FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE May 1, 2012
Contact: 202-635-3739
LIBERTARIANS FOR PEACE
ENCOURAGES STRONG NONINTERVENTIONIST CANDIDATES,
CRITICIZES LIBERTARIAN PARTY “ISRAEL LOBBY” LEADER
On the eve of the Libertarian Party’s 2012 National Convention – celebrating the party’s 40th
anniversary – members of Libertarians for Peace caucus of the party encourage the Presidential and
Vice Presidential candidates to promote the strong pro-peace and noninterventionist platform of the
Libertarian Party which reads:
American foreign policy should seek an America at peace with the world. Our foreign policy should
emphasize defense against attack from abroad and enhance the likelihood of peace by avoiding
foreign entanglements. We would end the current U.S. government policy of foreign intervention,
including military and economic aid. We recognize the right of all people to resist tyranny and
defend themselves and their rights. We condemn the use of force, and especially the use of
terrorism, against the innocent, regardless of whether such acts are committed by governments or
by political or revolutionary groups.
* We applaud nominee for LP presidential candidate R. Lee Wrights who has made central to his
campaign an unqualified pledge to stop all U.S. wars through ending foreign alliances, closing down
military bases and bringing the troops home.
* We applaud nominee Governor Gary Johnson’s strong opposition to the war in Afghanistan but
want to hear him speak even more firmly against entangling alliances; unequivocably against the
U.S. supporting in any way an Israeli or U.S. attack on Iran; in full support of the U.S. quickly shutting
down of Guantanamo detention camp and all foreign bases, as well as bringing all U.S. troops home.
These positions have brought massive support for Republican Presidential candidate Ron Paul – and
the Libertarian Party candidate certainly can do no less.
* We applaud Vice Presidential nominee Judge James P. Gray’s support for Palestinian human and
property rights, and the right to self-determination in their own state, but hope Gray, like Johnson,
also will adopt an even stronger noninterventionist stand.
Libertarians for Peace also strongly criticizes statements by Wayne Allyn Root, the leader of
the Libertarian Party’s small defacto “Israel lobby.” As the 2008 Libertarian Party vice presidential
candidate and/or as a Libertarian National Committee member Root publicly has stated: he is “as
pro-Israel as any human being in the world can possibly be”; his rejection of Palestinian property
rights crying he was “sickened and outraged by Obama’s demand for Israel to return to its 1967
borders”; arguments regarded as “Islamophobic”; that libertarians should not criticize Israel because
Jews “provide a majority of the donations to Democratic politicians” and to Republicans and that only
by taking such money can the Libertarian Party succeed; his endorsement of Gary Johnson with the
statement that Johnson is “A Libertarian in every way…yet still a huge supporter of Israel.”
For more information about these issues go to our web site .
The press release, including quite a bit of supporting documentation, can be found right here .
Is is important to note that neither Gary Johnson nor James Gray are official candidates at the time. The choices will be made at the Libertarian National Convention in Las Vegas, May 5, 2012.
Carol, what you are pointing out in terms of revenue is not alot of money. Extract expenses for and then you have a different story.
What AIPAC spends on Congress is relevant and from what you see there, it’s minuscule.
There is your proof.
What you just said amounts to parlor math.
@94
Agreed.
Hmmm, I’ve heard Bruce is trying to become relevant again. This sort of silliness doesn’t help him achieve that goal…
Was Judge Gray’s ‘selection’ to appease the antisemitic wing of the LP? (Carol MooRe, Harland ‘Hamas’ Harrison, Kevin Kookenaga…)
Or the child molester wing?
(Mary RuWart, Matt Boornes, Rick Nuthouse…)
Or could it be both, since most of the folks in one group are in the other?
AIPAC guides hundreds of political action committees, most with innocuous sounding names, that decide which candidates will get the big money to defeat anyone who criticizes Israel. So your evidence is irrelevant. Though one does have to wonder how AIPAC spends the 63 plus million a year it gets, in 2009 48 million from one individual and 13 million from another, according to IRS filings that make nonprofits report all amounts over $5000 from one donor.
http://original.antiwar.com/smith-grant/2011/08/09/does-aipac-have-only-two-major-donors/ Hopefully last correction of false or deceptive claims I’ll have to make for this thread!!
Not necessary. This is my last comment.
Here is your proof on the amount of influence any Jewish, Zionist lobby or AIPAC has…. Almost none compared to all others.
Here is the breakdown on the amount of lobbying they do and spending the do for all of you conspiracy nuts to see.
Here is the data and it can’t be disputed . Jews in the United States, in spite of what the anti Semites want you to believe, won’t and don’t make the top 20. Read it and weep. There goes twenty years of writing and preaching on your part down in flames.
Top Lobbying Contracts in the United States:
( No one made it. )
http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=f
Top spending by interest groups in the United States. ( No one made it again. )
http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s
There you go… There is your proof. The Jews and Zionists are not trying to control the world at all!
I have a life to lead, and will not comment again.
Would it help if I ask nicely? I’ll try.
Get a room, please.
@84… Right! A room in Mongolia preferred.
Well this Libertarian is not going to be “bullied” into silence by you or anyone. However I do delight in pointing out the blatant anti semitism in your arguments.
The fact of the matter is Carol, that there are a million and one ways to argue against foreign aid. The fact that you and your lot pick the anti Semitic ones show your true intention.
You are better off owning your hatred and being upfront. It worked better for Hitler. I’m glad you don’t.
I wish you the worst of luck finding a dumb naive Jewish man.
Sorry, Libertarians just are not that easily bullied into silence… but like the moderator said, get a room, take it elsewheres…
Carol, I don’t know you from Adam, even all the Adams in New York city…. and who you need to find one on your own. )
I do take complete offense when you start spinning anti-semitic Zionist conspiracy theories and the old anti semitic tropes used by Hitler, like the Jews were resposible for World War I.
The authors of that book you quote from ( or literary trash ) revised history and they do not even use correct factual information. They were also well known anti-Semites prior to writing it.
