Lynne Torgerson is running for Minnesota’s fifth Congressional district as an independent, against Democratic incumbent Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress. On Torgerson’s website, she claims that we cannot discriminate against anybody on the basis of religion, race, sex, etc, but she goes on to declare that Islam is not a religion protected under the First Amendment.
“What do I know about Islam?” Torgerson asks. She cites 9/11, Ft. Hood, a verse of the Quran, the memoir “Infidel,” and observing local Muslim women in downtown Minneapolis as formative events in her knowledge of Islam.
Of her incumbent opponent she says, “we have Keith Ellison with ties both to Islam and to CAIR. We have him also voting against funding the needs of our military. Keith Ellison has no business in our federal government.”
We’re going to be doing one thing and one thing only, killing Gnatzis.
Scalping: just giving a bonehead an even closer shave, lol
Exactly.
Carolyn Marbry, now that I have your attention…are you aware of the special elections in the next month or so? & my attempts-despite paulie’s negativism-to arrange an experimental vote coordination with Libs & Green candidates & voters?One is in Orange county. A Green, Jane Rands is running for State Assembly 72nd district. There is no Lib. Jan 12. Do you think you could help? Now there are 3 Libs running elsewhere. In GA on Jan 5 in Augusta Richmond county against 3 dems-no rep. In MA for U.S. Senate on Jan 19. In Mo on Feb 2. Again, can you get involved? George is involved in the campaign in MA but he has not yet responded to the idea of 4 experiments.
Race, schmace. Seriously, talk about focusing on one pine needle and missing the whole freaking forest… WHAT was the point again? Oh yeah, learning about that which one fears in order to focus one’s concern more reasonably and practically and quit jumping at shadows.
The point is, while racism against folks from the Middle East and subcontinent enters into people’s Islamophobia EVEN THOUGH ALL THOSE PEOPLE DON’T TECHNICALLY QUALIFY AS A SINGLE RACE — it’s more of an “they ain’t us” mentality amongst the monosyllabic mouth-breathers, which is usually how racism works anyway — it’s only part of it, which is why I said racism isn’t quite the right word in this case.
Catholic Trotskyist @ 40 & 41, I just happened onto this thread; not following it closely. I thought right wing women made you cream your jeans & piss your pants at the same time? Actually if Cavlan/Cannoli was a consensus, sure. Except for the paulie born in the ussr factoid. & paulie is correct that I propose m/pres/f vp, it is not etched in marble. It can be flexible. I just don’t see the point in pressing the American voter to vote for a f pres. & I would prefer to not leave them out of the ticket therefore vp.
Yo ISlamIslam moron, Obama is a secret Catholic marxist, not a secret Muslim marxist. Get over it.
Good guess, methinks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28classification_of_human_beings%29
The term race or racial group usually refers to the categorization of humans into populations or groups on the basis of various sets of heritable characteristics.[1] The physical features commonly seen as indicating race are salient visual traits such as skin color, cranial or facial features and hair texture.[1][2]
Conceptions of race, as well as specific ways of grouping races, vary by culture and over time, and are often controversial for scientific as well as social and political reasons. The controversy ultimately revolves around whether or not the socially constructed and perpetuated beliefs regarding race are biologically warranted; and the degree to which differences in ability and achievement are a product of inherited “racial” (i.e., genetic) traits.[3][4]
The term race is often used in taxonomy as a synonym for subspecies, in this sense human races are said not to exist, as taxonomically all humans are classified as the subspecies Homo sapiens sapiens.[5] Many scientists have pointed out that traditional definitions of race are imprecise, arbitrary, have many exceptions, have many gradations, and that the numbers of races delineated vary according to the culture making the racial distinctions. Thus, those rejecting the notion of race typically do so on the grounds that such definitions and the categorizations which follow from them are contradicted by the results of genetic research.[6]
Today many scientists study human genotypic and phenotypic variation using concepts such as “population” and “clinal gradation”. Large parts of the academic community take the position that, while racial categories may be marked by sets of common phenotypic or genotypic traits, the popular idea of “race” is a social construct without base in scientific fact.[7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14]
“People in the know” are very hard to credential. Names or even titles would be more useful. Otherwise I have to assume it’s the voices in your own head.
