf, and moved back. I had no job and no prospects. But now my wife and I have work when so many do not. We are flush when so many are not. My old job that had been so secure? The company sold out and is no longer in business. God called me just in time to leave. But I’ve always listened to God’s calling. He is not calling me to Montana. He called me to Arkansas. There are a bunch of us here in the Ozarks, prepping and praying. Christians, listen to your Creator, not to the scoffers. The day of the Sinner is at hand. They will have their time here in this nation. It’s time for those of us humbled to God’s Son to shore up and prepare for the tribulation. It is already here. Let the scoffers have their day. It will be short lived. Do you hear it? The perishing is at hand. On our knees, Christians. Our voices raised to God Almighty!

  78. Jay

    Gary, I’m from Arkansas too. Where are you from? By the way. The tribulation was designed to punish unbelievers. The church is not mentioned in Revelation after chapter 3 and by the time you get down to “The Great Tribulation” in chapter 16, things are really rocking and rolling down there. But be of good cheer. The only tribulation saints that will be here are the ones that rejected God while they still had a chance at deliverance according to Revelation 3:10. The curse that is causeless shall not come according to the book of Proverbs. Don’t get me wrong. It’s still good to prepare for some hard times between now and the tribulation though.

  79. Jay

    Gary, one other thing too. Many people believe that the tribulation was designed to test the metal of Gods children. Not so. If all God wanted to do is make us say uncle, He could just give a family member cancer, cause a spouse to leave, take our job and income and a few other things all at the same time and His children would give up almost immediately. For some, the mere threat of those things is enough. But no. We are talking here about men whose hearts are so hardened that they will stand and curse God while the earth is shaking under their feet and everyone and everything is dying and being polluted around them. During the tribulation, men will cry out for the rocks to fall on them rather than repenting and turning to Jesus Christ. That’s the difference between sheep and goats.

  80. william

    lol. you have all been played. ahhhh life in the matrix, anyone got a cold beer and a hot joint? this shit is gettin crazy.

  81. Nat

    “People do not found churches, there is only one church, and it was founded by Christ.

    = And today, its called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.”

    Actually, in scripture it was always called The Church of God, and today is no different. Christ prayed that the church be kept in God’s name, not his….

    John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

    Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    1Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

    1Corinthians 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

    1Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

    2Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

    Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

    1Timothy 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

  82. '..... just look at the activists ' [Lake]

    RedPhillips // Sep 4, 2010:
    “Cody, I know Don gives you a hard time,”
    [Lake: point out my untruths ………. could it be that Cody deserves to be told facts?]

    Cody Quirk // Sep 2, 2010:
    ” IPR ought to make some changes with how people post here?”
    [Lake: starting with a certain 11 year old in Nevada ………]

  83. Jay

    Nat. All your scripture quoting sounds good and I probably would have fallen for your scripture quoting except for the fact that the LDS members believe that God used to be like man and that man will someday be God. Taint so. Man will never be the creator of the universe and he will never unseat God from His thrown. There is only one Lion of Judah, Alpha and Omega etc. But the Mormons are modern evidence of the strong delusion that God says will come in the last days, so much that if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived.

  84. Cody Quirk

    that the LDS members believe that God used to be like man and that man will someday be God.

    = He made us in His image, but we don’t believe in becoming him, only like him, to a extent; of course we will never take his place. Too bad you are ill informed about us.

    BTW, if you want a CFR on what I just said, I’d be more then happy to provide it.

  85. Cody Quirk

    [Lake: point out my untruths ………. could it be that Cody deserves to be told facts?]

    = Which are told to you by the radio inside your head that also told you how the doctors and nurses at that one clinic in Barstow were out to get you.

  86. wolfefan

    Hi Jay –
    Thanks for the info. If you were talking about Kent Hovind, why didn’t you just say so? The reason I thought you might be gossiping is that you said “I’m told that…”. If I know that something is true, I say that it is true. If I’ve heard that something is true, I say “I heard that this is true”, which implies that it might not be and that I haven’t verified it. I’m not sure why you chose to phrase it that way, but that’s okay. I didn’t mean to accuse you of gossipping – sorry it came off that way. Again, thanks for the clarification.