In fact Mearsheiner ( your co author ) just endorsed a book by Atsmon titled, “The Wandering Who” where he says that we need to take seriously the issue of Jews trying to control the world.
So if that us whom you cast your lot with, then we have nothing in common.
And no, you need to find your own New York Jew. I won’t take part in that.
I don’t know if you are a true anti Semite or simply misguided, but what you are saying is not criticism at all of Israeli policies. It’s endorsement of the writings of known Jew haters!
Heee heeee heeee…. Aaron must have read one of my posts about having the hots for ballsy Jewish boys, especially from NYC. Maybe readying a 64th birthday present for me today :-0 ???
Get a room
Oh, please, lying about people and harassing them on these IPR threads is the sort of thing that gets people curious.
Wow so you are stalking me on Facebook, the Internet and asking about me now?
You are crazy!
Obviously I would not try to befriend you, but there was some other button I pushed that I thought was public info. Whatever. Anyway, on the Facebook thread people also complain about your making stuff up that you claimed they said and of course you yelled antisemite. At least I only found a few threads where you do this. But how terribly tacky. Enough already.
You just tried to add me as a “friend” on Facebook too. After this I feel like you just decided to stalk me. Should I be afraid?
Found Aaron Horvitz doing his proIsrael lobbying among libertarians on facebook and added it to http://carolmoore.net/libertarianparty/bootroot He slimes people as antisemites there too, doubtless claiming they said things they didn’t say, like he does here. I take back little man. He looks like the kind of big guy who knows he could beat me up… but we’re not together in person, I guess….
Who said anything about Zionists starting World War II?? Familiar with the concept of STRAW MAN. Lie and say someone said something and that shoot it down as a Straw Man. Give it up already. You are a sad little man, Aaron.
Carol, there were Nazi Jewish generals that hid their ethnic background too. Does that mean there was a Zionist plot to put Hitler in power too?
Common get real!
World War II was started by the Japanese who bombed Pearl Harbor …. Not by Zionist youth. Incidentally Roosevelt turned away a boatload of German Jewish refugees who were turned back to die in concentration camps.
It’s amazing how much Zionist Conspiracy Baloney is out there.
Again do you believe that Martians are responsible for 9/11 too or was that a Mossad plot?
try….”young self-described liberal beCAME a bigoted murderous fascist…”
dang, we need edit on this… or I should self edit… 😉
Oh, please, it’s an academic publisher. Obviously Mein Kampf is of historical interest. An autobiography about how a young self-described liberal being a bigoted murderous fascist responsible for the deaths of 50-60 million people from 1933-1945.
Carol, please … Your Zionist Conspiracy Baloney is out of control. But in an earlier post you said you liked your Jewish men … All from New York? Not going into the racism of that comment either. I’d say your wrong, I’m not little at all. I like my hotdogs Hebrew National.
Carol, by the way… Cambridge publishes Hitler’s book too along with a bunch of books by Marx. Maybe on that logic you should join the Nationalist Socialisf Party instead? After all… You love Cambridge.
You are a sad little man, Aaron.
OOPs, that quote is relevant to World War I. For quotes about about what a boon World War II was for American Zionists see Aaron Berman “Nazism, the Jews and American Zionism, 1933-1948″m pages 85 and 178 and thereabouts. Or search “Roosevelt Zionists World War II” in books google. Lots of info in books Aaron wants to see BURNED…
Carol, again with the Zionist Conspiracy Baloney?
You should be nominated for ZCB Queen of America but your just not that significant after all.
I am sure Aaron would like to see University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) professor James Gelvins’s book published by Cambridge University Press which contains the relevant material make the case for Zionists pushing for US entry into World War Two ILLEGAL. I’m sure he wants Gelvin IN PRISON for defamation of all Jews (as opposed to telling the truth about a small number of Jews). See the quote from the book Aaron wants burned at https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/05/libertarians-for-peace-issue-press-release/#comment-743774
Carol….Stating there was a Zionist plot to drive the US into World War I to somehow germinate the foundation of a Jewish State is not a standard critique of Israel.
It’s paranoid, delusional and disgusting.
Further you are no better than all the trash that came before you that stated that.
If you do represent the Libertarian mainstream, like you claim, then that puts the Libertarian movememt at odds with human civilization, and there’s is no chance the Libertarian Party will make it anywhere – because of people just like you.
Ron Paul read the newsletters. It’s not possible to go through 20 years, file taxes on a million dollars of gross profit, and then one day wake up and read them. No one believes that garbage either and it’s why he plummeted in the election polling.
Gene @55: . http://pro-choicelibertarians.net is still with us, just in case it is needed.
Yup, I used the antisemitism card back in 1988. I did feel his criticism of Israel were pandering to antisemites in some right wing publications/mailing lists, but the content is actually pretty standard material among critics of Israel today. So I understand political motivation to yell antisemite and have not done since except a couple times when people were attacking Jews as Jews, and this was stupid people who wandered into the peace movement in 20003-2007 period.
The other main thing he did at the time was some hysterical writings about AIDs which a lot of people criticized him on.
As for Paul claiming he didn’t read the newsletter and was too trusting, I tend to believe that. After all it turned out his financial and campaign manager for many years -m Nadia Hayes – was ripping him off hundreds of thousands dollars for years. He found out right at the end of the presidential race in 1988 and it was quite embarrassing. Funny how both mainstream media and REASON didn’t want to mention that factoid when I gave them .jpgs of LPNEWS and AMERICAN LIBERTARIAN from the time.
Paulie @ 64. Dang, if I’d been there I could use it to pick up dates. Love sexy Jewish guys, especially New Yorkers…
Carol
No Jewish Libertarians booth
The distribution makes alot of sense considering the 50 dollar annual price tag. Thank you for taking the time to clarify that and the timing.
Considering his campaign in 1988, that seemed like a huge inconsistency. He should answer for that.
