LP official presidential debates tonight; lineups announced

Posted at LP.org:

The Libertarian Party presidential and vice-presidential candidate debates will take place this evening, May 21, starting at 8:00 pm ET.

The presidential candidate debate will take place first, followed by the vice-presidential debate. Each debate will last an hour. Reason magazine columnist John Stossel will serve as the moderator.

Participation in the debates will be limited to those candidates who finish in the top five in receiving debate tokens from the national convention delegates.

The debates will be broadcast on the LP YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/LibertarianParty

 


And via facebook:

And the winners are

Jacob Hornberger 224

Jo Jorgensen 189

John Monds 113

Jim Gray 109

Vermin Supreme 100

Total of 915 out of 1046 delegated voted in this poll. Complete results will be posted later.

And the Vice President winners are:

Larry Sharpe 335

Spike Cohen 247

Ken Armstrong 161

John McAfee 26

John Monds 24

IPR note: unless I am mistaken there is also a 10% minimum cutoff; if that applies to VP, Monds and McAfee will not be in the VP debate despite being in the top 5 vote getters.

47 thoughts on “LP official presidential debates tonight; lineups announced

  1. Losty

    So No NOTA?

    Nuts…

    Wondering who out of that list will for all practical purposes BE NOTA?… IF Anyone…

    Will there be time for a Chair/VC/Secretary Debate Tomorrow If/When the motion is made to continue to Saturday and change the Agenda?

    Asking for a friend…

  2. paulie Post author

    I believe there is also a 10% minimum rule, so getting in the top 5 does not guarantee a spot unless you also get 10%. If that applies to VP as well as POTUS there would only be 3 in the VP debate, not 5.

  3. Anthony Dlugos

    If Jo loses the nomination to Hornberger, she can blame her muddled abortion position.

    Luckily, the sample question I proposed in my debate token email gives the candidates a chance to point blank answer the question as to whether or not women have a constitutionally protected right to abortion.

  4. paulie Post author

    From Dan Fishman:

    Friday at NOON eastern (6 hours before the Convention Starts) I will send an ElectionBuddy poll to every delegate asking them “Are you here attending the convention” At 5pm Eastern I will report to the Credentialing committee the number of people who have responded along with the list of names and states. Responding to the poll constitutes “being in the room.” The Credentialing Committee will verify the list and pass it to the Secretary before we come to order. As we get closer to the convention, I’ll send you a more detailed overview of Election Buddy.

    I will then check the election (which I will leave open) every 20 mins or so for new people to sign in, and report the new credentials number to the credentialing committee. Which leads to the obvious question: How do you change out a delegate for an alternate?

    Your state chair has an SMS number to contact me, but swapping out an alternate for a delegate is not the easiest process. Please PLEASE if you are a delegate and you can’t make it, let your chair know NOW so that we can have a very accurate list of delegates who will attend Friday and Saturday.
    ?
    We want to avoid all changes we could have known about beforehand.

    Please make sure to contact your state chair to find out how you all can communicate during the convention.

    We are using the Webinar format for the convention. Delegation Chairs will be “panelists”. Delegates will be “attendees”. Attendees cameras are off and are muted by default.

    In the Convention most rising votes will be done via the Zoom polling system. We know that some people are going to be watching in groups. We recommend that people bring laptops and phones to group watches so that people can still vote in polls, and potentially raise their hand if they wish to speak.

    For all balloted votes (For President and VP) states may use ANY METHOD THEY WANT to tabulate their vote and report it to their regional LNC member who will then report it to the secretary. Please check with your state chair to find out how your state is doing balloting.

    —-

    For Presidential Tokens we will send out an election buddy poll to every delegate AFTER the nominations who is “in the room” as defined above.

  5. paulie Post author

    If Jo loses the nomination to Hornberger, she can blame her muddled abortion position.

    I don’t think Jacob wins unless it’s on the first or at most second ballot. And I don’t think he has enough support for that. Jorgensen accumulates more votes in subsequent rounds; she is tolerated or likes by many different factions, hated by very few.

    I don’t see why she would lose to Hornberger due to abortion. It’s not like he is more pro-choice.

  6. paulie Post author

    Updated article with my current understanding re Monds and McAfee missing the VP debate due to being below 10% of tokens.

  7. paulie Post author

    So No NOTA?

    NOTA is automatically on the ballot and does not have to be nominated, but is not usually included with a representative in the debate.

    Will there be time for a Chair/VC/Secretary Debate Tomorrow If/When the motion is made to continue to Saturday and change the Agenda?

    Probably not, and I expect the motion will fail.