    FWIW, Hovind does not strike me as a “let your yes be yes and your no be no” kind of guy, but others will have their own opinions. IMHO if a Christian chooses to disobey the government, he/she should take their punishment. That’s how Paul and other NT Christians did it, anyway. I know that others disagree with me on that. Thanks again and grace and peace to you.

  87. '..... just look at the activists ' [Lake]

    Oh, the second state veterans home IN FEDERAL HISTORY to be denied federal funds due to poor inmate care?

    At a cost of $11M of state tax revenue to make up the short fall?

    That Lake’s ‘problems’ and ‘profiling’ began when he filed a complaint of a billing of the federal government by CALVETS / CDVA for over $1000 for a doctor’s visit and medical tests which never occurred?

    That one of the reasons for Governor Gray Davis’ being only the second recalled state executive in our Nation’s history was the terrible, terrible job of CALVETS / CDVA!

    That the turn over rate of CALVETS appeals hearings hovers at one percent! (AOK class, all together: Communist Kangaroo Court Trial, Rubber Stamp!)

    That’s Lake’s shabby, unethical, illegal treatment as high lighted by Cody Quirk resulted in #2002-101 as a scathing review of CALVETS procedure and mandated improvements.

    Most ‘improvements’ are then discarded after the heat cools off. Things like independent facilitators for appeals cases. Turn overs soared for about three years (AFTER Lake) then the independent facilitators quit showing up. Oh, and when the first, initial, one and only state CDVA independent Inspector General retired (AFTER Lake) five years ago, a replacement has never been named.

    But Don Lake is the ‘bad guy’! (And you wonder why I am so pissed at California’s greens, Libs and [the old] AIP ………..)


    don’t just take my word for it: *

    seven person CALVETS Board with three members

    like of posts, ‘hiding’ from the citizens

  88. Jay

    Wolfefan. I’ve never met Mr. Hovind personally. But I have seen his work and it flies in the face of evolution.

    I’m not sure where some of these people are getting the idea that there is some group of individuals that American Christians are supposed to obey unless they are bringing it here from other countries. Last I checked America was supposed to be a government of the people, by the people and for the people. In other words the people in Washington DC are supposed to obey us. Something they are completely ignoring right now. And legitimate government derives its power from the consent of the governed in concert with laws that are consistent with the constitution. Those who want a King or a tyrant should move to such a country instead of making this country into such a place.

    The pastors in Nazi Germany were real big on obeying Hitler until the day he came and started hauling them away to concentration camps to die with the Jews.

  89. '..... just look at the activists ' [Lake]

    Drunk Against Madd Mothers // Sep 5, 2010 at 9:38 am

    “Chuck Baldwin is an hero for the Constitution.”

    (Lake: Straight or sarcasm? As the CP is continually being ‘called out’ for having little to do with the Constitution. And earlier, similar complaints were leveled against the Tax Payer Party ……….)

  90. '..... just look at the activists ' [Lake]

    It’s all Don Lake’s Fault; really, really:

    December 10, 2009 2009-701
    Recommendations for Legislative Consideration From Audits Issued During 2008 and 2009

    Report (PDF)
    October 27, 2009 2009-108

    California Department of Veterans Affairs: Although It Has Begun to Increase Its Outreach Efforts and to Coordinate With Other Entities, It Needs to Improve Its Strategic Planning Process, and Its CalVet Home Loan Program Is Not Designed to Address the Housing Needs of Some Veterans

    Fact Sheet (PDF) Highlights Summary Report (PDF)
    April 24, 2008 2007-121

    Veterans Home of California at Yountville: It Needs Stronger Planning and Oversight in Key Operational Areas, and Some Processes for Resolving Complaints Need Improvement

    Fact Sheet (PDF) Highlights Summary Report (PDF)
    April 3, 2008 I2008-1

    Investigations of Improper Activities by State Employees: July 2007 Through December 2007

    Fact Sheet (PDF) Highlights Summary Report (PDF)
    July 3, 2002 2001-127

    Disabled Veteran Business Enterprise Program: Few Departments That Award Contracts Have Met the Potentially Unreasonable Participation Goal, and Weak Implementation of the Program Further Hampers Success

    Highlights Summary Report (PDF)
    December 5, 2001 2001-113

    Department of Veterans Affairs: Weak Management and Poor Internal Controls Have Prevented the Department From Establishing an Effective Cash Collection System

