The Libertarian National Convention will officially convene in Washington, D.C., beginning on Friday, May 24, and continue until Sunday, May 26. Delegates have already started arriving in D.C. for credentialing and participating in various breakout sessions. The convention will feature several high-profile speakers, party leadership elections, and the selection of the 2024 presidential ticket.
Independent Political Report editorial team member Dr. Joseph Buchman will attend the full convention, intermittently covering events and activities. He plans to publish occasional articles, conduct interviews, and share information on other significant moments.
NSSN News host and Independent Political Report contributor Nathan S. will attend the second and third days, live-streaming various activities and speeches. He will also stream the speech of Republican former President Donald Trump, who is expected to address convention delegates on Saturday night. Video feeds will be updated at the end of each day or event as necessary.
Readers in attendance are invited to share their own experiences and information in the comments below. Independent Political Report is supported by the Outsider Media Foundation, a nonpartisan 501(c)(3) nonprofit that seeks to expand public awareness and understanding of American third parties and independent candidates. We kindly ask that readers adhere to our discussion and civility policies, understanding that the editorial team reserves the right to remove irrelevant or spam content at their discretion.
A copy of the Libertarian National Convention agenda and scheduled video feed from Nathan is available below. Images will open in a larger size in a new tab. Readers interested in a list of speakers can view an interactive version here. Additionally, a map of anticipated 2024 state delegation numbers based on data published on LPedia can also be found below.
NSSN Convention Speech Live-stream (Days 2 and 3)
Official Libertarian Party Convention Live-stream
2024 Convention Schedule (Speaker names not listed)
Map of State Delegation Numbers
At-Large Representative Candidate Names
I’m aware of the other examples. The reason I mentioned the Working families party in particular is that it’s the only one if them that I know of that is in more than one state and (I think) still from time to time adding states. There are any number of plausible party strategies that don’t revolve around recycling a 0.3-3% presidential ticket every 4 years. I’m not saying whether it would be better or worse.
Are you really a party’s nominee if the party’s chair and national committee and state parties are saying vote for someone else?
What they get done is exert influence on Democrats by either endorsing or not endorsing individual candidates.
New York’s Conservative Party has exerted influence on the Republican Party in similar fashion. The CP (last I checked) holds its convention before the GOP convention. Who the CP endorses influences who the GOP later endorses, especially in close races.
This is because someone running on both CP and GOP tickets against a Democrat has a stronger chance of winning than a Republican running against a Democrat and a Conservative who’ll siphon off, rather than add, votes to the GOP.
What they get done is exert influence on Democrats by either endorsing or not endorsing individual candidates. Politicians, lobbyists, journalists, and people who pay a lot of attention to legislation and local politics in the states where they’ve been for a while tell me they have a fairly large policy impact, but maybe they’re wrong and you’re right. I’m not from any of those states and don’t know whether you are.
The Working Families party doesn’t exist without the Democratic party. Most of what it does is endorse Democrats. The only places I’ve seen it get its own candidates elected is in extremely far left localities which have guaranteed minority representation. In those places they can replace the Republicans as the smaller major party, but always behind the Democrats. As far as I can tell, they get nothing done which Democrats aren’t already willing to do.
Minuses exist. Some people have only so much time or money to give to l.p. candidates, for example. There are also other organizational models the LP could follow to try to have a policy impact, for example that of the Working Families party, which now exists in several states, and arguably has more real world political impact than the LP despite not having its own presidential candidates. Pluses do also exist, as you noted.
Judging by ballot results at the convention and blog comments I’ve seen various places, the libertarians don’t seem very united behind their pick. They got a lot of media for booing Trump , but not much that I’ve seen for nominating Oliver. The one mention aside from things like Reason I’ve seen so far is Sarwark on Morning Joe this morning for the second time in under a week. On the return trip, he got to plug Oliver.
The presidential ticket has, by far, been the largest driver of growth in the Libertarian Party. Nothing else comes remotely close except for Ron Paul’s Republican presidential campaign. The “minuses” to having a presidential ticket aren’t that we end up spending a lot of money on ballot access that could otherwise go to down ticket campaigns. Without a presidential ticket that money doesn’t come in.
I’m suggesting the ballot access consequences are less severe than Ryan claims, and trying to get additional clarity. There are pluses and minuses to having a presidential ticket, before you even get to who’s on it.
If voting NOTA is, as you suggest, so evil, then it shouldn’t be an option.
Yet NOTA has long been a Libertarian tradition. Every Libertarian I ever heard mention it sounded pretty proud of it. They seemed to believe that the NOTA option was one of those Principles that made the LP the Party of Principle.
Only slightly exaggerated:
https://babylonbee.com/news/libertarian-party-nominates-giant-gay-bong
Oklahoma, not Arkansas.
It doesn’t seem they were honest about wanting to move things along. But I could be wrong, maybe they are just that bad at it. They didn’t have AV yesterday and adjourned sine die Sunday, or 1 a.m. Monday if you insist. There was an lnc meeting and reception of some sort on the schedule Monday (there was no presidential banquet), but I didn’t find a broadcast.
In addition to credentials and Trump wasting gobs of time:
Every vote was standing (although few were standing count) – the few times they even attempted voice votes, they ended up standing afterwards anyway.
they had debates and speeches during business, instead of in the evenings and during lunches as in the past
They stopped and did nothing during balloting, instead of transacting other business like they used to
All that added up to a 16 hour final day, no platform or bylaws, and no presidential banquet. But, they did get everything else done, and they did make a lot of money on the Trump speech and the debate spot auction.
How many states ballot access would they have lost if they nominated nota? Which states? According to discussion – I think below, but I don’t want to read it all again, and it may have been elsewhere – only two states. Anyone know for sure?
As far as the time management being poor and this was a Mises own goal due to dragging out credentials after they had lost and then Secret Service effectively shutting down the Convention for Trump, there’s a litany of platform and bylaw changes Mises wanted to do that we simply never got to, right? I’m unaware of any business being conducted on Monday from everything I’ve read.