After 9/11, nobody called for martial law. Nobody set W up as absolute dictator. So that doesn’t really apply. Never mind that the population is pretty jaded now and is prone to more skepticism about such things.
“Word from whom and from where?”
From people in the know.
“I’d point out that Obama’s approval rating (~46-48% and falling) is nowhere near high enough to have more than a handful of frightened folk clamoring for anything of the kind.”
What was W’s approval rating before 9/11? How about his dad’s appproval rating before Saddam invaded Kuwait? Look it up and get back to me.
Word from whom and from where?
I’d point out that Obama’s approval rating (~46-48% and falling) is nowhere near high enough to have more than a handful of frightened folk clamoring for anything of the kind.
Well, Carolyn, as you may know, crisis=opportunity.
Obama will not impose a full Marxist/Sharia fascist system until after there is a major crisis leading to martial law, such as a major terrorist attack, banking/dollar collapse, or epidemic outbreak on a large scale. Word is that will happen this winter, and then the frightened populace will clamor for Obama to become an absolute dictator.
Okay, as an academic exercise, let’s assume Obama IS a card-carrying fundamentalist muslim in disguise, shaved off his narsty beard and everything JUST to run for President. Let’s he was trained in the best madrassas Saudi Arabia had to offer, and let’s say he and Bin Laden played in the sandbox together as kids.
Okay, so how exactly has he implemented anything resembling sharia law here? How exactly has he imposed any islamic influence on our government? I want specifics. Nationalized health care, while a horror all its own, is NOT islamic. Sending more soldiers (to fight WHOM?) is not islamic. So… help me out here, where has this supposed islamic/islamist influence crept in? And if none has crept in, if he is not the Mecca Candidate so many of you seem to think he is, then maybe — just maybe — that first amendment stuff about freedom of religion is okay after all…
Let’s take a look Ellison. What horrors of fundamentalist Islam has Keith Ellison perpetrated as one voice out of 500+ in Congress? Seriously.
So take a deep breath and take the time to learn something about what it is you fear. You may find that you aren’t nearly as fearful after that and you can actually sleep with the lights off.
“What is “race” exactly? It’s a social construct. There’s no biological fact that there are three, five, or x number of races. Indeed, if you go back through the history of the concept, the number of alleged “races” has varied widely.”
Hardly. There are quantifiable differences between races. They attributes are both distinguishable and wonderful.
And yes, of course the number of alleged races has varied widely, just as the number of languages or types of math have-because we discover new ones.
Middle Eastern is not a race, it is a geographic connotation, nothing more.
Mike, you necessarily don’t have to support any candidates that I support.
No, I lay back and enjoyed the Clinton experience along with you, Monica Lewinsky, and many others.
And since you did not vote for McCain-Palin, you are responsible for what is to come.
_________________
Wow what a pathetic attempt at slamming third party voters. Tell me are clowns like you still bitching about Ross Perot?
I see you have learned the official cover story of the ObamaNation quite well. Congratulations for the masterful regurgitation!
“Obama is a secret Mohammetan whose real father was Indonesian, he was really born in Indonesia (not Hawaii) and was trained as a subversive Islamic terrorist in a radical madrassa.”
Dur hurr. His father was a Kenyan atheist who was raised Muslim. He went to a school that was predominantly Muslim, and then a Catholic one after that.
His step-father, who was Indonesian, was Muslim, but not at all religious.
But what do I know? I’m just a dhimmi apologist.
“By the way, I am not a muslim. I’m an atheist, someone who in an Islamic republic would be in fear for my life. I’m also a woman, which means I am doubly aware of the dangers of a religion like that taking control of a government. That’s a separate issue. Thankfully it’s not one we will ever need to contend with here.”
Hah, you got punked!
Obama is a secret Mohammetan whose real father was Indonesian, he was really born in Indonesia (not Hawaii) and was trained as a subversive Islamic terrorist in a radical madrassa.