    Highlights Summary Report (PDF)
    March 28, 2001 2000-132

    California Department of Veterans Affairs: Its Life and Disability Insurance Program, Financially Weakened by Past Neglect, Offers Reduced Insurance Benefits to Veterans and Faces an Uncertain Future

    Highlights Summary Report (PDF)

  91. wolfefan

    Hi Jay –

    A fair point, but does “the consent of the governed” refer to each and every individual citizen, or the group of citizens as a whole? Any individual one of us may or may not have consented to Pres. Bush or Pres. Obama, but the majority of the governed did, so they govern with “our” consent until such time as we vote them out, which may be pretty soon! Given the way the November 2010 elections are shaping up, I have few worries about tyranny.

    The vast majority of Americans believe that the income tax is legitimate, even though a small but vocal minority does not. I think that the income tax, whether we like it as individuals or not, reflects government acting with the consent of the governed. As to specific rates or policies – that’s another matter. We should elect representatives that will better reflect our views, or convince our fellow citizens to do so.

    I believe that Christians are to obey the government until and unless the government asks them to do something that goes against their understanding of Biblical teaching. When that happens, they are to nevertheless submit to the government, openly testify to what they are doing, and accept their punishment. That seems to be what Paul did – and the Romans certainly didn’t govern with the consent of the governed. If that means jail time, concentration camps, or crucifixion then that is what Christians are to do. The idea that Christians should somehow be exempt from the consequences of their actions is to me pretty unbiblical and relatively recent. Thanks for your thoughtful response.

  92. R_

    Going to Montana Soon to be a ‘Dental Floss Tycoon’ Zappa is King.
    Dont eat the ‘Yellow Snow’ listen and find peace and IRfrence it still is America its about being ‘FREE’ let GOD alone he may be busy. R_

  93. R_

    Who the Hell is Chuck Baldwin anyway Im just voting for Tom Tancrado in a much better state’Colorado’.R_

  94. Jay

    First of all wolfefan, you can’t pick up a newspaper anywhere in this country without reading about massive voter fraud. We haven’t had free and fair elections in this country for many years. America is just a high tech banana republic when it comes to elections. Secondly, the whole reason for the bailout of the big banks is nothing less than political payoffs and paybacks for throwing the elections. Doesn’t take much to see that. To say that” the vast majority of Americans believe in the income tax” is like saying that the vast majority of Americans believe that Oval office is occupied by someone who is incapable of crime. Truth is not determined by how many people believe it, although the number of people that can be conned into believing something can quickly become the norm in removing freedom and bringing about criminal mischief. Like you, I also believe that Christians should obey the legitimate government as long as it is consistent with scripture. And no, Paul was beheaded for resisting multiple governmental entities. Peter said, “We should obey God rather than men.” Our founding fathers were men of God and they knew just how evil a tyrant can be first hand. As a result they attempted to pass on the freedoms that they fought for to your generation and you won’t even speak up for it, much less fight for it like they did. You have no hope and no you are not righteous in your traitorous words of death that you have sentenced your own children and family to. If you really believe that the Republicans are going to save you this fall, you are deluded beyond hope. The Republicans are paid off just like the Democrats to sell out everything good, righteous, honorable and decent. The founders did not even believe that there should be a federal government. Much less this monster that is attacking individual states and sucking the life out of what’s left of America.

    “To remain ignorant and free, is a possibility that never has been and never will be.” Goethe

    Nature knows no pause in progress and development, and attaches her curse on all inaction.
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  95. Cody Quirk

    So Cody, are you also going to deny that mormons/LDS believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers?

    = We don’t believe they’re brothers, but both were beings made by God, and from the beginning, only Jesus was the one meant to be the Savior of Mankind. Again you’ve been reading too much of the anti-Mormon crap spewed by Ed Decker and others.

    The best site that addresses criticism of the LDS Church and its beliefs is-

  96. R_

    The greatest ‘Amendment’ is not the 2nd its the 1st. The second.Only needed when the 1st one fails…. Bless ‘Our Founders’


  97. Cody Quirk

    Checked out your first link, Don. It doesn’t talk about CALVETS at all.

    Did you post the wrong link?

    (Trying not to laugh)

  98. Liberty in Idaho

    It is fair, even appropriate, that a religious leader should speak of political issues. As the irreverent but religious General Patton said, “All questions are of a religious nature”.

