Constitution Party Chairman Frank Fluckiger: “Forcing people to be moral has never worked nor will it ever”

The following is part of an email written by Constitution Party National Chairman Frank Fluckiger in response to Joshua Fauver about several Facebook posts and conversations involving Illinois Constitution Party activist Don Stone, a friend of CP National Vice-Chairman Randy Stufflebeam who was going to serve as the latter’s campaign manager had Stufflebeam run for the U.S. Senate in 2014, which after forming an exploratory committee he ultimately decided not to. These conversations were published on the Independent American & Constitutional Review (IA&CR) here and here.

Frank Fluckiger

I have no idea who Don Stone even is.  I looked over both the state chairman list as well as over the national committee listing (and unless I simply over looked it) his name was not there.

I concur with you that God gave us our agency to choose between good or evil.  I think that is a key element. Forcing people to be moral has never worked nor will it ever. Wanting to be good has got to come from within and it should be the roll of government to foster such an environment, but men should still be left to make choices of their own free will. God gave to man his agency that he might choose between good and evil, but that man should then have to face the consequences of his actions.  That is wny our Constitution was written for a moral and religious people.  It is wholly inadequate for the government of anyone else. The Founding Fathers fully understood this. Morality and self discipline has to come from within each of us.  Most people never come to understand that. The power of the spoken word from the pulpit has until the last 50 years been a major force in helping Americans understand the proper role between government and religion. De Toqueville said it well, when he stated that “America is great because American is good and when she ceases to be good she will cease to be great”   He recognized that it was from the pulpit that people were inspired to become better people. We are witnessing today the truth of his statement.

I am afraid I would have discontinued the conversation long before you did. Sustaining man in his God given gift of agency while still upholding the rule of law is a challenge that I have struggled with and continue to struggle with. Hopefully some day I will come to a greater understanding or that.

I have found it wisest to not even argue with people who hold to the concepts that you delt with with this person.  I am reminded of the truism that a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.  No matter what you say, you are not going to change his opinion. You  are simply better off to go on to other more productive activities.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.

Frank Fluckiger

54 thoughts on “Constitution Party Chairman Frank Fluckiger: “Forcing people to be moral has never worked nor will it ever”

  1. Mark Seidenberg

    Frank Fluckiger gave a quote of Pat Buchanen for
    Alexis de Toequeville. Toequeville never stated
    “America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.” Next thing we will be hearing “I can not tell a lie” by George Washington”!?

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party of California

  2. Ad Hoc

    The headline is correct. Forcing people to be moral has never worked nor will it ever!

  3. Andy

    “Ad Hoc // Jun 20, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    The headline is correct. Forcing people to be moral has never worked nor will it ever!”

    Yeah, it sure as hell has not worked with Virgil Goode, as he still has not paid the petitioners that he ripped off last year. I’ve now been waiting for over 9 months for the rest of my money from Alabama.

  4. Krzysztof Lesiak Post author

    @3 Andy

    If you send me more details, I can write up an article about it and publish. If you do, make sure to include the other petitioners. Are you sure that this is the Constitution Party’s job to pay petitioners, and not Virgil’s? I believe that’s what vice chair Randy Stufflebeam told me that ballot access is the party’s responsibility and the state affiliates’, not the candidate’s. As far as I know, the CP is currently in the red.

  5. paulie

    Chris,

    Our contract was with Virgil. However, he stopped paying once he got on the ballot and owes us for the last batch of signatures, which I believe was $2,000. He also owes other petitioners. One of them told me Virgil owes him $4,500. And I know of others as well.

    The original call to work in Alabama came from CP ballot coordinator Alison Potter. We had worked with her in a bunch of different states for years and never had a problem, so it was based on that and only on that we trusted Virgil (which turned out to be a mistake).

    Keep in mind that Jim Clymer as a candidate for VP was also on the petition that we successfully completed, and both Goode and Clymer are currently on the CP national committee. So I do believe that if Virgil is not paying (and he has already said he will not pay) the CP does owe us the money. And/or Mr. Clymer.

    Frank Fluckiger, BTW, accused Andy of “whining” because he has previously brought this up on IPR and said he should not pay us because we didn’t keep quiet about being stiffed for months and months on end. He also claimed not to remember that he had already promised the CP would pay the money months earlier.