We are already under the rule of radical Muslim terrorists like Obama and Ellison. This is not some hypothetical future nightmate, it is already happening.
This winter will see the collapse of the dollar, food shortages, bank collapses and starvation. Martial law will be installed with socialist people’s tribunals and Sharia law in America.
And since you did not vote for McCain-Palin, you are responsible for what is to come.
Seriously, do these thugs spend all day Googling “Islam”? It seems like on every forum, when Islam is mentioned, one of these dickheads pops up copy/pasting from TheReligionofPeace.com
Obvious troll is obvious.
Abdulameer, you’ve played salad bar with the Quran. As Paulie said, you can do the same with the Old Testament and the New, for that matter.
Have you looked at Surah 109? I’m sure you have, but I’m equally sure you dismissed it because it didn’t support your thesis. Here it is:
“In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Merciful.
Say : O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship.
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your way, and to me mine. ”
I know, a religious book contradicting itself, first time EVER. 🙂
My point is, fundamentalists of any stripe will find justification for their hate in their religious book and they will reject justification for acceptance and tolerance because it isn’t their cup of tea. Good thing not all muslims are fundamentalists, isn’t it?
Consider the Inquisition. Consider the pogroms against the Jews. Consider the Crusades. And this, all springing from the New Testament that is full of passages about love and tolerance and turning the other cheek and so forth.
So while you can use a religious book to understand a religion and get a basic grasp of the beliefs of the followers, you can’t stop there. While you can see where terrorists get their justification for what they’ve done, what you can also see is the justification of the American Muslims who do NOT do these things because they have learned, either from studying surah 109 or from knowing and understanding our Constitution, to accept freedom of religion for all.
Islam itself is only a religion, like Christianity or any other. But like any belief system, even political belief systems, it can be turned to evil purposes by people who would use it to control others. If you waste all your energy hating innocent muslims, you will miss the not-so-innocent of other belief systems who will come right up and stab you in the back.
By the way, I am not a muslim. I’m an atheist, someone who in an Islamic republic would be in fear for my life. I’m also a woman, which means I am doubly aware of the dangers of a religion like that taking control of a government. That’s a separate issue. Thankfully it’s not one we will ever need to contend with here.
My point is that you’re judging all muslims, including American muslims who are practically methodist when all is said and done, by the actions of some whackjob fundamentalists. Imagine if I judged all Christians by what snake handlers believed.
Hmmm, shall we get into Old Testament verses too?
Let’s be real here.
There is good reason to be concerned about Islam and about Keith Ellison’s disloyalty to America. There is no way that a person can be loyal both to the Koran and our Constitution, and Ellison is loyal to the Koran. All religious Moslems must consider the Koran and the sayings of Muhammad to be sacrosanct. Here is some of what all religious Moslems must be loyal to:
FROM THE KORAN:
–“ the (only) religion (acceptable) before God is Islam.” (3:19)
— ” If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him.” (3: 85)
— “You are the noblest community ever raised up for mankind.” (3:110)
— The unbelievers among the people of the book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. (98.6).
— Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve. (8.55)
–The unbelievers are your inveterate enemy. (4:101)
— Mohammed is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. (48:29).
— It is unlawful for a believer to kill another believer, accidents excepted. (4:92)
— Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. (5:51)
— Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)
— Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. (2:193)
— The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. (4:76)
— We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. (3:151)
— I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers. (8:12)
FROM THE SAYINGS OF MUHAMMAD:
— Muhammad said to the Jews: “If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. “
— Allah’s Apostle said, “You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, ‘O ‘Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’ ”
— Mohammed said, “I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and whoever says, ” None has the right to be worshipped but Allah , his life and property will be saved by me.” (otherwise it will not). Vol. 4:196
— Mohammed said, “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” Vol. 9:57
— Mohammed said, ” No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir” (infidel). Vol. 9:50
— Muhammad said: “Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, …”
Trent,
What is “race” exactly? It’s a social construct. There’s no biological fact that there are three, five, or x number of races. Indeed, if you go back through the history of the concept, the number of alleged “races” has varied widely.