    I would go even further and say that religions are to be faulted for the state of our political affairs. Tyrants (centralized governments) cannot flourish except in the soil of religious acquiescence. Had religions been diligent in training their members in their political responsibilities (if not religions then who?) the current political cancer would not have had the vigor to assault and metastases our constitution.

    Those who love liberty and freedom must stand and applaud religious leaders such as Chuck Baldwin who demonstrate such commitment to their love.

    (No, I am not a regular church attendee, do not belong to any sect, however, I do love God and John and Jesus and study the Four Gospels deeply.)

  99. '..... just look at the activists ' [Lake]

    Incase you are sincerely interested, which I doubt, you are just not mature enough. CALVETS is the evil hand maiden of evil CDVA. They share the same building, email, voice mail, staff, and postal mail in an often criticized, incestuous organizational relationship.

    you reach CALVETS Board ONLY through the CDVA web site …………

  100. '..... just look at the activists ' [Lake]

    Cody Quirk // Sep 4, 2010:
    “Paulie is pretty much correct on the Las Vegas matter ———- A company has sued Republican U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle, claiming she reprinted two Las Vegas Review-Journal articles on her campaign website without permission …………. ”

    More: Las Vegas-based Righthaven is seeking unspecified damages in its complaint filed Friday in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas……………..

    More: Quirk lives in Nevada and is clueless on Las Vegas Review Journal. Lake lives in an other state and knows the details.

    More: Quirk is a member, via Nevada’s IAP, of the imploding ‘national’ Constitution Paty. Months ago Lake knew of a dozen unhappy states, a half dozen in Chuck Baldwin’s back yard. Quirk pretended to be clueless, then back tracked, then paulie verified (on the Dixie states). Lake is not a member of the Constitution Party. (Go figure!)

  101. wolfefan

    Hi Jay –

    For me, what the founders believed is not dispositive. They believed lots of things that were wrong. One thing they certainly did believe was in a federal government; that was the whole point of replacing the Articles with the Constitution – to strengthen the federal government.

    Although we disagree, I wish you well. Grace and peace to you.

  102. Jay

    wolfefan, I have no idea where you get the idea that the founding fathers believed in a centralized federal government with the power to tax or rule over the individual states. Such an idea was anathema to them. They were scared to death of such an animal and worked hard to keep it from happening. Most refused to sign on to the idea of even having an association of states at first, but found it necessary for the states to work together to fight off England in the revolutionary war. Without individual states sending delegates to Washington, there would be no Federal government. In fact, there is still no federal government, even as we speak. What we have in Washington was re-taken by the British in 1913 by the federal reserve act which once again enslaved the U S citizens to the crown. That’s right. When you pay federal taxes, they are going to the very enemies of the government that God has told you to obey. How can I say that? Because IRS headquarters is in London England. Don’t believe me? Take a look at this website.

    Is it not yet obvious to you that Washington DC hates the state governments that God tells you to obey? The latest example is happening before your very eyes with the White House suing the State of Arizona for the crime of protecting its own citizens and borders.

    The whole purpose of the constitution was not to strengthen the federal government, but rather to keep it from running headlong and roughshod over everything and everybody. Washington DC now has the power to do that and is doing so daily. It has no use or regard for the constitution whatsoever. It does as it pleases and will do even worse as long as it is fed your tax dollars from the bank of England.

  103. Mr E

    “Chuck Baldwin is an hero for the Constitution.”

    (Lake: Straight or sarcasm?

    an hero

    1) Committing suicide over something really stupid.

    2) Failing to commit suicide over something really stupid.

    3) Doing something stupid, which results in accidentally killing yourself.

    4) Also sometimes used on the work safe boards for someone who deliberately posts porn, which is considered both “suicidal” (due to the ban that usually follows), but truly heroic.

    Term originates from a grammatically incorrect poem posted at a myspace memorial for a boy (Mitchell) who killed himself when he couldn’t find his ipod.

    Yasmin Browder hung herself when her mother didn’t let her watch big brother; she is an hero.

  104. Jay

    And wolfefan, let me assure you that the founding fathers were much wiser men than yourself. It took more than 140 years and several wars before time and carelessness set in enough to allow women the right to vote and hold public office. The next year after women got the right to vote, taxes more than doubled. The gullibility factor immediately allowed more corrupt politicians to gain high office and that accelerated the downward spiral to where we are today.

