Wes Wagner has sent this letter today to the Libertarian Party State Chairs list:
I am writing and will make this brief — just so everyone has some updates on the status of things here in Oregon.
First and foremost we have already broken our record for partisan candidates. There are over 26 libertarians registered for our primary, and if history is an indicator, write-ins on our ballots will likely take us past 40. (Oregon is a state that has only 5 US House Reps so you can understand in context what this level of participation means)
I was recently contacted by our representative on the LP National Credentials Committee regarding the desire of the committee to hold court over our delegation. “…I would appreciate if you or whoever the delegation chair happens to be is prepared to meet with and speak with the Credentials Committee folks by being able to tell us when your convention was, how many attended (and their names) and ANYTHING else you can think of to “prove” that you are the authentic LP of Oregon.”
In response we will be discussing a boycott of the LP 2014 convention at our next board meeting on Wednesday.
It is also the general consensus in this state that at our 2015 convention we will be taking under consideration ending our relationship with the LNC Inc. We will have a long debate and definitive vote on the matter so that the issue will be resolved.
For those of you who are not familiar with the abuses Oregon has suffered as a result of LNC Inc interference, you can research the storied history on IPR ( https://independentpoliticalreport.com/ ) by searching for “Libertarian Party of Oregon” and start around August of 2010.
If there are other state chairs out there who understand the nature of the organization we find ourselves associated with – there are more moral and more effective means of resolving these issues rather than attempting to attend a convention where the rules of the game and the layout of the battlefield is preordained to create even more of the same type of institutional corruption and perversion.
I am always willing to discuss resolving these issues with finality with interested parties.
“That convention would have been much better had it been held on or near the Las Vegas Strip.”
It would have been much better if “non of the above” hadn’t attended.
Getting back to the original article, Mr. Wagner claims he was contacted by the Oregon State Credentials Rep. That would be Steve Linnabary.
I would like to see the contents of this supposed email.
-Mike Kane
Member – Libertarian National Credentials Committee
They were not part of what Steven Wilson said.
Bundy having esoteric views does not mean the government is not abusing him or other Western land owners.
David Colborne has written a good four-part article about the ownership and the Cliven Bundy case. I’ll try to get it up as an article soon.
If the LP had any sense, it would stay far away from Mr Bundy and his claims that he United States government does not exist.The anarchist claims that government *should not* exist are not at all the same as claiming that the Federal government is a fairy tale.
Paulie: “Neither is taking place without the LP. The LP is involved in both.”
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Key words are “even if”. In other words, an LP is not necessarilly necessary for such results if Americans act like Americans.
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Bob T
Neither is taking place without the LP. The LP is involved in both.
Steve Wilson: “Cannabis reform is taking place without us[.]”
“The militia took care of Bundy Ranch (not the LP)”
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Well, on the other hand, it’s good to see such results from an activist spirit even if the LP was not involved in any measurable way (and even if Bundy was more wrong than right).
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Bob T
It’s a short drive from the most populated parts of California and not too far from Arizona and Utah. I even managed to get there in a car from Chicago.
Kevin–
Is that an accredited school? With hot and cold running water, and all that cool stuff the sophisticates have?
I heard they play football there. I only went to Columbia (Sidelines: that’s in NYC, another backwater place like 1,000,000-plus Columbus), which ain’t much of a football powerhouse. We used to root for the band.
Seriously, I WAS at the LNC meeting when Columbus was chosen and to his credit, Kevin went against his hometown and instead voted for the Cincinnati Hilton.
As far as convenience, virtually no one in the LP can get to the middle of Nevada without getting on an airplane, but 60% of the LP membership can drive to Columbus in less than a day.
Frankly “Der” I don’t know what planet you are from. Were you at the August 2011 meeting when we choose Columbus? Did you see the massive amount of data and other cities submitted. And YES, we considered a Midwest or Central city for a non-POTUS convention. Why? Because we need attendance and St. Louis 2010 had great attendance with no POTUS election. Well over 1/2 of our national membership is East of the Mississippi. Just look at your top 12 states and you will see nearly all are East of Mississippi. Plus Columbus is cheaper in regards to flights than a lot of other cities. And we figured that during a POTUS convention, we could have it just about anywhere and people would show up. I love you armchair quarterbacks and keyboard commandos. It is the same MO: complain, be negative, question anyone that makes a decision, and yet never step up to lead. No matter how good something is, there will always be somebody ready to complain and cry about some conspiracy . LOL
Kevin –lifelong resident of OH IO. And a proud graduate from The Ohio State University.
Mark Axnin: Sarcasm noted.
