Green presidential nominee Cynthia McKinney is scheduled to deliver the closing address at the Third National Hip Hop Political Convention this weekend at the University of Nevada Las Vegas. Her running mate Rosa Clemente will co-host a “unity luncheon” on Sunday.
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I do not accept you or GE’s open-border arguements for libertarianism,and neither does Ron Paul. Nor do half of all libertarians
Libertarian principles are not opinion-poll driven.
If we the LP had done the kind of outreach to the left it should have over the years, half of LP members today might be for universal health care, and Kucinich perhaps would be a former LP presidential candidate, but that would not make universal health care a libertarian policy.
Neither does the continued one-sided recruitment from the right make anti-immigrant nationalism any more libertarian – just more likely to be in the LP platform in the future.
They are two different things.
paulie,
I do not accept you or GE’s open-border arguements for libertarianism,and neither does Ron Paul. Nor do half of all libertarians–so its obviously an issue in contention.
Free-trade is a fair point though.
We both know immigration isnt even a determined issue in the LP. I’d say as many as half of active LPers are secure-borders activists.
Consequence of that one-sided outreach thing. The LP does not necessarily define libertarian philosophy. Nowadays it mostly pimps it out to collect as much money as possible from disgruntled conservative Republicans before they go back home to the NSGOP.
Look, I would love to continue this discourse, but if you’re going to make off-the-cuff remarks like how I should stick to hip hop. Then I will not continue. I have shown you respect, and I would ask the same.
Please do. You have my interest, at least.
GE,
We both know immigration isnt even a determined issue in the LP. I’d say as many as half of active LPers are secure-borders activists.
As for free-trade, well–you’ve got me there. I forgot the JBS was protectionist.
One can be far left like a Liberatarian Socialist (like Noam Chomsky…or myself in many ways)…or one can be far right ( John Birch, Branch Davidians)…and it is still liberatarian.
Once again, it goes back to principles. All liberatarians belive in the phasing of government out of lives….but their reasons for doing so are vastly different.
This is true in a way, but political libertarians tend to define themselves very narrowly, not seeing how such a wide-ranging coalition could even be possible. If they made a good faith effort to reach out to Chomsky and his fans, I wouldn’t mind them reaching out to Birchers. Most of the time it’s all one sided though.
I’d say there are CERTAINLY Libertarian elements to the JBS, as I pointed out–William Norman Grigg is one of their most well-known people right now.
I thought he got kicked out/left?
You see, that was just what this site was missing. There have been political flamewars for a long time, now we can have flamewars over musical preference.
Now, this is the part where I say that rap isn’t music, that it sucks, sounds terrible, and that hip hop is essentially the same thing as rap. Then I go on to defend my favorite rock and metal bands.
Then, in your reply, you’ll accuse me of ignorance for equating rap and hip hop. Next, you’ll accuse me of having never actually listened to hip hop music, and then you may or may not name some artists who you like and tell me to listen to them before continuing.
My reply will attempt to refute your claims, and probably involve some some sort of personal attack relating to your mother.
And so on. It’s like a well oiled machine!
Just add GE with his well known human beat box skills, and you have the essence of a hip hop battle. You can bring the guitar and the amp.
Trent will bring the video camera and we’ll put Aerosmith to shame.
I’m not anti-JBS, by the way. I think they’re right-on on many issues. Just like the CP, but better (more intellectually consistent).
Also, opposition to immigration and support for conscripting private business owners into anti-immigrant police.
Opposition to free trade.
I have that NAU issue.
Ill tell you what GE…
Find me something in JBS’s publication “The New American” that is anti-libertarian.
The JBS most certainly would not reject the term. Their past editor was a big-L libertarian until his conversion to the CP, and claimed their were many other Big and little L libertarians there.
gizmodawc – You are the one being arrogant by ascribing libertarianism unilaterally to a group, the JBS, who does NOT call itself libertarian and fails to meet anyone’s definition of the term but your own.
If I thought “libertarianism,” as broadly defined, only dealt with money, then I’d be rejecting your assertion that Noam Chomsky (who preferred warmonger Hitlery Clinton to Ron Paul, btw) is a “libertarian.” I certainly do reject that he is, but he calls himself a libertarian-socialist, so fine.