    Due to these facts, I will not work with Virgil or CP again, and even if they pay everything I will never work with them again unless the money is paid first by the time they get any batches of signatures. Goode is a millionaire and the problem is not that he does not have the money to pay us. He did and does.

  6. Krzysztof Lesiak Post author

    @6 Paulie

    Do you think it’s worthy for an article for IPR or the Independent American & Constitutional Review? I personally do, and I believe this information needs to get out to as many people as possible, and hopefully that could put some pressure on these guys as well.

    On a side note, that’s such bullshit (and illegal too, right?) This speaks very negatively about them, and in a significant way undermines any credibility they have as a national party.

    And it’s pretty pathethic of them, because both Virgil and Clymer are quite wealthy (I believe Virgil may be a millionaire and Clymer I think has mostly bankrolled the CP himself). They really don’t deserve to have ballot access anywhere in 2016, if they can’t (or just plain refuse) to pay their debts.

  7. paulie

    I think the determination of whether it should be an article should be done by someone other than me, since I am one of the people owed money.

  8. Krzysztof Lesiak Post author

    @8 Paulie

    Okay. I’ll make the determination. It’s definitively worthy to be published as an article. This needs to get out there. A full article would include you, Andy and the other petitioners, as well as a response (if they give one) from the CP leadership. I think it’s a significant story.

  9. paulie

    OK..I will forward you the relevant correspondence and try to find the other threads where this was discussed earlier.

  10. Jill Pyeatt

    Paulie, Krzysztof, and Andy–I agree that’s it’s time to make this an article. It seems that nothing will change (meaning you won’t get paid) unless you change what you’re doing. Publishing an article and embarrassing those
    who can fix things is a good idea.

    Good luck!

  11. JD

    So is the CP going to stop discriminating against homosexuals? Frank just refuted a great deal of the party’s platform.

  12. paulie

    Chris – forwarded you the emails.

    Past threads I found on which the Goode pay issue was discussed:

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2013/05/trolling/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2011/02/debate-on-debate-parameters-plus-should-paulie-stay/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2013/04/cctuc-issues-statement-on-the-current-situation-within-the-national-constitution-party/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2013/04/important-highlights-from-the-constitution-partys-national-committee-meeting-in-baltimore/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2013/03/march-2013-open-thread/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2013/02/johnson-debt-1134602/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2013/01/constitution-party-releases-new-january-newsletter/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/12/robby-wells-speaks-to-constitution-party-national-committee-meeting-about-his-2016-campaign/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/12/new-years-resolutions-thread/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/12/constitution-party-publishes-new-newsletter-december-2012/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/12/lp-org-puts-oregon-convention-for-reeves-group-on-their-event-calendar-wagner-responds/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/12/virgil-goode-quoted-in-national-journal-article-re-va-election/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/12/interview-with-virgil-goode/

  13. Andy

    “paulie // Jun 20, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    Chris,

    Our contract was with Virgil.”

    NO, the original agreement to work on the petition drive in Alabama was made with a representative from the national Constitution Party. We had also worked on the Constitution Party’s petition in North Dakota a few months prior to this, and in ND we dealt with the same representative from the Constitution Party’s national committee, and the checks said Constitution Party National Committee on them.

    We started the petition drive in Alabama in June of last year, however, Paul and I were only there for about a week, maybe a couple of days over that, and then we got called to work a job in Maryland. We informed the Constitution Party person that we were going to Maryland, but that we’d be back in Alabama in August to finish the petition drive, and that we’d have more petitioners with us at that time. So we left, but then we were back in August, with re-enforcements (ie-more petitioners). It was only AFTER we had returned to Alabama to finish the petition drive that we were informed by the representative of the Constitution Party’s national committee that they were out of money, so that they were passing it on to Virgil Goode since their national party was broke, and this person gave me Virgil Goode’s phone number and said to deal with him directly.

    So the “ball” (so to speak) was passed from the national Constitution Party to Virgil Goode, their candidate for President, but it was done AFTER THE DEAL WAS ALREADY IN PROGRESS.

    Everything was OK until the end, and that’s when Virgil decided that since he did not need us anymore, that he’d weasel out of paying us. His whole demeanor changed at that point. There’s actually a term for this in petitioning vernacular, and it is called “The Final FU” (it should not be hard to figure out what FU stands for). This is when a petition coordinator or proponent decides that they want to rip somebody off, they often do it on the final payment.

