Julian Assange says US Libertarian Party is closest to his beliefs

Gold America Group:

Julian Assange, Australian journalist and creator of wikileaks (still up at wikileaks.NL), was asked which political party he as closest to in his beliefs. His answer: The American Libertarian Party.

This is significant because his answers were not limited to US parties, but could have involved any political party in the world.

94 thoughts on “Julian Assange says US Libertarian Party is closest to his beliefs

  1. Jill Pyeatt

    I’m not sure if Mr. Assange is legitimate, as I have reason to believe he is actually a disinformation agent. If he isn’t, then he’s a hero.

  2. Jill Pyeatt

    Well, I think some very large categories were omitted, namely discussion of Israel and the events of 9/11. I think it’s suspect that certain leaks weren’t released, and I think it’s strange that Israel is only mentioned in positive terms.

    I realize, though, that there is still more info to be released.

  3. George Phillies

    Foreigners cannot be tried for treason. Drawing and quartering is unconstitutional. Unsurprisingly, conservative tea party patriots are ignorant of their own country’s basic laws.

  4. Brian

    What would Root and his Tea Party-lite followers think of this? This is hilarious if you ask me.

  5. George Phillies

    Julian Assange, Libertarian Hero!

    from Mass Liberty, our state newsletter that is actually published monthly.

    Julian Assange, Australian journalist and creator of wikileaks (still up at wikileaks.NL), was asked which political party he as closest to in his beliefs. His answer: The American Libertarian Party.

    Assange has championed openness as a way to improve governance. His wikileaks organization in close cooperation with major world newspapers has thus far published 2000 of the 251,287 American diplomatic cables that it has gained. It will be years before they are all released. Among the more surprising revelations: The American Ambassador to one European country asked the local government if a local newspaper was going to publish a certain article, a question that makes sense only if he expected the local government to be bugging all the newspapers in the country.

  6. George Phillies

    @4

    We are closing in at 1% release. Many newspapers are going things one area at a time, sometimes starting at home. For example, Der Spiegel exposed the American spy who was a senior official in the staff of the German Foreign Minister (who is also the head of the Free Democratic Party).

  7. Jill Pyeatt

    You’re probably right, George. With the volume of info to be released, only some have been made public so far.

    That makes him a hero. Some people think he can be prosecuted in this country, and many say no. The one I’m really worried about is Bradley Manning. He can be prosecuted, since he’s a citizen and a member of the military. He is a very courageous young man, and I fear may not have much to look forward to in his life.

  8. Eric Dondero

    It’s hard to imagine it getting any worse than this. This is almost as bad as Ahmadinjad or Hugo Chavez calling himself a “libertarian.”

    Let’s hope this doesn’t get out too far and wide, and it just gets ignored in the media.

  9. Conservative Tea Party Patriot

    Eric Dondero is right. All you Libertarians reading this should absolutely NOT publicize this in your local, state and national media.

    Assange should be treated as an enemy combatant, and as far as drawing and quartering being unconstitutional…

    The constitution does not apply to enemy combatants and besides, if we make it commonplace, it wouldn’t be cruel and unusual punishment now would it?

  10. paulie Post author

    That’s because there is no 9/11 Conspiracy.

    I don’t know anyone who seriously believes that. Even the official government story is a conspiracy theory. And even members of the 9/11 Commission have now said that there were serious problems with their report.

  11. Jill Pyeatt

    I agree with you, paulie. Mike’s description @ 22 of the events of that day are, by definition, a conspiracy. Funny thing, I didn’t say anything about 9/11 being a conspiracy, nor have I ever spoken with Mr McMahon about it. He’s certainly getting worked up over something I didn’t say.

  12. Thomas L. Knapp

    Jill @ 4,

    You write:

    “I think some very large categories were omitted, namely discussion of Israel and the events of 9/11.”

    1) Only a small percentage of the cables have been publicly released;

    2) Of those which have been released, some involve Israel, and some which involve Israel paint it in a negative light. For example, one cable details an Israeli bribery scheme for allowing shipment of goods into Gaza.

    A distinguishing feature of a “conspiracy theory” (as opposed to sane theories that happen to include conspiracies) is that its proponents insist on their theory’s primacy — if the available evidence doesn’t support the theory, instead of discarding the theory they decide that the providers of the evidence must be part of the conspiracy.

  13. Jill Pyeatt

    Thomas, George Phillies pointed out that only a small percentage of the cables have been released, so I guess my comment at the beginning of the thread wasn’t thought through very well. I think Julian Assange has done a noble thing by giving our government some of the transparency we won’t get otherwise.

  14. paulie Post author

    hat I refer to by my use of the word “conspiracy” are the Byzantine alternate explanations favored by certain fringe groups.

    All byzantine conspiracy theories are equal, but some are more equal than others?