“Middle easterner” is a race to the extent that people think it is. And to that extent, it is somewhat of a race. I’ve had people tell me I’m not white based on my appearance, which is somewhat Middle Eastern. Those same people would probably lump in a Lebanese Christian and a Pakistani Muslim together into whatever category you want to call it.
I was born in the USSR, and additionally, as I understand the PLAS, I’m not qualified due to my plumbing.
While some people may consider the vice presidency to be worth going through sexual reasignment surgery, I’m not one of those.
“I didn’t claim it was. I know right well that “Middle Eastern” isn’t a race in the strictest sense, but in practical terms, that would be closer to actual “racism” than attacking people for a common religion.”
“Middle Eastern” isn’t a race in the SLIGHTEST sense, so no, it definitely isn’t in the strictest sense either. And no, in practical terms Middle Eastern refers to a person within a particular geographic area, not a race, which is no closer to racism than referring to a common religion. Geography isn’t race just like religion isn’t race. To say otherwise is pure poppycock.
“So knowing I’d probably get dinged for it, I abbreviated ALL THIS into “Middle Eastern.””
A simple grasp of English enables you to make both an accurate AND condensed statement. You could have said, “The majority of Muslims live within the Middle East”
However, your protests are pretty futile–as what you were trying to say is also incorrect. Although the Middle East is regarded as the heartland of the Islamic world, the majority of its adherents live in Asia or Africa (outside of the Middle East). The most populous muslim communities by country are Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and India. Nigeria, Russia, North Africa, China, etc all have large communities too.
Indeed, even if one includes North Africa in the Middle East, which one shouldn’t do, the region makes up only 20% of the total Muslim population of the world. About 60% is in non-Middle Eastern Asia and the Pacific. The rest is in Sub-Saharan Africa, with a small percentage abroad.
So no, your explanation doesn’t fit things. A simply admittance of misspeaking is necessary.
slurs do not necessarily have to do with hate
ties to Islam? creepy but funny
Had I said “Arabic,” that would have left out the Persians in all their diversity as well as the subcontinent. I did not want to get into all the various groups and police myself for complete and accurate inclusion of all possible local ethnicities. So knowing I’d probably get dinged for it, I abbreviated ALL THIS into “Middle Eastern.” Pakistanis of my acquaintance would ding me for including their Islamic republic in with the Middle East since they eschew that connection. There’s no pleasing everyone, and my goal was to get the point across that HATE IS BAD.
“In the midst of attempting to claim this wasn’t racism, you made a classic blunder. Middle Eastern isn’t a race.”
I didn’t claim it was. I know right well that “Middle Eastern” isn’t a race in the strictest sense, but in practical terms, that would be closer to actual “racism” than attacking people for a common religion.
People are often hateful to ALL Middle Easterners together, regardless of strict “race,” and it was shorter to put it that way.
I have personally met Keith Ellison, though I did not discuss Catholic Trotskyism with him. i protected him from an angry LaRouche supporter.
Even though he abandoned the Catholic faith, he will certainly be a leader of the Islamic section of Catholic Trotskyism. He is the greatest congressman, other than Dennis Kucinich and the modernday prophet Isaiah, Bart Stupak. It makes me laugh that Torgerson, Kavlan and the other independents and third parties and the Republican candidate, will think they can win but they will really just divide the anti-Ellison votes, and the wise man Ellison will win by a landslide. Happy Hanukkah and Ramadan and Adven tand Christmas, amen.
Mike Indiana, good point about TPR, his endorsement definitely is worthless.
Robert Milnes, are you watching this thread? The real PLAS strategy should be to run a Kavlan/Canoli ticket for President.
Right-wing women are fascinating.
Third Party Revolution @8
“We here at Third Party Revolution endorse Lynne Torgerson in her campaign for Minnesota’s 5th Congressional District, along with many other third party and independent candidates seeking public offices nationwide, ranging from local to federal levels.”