Aaron – thanks for the link. If you look, you will see that only one newsletter is mentioned prior to 1989 – a 1978 issue which mentions The Trilateral Commission. Given the overwhelmingly white male nature of the Trilateral Commission, I doubt there was a racist attack on it.
The 1989 newsletters mentioned again either mention the TLC – which many Libertarians and Constitutionalists consider a pro-government cabal – or they are about the AIDS issue.
In fact, in 1987 and 1988 many Libertarians did take issue with some apparently homophobic statements and articles in Ron Paul’s newsletters or other writings. But there are no apparent mentions of racist articles in Ron Paul newsletters prior to 1990.
I agree Ron Paul must accept personal responsibility for the newsletters, and they, along with his age, are a major reason I have not gotten involved with the Ron Paul campaign this year.
And I assure you all his newsletters had limited circulation. I only ever saw one copy of a Ron Paul Survival Report, published in 1996. This was after Murray Rothbard died, and it had no racist content.
Actually, here you go. You can find PDF’s of each one here and the publication date. If you say they were not widely distributed, and you were there, then fine. But that is still not convincing in the face of the fact that he promoted this trash – even if it was written by others like Rockwell, et al.
http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/98883/ron-paul-incendiary-newsletters-exclusive
No if I recall they were in full publication ten years before the 1988 campaign! I just looked it up to double check.
There is an online list that points to the ones that have been uncovered to date.
If you would like the link I’d be happy to look it up and share it, but this was going on long before the 1988 campaign.
As an addendum – the racist newsletters were not “widely distributed.” They were published as financial newsletters with hefty subscription prices, inevitably sent to a select few willing to pay $50 a year (more in 1991 than it is now).
Since most people who received the newsletters were libertarians or JBS associated conservatives, the racist trash probably alienated more subscribers than they appealed to.
When Libertarians have tried to appeal to other tendencies – whether the “new left” or the Paleo Right – it usually rights in Libertarians assimilating to the potential allies, with few people actually being recruited from the target audience. That was certainly the case with the Ron Paul newsletters published in 1990 and 1991.
Aaron @ 55 – the racist newsletters were published in 1990 and 1991 – still the future when The Libertarian Party met in Seattle in 1987 to nominate Ron Paul.
In fact, it was the low vote total for Ron Paul – about 433,000 votes – that caused Murray Rothbard and Lew Rockwell to expand the Paleo Coalition to include “right-wing” populists – and that was the reason for the racist trash that Murray & Lew put out in Ron Paul’s name.
55 Aaron, the newsletters came AFTER the ’88 campaign, iirc.
Gene,
Why not be critical of his racist news letters, and why did the Libertarian Party back him in the face of that back in 1988? They were widely distributed.
Just for the historical record, I was involved in The Libertarian Party and the Ron Paul campaign in 1988. Ron Paul’s opposition to abortion was a controversy among Libertarians – I am pro-choice myself, as are many others who backed Ron Paul in 1988.
Carol Moore started a Pro-Choice Libertarians group in 1988, which mainly attacke Ron Paul for his stand on the issue. In the course of attacking Ron Paul, she also attacked Paul for some minor criticisms he made of Israel’s policies. She asked why Ron Paul singled out that little country for criticism.
I guess that is all down the Memory Hole.
The Cambridge University Press also publishes Mein Kampf, which is Hitler’s Jew hating auto biography. So what is your point?
I said the pretty much the same thing that the author published by the Cambridge University Press wrote. Guess they are part of your conspiracy theory too?
If you parrot Hitler’s major talking points, then yes you are a pure anti Semite. Case closed. There is no arguing that at all.
I am just pointing out how you pretty much parroted Hitler’s major campaign speech in your last post….. About the Jews taking over the world? Or was it about the vast paranoid conspiracy of zionists that started world war I?
Hitler needed anti psychotic medication too.
And…
Those were your words not mine.
You need to own them and stop back tracking by calling me paranoid. This is a simple fact. You are a racist and anti Semite.
See, you are being paranoid again. If you walk in a room of new people and first thing you say is: How many antisemites are there are? What someone criticized the STATE of Israel? They must be an antisemite. The party is very male dominated, but I don’t look for rapists every time I walk into a libertarian function. And I haven’t found any. (A few sexist pigs, however 🙂
You are. Funny thing is that I don’t always agree with Israel. Their policies change with every election. I completely disagree with Ron Paul regarding putting a US embassy in Jerusalem at Israel’s request. But because of my last name, it does not matter. You and other Libertarians hate me and dismiss me because I am a Jew. Not the majority of course but a large enough minority to make it noticable. There is no other reason for that.
However people like you and others in the Libertarian party like to shame Jews for who they are. I don’t care what they publicly proclaim on the Libertarisn party platform about bigotry. It should go without saying. What difference does it make anyway when you hate Jewish people? While Jew hate in the Libertarian party only comes from a minority of people, it’s large enough to poison the well for everyone.
For example: You just tried to blame Jews for World War I. That is pure hatred and right out of Hitler ‘s play book. In fact Hitler ran on a campaign saying the exact same things that you just posted in your previous posts.
There is no way that should go unnoticed. But unlike Europe before world war II, we have guns now and we do fight back. The Jews will no longer be kept down like dogs by people like you and we do actively fight back. That is what you anti Semites hate about having to adjust to in the modern era of bigotry and hatred – an even playing field!
Aaron, you better worry about the people trying to take LP condemnation of bigotry out of the platform. I mean REAL bigotry should be condemned. Wonder who’s doing it….
But I would agree that Brandeis was influenced by Wilson and endorsed for his anti trust work which made sure that Wilson, after appointing Brandeis, would have a person in the supreme court that might help advanced his social and economic policy. I don’t think though that Wilson was a push over for anyone.
Ummm… Its a widely accepted historical fact by professional American Historians, backed by loads of records, that Woodrow Wilson endorsed the racist and widely distributed film “Birth of a Nation” in 1915, made by none other than the KKK which back then was a huge and much more open organization.
