Libertarian Party Executive Director Wes Benedict appears on FOX’s Freedom Watch

Posted at LP blog:

On February 4, LP Executive Director Wes Benedict appeared on FOX’s Freedom Watch with Judge Andrew Napolitano. Benedict talked about libertarianism and the Libertarian Party.

[The LP blog also has the video]

100 thoughts on “Libertarian Party Executive Director Wes Benedict appears on FOX’s Freedom Watch

  1. Eric Dondero

    You’ve got Republicans out there “scaring voters to death over terrorism…”

    Hmmn? Benedict is from Texas. Does he have no sympathies for the 13 people who died at the hands of an Islamic Radical Terrorist Maj. Nidal Malik Hassan at Ft. Hood?

    In fact, Benedict is from Austin, a mere 60 miles away from Killeen (Ft. Hood.)

    My gosh, what a crass comment by the LP Exec. Dir. Hey Wes, 300 Americans nearly died on Dec. 25 over the skies of Detroit at the hands of a Nigerian Islamic extremist. Imagine if one of your family members was on that plane.

  2. Thomas L. Knapp

    Attacking military personnel on a military base is not “terrorism.”

    Setting your own balls on fire is terrorism if the intent in doing so is to kill civilians in order to terrorize … but nobody “nearly died” in that incident.

  3. Eric Dondero

    Knapp, it wasn’t just military personnel who were attacked at Ft. Hood. If you remember, the two cops who finally shot Hasan were civilian police. One of them was shot four times.

    You’re a pro-lifer aren’t you? That unborn baby in the womb of one of the soldiers would qualify as a “civilian,” don’t you think?

    As far as the Christmas bomber, the explosive material lit the fueselage on fire. Reports are that the fire climbed the walls on both sides before being extinguished by the crew.

    I’d say that was quite terrifying for those on the plane, particularly those closest to AdbulMutallab.

  4. Root of the problem

    Allah Akhbar!

    As part of his righteous Jihad against the infidel Vain Root, Imam Phillies sends the following to someone who sent it to someone else who sent it to your humble Haji servant….

    —————————————————–

    “Root threatens Benedict with ‘If this isn’t news worthy…then we need a new Exec Director who can see that it is.’ ”

    1) ROOT THREATENS BENEDICT

    Subject: ROOT for Wes
    Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:04:00 -0800
    From: rootintl
    To: wes benedict LP HQ , aaron AA Starr
    CC: robert.kraus@lp.org LPHQ

    Wes,

    Here is the list of my media appearances this week…16 in all (although I expect a few more on Friday & Saturday)…including 7 national radio shows…IN ONE WEEK!

    I must tell you Wes…If this isn’t news worthy…then we need a new Exec Director who can see that it is. If you don’t want to put this list up on LP web site…I’d like a straight answer why? And trust me when I tell you, I’m not taking this laying down. This is NEWS that all Libertarians should welcome hearing. We have a bright star in the mainstream media…who is branding the LP. Trust me…you and I are going to have MULTIPLE conversations about this starting next week.
    Wayne

    National Radio “Jim Blasingame’s Small Business Advocate”

    WXLM Radio “The Lee Elci Show” New London, CT

    WATR Radio “The Larry Rifkin Show” Waterbury, CT

    WINA Radio “The Rob Schilling Show” Charlottesville, Virginia

    National Radio “The Jerry Doyle Show” Talk Radio Network

    National Radio “The Big Biz Show with Sully & Russ” CBS Radio/TV San Diego/Business Talk Radio

    KIRO AM Radio “The Dori Monson Show” Seattle, WA.

    Blog Talk Radio “The Andrea Shea King Show”

    National Radio “The Thom Hartmann Show”

    KION AM Radio “The Mark Carbonaro Show” Salinas, CA

    National Radio “The Rusty Humphries Show”

    WNJC AM Radio “The Brian Greenberg Show” Philadelphia, PA

    KLZR AM Radio “The Chris Merrill show” Lawrence, Kansas

    National Radio “The Allan Handelman Show”

    1039 FM Radio “Gadger in the Morning” Phoenix, Arizona

    National Radio “Mancow in the Morning with Mancow Muller”

    2) WES BENEDICT FORWARD TO LNC

    ———- Forwarded message ———-
    From: Wes Benedict
    Date: Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:27 AM
    Subject: [Lnc-discuss] Root seeking coverage on LP.org blog
    To: Discussion LNC

    I do want to give our candidates for public office and LNC positions as much coverage as is practical and also fair. I think we have lots of rules in this area. See the request below from Mr. Root. [ED: That is Message 1, Above]

    I prefer when I have links to a video, article and/or a recording. I welcome your suggestions.

    Thanks,


    Wes Benedict, Executive Director
    Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
    2600 Virginia Ave. N.W., Suite 200
    Washington, D.C. 20037
    (202) 333-0008 ext. 222
    (202) 333-0072 (fax)
    wes.benedict@lp.org
    Join the Libertarian Party at: https://www.lp.org/membership

    3) WRIGHTS RESPONSE

    From: R. Lee Wrights
    Date: Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 3:36 PM
    Subject: Re: [Lnc-discuss] Root seeking coverage on LP.org blog
    To: Wes Benedict
    Cc: Discussion LNC

    Seems like Mr. Root is making veiled threats himself. Not very Libertarian at all.

    This coming from someone billing himself as a “Reagan Libertarian.” Now, we all know that President Reagan was “never” a Libertarian. In my mind, “I am a Reagan Libertarian” is political-speak for, “I am still a Republican.” Seeing how President Reagan lived and died as a Republican, I know of no other way to define the term.

    I consider Mr. Root’s representation of being a “Reagan Libertarian” as a misrepresentation of the Libertarian brand that many of us have spent years building up.

    Just my two-pennies’ worth,
    Lee Wrights, At-large

    4) HAWKRIDGE RESPONSE

    From: Rachel H. for LPWA Communications
    Date: Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 2:24 PM
    Subject: Re: [Lnc-discuss] Root seeking coverage on LP.org blog
    To: Wes Benedict , Discussion LNC

    Wes –

    Is this the first time that Mr. Root has threatened you?

    Unlike my colleague Mr. Wrights, I don’t think this is veiled.

    Act In Liberty,

    Rachel Hawkridge
    Chair, Libertarian Party of Washington
    Libertarian National Committee
    Region 7 Representative
    http://www.LNCRegion7.blogspot.com

    “When you see that in order to produce, you must obtain permission from men who produce nothing … and your laws don’t protect you against them but protect them against you … you may know that your society is doomed.”
    — Francisco d’Anconia in Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged

  5. Root of the problem

    From: Steve LaBianca
    Date: Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM

    Subject: Re: [Lnc-discuss] Root seeking coverage on LP.org blog
    To: Wes Benedict
    Cc: Discussion LNC

    It seems that if W.A.R. gets elected as LNC chair, that would be his first order of business – hiring “a new Exec Director who can see . . .”; what – that W.A.R. is the greatest promotion for the libertarian movement since Robert Nozick’s “Anarchy, State, and Utopia?”