This proves how worthless his (not WE) endorsement really is, he’ll endorse any whack job. Since an endorsement is a approval or sanction Third Party Revolution (facebook group has no policy of endorsing all third party independent candidates, He falsely makes this claim) while not necessarily personally a racist full of religous hate, HE thinks this behavior is OK and supports it. Lynne Torgerson is not only a Racist she is ignorant as well, with a narrow view of history. Further more she seems to have a problem with the American values of Freedom of Speech, and Freedom of Religion. While Torgerson professes to be a Christian, she is one in name only.
37 – fixed
33 – she does not claim to be libertarian
35 – one more…
Can someone please remove my previous post from the spam box?
Hey, I’m also part Mongolian. We invented the clusterfuck!
😛
Paulie
Ahhhhh thanks for the Sharpie Old School Two Tone Ska wander down memory lane.
T\B/B
Tullygally Boot Boys
I loved the picture of a bone head looking shocked when two Oi Sharpies with bats are smiling, right behind him.
Classic man.
Oh and I agree about the Palestinian Jew thing.
It really is a cluster fuck, isn’t it?
“(not race, even though it is predominantly Middle Eastern). ”
In the midst of attempting to claim this wasn’t racism, you made a classic blunder. Middle Eastern isn’t a race. Perhaps you meant Arabic, but Arabs only make up 10% of Muslims worldwide, so that’d be incorrect too. Islam is a VERY diverse religion.
Torgerson’s website indicates that she’s anti-choice on abortion, is opposed to gay marriage, and is an economic protectionist.
Her statements also indicate that she opposes open immigration, supports foreign aid for Israel, and is a saber-rattler on Iran.
Certainly, she’s no libertarian.
http://www.torgersonforcongress.org/id2.html
We’re going to be doing one thing and one thing only, killing Gnatzis.
Palestinians are a lot like Jews. Kicked out of their country, treated as second class citizens, used as scapegoats and political pawns.
Folks keep trying to call this racism, but that’s not quite the right word. Islam is a combination of religion and culture (not race, even though it is predominantly Middle Eastern).
The correct word is hate. Bigoted, ignorant hate. I bet not ONE of the “Islam bashers” here has even cracked open the Quran, much less studied it for years like I have. Yes, there’s a lot of violent nasty stuff in there. Yes, it’s an ideology that lends itself in its most fundamentalist form to destruction and intolerance. So yes, it’s important to keep an eye on its more enthusiastic and violence-prone practitioners and not play the cultural relativism game.
That said, I… think for you Islam slammers to try to argue that point would be a definite pot-kettle-black scenario.
This isn’t the place to discuss the virtue or vice of Islam. It’s a place to discuss the virtue or vice of blanket hate, and there IS no virtue to it. It doesn’t matter if that hate is leveled against Muslims or Gays or soldiers or police or gay muslim military police or what, it’s generalized hate against people you’ve never even met, which by definition means it’s unjustified. EVEN IF you can say “I’ve met a Muslim/Gay/Latino/Blond/whatever, and s/he was an ass,” you haven’t met ALL of them, so where do you get off hating all of them blanketly?
This kind of ignorant xenophobia should have died out ages ago. How absurd do we find people now who still refer to Germans as “the Hun” or to Japanese folks as “Japs?” We’re bigger than that. We’re better than that.
Religious persecution is against the first amendment, whether it’s Islam or LDS or Scientology or even the freakin Branch Davidians. If you call yourself a patriot, you simply cannot justify excluding an entire major faith from that protection when it does not break laws. Only when and if they break the law of the land are people subject to sanction. Not religions. People. Individuals. So the day Torgerson can show where Keith Ellison has done so is the day any given party should consider endorsing her, and not a moment before.
ROFLMFAO
Oi Vey and Shoire and begorrah.
No wonder we get on so fucking well.
So of course, this opens up the whole Palestine can o worms.
I would still gladly kick Nazi ass with you Brother, any old day.
Good Lad Paulie
Dia Duith Agus Go Raibh Maith Agat Mo Chara
(Gods Blessing and My Thanks Goes To You My Friend)
Wait, if I say God bless you to a REAL Libertarian, is that OK?