  8. Losty

    Paulie,

    Darn. I am all but expecting a second wave (If FL will count accurately, or anywhere close) by July, all but eliminating it as a site even if their bid gets through the LNC again… Or if it’s in Nick’s Hands alone now that the LNC approved and a contract is in the final negotiation stage…

    Hopefully they will put in a force majeure clause due to C19 (and any sane government action) if we’re lucky enough to see ] FL Numbers… 1400+ is still a large group in a smaller convention space, plus staff, vendors, service workers of the facility etc. Even though it may not be a packed house for the business section)

    And on the first part…

    So you’re saying there’s a chance 😉

  9. Losty

    I still believe in A Place Called Hope…

    OK, Sarcasm doesn’t work well either in Zoom or on here…

    Thanks Paulie…

  10. Anthony Dlugos

    “I don’t think Jacob wins unless it’s on the first or at most second ballot. And I don’t think he has enough support for that. Jorgensen accumulates more votes in subsequent rounds; she is tolerated or likes by many different factions, hated by very few.”

    I agree with that assessment.

    “I don’t see why she would lose to Hornberger due to abortion. It’s not like he is more pro-choice.”

    No, but she failed to capitalize on a way to differentiate herself from him. I would say she’s more amenable than he is to the idea of abortion as a constitutional right. She should have drawn that distinction out (especially in a pro-choice party)…not muddle it.

    I still lean towards her winning the nomination, but you know as well as I that stranger things have happened at LP Conventions. A candidate should never miss an opportunity to draw distinctions.

  11. paulie Post author

    A Message from Vermin Love Supreme

    Congratulations on being a delegate to the Libertarian National Convention!

    My name is Vermin Supreme, and as most of you know I am running for president this year. I am reaching out to ask you for your vote during our convention this week. I want to take a minute to introduce myself to those of you I haven’t met yet, and say hello to everyone I already have.

    I am running because I truly believe our nation needs a campaign built on love, respect, and unity in the face of the overwhelming divisiveness that has taken hold of our elections. A Vermin Supreme and Spike Cohen campaign will be built on love of liberty, love of one another, and love of this great nation.

    The excitement about my campaign from outside the LP has been incredible and humbling, and has resulted in over 125 new dues paying national members in the month of April alone. In the last 3 days we have received over 200 individual donations, mostly from outside the party, and that ability to market out brand and our principles to a wider audience will make all the difference this November.

    I’d like to ask you for your support during the convention, but my words don’t do justice to the truly awe-inspiring nature of what has happened in the last year of the campaign. My staff is a team of very dedicated, amazing, passionate Libertarians, and we would not have made it to this point without them. One of our wonderful team members has put together a fantastic video highlighting that, and I am proud to present to you our new campaign ad: Unity

    Most of all, I would like to thank each and every one of you for the amazing opportunity to participate in this process with you all. I regret I haven’t been able to meet more of you in person, and I hope that can soon change. I have truly found my home within this party, and I am humbled by how you have all welcomed me. It is quite an honor to be in a party of such hard working activists who put their everything into making the world a better place. This is no easy feat, and I hope you take a moment to reflect and recognize yourself for all of your accomplishments in the face of such mighty adversity.

    Sincerely, thank you.

    For Love and Liberty for All,
    Vermin Love Supreme

  12. Bondurant

    I’d like more diversification from LP presidential debates in the future. A bit stale like GOP and DNC debates. Becoming redundant with the same rehearsed comments and statements to the same ol’ questions.

    God bless Vermin Supreme.

  13. paulie Post author

    Candidate Name Token Count
    Jacob Hornberger 224
    Jo Jorgensen 189
    John Monds 113
    James Gray 109
    Vermin Supreme 100
    Adam Kokesh 71
    Arvin Vohra 24
    Dan Behrman 16
    Sam Robb 13
    Sorinne Ardeleanu 9
    Justin Amash 5
    Souraya Faas 5
    Steve Richey 5
    Phil Gray 4
    Lincoln Chafee 3
    Mark Whitney 3
    Daniel Davenport 2
    Gary Johnson 2
    Kim Ruff 2
    NOTA NOTA 2
    Andy Williams Jr. 1
    Eric Guerra 1
    Grant Ford 1
    J. D. Kearney 1
    Jedidiah Hill 1
    Larry Sharpe 1
    Nicholas Sarwark 1
    (blank) 7
    Grand Total 915