  15. paulie Post author

    A distinguishing feature of a “conspiracy theory” (as opposed to sane theories that happen to include conspiracies) is that its proponents insist on their theory’s primacy — if the available evidence doesn’t support the theory, instead of discarding the theory they decide that the providers of the evidence must be part of the conspiracy.

    Not according to the dictionary definition

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conspiracy+theory

    “a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.”

    The 9/11 (c)ommission report fits that definition.

  16. Observer

    It’s amazing to me that the people who wrote the 911 Commission Report don’t believe it, but apparently this Mike character does. Or is he trying to say the Byzantines did it?

  17. Bruce Cohen

    Jill just hates Jews and Israel.

    That’s why she’s so dissapointed that nothing bad came out about Israel, and that most of the BS the mainstream press and the antisemites have been trying to sell for a few decades got disproven by the wikileaks leaked so far.

    Love or hate Julian, nobody has accused him of forging or falsifying anything.

    So that you are dissapointed and unhappy that Israel looks good after the leak reading, just goes to show you we have even more racists on the Board of the LP of California, even more…

    Sieg Heil Jill.

  18. disgustedwithbruce

    Jill hates Jews? I think you’re thinking of someone else, Bruce. Her child is Jewish.

    You need to stop making things up out of thin air if you want any credibilty, Bruce. What’s wrong with you?

  19. George Phillies

    @4 You make an interesting point, which does not speak to the motives of the people involved, which has also been made by people who have seen the entire mass of the cables. One infers that there actually is interesting material out there, as opposed to the possibility that this sampling of our diplomatic cables does not have anything about certain countries. (The amusing possibility that there is a country, whose 20,000 unclassified cables all discuss the local belief that the moon landings were faked in CBS news studios in New York, comes to mind.) The one cable related to your issue of which I am aware speaks poorly of our diplomatic service, especially their ability to perform the duties as spies that Hillary Clinton requested of them, but not particularly well or poorly of any of the locals.

  20. paulie Post author

    I didn’t put those scare quotes there for no reason.

    Fair enough. I’ll note, though, that the preceding discussion was of conspiracy theories, sans scare quotes.

    As to your preceding point – I don’t think most 9/11 truthers, even of the extreme “US Government carried it out” variety (much less those of us in the more questions than answers camp) would say that, say, you, George and Mike are “part of the conspiracy” simply because you don’t agree.

    At the other extreme end, there are those who claim that even asking any questions about 9/11 is giving aid and comfort to Al Qaida – which fits your scare quote definition of conspiracism.

    Love or hate Julian, nobody has accused him of forging or falsifying anything.

    The people that claim he is a secret agent have. Although I think they are off base.

  21. Thomas L. Knapp

    Paulie @38,

    It’s a difficult subject because of overlapping terminology, etc.

    I have nothing against conspiracy theories in general. By definition, almost any theory concerning a significant event is going to be a conspiracy theory, because humans do act in intentional concert — in other words, conspire — to do things.

    Generally what makes a conspiracy theory a fringe thing that causes the term “conspiracy theory” to get thrown around is some obvious flaw in approach.

    With respect to the fringe segment of 9/11 Truthers — the “it was an inside job, and we demand that claim be accepted as proven even though it’s been nine years and we haven’t come up with so much as a single piece of evidence to substantiate it yet” faction — the Wikileaks cables expose one such flaw in approach.

    That flaw in approach is that they’ve determined that a small sample of a huge number of cables indicates that Wikileaks is part of the conspiracy they assert, for no other reason than that none of the cables thus far released supports their claims.

    Reasonable people assume that a lack of evidence tends to undermine their hypotheses. Fringe “conspiracy theorists” assume that a lack of evidence merely proves the existence of an even wider conspiracy.

  22. Scott Lieberman

    “Julian Assange…was asked which political party he as closest to in his beliefs. His answer: The American Libertarian Party.”

    *****************************************

    I followed the links backwards, and no source was cited for this comment.

    Even though Dr. Phillies is a well-known and respected Libertarian Party member, I would like to see a source for this comment that has a little more weight in the community of journalists than GoldAmericaGroup or the LP of Massachusetts.

  23. Bruce Cohen

    Jill Pyatt:
    “Well, I think some very large categories were omitted, namely discussion of Israel and the events of 9/11. I think it’s suspect that certain leaks weren’t released, and I think it’s strange that Israel is only mentioned in positive terms.

    I realize, though, that there is still more info to be released.”

    Yeah whatever, she’s not an anti-semite.

  24. John Jay Myers

    I am trying to figure this out, if you say Mexico has a problem with drug violence…. are you a racist?
    If you say India needs improve its roads are you a racist?
    If you say China needs to try to improve on human rights are you a racist?

    But if you say anything, I mean anything about Israel, you are a racist?