    It was blatantly obvious to the person whom we were originally dealing with from the national Constitution Party that we were owed this money, and they told Virgil to pay us, but he refused. They told me that if they could not get the money out of Virgil, that they would see to it that the national committee pays me. It has now been over 9 months and I still have not received anything.

    There are two other people that I’m aware of who say they got ripped off by Virgil Goode. One of them is Nicholas Sumbles who did not get paid for his work in Vermont (which failed, but the failure was not his fault as he was sent in at the last minute, and what actually caused the failure was the state chairman not getting all of the signatures turned in on time to the election departments), and Darryl Bonner for New York (which did qualify for the ballot). Apparently, the national Constitution Party is recognizing that Nicholas and I are owed money, but they are disputing Darryl’s claim to be owed money for New York. I don’t know all of the details of Darryl’s case in New York, but I’ve heard his side of the story and it does fit the pattern of what happened to me in Alabama, so I would not be surprised if he did get ripped off in New York.

    I will say that this situation is ultimately the fault of Virgil Goode, and it does not necessarily reflect on the rest of the Constitution Party. My experience is that Constitution Party people are good folk and offer a superior alternative to the mainstream Republicans and mainstream Democrats. Having said this, they need to give Virgil an ultimatum to pay his debts or be kicked out of the party, and if he refuses, they need to kick him out and then take up a collection among their members to pay off any petitioners who got stiffed last year, and this needs to be done quickly.

    The last I heard was that they were supposedly raising money to pay petitioners, but I have not heard about them censuring Virgil in any way. They were supposed to have been raising money months ago, and the last time I talked to anybody, which was a month ago, I asked if they could give me updates as to how much they’ve raised, and I asked if they could at least send installment payments. I have heard nothing since then.

  14. Andy

    Krzysztof Lesiak said: “And it’s pretty pathethic of them, because both Virgil and Clymer are quite wealthy (I believe Virgil may be a millionaire and Clymer I think has mostly bankrolled the CP himself).”

    In all fairness to Clymer, this is not his fault, and if he had been the one tasked with paying us, I believe that we would have been paid. I spoke to him about it and he did not want to be on the hook for the entire amount. I told him that I understood, and I suggested taking up a collection, where he throws in maybe $50 or $100 or whatever, and then a bunch of other people throw in various amounts until we are paid off.

    I know that the Constitution Party is small, but still, it should not take THIS long to raise enough money to pay us off.

    If you want to play the game of politics you’ve got to be ready to spend money. If you are not, then don’t play the game of politics.

    I never had any problems getting paid the other times I worked on Constitution Party stuff, which was Pennsylvania (2004), North Dakota (2006), Arkansas (2007), Alabama (2008), and North Dakota (2012). Prior to this they always paid the correct amount and on time.

  15. Andy

    Krzysztof Lesiak said: “I believe Virgil may be a millionaire”

    According to a campaign finance website, Virgil Goode’s personal net worth financial disclosure statement said that he’s worth $4 million.

    Plus, as a former member of Congress, he is eligible for a Congressional pension. I’m not sure how much his pension is, but I would not be a bit surprised if it is over $100,000 per year.

    He’s got plenty of money, so it is not like he can’t afford to pay the petitioners who are still owed.

  16. Andy

    “Due to these facts, I will not work with Virgil or CP again, and even if they pay everything I will never work with them again unless the money is paid first by the time they get any batches of signatures. Goode is a millionaire and the problem is not that he does not have the money to pay us. He did and does.”

    If I get the all of the money I’m owed, I’d be willing to work Constitution Party again, but I would NOT be willing to work for Virgil Goode ever again. The man is not honest, and he treats people like garbage, plus he is completely unappreciative. I don’t know if Virgil Goode ever plans to run for office again, but whatever the case may be, I’d urge everyone to be very careful if they ever deal with Virgil Goode (as in hold on to your wallet, and watch out for the knife in the back).

  17. Andy

    “Krzysztof Lesiak // Jun 20, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    @8 Paulie

    Okay. I’ll make the determination. It’s definitively worthy to be published as an article. This needs to get out there. ”

    If you do post an article about this, you need to make sure that you have the story straight before you post it. I can help fill in the details.

    I have been ripped off on other campaigns before, mostly initiative, referendum, and recall campaigns, but this is not as relevant to this website as these types of campaigns are not a big topic here.

