http://youtu.be/DjsqzXz3Ztc
Adam Kokesh: Rooting out WAR
By Jill Pyeatt on August 31, 2012 10:30 PM
Jill Pyeatt
Jill Pyeatt is a small-business owner and jewelry designer from Southern California. She currently serves on the Judicial Committee of the Libertarian Party of CA. She can be found on Facebook and Twitter.
Comments removed from this thread; see archive.org to find them.
Roger @ 62.
Your understanding is spot-on. In fact, Adam has been a fellow traveller with us in the liberty movement longer than since the Denver convention in 2008.
In 2006, he and three other members of Iraq Veterans Against the War addressed the Manhattan LP. It was one of the most heart-breaking evenings we’ve had.
Adam is a terrific spokesman against the evils of the State. I wish him much success!
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
RC@84,
“My guess is that I will die a citizen of a State.”
Hey, if that’s what you want to do, enjoy.
83 tk, a “threat” is not the “thing” or “no-thing.”
But everyone’s entitled to their opinion. My guess is that I will die a citizen of a State.
RC@77,
“Without non-interference by a state, the notion of statelessness is meaningless.”
The state disagrees with you. Since the 1990s, 4GW analysts have become increasingly concerned with the adaptability/flexibility of non-state governance networks (the main example offered is usually al Qaeda), claiming that they represent a threat to the continuation of the state per se.
I agree with those analysts. The Westphalian nation-state’s run of not quite 400 years is drawing to an end.
rc
Either way – still smiling….
79 sc, yes, I see your point, but it doesn’t work for me. The LP’s “fiscal conservatism” is moonshine compared with the GOP’s wine cooler, so the metaphor is mixed up.
Yes, though, fiscal conservatism and some civil liberties is in a sense a dilution. But the LP’s fiscal views are SO much more “pure” that GOP-Lite is not useful.
78 p, please note I should have put quotes around “radical.” Or perhaps used a word like “extreme” or “unrealistic.”
As you know, “I don’t know” is the most radical position. š
Robert @68 – I believe “GOP lite” refers to those proposals, agendas, and so on that would tend to position the LP as follows vis-a-vis the GOP:
Republican Party – Full-on conservative messaging and rhetoric
Libertarian Party – A more diluted blend of messaging and rhetoric for those who like a bit of personal freedom with their conservatism
Since the Libertarian Party is already unbalanced in that our messaging generally appeals more to the right than to the left, I think the “GOP lite” term is perfectly appropriate to use in discrediting proposals, agendas, and so on that would take us even further in a conservative direction.
š
Changed to plumbline, from my recollection. Sorry, no link or time to look for one.
75 tk, again, in YOUR Matrix pod there’s a difference. For me, if China runs roughshod over residents of the territory known as Tibet, those people are subject to the Chinese state as much or more than people living in and conventionally subject to the government of China. Without non-interference by a state, the notion of statelessness is meaningless. Mountain peoples in Asia may live largely ungoverned, just as there may be hermits in N. America who have almost no interaction with The Man.
Matt @ 73… I was just trying to be nice to Bob Capozzi with my AAA analogy! I like yours better.
RC @ 74,
There’s a big difference between a state being hurtful and a state effectively ruling.
There are in fact vast tracts of Earth which are not effectively ruled by states.
Back in my Marine Corps counter-narcotics operations days, I came across one in northern California.
The local police wanted us to run a patrol through that area, because it had been years since they’d been able to send officers in without then getting shot or having dogs turned loose on them.
We ended up not running that patrol because our ROE required us to have two medevac choppers on standby and we could only get one.
69 tk, “Zomia” includes Tibet, most of Afghanistan, and the border areas of Pakistan. In your mind, these are “unruled by states.” In my mind, these are places where the State is at its most hurtful.
This illustrates the beautiful contrast of the Matrix’s programming. Two people can look at the same (apparent) thing and reach completely different conclusions.
NF – In baseball terms, I’d call the LP high-A. The CP is more like instructional league.
AAA teams often have a good percentage of guys who’ve played in the bigs. Maybe you could make an argument that LP is AA, as we do occasionally see an ex big leaguer come through š
@ 70: some of Rootās āfriendsā or āsupportersā will be there leading the charge to throw his ass out of any position of authority in the LP.
Yet some have said that the LNCC is an entity unto itself, answerable to no one.
It can pick its own members and leaders, without any input from LP members or delegates.
If so, the LNC should disaffiliate the LNCC from the LP, and file the necessary papers with the FEC.
“And, really, NF, canāt we agree to lose the canard of āGOP-Liteā? I mean, in what what is the LP in any way āLiteā? ”
Well then, how about the AAA affiliate of the GOP? (I would guess the CP would be the AA affiliate!)
From Root’s article Jill Linked to…this says it all,”Mitt out Obama-ed Obama!” yup…they are two of a kind. Thanks Root, your quote is perfect. If Root gets the nomination for the LP, I think I will stump for a republican…or democrat. I think Columbus is going to see a huge anti-Root backlash…and some of Root’s “friends” or “supporters” will be there leading the charge to throw his ass out of any position of authority in the LP.
RC@66,
“Zomia, the Arctic, the Moonā¦yes, all excellent ex. of statelessness at play.”
Population of the moon: 0
Population of the Arctic: About 4 million, most of it effectively ruled by states.
Population of Zomia: Approximately 100 million, not effectively ruled by states.
more…
And, really, NF, can’t we agree to lose the canard of “GOP-Lite”? I mean, in what what is the LP in any way “Lite”?
If anything, it’d be GOP-Stout, since the LP’s center of gravity is MUCH further from the mainstream than the GOP is. Of course, on other issues, the LP is in a completely different direction, rhetorically and substantively, from the GOP. The LP tends to be be pro-choice, pro-same-gender “marriage,” and for cuts in military spending, not increases as the GOP is.
Why keep playing such a silly game?
57 nf: And what, Capozzi? Becoming GOP-lite? That is an improvement?
me: Missed this…no, not GOP-lite, unless that’s the label you wish to use. It’s a free country! š
I would say GJ is an excellent model for where the LP should be. He’s a bit too radical on some issues, but he’s in the ballpark in the broad strokes…fiscal conservative, social liberal, reasonable in tone. I like that he occasionally takes clearly non-plumbline positions, ones where I disagree with him. (Like his view on some of Bloomberg’s food regs.) Makes him, I dunno, human.
64 tk, it should be plain that I said something about Somalia. Pay attention!
Zomia, the Arctic, the Moon…yes, all excellent ex. of statelessness at play.
Well, for what itās worth, Kevin, I have never been aware of a link between Root and your state. I guess I missed it.
Root-Rutherford, with Ohio and the rest of region 3 behind them. But maybe Root will not be on that team in 2014.
RC@63,
Who said anything about Somalia? I was thinking of (among others) Zomia.
61 tk, yes, fixed in your mind, since there is – for all practical purposes – no such thing as “objective reality.” In MY mind, I was being kind, since Somalia was an epic fail in the practice of statelessness.
I guess I should grant that a few penguins seem to be making a go of it in the Arctic! š
Re: #45 (“Is Kokesh even a lp member? Thought he was a repub”).
I remember Kokesh set up a booth at one of the LP conventions, maybe Denver, maybe St. Louis. As I recall he was promoting a documentary film production, maybe raising funds. I spoke to him several times. My understanding then was that he was a sold LP guy.
RC@55,
“More importantly, the practice of statelessness has been and remains untested in the modern era in my imagination.”
There, fixed that for ya.
58 tb, at any moment, government IS “limited,” so long as it’s not 100%. The point of advocating limited government is really to advocate less of it. That would include the advocacy of abolishing ONE government-enabled institution- slavery.
Politics is a process, until the Holodeck is invented, that is.
“Trent @ 52ā¦ as is your perfect right. I like what Ron Paul stands for but he has failed totally as a candidate for president three times now. He wasnāt even placed in nomination. If that is how you measure success then so be it.”
I don’t measure success, at least, Ron Paul’s solely by whether he won. Take a look at his vote totals in the three elections. They jump us, massively, each time. Each time the percentage of liberty voters expands. I suspect the LP is going to benefit from this bump in 2012, too.
Paul had a lot of money, but at a certain point there IS a ceiling. He didn’t waste the money, I saw how it was spent in Iowa, NH, and here in Louisiana and in all cases, the money was spent very wisely.
More importantly, the practice of statelessness has been and remains untested in the modern era.
RC, the practice of limited government has been and remains untested in the modern era. So, forget about it already.
The practice of peace has been and remains untested in the modern era. Let the fucking bombs fly, then.
The practice of free markets has been and remains untested in the modern era. So, let us all become rent-seeking political parasites and suck the economy dry. Oh, wait, maybe we already did that.
I wonder where we would be if it had been said almost 200 years ago that the practice of freeing slaves has been and remains untested in the modern era.
And what, Capozzi? Becoming GOP-lite? That is an improvement?
More…
I do agree that Ls are in retreat, in a sense. The movement is coming to its senses, shedding the absolutist extremism that predictably failed in the 70s and 80s.
50 tb, anarchists coming out of the closet seems way to imprecise to me and probably inconsequential, regardless. If the ranks of statelessness advocates has swelled from 30k to 40k, that’s a big percentage move but tiny on an absolute basis.
More importantly, the practice of statelessness has been and remains untested in the modern era.
Trent @ 52… as is your perfect right. I like what Ron Paul stands for but he has failed totally as a candidate for president three times now. He wasn’t even placed in nomination. If that is how you measure success then so be it.
I think Kokesh might have thought Mr. Benton raking in over a half million for the work he did on the Paul campaign was a bit too much.
But, hey, politicians and those who service them are like that. I think the experience has radicalized Kokesh and made him a bit wiser. Maybe he’ll become an actual minarchist or, gasp, an anarchist.
“That is an understatement. As I have said beforeā¦ never in the field of political activity have so many paid so much for so little.”
I disagree entirely. Remember that libertarianism is a hard sell and this was a traditional campaign–TV ads, mailers, boots on the ground, etc. It was actually quite effective.
43 teeth, no, I don’t know any such things. I am pretty sure that many on the LNC did NOT support Barr in 08 prior to convention. And, many on LNC would not have supported Root in 2012 if he had stood for nomination.
I don’t foster second-order conspiracy theories as you apparently do.
Capozzi has to ask:
me: Begging the question ā is anarchy or anarchism working out well? Evidence would be nice if it is.
Yes! Anarchists are coming out of the closet all over the place and more people than ever are willing to proclaim the government is useless.
On the other hand, many libertarians seem to be in retreat, failing to discuss important issues for fear that their conservative kissing cousins will reject them. It’s becoming increasingly harder to find even any real minarchists in the LP.
Simply proposing to roll back government to 2004 levels ain’t exactly advocating limited government, after all. Hell, the concept of limited government began to fade away before the ink was dry on the constitution produced by the founding elitist establishment.
Now, I may be totally wrong. Let’s wait until election day and see how things work out for those “libertarians” clinging to electoral politics.
I donāt think the word āpurgeā generally works with respect to the LP. Those anarchists who have been exiting the LP have done so voluntarily, not under compulsion.
I agree. That is why I wrote “effectively purged”, meaning not that the right-wingers did an effective job of purging anarchists, but rather anarchists left on their own which had the same effect as an actual purge.
“A lot of people are disappointed with how the Paul campaign was run.”
That is an understatement. As I have said before… never in the field of political activity have so many paid so much for so little.
@41
Don’t get me wrong. I’m an avid Paul supporter too. I first saw Kokesh as the DC march in 2008, he was one of the speakers there and I started to follow him. He held up a sign at the 2008 convention about McCain not standing up for veterans. He also ran for Congress in New Mexico but lost in the primary. Then he got a radio show, followed by a TV show on RT. I don’t watch him avidly but I am subscribed to his youtube channel. He is borderline anarchist, and seems to be a fan of Stefan Molenuex but still believes in voting and supporting liberty candidates like Ron Paul. I actually never heard him say to ask for a refund from Paul, but it wouldn’t surprise me. a lot of people are disappointed with how the Paul campaign was run.
@45, I don’t think so. He ran as a Republican in New Mexico. I’m a policy before party type so it does not matter to me in the least. If he decides to join the official LP ranks, I say “bravo” and “welcome”.
Is Kokesh even a lp member? Thought he was a repub….gonna change it from the inside type guy.
@36: Benton didn’t make one mistake–he was actively undermining Paul’s campaign both in 2008 and 2012, and our warnings went unheeded.
Capozzi: The LNC did ābadā by supporting its nominees? Really?
Please stop lying.
I never said the LNC did bad in supporting the LP’s nominees.
Did I use the word “nominees”? You know I did not.
The controversy (which you should recall) was that the LNC supported Barr before he was a nominee in 2008. And supported Root before he was a nominee (but still a prospective 2012 candidate) by setting the convention in Las Vegas.
The LNC did “bad” by supporting its nominees? Really?
Sounds supremely top-down and arrogant to me, and likely most.
@ 36 Paul supporters are very weird,
Not so much “weird” as varied. We who support Paul do so for different reasons, and based on different sets of principles.
I like Paul. I’ve never heard of Kokesh, but I like this video. Now, if Kokesh were to attack Paul, I would likely disagree with him about Paul, but I may or may not still like Kokesh overall.
I like George Phillies. I think he’s a positive influence in the LP. But I disagree with his take on Paul. I think the LNC did good in trying to recruit Paul to run on the LP. I think the LNC did bad in giving any support to Barr or Root.
Other of my fellow Paul supporters may disagree with me on some of those points.
29 tb: It may even radicalize some of the actual minarchists and lead them to the belief that limited government is a mythical fantasy. They might conclude that wearing the flag, waving the constitution, proclaiming oneās patriotism, and ranting about restoring the nation isnāt working out so well.
me: Begging the question – is anarchy or anarchism working out well? Evidence would be nice if it is.
In truth, my lessarchism isn’t working in terms of outcomes, either. But it remains a serviceable concept for me.
Oh, wow, Trent, I’ve completely missed that. I haven’t haven’t following Adam that much. I found this video interesting, but otherwise I’m not terribly familiar with him (obviously).
“Trent, I heard that about Adam, also, but apparently he really didnāt ask people to shoot Romney. I never did see the video, though.”
That actually isn’t what I’m talking about. His call to have many supporters ask for refunds from the campaign and his stupid comments re: Ron Paul.
I notice that Scott Lieberman stopped in and commented on another thread, but chose not to comment here or on the other Root/Romney thread. I would really like to hear from Wayne or one of his followers as to why he’s doing this, and if they think it’s okay.
Trent, your right, there are many Ron Paul supporters who no longer like Kokesh. But Paul supporters are very weird, they will cast out anybody who makes a single mistake. Look at Peter Schiff, Jesse Benton, Rand Paul, hell even Justin Amash. It’s a shame how they attack fellow liberty activists.
Regardless, Kokesh has a fan base all on his own now, and I think he is awesome.
On another note, I would rather have a libertarian Republican like Justin Amash, John Dennis, or Adam Kokesh instead of a conservative Libertarian like Bob Barr or Wayne Root. But that’s just me. Principle is more important than party. Gary Johnson was always a libertarian Republican. Now he is a libertarian Libertarian, so its all good for me! š
Trent, I heard that about Adam, also, but apparently he really didn’t ask people to shoot Romney. I never did see the video, though.
TB@29,
I don’t think the word “purge” generally works with respect to the LP. Those anarchists who have been exiting the LP have done so voluntarily, not under compulsion.
The only exception which comes readily to mind with respect to purges is Gene Cisewski circa the late 1990s. He was forced through (likely fraudulent and malicious) litigation to withdraw from LP politics.
Kokesh has really kind of destroyed his reputation in the Ron Paul movement lately.
@30
Sounds fine with me. As I mentioned at
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/07/wayne-allyn-root-on-fox-economics-101/
“I am not a reflexive supporter of Wayne Allyn Root. I think Root deserves to be fairly described. I wish Root to have no better reputation and no worse reputation than one he has earned through his words and deeds.
Signed,
Thane Eichenauer
glorified commenter”
As for Mr. Root being a Libertarian Party leader, I imagine 99% of Libertarians are perfectly capable of marching to the beat of their own drum most days. There are so many LP leaders out there other than Root. Take your pick.
Wow, the GOP-LP in the last 5 years have given us Bob Barr who just this year endorsed Newt Gingrinch for president and now Root stumping / giving free advice for Romney/Ryan and Johnson was a Republican less than a year ago. Ideological adultery is alive and well in the LP.
Thane @ # 28. The issue for many folks is that Mr. Root sits on the Libertarian National Committee. You can’t have it both ways. The troops need leadership that is 100% onboard, on the team, and driven to get the LP message out and win elections.
Yes, I did say this.
The fantastically wonderful and dynamic Wayne Allyn Root is merely trying to attract Romney-Libertarians into the big tent of the LP.
It seems as though many are just jealous of the remarkable success Root has had with remaking the LP into a marketable brand among Disgruntled Republicans. That the LP has nominated its last two presidential candidates straight out of the GOP is an indication of how successful the mainstreaming of the LP has been.
This has served to effectively purge the anarchists out of the LP and it probably won’t be too long before even minarchists (as opposed to little-bit-lessarchists) will give up on the LP.
It may even radicalize some of the actual minarchists and lead them to the belief that limited government is a mythical fantasy. They might conclude that wearing the flag, waving the constitution, proclaiming one’s patriotism, and ranting about restoring the nation isn’t working out so well.
For those earning a meager living from the libertarian movement, the crumbs may be drying up as people truly interested in freedom figure out that party politics is not the answer. It won’t be too much longer before there just won’t be any libertarians left in the LP, just a few yahoos looking to make some spare change and a few knuckleheads typing in caps about taking the republic back through tax cuts.
RTAA@20,
“Root was never a libertarian.” (and so on)
Mr. Root had some questionable positions (as a Republican) during and prior to 2007. I don’t think his past positions should be held against him relative to his period as a Libertarian.
If he has (and let me just grant for the sake of argument here) promoted Mitt Romney when he shouldn’t let his current actions speak for themselves. There are plenty of current Libertarians who were previously Republicans and have improved their positions, I would include Root among them.
I would just as well have people complain about Root’s actions while a Libertarian – it seems more relevant to me then bringing in what Root used to advocate.
@18 Of course. There are petition drives to get Ron Paul to run as an independent or Libertarian. The only problem is that we already have a LP ticket and it cannot be changed. But yes, I think it would be awesome if a number of sitting and former politicians became members of the LP and helped it grow, so long as they remain consistent with the LP platform and didn’t use it like WAR.
My grammar is horrible after two beers.
LOL
Nobody does mess with the LP of Ohio. The GOP just tried to remove GJ off the Ohio ballot. We didn’t react too well to it.
Well, for what it’s worth, Kevin, I have never been aware of a link between Root and your state. I guess I missed it.
I would say a lot of people are very mis-informed about the LP of Ohio. wow.
So what is the problem with success and growth in a state party like Ohio. It appears they just stood up to the GOP in Ohio . They are not best friends.
so what makes you think that WAR and Ohio are linked any longer. Ohio has moved on from what I hear.
And at the bottom of Root’s Romeny lovefest article are Root’s Libertarian Party credentials.
Which is why Fox News runs Root’s pieces.
Root carries the LP Brand — and Fox uses Root to stamp the LP Brand upon Romney.
And Root is only too happy to sell his LP Brand to Fox/Romney/GOP in exchange for personal promotion and a (hoped-for) seat at the conservative media stars’ table.
Root was never a libertarian. As late as 2006 he was promoting McCain/Lieberman for president, war in Iraq, and “marriage is between a man and a woman” — all of it less than a year before he began running for the LP’s presidential nomination in 2007.
@18,
Would you say the same thing about Ron Paul?
I like Adam Kokesh. He is a fantastic spokesman for the liberty movement. If he were to run for Congress again as a Libertarian, that would be more beneficial than him running as a Republican again.
okey dokes – I just read the article Jill linked to in post #9 – and it’s absolutely one of the most heinous pieces of empty Republican talking points and utterly ridiculous pronouncements of just how amazing Romney is – and then I look at the masthead and it says “By Wayne Allyn Root”. That guy has absolutely no place on the LNC or LNCC – honestly – he really needs to get the boot! asap!
@15 Possibly but Vegas was his home and he was nearly sent packing and his other Nevada minions were voted against as was the Ohio crew. We were told “no one messes with Ohio”. So much for that. We’ll stand up to the cabal in Columbus too. Though, it will probably be harder to get the rank-and-file out for a non-presidential convention. I am hoping to be there.
At the LP Convention in ā14, I think heāll get the boot unless he bows out before then.
@14 Don’t bet on it.
We have a lot of work to do to outmaneuver his allies on convention attendance and floor organization, it’s on their home turf and they are usually better at it.
Root’s time is nearing an end. At the LP Convention in ’14, I think he’ll get the boot unless he bows out before then. He endorses Romney over and over and over and never mentions Gary Johnson. The irony, of course, is that an endorsement from Johnson kept his spot on the LNC alive (with that he still barely made it). The time has come for all state LP parties to demand his resignation or removal from the LNC. What good is his money when he uses all of his press time to endorse Romney?
@11,12 The LP Bylaws require that only eligible candidates may be nominees.
True, but many people feel it makes them look less serious when they basically rue out even the slightest possibility of winning at the outset by running an ineligible candidate.
You don’t have to be 35 to run for president. You only have to be 35 to serve as president.
Third parties have run Constitutionally ineligible people for president, even getting their names onto the ballot.
I think one of the socialist parties ran an under-35 candidate in the 1970s. It was a woman, I think.
DWP @ 8: I know. The whole thing was ridiculous.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/31/gold-medal-for-romney-in-tampa/
Kokesh misses the age dealine by roughly 2 weeks, he could run in 2020 if he wished to do so.
PS
That wasn’t really dancing
I sure wish Wayne would try to explain himself about this. I can’t imagine what he can possibly say. I also wonder how Gary is handling Root’s duplicity.
Wow, he’s that young (she says, feeling suddenly quite old.) I like Adam, but hasn’t he had some legal trouble, like dancing at the Lincoln monument in DC?
Kokesh won’t be eligible in 2016 either.
Wow, what a coincidence. I just discovered this video on YouTube and I was just about to post this here.
I know that somebody in the LP of California asked Adam Kokesh to run for the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination this year, but Adam declined running because he’s not old enough to run for President.
How about Adam Kokesh for President in 2016?
I googled it and you’re right, Matt. I’ll fix it now.
Well, that’s what I put first, but his Facebook page was spelled this way. Maybe it isn’t really his FB page?
I believe his name is spelled Kokesh.