Time management even by Libertarian National Convention standards was horrid. Considering Mises in their strategy document were trying to ram things through as fast as possible, this is a spectacular own goal by them. They first spent a couple hours after it was already decided trying to undo seating the Michigan, Washington, and Arkansas delegations. Then they lost several hours from the Secret Service shutting the hotel down to allow Trunp to speak.
Happy for Oliver to get the nod. Rectenwald was already a terrible candidate. You’re running for President dude, fucking act like it. How did Mises end up with him as Plan B?
The 2 national officers I wanted gone still won, but at least there’s a couple checks there now in Rutherford and Redpath.
And the 300 people that publicly voted NOTA at the end should have their names written down and even 10 years from now when this caucus faction warfare is long forgotten held against them in everything they do inside the party. “I’d rather wreck the party’s ballot access irreparably instead of have a nominee not my caucus.” If there were Republican operatives intentionally sabotaging the party from the inside, that is what they would be in favor of, correct?
* Only two VPs that had relevance in the LP. I didn’t mean that for all minor parties.
I believe Chase Oliver is the first LP nominee who was formerly a Democrat. As far as I can tell, every other nominee in the party’s history has either been a former Republican or had never previously been affiliated with a party. Was that Trump’s influence?
The purpose of a VP for the major parties is either to try to pick up a state that is otherwise in doubt, or to try to turn out the vote for a group of voters. Cheney lent “gravitas” to a less serious Bush, pro-gun groups disliked Romney, but liked Paul Ryan, etc.
The VP slot for minor parties is usually pretty irrelevant. The only two that had relevance were Toni Nathan (post-campaign, because she wound up being the first woman to receive an electoral college vote), and Bill Weld, who helped Johnson pick up voters, attract media attention, and bring in donations that Johnson otherwise would not have.
Nuna, you misunderstand what a VP pick is for. Very rarely in history has a VP pick been on the basis of policy sympatico. Most of the time it’s been for geographic balance, or in this case, to align two groups of supporters in order to get over the finish line. You think JFK and LBJ agreed on much? Reagan and Bush Sr.? Nope.
I for one think Chase is a brilliant choice on the LP’s part. Decades younger than the doddering ancients put forth by the legacy duopoly, Chase would wipe the floor with them on a debate stage. And, as an out gay man, he’s the perfect choice with the Handmaid’s Tale being played out right now by the right-wing, legislating against any sort of person that doesn’t want to reproduce on behalf of the Reich. Heck, has a single person who ever protested Drag Queen Story Time ever read a book to a group of kids? I bet not.
The LP needs this. Now. Seeing the dog-whistle anti-gay slur “libertine” below reminded me that I’ve lived in two states where the local LPs refused to table at Pride events because there were (gasp) *Homosexuals* in attendance. Well, that’s how Chase found the LP back in 2010; living proof it works. I for one am seriously thinking about jumping into the fray (I resigned my national membership when the Mises coup happened) to give my 100% support for Chase.
No video at the national committee meeting that’s scheduled to be happening now, I take it? Or maybe it got rescheduled due to how late they ran yesterday?
Who are new regional representatives?
Has that been posted?
Nah, Reality and Rick have it right. Not that any of the nominated candidates was worth even a fraction of a damn.
Michael Rectenwald squandered the most covered and therefore coveted speaking time with his substance abuse.
But Mike ter Maat choosing to be Chase Oliver’s VP pick rather than Rectenwald’s VP pick at the eleventh hour was an absolutely brilliant bit of treacherous conspiracy and scheming backstabbery. Of course, it also doomed their ticket and perhaps the entire party, but hey, that was likely the goal.
Oliver and ter Maat have little in common and are opposed on most topics – much more so than Rectenwald and ter Maat – suggesting that ter Maat never actually meant anything he said. But if he’s gonna be an unprincipled career politician, then at least he has demonstrated that he is really slippery by managing to go from not even qualifying for the debate all the way to being the kingmaker of the convention. What a snake! I guess he really was the front-runner after all, just not in the way most anyone else would have understood it.
Good talk from Ron Paul, as expected. I’m afraid I missed the talk by Dr Peter McCullough, so I hope someone will upload a recording of it. Less expected was Spike Cohen’s good albeit very short talk/comments.
The convention chose the worst of the candidates. Not voting LP for president.
I don’t think Chase Oliver is sincere at all.
Typical libertarian argument. “You’re not libertarian.” “No, you’re not libertarian.” “UH UH” “UH HUH”.
Nah, Observer had it right.
* libertine candidate for 6 months and libertarian LNC for two years.
It appears that no faction has complete control of the Libertarian Party. Expect new factions and caucuses to form and dissolve, and state parties to swing from one direction to another, over the next few years.
Despite all the doom and gloom from the anti-Mises faction, it seems they came pretty close to unseating the Mises faction this year.
As I said over a year ago, the pendulum always swings. No faction remains in power forever. Taking back the party is the best strategy, rather than forming a new libertarian party.
Eventually, a new faction will take power. And then another faction after that. And so on. Such is politics.
Upshot is that the LP will have a libertarian presidential candidate for the next six months and an alt-right national committee for the next two years.
Adjourned after 16 hour marathon session. No platform or bylaws, but all other business handled. Most of the LNC is MiCucks, but presidential ticket, vice chair and treasurer aren’t. There was no banquet. Lnc meets in the morning.
LNC delegates have selected Mike ter Maat as the vice-presidential nominee of the Libertarian Party on the second round. The official Libertarian Party ticket will be Chase Oliver and Mike ter Maat.
Mike ter Maat: 371 votes – 51.31%
Clint Russell: 340 votes – 47.03%
NOTA: 8 votes – 1.11%
Other: 4 votes – .56%
TerMaat elected round 2 with 51%
LNC2024 Vice Presidential Nomination Results (Round 1):
Freddie Clegg: 9 votes – 1.22%
Mark Stewart Greenstein: 3 votes – .41%
Kendal Ludden: 3 votes – .41%
Mike ter Maat: 367 votes – 49.66%
Clint Russell: 339 votes – 45.87%
NOTA: 8 votes – 1.08%
Other: 10 votes – 1.37%
Clegg, Greenstein, and Ludden are eliminated. A second round is underway.