  18. Andy

    I assume that everyone reading this works for a living, or has at least done some kind of work at some point in their lives. Now imagine if you go out and work, the job is successfully completed, and the person or group whom you did the work for does not pay you.

    Petitioning work, or political campaign work in general, is not steady. You have to make the money when you can make it because the work is not always going on, or is not always good, so the effects of being stiffed given the nature of this work is greater than in other lines of work.

  19. paulie

    Hmm, didn’t remember that the checks were from CP. Here is an email exchange with Alison from June 28, 2012, which would have been before Maryland I think:

    Me: Why all of a sudden the issues with the pay? *

    We did ND, there was no problems. Does he realize we are the same people?

    I haven’t heard of him doing this in PA or VA.

    Copying all the petitions is a hassle.

    It costs money and takes up time. He should compensate us if he wants to do that.

    Alison: Because up until now it was the National Committee doing the paying. Alabama is Virgil’s campaign. Jim Clymer is running PA. Virgil says he is doing it in VA. He not trying to eliminate signatures, he’s just wants to only pay for those that are legible.

    I agree that he should compensate you for the copies. Please mention that in your cover letter and include the receipt. You should also include where he should send the check, and your contact information if you’d like.

    Send to:

    Virgil Goode for President
    235 S. Main Street
    Rocky Mount, Virginia 24151
    Let me know when you’ve sent them so I can tell him to watch for them.

    I am truly sorry this is happening. I’ve worked with you guys a long time, and we’d sure be shooting ourselves in the foot to alienate you.

    * The issue with the pay at that time was not that the pay was late, it was that Virgil wanted to go over photocopies of signatures and decide which ones he would pay for. In fact he came back to that same nonsense after the petition was successfully completed and he was certified for the ballot as one of his excuses for why he would not pay the rest of the money. In fact he talked about flying down to Alabama and actually going in to the SOS office to look through all the signatures just so he could find a reason to nickel and dime us out of some of the pay which was already months late even though he made the ballot. And not even to save money, because it would take him money to come down to Alabama. Of course in the end he just decided to not pay and stop making any excuses for it.

  20. paulie

    If you do post an article about this, you need to make sure that you have the story straight before you post it. I can help fill in the details.

    See the links to past threads above, it was discussed in detail on those and I forwarded dozens of emails about this which went into a lot of detail about exactly what happened.

  21. paulie

    I would NOT be willing to work for Virgil Goode ever again. The man is not honest, and he treats people like garbage, plus he is completely unappreciative.

    Exactly!

  22. paulie

    I do believe Jim Clymer should be one of the people primarily on the hook for Virgil’s failure to pay, since he was the only other candidate on that petition. However, I don’t care if the money comes from Clymer, the whole party or if Virgil has a sudden pang of conscience and pays what he owes. As long as it gets paid.

  23. Andy

    “paulie // Jun 21, 2013 at 8:05 am

    Hmm, didn’t remember that the checks were from CP. ”

    The checks for North Dakota were for the Constitution Party National Committee. I was under the impression that this was going to continue to be the case before we went to Alabama, and when Alabama started.

  24. Andy

    “were for the Constitution Party National Committee. ”

    Should read, “were from…”

  25. Andy

    Paulie said: “In fact he came back to that same nonsense after the petition was successfully completed and he was certified for the ballot as one of his excuses for why he would not pay the rest of the money. In fact he talked about flying down to Alabama and actually going in to the SOS office to look through all the signatures just so he could find a reason to nickel and dime us out of some of the pay which was already months late even though he made the ballot. And not even to save money, because it would take him money to come down to Alabama.”

    Yeah, I’ve heard of a lot of excuses to not pay people over the years, but this was a new one. I’d never heard of somebody saying that they want to dock somebody on signatures AFTER a petition has already qualified for the ballot, and AFTER the Secretary of State’s office had reported a high validity rate.

    Also, the thing about him wanting to take a trip to Montgomery, Alabama (note that he lives in Rocky Mount, Virginia) so that he can go to the Secretary of State’s office to personally examine the signatures, and then dock us for any signature that he did not think was valid, AFTER the petition had already qualified for the ballot with a report of good validity from the Secretary of State’s office is one of the most ridiculous things I’d ever heard. It would have cost him more money to take this trip than it would have saved him by trying to nickel and dime us out of money. This was obviously an excuse to weasel out of paying.

  26. Andy

    “Andy // Jun 21, 2013 at 5:18 am

    I assume that everyone reading this works for a living, or has at least done some kind of work at some point in their lives. Now imagine if you go out and work, the job is successfully completed, and the person or group whom you did the work for does not pay you.”

    If you did some kind of work, and the work was successfully completed, and the person whom you did the work for did not pay you, would you have good things to say about the person?

    “Petitioning work, or political campaign work in general, is not steady. You have to make the money when you can make it because the work is not always going on, or is not always good, so the effects of being stiffed given the nature of this work is greater than in other lines of work.”

    Another factor here is that petitioning work often entails traveling, and road expenses are typically more than one would spend if they stay in one area year round. There are motel expenses. You are going to tend to eat out more often at restaurants. You are going to spend more money on gas, and you may have to rent a car if you traveled to whatever place via airplane, train, or bus, all of which charge for tickets to travel on them. If you travel with your own car, there is extra wear and tear on your car which leads to more money being spent on car repairs.

    Some people may say, “Well just sue to get your money.” Traveling makes this more complicated as well, as you may have to travel long distances (with no reimbursement) to make court appearances. As has been discussed in other threads when this topic came up, suing can be more trouble than it is worth, and there is no guarantee that you’ll get the money even if you win a judgment.

  27. Andy

    “paulie // Jun 21, 2013 at 8:11 am

    I do believe Jim Clymer should be one of the people primarily on the hook for Virgil’s failure to pay,”

    Why is Virgil still allowed to sit on the Constitution Party’s National Committee, without even being censured, when they know that he has ripped people off?

  28. Mark Seidenberg

    I think I now understand. The National Constitution spend its funds on funding lawsuit
    between 2008 and 2010 against the AIP Chairman in three lawsuit over AIP leaving
    the Constitution Party, and lost so they
    had no money to pay Andy and others.

  29. Andy

    “Mark Seidenberg // Jun 21, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    I think I now understand. The National Constitution spend its funds on funding lawsuit
    between 2008 and 2010 against the AIP Chairman in three lawsuit over AIP leaving
    the Constitution Party, and lost so they
    had no money to pay Andy and others.”

    So you expect everyone to believe that Virgil Goode, and every other current member of the Constitution Party is broke? I don’t believe that.

  30. Warton Tennyson Fowler

    Bob Barr ripped off his ghostwriter, too. I sense a pattern here.

  31. Mark Seidenberg

    Andy

    To post 31.

    Cody Quirk told me yes they were broke. Why not
    get a reply from Cody Quirk on the CP being in the
    red.

  32. Andy

    “Mark Seidenberg // Jun 21, 2013 at 11:46 pm

    Andy

    To post 31.

    Cody Quirk told me yes they were broke. Why not
    get a reply from Cody Quirk on the CP being in the
    red.”

    I do not believe that every member of the Constitution Party is broke. They could all just take up a collection and donate more money to pay off these ballot access debts.

  33. Cody Quirk

    Joshua told me that, and several CP’ers privately confirmed that with me.

  34. Andy

    “Cody Quirk // Jun 22, 2013 at 1:19 am

    Joshua told me that, and several CP’ers privately confirmed that with me.”

    So you are telling me that everyone in the Constitution Party is broke? Are they all homeless and eating at soup kitchens? Are they all standing on freeway exit ramps or on sidewalks with card board “Will Work For Food” signs?

    How about you Cody? Are you homeless and destitute right now? Is Virgil Goode homeless and destitute?

    If so, then the Constitution Party is the first political party that I’ve ever heard of that is made up of homeless and destitute people.

    I remember a few years ago Paul registered somebody to vote, and there was a box that said Other on the voter registration form where are person could check that box and right in the name of a political party. The person Paul was registering checked the Other box and wrote in Poor Folks Party. Perhaps Poor Folks Party ought to be the new name of the Constitution Party, since apparently everyone in it is homeless and destitute to the point where they can’t come up with any money to pay off petitioning debts from last year.

    If everyone in the Constitution Party is not homeless and destitute, then they need to reach into their wallets and throw in some money to pay their damn bills, just like any other responsible person or organization does.

    If I don’t pay my phone bill, my phone service gets cut off. If I don’t pay my car insurance bill, my car insurance gets cut off.

  35. Andy

    If everyone in the Constitution Party is homeless and destitute, then how did they afford to attend a national committee meeting at a fancy hotel in Baltimore, MD back in April? Did they all hitchhike or hop on box cars like hobos to get there, and go dumpster diving for their meals while at the meeting? How did they afford to pay the rent for the room, or did they just meet in the lobby? Since it was a convention of homeless, destitute people, did the hotel manger throw them out of the lobby?

  36. NewFederalist

    Geez Andy… I know you are really pissed off about this but give it a rest already! The continual haranguing does nothing to advance your cause IMHO. Just resolve to not work with the deadbeats again and take satisfaction from their almost certain ballot access failures.

  37. Andy

    “NewFederalist // Jun 22, 2013 at 7:36 am

    Geez Andy… I know you are really pissed off about this but give it a rest already!”

    I’ll give it a rest after I get my money. I’ve got bills to pay. If every time I worked I got stiffed like mentioned above, then I’d be homeless and destitute.

    “The continual haranguing does nothing to advance your cause IMHO.”

    I haven’t said anything on here about it in several weeks. I would hardly call that “continual haranguing.”

    “Just resolve to not work with the deadbeats again and take satisfaction from their almost certain ballot access failures.”

    This does not put any money in my pocket for the work which was successfully completed.

  38. Andy

    “on the voter registration form where are person could check that box and right in the name of a political party.”

    Should read, “on the voter registration form where a person could check that box and write in the name of a political party.”

  39. JD

    Andy, I agree with you 100%. I think the worst type of person is someone who honestly believes they don’t have to pay for their obligations, you are not the only person who is struggling to get paid.

    For instance, I worked in sports management for a time. I am still owed money by the owner of the KBDL basketball league for a trip I financed and was to be paid back. My wife is also owed $3000 plus in back child support from her ex-husband. He also dropped the kids off at our babysitter once and refused to pay.

    Your situation is a little worse both in the money and the principle. I don’t expect much from semi-pro sports owners or convicted felons but from aspiring presidents and political leaders we should expect at least some sense of responsibility.

  40. paulie

    The continual haranguing does nothing to advance your cause IMHO. Just resolve to not work with the deadbeats again and take satisfaction from their almost certain ballot access failures.

    That’s pretty much the approach I’m taking. I only commented about this because a question was asked.

  41. Andy

    Check this out, they claim that they are “broke” when it comes to paying petitioners, yet somehow they can scrape together enough money to stay at a fancy hotel in Baltimore, MD:

    http://www.constitutionparty.com/GetInvolved/Events/tabid/139/Default.aspx

    Come One, Come All

    Learn More About the Constitution Party

    The spring national meeting of the Constitution Party is scheduled for April 20th, 2013, We hope you will join us.

    Listen in on training sessions and speakers. Meet members and leaders from all across the country.

    Location: Embassy Suites Baltimore BWI Airport, 1300 Concourse Drive, Linthicum, Maryland 21090, Phone: 410-850-0747.

    Date: April 20th, 2013 – Saturday

    Time: 8:00am to 5:00pm

    Lunch is included in your registration. The luncheon keynote speaker will be 2012 Presidential Candidate Virgil Goode. The hotel provides complimentary shuttle pick up from BWI airport. Your reservation at the Embassy Suites includes a complimentary breakfast.

    An early-bird registration is available to those whose registration is postmarked or called in with a credit card on or before March 30th and is priced at $140,
    regular registration for those whose registration is postmarked or called in with a credit card after March 30th and on or before April 12th is $150, and
    late registration for those who register after April 12th or at the door is $170.
    A reduced student registration of $80 is available for students 12 and over with an ID.
    In addition a special Saturday rate of $80 is available for non-National Committee Maryland residents, who are coming to learn more about the Constitution Party.
    Those only wishing to attend the Saturday luncheon and hear key note speaker Virgil Goode may do so for $50.
    Children under 12 may attend free of charge, but no meals are included.

    Mailed registrations should be sent to: Constitution Party, P.O. Box 1782, Lancaster, PA 17608. Checks should be made out to “Constitution Party.” All major credit cards are accepted.

    In an effort to keep down the cost of the meeting we did not set aside a large block of sleeping rooms. We do recommend the Embassy Suites Baltimore at BWI Airport (410-850-0747) at $95 per night plus tax (free breakfast and shuttle provided) if you make your reservation by March 30, 2013 and say that you are with the Constitution Party group. If our block fills up, there are also many other hotels near the airport.

    Hope you can make it to Baltimore on April 20th!

    ? Click here for a guest registration form.

    ? If you are a National Committee member, click here for a registration form.

    =====================================

    How did they afford this? I thought that they were all broke.

  42. Andy

    “JD // Jun 22, 2013 at 8:35 am

    Andy, I agree with you 100%. I think the worst type of person is someone who honestly believes they don’t have to pay for their obligations, you are not the only person who is struggling to get paid.”

    Yep, I’ve been ripped off on multiple campaigns, plus I’ve had a few people who I thought were friends rip me off.

    “For instance, I worked in sports management for a time. I am still owed money by the owner of the KBDL basketball league for a trip I financed and was to be paid back. My wife is also owed $3000 plus in back child support from her ex-husband. He also dropped the kids off at our babysitter once and refused to pay.”

    This sucks.

    “Your situation is a little worse both in the money and the principle. I don’t expect much from semi-pro sports owners or convicted felons but from aspiring presidents and political leaders we should expect at least some sense of responsibility.”

    How can you trust a person to uphold an oath to “defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic..” when you can’t even trust them to keep their word to the people who did work for them and to pay their bills?

  43. Cody Quirk

    While I largely agree with Mr. Fluckiger’s sediments here, he should’ve made such comments public & made them much earlier as well.

    No well, the CP is already done for.

  44. Andy

    “45 Cody Quirk // Jun 23, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    #36

    Uh, I was just talking about the party.”

    Then why don’t the members of the party donate so the party can pay of its debts?

  45. Andy

    Should read, “pay off its debts?”

    Do you like being a member of the party that rips off the working man?

  46. Waldemar Testarossa Fiumente

    Have people in Virgil Goode’s hometown been made aware that he is a deadbeat?

  47. Thane Eichenauer

    NewFederalist @38
    “Geez Andy… I know you are really pissed off about this but give it a rest already! The continual haranguing does nothing to advance your cause IMHO. ”
    I personally support continued haranguing until the claimed debt is paid off. Personally I believe it is practically a public service to let people involved in petitioning know how little leverage they have if they fail to be paid COD.
    For those who just cannot bear to read of Virgil Goode and the Constitution Party being labelled as a bunch of folks who refuse to make good on their promises let me encourage y’all to take out a mortgage on your house and pay off the welshed on petitioners. I imagine you could even get them to agree to comment no more on the issue (although that might necessitate an additional fee of $20 for every time someone asked them to stop complaining about not being paid as agreed).
    I’d love to see an article on the current status of Bob Barr’s debt to ghost author Jim Bovard.
    http://jimbovard.com/blog/2010/05/27/barr-campaign-managers-solomonic-solution-to-the-ghostwriting-debt/

  48. Andy

    “Thane Eichenauer // Jun 24, 2013 at 12:52 am

    NewFederalist @38
    “Geez Andy… I know you are really pissed off about this but give it a rest already! The continual haranguing does nothing to advance your cause IMHO. ”
    I personally support continued haranguing until the claimed debt is paid off. Personally I believe it is practically a public service to let people involved in petitioning know how little leverage they have if they fail to be paid COD.
    For those who just cannot bear to read of Virgil Goode and the Constitution Party being labelled as a bunch of folks who refuse to make good on their promises let me encourage y’all to take out a mortgage on your house and pay off the welshed on petitioners. I imagine you could even get them to agree to comment no more on the issue (although that might necessitate an additional fee of $20 for every time someone asked them to stop complaining about not being paid as agreed).”

    Thanks for the words of support, Thane.

    I wish that we did not have to talk about it at all, and it would not even be an issue if we had just gotten paid after the work was done, or heck, even if it had just been a few weeks late (which is still not good, but better than this), but now it has been over 9 freaking months and still nothing.

    I assume that most people reading this do or have done some type of work to earn a living in their lives. Could you imagine going for over 9 months and not getting paid for work that was done? I think that this would be something that would make just about anyone furious.

    The fact that this is a political blog about minor party and independent candidates is the only reason we’ve mentioned it here. It does serve as a warning to other potential campaign workers, and creating negative publicity about it is one of the few recourses that we have.

    If I get the money, I’ll come back and say it, but so far, nothing.

  49. paulie

    Well, I’ll give it a rest for a bit myself. I certainly don’t like being ripped off, but then again I don’t expect this to be resolved, ever.

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