  105. Donatello Novato

    Is it not yet obvious to you that Washington DC hates the state governments that God tells you to obey?

    God only tells you to obey legitimate governments, of which there are none on earth. If legitimate governments existed, Satan could not tempt Jesus by offering him to rule all the kingdoms of the earth. It had to be a real offer as Jesus would know if Satan was lying. Therefore, all the kingdoms of the earth are ruled by Satan.
    That means none of them are legitimate, and when you are to render unto Caesar what is (legitimately) his that would be nothing.

    The latest example is happening before your very eyes with the White House suing the State of Arizona for the crime of protecting its own citizens and borders.

    No, the crime of a racial profiling gestapo state. Both the white house and the state government of arizona are illegitimate entities ruled by the devil.

    The whole purpose of the constitution was not to strengthen the federal government, but rather to keep it from running headlong and roughshod over everything and everybody.

    Somewhat unlikely since it made the federal government stronger than it was under the articles.

  106. Jay

    Donatello, I understand your sentiments here, but Biblically speaking, there is a warning to those who despise legitimate governments. God gives corrupt governments to nations that forget God, and that even includes the several states. But the founders made it clear that the power of government was to be vested in the individual states and not in a centralized Fed. We just have to do the best we can with corrupt state governments and try to reform them where possible.

    My warning to wolfefan is that his ignorance of the form of government that the founding fathers intended is causing him to support the enemies of his own soul which are manifested in Washington DC and controlled by the United Nations and the Bank of England. God says that the government is here to watch over his soul by upholding justice. In as much as a government does so, it is legitimate. When that government robs him, it is then no longer legitimate because it is not upholding justice as God commands.

  107. Curious

    “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” -2nd Chronicles 7:14

    I wonder if this would work?

  108. Catholic Trotskyist

    The Founding Fathers were a bunch of terrorist war criminals. I would be very happy to spit on their graves, even Jefferson, who was a good writer. We would be muc hbetter off under British rule, which eventually would have turned into a Democratic government anyway. And the much superior system of Christian socialism.

  109. '..... just look at the activists ' [Lake]

    Cody Quirk // Sep 5, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    [Lake: point out my untruths ………. ?]

    [Cody: ……the radio inside your head that also told you how the doctors and nurses at that one clinic in Barstow were out to get you ……….]

    [Lake: not any more! After the state tax payers shelled out $11M for federal short falls, the money stream resumed, but the SNF (Skilled Nursing Facility, more intensive care, one $100, 000 fine after another ——— via negligent deaths) closed down shortly! To the best of my knowledge the CALVETS / CDVA Barstow facility still has 400 spaces / beds, with only 85 ‘inmates’. Two national and 200 state veterans care campuses and only Barstow has no ‘sniff’ ……….]

  110. Cody Quirk

    Why don’t you just send me the correct link, Don? Or does that radio tell you to just keep bleating utter nonsense?

  111. JDCM

    I get the feeling Chuck is running from something instead of to something, especially since his entire family is in tow.
    Magnolia.. I agree, why can’t it ever just be about the gospel and simply trusting the Lord? That right there is more the root of the problems in this nation than anything else. We can run but when we look in the mirror the problem is still there.. that being believers who have lost our way. It’s always about the ones who are supposed to be salt and light. Always.

  112. Jay

    JDCM, Quoting Chuck.
    “And God has led us to the conclusion that Montana (and nearby states) is the place where freedom-minded patriots have a fighting chance to prevail. Instead of telling you what to do, my family and I are showing you what we believe we should do.”

    Actually it appears to be both to something and from something. If I’m reading Chuck correctly, Pensacola freedom doesn’t have a chance and neither does most of the rest of the country.

    Personally, I’m not even certain that Montana has a chance, but it might. Now that the cat is out of the bag, Montana may be the first place the Feds go to start attacking individuals in their homes on a wholesale scale, just to prove Chuck wrong about freedom in Montana. Or they might do something else to Montana that we haven’t thought about yet. Either way, if God called Chuck to go there, I’m sure He has work for Chuck and his family to do and will see it through.

  113. Montana Mama

    We in the Flathead are very excited about the Baldwin family joining our community. We wish them safe travels and can’t wait to welcome them home!

  114. Deep river man

    Everybody better start stocking up the big battle is soon to go down. Baldwin has already flown the coop to a fortified ranch in a militant state with his whole family in tow. The feds and Obites are ready to enact martial law and resend the posse comitatus act at the beginning of the fiscal year when they can get there hands on more of your money – to stop the tea- baggers from taking office in Nov. and threaten the freedoms of americans. Buy ammo now!!!!

  115. reading a lot

    I see and hear statements like, “government does not uphold the Constitution anymore” and “Chuck Baldwin supports the Constitution.” Neither one of these statements is true. People have not studied or understood the US Constitution and their State Constitutions for the last 150 years. There is much to catch up on about what has happened to the Constitutions on the website

    Public officials ARE upholding the Constitutions, you just don’t understand how they’ve been changed.

    Thanks for reading.

  116. Cody Quirk

    Public officials ARE upholding the Constitutions, you just don’t understand how they’ve been changed.

    = I think what you mean is “how they are interpreted”.

    Well, the ‘living document’ theory is a bunch of crap itself; when it comes to that theory, it was used in the early Star Wars trilogy by Chancellor Palpatine, right before he became Emperor and created the Galactic Empire.

  117. reading a lot

    With all respect, “how [constitutions] are interpreted” is the kind of public misunderstanding I am referring to. The US and State Constitutions were CHANGED after the Civil War through the Reconstruction Period. The 13th and later amendments created a new relationship between the States and the US. People have not studied how these post-Civil War amendments are worded so as to completely change the form of government created by the Forefathers. All of the trouble today was instigated by Congress in 1865-1866. Today, Congress follows the blueprint started in 1865-1866; it doesn’t matter which party is in control, they both follow the same plan. Study the plan, reject the plan.

  118. Jay

    reading a lot” Are you telling us that Abraham Lincoln didn’t really free the slaves in the Civil War, but in fact made slaves out of the rest of the country? The story I hear is that Abraham Lincoln actually advocated slavery in the North but attempted to keep the Southern states from having slavery so as to keep them powerless against the Northern Union Federal government. My how things change.

  119. reading a lot

    Jay, Lincoln either “handled the emergency caused by the rebellious States” or “set up a backdrop of chaos” in front of which a new system of government was to be forged. If Lincoln freed anyone, it was only from private ownership and only in regions under military occupation; nothing further was elaborated about the future disposition of this class of persons when the military would be withdrawn. Congress was not going to let this opportunity pass; they proposed the 13th amendment with a power clause granting unlimited power to Congress. Everyone’s attention was focused on the first section about slavery and overlooked the power clause. All reconstruction and today’s problems are based on that power clause.
    Politicians tell people what they want to hear. During the Lincoln Douglas debates, Lincoln said the races would never live together in peace and he was glad he was a member of the favored race.
    There is so much more on the website which space here does not do justice.
    There are a few people on youtube raising objections about the 14th amendment but it all goes back to the power clause in the 13th amendment.

  120. Truth

    This says it all. . This move was pre-planned for a long time. How could it have been the hardest decision of his life? He had plenty of time to prepare in advance. Let’s all remember Pride comes before a fall. Look up Charles O. Baldwin you’ll see how long he had to think about this move. But really what should it matter? People move all the time. He wanted to move and he did. But one has to wonder how HE (Baldwin) could leave HIS church, the one that HE started and once loved so dearly. How could he leave a congregation in such turmoil the way he did? He feels led of God? I seriously doubt that God would lead him to hurt so many people with deception. But who am I to say? In time, God’s hand of judgement will tell the TRUTH.

  121. Cody Quirk

    Of course he didn’t just do this at the spur of the moment, to move takes planning, but your total BS on him leaving his church is laughable- pastors leave churches they start all the time, especially protestants & evangelicals.

    Obviously Seidenberg is grabbing at any criticism of this.

  122. James

    And to think it was just recently we thought we finally got rid of the damn neo-nazis here in the inland northwest….

  123. NewFederalist

    Jeez Joe… this thread hasn’t had a post in 6 months. Where have you been?

  124. John Frank

    This guy is a fruit! Brain washing fool! Can’t wait for him to get what’s comimng to him! Right around the corner!

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