Posted at LP.org:
The Libertarian Party presidential and vice-presidential candidate debates will take place this evening, May 21, starting at 8:00 pm ET.
The presidential candidate debate will take place first, followed by the vice-presidential debate. Each debate will last an hour. Reason magazine columnist John Stossel will serve as the moderator.
Participation in the debates will be limited to those candidates who finish in the top five in receiving debate tokens from the national convention delegates.
The debates will be broadcast on the LP YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/LibertarianParty
And via facebook:
And the winners are
Jacob Hornberger 224
Jo Jorgensen 189
John Monds 113
Jim Gray 109
Vermin Supreme 100
Total of 915 out of 1046 delegated voted in this poll. Complete results will be posted later.
And the Vice President winners are:
Larry Sharpe 335
Spike Cohen 247
Ken Armstrong 161
John McAfee 26
John Monds 24
IPR note: unless I am mistaken there is also a 10% minimum cutoff; if that applies to VP, Monds and McAfee will not be in the VP debate despite being in the top 5 vote getters.
So No NOTA?
Nuts…
Wondering who out of that list will for all practical purposes BE NOTA?… IF Anyone…
Will there be time for a Chair/VC/Secretary Debate Tomorrow If/When the motion is made to continue to Saturday and change the Agenda?
Asking for a friend…
Will John Monds really be in both debates?
I believe there is also a 10% minimum rule, so getting in the top 5 does not guarantee a spot unless you also get 10%. If that applies to VP as well as POTUS there would only be 3 in the VP debate, not 5.
Does anyone have a timeline for tomorrow? There doesn’t seem to be anything on the LP site.
If Jo loses the nomination to Hornberger, she can blame her muddled abortion position.
Luckily, the sample question I proposed in my debate token email gives the candidates a chance to point blank answer the question as to whether or not women have a constitutionally protected right to abortion.
From Dan Fishman:
Friday at NOON eastern (6 hours before the Convention Starts) I will send an ElectionBuddy poll to every delegate asking them “Are you here attending the convention” At 5pm Eastern I will report to the Credentialing committee the number of people who have responded along with the list of names and states. Responding to the poll constitutes “being in the room.” The Credentialing Committee will verify the list and pass it to the Secretary before we come to order. As we get closer to the convention, I’ll send you a more detailed overview of Election Buddy.
I will then check the election (which I will leave open) every 20 mins or so for new people to sign in, and report the new credentials number to the credentialing committee. Which leads to the obvious question: How do you change out a delegate for an alternate?
Your state chair has an SMS number to contact me, but swapping out an alternate for a delegate is not the easiest process. Please PLEASE if you are a delegate and you can’t make it, let your chair know NOW so that we can have a very accurate list of delegates who will attend Friday and Saturday.
?
We want to avoid all changes we could have known about beforehand.
Please make sure to contact your state chair to find out how you all can communicate during the convention.
We are using the Webinar format for the convention. Delegation Chairs will be “panelists”. Delegates will be “attendees”. Attendees cameras are off and are muted by default.
In the Convention most rising votes will be done via the Zoom polling system. We know that some people are going to be watching in groups. We recommend that people bring laptops and phones to group watches so that people can still vote in polls, and potentially raise their hand if they wish to speak.
For all balloted votes (For President and VP) states may use ANY METHOD THEY WANT to tabulate their vote and report it to their regional LNC member who will then report it to the secretary. Please check with your state chair to find out how your state is doing balloting.
—-
For Presidential Tokens we will send out an election buddy poll to every delegate AFTER the nominations who is “in the room” as defined above.
I don’t think Jacob wins unless it’s on the first or at most second ballot. And I don’t think he has enough support for that. Jorgensen accumulates more votes in subsequent rounds; she is tolerated or likes by many different factions, hated by very few.
I don’t see why she would lose to Hornberger due to abortion. It’s not like he is more pro-choice.
Updated article with my current understanding re Monds and McAfee missing the VP debate due to being below 10% of tokens.
NOTA is automatically on the ballot and does not have to be nominated, but is not usually included with a representative in the debate.
Probably not, and I expect the motion will fail.
Paulie,
Darn. I am all but expecting a second wave (If FL will count accurately, or anywhere close) by July, all but eliminating it as a site even if their bid gets through the LNC again… Or if it’s in Nick’s Hands alone now that the LNC approved and a contract is in the final negotiation stage…
Hopefully they will put in a force majeure clause due to C19 (and any sane government action) if we’re lucky enough to see ] FL Numbers… 1400+ is still a large group in a smaller convention space, plus staff, vendors, service workers of the facility etc. Even though it may not be a packed house for the business section)
And on the first part…
So you’re saying there’s a chance 😉
Theoretically, yes. Practically speaking, no.