Columbus was chosen for two big reasons: 1. To try to roll up LP-Ohio. 2. To pick a most unappealing location to reduce attendance to get the rejectards back into power near enough to their one remaining stronghold (LP-Indiana) so they could stack the votes. Ohio is that part of the Midwest that Pennsylvania didn’t want and Indiana smartly left behind. It’s visitor highlights are the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the First Four in Dayton, Jamie Farr’s nose, and the “Now leaving Ohio” signs on the borders. Their best road is the Ohio Pike, only because Indiana and Pennsylvania paved it.
The problem with Las Vegas, as Andy has stated, wasn’t that it was in Las Vegas, but that it wasn’t in Las Vages. They might as well have had it in Primm.
George Phillies: Hinkle is and always has been part of the Starr Chamber, but he has always deliberately maneuvered himself to portray himself as not part of it by his vehement (and usually vitriolic) denials. The fact that the nerve is always hit there when he’s confronted with it tells the truth far more than he does. Even in the unlikely event he isn’t part of that cabal, he’s still a rejectard, because he was tossed out as Chair by the delegates but then the LNC fucked up and put him back on in a vacancy, clearly ignoring the will of the delegates–which is why he isn’t worthy of being there. Ditto the rest of the Starr Chamber, and to some extent, the rest of the current LNC and their barflies.
I agree.
I had to buy it. They were selling them at the Washington State party across the hall from me. Among other things that night the hotel was fixing our hot water again…in the middle of the night.
” Mark Axinn April 19, 2014 at 6:45 pm
Paulie–
You be correct!
The 2012 Convention was in the middle of a fucking desert, where, no doubt, all of the desserts were grossly over-priced.
Columbus is a far more cost-conscious locale.”
The Las Vegas, Nevada area is a great place to have a convention. The problem was not the Las Vegas area, it was that the convention organizers chose such an out-of-the-way and inconvenient venue in the Las Vegas area. That convention would have been much better had it been held on or near the Las Vegas Strip.
” paulie April 19, 2014 at 7:14 pm
‘The 2012 Convention was in the middle of a fucking desert’
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.”
LOL at the geeky Star Wars reference! Paul is one of the few people that has the t-shirt that was made with a picture of the Red Rock Hotel (the site of the 2012 LP National Convention) with that quote on it. Talk about an inside joke.
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Paulie–
You be correct!
The 2012 Convention was in the middle of a fucking desert, where, no doubt, all of the desserts were grossly over-priced.
Columbus is a far more cost-conscious locale.
Steve and all others who celebrate:
Happy Easter!
I’m not. And would not accept a draft, not that I expect one.
That would be interesting and potentially yummy.
LOL, Mark (re: the reasoning for Ohio). That’s a good idea for an article about “Who’s On Next”. I’ll try to get to that in the next few days.
Sidelines:
You are mistaken on the reason Columbus was selected.
The only relevant criterion considered by the LNC is that my wife inherited a house in Akron, Ohio, two hours away from Columbus, and the LNC wanted to make it as easy as possible for me to attendthis year.
A prior LNC, which did not have my travel interests at heart, set the 2012 convention in the middle of a dessert 2500 miles away.
Jill–
Good topic for a new thread on IPR: Inside track on who’s running again for LNC.
People can chime in with pros and cons, expected odds, etc.
It’s extremely unlikely Ca will use all of her delegate spots. In fact, there might be quite a few open.I think I’ll start looking into that.
Also, I don’t expect Lee Wrights to run for the LNC again.
Wes–
>I suspect the Georgia affiliate will probably host some of the individuals who show up … like last time. I spoke with Doug Craig already.
Wes, you anticipated where I was going with my inquiry. I am glad you spoke with Doug. There are several states with large delgations which will not be filled at the Convention. New York provided delegate spaces for several Nevada and Utah residents at the 2012 Convention.
I see nothing in the queue or spam filter. And I think Pojunis may run for chair.
2012 was a fluke. The LNC still plays the languages as it did before.
2014 will get back into the lame carpetbagger syndrome, which will make the 2016 convention even more worthless.
We still don’t have a serious contender for Presidential candidate
Cannabis reform is taking place without us
Tax season came and went without a major uproar from LP candidates or state parties
The militia took care of Bundy Ranch (not the LP)
How is it that people complain about our numbers in state parties and national, when we cannot even deal with a state party and its problems. We expect voters to turn into our way of thinking when, at every chance, we do the same thing as the other major parties. If the media ever got a hold of this Oregon story, comedy central wouldn’t need their A game to make the Libertarian look a total ass.
Who’s on first?
Who’s at the wheel?
It doesn’t matter, it is the Libertarian.
The 2016 presidential election is going to be a big one (Bush v. Clinton–Part Two). If we stumble and fumble through it, then shame on us. Pathetic.
BTW, Happy Easter!!
