30 thoughts on “January 2021 Open Thread

  1. Fred Stein

    Take my campaign platform please by Fred Stein
    I am lazy. I want to change the world but don’t want to do the hard work. Right now I classify myself as an armchair politician. I hope to get my ideas out there and hope some other person steals my campaign platform and tactics. If that candidate wins, I win. I would have accomplished staying home and resting on my couch. And don’t forget my campaign fee. I get a free hot dog with sauerkraut but please hold the mustard. Enclosed you will find my platform and tactics please don’t share it with the Russians.
    If elected I will not take a salary, but will work on commission.If taxes go down I get a percentage of the money you saved.People who work on my campaign or have given me money will not get jobs or contracts. This ends conflicts of interests. Candidates constantly run begathons. They treat people like an ATM machine. I will raise funds by working directly for my contributors.My campaign menu is as follows.
    Mowing your lawn is 100 dollars. Washing your car is 200 dollars, Walking your dog is 300 dollars.
    Chaperoning your teenagers to a BTS concert is 2000 dollars.
    My biggest obstacle to winning the election is my wife. She promised to work for my opponent.
    because she loves me. She rightly claims winning the office would take me away from her. Could this
    be a diabolical scheme to get me to do neglected chores at home? If I did win , I would demand a recount.

  2. Be Rational

    It’s treason. An attepyed coup. Donald Trump must be arrested and tried. The House should impeach Trump immediately.

  3. William Saturn Post author

    That’s not a rational response. The protestors did not commit any physical bodily harm of which we are aware. The DC police however shot a woman inside and reportedly killed her.

  4. Be Rational

    A GOP source has confirmed, ”He’s out of his mind.”

    Remove Trump … immediately.

  5. William Saturn Post author

    That would be a massive overreaction to a property breach that President Trump did not order or endorse.

    The media and politicians have become hysterical over this. This finally gives them reason to attack Trump, who they’ve all hated from the start. It gives Twitter reason to suspend Trump’s account.

    Look at the facts:

    The protestors harmed nobody today. The police, however, took a human life.

    Why is nobody concerned about the human life lost here?

  6. Be Rational

    4 people died. Trump incited the terrorists.

    Trump’s delusions about the election prove that he is unfit to hold office.

    He is a danger to himself and others.

    Anyone as seriously mentally deranged as he would have a guardian ad litem or involuntary commitment to a mental institution.

  7. wolfefan

    I don’t know if Baked Alaska and his cohorts physically assaulted people or not, but there was definitely violence directed against the Congress in an effort to stop it from performing it’s legal obligations. Calling that a coup may be arguable, but it’s not irrational. There was definitely the taking of property by force, threat, or intimidation, which is the legal definition in VA of robbery.

  8. William Saturn Post author

    Congress was inconvenienced for a couple hours. This was not the 9/11-level event that Trump-hating politicians and media members are trying to make it.

  9. wolfefan

    If I attempt to rob you and am unsuccessful but nevertheless damage your property, I doubt that you will be so sanguine. It was a violent effort to keep Congress from fulfilling it’s responsibility under the Constitution. It was not 9/11 in terms of loss of life, thankfully, but as an assault on the Constitutional order it was worse than 9/11.

  10. William Saturn Post author

    Comparing the deaths of 3,000 Americans to a few broken windows and a two hour delay is idiotic. This did absolutely nothing to “Constitutional order.” The only victims were the four Trump supporters killed including an unarmed protestor that the Capitol police shot and killed.

  11. SocraticGadfly

    Bullshit, Saturn. As I said about Tom Tancredo’s claims (which, of course, you were the one to post), where does one even start with this other than perhaps not responding to it further?

  12. wolfefan

    In addition to the tragic death of protester Babbitt, a Capitol Police Officer, Brian Sicknick, also died from injuries sustained in the white nationalist riot. There were at least two other deaths, although I don’t know the details. To call the deaths of protesters and officers a minor inconvenience is an insult to their lives, their families, and their deaths for what they believed in whether we agree with them or not. I spent nearly 17 years working at a 911 center in the DC metro area. I guarantee that when there’s a home invasion robbery, which is essentially what this was, it’s not just a minor inconvenience for the victims even if there are no injuries. It is a scarring and life-changing experience.