    Since I avoid seeing W.A.R.’s image and voice at all costs, I don;t know what BS he’s spouting, but I really do wonder just how much he is “branding the LP”, and how much he is “branding W.A.R.”. I’m certain he’s “branding ” lots of conservative crap, adding in the LP here and there (as if the two are synonymous). I’m pretty sure W.A.R. has reduced his “IslamoFascist” rhetoric, but I highly doubt he’s actually changed his warmongering, foreign interventionist, upholding the drug war sentiments, though.

    I guess the conservative talk show hosts are buying lots of used cars (lemons) these days, thinking they’re buying liberty.

    Ugggh . . . the guy just gives me the creeps, especially that his ideas are getting out there under the guise of “libertarianism”.

    Steve LaBianca
    Region 7 Alternate

    ———- Forwarded message ———-
    From: Mary Ruwart
    Date: Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 3:17 PM
    Subject: Re: [Lnc-discuss] Root seeking coverage on LP.org blog
    To: Wes Benedict , Discussion LNC

    Since Mr. Root is running for LNC Chair, as well as the LP presidential nomination in 2012, posting his schedule will require us to post Ernie Hancock’s multitude of appearances if we are to be fair. I don’t know if Mr. Hinkle or Mr. Phillies has a schedule, but they also could object if we don’t post what they have.

    I visited both Mr. Root’s Facebook page and website, http://www.rootforamerica.com/. I couldn’t find a calendar of upcoming events on either site. Why should we post Mr. Root’s schedule on the LP site, if he is not posting on his own?

    Finally, if Mr. Root’s discourteous behavior towards Mr. Benedict is an indication of how he intends to supervise staff, we are unlikely to have an ED for long. Mr. Benedict, you may recall, just increased our monthly pledges almost 19% between August and September and upped monthly donations during the same time over 30% (see second page of numbers in our Treasurer’s report for December). Mr. Benedict deserves our respect and thanks; any LP member wanting to see the Party on firm financial footing should have the good sense to treat him accordingly.

  6. George Phillies

    Mr. Benedict has done some excellent things as our Party’s Executive Director, such as clearing up the very bad email bounce situation that led to vast quantities of LNC emails being blocked by major ISPs, such as RoadRunner, as obvious spam. Thanks to Mr. Benedict’s hard work, much of this problem has been fixed, and we are reaching far more members electronically than was previously the case.

    I heartily endorse Mary Ruwart’s above statement.

  7. Eric Sundwall

    Finally the neo_liberofabian one hundred year, ten percent plan revealed ! kudos wes . . . solid showing.

    I hear ya Wayne ! My boy hit the AP wire, 3 or 4 TV/radio interviews, bunch a print stuff, a front page on two locals and nada from IPR because we’re going to spar in the big circus tent too. Go figga . . .

  8. Robert Milnes

    The reactionary MSM media is only going to allow reactionaries on. MAYBE an occasional counterrevolutionary RON PAUL. Unless the LP can show some NEWS-significant polling. PLAS. PLAS/FET. Progressive Libertarian Alliance Strategy/Fusion Executive Ticket.

  9. Robert Milnes

    I had expressed some reservations about “reactionary Wes”. But with this from W.A.R. & all the support Wes is getting from rads, I’ll reconsider that.

  10. James Oaksun

    With the massive loss of institutional memory we’ve had the last 3-5 years, the danger is that for the majority of current LP members Mr Root is now a public face of something that is being called “libertarianism”. Perhaps people should reflect on whether that is a good thing. I know how most of my friends would respond.

  11. Stewart Flood

    Dr Phillies’ comments contain at least one highly inaccurate statement about actions taken by our Executive Director.

    Mr Benedict did not have anything to do with the recent correction of the problem with e-mail bouncing for those taking the bylaws survey. In fact, Mr Benedict told the LNC that he felt that there was no reason to bother correcting the problem.

    I disagreed, pointed out the cause of the problem as well as the solution. I was later directed by the Chair to coordinate the resolution of the problem.

    I contacted the vendor and explained the problem and the method of resolution (an incorrect internal host name that did not match the name assigned to the IP address). The problem was resolved, decreasing email failures from more than 30% to around 8% — a much more expected number.

    I have worked with our operations director in the past to correct similar issues. E-mail bouncing is an ongoing problem which is compounded by servers that mistakenly interpret opt-in email as spam and then block delivery.

    Mr Kraus deals with this on a frequent basis, correcting issues as they arise and are reported. The problem last month was not corrected by staff and was not believed to be a serious issue worthy of correction by our Executive Director.

    There is a very long string of e-mail messages that supports the statement that I have just made, including several by Mr Benedict in which he openly stated that it was not an important issue. The LNC disagreed.

    Stewart Flood
    Region 4 Representative

  12. Bruce Cohen

    I think Wayne had a legit point to bring up with Wes.

    I would think Wes would be sending Wayne enough thank you cards to clear a small forest, too.

    I mean, for keeping us all in the news, and all.

    Did Wayne not do a pretty kinda/sorta maybe ok job of getting the word “Libertarian” on TV we like to have that happen on? Or not?

    I’m just wondering.

    Oh, and Stewart.
    Thanks, bud.
    It’s quite often the unsung volunteer who makes things happen and work.

    And like in the California LP right now, the lack of any that is the problem.

    Why do people like to cheat and take credit for another’s work and effort is beyond me.

    Aren’t Libertarians ethically grounded, or what?

  13. Don Lake .......... per

    Bruce Cohen // Feb 6, 2010:
    “Aren’t Libertarians ethically grounded?”

    You know the reformist sad tales of woe [Frank MacKay buying a national position; John Blare killing stories of Israeli attacks on American non combatants; other misdirection[s] on partisan communications]

    Libertarian lack of ethics [starting in 1971 ??????], oh like the Sandy Ego County Sand Paper Twins, Edward Tesslier and Richard Rider ??????

    FINALLY printed one piece of my six part series on the possible privatization of California’s corrupt, lethal veterans care campuses. [I was told that it was published, I’ve never seen it ………….]

    After I failed to down load the same, I asked for a gratis copy. After turning down request after request for a $25 annual kick in, I was quoted $5 for a copy of the quoted issue.

    Tick tock, tick tock. It never arrived.

    I finally cornered Tesslier at one of Ken Bourke’s events. [Bourke use to be periannal Lib candidate, but finally got tired of the BS.]

    Ed dodged the pay back/ refund, but finally ponied up.When I counted the five ones, he claimed to be insulted. He asked me, in a room full of people, if I did not trust the LP.

    I replied, “no”!

  14. paulie Post author

    Dr Phillies’ comments contain at least one highly inaccurate statement about actions taken by our Executive Director.

    Mr Benedict did not have anything to do with the recent correction of the problem with e-mail bouncing for those taking the bylaws survey. In fact, Mr Benedict told the LNC that he felt that there was no reason to bother correcting the problem.