LOL
By request
Paulie
LOVED that anti-fasc Oi music.
Here is one of my favs. From a guy in Belfast called Ciaran Murphy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDbtk3w125U
It is for all the racist idiots here and around the world.
If you could make it a full page thing on here, that would be REALLY cool
Irish Anti-Racist Pride Is In The House
I am an old school skin’ead. From the two tone days. Before DOC MARTINS even.
Oi
Oi!!!
IPR has obtained exclusive photos from a Torgeson campaign rally…
Believe me, I know. We get one of these assholes every month on Current.com.
About what I said above.
I noticed, that all the Islamophobes from that website seem to act as some sort of hive mind. They use the same vocabulary (“dhimmi”) and the same arguments, as well as the same wordy criticisms of people who disagree with them (“Dhimmi leftist apologist enabler leftards”).
Considering this is the same state Michelle Bachmann came from are we really that surprised?
“All the nazi skin’s in the Twin Cities will be busting ass on this campaign, were right behind you Lynne! Sieg Heil!”
And you, go back to the pond where you congealed.
“She’s correct. What is “absurd” is the idiocy of the leftists enablers who are the first to go whenever Islamic hardliners come into power.”
Go back to your hate site –> thereligionofpeace.com
Funny how we got some comments from ReligionofPeace.com stormtroopers.
Not that I agree with Torgerson, but I find her candidacy somewhat fitting. The Dumbocrats created a self fulfilling prophecy here. You should have seen how they cried about how the Independence Party candidate Tammy Lee was just a big “white backlash” candidate against their black Muslim in 2006.
Great going, Dems. I guess if you whine about race and religion enough, a real racist finally manifests form the pixie dust of far left nightmares.
Yep, that’s normal in scare quotes, as it should be…
Michael, I just read your wiki. Scary. Why can’t MN come up with some ‘normal’ candidates to represent us ‘normal’ folk?
ROFL. Sounds like typical boneheads. Oi! Cheers…
There is no organized neo-nazis in Minneapolis.
Last time they came in Minneapolis, from Austin, Minnesota where they are strongest (all FOUR of them) they had their asses kicked.
The Minneapolis PD saved their chicken shit asses. I know cuz I was there.
The ARA Sharpie skins are a GREAT crew, let me tell you.
As for this woman, damn it’s the best that the right wing fruit loops got. She makes Alan Fine look normal.
LOLOL
Oi!!!!!!
Old school skin’ead.
Third Way Revolution! hell yeah!
We here at Third Party Revolution endorse Lynne Torgerson in her campaign for Minnesota’s 5th Congressional District, along with many other third party and independent candidates seeking public offices nationwide, ranging from local to federal levels.
All the nazi skin’s in the Twin Cities will be busting ass on this campaign, were right behind you Lynne! Sieg Heil!
*twinkle*
Ok right wing, racist, bigoted fruit loopery aside.
Congressman Keith Ellison is “my” Congressman. Well OK, he ain’t mine he is “theirs.”
He will be facing challenges from other sources as well. From right here in Minneapolis, Minnesot-ah.
Yup, guess who folks. From a long time, outspoken peace and justice activist. There are a LOT of people very very pissed off at keith and well, the entire pro-war, corporate corrupted two party system.
As for this crazy woman, I look forward to engaging her in a debate. As an American who lived in a poor Catholic neighbourhood in northern Ireland. Who has experiences personally, bigotry and intolerance because of my CATHOLIC RELIGION.
I will tear this nut job apart. then work on Congressman Ellison.
Have lots of fun doing it too.
It will be made public in about three weeks.
I will be campaigning for real. It is part of the reason that I only ran a paper campaign when I ran for City Council in Ward 8.
let the games begin.
She’s correct. What is “absurd” is the idiocy of the leftists enablers who are the first to go whenever Islamic hardliners come into power.
I love Lynne…Lynne will WIN.
How absurd.
Lynne’s got my vote!