    Someone needs to learn that it’s okay to say a country is wrong, without being a racist.

    We live in a country where people will call our President a Nazi Socialist Kenyan Racist Death Monger, and it’s okay, some who post on this board even encourage it.

    But if you say Israel’s foreign policy interests are not in our interests, you are a racist?

    It doesn’t matter what Jill says about Israel, you can debate the statements on their own. But saying she is a racist is out right slander.

  25. Thomas L. Knapp

    Dr. Lieberman @ 40,

    I haven’t seen the claim in those specific terms before, either, but in an interview with Forbes magazine, Assange said:

    “It’s not correct to put me in any one philosophical or economic camp, because I’ve learned from many. But one is American libertarianism, market libertarianism.”

    So, it’s not entirely implausible, especially given the status of Wikileaks as probably the most effective libertarian media project in history.

  26. The Israel State Is a STATE

    Bruce Cohen: “Jill just hates Jews and Israel.”

    A fundamental principle of libertarian minarchism is that ALL States are, at best, a necessary EVIL (to quote the American Founders).

    Libertarian anarchists would go a step further and say that States are an unnecessary EVIL.

    Either way, most every libertarian engage in State-bashing (“statist” being a dirty word to almost all libertarians), until attention turns to the Israeli State.

    At which point, some libertarians become protective of this State, and act as though the Israeli State defies libertarian principles in being the one State in the whole world which is good and noble.

  27. paulie Post author

    Yeah whatever, she’s not an anti-semite.

    She’s anti-Zionist. You’ll have to provide some other evidence to extrapolate from that to say she is a Judaeophobe. There are plenty of anti-Zionists who are Judaeophobes, but there are plenty who aren’t as well. There are even Jewish anti-Zionists, ranging from communists to Orthodox Jews.

    On the other hand, there are also pro-Zionist Judaeophobes, such as some Christians who want all Jews to move to Israel so they can be nuked, setting off their interpretation of the Book of Revelations.

  28. Michael H. Wilson

    @ 35 Bruce wrote ; Jill just hates Jews and Israel.
    Sieg Heil Jill.”

    And over of the Kubby Thread someone named Bruce wrote:
    >i>“That’s a pretty strong statement to make and while it’s a powerful allogory, it’s wrong, it’s untrue, it’s hurtful and it’s really beneath you.
    Let’s all play nice here on IPR folks, and I thank you all in advance.”

    Must have two different guys named Bruce 😉

  29. paulie Post author

    At which point, some libertarians become protective of this State, and act as though the Israeli State defies libertarian principles in being the one State in the whole world which is good and noble.

    True. However, there are also people, libertarians and non-libertarians alike, who act is if Israel is uniquely bad, guilty of far worse crimes than other regimes. At times, it does provide a convenient cover for Judaeophobia. To be clear, I have not seen any evidence that this is true of Jill, but it may be true of some of the sources that led her to make that particular comment.

  30. JT

    JJM: “Someone needs to learn that it’s okay to say a country is wrong, without being a racist.”

    I don’t think we should say a “country” is wrong; we should say a country’s government is wrong.

    Israeli State: “A fundamental principle of libertarian minarchism is that ALL States are, at best, a necessary EVIL (to quote the American Founders).”

    That’s what Tom Paine said, but I don’t think that’s a fundamental principle of libertarian minarchism. There are libertarian minarchists who don’t think States are evil per se; that evaluation depends on what those States do.

  31. langa

    #42 and #44 both make excellent points. I get so tired of “libertarian” hawks (there’s an oxymoron) who immediately look to play the “anti-Semitism” card anytime anyone criticizes the American Empire’s attempt to conquer the Middle East, ostensibly to “protect” Israel. Give me a break.

  32. Eric Dondero

    What are you Libertarian credentials Michael Wilson? I’ve never run into you before out there working for the Libertarian Party or the libertarian movement?

    My guess, you’re an armchair “libertarian” who wouldn’t know a clipboard or a stack of campaign pamphlets if they smacked you upside your ass.

  33. Be Rational

    Assange is definitely libertarian, along with Root, Barr, Capozzi, Phillies, John Jay Meyers etc.

    Dondero … not so much.

  34. Jill Pyeatt

    I make a point not to respond to Bruce Cohen”s frequent slanderous and downright mean comments about me because they’re always without merit and are usually based on complete fiction that his otherwise idle mind has come up with, but I would like to thank Mr. Myers and paulie and the others that stood up for me. My father’s name was Murray, my mother’s is Ruth, and my maiden name was Stone–do you get it, Bruce?

  35. JT

    JJM: “JT I will accept that as a friendly amendment.”

    Good, because that’s what it was 🙂 Keep up the good work for the LP!

  36. Jill Pyeatt

    As far as my comment at the beginning of the thread that perhaps Julian Assange is a disinformation agent, I pledge to think my comments through a little better before I post them. I’m used to Facebook, where I can delete a stupid comment if I want to (although sometimes it’s still there in cyber-space.) Anyway, I see him as a hero for exposing our country’s incompetence, especially when it comes to our murderous and immoral wars.

    No controversy in that statement, I’m sure!

  37. paulie Post author

    I’m sure the chronic paranoids (I don’t mean Jill since she seems to be open minded) will only find that to be further “proof” that wikileaks is an inside job.

  38. Jill Pyeatt

    I’d like to point out that someone named inDglass has raised concerns about Assange similar to what I suggested in the thread that’s entitled: Starchild: Porposed Resolution…

  39. Maybe Not

    Yes, and so far his “evidence” is some conspiracy-laden article by a very dubious ex-LaRouchie. Puuhleeze.

  40. paulie Post author

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2011/01/starchild-proposed-resolution-of-libertarian-support-for-julian-assange-and-wikileaks/

    I think Starchild already answered that line of attack well:

    ?Just about the only scenario I can think of under which I would not be grateful were if WikiLeaks turned out to be simply a massive disinformation campaign, with the leaks being generally false information released at the direction of government authorities themselves. Given the responses of those authorities to date however, I think we can pretty much rule that possibility out!?

  41. Be Rational

    WikiLeaks could, however, be used by governments as a disinformation tool by inserting false bits of information along with the real leaks. They could allow a leak to take place, complain that it happened, and let the false data appear as a real leak.

  42. Be Rational

    Yes. But that’s where a well crafted false leak would be succesful, when it appears to be real and is not detected.

    This isn’t a criticism of the value of WikiLeaks, which I support, just a note that, as always, we have to be cautious and aware.

  43. Bruce Cohen

    Yes it’s SO suspicious that Assange’s Wikileaks make Israel look good.

    Especially since most people consider him and his staff to be anti-Semitic.

    If anything, they would have gone the opposite direction, should they have been biasing things.

    Jill’s personal bias is showing.

    Just like her bias for the molester in the CA LP.

  44. paulie Post author

    Especially since most people consider him and his staff to be anti-Semitic.

    Source for survey results?

    Just like her bias for the molester in the CA LP.

    “Let’s all play nice here on IPR folks, and I thank you all in advance.”

  45. Jill Pyeatt

    Once again, Bruce is making things up.

    Bruce, where is the evidence that I’m anti-semetic?I’ve got almost 4700 Facebook friends. I’m sure you know some of them. I challenge you to have one of them come up with one sentence that I’m anti-semetic. And while you’re at it, where’s your evidence that I’m partial to a certain child molester? I guess you didn’t know that I resigned my spot on the LNC so I wouldn’t have to serve with him. And don’t go talking about the email I sent you, like you’ve done before, because I have NEVER sent you an email. It’s all a figment of your increasingly bizarre imagination.

    This is a sincere challenge, Bruce. I won’t hold my breath, because you won’t find anything.

    What the hell is your problem with me? I’ve never even met you. Maybe you haven’t noticed that I don’t complain about WAR any more. I haven’t for months. Or, are you even paying attention?

    I have a business, a house, a husband, a straight-A student son who’s ready to go off to college, and 5 animals to take care of. What’s going on in your life? What success can you show? Our Region is Pasadena is really starting to come alive again, with me as chair. How welcome are you at Libertarian events?

    What have you accomplished in your life?

    What kind of a MAN are you to pick on someone you’ve never met???

    F**CK off Bruce!

  46. paulie Post author

    Folks, please cool the personal stuff and if possible, get back on topic.

    Do we need to put up a “urination contest” open thread? Maybe we’ll call it IPR-Leaks or something.

    Bruce, as I have told you before, most of my ancestors were Jewish, and many of them were killed in the holocaust (others by the Stalinists).
    If Jill said anything Judaeophobic, I’d join you in calling her out on it. She hasn’t.

    I think above she was possibly implying that she is of Jewish descent herself? See #57.

  47. George Phillies

    We know exactly what the leaked documents say. They are all available on the web at antiwar.com.

    We do not know what the unleaked documents say.

    Of more interest, we are starting to learn what the negotiators notes and minutes of the Palestine negotiations say, for the last two decades. They were just leaked to Al-Jazeera. Unsurprisingly, they are almost all in English.

    Expect the next Palestinian elections, recalling that Palestine is now one of the substantial number of more-or-less democratic countries in the middle east, along with, e.g., Turkey, Lebanon, and Iraq (Iran appears to be losing that status again, all the worse for them), among others.

    Country? As recognizes at this point by a significant number of other countries.

  48. Thomas L. Knapp

    Quoth Bruce Cohen,

    “most people consider [Julian Assange] and his staff to be anti-Semitic.”

    Who’s this “most people?” The only person I’ve seen accuse Assange and Co. of being anti-Semitic is you, and sometimes it’s hard to find anyone you’re NOT accusing of being anti-Semitic.

  49. Robert Capozzi

    IF Assange turns out to be part of a disinformation campaign, it would be a most amazing one. WikiLeaks made the State look awfully bad.

    I keep in mind that just because the State has a lot of resources, they are hardly infallible. They still haven’t been able to explain the whole WMD in Iraq assertion, for ex.

  50. Thomas L. Knapp

    Bob @ 77,

    You write:

    “They still haven’t been able to explain the whole WMD in Iraq assertion, for ex.”

    I guess that depends on what you mean by “the whole WMD in Iraq assertion.”

    It quickly became obvious, post-invasion anyway, that Rumsfeld, Powell, et. al were lying when they pretended to have a good handle on what Saddam had and where it was. Thus the bizarre “midnight convoys to Syria made that stuff disappear” disinformation campaigns.

    And some of the subsequently trumpeted (especially by War Party shills like Dondero) “discoveries” (sarin artillery shells, the IAEA-impounded yellowcake at Tawaitha, etc.) were quickly exposed as pre-1991-war stuff that was almost certainly not under Saddam’s control at any time between the 1991 war and the 2003 invasion.

    On the other hand, Wikileaks itself revealed that previously-Saddam-controlled WMD assets were in fact located and destroyed by the invasion/occupation forces.

  51. Robert Capozzi

    tk, “lying” is another word that can get quite elastic. Sipos the Mind Reader may know whether Rummie, for ex., knew that the WMD were not there. I don’t. People convince themselves of things all the time; scant information becomes a slam dunk in a groupthink bunker.

    No fan of Rummie or that cast of characters. But I don’t read minds.

    Is there a smoking-gun document that shows Compound W was purposely misrepresenting the WMD in Iraq charge?

  52. Thomas M. Sipos on Capozzi's Obsession

    Capozzi: “Sipos the Mind Reader may know whether Rummie…”

    Wow! Talk about being obsessed!

    I must have really hit a nerve in Capozzi. He can’t stop calling me a “mind reader,” despite my insistent denials.

    Why the obsession, Capozzi?

    You’re injecting me into more off-topic threads than I inject Root.

  53. Thomas L. Knapp

    Bob,

    You write:

    “‘lying’ is another word that can get quite elastic”

    I have yet to run into any concept that you don’t attempt to impart incredible quantities of elasticity to.

    I suspect that our metaphysics/ontology are very similar, but our epistemological approach is very, very different.

  54. Robert Capozzi

    maybe, yes, I have. Manipulation is not the same as KNOWING that WMD did not exist in Iraq. Shading facts isn’t quite the same as outright fabrication. Fabrication is certainly a possibility. Manipulating the possibility that WMD were still in Iraq as justification for a decision already made seems possible, even likely, but I’m not aware of an admission of a first-hand confession. Connecting dots and speculation is not proof, IMO. I view that as counter-manipulation.

    (In my case, I don’t think the Iraq War was justified, even if the WMD intel had been correct. I generally oppose pre-emptive strikes of any kind on any number of grounds.)

  55. paulie Post author

    There’s also this:

    http://www.trinicenter.com/oops/ciadod.html

    CIA and DOD Attempted To Plant WMD In Iraq
    by Iraqwar.ru
    June 20, 2003

    A DOD whistleblower detail an attempt by a covert U.S. team to plant weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The team was later killed by friendly fire due to CIA incompetence.
    Pentagon Whistleblower Reveals CIA/ DoD Fiascos
    In a world exclusive, Al Martin Raw.com has published a news story about a Department of Defense whistleblower who has revealed that a US covert operations team had planted “Weapons of Mass Destruction” (WMDs) in Iraq – then “lost” them when the team was killed by so-called “friendly fire.”

    The Pentagon whistleblower, Nelda Rogers, is a 28-year veteran debriefer for the Defense Department. She has become so concerned for her safety that she decided to tell the story about this latest CIA-military fiasco in Iraq.

    According to Al Martin Raw.com, “Ms.Rogers is number two in the chain of command within this DoD special intelligence office. This is a ten-person debriefing unit within the central debriefing office for the Department of Defense.

    The information that is being leaked out is information “obtained while she was in Germany heading up the debriefing of returning service personnel, involved in intelligence work in Iraq for the Department of Defense and/or the Central Intelligence Agency.

    “According to Ms. Rogers, there was a covert military operation that took place both preceding and during the hostilities in Iraq,” reports Al Martin Raw.com, an online subscriber-based news/analysis service which provides “Political, Economic and Financial Intelligence.”

    Al Martin is a retired Lt. Commander (US Navy), the author of a memoir called “The Conspirators: Secrets of an Iran Contra Insider, ” and he is considered one of America’s foremost experts on corporate and government fraud.

    Ms. Rogers reports that this particular covert operation team was manned by ex-military personnel and that “the unit was paid through the Department of Agriculture in order to hide it, which is also very commonplace.”

    According to Al Martin Raw.com, “the Ag Department has often been used as a paymaster on behalf of the CIA, DIA, and NSA and others.”

    Accordng to the Al Martin Raw.com story, another aspect of Ms. Rogers’ report concerns a covert operation which was to locate the assets of Saddam Hussein and his family, including cash, gold bullion, jewelry and assorted valuable antiquities.

    The problem became evident when “the operation in Iraq involved 100 people, all of whom apparently are now dead, having succumbed to so-called ‘friendly fire.’ The scope of this operation included the penetration of the Central Bank of Iraq, other large commercial banks in Baghdad, the Iraqi National Museum and certain presidential palaces where monies and bullion were secreted.”

    “They identified about $2 billion of cash in US dollars, another $150 million in Euros, in physical banknotes, and about another $100 million in sundry foreign currencies ranging from Yen to British Pounds,” reports Al Martin.

    “These people died, mostly in the same place in Baghdad, supposedly from a stray cruise missile or a combination of missiles and bombs that went astray,” Martin continues. “There were supposedly 76 who died there and the other 24 died through a variety of ‘friendly fire,’ ‘mistaken identity,’ and some of them – their whereabouts are simply unknown.”

    Ms. Rogers’ story sound like an updated 21st Century version of Treasure Island meets Ali Baba and the Bush Cabal Thieves, writes Martin.

    “This was a contingent of CIA/ DoD operatives, but it was really the CIA that bungled it, Ms. Rogers said. They were relying on the CIA’s ability to organize an effort to seize these assets and to be able to extract these assets because the CIA claimed it had resources on the ground within the Iraqi army and the Iraqi government who had been paid. That turned out to be completely bogus. As usual.”

    “CIA people were supposed to be handling it,” Martin continues. “They had a special ‘black (unmarked) aircraft to fly it out. But none of that happened because the regular US Army showed up, stumbled onto it and everyone involved had to scramble.

    These new Iraqi “Asset Seizures” go directly to the New US Ruling Junta. The US Viceroy in Iraq Paul Bremer is reportedly drinking Saddam Hussein’s $2000 a bottle Napoleon era brandy, smoking his expensive Davidoff cigars and he has even furnished his Baghdad office with Saddam’s Napolean era antique furniture

    The Iraq Debacle Du Jour has evidently been extensively documented by the DIA debriefing teams with “extensive tape recordings of interviews with the Iraqi returnees, the covert operatives (as well as their affidavits).”

    Al Martin Raw.com has dubbed this “Operation Skim Iraq.”

    Reproduced from:
    http://www.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_article.php?articleId=9474&lang=en

  56. Robert Capozzi

    tms82, obsessed about your mind reading abilities? Hmm, I’d like to think not. It probably depends on one’s def. of “obsession.”

    As a frequent poster who seems certain of other people’s motive, I use your abilities as an example for illustrative purposes only. Most people — including me — seem to infer motives that are unspoken, but you seem far more insistent about the correctness of your particular take on another’s agenda than most other brothers and sisters with whom I am familiar.

    I will say that life would be a whole lot easier if one could in fact read minds. I do consider it possible to possess such a skill.

  57. Robert Capozzi

    p85, thanks. That seems awfully damning, if true. However, even if it was true, it still would not prove “fabrication,” though it might suggest a cover-up of an embarrassing non-fact.

    The “friendly-fire” deaths have a 9/11-was-an-inside-job feel to it, as if these failed fabricators were in effect assassinated. Maybe they were! It certainly sounds suspicious, if true.

  58. paulie Post author

    Let’s just say that things like this have been known to happen. I won’t go into any details that I may or may not personally know, except to mention that I did some work for a civilian military contractor in a war zone in Central America.

  59. paulie Post author

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

    Excerpts:

    The carefully-worded UN resolution put the burden on Iraq, not UN inspectors, to prove that they no longer had weapons of mass destruction. The United States claimed that Iraq’s latest weapons declaration left materials and munitions unaccounted for; the Iraqis claimed that all such material had been destroyed, something which had been stated years earlier by Iraq’s highest ranking defector, Hussein Kamel al-Majid.