Results of the Libertarian National Committee At-Large elections. LNC delegates elect Andrew Watkins, Travis Bost, Kathy Yenisavich, Robert Vinson, and Steven Nekhaila on the first ballot.
Screenshot on IPR’s socials: https://x.com/I_P_R/status/1794942265573695976?t=gmW0TuCDtOuTOXGhNDJB2A&s=19
Chase Oliver is right now trending on X
the AV team could at least put hold music for the livestream
Thanks to the mods for keeping this thread useful.
I peeked in on Ballot Access News’s coverage, and their comments are a cesspool. 🙁
With specific percentages:
Chase Oliver: 497 votes – 60.61%
NOTA: 300 votes – 36.59%
Other: 23 votes – 2.8%
I’ve also added a photo of the list of At-Large candidate names above.
Chase Oliver nominated, 7th ballot
Chase Oliver elected on 7th ballot!
Oliver: 497(60.61%)
NOTA: 300 (36.59%)
write-ins: 23 (2.8%)
I left the convention an hour ago and wow, the atmosphere has changed since this morning.
if neither Oliver nor NOTA receive 50% due to write-ins there will be another ballot, unless someone makes a motion to suspend the rules to nominate by acclimation
Tonight has been a lesson in minding where microphones are located.
holy cow, some bigoted dude is talking near an open mic that’s going over the livestream
thanks, my math was off
If NOTA wins and there is nobody nominated by the Libertarian Party on a national basis,
Libertarian Parties that are ballot qualified can still nominate electors and pledge them to
candidates nominated by the state committee.
National bylaws prohibit any affiliated Libertarian Parties from supporting candidates for President and Vice-President
in opposition to the national nominees of the Libertarian Party. If there is no nominee at the national level, I don’t see how
selecting nominees at the state level would violate the bylaws. I could be wrong.
Any idea what happens if neither Oliver nor NOTA receive 50% due to write-ins
Darryl: 5 votes short. 4 more votes would be exactly 50%, 5 would be majority.
People keep trying to campaign under the guise of “request for information.”
Motion to have At-Large voting simultaneously with 7th POTUS ballot.
POTUS ballot packets have already been distributed, motion fails.
Motion to nominate Chase Olive by acclamation, not taken up.
when NOTA was elected Chair in 2012, there was at least 1 round of re-voting between the 2 human candidates before a vote between 1 humn & NOTA. A new batch of candidates were then entered into nomination.
Angela trying to make a statement, people keep interupting.
Rectenwald eliminated, if NOTA wins there will be no POTUS candidate.
Libertarian National Convention moves to Chase Oliver versus “None of the Above.” Chair states that if Oliver loses to NOTA, the Libertarian Party will have no presidential nominee. She acknowledges this is “extremely controversial.”
Chase was 3 votes short of a majority. Rectenwald should be eliminated. Ballot 7 should be Chase & NOTA.
LNC2024 Presidential Nominee Results (Round 6):
Chase Oliver: 423 votes – 49.53%
Michael Rectenwald: 382 votes – 44.73%
NOTA: 44 votes – 5.15%
Other: 5 votes – .60%
Neither candidate reached 50%. Libertarian National Committee Chair states this may be unprecedented.
Mike ter Maat announced that he has accepted Chase Oliver’s offer to run as his vice presidential candidate, replacing Oliver’s previously announced choice. Cites his differences with the Mises Caucus strategy. The audience goes wild.
Shortly after, Michael Heise of the Mises Caucus takes the microphone and says that they also offered ter Maat the vice presidential position.
6th ballot should do it, unless NOTA creates a paradox that will only be solved when enough people fall asleep, walk away in disgust, or have to go home. At some point tonight they will lose AV. I was pretty close guessing 5, but no one else guessed.
Chase Oliver: 286 (32.87%)
Rectenwald: 334 (38.39%)
Ter Maat: 225 (25.86%) ELIMINATED
NOTA: 22 (2.53%)
Trump: 1
Joe Montana: 1
RFK: 1
LNC2024 Presidential Nominee Results (Round 5):
Mike ter Maat: 225 votes – 25.86%
Chase Oliver: 286 votes – 32.87%
Michael Rectenwald: 334 votes – 38.39%
NOTA: 22 votes – 2.53%
Other: 3 votes – .33%
Mike ter Maat is eliminated. The convention moves on to a sixth round of voting.
A motion was made to suspend the rules to delay the LNC At-Large nominations and elections and proceed with the Vice Presidential nominations and elections. Standing vote underway.
5% gets federal funding, which draws a bunch of opportunistic candidates to the next presidential nomination 4 years later. It killed the Reform Party, which if I’m not having a massive brain fart was the last time a third party got that money.
This is your quadrennial reminder that POTUS getting 5% does NOT “guarantee major party status and automatic ballot access.”
Only KY (2%) & WA (5%) base party status on POTUS election. POTUS election can never grant party status in another 13 states, and 8 states use POTUS or Gov
*were
* Votes
It’s not likely that they will have time for both VP and at large, if indeed they get to either one. My guess of 5 rounds may have been low. They used to be better at time management. Debates we’re in the evenings after close of business and credentials didn’t take up most of a day. More was done while voted were underway, too. It’s pretty clear that neither platform nor bylaws will be done at all.
It has to be to compensate for time. I’m not sure how much longer the LNC has the hall for tonight. They still haven’t even voted on LNC At-Large yet.
Libertarian National Convention Presidential Nominee Results (Round 4):
Lars Mapstead: 139 votes – 15.6%
Michael ter Maat: 175 votes – 19.64%
Chase Oliver: 231 votes – 25.93%
Michael Rectenwald: 335 votes – 37.6%
NOTA: 10 votes – 1.12%
Other: 1 votes – .11%
Mapstead is eliminated.
PRESIDENT ROUND 4 RESULTS
Mapstead 15.6% Eliminated
Oliver 25.93%
Rectenwald 37.6%
Ter Maat 19.64%
Write-in 0.11%
NOTA 1.12%
I notice they are not doing concession or a acceptance speeches like they used to in the past.
Can I take a minute to note Jordan’s excellent coverage of the convention? It’s been amazing work, thanks for all you do!
Libertarian National Committee Vice Chair Results (Round 1):
Hannah Goodman: 357 votes – 39.93%
Joshua Hvlaka: 75 votes – 8.39%
Mark Rutherford: 448 votes – 50.11%
NOTA: 13 votes – 1.45%
Other: 1 votes – .11%
Mark Rutherford is elected.
CAH elected Secretary 454 votes (50.73%)
Bill Redpath elected Treasurer 510 votes (57.05%)
Libertarian National Committee Treasurer Results (Round 1):
Bill Redpath: 510 votes – 57.05%
Allison Spink 44 votes – 4.92%
Patrick Mitchell: 330 votes – 36.91%
NOTA: 8 votes – .89%
Other: 2 votes – .22%
Bill Redpath is elected treasurer. #LNC2024
Bill Redpath , treasurer, elected first ballot. I did not catch the percentage. They’re going to at large.
VP?
Libertarian National Committee Secretary Results (Round 1):
Caryn Ann Harlos: 454 votes – 50.73%
Mimi Robson: 314 votes – 35.08%
Shawn Levasseur: 118 votes – 13.18%
NOTA: 6 votes – .67%
Other: 3 votes – .33%
Caryn Ann Harlos is reelected.
Harlos reelected Secretary, first ballot, 50.75%
Mark Rutherford elected Vice Chair on 1st ballot with 448 votes (50.11%)
Libertarian National Convention Presidential Nominee Results (Round 3):
Lars Mapsted: 137 votes – 15.1%
Michael ter Maat: 165 votes – 18.19%
Joshua Smith: 45 votes – 4.96%
Chase Oliver: 230 votes – 25.36%
Michael Rectenwald: 319 votes – 35.17%
NOTA: 9 votes – .99%
Other: 2 votes – .22%
Smith eliminated.
It’s a good thing Seebeck was wrong about 5:30 being a hard deadline since they have not elected anyone other than chair and region chairs yet, much less got to any platform or bylaws proposals. No other guesses on number of presidential ballots? I’m staying at 5 for now.
Convention ends today (unless the agenda is amended), so the delegates need to either elect VP today or let the LNC fill the vacancy: Two-thirds of the entire membership of the National Committee may, at a meeting, fill a Vice-Presidential vacancy (Bylaws Article 14.3)
Secretary nominees (in order of nomination):
Mimi Robson
CAH
Shawn Levasseur
–nominations closed
NOTA always a candidate
Treasurer nominees (in order of nomination):
Bill Redpath
Allison Spink
Patrick Mitchell
–nominations closed
NOTA always a candidate
Libertarian National Convention Presidential Nominee Results (Round 2):
Lars Mapsted: 123 votes – 13.5%
Michael ter Maat: 162 votes – 17.78%
Joshua Smith: 62 votes – 6.81%
Chase Oliver: 219 votes – 24.04%
Michael Rectenwald: 293 votes – 32.16%
Jacob Hornberger: 37 votes – 4.06%
NOTA: 7 votes
Other: 8 votes – .88%
Hornberger eliminated.
You should be able to post images with the img src tag. If you don’t allow it in comments you can add to article or make a new one.
Looks like officers & POTUS round 3 will be voted at the same time
Also, I want to apologize for the outages. I don’t know if I mentioned it earlier, but we’re getting flooded by bots in a major way. According to our host, who has been going above and beyond to help us this weekend even though he’s at the convention, it’s been pretty severe.
In the meantime, I am still sharing results on our social media accounts when the site is down.
Richard is correct. I rechecked the stream and it is 259 delegates. If I could post direct screenshots in the comments, I would, so please bare with me.
PS
there was a motion to eliminate everyone under 10%, but it was defeated
I just looked at the screenshot I took, Rect had 259 votes for 28.18%
write-ins included:
Trump: 6
Stormy Daniels: 1
Denali the Cat: 1
Afroman: 1
Ballot access news has Rectenwald at 259. Which one is correct?
Libertarian National Convention Presidential Nominee Results (Round 1):
Charles Ballay: 21 votes – 2.29%
Jacob Hornberger: 59 votes – 6.42%
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.: 19 votes – 2.07%
Lars Mapsted: 122 votes – 13.28%
Art Olivier: 4 votes – 0.44%
Chase Oliver: 181 votes – 19.7%
Michael Rectenwald: 255 votes – 28.18%
Joshua Smith: 73 votes – 7.94%
Michael ter Maat: 141 votes – 15.34%
Joshua “Toad” Anderson: 16 votes – 1.74%
NOTA: 11 votes
Other: 12 votes
Toad, Olivier, RFK Jr., and Ballay eliminated.
VC nominations open; here are the nominees (in order of nomination):
Hannah Goodman
Mark Rutherford
Joshua Hlavka
nominations closed, as always NOTA is a candidate
Eleven candidates are up for the LP’s POTUS nomination. I believe this is the largest field in LP Convention history.
Contra Seebeck below, McArdle apparently believes that they have the room til 7 or 8, if not later.
Anyone want to venture a guess on number of ballots for presidential candidate to be nominated? My first guess is 5.
Hannah Goodman moves to suspend the rules to add a delegate to the Colorado delegation. The motion is defeated. Vice Chair nomination speeches are soon underway.
Jared Hall is said to have withdrawn from the Libertarian National Committee At-Large race.
Michael Rectenwald confirmed to the Washington Post that someone gave him an edible yesterday, explaining his demeanor and early leave at the press conference.
Not going to lie, NOTA makes some great points
It sounds like Nicole Shanahan was there earlier in the afternoon.
Peter Everett (MA) motioned to disallow certification of votes from affiliates that do not allow their delegation to oversee the counting of votes.
motion failed
I am not commenting about the merits of any appeal as I do not know what those may be.
I am commenting on the *process* of appeals which is perfectly acceptable.
Please learn the difference.
@Seebeck “it is advisable for any Judicial Committee appeals regarding Regions and Regional Reps be postponed until the LNC is fully populated and can revisit the ratifications first if necessary. I say that as a member of the Judicial Committee with a reminder that we have no deadline to have a hearing once we receive an appeal.”
