David Nolan at Libertarian Party blog:
How do we Libertarians most effectively allocate our limited resources? Suppose you have $100 to contribute to aiding the cause of liberty. How should you spend that $100? One obvious answer is to donate it to the Libertarian Party – at the national, state or local level. Another is to contribute to the campaigns of Libertarian candidates you particularly favor. All of those options make sense.
Here’s one that doesn’t: contributing to the campaign of a Republican candidate who’s a sure loser, and will spend more than $100 for each vote he’s likely to receive.
Peter Schiff is a libertarian-leaning Republican who is in a three-way race for the GOP nomination for U.S. Senate. He received the support of only 3% of the delegates at the CT GOP state convention, and recent polls show him at 7%-13%. About 200,000 people are expected to vote in the GOP primary, which means that Schiff will receive 14,000 to 26,000 votes. He has currently raised about $3.3 million, so even if he gets 26,000 votes, he will have spent $127 per vote.
So, whatcha gonna do with that $100? Use it to support the Libertarian Party and its candidates, or buy a bit less than one vote for a losing candidate of another party? In my book, the answer is obvious.
“The fact is that burnout only occurs when you repeat the same types of things and expect a different result.”
Thomas Sippos forgets that we didn’t try all of the above (with what he mentioned) with the express goal of actually winning. We have too many eggs in the GOP, educational and paper candidacy baskets – also, there’s a dress code for candidates (hint: suit and tie).
We also didn’t do that at the current time in which we live.
And it’s great that we complain about how the system favors both major parties. How about we file criminal complaints when elections officials don’t do their job instead of civil ones? It might give them a real reason to be worried instead of a way to pay us off with our own money.
Mr. Milnes, so anything goes, rules be damned, the only thing that counts is winning at any cost.
Ron Paul failed to win the NV caucus because the event was shut down, not because he lacked support.
Rules, followed, are what separate civilized people from savages, criminals, thugs. Rethink your principles lest you wind up on the short end of the stick, as PLAS themselves are a tiny, yet pesky minority of a minority, the kind of troublemakers that are easily shipped off to a FEMA KAMP and turned into a few pounds of minerals.
The bottom line is he didnt win-in Nevada or any other primary including open primaries.
If he doesn’t have enough political juice to fend off such tactics, then he can’t win.
Ron Paul would have won the Nevada Caucuses if it were not for Sue Chicken Lowden, who is a political HO. I will mention she was not the only one who was involved when the Nevada Convention was shut down just about when Ron Paul was going to win Nevada. Maybe you need to research your facts. BTW. Sue Lowden got sent a nice condolence card for Losing the senate nomination. HAAA HAAA ROLF Karma catches up.
Thanks for a fine article, Dr. Phillies.
I appreciate it when people speak up and call bigotry for what it is: irrational and repugnant. I also appreciate the comment that the opposite of Libertarian is Republican Conservative.
Sharron is going to be too busy with the economy issue and bigger things. Yes, she is what she is, and supported by pro-life, again, this does not mean as I state she is going to push this agenda. I can be part of something my own self, that doesn’t mean I will force you my agenda. Of course Sharron busy looking at the bigger issues and you of course are looking at the small issues. That is what was a big problem in the LP party. The small little boys club issues.
Actually, on social liberty issues
“Family Values
Sharron Angle recognizes the traditional family as the foundation of America’s society. Sharron worked to pass the Constitutional Protection of Marriage Act in Nevada, which defines marriage as between one man and one woman. Sharron Angle has been endorsed by Family PAC Federal and Concerned Women for America.
Protection of Life
Sharron Angle believes all human life is precious, regardless of location, age, infirmity, or degree of dependence. Sharron has been endorsed by Phyllis Schlafly, Life and Liberty PAC, and Concerned Women for America.”
her web pages are quite conclusive, though you may find it useful to learn what the “Life and Liberty” PAC requires of its candidates before endorsing them, namely
“The right to life from conception to natural death is the foundation of all other rights, and Life & Liberty PAC works to support only candidates who are unequivocally committed in word and deed to the protection of all innocent life. ”
Politicians are often happy to say something else to individuals, especially if they think they are not being recorded. Her campaign web page is however quite unambiguous.
Did you actually investigate Sharron Angle, or like an idiot just listen to the News Media. I KNOW FIRST HAND. From what I understand she is NOT going to push her anti-abortion on other people. She can believe in her own self that is fine. She can share her views that is fine. But as long as she doesn’t push it on other people is which is the mess I got. AND NOT FROM the News Media that switches everything around. Just about from the Horses Mouth DIRECTLY. Not as a follower in the audience somewhere.
One thing I really love, I have gotten in between delivering messages to people( referring to someone else in particular) when I have told the people themselves to talk directly to that person to get information. But NOOO, instead what happens things get switch around, assumed and whatever works for that person to make them look bad. I got news for you. The only person that is going to look bad is the person making accusations without first investigating the real facts of things.
Me I go out and check the absolute fact first from the horses mouth. Of course if that person changes his mind I can’t help that. But at least as the old saying goes don’t assume, you make an A of yourself.
You don’t have a clue. Boy you really don’t have a clue. I am being very polite on this blog for words I would like to say.
Islamic is a radical religion for which they would have NO PROBLEM to CUT YOUR DAM HEAD OFF. First hand to someone too close to home I know DIED IN THAT 911 mess. To build that mosque is a slap in the face of the American people. Why don’t you move to Islam and see how quickly you will survive there. If WE THE PEOPLE don’t protect our own and this America was built on a Social Republic not Islamic views which will NOT stop there. You want to opinion-ate that I am not a libertarian. So be it. There is a time when not to let the line be crossed. Because if you give them an inch they will take a mile. If you don’t realize this, the you my good man is a SHEEPLE.
And for those who are curious where Islamophobia, Bushophilia, and the like leads:
Wikileaks, a real libertarian organization, gives us the following very strong video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kelmEZe8whI
It’s WikiLeaks’ Collateral Murder: U.S. Soldier Ethan McCord’s Eyewitness Story
It was tweeted Friday as # Fri, 13 Aug 2010 02:54:56 wikileaks: Iraq massacre eye-witness story (video) bit.ly/agov0I
Parts of the video have I gather been seen before, but this time there is an eyewitness to the event providing narration.
As an alternative response, please note that AntiWar dot com is now in a fund drive.
I support the LP platform language. Whether it’s “L” strictly speaking, it’s hard to say. I certainly find private bigotry and racism repugnant, but I would not support outlawing it on a public basis.
GP makes the mistake of confusing what Root and Hospers say with necessarily being Islamophobic, or more properly in favor of discriminating against the practice of Islam. They claim they are not anti-Islam. Unless some of us are mind readers, we can’t know whether they are or not.
Root and Hospers are off base on this matter, IMO. It’s poor positioning, poor politics, and can easily be viewed as aligning with demagogues of the right.
Being against a plank in the platform, however, is just that, and nothing more. Abolitionist Ls are against several current planks, too. I’m not crazy about several of them.
Isn’t this dead horse beaten already?
One more try:
To confused the IPR duplicate blocker, I am posting paragraph two before paragraph one, and giving you the title at the bottom:
There is of course a theme in American politics opposite to Libertarianism. It’s the modern Republican theme. 160 years ago, that theme was the Anti-Catholic position of the American Party, one of the forbearers of the modern Republican Party: In its bigoted view, Catholicism was the religion of the people then described as ‘the darker races of Europe’…the Irish and the Catholics. Two thirds of a century ago, a theme of bigotry was anti-Semitism, prejudice against the Jews, one of the Semitic peoples of the Middle East.
Our National (LP) Party Platforms over the years have been quite clear on this matter. The 2010 Platform includes “We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant… We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.”
Now a theme of conservative bigots is Islamophobia, prejudice against one of the other Semitic peoples of the Middle East. And on top of those themes, we must recall, was bigotry against African- Americans, Japanese, Chinese, Greeks, Hungarians, Poles…the list is long, and our newspaper only has so many pages.
Recently, Islamophobia has reared its ugly head within the ranks of our Libertarian Party. New York Islamites propose to build the Cordoba House, a modest (relative to the buildings around it) 13-story Islamic community center on Park Place in downtown Manhattan. The proposal, like almost everything in New York City, was controversial. Republican bigots like Newt Gingrich came out against the building. That controversy spread to the front page of the LP web pages and Independent Political Report An editorial drafted by Party interns came out in favor of the right of the supporters of this private project to proceed.
And then several of our allegedly libertarian National Party leading lights decided to sound off on the matter.
Wayne Root, posting at Root For America, gave a long message reading in small part: “The answer is simple for a common sense American- I support religious freedom, as all Americans should. But this is not a case of religious freedom. This proposed building of a mosque on hallowed ground is an ATROSITY towards America. It is an offense to build a mosque in that location- an offense to all Americans (including Muslim Americans), all Christians and Jews, all relatives of 3000 dead heroes at the World Trade Center.
[Mr. Root has since given us far more anti-libertarian thoughts, of which more on another post.]
Former Presidential candidate John Hospers, appearing on Independent Political Report said, “So, too, the building of a mosque at the attack site where thousands of our own perished in an act of war – must not be allowed.”
To these two men I respond: Sorry, gentlemen, your positions are totally the opposite of Libertarian and everything our party represents. I’m sorry that you have so totally missed the point of the fundamental libertarian belief in personal liberty.
Islamophobia is an opposite of Libertarian
You will have to read the original article at LibertyForAll dot net or Liberty for America dot com , at least until the spam bucket is drained.
Found the spam block issue
Islamophobia is an opposite of Libertarian
Posted in Stand Up For Liberty by R Lee Wrights on August 11th, 2010
from LibertyforAll dot net
by George Phillies
Our National (LP) Party Platforms over the years have been quite clear on this matter. The 2010 Platform includes “We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant… We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.”
There is of course a theme in American politics opposite to Libertarianism. It’s the modern Republican theme. 160 years ago, that theme was the Anti-Catholic position of the American Party, one of the forbearers of the modern Republican Party: In its bigoted view, Catholicism was the religion of the people then described as ‘the darker races of Europe’…the Irish and the Catholics. Two thirds of a century ago, a theme of bigotry was anti-Semitism, prejudice against the Jews, one of the Semitic peoples of the Middle East.
Now a theme of conservative bigots is Islamophobia, prejudice against one of the other Semitic peoples of the Middle East. And on top of those themes, we must recall, was bigotry against African- Americans, Japanese, Chinese, Greeks, Hungarians, Poles…the list is long, and our newspaper only has so many pages.
Recently, Islamophobia has reared its ugly head within the ranks of our Libertarian Party. New York Islamites propose to build the Cordoba House, a modest (relative to the buildings around it) 13-story Islamic community center on Park Place in downtown Manhattan. The proposal, like almost everything in New York City, was controversial. Republican bigots like Newt Gingrich came out against the building. That controversy spread to the front page of LP dot org and IndependentPoliticalReport dot com. An editorial drafted by Party interns came out in favor of the right of the supporters of this private project to proceed.
And then several of our allegedly libertarian National Party leading lights decided to sound off on the matter.
Wayne Root, posting at RootForAmerica dot com, gave a long message reading in small part: “The answer is simple for a common sense American- I support religious freedom, as all Americans should. But this is not a case of religious freedom. This proposed building of a mosque on hallowed ground is an ATROSITY towards America. It is an offense to build a mosque in that location- an offense to all Americans (including Muslim Americans), all Christians and Jews, all relatives of 3000 dead heroes at the World Trade Center.
Former Presidential candidate John Hospers, appearing on IndependentPoliticalReport.com said, “So, too, the building of a mosque at the attack site where thousands of our own perished in an act of war – must not be allowed.”
To these two men I respond: Sorry, gentlemen, your positions are totally the opposite of Libertarian and everything our party represents. I’m sorry that you have so totally missed the point of the fundamental libertarian belief in personal liberty.
@135
Apparently my post answering with the article, which you can also read at LibertyForAll dot net, and in the current issue of LibertyforAmerica dot com, has lodged in the IPR spam bucket.
But here is what I said in answer to comments there:
It’s always good to see that a sound libertarian position brings out the Republicans.
And for people unclear about Republican Conservatism, the philosophy of hatred, and where it sits on the Nolan Chart
http://www.LibertyForAmerica.com/phillieschart.gif
The claim that because the folks flew into the pentagon were Islamites means that we should ban mosque-building is up there with the proposal that because almost all American slaveholders were Christians, we should ban Christian churches from the United States.
Incidentally, the revived worship of the Aesir and the Vanir has a quite impressive number of followers in America, because real Americans believe in freedom of religion.
let’s be positive:
There was always a problem about how to label the bottom of the Nolan Chart, because America didn’t used to have a lot of people like that. Or if we did, they hid under their rocks. Thanks to George Bush, we have an answer. The opposite of Libertarian is Republican Conservative. The opposite of Michael Badnarik and Harry Browne is George Bush, Dick Cheney, and of course their torture-protecting Secretary of Defense and CIA Directors, whose names will not be reproduced lest they pollute your monitor screens.
See, Republicans are good for something.
However, I am delighted to see Republicans cheering against gay marriage, abortion, birth control, re-legalization, or the firm certitude that there is global warming, because the younger generation knows that you Republicans are totally wrong about everything. Go ahead, please do continue committing political suicide.
By the way, there already is a real mosque within a block or so of the location Republican hatemongers like Mr. Krauthammer are whining about.
@135
Try again to post
Islamophobia is an opposite of Libertarian
Our National (LP) Party Platforms over the years have been quite clear on this matter. The 2010 Platform includes “We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant… We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.”
There is of course a theme in American politics opposite to Libertarianism. It’s the modern Republican theme. 160 years ago, that theme was the Anti-Catholic position of the American Party, one of the forbearers of the modern Republican Party: In its bigoted view, Catholicism was the religion of the people then described as ‘the darker races of Europe’…the Irish and the Catholics. Two thirds of a century ago, a theme of bigotry was anti-Semitism, prejudice against the Jews, one of the Semitic peoples of the Middle East.
Now a theme of conservative bigots is Islamophobia, prejudice against one of the other Semitic peoples of the Middle East. And on top of those themes, we must recall, was bigotry against African- Americans, Japanese, Chinese, Greeks, Hungarians, Poles…the list is long, and our newspaper only has so many pages.
Recently, Islamophobia has reared its ugly head within the ranks of our Libertarian Party. New York Islamites propose to build the Cordoba House, a modest (relative to the buildings around it) 13-story Islamic community center on Park Place in downtown Manhattan. The proposal, like almost everything in New York City, was controversial. Republican bigots like Newt Gingrich came out against the building. That controversy spread to the front page of LP.org and IndependentPoliticalReport.com. An editorial drafted by Party interns came out in favor of the right of the supporters of this private project to proceed.
And then several of our allegedly libertarian National Party leading lights decided to sound off on the matter.
Wayne Root, posting at RootForAmerica.com, gave a long message reading in small part: “The answer is simple for a common sense American- I support religious freedom, as all Americans should. But this is not a case of religious freedom. This proposed building of a mosque on hallowed ground is an ATROSITY towards America. It is an offense to build a mosque in that location- an offense to all Americans (including Muslim Americans), all Christians and Jews, all relatives of 3000 dead heroes at the World Trade Center.
Former Presidential candidate John Hospers, appearing on IndependentPoliticalReport.com said, “So, too, the building of a mosque at the attack site where thousands of our own perished in an act of war – must not be allowed.”
To these two men I respond: Sorry, gentlemen, your positions are totally the opposite of Libertarian and everything our party represents. I’m sorry that you have so totally missed the point of the fundamental libertarian belief in personal liberty.
So what I originally write fot Liberty for America was:
Islamophobia is an opposite of Libertarian
Posted in Stand Up For Liberty by R Lee Wrights on August 11th, 2010
by George Phillies
Our National (LP) Party Platforms over the years have been quite clear on this matter. The 2010 Platform includes “We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant… We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.”
There is of course a theme in American politics opposite to Libertarianism. It’s the modern Republican theme. 160 years ago, that theme was the Anti-Catholic position of the American Party, one of the forbearers of the modern Republican Party: In its bigoted view, Catholicism was the religion of the people then described as ‘the darker races of Europe’…the Irish and the Catholics. Two thirds of a century ago, a theme of bigotry was anti-Semitism, prejudice against the Jews, one of the Semitic peoples of the Middle East.
Now a theme of conservative bigots is Islamophobia, prejudice against one of the other Semitic peoples of the Middle East. And on top of those themes, we must recall, was bigotry against African- Americans, Japanese, Chinese, Greeks, Hungarians, Poles…the list is long, and our newspaper only has so many pages.
Recently, Islamophobia has reared its ugly head within the ranks of our Libertarian Party. New York Islamites propose to build the Cordoba House, a modest (relative to the buildings around it) 13-story Islamic community center on Park Place in downtown Manhattan. The proposal, like almost everything in New York City, was controversial. Republican bigots like Newt Gingrich came out against the building. That controversy spread to the front page of LP.org and IndependentPoliticalReport.com. An editorial drafted by Party interns came out in favor of the right of the supporters of this private project to proceed.
And then several of our allegedly libertarian National Party leading lights decided to sound off on the matter.
Wayne Root, posting at RootForAmerica.com, gave a long message reading in small part: “The answer is simple for a common sense American- I support religious freedom, as all Americans should. But this is not a case of religious freedom. This proposed building of a mosque on hallowed ground is an ATROSITY towards America. It is an offense to build a mosque in that location- an offense to all Americans (including Muslim Americans), all Christians and Jews, all relatives of 3000 dead heroes at the World Trade Center.
Former Presidential candidate John Hospers, appearing on IndependentPoliticalReport.com said, “So, too, the building of a mosque at the attack site where thousands of our own perished in an act of war – must not be allowed.”
To these two men I respond: Sorry, gentlemen, your positions are totally the opposite of Libertarian and everything our party represents. I’m sorry that you have so totally missed the point of the fundamental libertarian belief in personal liberty.
It is wise what you are doing. To ask to see this.
If you are not a radical and you don’t agree with their side, you do get attacked. Thing get changed around to make the other person who is not a radical look bad and they have a tendency to gain up on you. This part is true.
Cheezus Bruce did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today or what? Take a chill pill for gawd’s sake.
I’d, like to read what Dr. Phillies wrote. Does someone have a link?
Bruce, you’re hilarious! You actually copyright your posts????
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Islamophobia is an opposite of Libertarian
by George Phillies was posted at the San Diego, California LP’s Discussion Group on Yahoo. August 12 of this year.
My response, I’ll just put right in here verbatim:
Of course, Mister Phillies is another so-called ‘Libertarian’ of the [poison activist] ilk…
The kind who are jealous of those who are more politically successful and effective.
The kind who try to sabotage the efforts of others.
The kind who badmouth folks they aren’t friends of.
The kind who lie and engage in the politics of reputation destruction and, and, and…
Libertarian is as Libertarian DOES!
Mister Phillies, and the other above mentioned folks like to ‘move the goalposts’ and redefine who and what are Libertarian for their own personal agendas.
Non-Libertarians, including Anarchists and Democrats, and yes Martha, even Republicans, (gasp) who are here because nobody else will take them or talk to ’em…
There is nothing Islamophobic about discussing the impact to a neighborhood of certain kinds of businesses.
You aren’t a ‘McDonaldphobe’ if you decide having a McDonalds in your neighborhood might spoil the character of it, or change the traffic for the worse, or put extra load and expense on infrastructure…
And the New Yorkers who don’t want to have to hear the Mezzuzin’s (sp!) call many times a day, have a right to express their opinion.
As do the commuters who’s day would certainly
made more tough if they had to commute past
a SuperMosque.
Yeah, Phillies is jealous of Root…
And has to ‘blow out another’s candle so his appears to burn brighter’.
You notice these guys actually have nothing to say worthwhile of their own.
No original ideas whatsoever.
They have to bash Wayne because they are out of the spotlight and Wayne… He’s in it.
I have a suggestion…
Instead of folks attacking hard, effective workers like me and Wayne, how about you complainers all just go DO something FOR freedom.
It’s pretty hard to make the case stick that I am
hurting freedom or the LP if left alone, and the
same goes for Wayne.
How about you Nastytarians […edit…] go ahead and do your own thing?
We have a country to save.
(Thank you Larry Elder.)
And frankly, folks like George Phillies seem to be getting in the way. More than ever.
Copyright August 2010, Bruce Cohen
The thing that has bugged me for years about this is that the senior management at Enron was charged and tried for their misdeeds but so far we have not found the fortitude to try those in the Bush Administration who lied and led us into this far greater crime.
Strong stuff. It needs to be on the national website.
And if you are wondering what the Bush-Obama war on Iraq is doing, and why supporting Republicans should be completely unacceptable to real libertarians, try watching
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kelmEZe8whI
It’s more than a bit graphic.
paulie, ok. I’ll call you.
RM,
Thanks for the offer.
My current adress is once again short term.
You can ship by greyhound bus to Buffalo, NY, I don’t think that would cost much and it gets there the same day.
er, I meant “done,” not “doing.”
Bob,
We’ve been through this before:
How is it easier for you to get it to me and me to get it to Paulie than it is for you to just get it to Paulie? His address is just as unreliable and shakey and temporary for me as it is for you.
The only time I see Paulie is at national LP events … and I’m doing with national LP events.
Tom, how about if I send it to you? You can tinker with it if you want; get it to paulie. & I can try to barter it for a solar panel or get a donation for it.
paulie’s address sounded unreliable-too shakey & temporary.
Bob,
If your “TinyBook’s” BIOS allows it to boot from a flash drive, then there are some OSes which can install to and boot from a flash drive.
I don’t know offhand whether or not any versions of Windoze will fit on/boot-operate from an external flash drive.
You should consider trying Jolicloud (jolicloud.com). Unlike Windoze it is a real operating system (a netbook-optimized version of Ubuntu Linux). It supports 3G and will probably run 3-4 times as fast as XP on your machine.
RC for what it is worth the “state” has never and probably never will be omnipotent but it is pretty clumsy. The press is full of such stories.
I think you worry about nothing.
It also has one of those small 4 sided ports-I forget what they are called. Nifty for connecting to gadgets like digital camera.
I just checked. It has 2 usb but even if it only had one a hub would probably work.
It also has an ethernet port & sd-mmc port.
Tom see 102. I told you paulie was having computer problems.
Question: can a flashdrive be used as a windows xp or other os which has drivers for 3g to make TinyBook 3g compatible?
Bob C,
Do you have any evidence at all for the proposition that “the absolutism which undergirds the SoP” has ever, in any way, negatively affected the LP’s ability to win elections or affect policy?
To me, that assertion is the WTC-7 of the anti-absolutist conspiracy theory. It seems like there ought to be some “there” there, but none of its advocates ever seem to be able to actually produce it.
IMHO
” I believe in God, the omnipotent Father…”
Margaret Thatcher on Freedom « Freedomvoice!
Feb 23, 2007… power resides at the centre with an all knowing, omnipotent state. … Economic freedom works because it is in tune with human nature. …
freedomvoice.wordpress.com/2007/…/margaret-thatcher-on-freedom/ – Cached
???? ?????? ???.RUSSIAN LIBERAL MANIFESTO
Almost all through the XX century Russians lived under the domination of the omnipotent state, and the habit of expecting all possible benefits from it, …
http://www.sps.ru/?id=29194&PHPSESSID... – CachedTotalitarian and authoritarian regimes in Europe: legacies and … – Google Books Result
Jerzy W. Borejsza, Klaus Ziemer, Magdalena Hu?as – 2006 – Political Science – 607 pages
… government.21′ According to Mlynarski, totalism involved the absorption of more and more aspects of life within the sphere of the ‘omnipotent’ state. …
books.google.com/books?isbn=1571816410…Islamic Fundamentalism
… was indifferent if not outright hostile towards the state, Islamic fundamentalism is an ideology dedicated to the formation of an omnipotent state. …
internationalist-perspective.org/IP/ip…/ip_15_islamic.html – Cached – Similar
The Catholic encyclopedia: an international work of reference on … – Google Books Result
Charles George Herbermann – 1913 – Theology
… since it makes the absurd claim that the State is the original source of all right, and sets the omnipotent State in the place of God (cf. Syllab. …
books.google.com/books?id=X2kQAAAAIAAJ…
Preparing a ‘Decisive Blow’ to the PKK, Ankara – Central Asia …
Jul 5, 2010… and remains axiomatic that the absence of an omnipotent state regimenting society would inevitably invite disintegration. …
http://www.silkroadstudies.org/new/inside/turkey/2010/100705A.html – Cached
Seeing like a state: how certain schemes to improve the human … – Google Books Result
James C. Scott – 1998 – Political Science – 445 pages
It was under communist . . . auspices that the audacious dream of modernity, freed from obstacles by the merciless and omnipotent state, was pushed to its …
books.google.com/books?isbn=0300078153…
Russia’s Search for an Identity – Carnegie Endowment for …
Nov 3, 2009 … Ruling elites today are no longer ferocious; rather, they are seen as greedy and self-serving, but the model of the omnipotent state and the …
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id...
The Neo-idealist Political Theory; Its Continuity …
intended as defense of the omnipotent state or glorification of English national power. … sarily mean an omnipotent state and a subjected individual. …
http://www.jstor.org/stable/1949193 – SimilarSSRN-Financial Crisis Resolution – The State as a Lender of Last …
Oct 8, 2009 … Neither the model of an omnipotent state nor that of a welfare-maximising state seems appropriate. We propose a model of a contractual state …
papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1484151Foreign Investors: Listen to Putin’s Renault Threat — Seeking Alpha
Oct 4, 2009 … “We understand how deceptive blind faith in an omnipotent state is, how illusory are the hopes that total intervention in economic life …
seekingalpha.com › Emerging Markets Stocks › Autos – Cached – Similar
Dr. Sanity: THE NARCISSISTIC SYNTHESIS – Sometimes, You Get What …
May 16, 2006 … By the time the child has grown up, they have little ambition but to do the will of the omnipotent state and/or Allah. …
drsanity.blogspot.com/…/narcissistic-synthesis-sometimes-you.html – Cached – Similar
The Reach of the State: Sketches of the Chinese Body Politic – Google Books Result
Vivienne Shue – 1990 – History – 192 pages
“Totalitarian” assumptions about the omniscient and omnipotent state have yielded to messier descriptions of intra- bureaucratic politics and inconclusive …
books.google.com/books?isbn=0804718040…
Economic Development in Shanghai and the Role of the State — Urban …
by LY Zhang – 2003 – Cited by 23 – Related articles
… in Shanghai need to be revised: beneath the façade of a proactive and omnipotent state are numerous instances of failure and ineffectiveness. …
usj.sagepub.com/content/40/8/1549
TheCatholicThing.org
… Hobbes’ seventeenth-century political treatise Leviathan, which laid the ideological foundation for the omnipotent state, is popular reading these days. …
http://www.thecatholicthing.org/home.html –
paulie, the thing is so small-7″ screen- it should be no problem to carry that + your other one too. See if the battery chargers are interchangeable. Otherwise you’ll need both chargers.
I can throw in a couple of flashdrives. & it is able to hold a memory card. 4gb.
I bought TinyBook from 7th Avenue for about 200 shop now pay later approved credit.
e.g. A 50 watt Duracell solar panel Lowe’s online-@325.
paulie, I recently emailed TK & mentioned that you had commented mentioning you had computer problems.
I still have the TinyBook. It is gathering dust in a cabinet while I continue to make monthly payments on it.
I’m spoiled with 3G looking forward to the covered 4G area to make that worthwhile.
I’d like to barter it for a solar panel.
Failing that if you want it, let me know.
Anybody able to help me with a donation? & I’ll send paulie the TinyBook.
http://www.milnes2008.freeservers.com/
RC, you are probably right about “state” and let’s not forget that most public school grads have no idea what “omnipotent” means.
Still, the SOP is a very handy outline around which to build an introductory speech on Libertarianism – just use words the audience can comprehend!
I’d like to see some effort to soundly double membership (not with fluffy members like resulted from Operation Archimedes) to see if that would lead to more functional local groups.
415-690-6352 for my ideas on that. Computer problems lately, not sure how long I can stay on.
around, I dunno. I suspect the whole term is incomprehensible to the vast majority, who think “state” is DE or MT…for starters. It’s not so much the one term but the absolutism that undergirds the SoP and what some believe is THE L philosophy. The bar is very high for a 3rd party to break through as it is!
gb, that’s one way to look at it. Another would be to note that the ratio of conventioneers:votes is highest for the LP, or the conventioneers-to-voters leverage the Rs and Ds have is awesome.
RC @ 98 – tens of thousands of people attend the Republican National Convention – perhaps 3000 as delegates. Similar or larger numbers attend the Democratic National Convention.
12,000 people attended the Rally for the Republic. So the small numbers who attend Libertarian conventions are a cause for concern, as are the small numbers who attend local meetings, and the small numbers who vote for our candidates.
Why are potential members turned off by “reject the cult of the omnipotent state?”
Isn’t “cult” a good way to describe those who believe the government should involve itself in every problem known to man because it is uniquely capable of solving the problem?
around, for starters, the SoP and its 7/8ths protection, and the pledge.
How many attend conventions I’m less troubled by. How many attend the R or D conventions? How many attended the Rally for the Republic? Conventions are just one of many things parties do, and the numbers are not necessarily indicative of much, near as I can tell.
I’m more interested in positive movement. Falling on our swords over language like the “cult of the omnipotent state” seems contra-indicated to me.
Mr. Capozzi #92: Care to relate what those mistakes were in the founding of the LP?
Maybe we need to live with the idea that the LP is a product that is/will be soundly rejected in the electoral marketplace no matter what we do.
I’d like to see some effort to soundly double membership (not with fluffy members like resulted from Operation Archimedes) to see if that would lead to more functional local groups.
Discouraging note: one of those Sunday newspaper magazines came to hand during a recent vacation. An article caught my eye regarding some obscure hobby of collecting
bits of glass found on the beach that had been rounded and scoured by the sea. Obscure, yes?
Who cares about polished Coke bottle glass?
Well, the Sea Glass Collectors got 5,000 (yes, five thousand) people to attend their last annual convention! Five times what we got in St. Louis.
Yet which one should have more impact on the future of the American nation and its economy?
PLAS, yeah… that will work.
In my opinion Tom has burnout because he is a radical & their obstinance will lead to burnout if they put enough energy in.
+ the fact that I have offered a solution to two radical problems that they refuse to try.
1. It is well known that Tom took on the Root problem long ago. It is not being solved; in fact it is getting eworse. >burnout.
Solution: Peer Review Group.
2. Electoral failure. Tom has suggested reaching out to the left. Libertarians arent doing that. Libertarian candidates have no chance of winning unless they do.
Solution PLAS.
Consider a few of their reasons:
ANtireason: Failure to learn what the words mean befere using them:
# Minkowski space is predicated on the idea of four-dimensional vectors of which one component is time. However, one of the properties of a vector space is that every vector have an inverse. Time cannot be a vector because it has no inverse.
Hello? You started by saying time was a component, now you are making it a vector.
By the way, some Christians do believe that time vectors have inverses; they’re called BC and AD.
Claim
# It is impossible to perform an experiment to determine whether Einstein’s theory of relativity is correct, or the older Lorentz aether theory is correct. Believing one over the other is a matter of faith.
Actuality: The difference is the twin paradox. That’s a direct measurement and has been for almost 40 years. You put a clock in an airplane,a really good clock, and when it comes back it has run behind the equally good clock you left on the ground.
# In Genesis 1:6-8, we are told that one of God’s first creations was a firmament in the heavens. This likely refers to the creation of the luminiferous aether.
OK, does this appear to be an argument based on reason? By the way ‘firmament’ in the original has a fairly precise meaning, its that starry thing you can see looking up at night, at least in some parts of the USA.
I could go on, but the rationales presented on conservapedia make every poster on this group look like Einstein.
@83
Though I would not urge you to waste you time checking, it is in fact a “Christian Right”, i.e., Republican authoritarian, site, not a conservative site.
However. it calls itself ‘conservative’.
See (I am about to put it up http://libertyforamerica.com/phillieschart.gif)
Design courtesy James Oaksun.
ts, due respect, but I’m not seeing an n.s. on my part. It may well be for you that supporting the LP is a waste in your opinion. All marketing involves “waste”, some say half of it’s a waste. Discerning WHICH half is generally unknowable.
I do believe I’ve made myself clear that there were mistakes made in the founding of the LP that lower the likelihood of success on a lot of levels. IMO, those mistakes have hampered the LP as both a vendor of ideas through elections and in electoral outcomes.
But these are all just opinions, and my part and yours. That’s all.
Enjoy the ride.
re Concerned Libertarian @ 76.
I’ll probably piss off some people but one the LP’s problems is that we have a lack of people who have experience in retail sales. Theory is fine but it has to be explained and many of the people in the LP that I have come across in 30 years have poor people skills. Give us thirty women who have worked somewhere selling cosmetics and we’d be a lot better off.
There were a number of things that were tried and were successful to some degree but were dropped. They need to be polished and tried again.
As to my experience, I have maintained that we need internal communications and unable to get anyone else who had better skills to take up the job I volunteered to edit the state news letter a couple of years ago. So far from what I am told we have added a few new members and at the same time the news letter pays for itself. In fact I was kinda humbled the last time I heard the numbers.
We doin’ good! It works. try it!
ts: I never said the LP’s problem was a lack of money.
Capozzi: “Yet you call for abandonment as a means of resource conservation.”
You’ve made a non sequitur.
If I suggest that you stop pouring gasoline down a sewer to run your car, it doesn’t follow that if only you had more gas to pour into the sewer, your car would run.
Pouring resources into the LP is a waste. It does not follow that pouring more resources would transform that waste into gold.
ts: I never said the LP’s problem was a lack of money.
me: Yet you call for abandonment as a means of resource conservation.
Could be that the best dollars spent on candidates who can articulate L solutions to current social and political challenges. It’s really hard to say what is “most” effective, and near as I can tell, the marketplace of ideas, including their communication, will evolve as it will.
Ideas to be co-opted generally become popular when they are expressed at a retail, street-level in some form. Else they don’t become popular except, perhaps, among the intellectual and chattering classes.
Purely contemplative exercises have their place, as do practical exercises in implementation.
I never said the LP’s problem was a lack of money.
The LP’s problem is that of all third parties: our system is structured to maintain the two party system.
It’s not just the election laws. The two big parties stand for nothing, so they can always co-opt popular ideas from third parties, and run on those ideas.
Voters prefer voting for a major party that can win, over a third party with the same idea.
Concerned Lib,
You write:
“The fact is that burnout only occurs when you repeat the same types of things and expect a different result. ”
When I repeat the same things, I don’t expect different results (although I do sometimes get them, unfortunately).
Yet I am, at least to some degree, burned out.
QED, that is not the only condition under which burnout occurs.
ts: The only thing that hasn’t been tried is shutting down the LP entirely, state and national, so it won’t drain resources from the greater freedom movement.
me: Some states HAVE gone dormant in the past, so that’s been “tried.” You could make the case that “shutting down” other LM orgs might “help” the LP, although it’s not obvious that would work. They claim different dollars, for one thing…some tax deductible, some not.
You also assume that the LP’s lack of success is a money problem. While it could use more money and resources, I don’t buy your premise. It’s a philosophical, organizational and foundational dysfunction that needs to be addressed.
Concerned Lib: “The fact is that burnout only occurs when you repeat the same types of things and expect a different result.”
Is this supposed to be profound? Original? A witty blow against any particular LP faction?
The fact is, the LP has already tired everything that’s currently being suggested by any and all factions.
Another fact is, members of every faction have, over the decades, at one time or another opined: “…when you repeat the same types of things and expect a different result.”
Yet you’re guilty of your own fallacy. You’re repeating the mantra “…when you repeat the same types of things and expect a different result.” yet you expect a different result.
If this mantra, which has been repeated by every LP faction over the decades, has not had any positive effect, what makes you think that repeating it yet again would yield a different result?
There are no new libertarian “solutions” under the sun. Run a celebrity. Focus on local races. Focus on presidential races. Recruit youth. Recruit women. Focus on elections. Focus on education. Reach out to the right. Reach out to the left.
It’s all be suggested and tried, again and again. The only thing that hasn’t been tried is shutting down the LP entirely, state and national, so it won’t drain resources from the greater freedom movement.
If anyone wants to try something new, so we might get a different result, then shutting down the LP seems to be the best bet.
concerned: …does anyone have any constructive ideas?
me: Yes, the LP could use a constitutional convention of its own. Our Articles of Confederation are not working out, leading to incessant squabbling about who is L and who isn’t, what THE L position is and what it isn’t, what the purpose of the LP and what it isn’t. The Bylaws and SoP are kindling for this flaming dysfunction, IMO.
We need a blank sheet of paper if we really want to harmonize a liberty-oriented party.
gp, care to rephrase? You’ve pointed us to a conservative website, not a R one, yet you indicate this is R philosophy as contrasted with conservative (among others) opinion.
You might consider explaining why these conservative views are “antireason” to the non-physics experts in the room.
Meanwhile, for more evidence that the Republican philosophy of antireason is the opposite of libertarian, liberal, conservative, or in some opinions even sane, consider
http://conservapedia.com/Counterexamples_to_Relativity
around: …electoral politics will be viable when a critical mass exists for the ideals of individual liberty.
me: Likely so. The $64K question is How to facilitate the development of such a “critical mass”? It seems to me people learn through a process of contemplation and practice, contemplation and practice, etc. Contemplation only makes it difficult to see ideas manifest in the world. Practice only leads to expediency without a sense of direction.
Knapp #75: electoral politics will be viable when a critical mass exists for the ideals of individual liberty. We are nowhere near there yet and probably won’t be for several generations (if then). Until groups like Students for Liberty can awaken and energize today’s college students, the “something for nothing” entitlement will continue to rule the electorate until it cannot be fiscally sustained. Nolan thought the LP might be able to use the soapbox afforded politcal parties to “spread the good word” and, sometimes, win an election or two.
The LP’s focus today is first on trying to win elections.
Islamic Centers, in Chula Vista [California] it is on Third Avenue just north of Palomar.
If you yell out ‘where’s my ham sandwich?’ the entire congregation [including the women and children in folding chair just out side of the door on the parking lot] breaks out laughing.
And if you follow up with ‘and put some cheese on that!’ they just laugh louder.
And if you don’t speak up, the guy in a dress, er, ah, um, disdasher, will put dressing on your salad!
tk, totally unrelated, but I asked a Muslim friend of mine and he says that in the US there are “Islamic Centers” throughout the country in major cities. They serve as mosques — places of prostration — as well as community centers.
A web search validated this for me.
tk, good luck with all that you do. If love is in your heart and peace and liberty is your intent, it HAS to work out. It’s all about the journey, not the destination.
Why do you believe agorism is your best path?
The LP sufferes from irredeemable bitching as evidenced here.
It also suffers from people who want to focus more on said bitching to and with libs than reaching out to the rest of the world, which is in fact ready to hear from us given the failures from both major parties.
The fact is that burnout only occurs when you repeat the same types of things and expect a different result.
And the only reason people have pissed away so much time and money with the Schiff campaign (and others), is that people bitching at and with other libs (or third parties) didn’t instead channel that energy into meeting and engaging someone else.
And it’s really amazing considering just how pissed off the GOP/Democrat casino has made everyone whenever a primary has just occured.
Now that I’ve made an attempt to put this back on topic, does anyone have any constructive ideas? Better yet, can someone please comment on a recent experience on how they’ve reached out?
Chuck,
I think I’ve explained it somewhat elsewhere, but I’ll go ahead and explain it again, and start with clearing the air on one particular matter:
I had already tentatively decided to at least reduce/minimize, and possibly end, my involvement with the LP even before the national convention. My decision has nothing to do with the conventions outcomes, e.g. platform or bylaws changes, who was elected to what, etc.
I’d characterize my decision as equal parts:
– Burnout;
– An ever-stronger belief that electoral politics is probably not a workable approach to decreasing the size, scope and power of the state;
– An ever-stronger belief that even if electoral politics is a viable approach, etc., the LP suffers from irremediable systemic/structural flaws which make it an unsuitable vehicle for same;
– A desire to devote more of my time and energy to other approaches and other vehicles, e.g. agorism and agitprop on behalf of agorism.
I’m not slamming my door on the way out of the LP (or even vowing to never return).
I have no criticisms to make of those who choose to remain involved with the LP.
I have no interest in delivering one of those lectures where I preach that I’ve “evolved” and that those of you who remain in the LP are so many chimpanzees to my homo erectus.
With respect to Lake’s claims, he might reasonably blame my past activities for this or that result that’s still playing out in the LP, but if I’m a pathogen I’m a pathogen that is not detectable in the patient’s bloodstream at the moment.
Regards,
Tom
gp: …we don’t have their $120,000+/year office, let alone a $6000+ a month information technology bill…
me: I seem to recall your running mate on the New Path slate for Treasurer (James Oaksun) was going to get to the bottom of the legacy expense structure. He was going to camp out down here in DC to do a top to bottom financial and operating review, and recommend restructuring as necessary. Any idea when we’ll see this report? Will it be released transparently to the membership, or will the LNC assess it first to determine whether any confidential and/or fiduciary information is best kept in Executive Session?
Tom Knapp wrote (@72):
Why?
Don,
For all practical purposes, Knapp is no longer in any way involved with “official Lib-dom.”
Still wrapping up a few loose ends — tomorrow night is my last meeting as chair of my county’s LP committee, for example — but I’ve shaken the dust of the LP off my ideological flip-flops and have now removed them and am slapping the soles together vigorously to remove any clinging particles.
Regards,
Knapp
jt: “If you want more Left-leaning libertarians in the LP, then recruit more; nobody is stopping you.”
[a] Duke
[b] REPUBLICAN Trent Hill
[c] Eric Dumbo
[d] an army of ‘Libs’ whom stumble and bumble thru life acting not only like GOP, but also like neocons.
As for [Spin] Doctor Phillies, this is the sharpie whom spouts off with unjustifiable insanities like ‘LP is the only 21 st Century American Peace Party’ (or words to that affect …….).
It is VERY difficult to interest centrists and lefties (what ever those terms mean) in official Lib -dom. And Phillies [and paulie and Knapp] are part of the problem not the solution!
And something else:
Liberty for America has associated with it the Liberty for America PAC, previously the Liberty Congressional PAC, that actually supports Libertarian candidates. We’re launching a new fund drive to do something that the LNC does not, namely *support Libertarian candidates*. We don’t yet have the LNC’s income, but on the other hand we don’t have their $120,000+/year office, let alone a $6000+ a month information technology bill, either. You can read about the PAC at Liberty for America dot com.
KK wants me to do something else.
OK, the newest issue of Liberty for America Magazine is out. You can read it at LibertyForAmerica.com . Table of contents
Big Project #1—Raise Money
Bigger Project #2 — Libertarian News
Free Trifold for Electronic Subscribers
Libertarian Political News
Let’s Go Maverick — Tennessee Candidates
Islamophobia Is An Opposite of Libertarian
Where Your Money Went: LNC —Where Their Money Went: LNCC
Party Vice Chair Says Many States Are Having A Best Year
LNC-Funded Lawsuit
More LNC Action
Electronic subscribers get the Guns trifold
I resisted the notion of titling the next to last article “More of the LNC In Action” because I knew that the wags here would say that the “in” and the two blank spaces on each side should be deleted as erroneous.
I’ll put it up the article at GoldAmericaGroup dot com so you can judge for yourselves.
JT: As I said, this is all getting way off-topic.
jt: If you want more Left-leaning libertarians in the LP, then recruit more; nobody is stopping you.
me: True, although it’s probably also true that certain prominent left- or right-leaners can be toxic to the other side. For ex., David Duke (who has publicly in the past said he’s a L) becoming a major LP figure would make it pretty difficult for a left-leaner to recruit like-minded folks into the LP. I’m sure there are notorious left leaners who might have the same effect for right-leaners.
As a moderate, centrist L, I personally’d rather lose as much extremist baggage of either flavor as possible.
Packing. The extra delegates from a state can join other states. Have seen it happen before and it was on both the right side and left side of the LP aisle. Bottom line, each state should have rules that allow or don’t allow such transfer. If they don’t, then they should check with states that do have rules in place. And some states have very lax rules, if any, for a person to just sit in the delegation. THAT makes it ripe for a large group, like the Tea Party folks, to march right in and take over a state delegation. Again, some states have rules to make that opportunity more difficult. And there should be some minimum standards, such as signing the LP pledge and being a citizen of the USA. Some states will require delegates to have voted in their primary, if they are a primary state.
Ralph: “Perhaps we need a separate thread to discuss this right-wing infiltration/phony delegates issue. This is getting so off topic…”
First, the original topic wasn’t about “right-wing infiltration/phony delegates” either. It was about giving $ to the LP and its candidates instead of to Schiff.
Second, what “phony delegates” issue? The fact that a small percentage of Libertarians were delegates from a state other than their own? It was obviously inconsequential.
Third, re: right-wing infiltration: there have always been and always will be Libertarians who lean to the Right, just as there have always been and always will be Libertarians who lean to the Left. If you want more Left-leaning libertarians in the LP, then recruit more; nobody is stopping you.
kk, let me take the abolitionist L perspective for a moment. They don’t tend to get “set off” when a L candidate or spokesperson remains silence or moderate in perspective. But when someone like Root goes in what they (and I, in this case) believe is an anti-liberty direction like in the case of Cordoba, they would maintain that Root and others are harming the cause of liberty by distorting the brand. It’s salt on a wound.
Some abolitionists seem to believe that putting our heads down and doing the Party’s nuts-and-bolts work while the foundation is being corrupted may be a counterproductive energy drain. It’s an understandable view.
While not the LP, I certainly felt like I sense the abolitionists do now when NewsletterGate knocked the Paul campaign off the tracks. A bad situation was exacerbated by really poor damage control, leading me to the view that Paul 08 turned from a net positive for liberty to a net negative, IMO.
Maintaining messaging discipline is important to any marketing campaign. We don’t have much discipline, and despite Milnes’s unworkable “peer review board,” we don’t have a means to keep people on the reservation.
I have faith there will be a solution, but what it is is not obvious. Whether the abolitionists can ever be satisfied, I just don’t know. Whether the more practical can maintain messaging discipline, it’s also not clear.
The whole “delegation packing” thing is a pretty sensitive issue, and it’s also one on which it’s not very clear where the lines should be drawn.
I’d certainly draw the line on this side of arranging seats for, paying the expenses of, and busing in, delegates who register, cast a key vote, then leave.
This is the second national convention in a row at which rumors that that was happening ran rampant and turned out, so far as I can tell, to be untrue.
And, if the attempt is made it is easily preventable:
Party elections generally take place later in the agenda, and a 7/8ths vote of already seated delegates is required to seat new ones. So, if the buses pull up to the front of the convention hall half an hour before the vote for chair or presidential nominee, it takes only 1/8th of the delegates on the floor to say “we don’t think so.”
The kind of “packing” which is more typical, and which I see as problematic but not fatal, is this:
– A candidate has/cultivates a high degree of support in states in the area where the convention is to be held.
– Those states fill their own delegations with supporters of that candidate; party members from those states then ask/offer to fill blank seats in the delegations of more distant states which have more difficulty finding people who are willing to travel a great distance for the convention.
The only defense against that kind of “packing” is for states to refuse to accept people from out of state as delegates.
Some states do that automatically. Some take all comers. Some could conceivably have conditions, e.g. the existing delegation will only accept people it believes will support the candidates/proposals it backs.
In the case of this most recent convention:
– Indiana seemed to be a “Root for Chair” state anyway, and especially so given “favorite son” Mark Rutherford’s vice chair candidacy as part of a Root “ticket.”
– Indianapolis to St. Louis is only about a four-hour drive.
So, it wasn’t surprising to see Indiana Libertarians turning up in other states’ delegations, or to see them leaning Root/Rutherford in the voting.
Is that “packing?” Well, if it was a coordinated effort to specifically place Root-Rutherford voters in delegations, yes, it was.
Should that kind of “packing” be against the rules? It seems to me that it would be difficult to enforce, difficult to prove, etc.
So far as I know, the vast majority of those Indiana delegates, whatever state they fell in with delegation-wise, were there for most of the convention. They were actual delegates, not just Root/Rutherford ringers.
And, if three buses full of Hoosiers had pulled up to the Renaissance Grand an hour before the vote for chair, there’s no doubt in my mind that t least 1/8th+1 of the seated delegates would have told them they were welcome to get right back on the buses because they wouldn’t be seeing the floor or casting votes.
Maybe we need to focus on getting people elected and building state parties. How’s that working for us?
Perhaps we need a separate thread to discuss this right-wing infiltration/phony delegates issue. This is getting so off topic…
Tom, I appreciate that very much — thank you. But remember, I’m a big-government Progressive! I’m hyper-sensitive to this sort of thing.
Tell you what — get John Monds to run for President, and we can both agree to vote for a principled African American. (Yeah, yeah, I know, all the good guys are for Lee Wrights already. But — Monds! Nobody has that kind of electoral track record in the third parties, nobody. That’s a guy I could vote for enthusiastically.)
STOP, STOP, DON LAKE, QUIT TYPING:
………… can not help it ……… can not desist from ………. correcting ignorance from Good Fellow Terrace …….. or may be even that boarding house between the Steak N Shake and the DECA head quarters ——- in Pine Lawn, on Sylvan Avenue ………. stop it, Lake, stop it
If I knew Knapp’s individual address I would tell him personally and privately
[a] ‘shuck and jive’ is a dirivisive term BY NON BLACKS going back to ‘Black Face’ lime light days ……….
[b] ‘step and fetchet’ goes all the way back to the Pre Anabellum Dixie ……….. ORDERS by NON BLACKS to the house staff, and ‘get on it’ don’t daudle, and when you bring the plates of food back along ‘Whistler’s Walk’ ya better be awhistling as the real folks, the WHITE FOLKS, do not want you to sneak bites of OUR food!
And we know you can’t spit and whistle at the same time! ——– Tommie, my college alma mater is just down the road, take a class or two!
[c] So there is some gravel machine near the hole in the bottom of the sea? NO! Gravel is produced in the high LANDS.
It comes down the river to the BEACH.
The Ocean is ‘built upon not sand, but volcanic rifts. The material at the bottom of the sea is organic dead animals and plants.
This includes some of the largest (size and volume) life forms on the planet. Mats of wierd stuff (to us top siders, any way) resembling mud [but with the exact same DNA ] cover the NON SANDY ocean bottom to the size of Connecticut and or San Bernardino [California] County!
Thomas, you ignorant slut * Dan Ackroid voice over * ………
# 56.
Ohio didn’t go 100% for Root– not even close.
So should a state that worked hard, motivated people to attend, etc, dictate how people vote?
I think not.
As far as any motivation by chair candidates, only Wayne Allyn Root and J.J. Meyers attended the Ohio Convention. Ernie H sent literature which was put on a table for everyone to pick up. Let’s move on. There is nothing here.
I’d be looking at the states that didn’t even come close to filling their delegations and asking “why”.
kk, yes, Moulton’s sentiment is well taken (“Instead of complaining about full, active delegations, I hope people in other states will try to fill their delegations.”)
There is a downside to this, though. If it’s viewed as a call to arms, where more and more Ls get more and more shrill and disrespectful with fellow Ls they disagree with, we’re left with a cacophony. Charges, counter-charges…all a huge energy drain.
Meanwhile, the State grows.
Kevin @54, what about 33?
George, I agreed with your idiots in high LP positions & I sort of followed your police brutality argument-the rest of l’s are complacent and therefore duplicitous sort of argument. But the 4 carpetbaggers in the Ohio delegation-you sort of lost me.
If you could show some sort of pattern of Root stacking the deck. I remember in 2008 Kubby making noises about encouraging a lot of delegates to show up & vote for him. But that was public. Like I said I’m suspicious that Root has help behind the scenes. Do you have any evidence of any such pattern?
Otherwise we are left like SRL @18 with our faces hanging out wondering about the fascination of the 40% of idiot l’s with Root.
I stand with # 30 Chuck. In my libertarian journey I have learned a lot and continue the process.
Come on, George, Kevin & Robert have you up against the ropes. TR wouldn’t have even let that happen. Come back with something!
JT @48, you do not rest your case. You fail to comprehend.
kk: Find some new material.
me: Be careful what you wish for! Paranoids can ALWAYS find new enemies, new conspiracies, new objects for them to project their venom onto.
Recall the premise: “…there are a slew of idiots in important party positions out there who thought Wayne Root was competent to be our National Chair.”
Recall the conclusion: Let the “slew of idiots” go unchecked, and you get the equivalent of “The Blue Wall of Silence. Other cops who really are *just as bad* because they refuse to bear witness or say they saw nothing. That’s what you’re cheering for when you complain about me.”
Suggesting that GP not attack fellow Ls (“the slew of idiots”) enables and perhaps encourages the L version of police brutality.
It’s senseless to try to make sense of what you see down that rabbit hole.
Why do you care about Ohio George? You have enought issues in your state to fill a text book. We had people in KY delegation. Region 3 decided– we have contiguous states and we GET ALONG. And some of those people lived in Ohio and and had moved to Indiana. All had signed the pledge. All were voted in by the Ohio delegation. So you making a big deal about 4 people from Indiana.
Find some new material.
And Knedler claims he had all these delegates…
I have a copy of the actual official list of credentialed delegates, credentialed as delegates for Ohio.
That includes a number of delegates whose home addresses were from Indiana. Ohio carpetbaggers, they were.
And who, who since we were asking questions, who signed off on making these people your delegates?
Me: “The LP presidential nominee and the GP presidential nominee usually combine for roughly 1% of the popular vote. You say a joint campaign would garner roughly 40%. There seems to be something fairly substantial missing there. Until you explain how 1% becomes 40% in a clear, coherent way, PLAS doesn’t deserve any attention whatsoever.”
Milnes: “TO: maximizing The Libertarian Vote 13% + adding the progressive vote @27% with a fusion ticket & voting for EITHER a Lib OR a Green on every possible ballot.”
I rest my case.
tk, some read the same words and come to very different conclusions, especially when the words are verse. Others compartmentalize their politics from their other philosophical perspectives.
I was amused when I heard Sarah Palin say “only dead fish go with the flow” recently. Hmm. Seems kinda false. But if you want to see the power of going with the flow, check out the Grand Canyon sometime.
Bob,
I find it difficult to believe that your political ideas are the product of “applied Taoism,” for the simple reason that I’ve spent the last few years working fairly closely with a Taoist who’s damn near as stridently abolitionist as me.
As for my own foundation, well … rigid, no; built on sand, very possibly. Most oceans are.
As for the term “shuck and jive,” my sources tell me it would only be offensive if used regarding an African American, and only mildly so.
I can understand TK’s labeling me as a “shuck and jive” artist, as he tends to be hyper-literal and even uptight, in his analysis here and elsewhere. My applied Taoism challenges his rigid foundation, which I’d suggest is built on sand.
srl: …it is my opinion that the money raised for [Schiff’s] campaign would pay higher dividends if it was channeled into Libertarian campaigns.
me: Yes, agreed. GP’s accusation against Root, esp. in his new role on LNCC and LNC, is that Root seems to be playing both sides of the fence.
Personally, I don’t have a problem with crossing over now and then for strategic reasons, but I think I probably agree with GP if he’s saying it’s bad form for an LP official to do so, even if it’s for vehicles outside (in this case) Root’s official capacity.
Full disclosure: I gave $25 to the Paul 08 effort, prior to the Stormfront and NewsletterGate incidents. I now regret doing so, but in a small way I wanted to encourage Dr. Paul, who at the time was becoming a bit of a sensation during the debates and in the media. I was aware that Paul still held views I disagree with and was sometimes too close to hard-rightists and haters.
An Angle win might be a tactical plus only because it would take Reid out as Maj. Leader, this despite some of her extreme views. She is a poster child for why the GOP is not an organization I’d want to associate with.
Schiff will not get the nomination, in all likelihood, so an L expending effort for Schiff seems highly contra-indicated to me. From what I’ve seen, the man should stick to finance…he’s a poor politician. Far too “hot” and hysterical. TV (and therefore politics) are “cool” mediums, according to McLuhan.
This assumes that GP has not distorted the facts of Root’s supporting Angle and Schiff.
This is why we need a purge & revolution. As it is, WE are sitting ducks. A purge>revolution puts THEM on the defensive.
George, Root is a strong dversary. Because the push/pull to the right is strong. Either he is pretty much as he says and appears. Or he is an agent of some type. Or a dupe. Or a combination thereof, which is what I suspect. He is as appears but is being helped behind the scenes. If this is the case it will be very difficult to prove because the spooks can go through walls.& can hide right in front of you.
Jeremy,
The fact that you find it offensive is enough to get me to look into it further.
“Acting evasive”? “Disingenuous”? There are lots of other terms.
I dunno — I can’t find online confirmation of it, but I’m pretty sure it’s now considered an offensive term. But take with a grain of salt.
Kevin @ 29 and Chuck @ 30, right on!
There was no bus from Ohio, unless you consider my truck bringing a total of 3 people to the convention a “bus”. And I didn’t even know who the others were voting for at the time. I didn’t care.
SINCE YOU ASKED;
I have heard at least a dozen folks in the last few years agree 100% with me that Pro Pot Lib Steve Kubby’s [apparently replaced] official photo was that of a glazed faced drug addict.
You and Phillies repeatedly put your hands over your eyes and said that there was nothing wrong with the photo graph. While that is your [deserved] opinion is the equivalent of dening that the emperor is sun bathing.
Same with Kubby’s lack of communications. Notice that it took only MINUTES for a couple of folks to agree with me.
Others claim that they have had no problem in that area. Others have personally told me that they also shared my experience.
Same with “Nightmare’ Nightingale ……..
Same with Steven (GOP) Gordon ………..
Same with Fair and Equal’s Christina Tobin …..
Same with ……….. (why would I lie. I hold off [like Tobin] when I am friendly with folks I want to keep good feelings with, like Richard Winger, one great guy and an icon of fairness, but I then use references to bolster my argument.
Who, out side of you and paulie, goes into more detail, than I, and trying to use specifics like personal observation and multiple references. I will occassionally mention official platforms and state ments, but not often as they are often steer manure, for the last 3500 years.
I was told that you and Phillies were both ‘talking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time’ over two years ago. Phillies is an early and easy read.
Look how disingenuous you still are. No, ‘you are right Don, LP is OBVIOUSLY not the one and only peace party’ ; it is ‘name another’!
You might be a sincere anti war Lib type, but I do not know. In the last 30 months, the more I know of you, the less I know about you.
Any way, the light bulb finally came on and I wrote you off. (Like Milnes and Phillies, notice my lack of responses to your threads?)
So any way, I a core bound anti Dem and anit GOP. In a perfect world I would [like President Nixon, Ford, Carter, George H. W. and Governor Gray Davis, and Mayors Rodger Hedgecock, ‘Judge’ Dick Murphy, Steve Padilla, District Attorneys Ed Miller, Steve Kelly, Paul Phinstz] to help storm the Bastille of the insular and powerful.
In a fair world, I would like to inflict damage.
At the very least, I would like to lift the rude ‘didget’ while getting down some kind of paper trail of protest.
Practically, alternative politics is an asterisk of an asterisk. But, like Patrick Henry, whom had lots of profile and PR problems personally him self, I can not shut up and I can not keep still!
Instead most of it went to the GOP, directly or indirectly.
Dan Reale @34, agreed. I’ll add that reason to the many I already have to not support Ron Paul.
Paul never had a chance to win even one primary.That is if you read The Libertarian Vote.
I think most of Paul’s support was an anti-war statement & a state of denial he would lose & hope that he would win. Not much to invest 35 million hard earned $ which represents a treasure trove for third parties. Think of what could have been done if that 35 million went to the LP and/or GP. + all his loyal, blind supporters. Ronulan Paulnuts.
Bob Barr’s campaign raised what, 1 million? McKinney? fuggetaboudit. Nader? who cares?
“When I lived in Knapp’s neighborhood, I heard the term and it was rascist, no less than ’step and fetchet’”
I’ve never heard either term used in my neighborhood. Not even down on the corner of Kingshighway and Natural Bridge.
But, if any and every term which is of African-American origin is inherently racist, then I guess I’m just screwed because I could no more remove all such terms from my vocabulary and expect to write than I could cut off both my own legs and expect to walk.
“and Phillies and Knapp are THE poster couple of Spin Doctoring ——- and of LP being the one and only 21st Century American Peace Party!”
Feel free to name another.
The problem with supporting Republicans and focusing the effort there is the day after the primary, which is the beginning of the rest of the election. If you want a libertarian to win the republican nomination, and he doesn’t win the primary, you’re out of luck. It’s all over. And those pushing in this direction shouldn’t talk about back up plans if they’re not willing to make sure they exist.
Say what people will about third parties, but people have to be able to vote for a candidate in November before we can even talk about winning.
Far too many eggs went in the Schiff basket this time around. Same with the Ron Paul basket of 2008.
What good is a full delegation if 40% of the idiots vote for a republican in libertarian garb like Root?
The lowest ranking candidates-for city council & dog catcher will be the heroes by knocking on every door in their jurisdiction & explaining this to every voter they can.
JT, a beam of light will be bent by Earth’s gravitation. Absurd on its face! Everybody knows the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line.
I’ve explained this MANY times.
PLAS changes the dynamic. FROM minimizing The Libertarian Vote & the progressive vote-vote for the lesser of 2 evils-dem or rep & do not waste your vote by voting third party/Independent.
TO: maximizing The Libertarian Vote 13% + adding the progressive vote @27% with a fusion ticket & voting for EITHER a Lib OR a Green on every possible ballot.
Also-the voters have to be educated about this or it will go right over their heads.
Don’t mess with Ohio.
Instead of complaining about full, active delegations, I hope people in other states will try to fill their delegations.
So now George is INSULTING Indiana and Ohio LP, two of the most active affiliates in the nation! Hey dude, I worked by ass off for 5 months to fill our delegation– 5 months. We went from 5 in Portland to 10 in Denver to 45 in St. Louis. There was NO bus, there was NO caravan. Yes, a few caught rides with others. What an insult. So the fact is that Ohio had the largest on-floor delegation on Sunday with 45 people. On Monday we still had the largest on-floor delegation with 35 people. So ten people left. Same thing happened to Texas, California, and many other states. People had to get back to work. What a loser comment. So you want to mess around with Ohio huh?
Thomas L. Knapp // Aug 8, 2010:
” I don’t think I’ve ever heard “shuck and jive” characterized as an inherently racist term before ……”
When I lived in Knapp’s neighborhood, I heard the term and it was rascist, no less than ‘step and fetchet’ ———– and Phillies and Knapp are THE poster couple of Spin Doctoring ——- and of LP being the one and only 21st Century American Peace Party!
Yeah, right, sure!
Milnes: “You have it within your capability to give it a fair try & you do not. THAT would be acceptable as proof.”
We don’t need to give it a “fair try” when it’s absurd on its face. The LP presidential nominee and the GP presidential nominee usually combine for roughly 1% of the popular vote. You say a joint campaign would garner roughly 40%. There seems to be something fairly substantial missing there. Until you explain how 1% becomes 40% in a clear, coherent way, PLAS doesn’t deserve any attention whatsoever.
As for Schiff, I remember that he gave a speech at a Conn. LP convention urging Libertarians to give up the LP and work within the Republican Party. I wonder how he feels that’s working out for him.
wellllllllllllllllll ……
Bob,
Thanks for your concern, but I don’t need an excuse for my writings.
Tom, have you seen a doctor yet?
High blood glucose could be used as an excuse for some of your writings.
Steven’s
George, can you parry teven’s touche’? He says he was there. The Ohio delegation.
You know, Einstein, Wilhelm Reich & Teddy Roosevelt were all pretty much contemporaries. I completed Reich’s theory about the correct human psychoanalytic structure & sexual activity. Now I’ve solved the problem of the Progressive Movement. All I have left is to finish Einstein’s Unified Field Theory & I’ll have a trifecta!
To get back to the subject of this thread…
I can understand some folks wanting to support Peter Schiff. His father has made several trips to Ohio to promote his books, and to promote his candidacy for POTUS in ’96.
While that is understandable, it is my opinion that the money raised for his campaign would pay higher dividends if it was channeled into Libertarian campaigns. Money spent on republican candidates will be lost forever, never to bring about lasting change.
OTOH, money and time invested on even losing Libertarian candidates will see a stronger LP in the future. And I believe a stronger LP is worth the investment.
PEACE
JT @7, “…You’ve…inane ideas that I and others have proved on here wouldn’t work. …”
Ummm… I don’t think so.
You have it within your capability to give it a fair try & you do not. THAT would be acceptable as proof. Not a few fool words on a political blog.
A few years after Einstein wrote Relativity, part of his theory was proven with photography of a solar eclipse-that light rays would be bent by Earth’s gravitational field. If he was WRONG, THAT would have been proven also.
In the 2010 elections give PLAS a fair try. If I’m wrong, no harm done. The candidates are going to fundraise & campaign anyway. The ballot access has already been done such as it is. I predict-which is what Einstein did-that they will ALL lose-unless PLAS is given a fair try.
That includes a stack of Indiana and Ohio carpetbaggers bussed to the scene.
George, I was there in St Louis. I was there as part of the Ohio delegation. I knew ALL the people in our delegation.
I’m not aware of anybody in our delegation that could be considered a “carpet-bagger”, although a couple of us work in jobs that take us around the country (at the time I was working at a coal mine on the border with WV and I caught a ride with a guy that works in PA but lives in OH).
I personally don’t understand the fascination of some of my fellow delegates to Root other than his frequent trips and his friendships with several of the folks here. But that’s a debate for another day.
PEACE
Jeremy,
Do you have a preferred expression? I don’t think I’ve ever heard “shuck and jive” characterized as an inherently racist term before.
George: “Professors have been teaching for a demonstrable 25 centuries. Based on Plato, we have not changed that much.”
Geez, are you trying to prove my point?
George: “The reason we have not changes [sic] is that, on the average, our style works.”
In academia, sure. In practical politics, hell no.
George: “With respect to your other question, Root got barely more than 200 votes at the end.”
How many did you get again?
George: “That includes a stack of Indiana and Ohio carpetbaggers bussed to the scene. It includes some people trying to turn our Party into Republicans. And, of course, it includes people who concluded that NOTA was unlikely to win, and Root is less incompetent to be chair than is his opponent.”
And…? All his votes came from Libertarians who preferred him, like it or not. And there are many more Libertarians besides the delegates at the convention who are Root supporters.
It’s your right to call many Libertarians names if you wish. But it’s more of the same from a guy who obviously has a tin ear when it comes to communication.
and let’s not overlook GP bringing up “crimes” by either Barr or Root or other right-leaning L. Always livens the place up! 😉
And 4) Tom brings out the racism.
Sorry Tom, “shuck and jive” just isn’t appropriate in this day and age.
NewFed,
The same way it always gets so totally phuqed up, Pinkie:
1) Bob M. brings the crazy;
2) Bob C. breaks out the shuck and jive;
3) Hilarity ensues.
Wow… just HOW did this thread get so totally phuqed up?
gp, wow! You’re comparing a difference of political opinion and strategy with police brutality, do I have that right?
Are you without sin? Does this make you qualified to cast the first stone?
As for my words being like a blue wall of silence, those paying attention will notice that I often express my disagreement and disappointment with Root’s and other “right” Ls, as well as “left” Ls and even fellow “centrist” Ls. I don’t pretend to have all the answers, I’m sure I don’t. I’m just doing the best I can, as I trust that you are, too. Seems like you might dial way back on the hysterical histrionics, though…and cop to making mistakes like FEC/Narc-gate. Your journey might go a lot more peacefully.
Donate to BVD and Hammer of Truth II / Libertarian Mart?
@3
Professors have been teaching for a demonstrable 25 centuries. Based on Plato, we have not changed that much. The reason we have not changes is that, on the average, our style works. Besides, I have not begun to demonstrate true pedantry…there isn’t a single classical quote *in the original Latin or better yet Attic Greek, without translation* in my remarks.
With respect to your other question, Root got barely more than 200 votes at the end. That includes a stack of Indiana and Ohio carpetbaggers bussed to the scene. It includes some people trying to turn our Party into Republicans. And, of course, it includes people who concluded that NOTA was unlikely to win, and Root is less incompetent to be chair than is his opponent.
As for you Mr. Capozzi, let me give you my opinion back: All across America the bad cops who brutalize or shoot dead their prisoners are cheering you on. I was chair of our County ACLU board. We saw reports of what local communities had to agree to in settlements of issues like this. And why do these events go on and on and on?
The Blue Wall of Silence. Other cops who really are *just as bad* because they refuse to bear witness or say they saw nothing.
That’s what you’re cheering for when you complain about me.
You’re cheering to protect the people who planted a gun on the decedent after he was shot dead. You’re cheering for the people who beat a man until his testicles swelled to three times their normal size. You’re cheering for the people who beat men unconscious, fried their gonads with signal generators…. That’s what you’re cheering for.
Mind you, there are a huge number of honest, virtuous policemen and policewomen who are revolted by these sorts of events, but you’re not cheering for them. You’re cheering for the blue wall of silence.
Are your hands feeling sticky? That’s blood, so to speak. The blood of all the people whose brutalizers and murderers your opinions are I maintain protecting.
JT – my only proof is that I heard several people say they came to the convention jut to vote for Root, and one person say he flew in from Central America to do so…
I never said that ALL of his votes were “bused in” only that some were.
Milnes: “JT, George is right here. & yes, further, grassroots Libertarians part of the slew of idiots.George said important party positions, not grassroots.I go further.”
Milnes, I don’t expect anything better from YOU. For all his academic snobbery, George is a dedicated activist who has run for office, chaired a state party, been a volunteer coordinator, etc. You’ve done nothing except sit in a trailer and dream up inane ideas that I and others have proved on here wouldn’t work. If you DIDN’T call Libertarians idiots, I’d be shocked.
Robert: “OR, we could adopt a more healthy view of those who don’t vote “our” way…perhaps they felt on balance that Candidate X was the best or least poor option among several choices.”
I’m sure they did feel that, yes. I’m not saying that a Libertarian should never think certain choices are wrong. Just because most Libertarians preferred candidate X doesn’t mean you now should support X and never criticize X. But name-calling everyone who doesn’t share your preference is over the line for a respectable person, IMHO.
Darryl: “Root was “busing” supporters into the convention. I understand one of his supporters came in from Central America… many others left immediately after the voting for At-Large…”
Yes, this is a common refrain from some Libertarians who can’t understand why others would vote for a particular candidate. Show me any proof that Root was “busing in” several hundred delegates from all over the country and I’ll believe it. It has to be more than just “one of his supporters came from Central America,” which means nothing, or “many others left immediately after voting for the At-Large,” which makes perfect sense. Otherwise, I’ll just chalk it up to the fact that many Libertarians really like Wayne Root, just like many really don’t like him.
Root was “busing” supporters into the convention. I understand one of his supporters came in from Central America… many others left immediately after the voting for At-Large…
jt, yes, “insufferable” is a helpful description, like watching the person with the glass house throwing stones.
There may be another “slew of idiots” who supported GP despite his filing a complaint directly against the LP. Imagine that!
OR, we could adopt a more healthy view of those who don’t vote “our” way…perhaps they felt on balance that Candidate X was the best or least poor option among several choices.
Perfection on Earth seems fleeting, so we do the best we can, all things considered. Even GP! Even when he doesn’t seem to learn his lessons.
JT, George is right here. & yes, further, grassroots Libertarians part of the slew of idiots.George said important party positions, not grassroots.I go further.
This is a major problem. The solution is-again-for a resolution and/or bylaw such that non libertarians may not be party officials or candidates. To be determined by a Peer Review Group.
If barred from becoming a party official or candidate, then grassroots can not make the mistake of electing non libertarians to party office or divert support from genuine libertarians to non libertarian candidates.
George: “The next time you wonder why our party is getting nowhere, remember, there are a slew of idiots in important party positions out there who thought Wayne Root was competent to be our National Chair.”
Wayne Root wound up getting more than 40% of the vote for national chair at the convention. Are all of those grassroots Libertarians part of the slew of idiots? I’m not a big Wayne Root fan, and I think it’s appalling for anyone on the LNC to try to drum up support for other parties’ candidates. But your pedantic attitude is insufferable, George. No wonder you keep getting crushed in party elections.
Returning to Wayne Root’s candidate Sharon Angle, I quote David Nolan from the LP.org blog “But she’s an ultra-hawk in the War on Drugs, saying that she’d like to outlaw alcohol along with the currently illegal drugs like marijuana. She vehemently opposes a woman’s right to choose whether to continue her pregnancy – even saying that a 13-year-old raped by her father should be denied an abortion because maybe the pregnancy was “God’s plan.” And predictably, she’s 100% behind our staying enmired in foreign wars until the end of time.”
Amusingly, the answer to this question is also obvious to Wayne Root. Mr. Root, an At-Large member of the LNC and Chairman of the Libertarian National Congressional Committee, has recently circulated a letter to his RootForAmerica email list, calling on his readers to support Mr. Schiff’s campaign.
Nor is Mr Schiff the only Republican candidate that Mr Root supports. Mr Root also has advocated for Nevada Republican Senate candidate Sharron Angle, perhaps most known for her opinion
http://slashpolitics.lvcitylife.com/2010/05/prohibition-and-sharron-angle/
that we should revive alcohol prohibition. Ms. Angle gave us: “I would tell you that I have the same feelings about legalizing marijuana, not medical marijuana, but just legalizing marijuana,” Angle offered. “I feel the same about legalizing alcohol.” Angle’s spokespeople have of course attempted to flee her from her original position on the issue. In this they have been aided by the advantage that like many other conservative blowhards Angle has never submitted legislation to put her opinion on this topic into law.
Like many other conservative kooks, Angle and Schiff also do not believe in global warming — a position they share with Wayne Root.
The Libertarian National Congressional Committee is one of the three Federal PACs to which the Libertarian Party as a National party is entitled. The LNCC is noteworthy for having raised and spent thousands and thousands of dollars since it was formed in 2005, including thusfar not a dime is support of any Federal candidate.
The next time you wonder why our party is getting nowhere, remember, there are a slew of idiots in important party positions out there who thought Wayne Root was competent to be our National Chair.