I still believe in A Place Called Hope…
OK, Sarcasm doesn’t work well either in Zoom or on here…
Thanks Paulie…
Starts in less than 15 min
“I don’t think Jacob wins unless it’s on the first or at most second ballot. And I don’t think he has enough support for that. Jorgensen accumulates more votes in subsequent rounds; she is tolerated or likes by many different factions, hated by very few.”
I agree with that assessment.
“I don’t see why she would lose to Hornberger due to abortion. It’s not like he is more pro-choice.”
No, but she failed to capitalize on a way to differentiate herself from him. I would say she’s more amenable than he is to the idea of abortion as a constitutional right. She should have drawn that distinction out (especially in a pro-choice party)…not muddle it.
I still lean towards her winning the nomination, but you know as well as I that stranger things have happened at LP Conventions. A candidate should never miss an opportunity to draw distinctions.
Opening statements starting
Jim Gray: “get off my lawn”
and he’s wearing the boot.
Not anymore.
I stand corrected on Stossel.
He’s doing a great job so far.
I’d like more diversification from LP presidential debates in the future. A bit stale like GOP and DNC debates. Becoming redundant with the same rehearsed comments and statements to the same ol’ questions.
God bless Vermin Supreme.
Candidate Name Token Count
Jacob Hornberger 224
Jo Jorgensen 189
John Monds 113
James Gray 109
Vermin Supreme 100
Adam Kokesh 71
Arvin Vohra 24
Dan Behrman 16
Sam Robb 13
Sorinne Ardeleanu 9
Justin Amash 5
Souraya Faas 5
Steve Richey 5
Phil Gray 4
Lincoln Chafee 3
Mark Whitney 3
Daniel Davenport 2
Gary Johnson 2
Kim Ruff 2
NOTA NOTA 2
Andy Williams Jr. 1
Eric Guerra 1
Grant Ford 1
J. D. Kearney 1
Jedidiah Hill 1
Larry Sharpe 1
Nicholas Sarwark 1
(blank) 7
Grand Total 915
COC Vice Presidential Debate Qualification Tokens
Candidate Name Token Count
Larry Sharpe 335
Spike Cohen 247
Ken Armstrong 161
John McAfee 26
John Monds 24
John Phillips 10
Jo Jorgensen 7
Nicholas Sarwark 7
Dan Behrman 6
Mark Stewart 6
Zoltan Istvan 6
Adam Kokesh 5
Justin Amash 5
James Gray 4
NOTA NOTA 4
Jacob Hornberger 2
Jason Spyres 2
Sam Robb 2
Sorinne Ardeleanu 2
Brian Ellison 1
Jeff Wood 1
Joshua Smith 1
Kim Ruff 1
Laura Ebke 1
Mark Cuban 1
Matt Welch 1
Thomas Knapp 1
(blank) 46
Grand Total 915
did Vermin just light up a doobie?
Yep LOL
Legal in Mass
Remember, As you are watching this…
“NOTA is automatically on the ballot and does not have to be nominated, but is not usually included with a representative in the debate.”
Automatically on the ballot and in Nomination… For all offices including President and Vice President…
Just saying…
paulie,
its legal in Ohio.
I don’t light up during a job interview, however.
@ Losty
Delegates are well aware of NOTA. Ask anyone who was in Vegas. With the great Vermin Supreme it is not necessary but I would not fault anyone who votes NOTA or Baba Booey.
Debate became a bit more lively after the openings. I like Stossel playing the contrarian and sought clarification on some points. He did a good job. I’d like to see him play a role in a live debate in ’24.
If you’d like a nice Stossel kick he was on an recent episode of Dark Side of the Ring discussing his encounter with “Dr. D” David Schultz.
VP debate has started
Vermin! Vermin! Vermin!
How often are you unemployed?
My overall impressions:
Hornberger: bombastic, too much question dodging, attacking Jorgensen, too much rhetoric and not enough specifics.
Gray: tense and arrogant, not the man I helped campaign in 2004, still stuck on Fair Tax.
Monds: good on issues, terrible on presentation, needs a speech coach, no bow tie that looks like the Stars and Bars.
Jorgensen: should have been asked the abortion question, presented well but gesticulates way too much.
Vermin: presented well, came across as serious, stole the show with the doobie.
My verdict: Hornberger and Gray sunk themselves, Monds is not ready for this level. Tie to Jorgensen and Vermin.