The JBS does not call itself libertarian, and in fact, undoubtedly rejects the term, just as the CP does. The JBS is like the CP, not the LP. The CP does not call itself libertarian, nor does the JBS, and for good reason: THEY’RE NOT.
lol funny analogy. But didnt Garfield love lasagna? So would that be like convincing him to eat leave his favorite food….for a food that is similar in many ways…and even hand held?
hahaha
I feel like I’m in a bar where everyone knows each other….and I just walked in…sat down and began arguing with the regulars. lol
gizmodawc,
Telling GE he ought to “look into” anarcho-capitalism is like telling Garfield to “look into” pizza.
Alight G.E., I am through arguing with you about what it means to be a libertarian.
I have never claimed to define what it means, I am merely referencing those before me.
But if you want ..look up the dictionary definition
Libertarian n.
1. One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state.
2. One who believes in free will.
Yes, free trade is ONE of the many ways in which one implements individuals rights…but it is not the only.
Check your attitude. You do not need to get upset just becuase you want to believe that libertarianism =laissez faire economics…end of story. There is a little more to it than just money.
And IF money and free trade is your only focus…do your self a favor and look into anarcho-capitalism….it might better suit the political paradigm you want.
Nowhere in the above is the JBS saying it’s libertarian.
They do not say it because they are NOT libertarians.
Free trade IS the basis for libertarianism.
I hate the Bill of Rights, by the way.
You do not understand libertarianism. I’m sorry. You don’t get to define what libertarianism is. I’m not objecting to Noam Chomsky because he says he’s a libertarian. The JBS does not. Quit lying.
G.E.,
You are focusing way too much on free trade, as if it was the only basis of liberatarianism.
But you wanted a source, I have your source.
Robert Welch, who introduced the idea of JBS was quoted saying:
“both the Greek and the Roman civilizations did perish of the cancer of collectivism, and the civilization of Western Europe is doing so today.”
This article went on to say
“According to the JBS theory, liberals provide the cover for the gradual process of collectivism, therefore many liberals and their allies must actually be secret communist traitors whose ultimate goal is to replace the nations of western civilization with one-world socialist government.”
Read it yourself
http://www.publiceye.org/tooclose/jbs.html
The distinction has to be made between pro-free trade and pro-corpoartion. See fiscal liberatarians view corpoartions and their spread as supported by, and often synonymous with, the state. As they same time, they would view the state as heading toward unitary socialism..as stated above.
Look, I would love to continue this discourse, but if you’re going to make off-the-cuff remarks like how I should stick to hip hop. Then I will not continue. I have shown you respect, and I would ask the same.
Besides, if you don’t like debating with me….go back idolizing Ron Paul and plastering is his campaign stickers anywhere you feel people can see you support him….and beat off to the Bill of Rights. (See, I can make rude comments too)
Look how much political dialogue is on this story about hip hop. And who said hip hop and politics don’t mesh? hahaha
And Darolew, I will start the flame war. lol.
I have often equated the attacks on hip hop as being similar in nature to racism.
Now I will wait for you to finish rolling your eyes before I continue.
Racism, whether it is carried out by the model of violence as with the Klan etc, or the model of covert disdain like your average person who speaks lowly about others behind closed doors; still follows two principles:
1) Viewing other cultures as a monolith, and that “they all are the same”
For example: Often times, when an individual views somebody act in a way that they don’t not agree with….and that indivudal begins to say things like “THEY are all the same”…or “Those F***ing so-and-sos”
That’s racism. The inability to look at the individuals and their actions as individuals. But rather view one person’s actions as representive of a whole demographic constructed by society. And vice versa, where a stereotype of a societally constructed demographic is viewed to predict the actions of one person
2)That anything different from oneself, must be deficient from oneself.As a supplement, since anything different from oneself is deficient, that would mkae one superior.
For example: If an individual observes a culture vastly different then their own, and belittles it as lacking or deficient, thus procliams themself to be superior…that is racism.
Now lets back it back to music and relate them to these two principles
1) I will not go into the whole “you must not listen to REAL hip hop argument”…so don’t worry. But it is disheartening how many individuals will listen to corporate radio rap like Lil Wayne or Souljah Boy and feels as though it represents all of hip hop. And then from that moment forward have this pre-formed view of what hip hop is, and never expand their boundaries.