In other words Wilson openly hated blacks and Jews. He was also a huge proponent of segregation.
In other words if Zionist or Jews of any kind got any audience or meeting with him, they would havd been spit on.
The idea that he would throw the nation into war to back some Zionist cause is absolutely asinine.
Reference for the quote: Gelvin, James (2005). The Israel-Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War. New York: Cambridge. pp. 82 and 83.
Thanks for keeping this issue alive before IPR readers and the media…
Obviously I mean the ZIONISTS who were giving (or loaning) money to the Brits to help them get the Balfour Declaration and then the Brits and the Zionists in this country lobbied Wilson. You know the history and MANY libertarians and peaceniks know it too….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
“The British did not know quite what to make of President Woodrow Wilson and his conviction (before America’s entrance into the war) that the way to end hostilities was for both sides to accept “peace without victory.” Two of Wilson’s closest advisors, Louis Brandeis and Felix Frankfurter, were avid Zionists. How better to shore up an uncertain ally than by endorsing Zionist aims? The British adopted similar thinking when it came to the Russians, who were in the midst of their revolution. Several of the most prominent revolutionaries, including Leon Trotsky, were of Jewish descent. Why not see if they could be persuaded to keep Russia in the war by appealing to their latent Jewishness and giving them another reason to continue the fight?” … These include not only those already mentioned but also Britain’s desire to attract Jewish financial resources.[13]
I don’t have time to read the article so I don’t know if Balfour’s writing he didn’t really give a damn about the Arabs getting kicked off their land is included on that page… Read elsewhere often enough…
Carol, so you are saying that Israeli lobbyists built a time machine to go back in time…. To lobby Woodrow Wilson, to get involved in World War I, when Israel did not even exist?
Is it possible that the Borg werd involved too?
Or did you forget to lithium this morning?
Rothbard is the first link above “WAR GUILT IN THE MIDDLE EAST” (hint: doesn’t blame Arabs)
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-159.html Sheldon Richman
http://mises.org/journals/jls/5_4/5_4_2.pdf
Stephen Halbrook
http://www.mises.org/journals/lar/pdfs/3_3/3_3_4.pdf
http://www.minaret.org/israeliaid.htm (on Minaret of Freedom – Ahmad)
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0305o.asp Richard Ebeling
After #17 is #18 which they haven’t gotten around to unmoderating because too many links. So here it is with the links in this and messages below…
Carol Moore // May 3, 2012 at 11:15 am
The Israel Lobby has been up to no good distorting US foreign policy since it encouraged Wilson to get into World War I. It’s gotten even worse since Kennedy was assassinated and Johnson took over and started arming them to the hilt. So, I’ve been complaining about it since 1979 when I started hanging around with Murray Rothbard and other Israel critics in the Libertarian Party in New York City. That pretty much ended MY infatuation with the state of Israel.
Ever hear of the book THE ISRAEL LOBBY AND US FOREIGN POLICY? Ever hear of MOVE OVER AIPAC (2011) and OCCUPY AIPAC (2012) conferences and protest where hundreds of peaceniks including Jewish peace groups showed up? Check out http://youtube.com/user/carolmoore Two videos on Jews vs. AIPAC. (And still have to do my another AIPAC video.) Get hip, Americans have a right to criticize Israel and its Israel Lobby supports and thousands more do it every day.
Here’s some libertarian critics of Israel supporting Palestinian property rights, even including getting land back stolen by Israelis since 1948. So you calling Rothbard, Richman, Ebeling, Halbrook, Ahmad antisemites too?:
No, I just want people to talk to Bruce about his comment that David Nolan was an antisemite so they can understand what a wack job he is. Is there a Jewish Libertarian booth? Most Jews in this country and even in the LP will not sacrifice Americans for Israel, just the hard core Israel lobbyist minority, a few of whom have infiltrated the party and are doing their best to control it. Or at least to control it so it doesn’t become an antisemitic party. As Scott Shore wrote in 2004 ”
I hate to be too jaded, but history does suggest that if we join political parties we should see it as a mere expedient since once it becomes “popular” enough and is controlled by non-Jews, it will inevitably creep toward anti-semitism. ” See http://carolmoore.net/libertarianparty/bootroot Thanks for reminding people to visit the site and read the press release!!
Carol, it sounds like you have a problem with Bruce being at the convention. Is that a threat or are you just teasing me a little 😉
Are your Zionist conspiracy theories “infiltrating” the Libertarian party real? Or do you just want to do a little goose step for us when you walk by a Jewish Libertarian booth?
Brian Holtz wrote above: ”But if you ignore a few editorial comments, then the first 3 pages of this LNC brief lay out a series of facts…” Actually a reading of the facts does make one question the current ruling faction. But then why did the Judicial Committee vote for them? What?s the link to their decision? I think you need both sets of facts. https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2011/11/lp-nat-com-votes-to-overturn-jc-on-oregon-lp/
Just keep bringing people here to read the press release, and Bruce Cohen calling David Nolan a bigoted antisemite. Bruce, are you at the convention or not? Does anybody know?? Thanks.
Here is the deal. Most racists like you claim not to be racist.
You may say something like, “I am not against blacks. I just think they should ride at the back of the bus.” That is blatantly racist.
It’s the same thing as saying, “I am not against Jews. I just think they should all be expelled from Israel.”
or even now.
“I am not against women. I am a feminist. I just think that Arab leaders should force women to have their clitoris chopped off.”
Think and believe what you want to believe. But that is a bunch of crap, and you need therapy.
Really you are the one that just admitted to spreading anti-Israel propaganda while pretendng to be a non interventionist libertarian.
I never mentioned any propaganda. I just pointed out how your logic just can not jive at all.
Common on now.
Oh, please, Mr Aaron Horvitz. Your statist propaganda here is causing all the problems. Enough all ready.
If you feel Israel is a rogue state, then at least now you are being openly honest with people. But don’t claim to support non interventionism and then make pamphlets that promote anti-Israel stances.