My last comment seems not to have made it
From Der Sidelines: The 2014 takeover crew is relying on the fact that few people attend multiple conventions. There are about 150 regulars. Perhaps half belong to that crew, or 75 votes. It is a fair bet that IN, OH, MI will be fairly solid for the usual suspects. That’s another 150 votes, as they will have full delegations. Flipping Oregon would be a net gain of 20 or so votes. The notion that Hinkle is part of the Starr chamber appears difficult to credit, given their efforts two years ago. I would guess their officer slate would be more like
Chair – Rutherford (if he wants it)
Vice Chair – distinguished Ohioan
Treasurer – Starr
Secretary – Mattson
At larges:More difficult to say.One might propose that Lieberman would be a credible choice for that group. He is a very long term member. He always attends. As an alternate, his votes are limited at the moment.
I would anticipate a particular lack of enthusiasm on their part for Neale, Hagan, Starchild, Vohra, and Wrights.
My prediction is that they will win big at this convention.
Who is Starr paying and how much?
Scuttlebutt on the street has it that the same gang of rejectards in the Starr Chamber will be running for LNC again (Starr, Rutherford, Hinkle, Mattson) and that Starr has been backing a convention stack effort while Rutherford has been working behind the scenes to have LP Indiana unduly influence LP-Ohio, which was part of the reason why Columbus (ITMOFN, Ohio) was chosen for the convention site.
Apparently these rejectards are relying on delegates either having short or no memory of how they keep getting tossed out of office over the past 6+ years…hopefully the delegates will prove that reliance wrong and properly reject them again. But even if that happens you can bet the mortgage that the retard part will come out in the rejectards, they’ll not get the message, and they will try, try again…
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2014/01/delegate-allocation-by-state-to-the-2014-libertarian-national-convention/
If, by some miracle, the Reeves group gets seated as the Libertarian Party of Oregon, the LNC will have told the world they have no control and our party is just a big joke. I am not exaggerating. It would be a FAIL of major proportions.
Mark Axinn
I suspect the Georgia affiliate will probably host some of the individuals who show up … like last time. I spoke with Doug Craig already
I suspect that more people will realize after this convention how badly we need a new national confederation instead of the current LNC.
Especially how the combination of apathy and plutocracy is leading it to be the relatively worthless playground of some low order sociopathic individuals.
Fortunately all the value of the party is in our states, our people and those of us who have not compromised.
The LNC itself owns almost nothing of value … if it comes to it we can all pull together to make something better.
…all over again…
Deja vu…
Wagner’s posts do get posted to the state chairs list now.
Interesting riddle: Wagner sent this message to the State Chairs list. Based on history, one might ask if it came out the far end.
How many delegates does Oregon have?
I think you told me from whom, but not to whom or how much.
The remarks from iirc Steve Linnabary “…I would appreciate if you or whoever the delegation chair happens to be is prepared to meet with and speak with the Credentials Committee folks by being able to tell us when your convention was, how many attended (and their names) and ANYTHING else you can think of to “prove” that you are the authentic LP of Oregon.” should be viewed as extremely disappointing, but not at all surprising.
This issue here should be recognized as resembling a part of an effort to pack the 2014 convention. The next issue of Liberty for America will be covering one other part, involving a very large cash transfer from a potentially interested party.
What power does LNC have over credentials committee if it abuses its power?
I seem to remember that the LNC Judicial Committee look in in to this issue and found that ONLY the LNC board can vote to disaffiliate an affiliated State Organization, and ONLY the LNC board can vote to add affiliated States. The LNC Executive committee, nor does the Credentials Committee have any powers to remove an affiliate or choose another affiliate.
The LNC does not have any powers over the State Parties, as in how they are organized, who are the officers or how they conduct business.
It is the sole prerogative of the State Affiliate who chooses what delegates to send, if any at all.
The travesty of 2012 was never examined by the LNC and the persons involved in that fiasco never admonished for the out right naked abuse of power and massive over-stepping their powers. The 2012 travesty of injustice continues since LNC board has never put for any procedures or policies to prevent such injustice from happening again.
As a Libertarian Party of Oregon board member, and one who was not seated at the 2012 convention, I will be backing Wes Wagners motions to boycott and sending NO DELEGATION, as is our right, to the 2014 convention while this perversion and utter farce with the Credentials committee continues.
Our next meeting on on 4/23/14, and it is my sincere hope that those on the LNC Credential Committee purge itself of those who seek to continue with this perversion, and reorganize itself to properly and lawfully perform its duties.
I had an exchange with Vicki on the matter … a short one. She is sincere in her desire to see the correct outcome, but I advised her to go back and demand the resignations of the people who are trying to abuse the power of the committee and subvert the organization.
That was fast.