That’s like somebody listening to the widely popular Beach Boys…not liking it…and then claiming that they do not like rock music. In essence, totally and utterly casting out of the sub-genres that the music has to offer. From 70s metal a la Black Sabbath….to old school punk like Iggy Pop and the Stooges….to Black Metal such as Dimmu Borgir.
Imagine how disheartening it is, that have all of those sub-genres of music totally invalidated because somebody took their opinion of the Beach Boys and applied it to Rock music….like a musical stereotype.
2) Now let’s look at the other pirnciple of racism….superiority.
Claiming one’s musical tastes to be superior and anything else as garbage is very similar.
We all have lived very different lives, and had different experiences, that would lead us the enjoy artistic expressions very differently. The same way two people could look at a Jackson Pollack art piece. One hates it. The other lives it.
It is just a matter of taste, however, just becuase you don’t like the piece, doesn’t make it garbage.
One person who can fully understand and enjoy the abstract expression from Dream Theatre may not be able to fully grasp the poetic liquidity of Nas.
I can’t stand Panic! At the Disco. But I would not degrade it as crap….becuase to somebody else it…it is art. And though it cannot see it…I can respect it.
But this whole fad of “my music is great, your music blows” is indicative in most musical genres. You got the kid with a Megadeth t-shirt on screaming to high heaven that My Chemical Romance sucks. At the same time, that My Chemical Romance fan my say they call Cannibal Corpse complete shit becuase they can’t hear the words and don’t understand it.
It’s all relative. I swear my music collection is way too ecclectic….as if you couldn’t tell my some of references.
I’d like to see something where the JBS claims to be libertarian.
Wikipedia does not cut it.
“That is why right-wingers such as the John Birch Society, and far leftist like Noam Chomsky can both claim to adhere to liberatarism.”
But JBS does NOT claim to adhere to libertarianism.
Liberatarianism is a political model that supports civil liberties and freedoms, free trade, self governance, etc.
JBS does NOT support free trade. They support Lincolnian nationalist protectionism.
The John Birch Society is right about many things, but they are NOT libertarian. Period. They’re just not. Saying they’re are doesn’t make it so. Saying they say they are doesn’t make it true, either, because they DO NOT claim to be libertarian. In no way whatsoever are they libertarian.
You’re very knowledgeable on hip hop. Maybe you should stick to that, because you are WAY OFF BASE here.
Once again G.E., liberatarian ideals can take form in the political beliefs of people from all points in the political spectrum.
It all goes back to this idea I keep stressing…the dichtomy between principles and models.
Liberatarianism is a political model that supports civil liberties and freedoms, free trade, self governance, etc.
That is the model.
But see folks of all sorts of principles can adhere that the model liberatarianism to push foward their principles.
That is why right-wingers such as the John Birch Society, and far leftist like Noam Chomsky can both claim to adhere to liberatarism.
JBS may wish to adsolve the state and increase personal freedoms so that they might live the way they want to live, in compounds excluding everyone else, and practice their religious beliefs without a government raining in on them.
Oppositely, a liberatarian socialist may wish to absolve the state because it hinders the unity and communal nature of humans. Without a governmental body, people will everytually come together.
Too very different PRINCPLES….but that live under the wide spread umbrella of the MODEL of Liberatarianism
This is such a crucial topic…and the more I discuss….the more a feel I need to make it my thesis. lol
^Not that I’m saying JBS is actually indeed libertarian, but there is evidence they portray themselves to be.
“JBS is NOT libertarian, period. They wouldn’t claim to be.”
Wikipedia: “The John Birch Society claims to be anti-totalitarian, particularly anti-Socialist and anti-Communist, and to lean libertarian.”
The sentence isn’t cited though, but JBS website has in its description meta tag the following: “The John Birch Society is the organization of choice for all patriotic freedom and liberty loving Americans whether constitutionalist, independent, conservative, libertarian or Democrat or Republican.”
Are you argueing against him or me,GE?
I’d say there are CERTAINLY Libertarian elements to the JBS, as I pointed out–William Norman Grigg is one of their most well-known people right now.
“Your bad taste in music is noted.”
You see, that was just what this site was missing. There have been political flamewars for a long time, now we can have flamewars over musical preference.
Now, this is the part where I say that rap isn’t music, that it sucks, sounds terrible, and that hip hop is essentially the same thing as rap. Then I go on to defend my favorite rock and metal bands.
Then, in your reply, you’ll accuse me of ignorance for equating rap and hip hop. Next, you’ll accuse me of having never actually listened to hip hop music, and then you may or may not name some artists who you like and tell me to listen to them before continuing.
My reply will attempt to refute your claims, and probably involve some some sort of personal attack relating to your mother.
And so on. It’s like a well oiled machine!
John Birch Society is conservative, not libertarian. They’re not even for free trade. This is THE fundamental basis for classical liberalism, the forerunner of libertarianism. JBS is NOT libertarian, period. They wouldn’t claim to be. They’re conservative.
Libertarianism is against the state. JBS is not. You’re wrong.
Yes indeed G.E. I did mean John Birch. When I type that fast I make errors.
And yes I do view them as liberatarian. Remember, despite the fact that the “Liberatarian Party” choose a single candidate to represent their views. Liberatarianism a very wide spread and can represent left wing and right wing ideals, and everything in between.
One can be far left like a Liberatarian Socialist (like Noam Chomsky…or myself in many ways)…or one can be far right ( John Birch, Branch Davidians)…and it is still liberatarian.
Once again, it goes back to principles. All liberatarians belive in the phasing of government out of lives….but their reasons for doing so are vastly different.
Cannoli, thanks for the props. I did forget to mention that slumlord were paying kids 20 bucks or something to burn them down. Shit was messed up.
GE,
The John Birch Society certainly has some VERY libertarian elements. Their former editor, William Norman Grigg, writes the blog Pro Libertate.
He’s a Rockwell-style libertarian.
Not sure what the David Birch Society is, but if you mean John Birch, that group is not libertarian, but conservative. As far as I knew, the Branch Davidians were religious wacko/maybe-child molestors, and not libertarians. Ron Paul = 1 out of 3 ain’t good. As Paulie suggests, look into Mises and Rothbard if you care.
Hey, I enjoyed reading that, belatedly. Not news to me, but well written.
One little point about the burning of the South Bronx and some other neighborhoods: rent control laws made many tenaments unprofitable. Landlords paid arsonists so they could collect on insurance.
For an understanding of “capitalism” as GE or I use it see
http://mises.org/story/2099
Peter,
Did you know BET had the last two episode of the second season of Boondocks banned from Tv because they blatantly made fun of BET and Al Sharpton.
G.E.,
I apologize, that whole history thing was meant fot Trent Hill.
And yes, we do have very differing views of capitialism. And I am unsure of you notion that socialism in comformist….when those who claim socialist tendencies….but become comformed by corporate electoral politics…they become democrats.
The further from center you go in the political spectrum..the less conformist you inherently are.
But look, just for the sake of time…I really don’t wanna go into it. I have written so many aritcles about Ron Paul, the David Birch Society, the Branch Davidians….and other proclaimed liberatarian groups.
And I have writeen at length about how one must never confuse political standpoints with principles. Forexample, I may agree with a liberatarian about our views on corporations or the police state…but we have very different principles behind why we support the same stances. And because principles are far more important to me then mere political points, I could never work with a right-wing liberatarian.
Liberatarian socialist yes….not right wing. lol
But all good man….I support you and your views.
Why are you explaining this all to me? I’m not the one who was criticizing or belittling. I’ve been listening to hip hop for 21 years.
Our definitions of capitalism are not congruent, that I can assure you.
Hip hop is the most entrepreneurial of all music styles, as many early artists were businessmen as well. Some were black-market entrepreneurial heroes, supply the demand of castigated groups in defiance of interventionist law. I don’t think that can be properly stripped from hip hop and replaced with conformist socialism.
my bad cannoli…..i did not see that you had someone else’s quote in italics…my bad man.
Then i just wrote that whole piece to you in vain….hahaha.
It’s all good…other can learn from it..
each one teach one
Ok G.E., becuase of your curiosity, I will try and explain how hip hop and politics meet. And if you have patience to read all this, you may learn some really cool stuff.
Just like Gregg Jocoy quoted, everything is politics. But the history of hip hop is especially rooted in politics.
In the 1960s and 70s in the Bronx, there were vast irban redevelopment programs going on. One such program was the Cross-Bronx Expressway. The building of this expressway destroyed many neighborhoods, and displaced lots of folks. As if that wasn’t enough, since more and more people were leaving the South Bronx; the final (and most desparate) stage of real estate capitalism took form…ARSON. Everyday, a new apartment was being burnt to the ground by slumlords, to collect insurance on property they couldn’t fill with tennants.
The result….by the mid 70s….between “development” and arson…South Bronx was like a war zone in a third world country. And one must remember, kids were still living in this environment. And from the rubble, a phoenix of creativity was about the take form.
This rebirth did two major things
1) Show the beauty of improvisation and creativity….making something out of nothing
2) show the establishment that kids did have a voice….and would no longer be ignored.
I will break it down by each element of hip hop.
GRAFFITI: Graffiti has been around such Greco-Roman times, were even in ancient cities, citizens were etching words on building protesting leaders and politicians. Fast forward to the 1970s. The youth were ignored and felt they had no voice in society. But a little bit of spray paint changed that.
One popular place to “bomb” (bombing in the act of graffiti-izing something if you will) were trains. One pioneer in such was known as “Taki 183”, a kid whose name was Taki and lived on 183rd street.
Soon waves of youth were bombing trains, laying down “burners” (or graffiti art pieces) they were constantly getting more and more artful and intricate. The goal was get your name on as many trains as you, and eventually go “all-city”, or have your name travel on these trains all around town.
The beauty of going all-city is that, with the size of New York, and the impoverished conditioned these kids lived in, they may never go much further then their own neighborhoods in a lifetime…..but their art and their assumed names would….so they were part of something bigger then them.
Eventually, tagging come about; which is merely the quick spray painting of initials or a symbol….and no where near as artful as graffiti. And as pioneering tagger claimed, it wasn’t about art, it was merely about quantity…but thats a whole ‘nother story.
DJ-ING & MC-ING: I will put these two elements together because thats how they come about.
The first DJs did not DJ is the way we think of it today, with scratching and such. They merely played records. DJ Kool Herc is noted as the pioneer for the movement. In 1973, Herc took his turntable and some records, and decided to throw a neighborhood party. This party took place at the legendary rec center at the streets of Sedgwick and Cedar. Herc plugged his turntable into the streetlight, taking power from the city, and threw a party.
Soon these parties would grow and grow. And DJs become celebrities of a sort. And soon, people were asking DJs to shout out their name on the mic so that could seem cool to the crowd.
Eventually, DJs would have people on the mic hyping up the crowd, and shouting folks out…these were the first MCs. They started uses simple rhymes or phrases to keep the crowd hyped like this classic:
“Yes Yes Y’all, and you don’t stop. Yes Yes Y’all and you don’t quit”
As time went on, these MCs started using more rhymes, and become more complex. Eventually, becoming early forms of rap as we know it.
Going back to DJs now, there are two notable people in history. The first is Grand Wizard Theodore, who when his mom busted in his room to yell at him to turn his music down, put his hand on the record player and stopped the record, in essense “stratching” the record.
The next figure is Grand Master Flash, who is known for evolving the idea of focusing on the “breaks” of a song. See…there are really cool parts of a song that often do not last long enough. Flash took this idea, developed ways the play these breaks over and over so that the crowd could enjoy the cool part of the song for longer.
For example, in the beginning of the songs “Freak Out” by Le Chic, you have a dope ass bass line. But repeating it over and over, you have a cool beat….which later become well known with the song “Rapper’s Delight”…you know…”I say the hip hop…the hibby to the hibby..the hip hip hop…and you dont stop rockin….” well…you get it.
DJing and MCing were a way to create a whole new msuciall genre out of what the youth had access to. And since they couldn’t afford a guitar or drum kits…..they used the family turntable and took an old record….extended a break…and got a party rockin. And then emcees would join in and rock the show. This is improvisation at its finest.
B-BOYING (breakdancing): Finally lets cover breakdancing…..which you should now understand where it gets its name. By extended the break of a song….you have a repeated beat…would could be danced to. But to really understand b-boying…we have to look at gangs in New York (as non-sequitor as it sounds).
Due to the warzone-like conditions in the Bronx in the early 70s, gangs of youth were growing in numbers to protect neighborhoods. Unlike the image of gangs we see today, these gangs did good for the community. They would often run drug dealers out of their communities. They would beat up pimps. In some instances, they would even give out food to the community, and have doctors to provide free medical care to community residences (these social programs they implemented were very much continuing the social programs of the Black Panther Party…but that is a different story).
However, the gangs did result to violence against each other.
But with the advent of breakdancing, the youth often saw battling through dance as an alternative to physical violence. Because of this, many of the original b-boy troupes were comprised of gang members. They would battle on the dance floor and humiliate one another. And soon breakdancing skills became a display of dominance over other teams.
They found a creative new way to express themselves.
Now….let me catch my breath from all of this.
You may be asking yourself…”great history lesson, but what in the hell does this all have to do with politics?”
Well, as each of these elements progress and evolved. A 5th element was born. And as Afrika Bambaataa proclaimed…this 5th element was knowledge. Each of these artistic forms could be utilized to spread messages and become bigger then the artists themselves.
The improvisation of the youth and the evolution of these art forms would eventually be used to express the situations of their communities. Such social commentary came with the presidency of Ronald Reagan and his supply-side economics…which left the urban community behind. Poverty was rising, and people were desperate.
Graffiti was being used to make commentary such as the famous burner that took up 2 whole train cars proclaiming “All You See Is…Crime in the City”
The music also followed suit with such songs as “The Message” from Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five.
As time went on, Hip Hop, and all of its elements were used to express the feelings of society and urban plight.
The growth of politics in hip hop can best be gauged by looking at rap…since verbal expression is the easiest way to express politics.
In the late 80s, we had Public Enemy in New York knocking the establishment on its ass with their in-your-face political style…with such songs as “Fight the Power” and “911 is a joke”.
However, even with politics aside, the music became a way to express social conditions such as how N.W.A. express the violence and culture of South Central Los Angeles…with “Straight Outta Compton” or “Fuck tha Police”
Chuck D, emcee of Public Enemy even went so far as the call rap “Black America’s CNN”, since rap often covered the topics and issues being covered within the music.
Fast forward to 2003. There have been generations of people born from say 1960 on…who have been affected and influence by hip hop culture. This is the hip hop community.
This community is used to being ignored by the establishment, much like the youth in 1970s South Bronx…..so….they make their own politics.
Now, over the years, many political activist also grew up in and around hip hop culture…and identify themselves as part of the hip hop diaspora if you will.
In 2003, such activists came together with artists, educators, journalists, authors, and all sorts of people who identify with the hip hop community. And they decided it was time to push forth their own agenda, the agenda of the people to hip hop usually represents (people of color, and poor working class white). This agenda would address their needs and their positions. But to make such an agenda, they need to come together.
This is where the first National Hip Hop Political Convention came about in 2004. They hammered out.
Then in 2006, this agenda was expanded.
As it stands to today, the NHHPC agenda pushed forth our views on
1) Economic Justice
2) Criminal Justice
3) Education
4) Health and Wellness
5) Human Rights
6) Gender equality (including LGBTQ rights)
and even though we always defended these issues…will be adding
7) Media Justice
and
8) Environment
to the agenda.
Simply put Trent, the hip hop has never been represented in the political sphere despite being one of the most influential culture forces in centuries. But we don’t need politicians, we have made our own agenda…and the these polticians need to know what they must represent to get our support (or at least the support for those of us who believe in electoral politics…which many of us have lost faith completely).
We have always improvised…we have always done everything ourselves…and way stop with the political sphere. And like I said…even people born in 1960 have had hip hop influence their lives….so one day the day will come when these generations who grew up around hip hop will be in charge.
And just a note to G.E. on here….yes many people in hip hip are pro-indivdual…and anti-state…but do not assume that we are all pro-capitalism.
Yes….corporations have a choke hold on media from MTV to VH1 to Clear Channle owned radio….and the only hip hop artists presented on these stations are those who promote money, drugs, and mysogyny. But never ever…let these sell outs represent the whole hip hop community.
This whole pro-capitalism ideal in hip hop come about in the early 90s…but i wont go into that now.
Most true hip hop heads are very anti-capitalistic…..which goes back to the four elements. The youth expressed themselves not through corporate media or art galleries…but there own way…cheap…easy…and available.
And you ever say BET represents hip hop to someone truly in the community….you might get knocked out. Seriously. I would hit you for it…but some folks really would. We do not…and will never…support Black Enslavement Television.
Peave yall.
Let this sink in for a second. lol
I have…I’m from Uptown, NYC.
I grew up on it in the 1980s, and of course I was a teenage graffiti bomber.
Ok, I am new here, but I will try and do some of these questions some justice. And if you have any qulams about my credibility; I was one of the main organizers of this year’s convention.
Moving on. First addressing the degrading hip hop as crap. First off, rapping does not = hip hop. Rapping is merely one of the four elements of hip hop culutre along with Bboying, Graffiti, and Djing. So, it is not JUST the music that one should focus on.
Now….moving on the how it was degreded as “crap”. I find it interesting (and personally depressing), that even here at an indeprendent news website, we still have individuals who degrade and dismiss anything that are not prive too. It is so sad how often folks dismiss another culture without wholly understanding it.
Paulie Cannoli, I respect your opinion about the musical aspect of hip hop culture. But the beauty of hip hop comes from the fact that it was trash. Let this sink in for a second. lol
Everyone criticizes hip hop music for not utilizing actual bands (with the exception of various groups like The Roots, The Coup, or the Welfare Poets). Well, in the South Bronx, in the 70s, it was a little difficult to obtain the musicall instruments that suburban kids could afford.
What was available?
A turntable that was porbably owned by their parents, and some junk records. Hence, why I said hip hop, in a way could say it evolved from trash. These kids took albums from various musical styles, and threw it all together to make an ecletic cassarole of sound.
And still to this day, hip hop musicians are still the most knowlegable music fans….since they sample all types of music to make this cassarole. They are familiar with everything from James Brown to Led Zeppelin, from Sly and Family Stone, to Bob Segar, to Parliament , or Dead Kennedys.
Dismissing it as crap simply because YOU dont understand is a problem, and a problem you could very well apply to various areas in your life. Dismissing ohter culture is deficient just because they are different is ignorance at its zenith.
Now….let me start another post to relate hip hop politics….because G.E. was curious.
“The Hip Hop Community obviously sees politics as one means of protecting and advancing their community, much as many of you feel the same way and have turned to the Libertarian Party or the Green Party, etc.”
I believe this is incorrect, since it assumes the existence of a monolithic “Hip Hop Community” whose members all share the same political views. On the contrary, this seems to me to be an example of a small group of people who are looking to use hip hop music as a means of promoting their political agenda, much as some people use race or religion as a means of political proselytization. This often works because people are more likely to listen to someone that they share a common interest with, even if that common interest is only tangentially related to the topic at hand.
GE: My opinion of rap, Snoop D’s libertarianism or the Phish interpretation of Gin & Juice?
Certainly your opinion of or knowledge about hip hop, for starters.
I had no idea there was a whole community built around terrible music.
Your bad taste in music is noted.
G.E. I think you are wrong when you assert that Greens are one way or another. Most Greens in Michigan may well be exactly as you describe, but I don’t for a moment believe that Steffie Loveless is a “greying white Marxists”. Nor do I believe that correctly describes Greens in Detroit or the many Greens of Arab descent in Michigan.
Greens were dismissive of Jello Biafra when he ran for President in 2000, when we nominated Nader. Biafra is former lead singer for The Dead Kennedys” , and that alone was enough for some Greens to dismiss him. Likewise, there are Greens who didn’t want Patti Smith or the Beastie Boys as Green icons.
But that is SOME Greens. I adore some hip hop. Those who dismiss it are as wrong as those who believe RATM is nothing but crap, and that ATHF and Boondocks are non=political. Shit folks, EVERYTHING is political. Don’t believe me? Ask Lenny Bruce!
GE: My opinion of rap, Snoop D’s libertarianism or the Phish interpretation of Gin & Juice?
PEACE
Steve
I had no idea there was a whole community built around terrible music.
From the National Hip Hop Political Convention website:
The Hip Hop Community obviously sees politics as one means of protecting and advancing their community, much as many of you feel the same way and have turned to the Libertarian Party or the Green Party, etc.
Here’s a good example of Political Hip Hop, “Animal in Man” by Dead Prez:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubMQkPzc0Fs
Steve R. L. – You don’t know what you’re talking about.
I guess the basic premise is: music, and various creative expressions, can be an expression of politics. As well as good tunes.
So, you’re claiming that rap is music? And that it is “creative”? It all sounds the same. But then maybe I’m just too old to understand.
OTOH, Calvin Broadus, Jr. DOES have some very libertarian lyrics. He should have run for POTUS, as a Libertarian.
But, IMHO, when I hear the lyrics “my mind on my money and money on my mind” from “Gin & Juice”, it sounds soooo much better sung by Phish.
PEACE
Steve
There was a great clip on LRC a while back, in which Prodigy (from Mobb Deep) endorsed Ron Paul. The best part about it was that the guy interviewing him keep trying to steer him toward Obama, but Prodigy wasn’t having it. Click my name to watch it.
Actually, let me scrap that: Even today’s “not so good” rap music is very pro-entreprenurial. Who had that song, “Everywhere I go, people treat me like a criminal/ but I’m a CEO, I’m a self-employed professional” or something like that.
I think Jay-Z is a good example of everything I said in the post above: anti-state, pro-individual freedom, pro-capitalist, and even pro-sound money.
LRC has commented on that last point a few times.
Trent – From a lifetime of listening to rap music. Not the mock-worthy stuff on the radio today, mind you.
Just more laughable claptrap from the twitching corpse of the Greens. Please let this election put them and McKinney out of their misery. PLEASE!
Which hip-hop era are we talking about? The era of now or the old skool era, which was better.
Rakim: “I nominate Eric B, my DJ, for President”.
“I agree with you and think that libertarians should appeal to the hip hop community, which is anti-state, pro-individual freedom, pro-capitalist, and even pro-sound money!”
Where do you get this from GE?
Im not laughing at the McKinney campaign. I was/am genuinely interested in what Hip Hop Politics is…
BTW: I’m probably one of the few people who is undecided between McKinney and Baldwin.
I’m not laughing at McKinney-Clemente, but at the Green Party in general, which is about as un-hip hop as I could imagine.
Well, it’s really not terribly complicated.
You might go look at the websites set up by the NHHPC, or the locals. There well set up on MySpace and Facebook.
W wikipedia’s article is pretty informative.
I guess the basic premise is: music, and various creative expressions, can be an expression of politics. As well as good tunes.
Of course, you could just listen to the musicians associate with the NHHPC, liked Immortal Technique, etc, and figure it out that way. Myspace is a good place to listen to these various bands.
And the folks making the laughs abt McKinney/Clemente campaign are supporting who? No one, or some equally successful candidate.
There are so many more interesting things one could comment and critique the way Ms. McKinney has handled this campaign; and yet the comments are all parochial, school-yard slurs and name calling? Lame.
Milnes was absent for a few times. I was hoping he had finally succumbed to his depression and/or had been mauled by a bear during a nature retreat.
I have to agree with Mike Theodore. McKinney campaign is a joke. If she had chosen a libertarian man vp fusion ticket, she could have won. Instead, lucky to get 1%.
green in brooklyn, Are these millions of nonvoters going to change into voters & vote green? Minority constituencies, agreed?
Green – I agree with you and think that libertarians should appeal to the hip hop community, which is anti-state, pro-individual freedom, pro-capitalist, and even pro-sound money!
But no. The LP portrays itself as a “responsible” WASP cricket club instead.
You guys are totally clueless. This is a convention of 4-5,000 activists, journalists, producers, & hip hop artists, many of whom are multi platinum selling artists. In 2004 Rosa Clemente helped to organize the first hip hop convention, and their focus was on how to get the Democratic party to pay attention to their issues, or they would bolt. Well, not only are Cynthia and Rosa featured at this convention, but they are set to confirm a new political agenda and confirm that they will not be taken for granted by the Dems anymore.
Can you imagine the political force this could be in the Black and Latino communities ? (obviously not). This could be a major coup for the Green Party in expanding it’s outreach to two of the most powerful yet ignored constituencies in US politics, not to mention millions of nonvoters out there who are looking to someone that represents their values.
Eric B. IS President.
Rookie.
No seriously–can anyone tell me why Hip Hop is a political movement?
The hilarious thing is to think of all the greying white Marxists in the Green Party of Michigan with their hip hop ticket. They wouldn’t know Lil Wayne from Lil Abner.
Haven’t you guys ever heard of Eric B for President?
Rookies.
Clemente explained hip hop as some kind of political movement at the convention.
I’m sorry, this campaign is just a joke.
I did not know, still do not know, what the hell Hip Hop has to do with Politics…