It is not a good look for a JC member to be posting pre-emptively about a possible issue that would come before them. Should there be an appeal to the JC on this, I’d ask you to refrain from further public comments so you aren’t asked to recuse yourself by a party to the appeal (not me).
1) Does anyone know if 5:30 is a hard stop?
As far as we know, yes.
2) Bylaws state “The National Committee shall appoint new officers and members-at-large if vacancies occur, such officers and members-at-large to complete the term of the office vacated.” I’m assuming they would need quorum to conduct business, and quorum is based on total LNC positions. If there are less than 8 regional reps, they will not be able to conduct business; AND the bylaws were amended a few years ago to remove the ability to call a special convention. If the convention closes without enough LNC members to conduct business, what’s going to happen to the Libertarian Party over the next 2 years?
All 8 regional reps are elected *at this point* plus the Chair, so there would be a quorum for the LNC to meet to elect the vacant seats.
BUT…we REALLY don’t want to have it come to that. Delegates need to accelerate the process instead of all of these delaying tactics. We’re on the clock here. We neither want nor need to repeat New Orleans.
That also means it is advisable for any Judicial Committee appeals regarding Regions and Regional Reps be postponed until the LNC is fully populated and can revisit the ratifications first if necessary. I say that as a member of the Judicial Committee with a reminder that we have no deadline to have a hearing once we receive an appeal.
1) Does anyone know if 5:30 is a hard stop?
2) Bylaws state “The National Committee shall appoint new officers and members-at-large if vacancies occur, such officers and members-at-large to complete the term of the office vacated.” I’m assuming they would need quorum to conduct business, and quorum is based on total LNC positions. If there are less than 8 regional reps, they will not be able to conduct business; AND the bylaws were amended a few years ago to remove the ability to call a special convention. If the convention closes without enough LNC members to conduct business, what’s going to happen to the Libertarian Party over the next 2 years?
3) I keep clicking “Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.” but have to keep re-entering my name, email & website.
Libertarians for Kennedy are speaking and getting booed loudly.
Doing some math, 3 hours for nomination speeches, unknown number of voting rounds, lunch…when are they electing VP, other officers, at large, doing platform, bylaws, judicial committee!? Obviously, not all of these things will be done. If there are enough presidential ballots, maybe none of them will be done. Maybe the idea of the organizers is to have some of the LNC pick the rest of the LNC and no judicial committee to appeal to?
Joshua “Toad” Anderson
Is “Toad” a person named Toad or an actual toad?
We did have a lizard run for Chair once, so a toad running for President is plausible.
Sorry for the delay, everyone. The site went down sometime in the last hour, but our host immediately jumped on things. For posterity, here are the candidates under consideration for the presidential nomination, in the order presented by LNC Chair Angela McArdle:
1.) Art Olivier
2.) Lars Mapstead
3.) Mike ter Maat
4.) Toad (Josh Anderson)
5.) Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
6.) Joshua Smith
7.) Charles Ballay
8.) Chase Oliver
9.) None of the Above
10.) Michael Rectenwald
11.) Jacob Hornberger
Regarding Kennedy, his nomination was initially contested, but he has since joined the Libertarian Party as a sustaining member and submitted his nominating papers/accepted the nomination. Candidate nomination speeches are currently underway.
Day 3 began with Missouri attempting to add two delegates. You can watch it here https://www.youtube.com/live/L0LMoh2K4V8?si=jyNXqWwSayePBJRo
Daily Mail’s coverage of Trump’s LNC speech: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13460243/trump-booed-screamed-libertarian-convention.html
I can admit when I’m wrong.
Inviting Trump to speak at the national convention was actually brilliant.
This is just a sampling of the earned media the LP is getting for that little stunt:
CNN: Trump loudly booed at Libertarian convention when he asks attendees to ‘nominate me or at least vote for me’
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/25/politics/libertarian-party-trump-convention-speech/index.html
New York Times: Trump Tells Libertarians to Nominate Him, and Mocks Them When They Boo
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/25/us/politics/trump-libertarian-convention.html
Washington Post: Trump loudly heckled at Libertarian National Convention
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/25/trump-loudly-heckled-libertarian-national-convention/
Politico: ‘He’s more delusional than I thought’: Libertarians jeer Trump during convention speech
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/25/panderer-libertarians-jeer-trump-at-their-convention-00160023
Guardian: ‘No wannabe dictators!’: Donald Trump booed at Libertarian convention
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/26/no-wannabe-dictators-donald-trump-booed-at-libertarian-convention
Trump met with boos asking Libertarians for nomination, votes at chaotic convention
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-met-boos-libertarians-nomination-votes-chaotic-convention/story?id=110568008
NBC: Trump booed and jeered at Libertarian National Convention
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/trump-commute-silk-road-website-operator-ross-ulbrichts-life-prison-se-rcna154082
Reuters: Trump booed and heckled by raucous crowd at Libertarian convention
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-booed-heckled-raucous-crowd-020356627.html
Think of the type of new members that headlines like this will attract versus the type of people who will be driven away.
The Mises Caucus just shot themselves in the fucking foot. 😀
Trump campaign getting hotel staff to remove Mapstead posters and stickers. C-SPAN walking out during event. Secret service blocking fire exits, stairs, elevators and apparently also bathrooms(?!). Star Child and Dan Reale physically removed. Endless shouting matches laced with obscenities and threats. I’m surprised that McArdle even wants another terms as chair.
I like the Mises Caucus – they are the only faction in the Libertarian Party that have even the slightest passing resemblance to libertarians – but that doesn’t mean they did a good job organizing or running this convention. This is total bedlam. Worse still, there is carefully planned and well organized sabotage going on under the cover of the bedlam.
Trump campaign getting hotel staff to remove Mapstead posters and stickers. CSPAN walking out during event. Secret service blocking fire exits, stairs, elevators and apparently also bathrooms(?!). Star Child and Dan Reale physically removed. Endless shouting matches laced with obscenities and threats. I’m surprised that McArdle even wants another terms as chair.
I like the Mises Caucus – they are the only faction in the Libertarian Party that have even the slightest passing resemblance to libertarians – but that doesn’t mean they did a good job organizing or running this convention. This is total bedlam. Worse still, there is carefully planned and well organized sabotage going on under the cover of the bedlam.