All you are doing is insulting everyone’s intelligence that way, by pretending to be something you are not.
On the next point again…You support the Palestinian leadership and their cause openly. You have done so too many times to count. Back tracking on this and claiming you don’t also insults everyone’s intelligence. Please stop. We are not stupid.
Their leadership promotes forcing Sharia law on their people. Therefore you either support a group that wants to impose Sharia law on people or you don’t, and by extension a group that wants the state to force women to have the clitoris chopped off.
That I might also add, Carol Moore, makes you a statist. Advocating leadership that wants to force women to have their clitoris chopped of is not liberty!
What is your evidence I support any such groups. Hint, criticizing a rogue state that abuses human and property rights does NOT mean you support any groups that also do those things. Logical inconsistency born of extreme partisanship to a foreign nation by a person who probably isn’t even a libertarian.
You still have not answered why you are advocating and supporting anti-Feminist groups that want to strip individuals of the Liberty by forcing Sharia law on them.
That is definitely not pro women and the dominant one, Hamas, advocates cutting off a woman’s clitoris. This is an open fact, that the dominant pro Arab- Palestinian group, like Hamas, puts forth rabidly, openly and publicly.
We already established that you are really an interventionist and want to promote Arab Palestinian causes. That is why you said you single out Israel.
Now please explain how you can support Hamas and be a feminist when they want to impose Sharia Law and cut off a woman’s clitoris.
You took this position, not me.
Waiting for my moderation reply to jump up, but people like Aaron are so obsessed with protecting Israel that we cannot take them seriously. He’ll probably deny it was Israeli’s who bombed the Liberty – or say “Oh, they were BLIND Israeli pilots so they just didn’t SEE the big American flag on the ship as they bombed away for 40 minutes or two hours or whatever it was.” I was a brainwashed pro-Israel person for another 12 years AFTER that til I started hanging around with Libertarians and Murray Rothbard in 1979 in New York City.
One More Time:
” June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel.
The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it.
Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public.
The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.
……. surveying USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights …….”
But let’s go into position on Feminism. I don’t think you are a femenist either! I comlpetely challenge you on that. I think you are a complete fake!
Do you believe that all women should be forced to have their clitoris chopped off, like they do in the Arab states and as advocated by Palestian Hamas under forced Sharia law?
AND – let me add. You finally admit you are singling out Isael…. and this is not about non intervention like you claim. Thank you for being honest for once!
That proves you are an anti- semite.
Um, Carol – you are the one that accused pro-Israeli infiltrators of influencing the Libertarian Party in your literature.
Act logically and think logically with a little bit of education and understanding, and you might get somewhere. The truth is that you are so insignificant, I doubt the Israeli lobby in the US knows who you are.
Good peolpe are being driven away from the Libertarian party because of people like you that want to spread conspiracy theories -and paranoi – which is insane.
You mean the $100,000 a year those Palestinians are paying me. Dang, I forgot to go the convention and rent a big booth and import 300 Arab delegates with the money. Seek help for your paranoid fear of Gentiles, Aaron. Than heavens as a feminist I’m not THAT scared of males – or angry at them, or desirous of crushing them all into the ground. Of course, I do enjoy making fun of the more officious, obnoxious, power mongering, full of baloney ones. Does that make me a bad libertarian??
Carol, I think the reality here is that you are spreading conspiracy theories and invoking anti Semitic arguments for your own benefit.
There is no pro Israel lobby infiltrating the Libertarian party unless you want to call yourself a pro Palestinian infiltrator. In fact you number more than the pro Israel supporters. Why people are afraid of you and your group is beyond me. You are all pathetically harmless.
Ironically the pro Palestinian groups in the US tend to be on the militant side. If you support that kind of militancy and US intervention on the side of Arab Palestinians…. Just say so. But it is not Libertarian.
Also just because you believe all the lies about how Israel DIDN’T steal most of its land from its rightful owners, doesn’t mean that 95% of the world believes them. Here’s one libertarian link that really gets into the dirty details of theft of Arab/Palestinian lands since 1948. The Alienation of a Homeland: How Palestine Became Israel by Stephen Halbrook (who won TWO big gun cases at the Supreme Court level, one getting the Branch Davidians sentences reduced 25 years each). http://mises.org/journals/jls/5_4/5_4_2.pdf
Hey, Bruce, are you at the convention? I’m sure lots of people will want to come up and ask you for details about that. ha ha ha
David F. Nolan
I do not recall making any statements about Israel that could even remotely be called “hateful.” I have, however, spoken out clearly against sending American troops or tax dollars to that country … or any other. That’s the Libertarian position.
June 12 (2010) 1:01 AM
I’m a witness to David Nolan saying very hateful things about Israel and speaking in a derogatory way about “Jews”. In person, in private, in front of witnesses, numerous ocassions.
He SAYS he is an equal opportunity ‘Foreign Aid’ basher, but he’s not.
Just like Carol Moore, he believed the lies about Israel and Jews, and singles them out.
I have yet another Lobby leveling reply to Aaron but it’s caught in moderation cause I stuck 5 links to PH.D. Libertarian’s support for Palestinian rights on it. If you must know now see the Libs4Peace supporting documents at http://libertarians4peace.net/PressRelease5-01-12.pdf (plus the updated version where corrected “nominee” faux pas) Hey, if you are the convention print out hundreds and distribute them all over!!
The Israel Lobby has been up to no good distorting US foreign policy since it encouraged Wilson to get into World War I. It’s gotten even worse since Kennedy was assassinated and Johnson took over and started arming them to the hilt. So, I’ve been complaining about it since 1979 when I started hanging around with Murray Rothbard and other Israel critics in the Libertarian Party in New York City. That pretty much ended MY infatuation with the state of Israel.
Ever hear of the book THE ISRAEL LOBBY AND US FOREIGN POLICY? Ever hear of MOVE OVER AIPAC (2011) and OCCUPY AIPAC (2012) conferences and protest where hundreds of peaceniks including Jewish peace groups showed up? Check out http://youtube.com/user/carolmoore Two videos on Jews vs. AIPAC. (And still have to do my another AIPAC video.) Get hip, Americans have a right to criticize Israel and its Israel Lobby supports and thousands more do it every day.
Here’s some libertarian critics of Israel supporting Palestinian property rights, even including getting land back stolen by Israelis since 1948. So you calling Rothbard, Richman, Ebeling, Halbrook, Ahmad antisemites too?:
http://www.mises.org/journals/lar/pdfs/3_3/3_3_4.pdf
http://www.minaret.org/israeliaid.htm (on Minaret of Freedom)
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0305o.asp
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-159.html
http://mises.org/journals/jls/5_4/5_4_2.pdf
Carol, you have been writing anti Israel articles long before Iran was center stage. Again you are lying here in order to distract from the argument that you wan to either be:
a) anti Semitic or
b) intellectually lazy and not educate yourself on foreign national security affairs.
Based on the fact you just admitted that you single out Israel, it’s probably that you are anti Semitic. You just proved its not about non intervention at all …. Or you would be having a discussion and writing articles about real US intervention in foreign affairs.
Also, Aaron, how much of the below do you agree with from
http://carolmoore.net/libertarianparty/bootroot/
I hate to be too jaded, but history does suggest that if we join political parties we should see it as a mere expedient since once it becomes “popular” enough and is controlled by non-Jews, it will inevitably creep toward anti-semitism. Scott Shore, 2004 on JewishLibertariansYahoogroup
Sure there are anti-Semites in all parties, but I am absolutely convinced that we are significantly over-represented with them, compared with the other parties. Apart from this, I find the isolationist position of Libertarians to be unrealistic, impractical, and immoral. Sandor J. Woren, 2004, on JewishLibertariansYahoogroup
The California Libertarian Party Board of Directors has a large Plurality of pro-Israel Jews. The Board has a large majority of Pro-Israel Libertarians. Only a few vocal nuts have created the impression that Libertarians are anti-Israel. Bruce Cohen, 2004. I’ve worked long and hard within the Libertarian Party to defuse the small anti-semitic and anti-Israel factions there. Bruce Cohen, 2005, on JewishLibertariansYahoogroup
As long as Jewish names are headlining the Libertarian Ballots across the country, as long as this is remembered as a party inspired by and established by names like Mises, Friedman and Rothbard, you can rest assured that the LP is not only a Jewish friendly party, it’s practically a party by and for Jews. Adam Weinberg, 2004 on JewishLibertariansYahoogroup
As of Today, Judge Gray has come out of the closet. He’s advocating for the creation of a “Palestinian State”, which as we all know, would lead to the total destruction of the State of Israel. In my opinion, it would also lead to the massacre of millions of Jews. This is cloaked in a statement he’s asking people to sign. In it he `guarantees’ Israel’s right to exist in exchange for Israel giving up another half of it’s land. Bruce Cohen on the Judge Gray Senate campagin, October 2004.
And let’s not forget nonsense like this. If there were 6 South Korean loving supporters of South Korea on the National Committee and they were writing things like this about South Korea, we’d all be up in arms too. It is WHAT THE ISRAEL SUPPORTERS HERE DO that creates the problem.
http://carolmoore.net/libertarianparty/bootroot/fundraising.html
David F. Nolan
OK, as a long-time Libertarian who has run for Congress twice (and is running for US Senate this year) I have to say that the LP’s stance regarding Israel almost NEVER comes up as a reason for not supporting our party or its candidates. Maybe in NY City, but rarely elsewhere. Common objections I’ve heard raised include our (relatively) open-borders position, our opposition to government-run education, concern that poor people will starve w/o welfare, and occasionally our opposition to the War on Drugs. But Israel? Almost never. I have spoken before thousands of people and talked to hundreds one-on-one. Perhaps three people out of all those hundreds have ever even mentioned Israel.
June 11, (2010), 2:28 pm
Wayne Allyn Root
David…you’re small theoretical universe of hundreds of people …90% of whom includes Libertarians…is hardly a scientific model. How about FACTS? Do they matter to Libertarians? Here are real scientific numbers…in the 2004 Presidential election over 60% of all monies donated to the Democratic Party were donated by Jewish voters. And here’s the truly interesting and surprising number…over 40% of all the monies donated that same year to the GOP was from Jewish voters.
Add it up David…that means over 50% of all political donations in the United States comes from Jews. 50% of every dollar given to political candidates. So perhaps the fact that the few hundred people you’ve spoken to don’t mention Israel means absolutely nothing. The biggest donors in American politics…most of whom are either Jewish or Christian believe very strongly in America supporting Israel. I wonder…maybe…just maybe…if this one issue thats so important to pretty much every big contributor in all of American politics…might be THE disconnect that has resulted in 39 years of futility…and almost zero campaign contributions from big donors to the LP? Maybe theres a disconnect there as big as the Grand Canyon. Maybe.
June 12 (2010) 12:46 am
Wayne Allyn Root
Now let’s bring it home in a more personal and scientific way…while LP candidates can’t raise any serious money for races like Congress or Senate or Governor…while it’s hard to raise even $100 as a Libertarian candidate…I just raised $25,000 in 2 weeks for an intra-party race (Chair) that no one outside the LP cares about. And all of my donors wrote $1000, $2500 and $5000 checks. All were business owners…and every one of them considers Israel a very important issue. Understanding the power of my fundraising ability and my highly unusual success in getting donors to write big checks for the LP…perhaps Libertarians should step back…listen…and learn a valuable lesson. The LP has made a big mistake and miscalculation on this issue for 39 years. Is it the most important issue? Absolutely not. It’s not even in my Top 10. But it is a very important issue to the biggest donors in American politics. And it is certainly a DISASTER to say negative, vicious, derogatory things about our ally Israel.
June 12 (2010) Wayne Root 12:53 am
Wayne Allyn Root
Interestingly, I do not ask Libertarians to love Israel…or support Israel…I ask them to stop making outrageous statements that denigrate Israel for defending herself…and stop making supportive statements about terrorist organizations like Hamas …and stop showing propaganda videos on Libertarian’s Facebook page that are created by terrorists that paint Israel as the devil. If you ever want to win elections or raise money from mainstream patriotic Americans this has to stop. Public perception is 99% of politics…and Libertarians are painting a horrible public perception…and showing a terrible lack of judgment.
June 12 (2010) 12:58 AM
Wayne Allyn Root
Lastly David…I’m interested how much money you raise for your U.S. Senate run versus John McCain? My guess is the hundreds of people you meet at events in Arizona that share a lack of interest in Israel…will collectively donate about $2.50. Meanwhile John McCain and his Democratic opponent will each raise $1,000,000 at one single fundraiser dinner in Scottsdale from donors who all care VERY much about Israel. Perhaps the LP has lacked judgment on this issue for 39 years. Unfortunately thats not all the LP has lacked…we’ve lacked MONEY. No coincidence.
June 12 (2010) 1:01 AM
David F. Nolan
I do not recall making any statements about Israel that could even remotely be called “hateful.” I have, however, spoken out clearly against sending American troops or tax dollars to that country … or any other. That’s the Libertarian position.
June 12 (2010) 1:01 AM
No, they just target Israel.
Johnson has called for bringing home troops in all other areas, which is great.
I’m not affiliated with this group but would think they want to end ALL spending to other countries.
Maybe the reason why Israel gets singled out is because Johnson, the presumable presidential nominee supports a key military alliance with them, and WAR, a candidate for LNC and previous VP candidate does as well. And Israel is on the verge of being involved with a war with Iran. The U.S. intervention in this struggle could lead to World War 3.
Also, if you read any of Osama bin laden’s writings, the rational behind the 9/11 attacks, (and also the world trade center bombers back in the 1990’s) they hate us because of our meddling in other people’s affairs, and the support we have for certain countries such as israel and the middle east.
Carol Moore, do not insult my intelligence. If your real agenda was to discuss foreign involvement then you would write about real examples of foreign involvement. You have failed to do so. You only single out Israel by name.
This is not Aaron Bitterman. Why do you keep on bringing him up – just because my name is Aaron?
About South Korea… Carol, you would have to say something about South Korea first ahah. The point is that you don’t. You only attack the Jewish state.
But looking at all of your posts, when it comes to non involvement, it is a fact that you only mention Israel, and only Israel.
But let’s not stop there……..
Let’s add another example, much closer to home that actually does have a daily impact on your life. You would think that would warrant more attention than Israel right? But no mention of it either.
We train foreign military troops at Fort Benning, GA, at the School of the Americas. It’s all South American militaries. We do joint training and directly involve ourselves in South American military action. Also…. this involves no one from Israel at all, yet you never mention or protest against direct military involvement in South America at all?
Again, foreign intervention is in fact alot more extenive in South America, than our invovlement with Israel, and alot closer to home. It affects you directly. Yet not a peep from you… the ONLY words from you are about denigrating Israel.
Therefore – you are an anti-semitic racist. Done. There is no other conclusion.
Just to be clear, why Gary Johnson said about Israel and Iran war at town hall other night (accurately paraphrased) – after MANY libertarians had made this point he finally got it:
Question: What other countries do you see as key military allies?
Gov. Johnson: Who was it it who said no entangling…… Britain, France, I think, Israel is key ally. That doesn’t mean military. Doesn’t mean you have to follow them into a military conflict. This is the key to reducing miltary spending but need allies in case there is a military threat. Other countries have to take up the slack. This is in the context of my noninterventionist views – no military conflict. Talking about Iran. We have to talk to Israle and say “don’t bomb Iran.” It would be a two year bombing campaign. We would make a 100 million enemies. There’s not a military threat from Iran. We should be vigilant to what could be a military threat but if we bomb them they will go secret nuclear production and it will be worse.”
To continue, Aaron Biterman is moderator of JewishLibertarians, moderator of Libertarian Jews in Support of Israel on Facebook, got kicked off of facebook for taking over Ron Paul groups and complaining he was an antisemitic Jew hater there, loves Gary Johnson for saying Israel is our Ally (though other night he explicitly said the US should NOT follow Israel into war vs. Iran) but dare not show his face in the LP – after getting kicked out of the Republican Libertarian Caucus for trashing Ron Paul as an antisemite. You probably think Ron Paul is an antisemitic Jew hater too. Seek help. Chill. Meditate. The world is NOT out to get you. But it is pissed off at this constant Israel Lobby harassment. Just imagine if us feminists were that big of pains in the butt. (But don’t get me started on my favorite sex toy.)
Aaron Biterman is hardly a random person, Aaron Horvitz. Are you on the JewishLibertarians yahoo group? You should get on I’d like to read what you say “privately.” Anyway, one can criticize the fact that there are 30,000 troops in South Korean without people yelling ANTI-KOREAN BIGOT all over town and calling up your employer and getting you fired (especially if your job is in politics or media). Let’s face it, Aaron, you are a raving paranoid who freaks out when Americans criticize your obviously favorite nation state. See help.
Wow you randomly assume it’s another Aaron. This proves my point that you cant think for yourself at all! No this is Aaron Horvitz … And by absolutely no means .. An Israeli lobbyist. But I will tell you this.. We put thirty thousabd troops betwen North and South Korea, but you ONLY mention Israel. Never another nation when it comes to our involvement abroad. And your single minded focus makes it obvious why. The only interpretation of this is….You ARE anti Semitic. At least be honest with it and own it. When anyone from the two other major parties reads your crap, they see it written all over the place. And to try and insult everyone else’s intellIgene and deny that you are … is what makes everyone else angry as hell! And then you want to ask for America to vote for you after that? Get real!
http://carolmoore.net/libertarianparty/bootroot/fundraising.html
David F. Nolan
OK, as a long-time Libertarian who has run for Congress twice (and is running for US Senate this year) I have to say that the LP’s stance regarding Israel almost NEVER comes up as a reason for not supporting our party or its candidates. Maybe in NY City, but rarely elsewhere. Common objections I’ve heard raised include our (relatively) open-borders position, our opposition to government-run education, concern that poor people will starve w/o welfare, and occasionally our opposition to the War on Drugs. But Israel? Almost never. I have spoken before thousands of people and talked to hundreds one-on-one. Perhaps three people out of all those hundreds have ever even mentioned Israel.
June 11, (2010), 2:28 pm
Wayne Allyn Root
David…you’re small theoretical universe of hundreds of people …90% of whom includes Libertarians…is hardly a scientific model. How about FACTS? Do they matter to Libertarians? Here are real scientific numbers…in the 2004 Presidential election over 60% of all monies donated to the Democratic Party were donated by Jewish voters. And here’s the truly interesting and surprising number…over 40% of all the monies donated that same year to the GOP was from Jewish voters.
Add it up David…that means over 50% of all political donations in the United States comes from Jews. 50% of every dollar given to political candidates. So perhaps the fact that the few hundred people you’ve spoken to don’t mention Israel means absolutely nothing. The biggest donors in American politics…most of whom are either Jewish or Christian believe very strongly in America supporting Israel. I wonder…maybe…just maybe…if this one issue thats so important to pretty much every big contributor in all of American politics…might be THE disconnect that has resulted in 39 years of futility…and almost zero campaign contributions from big donors to the LP? Maybe theres a disconnect there as big as the Grand Canyon. Maybe.
June 12 (2010) 12:46 am
Wayne Allyn Root
Now let’s bring it home in a more personal and scientific way…while LP candidates can’t raise any serious money for races like Congress or Senate or Governor…while it’s hard to raise even $100 as a Libertarian candidate…I just raised $25,000 in 2 weeks for an intra-party race (Chair) that no one outside the LP cares about. And all of my donors wrote $1000, $2500 and $5000 checks. All were business owners…and every one of them considers Israel a very important issue. Understanding the power of my fundraising ability and my highly unusual success in getting donors to write big checks for the LP…perhaps Libertarians should step back…listen…and learn a valuable lesson. The LP has made a big mistake and miscalculation on this issue for 39 years. Is it the most important issue? Absolutely not. It’s not even in my Top 10. But it is a very important issue to the biggest donors in American politics. And it is certainly a DISASTER to say negative, vicious, derogatory things about our ally Israel.
June 12 (2010) Wayne Root 12:53 am
Wayne Allyn Root
Interestingly, I do not ask Libertarians to love Israel…or support Israel…I ask them to stop making outrageous statements that denigrate Israel for defending herself…and stop making supportive statements about terrorist organizations like Hamas …and stop showing propaganda videos on Libertarian’s Facebook page that are created by terrorists that paint Israel as the devil. If you ever want to win elections or raise money from mainstream patriotic Americans this has to stop. Public perception is 99% of politics…and Libertarians are painting a horrible public perception…and showing a terrible lack of judgment.
June 12 (2010) 12:58 AM
Wayne Allyn Root
Lastly David…I’m interested how much money you raise for your U.S. Senate run versus John McCain? My guess is the hundreds of people you meet at events in Arizona that share a lack of interest in Israel…will collectively donate about $2.50. Meanwhile John McCain and his Democratic opponent will each raise $1,000,000 at one single fundraiser dinner in Scottsdale from donors who all care VERY much about Israel. Perhaps the LP has lacked judgment on this issue for 39 years. Unfortunately thats not all the LP has lacked…we’ve lacked MONEY. No coincidence.
June 12 (2010) 1:01 AM
David F. Nolan
I do not recall making any statements about Israel that could even remotely be called “hateful.” I have, however, spoken out clearly against sending American troops or tax dollars to that country … or any other. That’s the Libertarian position.
June 12 (2010) 1:01 AM
Trashy Israel lobbyists always yell antisemites at people who love the American people more than their favorite group of foreigners. Get real.
Maybe “Aaron” (as in Aaron “Ron Paul hates Jews” Biterman??) hasn’t noticed that Americans CAN criticize Iraqis and Saudis and all other recipients of US aid WITHOUT being called bigots. Calling us bigots is what gets us PISSED OFF. We have a right to criticize foreign nations and their supporters in this country, especially if they distort our political processes, as the Israel lobby does to our national government, the Demopublicans and has been trying to do for years to the LP. Thank you Wayne Root for making it SO obvious that only a fool would miss the point.
You must have forgotten to mention the huge subsidies we give to Iraq and our involvement there, or the fact we prop up the Saudi Royal Family, or the fact that we have a written treaty to defend Australia, called the ANSUS treaty. Why just mention Israel, and only Israel in all of your correspondence? It’s because you are all anti-Jewish. It’s obvious you are a bunch of racists and that is why you do not have a prayer of getting elected among a racially diverse electorate. I think the Ron Paul newsletters were just the tip of the ice burg. This bunch should be put up in a loony bin. I can’t believe you would consider asking America to give you their vote? What a complete joke you all are! Instead of being a bunch of mentally lazy nuts, why not actually put in a little bit of effort to learn just a little world history and how basic politics work. Then you might have a bare chance in hell.
Trashy anti-Semites.
Yes, I should have called them “candidate for nomination” but was trying to save space and squeeze stuff in. My bad. Well, why not have TWO Presidential candidates. ha haha http://libertarians4peace.net/PressRelease5-01-12 has a printable PDF of leaflet which I think I’m going to correct posthaste.
And check out http://carolmoore.net/libertarianparty/bootroot for all the wicked and/or silly things he’s done in LP over last 4 years.
Go Libertarians 4 Peace! They are 100% right. The Zionists and warmonger infiltrators in the LP must be purged. And someone like Lee Wrights should win the presidential nod as opposed to Gov. Johnson, who foreign policy is far from being truly non interventionist.