P.S. the tokens to NOTA were me, both races. Unwilling to commit to any of them at the time.
“How often are you unemployed?”
not too often, and only briefly.
I will say this: Vermin occasionally sounded all right, and clearly isn’t in full Andy Kaufman Satire Mode. The best thing I could say is that, given how quickly he would be ignored post-nomination, he wouldn’t be a complete embarrassment.
Of course, his real problem was brought into full relief by his decision to toke up: satire and actin’ the fool is what got him to where he is now in the LP nominating campaign. To the extent that he gets serious, there’s no reason for his candidacy to exist, because there are better “serious” candidates.
To the extent that he satirizes politics in general, he marginalizes himself, because people…especially voters…actually think the job of President is pretty darn important.
As an aside, I thought Spike was pretty damn articulate and quite possibly came off the best of anyone in either debate last night.
Of course, he had no policy solutions, but he was articulate.
Mostly agreed, although I like(d) Monds a lot better than you apparently.
The one thing Vermin isn’t is ignored.
He’s built a bigger and better platform through the many years of satire.
And yet they elected the orange gasbag, while Democratic primary voters decided the best choice to challenge him last time was America’s most hated woman and this time another seventy-something white man with cognitive issues and accusations of sexual harrassment and abuse. Granted a lot of voters like terrible candidates but I think there’s room for a candidate who challenges that mass delusional clown rodeo with both satire and seriousness.
Agreed Spike did very well.
Weird, Because to me Pretty much everyone was in their own way giving a Speech for NOTA… Both Races.
Some Straight up… And some accidentally.
Vermin? In almost any other year he probably would get my actual vote, and he would get my nomination vote if I wished to be a delegate.
Though I am In On The Joke, unless the Joke this cycle ends up being there IS no joke (Never Trust a Prankster!)… This year, and Last cycle, it is too important to be in for the country than IN On the Joke..
Hell, Without Seeing Paulie’s name on any of the internal candidate lists, The Only Vote I know right now I would have made at convention is for a certain VC Candidate… The Rest? Well, NOTA would probably have a couple, but you need to pick a Chair… Any Ideas?
“The one thing Vermin isn’t is ignored.”
When the presidential campaign heats up, he’d be ignored, because presidential campaigns are serious and he is not. He might get a couple novelty interviews, which would embarrass the party as unserious, then he’d be ignored.
Yes, Donald Trump is a gasbag, but Vermin is in no way comparable to him. Trump had 100% name recognition, and 40 years at the helm of a 23,000-employee multi-billion dollar well-known organization. Vermin is in no way comparable to Trump, who was deadly serious about his policy positions. He satirized his opponents, NOT the political process in general. Of that he was 100% serious.
You cannot possibly compare Vermin to Clinton and Biden in terms of qualifications either. They are qualified for the office, despite their various weaknesses AS CANDIDATES.
“Granted a lot of voters like terrible candidates but I think there’s room for a candidate who challenges that mass delusional clown rodeo with both satire and seriousness.”
There is not.
We disagree. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like there are enough delegates willing to try to see what would actually happen.
Agree to disagree.
I’ll almost certainly cast my first ballot for Gray, but he has very little to no chance and its his own fault. On the other hand, I am warming to a Jorgensen/Monds ticket. I don’t think its gonna get much coverage, but lets not underestimate the optics there. They are very good. Time for a woman nominee.
There, we agree.
and I’ll tell ya, assuming it goes off without a hitch (big assumption), its gonna be nice being at a “convention” in t-shirt and jeans and sipping some Larceny bourbon in the comfort of home, with no concern about how I look.
DC is a joke. Why not support someone who’s honest that it’s a joke but still has principles? Vermin all the way for me. Hitching my saddle to a pony.
You keep keep bringing up “job interview” like your quite familiar with the process.
“You keep keep bringing up “job interview” like your quite familiar with the process.”
True.
If we refer to the instance in this thread, I was disappointed that Vermin chose to light up a doobie.
paulie responded by saying that weed is legal in Massachusetts.
but my point was that I see the the job at the other end of our nomination process, and a debate as akin to a job interview. so I think a Libertarian running for office or for our nomination should put away the intoxicants until the “interview” is over.
This does happen a lot. There appears to be a not insubstantial portion of the party that thinks people running for office need to demonstrate LIVING like a libertine in order to demonstrate what Libertarianism is about.
I think Libertarians running for office need to sacrifice some of their time to the professional endeavor of running for office…so that other people can smoke and drink whenever they want, per the tenets of libertarianism.