Well, per what I theorized about a week ago, Trump TRIED to “stampede” the convention, and got his head handed to him on a platter, it seems.
Starchild was physically removed from the Trump rally at the LNC https://x.com/DrewHLive/status/1794543322587164822
@Joe: so Rectenwald is no longer in the LP or no longer seeking the LP nomination?
An anti-Trump channel on Youtube has posted a section from the convention when delegates attempted to push the motion to disinvite Donald Trump https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6yE0lhTs-c
Rectenwald had trouble standing, slurs speech, mispronounces “Ronald Trump” and rage quits post-trump press conference.
Trump says “no group of people have been as badly or harshly treated in this country [than the Jan6 rioters].”
He’s wrong!
Exhibit A: Native Americans
Exhibit B: slaves
Exhibit C: Japanese-Americans during WW2
Trump: “I’m committing to your tonight that I will put a Libertarian in my cabinet, and also, Libertarians in senior posts.”
I am still streaming Trump’s speech here – https://youtu.be/02pLKv4as7A
I found a feed from RSBN… as expected, he asked for the LP endorsement
LP National is streaming the podium from the convention hall and not the event happening in the ballroom. C-SPAN’s live feed is only available to people with a cable/satellite subscription.
Utah Senator Mike Lee is addressing Donald Trump supporters and Libertarian delegates attending Trump’s speech.
Link: https://x.com/LPNational/status/1794516956483072038?t=_sfow4QXSGd5msplTY43Xw&s=19
Why did Rectenwald get to speak?
Trump is about to speak. Large chants erupted randomly yelling”Free Ross” Chase Oliver and Mike ter Maat stood on chairs with around 30 delegates chanting while Trump supporters booed them.
According to the Libertarian National Committee Communications Director, the following topics will be addressed by former President Donald Trump:
1.) Free Ross Ulbricht
2.) Free Julian Assange
3.) Defend the Second Amendment
4.) Peace not War
5.) Abolish the Deep State
6.) Stop Runaway Inflation
7.) End the Fed
8.) No More Foreign Aid
9.) No Central Bank Digital Currencies
10.) Eliminate the Federal Income Tax
I just CoPilot searched “what kind of online voting tools are there for meetings or conventions with hundreds of people” And they listed four tools.
With all these IT people, why cant libertarians streamline the voting process. Will we really get through Prez and officers tomorrow. Well, we’ve don it before, but it really discourages people coming to conventions.
ANGELA MCCARDLE WINS AGAIN. They didn’t bother to show us the numbers.. So her plot to whore herself out to the GOP/TRUMP – pimped by Heise of course – to get maga mises to convention worked. DISGUSTING.
Now it will be necessary for states to **drive her from office.** First they should discuss starting TRUE libertarian party, have a couple meetings, drop off CRM, or whatever.lso if the Prez candidate is one of their flunkies states can just noncooperate with him.
Then demand the top worst 3 or 4 LNC members resign. And keep suing the hell out of them for fraud and tortious interference with the contract with members to promote libertarianism and NOT GOP and other candidates.
Thanks, X.
LNC Chair Results (Round 2):
Angela McArdle: 497 votes – 53.44%
Mark Rutherford: 414 votes – 44.52%
None of the Above: 15 votes – 1.61%
Other: 4 votes – .44%
Mcardle 497, Rutherford 414, nota 15
earned media: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/24/libertarian-convention-fighting-obscenities-trump-visit-00160008
I heard someone say 54%
LNC Chair Angela McArdle has been reelected. Results coming shortly.
I am right now in the room Trump is going to speak in. Media were let in at 4 but at 4:30 a group of Republicans showed up without any LP credentials and were let in while LNC and LP people are waiting till 5 to be let in.
Sounded like Moellman endorsed Rutherford, I didn’t hear an endorsement from Besado or Nekhaila.
McArdle 454, Rutherford 299, others 161
Chair result:
Angela McArdle: 454 votes – 49.24%
Mark Rutherford: 299 votes – 32.43%
Ken Moellman: 100 votes – 10.85%
Steven Nekhaila: 54 votes – 5.86%
Jorge Besada: 5 votes – .54%
Other: 2 votes – .22%
Moellman and Nekhaila drop out. Besada is eliminated.
what were the results of the 1st ballot for Chair? can’t see anything on livestream.
Georgia
GA
Which state is revoting?
Secret Service is said to be blocking fire exits and stairwells. There’s also a discrepancy in the total number of votes cast. Revote underway, at least in one state.
I spoke to Presidential Candidate Charles Ballay who said “the race is wide open” and that he has “learned more then he card to know”. in this campaign. It also appears the POTUS and VPOTUS vote is tomorrow.
I spoke to Presidential Candidate Charles Ballay who said “the race is wide open” and that he has “learned more then he card to know”. in this campaign. It also appears the POTUS and VPOTUS vote is tomorrow.
Anyone have a link to the VP debate?
Angela McArdle is next. She is nominated by Scott Horton of Texas, who admits that the past two years may not have been perfect, but that they’re an overall positive for the party and should continue. He says McArdle’s leadership is a continuation of the Ron Paul Revolution from 2008 and 2012: “Hardcore for gold, guns, freedom, and peace.”
These Rutherford nomination speeches are awesomely brutal.
Evan McMahon nominates Mark Rutherford for chair, interestingly depicting him as a relatively uncharismatic person before leaning into his professional accomplishments and ability to recruit strong talent. Boomer Shannon and a woman who name I didn’t catch from Texas join them on stage to speak on behalf of Rutherford.
Business is back in session. Chair candidate speeches should be happening shortly. LNC Vice Chair Andrew Watkins is chairing.
Independent Political Report was forwarded an email from Washington, D.C. Young Republicans Chair Brian Oakes, calling on DCYR members to attend the LNC later tonight in support of former President Donald Trump’s speech.
As Jordan said, they are on lunch break. A Dave Smith talk is happening and I will be interviewing candidates on my feed shortly.
BREAKING NEWS: Chase Oliver announces 34 year-old, Indiana LP Vice Chair KRISTIN ALEXANDER as his choice for his VP running mate. (She will turn 35 before the November election.)
Lunch recess until 1:30 PM EST. Per the original agenda, party leadership elections should then follow.
McArdle clearly won the chair’s debate based on delegate reactions. Unlike other candidates, most of the current chair’s comments interpreted by applause and cheers. Hall appears at least 85 percent full.
Thanks, Nathan. I updated videos feeds in the thread.
The chair debate is happening now. Many delegates have left and each candidate has received mild reactions except McArdle who was cheered loudly. We are streaming it now too – https://www.youtube.com/live/SYTs5DoBauE?si=4fdNhSygPY9XPJw6
I understand the chair simply chose not to hear it. I’m not sure what recourse delegates have, but I’ve seen some anecdotes on social media suggesting the person who made the motion can choose to address the convention directly if it remains ignored. I just don’t know what that looks like in practice.
The LNC Chair debate is starting now, moderated by Jim Lark. It’ll run for 45 minutes.
Why was the motion to vacate the chair simply ignored yesterday? Just because? I’m listening to the tape, and it appears to have had seconds. The maker of the motion used foul language before and after, but that in itself doesn’t invalidate the motion.
Disorder of the day is chair election, followed by other ossifurs.
The presidential debates have finished, and some people noted that CSPAN did not cover them. According to the original agenda, the debates were scheduled for later in the evening, with party officer elections set to take place around this time. Some delegates are now calling for the orders of the day.
Listened to milk carton kids debate. Can’t say any of them stood out to me. If I was a delegate I would still vote for NOTA.
There are six candidates right now. Lars, Chase, Ballay, Rec, Smith and, ter Maat
I don’t think that’s Olivier. It’s these 5 in yellow boxes
https://lnc2024.com/presidential-candidate-debate-strawpoll-results/
Plus TerMaat, who missed it narrowly, per Redpath’s motion yesterday.
POTUS debate occurring now. Hall appears full. Loudest initial cheers for Chase Oliver and Mike ter Matt. Boos for Joshua Smith (closed borders), and Art Oliver (“fix the department of education).
Coverage by Bloomberg:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/rfk-jr-hits-trump-covid-223836516.html
Large boos towards Josh Smith when he said “America is full”
Coverage by The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/24/rfk-jr-biden-trump-libertarian-convention
For those who may not have realized, Mike ter Maat was added to the presidential candidate debate yesterday afternoon. It was originally Smith, Ballay, Oliver, Rectenwald, and Mapstead from the vote-with-your-dollars poll.
Large cheers have erupted chanting “Rec the Regime” in response to Rectenwald speaking.
They have now fixed the audio.
Thank you, Nathan! The audio on the LNC live-stream is incredibly difficult to hear, so it’s good you’re there.
We are live now! https://youtu.be/SYTs5DoBauE
That would explain it 🙂 Thanks for taking the time to manually approve and sorry for the hassle!
Apologies, Nuña. One of those measures requires administrators to manually approve commenters without a previous posting history. If you’re someone whose IP address fluctuates between visits, the site interprets that as a new commenter.
Nathan from NSSN here, Vivek and Clint have been engaging in a “friendly” debate for the past half hour. There has been some heckling but not to crazy. I will be posting a video of the debate tonight.
The Libertarian Party X account posts that Vivek Ramaswamy is debating Clint Russell, meaning Clint win the straw poll. Dave Smith moderates. I’m still trying to find poll vote totals.
Link to photo: https://x.com/LPNational/status/1794169461421043835?t=FiHdBJW_TKf6syi08lgq4A&s=19
Vivek Ramiswamy receives boos and cat calls for proposing a “libertarian-nationalist” alliance.
Asks: so you want 3 percent as a stretch goal, or do you want a seat at the (Trump) table with the next administration.
Ends with: “let’s actually get the job done” and a call to”pardon every peaceful January 6 protester.”
“Independent Political Report had to bring back some security measures. Hopefully it doesn’t impact anyone’s ability to use the site this weekend, but we saw an uptick in bot behavior not long into this afternoon and our host adjusted our settings as a precautionary measure.”
Since new comments are being placed but mine is not, I assume that’s a result of those security measures; in which case, yes, it is unfortunately impacting my ability to use the site this weekend.
Can we please find new VP candidates?
Looks like Larry Sharpe v. Clint Russell for the VP spot
How reassuring to see that even under the Mises Caucus, the LNC continues to be the same anti-libertarian kindergarten we all know and hate since 1987. Dr McCullough’s talk tomorrow morning should be good, as should Ron Paul’s on Sunday. And if Trump’s campaign doesn’t prevent Foreman from playing certain songs, the karaoke could turn interesting. But other than that, what an dismal money-grubbing Chuck E. Cheese experience, complete with corrupt organizers and entitled crybabies.
Sarwark explicates Libertarian “Civil War” during MSNBC interview.
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/trump-addressing-libertarian-convention-doesn-t-sit-well-with-former-chairperson-211570757513
It would appear that Mises needed another 50 to 75 delegates here to prevail.
Fairly obvious they tried to get a majority by manipulating the credentialing process (appointing Members to that committee last week in apparent violation of the national party bylaws). They would appear to have seen this coming.
Witnessed dejection among some Mises aligned, but also witnessed some Mises aligned shifting to unaligned given the initial gross unfairness.
RFK presentation received at best tepid reactions, except for his promise to pardon Snowden and Assange, which gained enthusiastic cheers, and a partial standing ovation.
Chair candidate debate will occur tomorrow.
Technical difficulties here are making it more challenging to report than in the past.
News2Share producer and Outsider Media Foundation board member Ford Fischer is also at the convention. According to Ford via X, hotel staff ripped up posters of Libertarian presidential candidate Lars Mapstead earlier in the afternoon. Mapstead told Ford that it was representatives from the Trump campaign who demanded they be removed ahead of his appearance tomorrow.
VIDEO: https://x.com/FordFischer/status/1794078734510604505
Thanks for the updates and to everyone clearing up the convention drama!
Which VP candidates are in the debate?
Independent Political Report had to bring back some security measures. Hopefully it doesn’t impact anyone’s ability to use the site this weekend, but we saw an uptick in bot behavior not long into this afternoon and our host adjusted our settings as a precautionary measure.
Some people are wondering where they can watch Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s speech. The LNC live-stream is focused on convention business, but The Hill is covering his speech: https://thehill.com/video-clips/4684087-rfk-jr-speaks-at-libertarian-national-convention-watch-live/
The Libertarian National Convention is adjourned until 9:00 AM tomorrow morning. The vice-presidential debate, Vivek Ramaswamy debate, and regional caucuses are still happening tonight.
Nominations for Chair:
Ken Moellman
Mark Rutherford
Steven Nekhaila
Angela McArdle
Jorge Beseda
If the official live stream goes wonky again, I suggest the CSpan live stream as an alternative.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?535900-1/libertarian-party-delegates-debate-convention-business-schedule&live
(It has arguably better camera framing, too)
MI went first, maybe you missed it, before OK and WA. The delegates, not a mob, were correct, in that they were amending the credentials report before adoption, not adding delegates after adoption. The former is simple majority and the latter is 7/8. The reconsideration was dilatory.
What was actually out of order was the credentials committee deciding it was its job to rule on whether state delegations were in compliance with state bylaws, and the LNC deciding mere single digit days before the convention to replace credentials committee members with lnc members and refusing to vote on whether this was in order. Additionally, one of the lnc members who was put on the credentials committee well after the 6 month close of lnc nomination to that committee had stated he was not planning to attend the convention.
This morning there were contentious votes about seating delegates from a couple of states (OK and WA, but not MI?). IIUC what happened was: McCardle tried to enforce the Bylaw requiring 7/8 votes for such motions. Her rulings were (repeatedly?) overruled by appealing the ruling of the chair, which requires only a simple majority. This was an egregious violations of the party’s rules, and over lunch McCardle apparently was persuaded that this exposed he LP to legal jeapardy. She ruled that the seated delegates are in fact not seated, and she was receptive to Aaron Starr’s motion to place a fig leaf of legality on the morning’s proceedings. He moved to 1) amend the 7/8th Bylaw threshold to 2/3, and 2) seat the disputed delegates. After a raucus and contentious debate, the delegates passed the Starr motion.
I thought there was a principle in Robert’s that if a minority (here 1/8) is protected by a rule, then a Bylaws change to decrease that protection (here to 1/3) requires a vote surpassing the original threshold. But I can’t find the provision in RRONR.
This continues a disturbing trend toward mob rule at LP conventions. Higher voting thresholds in our rules are there for a reason, to protect the party’s most cherished inheritance (e.g. the Statement of Principles) from mobs that want to trample them. When we reformers repaired the platform in 2008, we did so without ever using a mere-majority chair overrule to bypass a supermajority vote threshold.
This move by Starr and McCardle seemed to be a rearguard action against this trend toward mob rule. But when you give the mob the outcome they demanded, they aren’t learning the lesson you think you’re teaching them.
Saliba asked how much was spent suing LPMI, Hagopian said “it’s in my report”
If I’m not mistaken,that was all Dan Reale of CT . His motion was ruled out of order, he cussed out the chair and threatened to sue her, was apparently being physically removed from the microphone whereupon he yelled assault. The chair expressed extreme skepticism that he was actually assaulted, but nevertheless asked sergeants at arms to assist with maintaining physical peace and security and escort those not in compliance out of the room.
Note, this was all my deductions from the audio. No video has been available where I’ve found.
Someone said some pretty colorful things about Angela McArdle and another is screaming “assault.” Not exactly sure who is saying it or what happened yet. Angela McArdle told the sergeant-at-arms (she said there are multiple) to remove rowdy folks.
At least two people. They were not just telling off Trump, but pointing out that they have submitted a motion to uninvite him which has been cosponsored by dozens of delegates and waiting for hours while other motions were made ad hoc repeatedly by the same people hogging the microphones over and over.
Dilatory BS. The chair was overruled on those delegations. They were already seated. The real question is what are they trying to avoid with all this time wasting?
A motion has been made to vacate the chair position, but delegates are still working through the rules suspension. Someone also used the mic to tell off Donald Trump.
Credentials are back on the table. The additions to the Washington and Oklahoma delegations are being considered invalid, and there is a motion to suspend the rules to amend them so that delegates can be added with only a two-thirds vote.
Meanwhile, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. will be speaking in the Columbia Ballroom in the next 15 minutes.
Back in order. They were going to move to the adoption of the agenda, but are now possibly going back to adding delegates, which was the only thing done before lunch. Blow by blow: https://thirdpartywatch.com/2024/05/24/libertarian-national-convention-may-24-2024/
Video are from commercials, audio is from random people having conversations.
The LNC live-stream is back online, but there is no audio. It’s currently running a series of candidate commercials and advertisements.
You can thank Q for that correction.
Lunch is underway. The convention was still working through the credentials portion of the agenda prior to adjourning for lunch. I imagine folks are going to be in for a long first day.
Walter, that was fixed because Q caught the prior error.
Per the live-stream, the credentials report has been amended to add the Michigan and Washington delegations. Oklahoma is underway.
Q
At the bottom of the graphic there is an item that appears to show that VT has 3 delegates.
Angela McArdle just announced the convention hall Wi-Fi over the stream, so if there was a problem before, it’s no longer the case.
Additionally, the party is now streaming the convention on the usual channel. I’ve added it to the thread.
Credentials committee shenanigans have, as expected, not stopped.
https://thirdpartywatch.com/2024/05/22/court-overturns-lpmi-judcomm-orders-delegates-seated/comment-page-1/#comment-1244
I saw a post on facebook that said the LNC is claiming the hotel doesn’t have wifi and they won’t be able to livestream. Can anyone confirm if this is accurate?
I’ll begin coverage, initially with comments to existing posts, beginning with the opening gavel on Friday (unless something significant is happening at the time of my arrival at the convention hotel late tonight).
PLEASE live stream Friday morning. Lots of Firework, floor fites, etc.
Hi Q,
Good catch. Thanks!
Zero Vermont delegates?