    I thought the reference was to the LP email list, not the survey?

    BTW Stewart…give me a call when you get a minute…and/or give Anna a call if you haven’t already.

  15. Thomas L. Knapp

    “I would think Wes would be sending Wayne enough thank you cards to clear a small forest, too.

    “I mean, for keeping us all in the news, and all”

    Did Abe Foxman send thank you cards to Meier Kahane?

  16. Bruce Cohen

    I’ve only ever heard nice things about Ryder and Teyssier. Teyssier got married and has a baby.

    Geez, and I thought it was only me that knew how to make friends.

  17. Stewart Flood

    Our state/county conventions are over as of today. Candidates are all off and running (and with actual staff who are LP activists!)…I just need tonight to grab 40 winks and I’ll be back on regional/national stuff in the morning. I’ll give you a call then.

    On the other topic: whether the reference was to the email list or to the survey, it is Robert who normally deals with e-mail problems. If Wes has taken on the task of sending white-list requests to ISP’s then he’s doing something that others on staff are capable of dealing with.

    To Bruce — being unsung is fine most of the time.

    And a general comment regarding the actual topic of this thread:

    I believe that this was Wes’ first interview on this program. He was treated quite fairly and I thought that he did very well in the interview. He wasn’t overly optimistic and he wasn’t excessively pessimistic either. He gave a far opinion of how he felt things are going and it resonated as being an honest answer.

    Was it media dazzle? No. But he wasn’t hired as a media expert. Some people will continue to pick apart every word he said, but if you look at the interview as a whole it was quite good. Not as good as a presidential candidate would be expected to do, but certainly as good as I’d expect from our ED.

    I call the interview a success.

    Stewart

  18. paulie Post author

    Ruwart:

    Since Mr. Root is running for LNC Chair, as well as the LP presidential nomination in 2012, posting his schedule will require us to post Ernie Hancock’s multitude of appearances if we are to be fair.

    I see no problem with covering Root as well as Hancock. They would have to both make sure national gets their clips. If Phillies and Hinkle get media and send copies to LPHQ, I see nothing wrong with them getting coverage.

    Of course, LPHQ staff are busy, so it’s not likely that they can do a blog entry for every single candidate appearance.

  19. paulie Post author

    Our state/county conventions are over as of today. Candidates are all off and running (and with actual staff who are LP activists!)…

    Awesome! Please (have them) keep us in the loop.

    I just need tonight to grab 40 winks and I’ll be back on regional/national stuff in the morning. I’ll give you a call then.

    Quite understandable, and thanks!

  20. Carol Moore

    The bottom line is – can the Libertarian Party be bought by any self-styled libertarian/libertarian-conservative/libertarian-neocon/libertarian-democrat etc who can ante up the dough.

  21. Chuck Moulton

    Root’s tone to Wes is very inappropriate.

    I would like to see the LP blog cover more Libertarian candidates. In my view the party is all about candidates.

    Giving coverage to someone who is not currently a candidate for public office isn’t the job of staff. And favoring one candidate for internal party office — especially to the exclusion of others in the process — is a conflict of interest for staff.

    For the larger issue, if Root thinks his vote totals for Chair will match his vote totals for President or Vice-President, he is in for a rude awakening. The skill set most delegates seek in a Chair are very different than the skill set most delegates seek in a presidential candidate. In the latter media friendliness and speaking ability are among the most important; whereas, for the former management ability, familiarity and comfort with the board, ability to delicately handle controversies, and libertarian purity all take priority over media. At least that’s my read on it.

  22. Don Lake .......... 'in your dreams' ............

    Bruce Cohen // Feb 6, 2010:
    “I’ve only ever heard nice things about Ryder and Teyssier. [He said after complaining about the chair of San Diego County and taking the fingers out of his ears ……….]

    Teyssier got married and has a baby. [and that has what to do with the price of Liberty in North Americans ?????? You Objectarians are some of the most illogical folks around. Bourke [Realtor] and I are in the white pages.

    And I invite you to call me. Lower numbers and snide remarks and acts and attitudes by the Sand Paper duo. Yeah like you know what is going on in California.

    Your take on human behavior: Doctor Tim McGraw and I would like to know how that ‘ is going for you ‘ given your latest round of inter action with LPCa ……….

    Hope any and all 2010 potential recruits are far far away from IPR and do not have their reading glasses near by ……….

    Geez, and I thought it was only me that knew how to make friends.

  23. Root Smears the Word "Libertarian"

    Bruce Cohen: Did Wayne not do a pretty kinda/sorta maybe ok job of getting the word “Libertarian” on TV we like to have that happen on? Or not?

    Root does get the word “Libertarian” into the media, but he simultaneously smears that word by his very association with it.

    Most voters are saying: “Oh, so that’s what a Libertarian is? Yuk!”

  24. Eric Dondero

    Wayne Root is winning back the word libertarian from the leftwing America-haters who have tried to co-opt the term.

    I go way, way, way back with the Libetarian Party. I served on the Libertarian National Committee as a youngster straight out of the Navy in 1986/87. I can remember an active and vibrant Pro-Defense contingent in the LP back then. In fact, the LP was all about “Pro-Choice on Everything” back in the 80s, and not isolationist/Hate America foreign policy (well, except for that schmuck Bergland who we all hated.)

    Nowadays, if you’re Pro-Defense, there’s only one home for you: the Republican Liberty Caucus. The last final Pro-Defense hold-outs like Root, Cohen and Holtz, are holding on by the skin of their teeth.

    It would be a real shame if the LP casted out the final remnants of Pro-America/Pro-Military Libertarians, and became entirely America-hating.

    But if that happens, Root, Cohen, Holtz & Co. need to know that they’ll be entirely welcome in the REAL LIBERTARIAN NOT SOME FUCKED UP LEFTIST AMERICA-HATING FUCKHEADS POSING AS LIBERTARIANS organization like the LP is vastly becomming, and as represented by Benedict’s idiotic America-hating comment, that there’s no longer any threat from Islamic terrorism, and that “Republicans are just scaring people.”

  25. Eric Dondero

    Notice the commenter above who wrote that Wayne Root is “smearing” the word libertarian, posted under Anonymous. He was too chick-shit to post under his own name.

    Hey fuckface: My name is Eric Dondero Rittberg. I live at 6 Chuck Wagon Ct. Angleton, Texas just 30 miles south of Houston. My cell is 979-583-6875.

    You wanna claim that Pro-Defense/Pro-Military Libertarians are not “real Libertarians.”

    Tell ya what. Come visit me. Come to my home. I’ll teach you all about us Pro-Defense Libertarians right to your face. You can even introduce yourself as “Anonymous” if you wish.

  26. Eric Dondero

    Carpozi’s an idiot.

    Wayne doesn’t need to “threaten” other Libertarians. I’ll fucking do it.

    Hey you fuckface anti-America, Isolationist pukes who have infested MY LIBERTARIAN MOVEMENT, I meet you in the streets, you start dissing MY COUNTRY, with your anti-American rants, you start dissing our Proud United States Military, I can guarantee you I will [Ed: redacted].

    Don’t you fucking dare badmouth my country, or make idiotic comments like Wes Benedict just did on National Television that there’s no threat from Islamic Terrorism in my presence.

    Eric Dondero Rittberg
    United States Navy Veteran, 1981-85
    (hon.) USS Kittyhawk & USS Luce

  27. Robert Capozzi

    ed: Wayne doesn’t need to “threaten” other Libertarians. I’ll fucking do it.

    me: OK, Eric, despite your apparent inability to spell my name, allow me to expand. This statement by Root:

    “If this isn’t news worthy…then we need a new Exec Director who can see that it is.”

    Certainly sounds like a threat to me. My read is he’s saying in effect promote my appearances on the LP National website or I’ll have you replaced.

    I suspect most fair-minded readers would label those words a threat. I can understand if you don’t read them that way, as your propensity to engage in uncivilized dialog is well-established in the blogosphere.

    I am curious whether your rants are calculated to persuade others, or are you simply venting? Do you know the difference?

  28. Eric Dondero

    I am not simply “venting.” I’m defending the honor of those brave 13 US Army Soldiers who died last in 2009 at Ft. Hood, Texas at the hands of a radical Islamic extremist, whose lives the Executive Director of the Libertarian Party just said on national television, really didn’t matter.

    Every one of you here should be aghast, outraged even by Benedict’s statement. In fact, he friggin’ led off the interview with it.

    But instead, you all are focusing on side issues, like Wayne Root giving Benedict a little mild criticism about him not acknowledging his media appearances.

    The issue is this outrageous statement made by the National Director on National Television in this interview that there was no longer a threat from Islamic Terrorism, and that “Republicans were just scaring people…”

    And what makes this even MORE OUTRAGEOUS, is that Benedict is from Texas. And correct me if I’m wrong here, but I believe he is from Austin, which is a mere hour away from Killeen.

    You would think he would have enough sense not to stain the memories our brave men and women in uniform, who died at Ft. Hood, a short drive away from his own hometown.

  29. Eric Dondero

    My comments here are not meant to “persuade.” Most of you knuckleheads here are beyond saving, having drowned long ago in a cesspool of hatred for America and for the United States Military.

    My objective here is to make any IPR readers who don’t usually comment, and who may be in the “I’m a Libertarian but I disagree with the Party’s anti-Military stance,” category, to let them know that Libertarian does not equal = Girlie Man, Isolationist, America-hater.

    You can be Pro-Defense, and be Libertarian. In fact, that’s the original Libertarian position of Goldwater, Rand, and Friedman (and the LP’s first Presidential candidate Dr. John Hospers), before it was butchered by the likes of Rothbard, Raimondo and the SDS Lefty infiltrators who flooded our movement.

  30. Robert Capozzi

    Eric, it appears we’re making progress, in that you at least acknowledge that what Root said in that email was in your words “mild criticism.” That falls short in my interpretation, and I suspect in the interpretation of most lurkers that you (and I) are playing to, but OK.

    I certainly don’t consider myself to be anti-military. All things considered, I certainly believe that AQN should be dealt with and dealt with forcefully as necessary. Many Ls happen to believe that the Iraq War and the Patriot Act were counterproductive overreactions, as I do.

    You’ve made it clear that you think those were appropriate measures. But to say that any L who it critical of the Iraq War and the Patriot Act is a girlie man (what would you call a woman holding this view?), lefty infiltrators, and what not reads to me like an hysterical overreaction that makes you look like a childish fool.

    My guess is you’re preaching to the converted only. You may even lose some straddlers with your uncivilized, unmeasured tactics.

    Since I’m not in your camp on this issues, keep up the good work 😉

  31. Starchild

    Eric Dondero @29, 30, 32 and 33:

    You don’t sound “pro-defense” to me. You sound rabidly nationalist.

    Since when does not wanting Americans to lose their civil liberties in the name of an open-ended and poorly defined “War on Terror” mean that you hate America? Wes Benedict did not even say that there is no more threat from Islamic terrorism — you are putting words in his mouth.

    And what’s with the homophobic “Girlie Man” comment? Talk about a non-sequitur.

    Frankly you sound a bit mentally unstable — posting your home address and challenging people to come there, itching to beat people up in the streets and all. You’re not doing the U.S. military any favors by threatening violence against other Americans for exercising their freedom of speech.

    Finally, a shooting can be horrible, wrong, and a tragedy to the those killed and their friends and families, without us needing to incorrectly label it as “terrorism” (police officers are armed government agents, not “civilians,” and claiming a fetus the shooter may not have even known about as a civilian victim is a real stretch).

    And just because someone was killed in a shooting does not automatically make the person “brave”, a “hero”, or any of the other superlative accolades that politicians and others tend to heap on the dead in such circumstances. Simply reporting the facts of what happened will lead most people to the appropriate conclusions. That way you don’t look like you are trying to capitalize on a tragic incident for political purposes.

  32. Eric Dondero

    Fuck you Starr!!!!!!!]

    You mother fucker!!! How fucking dare you call the killings at Ft. Hood “a tragedy.” You just pissed on the memory of those dead soldiers. You are a scumbag fucking bastard.

    It’s people like you who don’t deserve to call themselves “Libertarians.”

    GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY LIBERTARIAN MOVEMENT FUCKFACE ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!

  33. Eric Dondero

    Excuse me, I meant to say Starchild. Not Tim Starr.

    And yes, I’ll damned well use the term “Girlie Man” whenever the fuck I please, you little prick. How fucking dare you pull all this politically correct bullshit on Libertarians?

    I can see you never served in the Military. You’d run away like a little girl at the first sound of the Master Seargant yelling “hell” or “fuck” or “grab your cocks, and pull up your socks…”

  34. Eric Dondero

    Carpozi, I stand by my comments and would go one step further. Libertarians who opposed the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are not just Girlie Men, but rather downight Anti-American, with one exception:

    Those who opposed the Wars for entirely fiscal reasons, (would be too much of a cost to the American taxpayer to justify the interventions.)

    But those who opposed the Wars cause they didn’t see Islamic Terrorism as a threat, are themselves threats to the Security of the United States. They are nearly traitors themselves. And should strongly consider a one-way ticket to Palestine, or Saudi Arabia, or Yemen.

  35. Eric Dondero

    Carpozi, I can think of less than a handful of “Libertarians” who served in the Military and opposed the Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    There’s most certainly a strong correlation between Girlie Man-ism, or just plain old Sissification, with those who never served a day of their lives in the Military.

    One of the biggest problems with the Libertarian Party, is the lack of Veterans as members. Thus, the severe lack of empathy expressed to those of us who have served within the ranks of the LP, as expressed by the little girl “Starchild” who posed above.

  36. Scott Lieberman

    We interrupt this food fight for an important announcement.

    A member of the Libertarian National Committee had an uncontrollable urge to forward a PRIVATE LNC e-mail sent by Wes Benedict to the Libertarian National Committee either directly, or via an intermediary, to Dr. George Phillies. And, of course, Dr. Phillies made sure that one of his friends would post that Mr. Benedict e-mail to IPR. Of course, that depends on whether anonymous poster “Root of the problem” is telling the truth about his or her source.

    Mr. Root sent a reply to the LNC to Mr. Benedict’s e-mail. Mr. Root was not going to make it public, but that was assuming that MR. Benedict’s e-mail was not made public. Since the guilty LNC member made that e-mail public, Mr. Root now wants me to make his reply public.

    **************************************

    My understanding is that my private e-mail to Mr. Benedict was forwarded to the LNC and that several had commented on it. I hope that the LNC will get the opportunity to read this e-mail to understand the context surrounding it.

    I believe at one point Dr Ruwart suggested we empower Mr. Benedict to publish at our LP web site ALL media achieved by LP members equally and fairly. We are in complete agreement. This is EXACTLY what I proposed months ago to Mr. Benedict. Aaron Starr is my witness. Mr. Benedict said that I should email him my media appearances from time to time and he would be happy to put them up. I remarked in WRITING at the time that I wanted nothing special…that everyone who gets media on behalf of the LP should be complimented and appreciated…and the way to do it is by publishing all of our achievements getting in the media for LP members to see. I did suggest that the media be limited to real media (TV and radio)…not blog talk radio. Mr. Benedict published my media list the next day. So I certainly had every reason to believe we had an informal policy in place.

    Since then I have sent my media appearances to Mr. Benedict again and again- to no avail…(nothing published)…and no response. Leaving me frustrated and exasperated. If I have time to respond to scores of emails per day and dozens of phone calls…and still run my businesses…and appear on several media per day…and take care of a family of 6…than Mr. Benedict can certainly manage to respond to my emails or calls

    This past Monday I sent another list of my 6 media appearances that day to Mr. Benedict asking that they be published. NOT as a candidate for Chair or any other office…but just as I thought we agreed…as a dedicated LP member and leader sacrificing and working hard to spread the LP message. And by the way, I would INSIST that Mr. Benedict do the same for Dr Ruwart, Mr. Wrights, Mr. Hinkle, Dr. Phillies, or anyone else that sacrifices to spread our message in the media.

    I did not even receive the courtesy of an answer to my Monday email. I would have accepted ANY response – he could have said “sure Wayne”…or “I can’t Wayne”…or “I won’t Wayne”…or “I need permission from the LNC.” Being unresponsive is not appropriate.

    So finally after a particularly long day on Thursday doing EIGHT media appearances (starting at 5:30 AM) to help fight for liberty and spread the LP message…I sent one more email to Mr. Benedict. It was in fact strongly worded – and deservedly so.

    Mr. Benedict didn’t reply to me, but he felt that he could forward my latest e-mail to you. I would not treat someone that way.

    I am a very busy entrepreneur. Yet I find the time to get back to EVERYONE. I personally answer my fan mail from hundreds of people a month. I give each one a personalized response. I sometimes work until Midnight to return every call or email the same day I received it. I almost always respond within 24 hours. I treat everyone…no matter their title…just as I’d like to be treated. I would hope that our ED would do the same with personal e-mails that are sent directly to him.

    I agree 100% with the suggestion that we recognize others who get media…as it was my exact suggestion (in writing) several months ago. I’m in agreement with anything that helps foster a positive attitude for LP members and contributors. I want our members to hold their heads up high, smile and whistle to work…because they know someone is out there fighting on their behalf. I’m doing it and yes I want the world to know. And I want others to do the same. The more the merrier.

    Thank you, and & Best Wishes. If anyone on the LNC wants to, feel free to call me anytime to clarify.

    Wayne Allyn Root

  37. Eric Dondero

    BREAKING NEWS!!!

    Kristin Davis, Manhattan Escort Madam, just announced she’s absolutely runnng for New York Governor as a Libertarian.

    We just broke the story at Libertarian Republican beating IPR (hat tip NY Daily News.)

  38. Don Lake .......... 'in your dreams' ............ down south

    By MARIANELA JIMENEZ,
    Associated Press Writer
    Marianela Jimenez,
    Associated Press Writer
    – 50 mins ago

    SAN JOSE, Costa Rica – Costa Ricans appear likely to elect their first woman president Sunday as Central America’s most politically and economically stable country chooses between a career politician from the ruling party and an anti-taxation Libertarian.

  39. Regarding Wes Benedict

    I am just a small fry helping the LP Party in anyway I can. Wes Benedict should be removed. I myself had called and Wes doesn’t have the time of day and acts like he doesn’t care. I have suggested numerous things and his pattern as above in Wayne letter is correct. It is not right nor fair to the LP party as a whole. This does not help the party and it actually hold the party back.

  40. Dondero Hates Freedom

    Dondero: you start dissing MY COUNTRY, with your anti-American rants, you start dissing our Proud United States Military, I can guarantee you I will [Ed: redacted] .

    State propaganda tells us that “our proud military” is fighting in Iraq to “protect our freedoms.” Such as free speech.

    I guess that talking point hasn’t reached Dondero, who threatens to physically assault people for voicing their opinions.

    No wonder people post anonymously. Who wants to offend the violent “pro-State Military” whack jobs out there?

    BTW, Dondero. Freedom is more than the right to consume porn and hire prostitutes.

    Or do you emphasize that issue simply to create the illusion that you’re masculine and virile?

    You come across as someone who’s very insecure in his sexual orientation. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  41. Bruce Cohen

    Dondero can’t have a civil conversation with someone that disagrees on certain issues.

    Just like most LP extremists.

    That’s pretty ironic how it’s ok for them [extremists] to get in a ‘mainstream’ or ‘pragmatic’ or ‘pro-defense’ Libertarian’s face and let them have it.

    Online, or in person.

    But when Eric Dondero does it, somehow they get all shocked and run around the room protesting with their eyes all dialated.

    I think Eric has just a little bit of credit coming to blow off some steam here.

    Only a little.

    No more.

    So try and set a good example, Eric.
    For the kiddietarians who hate the military and are afraid of firearms.

    Because you aren’t going to be allowed to be rude or threatening to people here anymore.

  42. LibertarianGirl

    Bruce , being against unjustified war and killing innocent civilians and being pro-non-interventionism, which is how most anti war libs I know feel, IS NOT THE SAME THING as hating the military or being afraid of guns. come on now:)

  43. paulie Post author

    I have this pic , I wish I could upload it here , its a picture of American bombers dropping bombs caption: “we’re gonna free the shit outa you”

    Send it to me, I’ll post it. And give me a call too.

  44. paulie Post author

    Bruce , being against unjustified war and killing innocent civilians and being pro-non-interventionism, which is how most anti war libs I know feel, IS NOT THE SAME THING as hating the military or being afraid of guns. come on now:)

    I’m in no way afraid of guns. And I respect military people, especially antiwar vets, of which I have known quite a few both in the LP and out.

  45. LibertarianGirl

    on Waynes behalf , Id like to say he absolutely , positively responds to every email , at least from me . And trust me , Ive emailed him about some petty topics he probably didnt have the time for , but he ALWAYS responds.
    I got into a car accident last week , and Wayne sent me a private email making sure I was ok . I was really touched since noone else but a few people (including family ) even bothered.

    Perhaps if Wes is too busy , is there anyway to let those getting media post the links themselves??

  46. LG's Blind Spot for Root

    LG, you’re so smart on so many issues. You’re right about war and intervention.

    I also recall you praising Cynthia McKinney for having the courage to travel to Gaza:

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/06/cynthia-mckinney-aboard-detained-free-gaza-movement-relief-boat/

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/06/cynthia-mckinney-and-free-gaza-team-update-on-journey/

    I doubt Root has any sympathy for Israel’s victims in Gaza, or the victims of American bombings in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    In his heart, Root is with Dondero and Cohen. Why do you think they praise Root, despite saying “While I don’t agree with Root’s views on Iraq, etc.”

    Do Dondero or Cohen praise other “antiwar” libs so highly?

    The pro-war libs know that Root is one of them. Root is a safe “non-interventionist,” in that he’s really a secret interventionist, and so Root won’t say anything damaging to pro-war policy during his many media appearances.

    It makes no sense you liking Root, other than that your otherwise smart brain shuts off when it considers Root.

  47. paulie Post author

    That’s pretty ironic how it’s ok for them [extremists] to get in a ‘mainstream’ or ‘pragmatic’ or ‘pro-defense’ Libertarian’s face and let them have it.

    Did that include any threats of violent assault, such as have been posted in this thread? Or any death threats, such as the one I received on Hammer of Truth shortly before it closed in 2006?

  48. Bruce Cohen

    The ‘hates the military and guns’ was intended to be ironic, considering the ‘anti-defense’ people tend to call names far more nasty, not to mention, unfair.

    At least Eric says what he’s thinking, and doesn’t engage in dishonest, backroom Machiavellian politics like so many in the LP do.

    Oh, and there were no ‘victims of Israel’ in the recent Gaza action.

    They were 100% Hamas and company.
    The blame there is on who instigated it, and we can just walk back as many years as anyone wants, but I can’t imagine: a) what gives Hamas the ‘right’ to indiscriminately send rockets to kill Israelis. and b) what prevents Israel’s right to defend itself from the rockets.

  49. LibertarianGirl

    Blind spot , I don’t have to agree 100% on every issue ideologically or philosophically to like someone or more importantly to support them for n office or candidacy.

    are you suggesting that people can only support or like those that they agree with all of the time??

    Id like to point out I was very anti-root when he first came around , I am not a blind supporter , HE EARNED MY RESPECT AND SUPPORT , just so we’re clear:)

  50. Bruce Cohen

    See here, it’s all about being on the same team.

    It’s about telling the truth and working together nicely.

    Debra and I happen to disagree on some key things. But we somehow magically manage to get along, despite this.

    LGs support for Wayne is based on his value as a person, a hard worker, a person of courage and of character.

    How someone treats their wife and kids counts more if they agree with me on one issue or another.

  51. LG's Blind Spot for Root

    LG: How someone treats their wife and kids counts more if they agree with me on one issue or another.

    The victims of our wars also have wives and kids.

    It impresses me not at all if a Root (or Beck, or Hannity, or Limbaugh) is compassionate to their own family, but support policies that result in the maiming or deaths of foreign children.

  52. Michael H. Wilson

    Somewhere above we get the following from Mr. Root; “If I have time to respond to scores of emails per day and dozens of phone calls…and still run my businesses…and appear on several media per day…and take care of a family of 6…than Mr. Benedict can certainly manage to respond to my emails or calls…”

    In my capacity as the editor of a state party news letter in the past I emailed Mr. Root at least twice and did not receive any replies.

    In my not so humble opinion Wes is doing a far better job than what we saw in the recent past and we should be trying to help, not complain about the little stuff. It is doubtful that Mr. Root has much of an understanding as to what the work load is in the office and given what I have recently read the number of full time workers has been reduced.

    Should we all insist that our letters to the editor, news releases and interviews be acknowledged by the LP? Given that there are only a few people in the office I doubt much else would get done.

  53. Jason

    Dondero …

    United States Air Force, 1996-2000, hon.
    California Air National Guard, 2001-2007, hon.

    (It was when I was in the guard that Cohen told me to get a haircut – go figure).

    Dondero, if you are going to say that my belief that we should not invade countries that aren’t threatening us, my being against unjustified war and killing innocent civilians, means that I hate the military and the country, then I dare you to be brave enough to say it to MY face.

    Most soliders, sailors, marines, and airmen, as well as veterans of those services, are against waging wars of aggression. The objective is to defend the countyr, not to expand the empire.

    You abandoned the libertarian movement decades ago when Rep. Paul fired your sorry ass. Then you showed us you never understood it when you proclaimed Giuliani to be a libertarian.

    You became very brave AFTER you left the service. Those of us who are pro-defense instead of pro-offense are getting tired of your anti-liberty rants.

  54. David F. Nolan

    Sounds like Dondildo has gone off his meds again. I mean, it’s one thing to disagree about issues, and another to spew rabid, curse-word-laden venom time after time. And as for his calling the libertarian movement “his” movement, that’s just laughable. Eric is a self-proclaimed REPUBLICAN who worships the military. Hardly a libertarian by any stretch of the word.

    I’ll give him this, though: he posts under his own name, unlike too many others who make up “cute” pseudonyms when they attack others. Eric may be a psychopath, but he’s upfront about it.

    (Stand by for a venemous response from Dondildo, who will call me nasty names, impugn my manhood and/or sanity, and generally foam at the mouth.)

  55. R. Lee Wrights

    I have a tried a number of times to query Mr. Root and have been ignored. And I sit on the national committee. When Mr. Root says he answers “every” inquiry, he is simply lying.

  56. Bruce Cohen

    I don’t believe I ever asked Jason to get a haircut.

    On the other hand, I did object to him calling cops pigs, and making grunting/snorting sounds, both under his breath.

    I don’t think Jason’s image quailifies him to be ‘front room’ for the LP, personally.

    And it’s not about my personal style, either.

    Mike and Lidia Seebeck are fine by me.
    How they dress and comport themselves is great.

    So let’s be clear about the truth of my opinions, Mister Jason, and stop making stuff up.

  57. Bruce Cohen

    The lack of responsiveness by some people at the national LP and the LPCA level is clearly a problem.

    Ron Crickenberger took calls from all comers.
    So did Steve Dasbach.
    And likewise Shane Cory.
    Robert Krause when he was ‘acting’ Director.

    They all were very good about returning email, and I only think a few people got the cold shoulder from them.

    I can think of a few very funny examples from California, one currently a Candidate, the other recently resigned, who did wear out their welcome, but it took a lot.

    That Wes doesn’t want/can’t/won’t/forgot/whatever to return Wayne’s emails and/or phone calls about helping get the LP in the news sends off partisan alarm bells in my brain.

    I hope and pray Wes doesn’t have an agenda here.

    Because we all want to play fair/honest/nice.
    Right?

  58. LibertarianGirl

    you know what would be hysterical , watching Starchild beat the shit out of Dondero . Have you seen Starchilds guns and other Muscles(LOL) the dude looks like he lives at the gym.

  59. Root's Ego

    Root: We have a bright star in the mainstream media…who is branding the LP.

    Sounds to me like Root is the one with the agenda. His agenda: IT’S ALL ABOUT ME!!!!!!!

    Bruce Cohen also has an agenda: to be Root’s lapdog, panting after him, hoping Root will throw Bruce a bone (a cool national LP job or title), as Root’s star rises.

  60. Paulie

    David Nolan:

    Stand by for a venemous response from Dondildo, who will call me nasty names, impugn my manhood and/or sanity, and generally foam at the mouth.

    He may also say that you are a leftist infiltrator/newbie in his Libertarian Party/movement…LOL

  61. Bruce Cohen

    Yeah, that’s it.

    Wayne and I see the huge potential profits to be made by tricking innocent Libertarians into being just like us.

    Yeah, we have it all planned out.
    Just like that.

    Lapdog and all.

    [Panting noises]

  62. Thomas L. Knapp

    Dr. Lieberman,

    You write:

    “A member of the Libertarian National Committee had an uncontrollable urge to forward a PRIVATE LNC e-mail sent by Wes Benedict to the Libertarian National Committee”

    There’s no such thing as a “private LNC e-mail.”

    The LNC works for the membership of the Libertarian Party and is subject to supervision by that membership.

    You don’t have to like it. That’s the way it is whether you like it or not.

  63. Gary Chartier

    Tom @77: Amen. A representative body can’t effectively serve–and be held accountable to–the members it putatively represents if they’re denied access to information about its activities.

  64. Robert Capozzi

    lg, I hate fights, don’t watch wrestling, boxing’s barbaric…and yet…

    your idea of a deathcage match pitting Starchild vs. Dondero is profoundly inspired! I’d pay to see that one!

  65. Robert Capozzi

    tk: The LNC works for the membership of the Libertarian Party and is subject to supervision by that membership.

    me: I’m open to this assertion, but does it say so in the Bylaws? Does it say the LNC can’t have offline, private communications?

    Please make the literalist case…

  66. George Phillies

    @68

    David,

    Let’s look at the bright side of Mr. Dondero. Your wonderful Nolan Chart has excellent names for three of the four corners: liberal, Libertarian, and conservative. A good name for the fourth quarter has been lacking. Yes, you can say ‘authoritarian’, a word that many Americans do not know. The serious social science literature on what authoritarians actually believe has been a bit scattered. Recent observations that the topic on which folks down there actually seem to be fairly uniform is … how to rear children … appears to be well founded and explain the lack of other unities, but be less than useful.

    Fortunately, we now have a word for the people at the opposite corner of the Nolan chart. It satisfies several requirements
    1) People should know what it means
    2) It should represent complete disagreement with us on social, economic, and foreign policy issues
    3) It should refer to a group of people that is about as large as we would like to be, because if we paint one corner off the liberal-conservative line as being 37 fruitcakes with a flag, well, we sent the message that the diametrically opposite corner namely outs might be similar.

    And we now have the answer. The bottom corner of the Nolan Chart? They’re…

    REPUBLICANS!

  67. George Phillies

    @0

    ‘I prefer when I have links to a video, article and/or a recording. I welcome your suggestions.’

    Wes is right. It lets us find out whether the message is libertarian is like the Rand Paul ad that Knapp put up on Knappster.

  68. Bruce Cohen

    A Libertarian Death cage match is not a new idea.

    TJ Campbell suggested one between me and King Naga a few years ago, when I had the temerity and gall to question his policy.

    (Gee, I guess I was right all along, wasn’t I?)

    TJ stated Kevin could take a “Jew”, etc..

    Dondero is rude when he gets excited.

    So are a lot of the extremists in the LP.

    In Denver, one petitioner got so upset at an LP employee things had to get broken up.

    I’ve been called a Nazi and all kinds of other nice names.

    To pretend Eric is the first and only Libertarian who gets hot under the collar is a flight of fantasy.

    In point of fact, the self-styled ‘radical’ extremist, ‘anti-war’ purity police are almost invariably the ones with bad manners, starting fights and threatening people.

    I don’t seem to remember anyone talking about the other side of this coin.

  69. Joe Buchman

    A public THANK YOU to Wayne Allyn Root.

    Last Saturday the Libertarian Party of Utah held a “How to run for public office 101” meeting for potential Libertarian candidates for public office.

    At the same time one of the other 2008 candidates for Vice President, Sarah Palin, was spewing kindergarden BS to the tea party folks in Nashville, Wayne was here, at his own expense speaking to us. (In part due to being in nearby Park City for vacation time that he cut short to be with us.)

    We’re fairly hard-core radicals here, pro-medical marajuana, anti-war on drugs, pro LEAP, pro Gay marriage (and polygamy (something mostly openly practiced across Utah and the west)), end the GWOT (the cost is a greater threat to our national security (borrowing the funds from China to fund it)), and cut the size of governmental spending by half (or more) as a start.

    Wayne hit each of these points hard, with passion and eloquence, on camera.

    The local Fox News affiliate showed to cover our meeting (unfortunately prior to Wayne’s appearance for the last half-hour). I am certain they would not have been there (and other media would not have covered us) if not for the announcement in our press releases that Wayne would be present.

    Wayne was generous with his time, addressed questions from everyone present, and despite the small crowd (an an email I sent the day before the event explaining that it might not be worth his time due to an anticipated small turnout, to which we replied “I’ll keep my promise to you to come, even if only one person is interested in hearing me speak), and some hostility to his appearance, was interested in everyone’s comments and suggestions to appeal to left-leaning libertarian concerns, and stayed to answer every question, including over a 2 hour dinner afterwards.

    As Secretary of the Libertarian Party of Utah I say — “THANK YOU Wayne Allyn Root. You are a passionate, hard-working. generous Libertarian. I appreciate your efforts to advance the cause of Liberty. Good Job.”

    That said, I can wish Wayne was out there on libertarian social issues — but do you really think the media outlets he has been able to get on would ever have him on again if he pushed those issues?? Is anyone out there getting the kind of free media attention he is getting?? Has anyone in the history of the party been able to generate that kind of interest??

    And are you serious that what he is doing, more or less out there on his own, even during the presidential campaign does more harm than good? Or are those who attack his efforts, including those who would forward or publish private emails, or fail to publicize his efforts where they are indeed praise worthy (and might benefit libertarians), the “real root” of the problem of the LP having almost no significant impact on American government?

    Joe

  70. Joe Buchman

    PS:

    As a heads-up, the Libertarian Party of Utah State Convention will be held Saturday April 24th.

    I’ll need the approval of our executive committee to make the following invitation a formal one– but my request will be that we invite each candidate running for LNC chair to be present either in person, on webcast, a speakerphone, or by DVD or other video, to speak to us. The schedule probably won’t allow for much time (perhaps 5 minutes each, plus informal Q&A or dinner/drinks afterwards with those interested).

    When/if our exec committee issues this invitation, either our state chair or I will make those invitations to speak directly to those who have announced they are running for LNC Chair (and perhaps to Mr. Redpath for a few remarks as well). We’ll also post that invitation publically here and potentially in other media.

    That said, our convention is open to all, with some requirements to be a LPUT dues paying, Utah resident in order to vote.

    Joe

  71. Pingback: Wayne Root speaks to Utah Libertarians | Independent Political Report

  72. Harlequin

    Joe Buchman quote:
    “I believe there is incontrovertible evidence that we are not alone in the Universe…I call on our Government to open its ET files now.”

    Just saying….

    Other than that, he’s pretty solid.

  73. Robert Capozzi

    jb: …cut the size of governmental spending by half (or more) as a start

    me: I see this benchmark bandied about a bit. Does anyone know who came up with the 50% number?

    It’s an awfully big number, esp. if we’re talking about a 50% cut in one year. It’s so big it doesn’t seem credible to me, in fact. Has anyone actually sat down with the Fed budget and figured out how to do this?

  74. Michael H. Wilson

    Robert @ 88. know some work has been done on this issue and depending on how one goes about it the goal might be achieved.

    Cut the defense budget by bring the troops home and then open up the housing, transportation, health care and other market that are now closed.

  75. Thomas L. Knapp

    “It’s an awfully big number, esp. if we’re talking about a 50% cut in one year.”

    Yeah, cutting the federal budget back to the level that it held in those long-ago days of minimal government is a giant step.

    Those long-ago days, btw, were ten years ago (federal budget FY2010 — $3.55 trillion; federal budget FY2000 — $1.8 trillion).

    I recall thinking way back then how government was MUCH too small and should be grown quite a bit.

  76. James N. Dawson

    Re: Joe Buchman’s:

    “We’re fairly hard-core radicals here, pro-medical marajuana, anti-war on drugs, pro LEAP, pro Gay marriage (and polygamy (something mostly openly practiced across Utah and the west)), end the GWOT (the cost is a greater threat to our national security (borrowing the funds from China to fund it)), and cut the size of governmental spending by half (or more) as a start.”

    Wayne hit each of these points hard, with passion and eloquence, on camera.”

    It’s these kinds of statements that *really* confuse me. All over other forums I read that W.A.R. is a luke-warm semi-libertarian Republicanoid and now I read he’s actually a radical, PUBLICLY.

    I honestly don’t know WHAT to believe in all the he said/she said cacaphony.

    (I’m an ex-LP member and consider myself an ideological “liberal” libertarian.)

  77. Robert Capozzi

    mhw and tk, I’d suggest you both actually look at the current budget. Round numbers, SS and Medicare are 1/3 of the budget. Add Medicaid and interest on the debt and we are at about 50%.

    I spose it’s possible to zero the rest, but it sure doesn’t seem credible to me IN ONE YEAR.

    tk, I’ll be especially interested to see how your campaign handles this. Your comment’s rhetoric sounds good on the surface, until you actually look at the numbers. I love your theory of $0, but I’d prefer to see a credible path in that direction vs. grandma and grandpa eating cat food and laying off all personnel from the nuclear silos, leaving them abandoned.

  78. Robert Capozzi

    mhw, so, if work’s been done justifying the 50% number, I’d love to see it. Please advise.

  79. Thomas L. Knapp

    Bob,

    You write: “it sure doesn’t seem credible to me IN ONE YEAR.”

    I was addressing whether or not it was an especially big step toward small government, not whether it was credible “in one year,” which has now twice been a SUBSIDIARY claim to your claim that it’s “an awfully big number.”

    I’ve already proposed specific cuts that, applied to the 2009 budget, would represent 14.75% of that budget.

    I think that’s an eminently reasonable 1-year cut. I don’t see any reason why it couldn’t reach 50% over 5-10 years.

  80. Marc Montoni

    Wholesale slaughter of federal programs could easily result in budget reductions of in excess of 50% in one year.

    The biggest reason to take a meat axe to the budget is that the longer you draw it out with 15% here, 10% there, the worse the hue and cry from the bureaucrats who are going to get their ox gored. The longer it takes, the longer our opponents will have to hire PR firms.

    I once believed that only if a Libertarian president were elected with a supermajority of LP US House congresscritters could the libertarian agenda see daylight, but these days I’m not even sure that would be enough. There are plenty of Libertarians now who refuse to consider “just abolish it” when it comes to the IRS & income tax (or much of anything else, for that matter).

    Federal bureaucrat attrition is about 7 to 10%. Initiate a permanent federal-bureacrat hiring freeze, abolish the income tax and the roughly 50% of federal revenues it brings in, and within about five years, revenue would come back to its current balance. Yeah, deficit for a while. Unless, of course, there was some unity on the idea of slashing government programs enough to bring the budget into complete balance. Even that path has already been mapped out — all that must be done to bring the budget into balance even with no income tax is to look back in history for the last time spending matched today’s revenue, and simply re-enact the spending programs from that past year (although it would be better, IMO, to start from scratch).

    The truth about allegedly “radical” solutions is that eventually they are going to happen anyway — because all governments eventually collapse under their own weight. It would be far less painful on society as a whole to have those reforms initiated by design rather than accident.

  81. Robert Capozzi

    tk, sorry my critique wasn’t clear. A 50% cut over 10 years is plausible. Saying 5-10 years is better still, as its flexibility makes it sound less precise and therefore more credible.

  82. Robert Capozzi

    mm 98, are you assuming that bureaucrat:spending ratio is 1:1? If so, I do believe that’s a HUGE mistake. A very large percentage of spending involves transfer payments. Admin costs — incl. salaries — is a tiny portion of SS, for instance.

    What you also don’t seem to get is that some Ls recognize that the means to the end are not necessarily the same in each instance. For me, for ex., while I’m a theoretical asymptotic anarchist, I recognize that my applied lessarchism is going to be a function of the times and the country’s prevailing mood. What I advocate will shift accordingly, because the path toward liberty will shift as well. The path of least resistance involves some triangulation.

    To be an L does NOT mean we should have a tin ear. Good communicators recognize that a different audience and different circumstances indicate a slightly different message, in tone, subject selection, and perhaps in aggressiveness.

    This doesn’t mean that we do what Ron Paul did on Meet the Press, e.g., being assertive on the CSA’s “right” to secede on the one hand, yet refusing to question the size and scope of major portions of the Nanny State on the other. There is no correct approach to high-profile venues like that one, but I’d certainly have advised him against articulating as he did on both matters.

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