    …………

    Scott Ritter argued that the WMDs Saddam had in his possession all those years ago, if retained, would have long since turned to harmless substances. He stated that Iraqi Sarin and tabun have a shelf life of approximately five years, VX lasts a bit longer (but not much longer), and finally he said botulinum toxin and liquid anthrax last about three years.[75][76]

    ………

    In an interview with BBC in June 2004, David Kay, former head of the Iraq Survey Group, made the following comment:

    “Anyone out there holding – as I gather Prime Minister Blair has recently said – the prospect that, in fact, the Iraq Survey Group is going to unmask actual weapons of mass destruction, [is] really delusional.”

    In 2002, Scott Ritter, a former UNSCOM weapons inspector heavily criticized the Bush administration and Media outlets for using the testimony of an alleged former Iraqi Nuclear Scientist Khidir Hamza, who defected from Iraq in 1994 as a rationale for invading Iraq;

    We seized the entire records of the Iraqi Nuclear program, especially the administrative records. We got a name of everybody, where they worked, what they did, and the top of the list, Saddam’s “Bombmaker” [Which was the title of Hamza’s book, and earned the nickname afterwards] was a man named Jafar Dhia Jafar, not Khidir Hamza, an if you go down the list of the senior administrative personnel you will not find Hamza’s name in there. In fact, we didn’t find his name at all. Because in 1990, he didn’t work for the Iraqi Nuclear Program. He had no knowledge of it because he worked as a kickback specialist for Hussein Kamel in the Presidential Palace.

    He goes into northern Iraq and meets up with Ahmad Chalabi. He walks in and says, i’m Saddam’s “Bombmaker”. So they call the CIA and they say, “we know who you are, you’re not Saddam’s “Bombmaker”, go sell your story to someone else.” And he was released, he was rejected by all intelligence services at the time, he’s a fraud.

    And here we are, someone who the CIA knows is a fraud, the US Government knows is a fraud, is allowed to sit in front of the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and give testimony as a expert witness. I got a problem with that, I got a problem with the American media, and iv’e told them over and over and over again that this man is a documentable fraud, a fake, and yet they allow him to go on CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, and testify as if he actually knows what he is talking about. [83]

    …………..

    On May 29, 2003, Andrew Gilligan appears on the BBC’s Today program early in the morning. Among the contentions he makes in his report are that the government “ordered (the September Dossier, a British Government dossier on WMD) to be sexed up, to be made more exciting, and ordered more facts to be…discovered.” The broadcast is not repeated.[88]

    On May 27, 2003, a secret Defense Intelligence Agency fact-finding mission in Iraq reported unanimously to intelligence officials in Washington that two trailers captured in Iraq by Kurdish troops “had nothing to do with biological weapons.” The trailers had been a key part of the argument for the 2003 invasion; Secretary of State Colin Powell had told the United Nations Security Council, “We have firsthand descriptions of biological weapons factories on wheels and on rails. We know what the fermenters look like. We know what the tanks, pumps, compressors and other parts look like.” The Pentagon team had been sent to investigate the trailers after the invasion. The team of experts unanimously found “no connection to anything biological”; one of the experts told reporters that they privately called the trailers “the biggest sand toilets in the world.” The report was classified, and the next day, the CIA publicly released the assessment of its Washington analysts that the trailers were “mobile biological weapons production.” The White House continued to refer to the trailers as mobile biological laboratories throughout the year, and the Pentagon field report remained classified. It is still classified, but a Washington Post report of April 12, 2006 disclosed some of the details of the report. According to the Post:

    A spokesman for the DIA asserted that the team’s findings were neither ignored nor suppressed, but were incorporated in the work of the Iraqi Survey Group, which led the official search for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. The survey group’s final report in September 2004 – 15 months after the technical report was written – said the trailers were “impractical” for biological weapons production and were “almost certainly intended” for manufacturing hydrogen for weather balloons.[89] ”

    ……….

    On February 8, 2004, Dr Hans Blix, in an interview on BBC TV, accused the U.S. and UK governments of dramatising the threat of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, in order to strengthen the case for the 2003 war against the government of Saddam Hussein.

    ……….

  60. Thomas M. Sipos

    Capozzi: “obsessed about your mind reading abilities? Hmm, I’d like to think not.”

    “Hmmm,” yourself.

    When you start insisting that I’m a mind reader, in threads where I’m not even an active participant, I’d call that an “obsession.”

    Capozzi: “It probably depends on one’s def. of “obsession.””

    Probably? We’re using words here. Of course it depends on our definition of whatever words we use. That goes for every word in every post.

    Thanks for stating the obvious. What will you say next? That water is wet?

  61. Robert Capozzi

    tms90, thank you for your concern. I agree that water is wet. I can honestly say that the thought of Sipos never occurs to me except when I see your posts on IPR OR — sometimes — when someone else on IPR speculates about other people’s motives.

    Sometimes, when I’m not online, I will contemplate something Knapp, Paulie, Starchild and, of late, “Gains” or “Be Rational” wrote, because I find some of their posts interesting and thought provoking. I don’t rule out contemplating your posts in the future if I find them interesting; attacks on fellow Ls based either on mind-reading or heavily inferred conclusions I don’t find interesting. Others may, though.