  14. paulie Post author

    COC Vice Presidential Debate Qualification Tokens

    Candidate Name Token Count
    Larry Sharpe 335
    Spike Cohen 247
    Ken Armstrong 161
    John McAfee 26
    John Monds 24
    John Phillips 10
    Jo Jorgensen 7
    Nicholas Sarwark 7
    Dan Behrman 6
    Mark Stewart 6
    Zoltan Istvan 6
    Adam Kokesh 5
    Justin Amash 5
    James Gray 4
    NOTA NOTA 4
    Jacob Hornberger 2
    Jason Spyres 2
    Sam Robb 2
    Sorinne Ardeleanu 2
    Brian Ellison 1
    Jeff Wood 1
    Joshua Smith 1
    Kim Ruff 1
    Laura Ebke 1
    Mark Cuban 1
    Matt Welch 1
    Thomas Knapp 1
    (blank) 46
    Grand Total 915

  15. Losty

    Remember, As you are watching this…

    “NOTA is automatically on the ballot and does not have to be nominated, but is not usually included with a representative in the debate.”

    Automatically on the ballot and in Nomination… For all offices including President and Vice President…

    Just saying…

  16. Anthony Dlugos

    paulie,

    its legal in Ohio.

    I don’t light up during a job interview, however.

  17. Bondurant

    @ Losty

    Delegates are well aware of NOTA. Ask anyone who was in Vegas. With the great Vermin Supreme it is not necessary but I would not fault anyone who votes NOTA or Baba Booey.

    Debate became a bit more lively after the openings. I like Stossel playing the contrarian and sought clarification on some points. He did a good job. I’d like to see him play a role in a live debate in ’24.

    If you’d like a nice Stossel kick he was on an recent episode of Dark Side of the Ring discussing his encounter with “Dr. D” David Schultz.

  18. Seebeck

    My overall impressions:

    Hornberger: bombastic, too much question dodging, attacking Jorgensen, too much rhetoric and not enough specifics.
    Gray: tense and arrogant, not the man I helped campaign in 2004, still stuck on Fair Tax.
    Monds: good on issues, terrible on presentation, needs a speech coach, no bow tie that looks like the Stars and Bars.
    Jorgensen: should have been asked the abortion question, presented well but gesticulates way too much.
    Vermin: presented well, came across as serious, stole the show with the doobie.

    My verdict: Hornberger and Gray sunk themselves, Monds is not ready for this level. Tie to Jorgensen and Vermin.

    P.S. the tokens to NOTA were me, both races. Unwilling to commit to any of them at the time.

  19. Anthony Dlugos

    “How often are you unemployed?”

    not too often, and only briefly.

    I will say this: Vermin occasionally sounded all right, and clearly isn’t in full Andy Kaufman Satire Mode. The best thing I could say is that, given how quickly he would be ignored post-nomination, he wouldn’t be a complete embarrassment.

    Of course, his real problem was brought into full relief by his decision to toke up: satire and actin’ the fool is what got him to where he is now in the LP nominating campaign. To the extent that he gets serious, there’s no reason for his candidacy to exist, because there are better “serious” candidates.

    To the extent that he satirizes politics in general, he marginalizes himself, because people…especially voters…actually think the job of President is pretty darn important.

    As an aside, I thought Spike was pretty damn articulate and quite possibly came off the best of anyone in either debate last night.

    Of course, he had no policy solutions, but he was articulate.

  20. paulie Post author

    Avens O’Brien is with Spike Cohen and 4 others.
    5 hrs

    Thoughts from the #LPDebate tonight:

    I wish they were all much better speakers than they are.

    I wish Jacob Hornberger was less aggressive so he didn’t come off as a smart jerk who has no sense of pragmatism. He’s like the stereotype of a Libertarian, and kept picking fights.

    I wish Judge Jim Gray and Dr. Jo Jorgensen were more interesting. Gray really failed with “there’s some limit to 1st Amendment rights at the courthouse” (seriously?). I’ll admit Jorgensen easily came off as the most *reasonable* choice in the final debate.

    I wish John Monds had more energy and more quotable lines because I think he could have a lot to offer.

    I wish Vermin Supreme were better at shaping Libertarian talking points into clever soundbites when being interviewed live.

    To whomever gets the nomination, I promise to help you articulate a compelling message to the American people. Soundbite training, practicing answers to common questions, writing up short and long answers to questions (and follow-ups). Because I want my party represented well, and you need the help. I encourage all my fellow Libertarians to help whoever gets the nomination. I think they need it, badly. To steal a phrase from celebrities during sheltering-in-place: we are all in this together.

    For more on my thoughts on who I think the nominee should be, go find a fresh article on The Libertarian Republic in the morning. 😉

  21. paulie Post author

    Hornberger: bombastic, too much question dodging, attacking Jorgensen, too much rhetoric and not enough specifics.
    Gray: tense and arrogant, not the man I helped campaign in 2004, still stuck on Fair Tax.
    Monds: good on issues, terrible on presentation, needs a speech coach, no bow tie that looks like the Stars and Bars.
    Jorgensen: should have been asked the abortion question, presented well but gesticulates way too much.
    Vermin: presented well, came across as serious, stole the show with the doobie.

    My verdict: Hornberger and Gray sunk themselves, Monds is not ready for this level. Tie to Jorgensen and Vermin.

    Mostly agreed, although I like(d) Monds a lot better than you apparently.

  22. paulie Post author

    given how quickly he would be ignored post-nomination,

    The one thing Vermin isn’t is ignored.

    To the extent that he gets serious, there’s no reason for his candidacy to exist, because there are better “serious” candidates.

    He’s built a bigger and better platform through the many years of satire.

    To the extent that he satirizes politics in general, he marginalizes himself, because people…especially voters…actually think the job of President is pretty darn important.

    And yet they elected the orange gasbag, while Democratic primary voters decided the best choice to challenge him last time was America’s most hated woman and this time another seventy-something white man with cognitive issues and accusations of sexual harrassment and abuse. Granted a lot of voters like terrible candidates but I think there’s room for a candidate who challenges that mass delusional clown rodeo with both satire and seriousness.

    As an aside, I thought Spike was pretty damn articulate and quite possibly came off the best of anyone in either debate last night.

    Agreed Spike did very well.

  23. Losty

    Weird, Because to me Pretty much everyone was in their own way giving a Speech for NOTA… Both Races.

    Some Straight up… And some accidentally.

    Vermin? In almost any other year he probably would get my actual vote, and he would get my nomination vote if I wished to be a delegate.

    Though I am In On The Joke, unless the Joke this cycle ends up being there IS no joke (Never Trust a Prankster!)… This year, and Last cycle, it is too important to be in for the country than IN On the Joke..

    Hell, Without Seeing Paulie’s name on any of the internal candidate lists, The Only Vote I know right now I would have made at convention is for a certain VC Candidate… The Rest? Well, NOTA would probably have a couple, but you need to pick a Chair… Any Ideas?

  24. Anthony Dlugos

    “The one thing Vermin isn’t is ignored.”

    When the presidential campaign heats up, he’d be ignored, because presidential campaigns are serious and he is not. He might get a couple novelty interviews, which would embarrass the party as unserious, then he’d be ignored.

    Yes, Donald Trump is a gasbag, but Vermin is in no way comparable to him. Trump had 100% name recognition, and 40 years at the helm of a 23,000-employee multi-billion dollar well-known organization. Vermin is in no way comparable to Trump, who was deadly serious about his policy positions. He satirized his opponents, NOT the political process in general. Of that he was 100% serious.

    You cannot possibly compare Vermin to Clinton and Biden in terms of qualifications either. They are qualified for the office, despite their various weaknesses AS CANDIDATES.

    “Granted a lot of voters like terrible candidates but I think there’s room for a candidate who challenges that mass delusional clown rodeo with both satire and seriousness.”

    There is not.

  25. paulie Post author

    We disagree. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like there are enough delegates willing to try to see what would actually happen.

  26. Anthony Dlugos

    Agree to disagree.

    I’ll almost certainly cast my first ballot for Gray, but he has very little to no chance and its his own fault. On the other hand, I am warming to a Jorgensen/Monds ticket. I don’t think its gonna get much coverage, but lets not underestimate the optics there. They are very good. Time for a woman nominee.

  27. Anthony Dlugos

    and I’ll tell ya, assuming it goes off without a hitch (big assumption), its gonna be nice being at a “convention” in t-shirt and jeans and sipping some Larceny bourbon in the comfort of home, with no concern about how I look.

  28. Bondurant

    DC is a joke. Why not support someone who’s honest that it’s a joke but still has principles? Vermin all the way for me. Hitching my saddle to a pony.

  29. dL

    not too often, and only briefly.

    You keep keep bringing up “job interview” like your quite familiar with the process.

  30. Anthony Dlugos

    “You keep keep bringing up “job interview” like your quite familiar with the process.”

    True.

    If we refer to the instance in this thread, I was disappointed that Vermin chose to light up a doobie.

    paulie responded by saying that weed is legal in Massachusetts.

    but my point was that I see the the job at the other end of our nomination process, and a debate as akin to a job interview. so I think a Libertarian running for office or for our nomination should put away the intoxicants until the “interview” is over.

    This does happen a lot. There appears to be a not insubstantial portion of the party that thinks people running for office need to demonstrate LIVING like a libertine in order to demonstrate what Libertarianism is about.

    I think Libertarians running for office need to sacrifice some of their time to the professional endeavor of running for office…so that other people can smoke and drink whenever they want, per the tenets of libertarianism.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *