Background from previous IPR coverage (see discussion in comments on the previous post):
On October 30, Jim Duensing, who was chairman of the Nevada Libertarian Party until March, 2009, was shot by a Las Vegas policeman after the police had stopped Duensing for making an illegal turn and some illegal lane changes.
Liberty Cap Talk Live’s description of the show:
[In the second hour of the show], Todd (Barnett), Jim (Landrith), and their panelists, pro-Liberty activist Jessica Geary, Free Keene NH pro-Liberty/civil disobedience activist Cassidy Nicosia, and Ron Paul supporter and pro-Liberty activist Darryl W. Perry discussed ObamaCare mandating people to accept the governments socialized health insurance disguised as the consumer option, the conservatives’ opposition to holding 9/11 Trials in New York City, and former NYC Mayor Rudy Giuliani’s opposition to the trials.
[In the first hour of the show],Todd, Jim, and their panelists interviewed former Libertarian Party of Nevada Chairman Jim Duensing for 60 minutes from 11:10 p.m. EST to 12:10 a.m. EST on the Las Vegas cops tasing and shooting his person and his take on the rise of the police state.
Notes for IPR: 1) I (Paulie) also called in and participated in the first hour with Jim Duensing.
2) Jim Duensing’s campaign site is http://hellforharry.com/. He is running against US Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
3) Jim Duensing’s first hand account of the incident in question from IPR comments on the previous piece, posted November 1st:
First, I’d like to thank everyone for their prayers and well wishes.
I have suffered a broken arm. It is currently pinned in 4 places. Additional surgery on it will probably take place on Wednesday.
The shots to my midsection missed all vital organs. Three shots were fired from behind me and to my right. The doctors believe that two of the shots made contact. It appears that one entered my right pec, bounced off my sternum, went through my left pec, then shattered my humerous just above my left elbow. The second shot went in my lower right abdomen and exited my left abdomen without hitting any vital organs.
I am well on the way to recovery. and expect to be released from the hospital shortly after my surgery on Wednesday.
I am disappointed that the CCLP issued a press release without having spoken to me first. As a result, it contains misstatements of fact.
Here is what happened.
I was pulled over for driving straight through an intersection in a right turn only lane. I did signal for my lane changes to the left.
After exiting the vehicle at the officer’s request, I was standing with my back to the vehicle. The car’s open door was to my right. My hands were raised above my head. I was calmly speaking to the cop attempting to talk my way out of being taken to jail over an unpaid High Occupancy Vehicle ticket.
With my hands raised above my head, the cop shot me with a taser in the chest. As I have had heart problems since my premature birth, I believe a Taser to be a lethal weapon. Several people without heart conditions have been killed by this weapon.
When the taser began electrocuting me, instinct took over. I have been shocked by standard 120 volt electricity, which is what is used in your home. That was bad enough. Metro’s tasers contain “50,000 volts of pain compliance” according to one of the cops at the family law court who was operating the checkpoint.
Let me tell you, it is quite painful.
I immediately turned to my left and began moving away from the source of the electrocution. By the time I got to the back of the vehicle, I had reached up with both hands, grabbed the electrodes, and pulled them away from my chest. The juice then flowed through my arms – not my heart. As I lay here in my hospital bed, I firmly believe this instinct saved my life.
I continued running away from the taser. I heard the cop fire it again, but did not feel an additional shock.
I was running down the sidewalk with empty hands. I heard three pops from behind me. At first, I thought it was another taser shot. Then, I saw my left arm dangling.
I was taken down by a second officer – who was nearby conducting a separate unrelated traffic stop. He had me lying facedown on my broken arm. It was at this point that he found my licensed and registered pistol in my right cargo pants pocket and my Emerson folding knife in my right front pocket.
Let me reiterate. I am a firearms instructor at the world’s largest firearms training facility. I always carry a gun and at least one knife. I NEVER pulled either of these items out of my pockets.
The shooter was on my right side and from his perspective had to have been able to see that my right hand was indeed empty. The officer that I was running toward never reached for any weapon.
I’d like to publicly thank the Trauma surgeons at the UMC Medical facility. They did an excellent job. The reason additional surgery on my arm is necessary is because the wounds to my chest took priority. For good reason, they worry first about life, then about limb.
Again, thanks everyone for their well wishes. I have spoken to several people on the phone since being released from custody – although I still have not heard from the CCLP or the NVLP chairs.