  62. Thomas M. Sipos

    Capozzi: “attacks on fellow Ls based either on mind-reading or heavily inferred conclusions I don’t find interesting”

    If you don’t find your delusions of my “mind reading” interesting, then 1. you wouldn’t have formed such delusions to begin with, and 2, you wouldn’t keep making the accusation.

    That I keep denying that I’m a mind reader, yet you keep insisting that I am, qualifies as an “obsession.”

    You have formed a delusion, and are obsessed with it. You should seek help in overcoming it.

  63. Gains

    Personally, I often enjoy both TS and RS’s posts. I wish they would get a long a bit more and argue topically so I could better learn from comparing, contrasting and challenging their assertions and pondering. It feels to me as a (until now) passive part of the conversation, that both of y’all disagree in a peculiar fashion. TS calls it obsession, I call it on both sides as ad hominem. In my experience it is the sort of competition two people jealous when over the attention of peers get into… right before they become fast friends.

    If you ask me, and I should probably keep my mouth shut and my fingers still on this, you guys might try being a little more fair to each others’ posts. I think that I would get more out of it if you did… so consider this advice fully selfish in origin and I beg you both to weigh it with no more importance, clarity or nefariousness than that.

  64. Robert Capozzi

    tms92, ya know, you may be right. Perhaps I am delusional and obsessed about what appears to me to be mind-reading abilities but may just be awesome deductive and inductive powers on your part. I’m certainly a work in progress, but if I’ve careened into a profound dysfunction in this matter, it seems like a rather inconsequential challenge to me and for me in the big picture. I’ve got more important dysfunctions to address, but thank you for your concern.

    Perhaps you’ve not “gotten” that when I suggest you are a “mind reader,” it’s my way of saying that you have a penchant for leaping to conclusions about the motives of other people, specifically Root. I of course assume you are NOT a “mind reader,” but rather are making wild accusations based on extrapolations from historical observations, often gathered through indirect means.

    Hope that clears things up for you.

    When I read your motive-reading extrapolations, I do find them interesting, btw.

  65. Ayn R. Key

    Bruce @35
    “Jill just hates Jews and Israel.
    Sieg Heil Jill.”

    It’s always fascinating seeing you make accusations of religious bigotry. Then there are the things you have said to me over my weirdo religion…

  66. FYI! [More Don Lake]

    Jill Pyeatt // Jan 24, 2011:

    “Once again, Bruce is making things up.”

    [Lake: His long term MO, Modus Operendi, and he gets real slippery on the ‘justification’ of the murder, in international waters, of US Sailors on the non combatant USS Liberty *. He is also *private correspondence* NOT an open borders type. A three page Liberty * attack commentary was mailed to you, snail mail, quite recently. Let donlake@ymail.com know if you have a postal address which is appropriate, more appropriate. Do not hold back on doubting other people’s lack of ethics. The Jewish Mafia, the Isreal First American Zionists of the Deform Party of California, planned and killed both the national blog and the monthly print organ to dodge an article of the Liberty * in 2005. John Dennis Coffey, John Bambey [$500 check from Frank McKay], Valli Sharpe Giesler and political mushie mind, six pointed star nazi John Blare ……….]

    * kinda ironic ain’t it, least force, lack of intervention, Libertarians and libertarians so mum on the dead and dying on the USS Liberty …….. LP, thy name is hypocrisy!

  67. FYI! [More Don Lake]

    Covert stuff is the antithesis of ‘transparency’. [John Dennis Coffey used my voice mail and my email to keep in contact with John Blare. Some times while I was away. Some times while I was sleeping in the next room.]

    It can also be brutal on the participants. Just hours B4 the German invasion of Poland, slavic and/ or Jewish ‘looking’ camp prisoners were dressed in Polish style military garments.

    Armed Germans were posted behind them and they, empty rifles in hand, were forced to advance on a German radio shack just out side of the Polish border.

    The nazi ‘civilian’ media folks, [hey it is a radio station, right?] just happen to have loads of film and audio recording equipment on hand. The ‘rogue’ Polish active duty military [yeah, right, sure] were caught ‘aggressing’ toward the media facility ——- and then being mowed down by the ‘defenders’ of the Third Reich.

    Back when Hitler thot it mattered, the ‘attack’ on the radio out post was used as a widely disseminated, yet eventually ‘lost’ record and excuse to march to Warsaw.

    Dozens of Eye Witnesses and Ear Witnesses can contest to the fate of the ‘Invaders’. May be the ‘assistants’ were also dealt with harshly.

    [Ben Frankin: ‘Three men can keep a secret ——- if two are dead!]

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