  13. William Saturn Post author

    The lives lost mean nothing to the media members and politicians. They don’t care that an unarmed woman was murdered in cold blood. They only care that they themselves were made to feel uncomfortable for a couple hours. Maybe now they understand a tiny bit how it felt for all the people who had their businesses and property ransacked, looted, and burned down during the violent BLM/Antifa riots over the summer.

  14. Fred j

    Breaking into the capitol in an attempt to overturn an election isn’t just property destruction.
    This was an attempted take over of who controls the government power.
    If Trump’s consistent accusations of election fraud weren’t completely without merit- then the actions of the mob would have been justified.
    Therefore, Trump’s continued false claims from the position of authority should be viewed as inciting insurrection. He should be charged accordingly and those who forcefully breached the building committed an intentional act of treason.
    This should not be compared to vandals who through bricks thru the windows of closed banks during a protest.

  15. William Saturn Post author

    That’s not a valid legal definition of incitement.

    The Supreme Court in Brandenburg v. Ohio established a three prong test called the “imminent lawless action” test. It requires (1) that a speaker intend to incite lawless action, (2) that the lawless action is imminent, and (3) that the speech is likely to incite lawless action.

    In his speech before the breach, President Trump called for “peaceful” protest. He did not even advocate for lawless action. In no way can this be construed as an intention to incite lawless action or likely to result in lawless action.

    Anyone telling you Trump can be charged for “incitement” is either misinformed or lying to you.

  16. William Saturn Post author

    Why do Democrats and establishment Republicans want to impeach President Trump? Because they want to prevent him from running again and winning in 2024. Why? Because he is an outsider and doesn’t kowtow to the establishment. He didn’t accept an election that evidence suggests was fraudulent and he gets blamed for something others were able to do because of suspiciously lax security.

    Trump threatens the establishment and this is the result. This is what happens when an outsider wins the White House. And now his voice to the people has been silenced. Libertarians should keep that in mind.

  17. SocraticGadfly

    Saturn, you’re wrong on the “committed no bodily harm” claim, too. I’ve seen the video where they damn near lynched an AP reporter, and it’s not the first time. And, no, Babbit was NOT “murdered” in cold blood.

    You’re becoming execrable. There’s a good five-dollar word for you.

  18. Fred J

    Trump’s actions do meet the criteria determined by the Supreme Court,
    Sure, near the beginning of his speech he said that they were going to walk to the capitol to make their voices “peacefully and patriotically heard” and he promised them he would be walking with them.
    But in the rest of the speech his language was very different. He continuously repeated that congress and the press were intentionally and fraudulently “stealing” the election and repeatedly told the crowd that he and the crowd were “not going to let it happen” and “not going to stand for it”. He urged his supporters to be strong and tough and over a dozen times used some variation of “fight” when telling the crowd what they needed to do.
    He referred to congress and the press as enemies and claimed the country was “under siege” often claiming they were being suppressed.
    He was clearly instructing his followers to fight against congress who he claimed were illegally stealing the election, oppressing them, and trying to indoctrinate their children.

    After a long account of accusation of fraud and illegal actions against the people, Trump marveled at the size of the crowd and told them:
    “if you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country anymore.”
    Then told them to go to the capitol with the promise that their boldest adventure was yet to come.
    Is that enough to convince you that he wanted the crowd to engage in insurrection? I don’t know, but it was enough to convince many in the crowd that they should —and directly after his speech they did go to the Capitol and attempt to take it over.
    He had urged them repeatedly to fight against what he claimed were the illegal and fraudulent actions of people he labeled as enemies. Thanked them when they chanted “fight for Trump.” At one point he told them “when you catch someone in fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules” and then sent them to the Capitol.
    That is pretty clearly incitement of insurrection.

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