To my knowledge, the CCLP had not issued a press release in years. I’m not sure why it felt compelled to issue one in this instance which contained misstatements of fact and which clearly tried to distance the CCLP from one of its members. Although, not an officer, I am a voting member of the CCLP excomm. Needless to say, my editing advice was not sought on the press release before it was issued.
Incidentally, I was returning from a trip to Carson City, following the Teabagger Express in support of my 2010 Senate campaign to unseat the Senator from Searchlight.
The campaign website is http://www.HellForHarry.com. I feel compelled to mention this, because neither the RJ nor the LP included this information in their written statements.
Rather than send flowers, please send your condolences in the form of campaign contributions 🙂
In liberty, with eternal vigilance,
Jim Duensing
(photo of Jim Duensing posted by Debra Dedmon on facebook).
Here’s an update on the show downloads as of Friday, November 28, 2009 12:01 AM EST.
11/20/2009 349 Archives
11:00 PM 6 Lives
120 Minutes 17 Callers
That’s up from 312 obviously, but the download rate has slowed down dramatically to about (I’m just guessing here) 10 percent. And that’s about a significant drop in the previous rate after 4 days.
Simply put, it shows that just about everyone who has heard of the show has seen it, but the interest in the interview has died down. The downloads will continue but the rate will remain on the flat side because it’s no longer deemed a new episode (those who haven’t heard it still have and will always have a chance to hear it).
As for Duensing’s appearance, I just want to say it was a pleasure to have him on. I found him to be thoughtful, intelligent, very perceptive, and quite engaging and positive as well.
All the previous negative comments directed at his character are nothing short of glib and catty cracks and smears to boot.
In his defense, he was right to do what he did, and I don’t care what anyone says. He did what anyone would have done at the time. He has no need to apologize for it, and he shouldn’t have to because of a few statist clods on our side who think they can kiss the ring of the state and just be pals with them. To those people who diss Duensing, stick it up your ass and keep it in there.
Hope the feeling is nice for you.
Yours in Liberty,
Todd Andrew Barnett
Host, Liberty Cap Talk Live
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/libertycaptalklive
Joey said:
Except you can’t. All complaints against police officers — indeed, in most states, against ANY public employee — are considered “confidential personnel records” and are therefore exempt from release under state FOI laws.
In many states, including my own, you can’t even get a list of state employees past or present who were CONVICTED OF CRIMINAL OFFENSES IN A COURT OF LAW.
The only way you can get at that sort of information is to go through court transcripts to find employer information. In other words, finding out who the criminal crats are is for all intents and purposes IMPOSSIBLE.
The Times-Dispatch in Richmond VA a few years ago did an expose of VA state troopers who had been convicted of DUI. They said the records search cost them several thousand dollars in employee time researching court records to verify the story. They mentioned just how impossible it was to get any information from the Virginia State Police. And this was JUST for DUI’s!
Thank your local public employee union for state laws that coddle criminal employees and protect them from public scrutiny.
The police will lay Duensing’s life bare; but no questions of the officers’ conduct or character will be allowed.
Paulie #47,
I was just saying that I wish I could. That’s all.
For those who do the “Black Friday” shopping thing and would like to see more from Paulie when he’s on the road, I see that several stores have the little “netbook” computers he mentions on sale for less than $200 that day.
Sounds ideal for him — big enough that he might not lose it, small enough that it’s not another major size/weight item to slow him down while traveling, and built-in WiFi so that he can hit the Net from any hot spot.
Well, then, there’s a big story here then. You guys are right to do what you’re doing.
Now I would pull an open records/public information request on every bit of conceivable intel on those officers’ backgrounds, resumes, etc. and post them online and basically put a massive magnifying glass over it.
@46, ok, I was going to say he knew or should have known. He drives. He should know he is subject to a pullover at just about any time for just about any reason. He is an attorney he should know his own personal legal business like outstanding warrants & responsibilities. & has no real excuse to not.
@43 I think many of our thoughts regarding police actions and whatnot are already well known and I am personally tired of repeating the same old thing to people who already pretty much agree with me. But to repeat: yes, I think what happened to Jim was f*cked up and law enforcement officers need to get back to being “peace officers”. But I must also repeat that Jim should be careful about what he says and where he says it because *anything* can be used against him. Sure, he has *our* sympathy and support, but I’d venture to guess that most people out there will see him as a rouge element because after all, the public eye, cops can do no wrong and if someone was shot by a cop, well…they likely deserved it. If Jim can pull an ace from his sleeve and not only bitch slap the Vegas PD, but can turn it into an electoral “victory” (however he defines victory), then fantastic. He has my support, but I want him to get through this incident with as little legal problems as possible. If that means not appearing on small internet based radio shows, then so be it.
Just so everyone knows, the number of show archive downloads have gone up…..way up over the previous week. Based on the statistical estimates I’ve calculated (and it’s possible that I have calculated them incorrectly), I’d say the show’s archive listenership has gone up 87 percent, largely because of my interview with Jim.
Here are the numbers as they stand (taken from Friday, November 13 and Friday, November 20):
Episode 13’s ratings, as of Friday, November 13:
11/13/2009 39 Archive
11:00 PM 8 Live
120 Minutes 8 Callers
Episode 14’s ratings, as of Friday, November 20:
11/20/2009 312 Archive
11:00 PM 6 Live
120 Minutes 17 Callers
Duensing’s numbers have incredibly increased my show’s down numbers by a whopping 87 percent. This is a record for this rebooted show, especially on a late-night time slot.
Yours in Liberty,
Todd Andrew Barnett
Liberty Cap Talk Live, Host
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/libertycaptalklive
Thanks for the thoughts, John.
But there is no need for anyone to explain why they aren’t sending me a mini-laptop or money to blog more at IPR. The default answer is of course no. The reason can be as simple as “I don’t want to” or “why the hell should I?”. I’m blegging on the off chance that there is someone reading who both has the means and values my contribution here enough to expend them on my behalf. If the answer is no, that is sufficient, and it does not have to be either said or explained. The consequences are simply that I will have times such as the last couple of months when I’m not available to post articles or comments here.
Are you sure he knew? I’ve had warrants I did not know about before.
I wish I could send you crazy guys some laptops, but my business is fucked ( not that it was ever great) and I’m pretty much begging people to pay me to clean their toilets so I can eat these days.
I’m also kinda in the “nut” category myself as I have a type of mental disability- one that doesn’t keep me from doing work but keeps me from getting work.
When I say “…fool Duensing…” I’m referring to the outstanding warrants. He knows he has them. He drives. Any incident involving police will bring up this warrant & they WILL arrest him. & avoiding the police while driving is not a given. Quite the contrary. They have HUGE authority when it comes to motor vehicles. Taillight out-pull over. Headlight out-pullover. Change lane no signal…well you get the picture.
Bummer. I was hoping people would have more thoughts about it than that. Glad you listened tho.
@15 yes, I did listen and that *is* my thought.
I run some risks from long ago former associates that I am not at liberty to discuss.
Youthful indiscretions, as one republican said.
PEACE
LOL, good luck. All in all I’ll take my baggage over yours.
We here at Third Party Revolution endorse Jim Duensing in his campaign for the Nevada US Senate seat, along with many other third party and independent candidates seeking public offices nationwide, ranging from local to federal levels.
OK, I’ll go for the 35 million. I don’t have any such baggage.
paulie @34, “The “market” will decide, though.
me: “Uh-oh.”
LOL, no, not in the cards for me. I can’t get too well off or too prominent or I run some risks from long ago former associates that I am not at liberty to discuss.
paulie, ok, you have figured a way to game the system. Get as good as Ron Paul at gaming the system- 35 million, then you will be doing ok.
Yep, and chances are neither of us is getting anything this time either. The “market” will decide, though.
paulie, hey, I’ve got no problem with your hand out at IPR next to mine. But remember Pittsburgh? NEITHER of us got anywhere.
paulie, yes, the mini laptops are interesting. However they do not have the cd/dvd drive. So I would prefer the full sized. But it sounds like a good fit for you.
I got first dibs. But you can get ’em used and abused after I’m done. Oh yeah, and after the donkey’s done too.
😛
paulie, as you catch up to speed at IPR there have been reports about a state assembly election in CA. No majority du to several republican candidates splitting their vote & they have a 10% registration edge. This is I believe in Orange County. There is one Green & no Lib. Now in MA I understand there is a Lib of sorts- an Independent Joe Kennedy who has been endorsed by the LPMA chair. NOW, IF progressives & libs BOTH agree to support & vote for the progressive/Green in CA AND MA, this could be construed as an Experiment to test the PLAS. I say we can win both if we get going with the campaigns. Although I’ll admit the CA race seems more difficult because of evident actual less number of potential progressive voters in that district. I believe you mentioned that possibility-that each district is different in voter composition. OK?
Maybe for you. I make a living at it. No SSI nut checks for me, and my expenses are more than most people’s – motels, restaurants every meal, etc.
Well shit, if we can bleg for Milnes, we can bleg for me too.
I’ve been avoiding getting a laptop for several reasons:
1. Expense
2. My tendency to lose stuff
3. Internet addiction getting in the way of work
4. More stuff to lug around, especially on greyhound and on foot.
I’ve seen these little mini-laptops they have now. I think the new ones run around $200, and it may be possible to get a used one cheaper. This doesn’t address problems 2 and 3, but it goes a ways towards solving problems 1 and 4; so if anyone wants to hook me up with one of those, that would be appreciated.
Tom, thank you for the hijack. Yes, my computer is just about played out. But the old thing sure was a\good one as computers go. I have managed to get it back up but no guarantees. So would everyone please add a dual core laptop to Bob’s wish list, along with a motorhome & solar panels. & throw in a Ron Paul bimbo too.
Milnes,
LOL. Small etiquette lesson. If you would like me to provide news here (which I don’t get paid for btw), being snotty to me is not the way to go.
However, I was planning on providing some news on Mass. anyway. I’ll get to it when I get to it. I just got back on the computer after missing a lot and have a lot of catching up to do. Trying to rush me will get you nowhere.
I don’t know anything about the California special election.
paulie, one thing I found out a long time ago is that being a political revolutionary is a 24/7 non paying job.
lg
glad to have you back Paulie , IPR sucked w/o you:)
Thanks!
I could hang out more if it was a job. But I gotta put paying work first.
If anyone reading wants to hire me to this full time that would be awesome 😛
lg, I wouldn’t go that far. IR is DIFFERENT without paulie. I’m ambivalent about the fat gut Ron Paul lover. I think there is hope for him. By the way, paulie, while I appreciate your concern/interest in the fool Duensing shooting, by far the most important issue to be discussed on IPR is the upcoming 2 special elections. MA & CA. & the possible PLAS Experiment involving BOTH. You just came back from MA. How about a report/update?
Thread hijack …
I just heard from Bob Milnes, whose computer appears to be on its last legs.
I know some people will disagree, but I think IPR is a better place for having his brand of crazy all over it. If anyone has a hand-me-down machine they’d be willing to send him, we could keep that crazy around.
If you resemble that description, you can reach Bob at r dot milnes [at] worldnet dot att dot net to get his mailing address …. MAYBE. That’s assuming his computer has a few more sessions left in it or that he can get to a public terminal to check his email. If you can’t reach him, try reaching me at kubby dot communications [at] gmail dot com, and I’ll keep trying for you.
Best regards,
Tom Knapp
glad to have you back Paulie , IPR sucked w/o you:)
Tom beat me to it by thirty seconds. Great minds think serendipously 🙂
Joey, listen to the show and read the old thread comments. Or for that matter read all of this story, above.
He ran because he was being tazed, which is dangerous to his life especially, given a heart condition – and can be deadly even for healthy people.
Joey,
Your “observational view” omits one key element: That he was not just “fleeing police,” but rather fleeing an unjustified and potentially lethal assault by police.
Yes, doing so “run[s] the risk of facing those sort of consequences,” but that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong thing to do.
The cop tried to kill him. Then he ran. Then another cop tried to kill him.
Hypothetically replace the cops’ badges with any other variety of gang colors and nobody would even think of questioning the wisdom or propriety of his actions.
I guess it depends on who you believe. Of course the police ALWAYS side with police so any inquest will find the police were justified. To me , that means squat.
If, just by an observational view, the story is correct that he fled police and refused to stop when told by police to stop, and then was shot, is anyone surprised?
Again, that’s if the police account is true. If he fled, was told to stop, didn’t stop, and was shot, then …you run the risk of facing those sort of consequences.
Gene,
Thanks, but I’m interested in discussion of what was said on the show, the topics raised, etc.
Did you listen to it? If so, any thoughts?
How about other people?
And I’m sure among those downloading the show are authorities in Las Vegas. I hope Jim is extremely careful with what he says in public forums.
Todd tells me quite a few people have downloaded the show.
I’d be interested in reactions, discussion, etc.
On the previous thread, Kevin O’Connell in #133 admits to being an anti-libertarian of the Mike Huben variety:
Yet, elsewhere in the thread O’Connell is full of advice for Libertarians, allegedly on how to be more successful; and in previous threads on IPR, O’Connell makes himself out to be a factional partisan of reform libertarians: see for example:
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/02/boston-tea-party-invites-other-party-groups-to-affiliate/comment-page-1/#comment-38943
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/07/peter-orvetti-can-the-libertarian-movement-welcome-%e2%80%9cmoderates%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-78465
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/07/peter-orvetti-can-the-libertarian-movement-welcome-%e2%80%9cmoderates%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-78499
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/07/rick-randall-time-to-oust-the-anarchists-from-the-libertarian-party/comment-page-1/#comment-78884
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/07/rick-randall-time-to-oust-the-anarchists-from-the-libertarian-party/comment-page-2/#comment-79340
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/08/brian-holtz-towards-a-st-louis-accord-for-the-libertarian-party/comment-page-1/#comment-90206
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/08/brian-holtz-towards-a-st-louis-accord-for-the-libertarian-party/comment-page-1/#comment-90563
So, which is it? Is O’Connell an anti-libertarian, a partisan of a faction in the libertarian movement, or somehow both? Inquiring minds want to know.
And if he is a Mike Huben style anti-libertarian as he indicates in comment 133, why would any libertarians think his advice on how we conduct ourselves, what codes we hold ourselves to, or our internal disagreements is well meant?
(In the referenced comments, Kevin does not use his last name, but he does use the same email address attached to those posts that he used to post the comments in the Duensing thread, and John C. refers to him as lightonliberty, which he does not dispute).
Anyone listen to the show?
Any thoughts on it?
And as for Jim, I haven’t been following his story, but I hope he’s doing better.
@8
I was glad that Jim was on the show last night. It gave him a chance to provide his account of what happened that night. And it also gave him a chance to refute his critics like Kevin O’Connell and Mike Renzulli.
Yours in Liberty,
Todd Andrew Barnett
Jim is a great guy and one heck of a Libertarian activist. I’m glad that he’s OK and I hope that he has a full recovery.
Feel better. I got my license a few weeks ago and got into my first car accident on Thursday then my second tonight. I’m mentally exhausted from being stuck along with a car that would barely move – and it was my mom’s car. Not exactly as dramatic as your story, but I’ve just been having a screwed up couple of days.
Ok, moneybags. Now you can afford that trip to Pittsburgh….oh, nevermind.
Looking forward to your report & continued reporting on the special election in MA in Jan.
RL
my eyes are tired, I haven’t slept last two nights (greyhound nighmare trip # I lost count a long time ago) and drank a shitload of coffee last night in Nashville so I couldn’t sleep today after I got to Alabama.
Finally made some good money in Mass., but I missed a chunk of it due to being sick, and the internal politics of the business was more crazy and ridiculous than I have ever seen.
I was crazy busy and had no internet access for the last month, very little access the month before that, but I’m back for at least a couple of weeks and trying to catch up on IPR, a mountain of correspondence, etc.
Oh yeah, and maybe get some sleep tonight for a change.
Hey paulie, how’s it going?
Answered at 136 (lg): “I guess Nathan issued a statement to the RJ directly but never sent out a press release to all media.”
Still working my way through the previous discussion.
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/10/former-nevada-lp-state-chair-shot-by-police-is-in-critical-condition/
at https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/10/former-nevada-lp-state-chair-shot-by-police-is-in-critical-condition/comment-page-6/#comment-124205 posted Nov 1, 2009 at 12:53 pm (comment 48), Denver Delegate quotes a Las Vegas Review Journal article which quotes the press release/draft posted by libertariangirl in comment 23.
However, in comment 83 posted Nov. 2, lg writes I prematurely posted our press release . I thought that our Chair , Nathan had posted it already and I was reposting it here.
I was wrong , nothin went out and I (like my usual big mouth) jumped the gun .
P: If nothing went out, did the Las Vegas Review Journal get material for an article from IPR comments? I am a little confused here….
maybe this is answered later in the old comment thread, I haven’t read past #83 yet.
http://www.publicani.com/giulianis-driver-brought-tasers-upon-us/: