Richard Carroll, the highest ranking Green in the nation, will switch parties

Richard Carroll, the Green Party’s only state legislator in the nation, will be switching his affiliation to the Democratic party.  He is in Arkansas, where Democrats currently control 71 out of 100 seats in the state House.  As a Green, Carroll passed a bill that lengthened independent candidates’ time to petition and established a program for deaf pages in the state House, among other things.  Carroll only joined the Greens in order to get on the ballot in 2008, and today he said, “I pretty well voted Democrat anyway, and I wasn’t basically a Green member prior to running for the seat. I felt like I needed to get with my core beliefs.”  The Democrats planned to run someone against Carroll in 2010 if he did not change his party affiliation.

More information on this here and here.

120 thoughts on “Richard Carroll, the highest ranking Green in the nation, will switch parties

  1. Gregg Jocoy

    I guess what disappoints the most is that Richard told me that he was in sync with the Green Party platform.

    The decisions are up to the Greens in Arkansas, but if it were me I think I’d be looking for a solid candidate to run against Mr. Carroll.

  2. Una Carroll

    Richard Carroll has never made a secret of why he joined the Green Party and he has never made a secret of his core beliefs. Mr. Carroll has said repeatedly that he is not in sync 100% with the Greens. At that look at what he has done. He has worked very hard to get third party ballot access in Arkansas. Trust me it would be easier to get beer sold on Sunday. (and only people who truly understand AR politics knows what that means) So please do not judge a politician by the party he is in, but by the policy he puts out.

  3. Ross Levin Post author

    Una, are you related to Richard?

    While I’m very thankful for the work Richard has done, the reason I’m personally disappointed about this is because he was one of the most prominent Greens in the country. He showed that the Green Party was becoming something close to a viable party at certain levels, and it was just nice to see an elected official outside the two party system.

  4. VAGreen

    “Trust me it would be easier to get beer sold on Sunday. (and only people who truly understand AR politics knows what that means)”

    That’s not necessarily exclusive to Arkansas. When my wife and I drove up to Buffalo to see my extended family at Christmas, we made a pit stop in rural Maryland. I wanted to buy some Land Shark beer for my father, but the locals told me that under county law, that was verboten before noon.

  5. PTK

    Well according to some GP folks, they are actually happy about this, calling Carroll a very un-Green person.

  6. Kimberly Wilder

    I think that when you are the small party, fighting for the people – even just a little – you are likely to get co-opted once you get any platform, no less become an elected official.

    So, I am not surprised. And, it has happened before.

    One thing it makes me think of is that so many of the Green Party leadership (and clique) fall over themselves for celebrity candidates and people like Richard Carrol who seem “electable” probably because they are like the status quo. But, many Green Party leaders are nasty or ungrateful to long-time green activists who want to run, or people who have spent time working for reform in the bureaucracy. Those activists and dissenters would probably be the most likely to stay green, but the least likely to receive support and praise from “the clique.”

  7. Kimberly Wilder

    Also, I am glad that the Green Party gets to lose Richard Carroll. I think his nastiness about the Black Caucus thing was annoying.

    And, yes, I think the Green Party should run someone against him. Probably a black person.

    😉

    (LOL. I know the bluntness of my comment will make some people mad…I stand by for fireworks…but it would be a brilliant strategy…)

  8. Gregg Jocoy

    In a majority Black district, with a political party which ran a Black woman for President and Vice-President, and who has run a number of high profile Black candidates across the nation, of course it would make sense for the Arkansas GP to run a top quality Black candidate.

    But that decision is in the hands of the Arkansas Greens.

    I have known a lot of Green leaders. I have had disagreements with many of them. But I have never been under the impression that any of them have been impressed with position or name. In fact I have seen the party leadership disrespect Ralph Nader in ways I found as offensive as the ways he disrespected the Green Party’s membership. No one is perfect.

  9. Michael Cavlan

    Kimberley

    You mean old destro-Green. How dare you express your opinions, based on your own sense of right, wrong and political thought.

    Oh well Kimberley, you, I and all those other destro-Greens have been cut out of the GP, like the cancer we are.

    Hip Hip Huzzah.

    As an aside and in a slightly related story, Green Minneapolis Councilman Cam Gordon just had the local Democrats decide to not endorse anyone to run against him in the 2nd Ward of Minneapolis. Which is what happened with the former Green State Rep from Arkansaw. No real oposition from the corporate two party system.

    Cam Gordon has earned the ire of those activists in Minneapolis fighting against police brutality here.

    just a thought. Co opting and subversion of those activist wjho are opposed to the rotten, pro-war, corporate corrupted two party SYSTEM is an old, old story.

    So go away Kimberly, you old meanie, cancerous, destro-Green.

    Just go away and be quiet, will you?

    All said with heavy sarcasm of course. These people just do not get it. Speaking from my perspective (I was a Green Party official observer in the 2004 Ohio Re-Count) some of us have a problemn and will speak out for our fellow green activists who have been deliberately disenfranchised.

    Because it is the right thing to do.

    That is what drives me Kimberley.

    I must be a Cancer at heart, even though I am an Aries on the Pisces cusp.

    joke intended.

    //:-)>———–

  10. Scottie

    Una Carroll is Richard Carroll’s wife. She is black.

    And Kimberly Exactly how was Richard Carroll nasty in the black caucus. He asked to join. They said no. That was the end of that.

    Also I do agree wholeheartedly with your comments on celebrity candidates, the Greens need to do some grassrooting in their own backyard.

    In Arkansas alcohol can not be bought or sold in Arkansas on Sunday at all. The only exception is in restaurants that is only between noon and 10pm.

  11. VAGreen

    “As an aside and in a slightly related story, Green Minneapolis Councilman Cam Gordon just had the local Democrats decide to not endorse anyone to run against him in the 2nd Ward of Minneapolis. Which is what happened with the former Green State Rep from Arkansaw. No real oposition from the corporate two party system.”

    Here’s why the Democrats didn’t run someone. It’s not because they cut a deal with the Greens:

    From the Arkansas Times

    “Carroll’s route to the statehouse was a bit out of the way. A former chairman with North Little Rock’s International Brotherhood of Boilermakers Local No. 66, he said he’d never even considered running for public office until what he usually refers to as the “situation” involving Dwayne Dobbins. The former District 39 Representative, Dobbins resigned from the House in 2005 as part of a plea bargain that reduced a felony sexual assault charge to a misdemeanor harassment charge after allegations that Dobbins improperly touched a 17-year-old girl. Dobbins’ wife Sharon Dobbins subsequently won a special election after her husband resigned. Though the Democratic Party expected her to run again in 2008, her husband filed for the race an hour and a half before the deadline. The Democrats refused to support Dobbins’ candidacy, and went looking for write-in candidates.”

  12. anonymous

    Richard Carroll was apparently quite un-Green. Check out campaign finance records at
    http://tinyurl.com/dgn8nk (just one of several reports), where he lists a number of contributions from PACs, union funds, and the RJR Reynolds tobacco company (!). I’m glad he left the Green Party before his campaign financing was exposed publicly and we would have had to ask him to leave the party ourselves.

  13. VAGreen

    “These people just do not get it. Speaking from my perspective (I was a Green Party official observer in the 2004 Ohio Re-Count) some of us have a problemn and will speak out for our fellow green activists who have been deliberately disenfranchised.

    Because it is the right thing to do.

    That is what drives me Kimberley.”

    I really have a hard time believing that. Cavlan and his pals spent a great deal of time and effort attacking their fellow Greens back in 2007 . They attacked good Greens who trying to pull the national party together, and attacked state parties instead of trying to build them up. These attacks had nothing to do with how Nader supporters were allegedly mistreated in 2008.

  14. Gregg Jocoy

    The direct link to the PDF is here.

    Funny enough, the Sec of State is….drum roll…Charlie Daniels! And they say we go for name recognition!

    Frankly I wouldn’t be shocked in Richard, a decent man as best I can tell, decides to walk away from re-election altogether.

    We Greens should also ask ourselves why he didn’t get any contributions from our own ranks, at least as far as I can tell, and remember that Matt Ahern jumped ship from the Democrats to join the Green Party in New Jersey.

    And while members of top-down political parties may not understand it, the real decisions won’t be made in DC, nor here, but by the Greens in Arkansas, who have proven over and over again that they can handle their own affairs.

  15. Kimberly Wilder

    About Richard Carroll and the Black Caucus:

    Richard Carroll is white. He represents a district with a lot of people of diversity. And his wife is black. But, Carroll is white.

    Richard Carroll applied to the Black Caucus of his legislature. They told him he could attend meetings and participate in various ways. But, the Black Caucus decided that, as a white person, he could not vote.

    Instead of respecting that opinion, Richard Carroll made a big stink in the media that he had a right to be in it. Which, was really bossy to the African-Americans who made the decision. And, was also the usual sense of entitlement of “white people” to people of color.

    And, Richard Carroll’s whole episode and stink allowed a whole bunch of privileged and/or racists white people to go on and on about “reverse discrimination.”

    Also, Richard Carroll’s big stink confused the issue, so some people didn’t get he was allowed/invited to observe, participate, etc. – just not vote.

    As I have studied voting and voting systems, I realize that everyone who has a right to vote has a right to run for office. So, probably the Black Caucus wanted to make sure that a white person could not become an officer of their party and takeover. With the history of America and race relations, I can understand their fears and caution.

    If Richard Carroll really gives a fig about black people, he should be kind, take what he was offered, and go participate and HELP the caucus. Maybe, someday, he would gain trust and be invited to vote and/or run for office.

  16. Kimberly Wilder

    About the Green Party leadership/clique and who they do or do not support as candidates:

    Gregg Joccoy said,

    –I have known a lot of Green leaders. I have had disagreements with many of them. But I have never been under the impression that any of them have been impressed with position or name.—

    Again, I just have more experience and inside knowledge than Gregg.

    First of all, they get impressed with people whom they think they can win. And, a lot of the leadership goes on and on about acting “professional”, having glossy literature, dressing like a candidate, etc.

    Also, the Green leadership/clique likes greens already elected, and tries to grace them with more and more power. One time, someone proposed that green electeds get a vote (ie: additional to state reps) on the National Committee. A recent proposal that did not end up passing but was supported by a lot of the inner circle would make a separate set-aside fund for the green elected network or something.

    Also, in New York, which I know the most about, an annoying Green from the clique – let’s call him Mr. D – has lots of power, he writes most of the drafts for national press releases. In New York, he has often played games to try to thwart people from running for office if he does not think they are good enough. In one local, there was a great green activist R., and Mr. D. turned other people against him, saying he would be an embarassment to the greens if he ran. That has played out a few times with Mr. D and NY candidates, sometimes when he was an officer of the state party.

    So, yeah.

    The Green leadership and clique tends to favor people who are electable, and people who are already elected. And, many in the Green leadership discourage regular activists from running, or spread rumors, thwart, or withhold support from people who want to run who are not part of “the club.”

    Thanks.

    Every once in awhile, a trip down memory lane helps me heal the angst of all those years of thankless work I gave to the Green Party.

  17. Trent Hill

    I dont see the outrage. He got elected by a fluke. If he wants to be re-elected, and continue helping ballot access, green values, etc–then he must stay in the legislature right? And he can only do so by switching Democratic.

  18. Gregg Jocoy

    Trent,

    No one I have seen used the word “outrage”. The word I used, and have seen most often used, is disappointment.

    Perhaps a dictionary would be of benefit?

  19. libertariangirl

    KW__First of all, they get impressed with people whom they think they can win. And, a lot of the leadership goes on and on about acting “professional”, having glossy literature, dressing like a candidate, etc.

    um hello , if you are serious about winning elections all of those things are important arent they?

  20. Gene Berkman

    It is actually fairly common if a third party candidate gets elected to partisan office, for that person to switch to a major party in order to seek re-election. It is discouraging to third party activists, but sometimes a Ron Paul comes along who keeps his principles, regardless of party.

  21. Gregg Jocoy

    Kimberly,

    You have had different experiences that I have had. I have been active in the Green Party since 2000. I had to fight my own state party leadership to engage in a ballot access effort. I have been kept from service on state and national committees by virtue of not getting “enough” votes, without being told in advance that there was a threshold. Sorry, but I do know what it means to be screwed.

    I don’t want to be disdainful, but frankly, your message feels like you are saying “You don’t know about politics. I’m from New York where politics is a contact sport, and you are from the genteel South, so you just don’t understand.”

    Sorry, but regionalism is as bad as racism or sexism.

  22. libertariangirl

    In addition Kimberly not every great activist makes a good candidate . everybody has their forte and just like with the Libs Im certain not every Green , no matter how great an activist , should be running as a candidate.

  23. Trent Hill

    “Trent,

    No one I have seen used the word “outrage”. The word I used, and have seen most often used, is disappointment.

    Perhaps a dictionary would be of benefit?”

    I didn’t claim you, or anyone else, used the word “outrage”, did I pumpkin? I said I didn’t understand the outrage–which is evident in several commenters posts. Now–do you have an arguement against what I actually SAID, or are you going to try to nitpick over something I didn’t say, some more?

    I’m going to assume you won’t respond intelligently to whatever arguements are made, referring to them as “tedious”, like you did in our emails.

  24. Trent Hill

    “You have had different experiences that I have had.”

    And if you’re going to ask someone, sardonically, if they need a dictionary–at least use spellcheck in the following comments.

  25. Gregg Jocoy

    Trent,

    I depend on my computer to check my spelling. It did not indicate that I made any errors. Perhaps I did, but I don’t find them.

    I do find you tedious. I think you are a bully. You and your employer own the site and are free to do with it what you will, but that does not mean that I have to put up with your crap.

    Clear enough?

  26. Gregg Jocoy

    Besides, I suggested the dictionary not because of your spelling, but precisely because you apparently don’t understand what “outrage” means.

    No one has expressed outrage. We have expressed disappointment. they are not one and the same.

  27. Kimberly Wilder

    Gregg,

    Wow! You read a lot into my comments. I said I was from NY, because I was identifying where my particular experience is.

    I lived in Roanoke, Virginia for 10 years. And, I even read Gone with the Wind (and liked it.)

    So…anyway, that part was not what I meant at all…adjusting my shawl…

    But, I know I do get condescending sometimes when I write to you. Even though I like you very much, I see you as naive. Because, most of those people at national suck. And, you seem to like them. So, I guess, to preserve my own vision of the universe, I have to think that I just have more experience than you.

    Peace,
    Kimberly

  28. Kimberly Wilder

    Libertarian Girl:

    Well, the point is this: In the whole, big country, there are thousands of political races to run.

    And, no party as small as the greens -especially a party which does not take corporate funds – could ever dream of filling every slot with a “professional” or “likely to win” candidate. So, yeah, people should be supportive and accepting of activists who want to run in their local races to draw attention to the party, raise issues in the public discourse, exercise their rights in a democracy, etc.

    If you are going to have a party like the Green Party that says it is for “grassroots democracy”, then Mr. Big Wig from the state or national should not try to sabotage ANYONE who wants to run in their own local races as a candidate. Especially if neither Mr. Big Wig or the state or national party have another candidate in mind for the party to run.

  29. Kimberly Wilder

    By the way, here is my T.S. Eliot allusion:

    —-If one, settling a pillow or throwing off a shawl,
    And turning toward the window, should say:
    “That is not it at all,
    That is not what I meant, at all.”—-

    😉

    See, Gregg, you inspire me, even when we disagree…

  30. libertariangirl

    again , I say there are some folks who should never run . like say the guy who spit on the reporters face( LP Candidat from Cali I think , long time ago)
    anyone remember his name?

    Sometimes it is indeed better to leave an election spot unfilled rather than run someone who will cause embarrassment and undo hard work coinvincing people we arent kooks

  31. libertariangirl

    KW__But, I know I do get condescending sometimes when I write to you. Even though I like you very much, I see you as naive. Because, most of those people at national suck. And, you seem to like them. So, I guess, to preserve my own vision of the universe, I have to think that I just have more experience than you.

    me __ and Kimberly could never be wrong

    geez girl your ego is really starting to get on my nerves.

  32. Kimberly Wilder

    Libertarian Girl:

    I have known a couple of people in the Green Party who I thought probably should not run. And, here is what I did:

    I did not help them to petition.

    That is the democratic thing to do.

    If we are all to be about the business of ballot access and people’s right in a democracy to associate, join third parties, and get on the ballot, we do not need to judge people, and then wield the power of an organization to knock them down before the public votes or the duopoly takes their shots.

    And, anyway, the world is full of kooks. Half of them run the world. Every once in awhile we need to let some new kooks get in.

    If you are truly a person that does hard work, than if a “kook” tries to run in your district, you don’t have to attack the person or have the party rule against them. All you have to do is run for office yourself and/or support a better candidate.

  33. Kimberly Wilder

    LG: –geez girl your ego is really starting to get on my nerves.–

    Me: Oh, well, politics needs healthy egos, or no one would ever run for office.

    (And, you should think about this – is what you are calling “nerves” really just your own ego?????)

    Ohmmmmmmmm…….

  34. mdh

    Running regular people who are not career politicians should be one of our greatest strengths, not a weakness. They just need professional campaign management by folks like myself.

  35. Run Candidates

    The Green who was elected to state legislature in California in 1999 also switched to become a Democrat too. This is definitely not the end of the world for the Green Party. In fact, by 2012, a Green presidential candidate will probably get a large number of progressive votes after four years of Obama’s center-right presidency.

  36. mdh

    I don’t think Deb has an ego. She’s just chill. Cool person in the real world, too, even more so than online.

  37. libertariangirl

    Kimberly , in the LPNevada we elect our candidates at convention , NOTA is a valid choice . If there is someone I feel will do more than harm than good, then it is my discretion and my responsibility to vote my conscience .

    We have a “green zone” caucus of candidates and LPN members who agree quality is better than quantity when it comes to candidates and we all agree to vote down those who we feel would undo hard work.

    Incidentally , the Vote for a Change caucus was created by Duensing . Weird isnt it?

    I do appreciate and take notice of the all inclusive , everybdys equal mindset you carry , it is much better attitude then the other far end of the spectrum .

    however there are just sometimes when you gotta say NO

  38. Richard Winger

    The Green who was elected to the California legislature in 1999, Audie Bock, did not become a Democrat. She ran for re-election in 2000 as an Independent candidate.

  39. Kimberly Wilder

    Hey, mdh,

    Wow! I don’t think you have sisters…

    You should never get in the middle of two women arguing, discussing, critiquing, playing, or whatever it is.

    😉

    Because, you never know what it is!

    A healthy discussion is fun.

    And, since neither one of us is running for office right now, seems like the best time to philosophize….

    It is not the first time I have been told I have an ego. I think the first time was actually…hmmmm…I think 6th grade…

  40. Gregg Jocoy

    I tend to agree that running candidates is a good idea, even if they are not “perfect” in my mind. We have run folks here in SC who were not my personal cup of tea, but so long as they don’t cause us embarrassment, misrepresent the Green Party or disregard our key values, I am OK with that. No one needs to pass a “Gregg test” to win anything but my personal vote.

    That said, Mr. Cavlan was beaten out of his attempt to run as a Green, in part, for refusing to disavow IRA terrorist tactics. Is that going too far? Reference here.

  41. libertariangirl

    but so long as they don’t cause us embarrassment, misrepresent the Green Party or disregard our key values, I am OK with that. No one needs to pass a “Gregg test” to win anything but my personal vote.

    duh , thats what im saying , causing embarrassment , disregarding the platform etc

  42. Trent Hill

    “I do find you tedious. I think you are a bully. You and your employer own the site and are free to do with it what you will, but that does not mean that I have to put up with your crap.

    Clear enough?”

    I’m a bully because I disagree with the dissapointment and anger expressed by some commenters here and reasoned that Richard Carroll was just as good on policy with a “D” beside his name as a “G”? That reflects thoughtfulness over partisanship–not exactly the trait of a bully.

    You are right that I own the site and am free to do with it what I will. So are you, because I don’t censor posts. However, on one point you are wrong. If you’re going to frequent my website and respond nastily to my posts, then you DO have to put up with my “crap” (i.e., well reasoned arguements that you find “tedious”).

  43. Trent Hill

    “I depend on my computer to check my spelling. It did not indicate that I made any errors. Perhaps I did, but I don’t find them.”

    You either made a spelling or grammar error, both of which you should be checking for before suggesting someone consult a dictionary. If you can’t find the spelling or grammar error yourself, perhaps you should not be loaning out that dictionary so much, aye?

  44. Gregg Jocoy

    libertariangirl, my comment was a general one, not directed at correcting you.

    Each state and local has to make up their own mind about who is a fit for their ballot line, support, cash and other resources. In that regard I agree 100% with Kimberly. No one who is not personally involved in the local group should try to influence their decisions.

    If the Arkansas Green Party decides to support Richard Carroll in a re-election bid, that’s their business. I think it would be foolhardy to the max, but it’s not my oar to row.

  45. Trent Hill

    “No one has expressed outrage. We have expressed disappointment. they are not one and the same.”

    I didn’t realize you spoke for everyone here, Jocoy. I’ll be sure to alert the readership.

    Certainly some of the commenters who posted here have made statements which could be read with some level of anger or outrage. Nonetheless, my statement wasn’t directed specifically at you–so i’m not sure why you feel the need to claim you can speak to everyone’s feelings on the issue?

  46. Trent Hill

    To be clear: In both of the arguements we have had, Jocoy, I have not spoken to you first. You addressed me first, and both times with vitriol. The bully seems to be pointing fingers.

  47. libertariangirl

    No one who is not personally involved in the local group should try to influence their decisions.***

    my bad , did i misinterpret , Id freak the hell out if someone from LP National tried to tell us not to run someone we had approved .

    I completely agree noone outside the local party members should be making local party decisions of any sort.

  48. sunshinebatman

    With Obama consolidating the Democrat party into a one-party Communist dictatorship; many Greens are feeling much more welcome.

  49. Trent Hill

    “Please forgive my transgressions Mr. Hill. I’ll try to be good from now on.”

    Sarcasm doesn’t make you any more right. It is a cheap and cowardly exit to an arguement you know you have lost. I could not care less if you agree or disagree with me or not, but try to keep the debate about the issues–rather than resorting to ad hominems. And if, god forbid, you must resort to ad hominems and other logical fallacies in order to debate–at least stick around and take your whipping like a man. You are fifty for God’s sake, act like it.

  50. Trent Hill

    “And, I have a life. I don’t care to waste it in pissing contests with you.”

    Then don’t make rude ad hominem comments and claim to speak for others. I guess the implication here is that I don’t have a life because I’m here commenting on this blog, which im paid to administer. Meanwhile, you’re spending your leisure time here–who has a life?
    Secondly, if this is a pissing contest, it is one which you started. You spoke, quite rudely, to me first. I’ve no interest in a pissing contest, only in drawing attention to your juvenile behavior in an effort to get you to self-correct said behavior.

  51. Trent Hill

    “I’m not really sure what all Trent did to earn this ire.”

    I’d be happy to clarify for you. Nothing.

    Gregg thinks I am a “corporatist” and “capitalist”–so he seems to think it is ohk to treat me rudely. For the record, I am very anti-corporation (which is government sponsorship of business) and have never embraced the term “capitalism” (I prefer free market).
    Meanwhile, despite all of Gregg’s petulant behavior, I’ve kept him at IPR as a blogger. I’m quite sure the opposite would be true if our positions were traded.

  52. Michael Cavlan

    OK Folks,

    Now we see how the real Greenie Meanies work to lie and smear people.

    Greg Jocoy just put out a blatant lie about my loosing the GP endorsement because of my “unwillingness to disavow IRA terrorism.”

    That statement is blatantly false, a bold faced lie.

    Here is what REALLY happened. When I was running for the Minnesota House as a Green in 2002, I was QUESTIONED about my position on the IRA and terrorism. The person who brought the concern forward was a Green from India who was active in the Minneapolis Green Party for a while.

    I told them that I was opposed to terrorism or any acts of violence but just like northern Ireland Human rights activist Bernadette Devlin, I would never condemn those who choose that path.

    You see Mr Jacoy, I have lived in northern Ireland for 15 years, in a dirt poor Catholic housing project and witnessed the daily realities that would make one choose that path. So, like St Bernie (as we call call her) I would oppose their ACTIONS while understanding their MOTIVES. As an aside, I have had friends and family who have been killed and tortured in that part of the world.

    The Green Party membership liked my answer and so I won the endorsement. I then lost the Green party Primary race to a former Democratic party mayor of the town who ran as a Green and beat me in the primary race.We never seen him as a Green again, it must be noted.

    The piece you get your info is from a man called Ken Avidor. He created and fixes the wikipedia piece because he is a Democrat who HATES anything and everything about the Green Party.

    Then in 2006, I ran for US Senate in Minnesota with the Green Party endorsement. In fact at the GP Convention, I won the highest percentage of supporters, 86%. Even though there was an organized attempt to block ANYONE from running any statewide races.

    As an aside, I ran as a Peace candidate who was promoting using the northern Ireland Peace process as a working template for non-violent conflict resolution. Not to mention a Registered Nurse running on the Single Payer platform. Given the issue of terrorism we all faced, I was trying to promote a viable SOLUTION to terrorism.

    Yet the local a corporate media refused to even mention my name in all their articles. I include the Nation magazine where I met with John Nichols TWICE, gave him my card and both times he wrote articles on the US Senate race where he and the Nation also refused to even mention my name or our campaign.

    This was, of course mirrored by Aaron Dixon and EVERY OTHER Green US Senate candidate all over the country.

    Add to this being attacked by some folks in my own party. Like for example the Chair of the St Paul and his friends called me a media whore and worse. It was unbelievable. especially when there was no one else willing to run for US Senate as a Green. These people did not have the same ire or attack for any DEMOCRATIC PARTY candidate, it must be noted.

    So go to hell Mr Jacoy, I have met your kind all over. It is precisely because the GP is filled with mean spirited, vindictive people like yourself that good, decent people like Kimberley and myself have left.

    Like I told you all repeatedly, you were warned about this happening. I tried to warn you that if the GP continues to smear, attack and deliberately disenfranchise Nader supporters and others that we would in fact flee and your little party would become a gardening club party. That was the positive input we put to you all on a regular basis.

    Instead, you choose the Greenie Meanie attack mode. So go screw yourself, all of you. You folks are cowards. The big unspoken here is that I strongly suspect that what has driven this in the few remaining GP’s left is fear at being yelled at by angry Democrats. That is why the GP will not run real campaigns and will sabotogue any who try and build a real campaign. At least be honest and support NOTA, stop pretending that the National GP wants to run campaigns.

    THAT is why I work so tirelessly. To expose you Greenie Meanies and not let the next generation of activist who want to build something apart from the pro-war, corporate corrupted two party system, waste any valuable time or effort..

    Trent Hill, let me put you straight. Gregg Jacoy and his ilk always go to ad hominem attacks. It is all they have.

    Greg Jocoy is a coward, plain and simple.

  53. Michael Cavlan

    BTW

    Since I am a media whore, here is a moment of shameless self promotion.

    Me speaking at the End The Fed Rally in Minneapolis last week.

  54. Joe in California

    No matter how egotistical any of you are, noone is more egotistical than I am. I thought this was a joke at first, just like when I heard Specter switched yesterday. I then thought about how I would laugh and laugh and laugh at you third party losers, about to lose your only seat in the legislature of any state, but surprisingly, you’re not weaping as much as I thought. I still laugh though. By the way, in the arguments going on here, I endorse Kimberley and Trent. Thanks again Trent for having a completely open and free blog with no sensorship.
    But I still laugh. This has proved I am right all along. With Specter coming from the right, and Carroll from the left, the Catholic Trotskyist New World Order is approaching faster than even I thought possible.

    Glory to God in the highest and peace to God’s people on Earth.
    Bwahhahahahahahahahahahhahahehehehehehhehahhahahhahhahhahhahhahahhaha!!!!!!!!
    Amen.

  55. Catholic Trotskyist

    In my excitement, I revealed my other identity I have used occasionally on this blog. Sorry!

  56. sunshinebatman

    CT – Are you concerned that Obama’s blood heritage is Stalinist rather than Trotskyist?

  57. Catholic Trotskyist

    No, Trotsky always has been and always will be Barack Obama’s guardian angel, along with Saint Thomas, Jesus’s disciple, and an unknown other preson .There is not a stalinist drop in Obama’s blood.

  58. sunshinebatman

    You’re right. Both of his parents were Trotskyists; and his mother studied under the Jesuits in Lebanon.

    Do you ever worry Obama may be more of an agent of London than Rome?

  59. Kimberly Wilder

    Wow.

    Two things shocked me and set me back on this thread:

    1. Trent said something which made me think he likes the fact that an independent candidate would switch to a major party to keep the winning streak. (I am more spiritual about belonging to the club of third party members, I guess.) and

    2. Gregg Joccoy was accused of being mean by someone other than a frustrated ex-green. (And, I have to say, I did not even read the whole thread or Gregg’s original comments.)

    I hope everyone can take a deep breath and have patience.

    Sometimes, the stars are aligned wrong – like when Mercury is in retrogade – and communications are tense and weird. I have to believe that is part of the pissing contest part of this thread, which seems so weird to me from both sides of the back and forth.

    The fact that someone signed their post in error is another “oops” as happens in a Mercury Retrogade. And, for me, a spelling mistake in a headline that I could not see or understand until my husband read it back to me.

    Also, I truly do feel that everyone is not realizing that when the season changes, people get busy and more tense. In this case, with Spring, many of us have been holed up for the winter, and now thrust outdoors, getting some sun poisoning, and fighting to breathe with all the plants releasing their pollen which gives so many people allergies.

    In New York, and I guess 1 other states, the media is trying to scare us about Swine Flu. It is working for me just a little on my nerves.

    Anyway, I so much respect the work of Trent and Gregg. And, I find the argument so odd. So, I hope it is resolved, or absolved, or melted away with the new Spring.

  60. Kimberly Wilder

    re: Accusations of IRA terrorism stuff…

    Okay, now here I go diving into the argument. But, I hope I can be as abstract and not personal as possible. Because, I know it is much bigger than the people on this thread.

    I think it was a piercing, off-subject, piece of old propaganda that still has fire in it to bring up Michael Cavlan and some line that he supports terrorism in Northern Ireland or something.

    And, I think that the person who used that line, probably believes it, to the extent that they are still in the culture of a national third party, where saboteurs, and duopoly infiltrators, and government plants, constantly work to create discord among us. Because, there are constantly nasty odd rumors like that about people who are too bold, or too successful, or too independent.

    I have seen that a lot when people try to run for Steering Committee at GP-US. It usually seems like the clique at national knows who they want for SC. And, the machinations to get that person elected are shadowy and have great force behind them.

    I believe some of it is the think-tanks, funded by other countries and people from other parties – who do some of this. For instance, one of the think-tanks who gets a table at green annual meetings and swirls around the GP has someone on who they brag was an
    “advisor to Nixon”. Well, yeah, I bet that if I try to run an internal campaign for SC, and someone there is having lunch with an advisor to Nixon and asks for a strategy to beat me, I might be at some disadvantage.

    Taking comments Cavlan said once, and making them a thriving, living, permanent albatross around his neck, sounds like the kind of stuff that comes from the bad energy at national.

    More often, at the GP, they just use the simple one: Israel.

    When one of my friends tried to run for SC, he had a name that sounded Jewish. But, he was really of Dutch background, and an atheist. When he did a great job running for SC and seemed to have hope to win, there were horrible rumors planted in the days leading up to the election that he was a Zionist. We love to torment him that he is an atheist, Dutch, Zionist.

    (Just think how people who are in politics professionally, who the duopoly or government plant to thwart us, who they probably have charts of just the right day to drop an accusation, or rumor, or gossip so the candidate can not respond in time.)

    And, the Israel thing can go the other way. And another woman at national was constantly thwarted because they said she was pro-Palestinian. (And, because the attackers are so clever, she was one spreading the Zionist rumors about my friend in the election mentioned above. But, they both respected each others’ work and were friendly later. These election bombs only have to work well for a couple of days.)

    Then, there is the woman, K, who they spread the rumor the day before the convention she was a “bomb thrower.” It went around like a burning coal of a rumor, the same words with no explanation.

    When people can’t learn to recognize this crap – either by having seen it repeated and seeing the pattern, or by intuition, or by understanding the import of the power we hold by playing on a national playing field – I just wonder. How do our little third party efforts ever thrive?

    I apologize to Mike for having to experience a propaganda bomb, thrown from someone who probably shouldn’t want to defeat him at all. But, is part of a poisonous culture where the propaganda bombs have their own life.

    I do wish that Michael Cavlan wasn’t so pointed against the Green Party now. But, do it, too. I feel it, too. It is like ranting at an ex, because you once trusted then, and secretly, you believe they could change…

    I wish the Greens that were here applied non-violent communication skills. If someone could just listen to part of what we were saying, and acknowledge it, maybe even learn from it, wouldn’t that be cool.

    Instead, it is the pattern just like within the GP. One person attacks, and that gives the other people the sense that they should attack back.

    Wouldn’t it be wise, powerful and productive is someone could break the cycle…

    That is how you do it with non-violent communication. You just decide to be the person who takes the higher ground, starts forgiving and listening, and makes the change…

  61. Lou Novak

    I’ll be the person who takes the higher ground. I’ll forgive Kimberly and Michael for their constant axe-grinding and turning everything into a critique of Green party leadership. I’ll even forgive Trent for being such an asshole.

    Now I’ll start listening

  62. Ross Levin

    I’m siding with CT and Green Ferret here. This thread is disgusting. Maybe this incessant bickering and whining is why the highest elected Green in the nation is a state legislator, and now you guys don’t even have that. Wow. At first I was excited that Una Carroll commented, but now I’m just embarrassed.

    Sorry if I offended anyone, I had to get that off my chest.

  63. anonymous

    Here’s a solution – post anonymously. That way, discussions about third party strategy, candidate recruitment, or whatever will have to be had on the merits of the arguments, and not devolve into “you must be wrong because you said something in a debate in Minnesota in 2002” or “you are clearly biased because you sometimes talk in a friendly manner with people on the National Committee…”.

    If people have beefs with the organization of the Green Party nationally, that’s fine. It might even have something to do with the current thread of discussion. But if we stuck to having those debates instead of “he said/she said/he did/she did/he is friends with/she is friends with” we might be able to make progress on an issue without having the same interpersonal conflict every time a new story is posted.

    -Anonymous

  64. Gregg Jocoy

    Kimberly wrote, in part,

    I wish the Greens that were here applied non-violent communication skills.

    Kimberly, is it not true that violent communication techniques as you call them were exactly the sort of thing that has gotten some Greens kicked off of internal communication lists? You objected when a member was removed for abusive language, but somehow believe that here we must not do what you supported others doing on lists trying to do much more vital business than what happens here. I honestly don’t understand. Why is it OK for someone to tell a member of the steering committee to go fuck themselves, but not OK to call Calvan what he is, an IRA apologist?

    As to Cavlan’s assertion that I am cowardly, well, I have offered to have him on Green Party Watch Radio. He was told that GPW Radio is on Sundays from 3 to 4 PM East Coast time, and yet he posted here that we had tentatively agreed for him to be on the program on Tuesday, May 5th. We had no such agreement.

    Even so, I wrote him twice yesterday to finalize plans with him. I even went so far as to set aside two hours of Blog Talk Radio’s time on the Tuesday in question for him to come on the show and vent spleen. I have not heard a peep from him. I told him that he has until 10PM Sunday night to respond, after which I will relinquish the time at BTR. It is not fair to hold a spot we will not be using.

    The full hour would be his to use as he sees fit. I will make no effort to bring GP supporters on the show. I will make no attempt to censor his or anyone else’s speech. I have listed the show as “adults only” in anticipation of his normal rhetoric.

    Still, he has not replied. In fact, he has made statements here about the show even though he has not contacted me once since the original offer was made.

    I fully expect him to fail to confirm, and then moan and complain long and loud about how cowardly I am for refusing him access to my Internet radio show…which he could easily set up for himself, just as he could a blog. Instead he elects to run about pissing and moaning on blogs that others have invested time and money to set up and build.

    Show your strength of character Cavlan. Here or be email, confirm that you will be on the show or that you will not.

  65. Trent Hill

    “Trent said something which made me think he likes the fact that an independent candidate would switch to a major party to keep the winning streak. (I am more spiritual about belonging to the club of third party members, I guess.) ”

    I am a pragmatist–and care nothing for parties, major or minor. If Richard Carroll is an ally to Greens with a G beside his name, he is just as much of an ally with a D beside his name. Here are the options.
    1.) Richard Carroll stays a Green, but loses. A Democrat takes his seat and is likely NOT Green-friendly.
    2.) Richard Carroll switches to Democratic and win. A Green-friendly legislator stays in the seat.

    I see no real conflict. The choice is obvious.

  66. Erik Geib

    Trent,

    Not that I’m one to speak (what, with all the typos I put forth on this site), but if you’re going to chastise someone for not using spell-check, perhaps you should spell ‘argument’ correctly. :p That being said, I tend to agree with much of what you’ve argued in terms of party labels. If he still votes the same way, I don’t see what the big deal is. However, if he turns his back on the issues that most affect third parties and independents (i.e. ballot access, debate access, gerrymandering, plurality voting, campaign finance, etc.), then I think it’s a problem. For Richard Carroll it’s probably best to have a ‘wait and see’ approach rather than provoke GP ‘outrage’ (:p) or enter into arguments of who’s more loyal to the independent cause.

    That being said, it’s nice to see a Green pissing contest for once after two weeks or so of Libertarian pissing matches.

  67. Gregg Jocoy

    Erik,

    The Greens here are not fighting amongst one another. Cavlan and Kimberly are former Greens. The only Greens, as far as I am aware, are me, Green Ferret, Lou Novak, perhaps “anonymous”, and VAGreen.

    While I won’t presume to say that we are all in agreement on this or any other issue, it is inaccurate to say that we are in conflict. Instead, the conflict is between me and others not in the party.

  68. Gregg Jocoy

    From Fox 16

    Scott McLarty, spokesman for the national Green Party, said the party was disappointed with Carroll’s decision to switch politcal affiliations.

    “Richard Carroll isn’t the first politician whose decision to go Green was based on a ballot line situation, and he probably won’t be the last,” McLarty said. “We thank Richard for helping to put Greens on the map in Arkansas and wish him well.”

  69. KeepItUpFolks

    That’s right – keep it up folks.

    You’ll chip away at any goodwill left between the Green Party and Richard Carroll. He was out there pushing green bills, and there is no indication that he won’t take that experience to the Dems and try to talk some sense into them. With the bitterness I’ve seen on this board, I wouldn’t blame him if he told the GP to kiss his behind. Having had the opportunity to get to see Richard work, however, I strongly suspect he’ll go with what he believes to be the right thing regardless of some bitterness or ingrates in the GP, especially since a lot of these posts are from people who are making judgments from afar. Rather than picking apart someone you do not know and second guessing the local party, it’d do less harm to simply stick noses back in copies of Gone with the Wind or some other stereotypical publication of choice. Or you might reach out to the local GP and offer support. Novel concepts, I’m sure.

  70. Erik Geib

    Gregg,

    I didn’t realize you had to be a party member to be considered a true ‘Green.’ What a disappointment this will be to all my small ‘l’ libertarian friends who I now must tell can no longer call themselves libertarians. How sad.

  71. Gregg Jocoy

    Erik,

    I don’t believe either Kimberly or Cavlan would call themselves Greens at this point, but I will leave that distinction up to them.

    You said that you were glad to see Greens in conflict. All I did was point out that Greens are not in conflict, but former Greens are in conflict, principally with me, as well as some non-Greens.

    I wasn’t making any sort of statement about party purity. I was correcting what I saw as an incorrect assessment of the conflict.

  72. Gregg Jocoy

    I am also not convinced that your “small l” libertarians would care about the earlier debate any more than “small g” greens would care about this one.

    Your post did not refer to Greens as an ideology, but as a party. You specifically used the term “GP”. It is clear in my mind that you were relishing an internal conflict within the Green Party where these was none.

    Again, I am not asserting that any of the others agree with me even 1%, but thus far there has been no conflict between Greens.

  73. Erik Geib

    Gregg,

    I can’t speak for Kimberly or Cavlan either (obviously), but when you say they wouldn’t call themselves ‘Greens’ at this point, do you mean party members or followers of Green ideology?

    Perhaps I should have been more mindful to not use capital ‘G’ or ‘L’ (God forbid!), but the point I made is valid in my eyes nonetheless. Current Greens, former Greens, whatever…. the point is, it’s nice to see people from that end of the spectrum having a pissing match for once instead of the l/Libertarians on this site. Not that I delight in the pleasure of the in-fighting, no… it’s more that I was (momentarily) glad to see someone besides l/Libertarians argue for once in a while.

    I’d advise everyone on here to stop being so sensitive. It continually amazes me how much everyone tries to read into everyone else’s words/intentions, and then (generally) make some ridiculous series of absolute statements in response. And yes, I realize the irony of that largely absolutist summation. :p

  74. Erik Geib

    Gregg,

    I used the term ‘GP’ tongue-in-cheek in a comment to Trent about the supposed ‘outrage’ on this board. I used ‘Greens’ when I made my comment about urination. :p

  75. Anonygreen

    I wish Richard Carroll the best. He went to bat for the Greens once elected on the Green Party line, despite being a Democrat before and a Democrat still. The Greens got a guy in office for almost 6 months and got some good play out of it.

    Message sent: The Green Party can be a way to office under unusual circumstances, brainwashing not required.

    Matt Reichel in Chicago did it as well, but wasn’t elected. How long would he have stayed a Green in Congress if he had been elected?

  76. Kimberly Wilder

    Lou,

    If you want to see me grind my axe against the Green Party, it would be very fun.

    As it is, I am pretty darned polite.

    Especially since I know where all the (metaphorical) bodies are buried, and have lists of old, new and future greens out the whazoo.

    Hasn’t the click told you that the current strategy is to ignore me and not rile me up?…

    😉
    Kimberly Wilder

  77. Levon Helm

    It’s all about putting Green Party candidates on the ballot.

    Every race. Local. State. Federal.

    The more Green Party candidates on the ballot, the more get elected.

    Let us wish Mr. and Mrs. Carroll well.

    We in the Green Party, respectfully thank you for your service.

  78. Bryan

    When comments pass 50, you know there has to be a “disagreement”.

    R. Carroll has every right to switch parties, however, I am sad to see this. I think everyone knows that he used the GP line to get on the ballot, and maybe/maybe not took donations from corporations and/or PAC’s.

    He ran as a Green candidate, was elected, and served at least some time as a Green in the legislature. In my opinion, he made a commitment and he should have fulfilled his commitment by serving as a Green for the duration of his term. If…at re-election time he wanted to switch parties…fine…I guess I see this as a moral issue, those who voted for him Because he was Green, were duped…

    Either way, what he has done is not illegal, and he did get elected as a Green, and nobody can take that result from the GP.

    An aside…I would be very interested in hearing a radio show with Gregg, Michael, and Kimberly (and others?) not for the fight that might ensue, but rather because I think at the end of the day these people have a lot more common ground than disputed territory. I think it would end up being a very informative and possibly “fence mending” endeavor.

  79. Kimberly Wilder

    Hey, Bryan,

    Thanks for interjecting some valuable words and your thoughts about the radio show.

    I have mixed feelings about a radio show. But, I had decided that I would not participate. A. I always operate better in writing than on-the-spot verbally and B. When you are “correct” and “cranky”, it is easier to prove yourself with paperwork – verbally just gets into “he said”, “she said” and C. Almost everything I have to say about the GP that can be said publicly, I have posted somewhere with thoughtful commentary.

    It might still be interesting for Michael Cavlan to go on GPW Radio.

    Also, note that I have tons in commone with Gregg Joccoy. And, before and now after I left the Green Party I have supported his valuable project and considered him a friend and colleague. I tend to think the late crankiness is related to something at national – maybe the desperation that they have no money and have to keep begging.

    Or, maybe someone at GP-US is mouthing off about me again. I know they can make almost anyone sound dangerous. I wonder if I am pro-Palestinian, pro-Israel, crazy, racist, playing the raced card, a dangerous spammer, or pro-IRA this time??????

    I will just go back to grinding my axe, posting pro-Cynthia McKinney articles at wilderside, and pro-Green Party articles at IPR.

  80. Kimberly Wilder

    Re: Non-violent communication, etc.

    (At the bottom are Gregg Joccoy’s words I am partly responding to.)

    There is a huge difference between allowing people to speak freely and boldly as authors on a web-site, as commenters on a web-site, as citizens in a government, and as elected reps on the list-serve of the party they are appointed to. I am not sure which stance Gregg means I took, but I don’t think that the Steering Committee or Executive Committee of a political body should pre-screen or censor the posts of elected reps.

    I have asked people on those lists to be more kind and civil.

    And, I have asked people here to be extra kind and civil.

    Asking does not control people or take away their rights.

    I understand that Michael Cavlan has been a less than harmonious communicator here. And, I have noted that anyone who would like to take the absolute high ground could try to respond to him with sincere questions, sincere listening, and compassion, and we might all learn something. That statement does not mean Michael is more wrong or right. Only that Non-Violent Communication works, even if only one part is applying it.

    Also, when Gregg tells the story, his way, of Cavlan being an IRA apologist, that is just odd, and kind of “off-topic, unfair fighting.” Like if you are arguing with your spouse about who should wash the dishes, and your spouse brings up some horrible (and possibly untrue) event from the past. It has nothing to do with the concerns at hand.

    Gregg wrote:

    –Kimberly, is it not true that violent communication techniques as you call them were exactly the sort of thing that has gotten some Greens kicked off of internal communication lists? You objected when a member was removed for abusive language, but somehow believe that here we must not do what you supported others doing on lists trying to do much more vital business than what happens here. I honestly don’t understand. Why is it OK for someone to tell a member of the steering committee to go fuck themselves, but not OK to call Calvan what he is, an IRA apologist?—

  81. Gregg Jocoy

    A quick Google search will find dozens of written statements by Cavlan himself, most notably at IndyMedia, in which he makes excuses for and generally supports the IRA. Not surprisingly to me, he was almost universally assailed by the people on that forum, with the exception of one or two “Can’t we all just get along” statements.

    I have no basic problem with people using whatever language they care to use. Absolutely no one has told me anything about you Kimberly, positive or negative. I feel sure that anyone who understands me would also understand that attacking you would not be something I would respond well to. I’m not saying that I don’t talk with people who feel that way, just that they know how I feel and keep their opinions to themselves.

    I’m not particularly hard to read.

    My point was that you ask us to behave less aggressively towards one another. I have seen many examples or aggression in the GP. The ones that are out in the open and plain for all to see don’t bother me nearly as much as the passive-aggressive actions of those who would smile at you while cutting you down behind your back…and I mean “you” in the general sense.

    I again note that Cavlan has refused to reply here or via email to my request for establishing final details for his visit on GPW Radio. He has until Sunday. If he doesn’t get up the courage to contact me I hope he will at least have the decency to stop complaining about being censored from a privately owned and operated website, especially when a monkey with ten minutes of training could set up his own. I assume a RN is at least that bright, so it may just be …well, you fill in the blank.

  82. Anonygreen

    Dammit! I wanted to be the 100th comment!

    By the way, what’s so bad about the International Reading Association (IRA)?

  83. libertariangirl

    Is there something wrong with liking Irish Patriots who want England and other unwarranted government the hell outa their business .
    I like the IRA , what the hells wrong with that.

  84. VAGreen

    Of course, it’s disappointing that the Green Party wasn’t able to keep Richard Carroll. However, he really brought greater attention and credibility to the Arkansas Greens by winning a seat in the State Legislature as a Green. He also got a good ballot access bill passed, and at least tried to get other ballot and debate access bills through the Legislature.

    We need to build a stronger party infrastructure that can get more Greens elected and keep them in office. The Green Party of Arkansas is taking some important steps in the right direction.

  85. Gregg Jocoy

    VAGreen,

    I just had an hour long phone conversation with Mark Swaney, the Arkansas GP’s Press Secretary and will be reporting on that conversation tomorrow afternoon at Green Party Watch. I hope you’ll drop by to read the results of the conversation.

  86. Kimberly Wilder

    Gregg –

    I think Souter put a kink in your news cycle…

    😉

    Oh, well, might drop GPW anyway….

  87. Trent Hill

    “Is there something wrong with liking Irish Patriots who want England and other unwarranted government the hell outa their business .
    I like the IRA , what the hells wrong with that.”

    Well, the problem is that they sometimes target civilians and that they are socialists. But if the IRA would only attack military and government institutions–they would be alot better. With that said, I support their efforts at self-determination.

  88. Kimberly Wilder

    Re: Trent Hill’s comments about and the original “charges” against Michael…

    This is where I see how really subtle, careful propaganda aimed at sabotaging someone who is speaking up works.

    I don’t even know the whole story that much.

    But, I don’t care if Michael Cavlan wrote some theoretical comments on the IRA. And, I am not convinced that he wrote things in support of it at all. (Because, I don’t have my whole life to chase after old stories posted by greens who want to attack ex-greens trying to find a new path.)

    But, the accusation is so interesting, flamboyant, and emotionally charged, it has taken on a life of its own. So, that Trent, who has little reason to care about the possible, passed theoretical writings of someone here who is not presently a candidate, not presently a writer, not an elected official, nor someone in Trent’s own party at all, is now arguing the fine points of terrorism in a way that seems associated with the accused.

    That is the value of imaginative and careful propaganda. That is what happens inside the Green Party any time someone tries to speak up, or, run for Steering Committee without permission of the clique and the foreign government/major-party funded think-tanks.

    This time it is IRA. Next time it will be Israel again. If you want to speak up and note that the leadership of the Green Party has problems, you better make sure you never wrote anything interesting in your life. It will be used against you.

  89. Sean Scallon

    In other words Rep. Caroll is switching parties for the same reasons Sen. Specter is switching parties, political survival.

    Enjoy being lost in the crowd.

  90. Michael Cavlan

    Greg Jacoy

    I had to think for a while about being on your radio show. Initialy I was leaning towards no, not worth the time and effort and then you just had to put your comment in.

    So, I am in. let us work on this, understanding that we have to work around my Nursing work schedule. We Nurses do not have a Monday-Friday 7 am -5 pm type of schedule.

    One hour show. OK?

  91. Michael Cavlan

    Lou Novak.

    Well thank you for “forgiving us” and even being willing now to listen.

    Of course as the saying goes, this is a perfect example of way too little, way too late. The time to listen was right around the Resolution 269 I think. Where Kat Woods and others had worked for two years in consensus fashion, crafting and compromising with Greg Gerritt and Company on the BRPP.

    Only after having all the compromises and issues worked out in that Committee, have Greg Gerritt, Hugh Esco and the rest immediately attack the resolution they claimed to support.

    That right there was your moment to listen.

    If you are simply standing up, in principle for what you view as a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise people (Nader supporters), violation of Grassroots Democracy and sabotage any real ability to move forward then there is no need for any forgiveness.

    So you can turn your own forgiveness elsewhere. I will let you decide where that should be.

  92. Gregg Jocoy

    While Cavlan is correct that there were actions taken by Esco, Gerrett and any number of other Green leaders in relation to the issues he raised, and many others too, the fact is, I don’t see Kat Woods coming here or elsewhere to spill bile and invective out over issues that happened five years ago now.

    I have expanded my offer to Cavlan. He can come onto the program any time between 6 and 9 PM EST any day he chooses, so long as he makes a choice by Sunday at 10PM.

    Kimberly, While I appreciate your readership, I don’t believe GPW falls of rises on your links, nor the links here. I have not done anything for which I feel I need apologize. If you feel that what we have to offer at GPW is of no value, I certainly don’t expect you to read it.

    By the by, the results of my hour long discussion with Mark Swaney, spokesperson for the Arkansas Green Party, are now posted here.

  93. Gregg Jocoy

    I just realized that I may have created the impression that I believe Kimberly is the sort of person who says nice things to your face and then says negative things behind your back. I did not intend to create that impression. That is not my experience.

    My point was that I prefer angry honest language to false polite language, and don’t understand why she, or anyone, would object to frank disagreements here or elsewhere. We are, after all, adults, at least chronologically. 😉

  94. Kimberly Wilder

    Gregg said…

    Kimberly, While I appreciate your readership, I don’t believe GPW falls of rises on your links, nor the links here. I have not done anything for which I feel I need apologize. If you feel that what we have to offer at GPW is of no value, I certainly don’t expect you to read it.

    Gregg, we are just not communicating lately. I mean, I can’t figure out where you are coming from on this. Was it something I said, or something you came up with? I am confused.

    I wonder if it is because I suggested that your excellent story about Arkansas and Richard Carroll might be overshadowed (I mean, in the big world, not by me or IPR or something) by the fact that Souter made the political news of the decade by saying he will retire…

    Oh, well…

  95. Rebekah Kennedy

    The Green Party of Arkansas has nothing but respect for Richard Carroll. We are very pleased with the work he has done with us. We are sorry to see him go, but we wish him luck.

    Rebekah Kennedy

  96. Trent Hill

    “Gregg, we are just not communicating lately.”

    Gregg just seems to be an angry guy, full of false accusations and short on any real knowledge of whom he’s attempting to lambast.

  97. Andy

    “Rebekah Kennedy // May 4, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    The Green Party of Arkansas has nothing but respect for Richard Carroll. We are very pleased with the work he has done with us. We are sorry to see him go, but we wish him luck.

    Rebekah Kennedy”

    Rebekah Kennedy achieved quite an impressive feat for a minor party candidate herself by getting 22% in a US Senate race. It was a race where it was just her vs. one major party candidate, but that’s still impressive.

  98. Les Evenchick

    After having seen a link to this site by a message from Kimberly on racism I decided to see whats going on here.

    A some of you know I am currently a delegate from Louisiana to the GPUS NC. I am considered a disruptor by some in the “leadership” and a saboteur by Mr. Phil Hucklenberry of the steering committe. Yet I have been making progress in getting the GPUS NC to start tackling issues of internal democracy.

    We just passed a resolution providing for on-line lections of steering committee members – before , only those who could afford to attend in person annual meetings could vote for SC members.

    And the International Committe, which for years refused to folow GPUS Bylaws is finally being called to account. While I am a fan of Michael Cavlan and Kimberly Wilder, I wish they had not quit the GPUS when they did.

    I am often frustrated by the anti-green attitudes of the almost controlling faction of the GPUS but I look to my fellow NC delegates who also want a real grassroots democratic green party for inspiration.

    Maybe my efforts will fail, but I won’t quit before all options are tried.

    Now as to being green. Most greens do not even belong to GPUS affiliated state parties. But, the almost controlling faction would like to believe that they represent all greens .

    On the IRA, whats wrong with suporting the IRA,

    the IRA “terrorists” were a small but influential section of the IRA as a whole. The Bristish Govt have been the initiating terrorists in all this.

    One can understyand the motivations for what i call defensive “terrorism” without supporting such actions.

    Get the British out of Northern ireland and the locals will resolve their own problems. iI visited and traveled through N. I. in 1980.

  99. mdh

    The British Empire has been responsible for plenty of misery over the past centuries. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict was almost entirely the fault of the British, who didn’t want European jews flooding into their mainland after the end of WWII. Most concentration camp survivors who no longer had European homes to return to were shipped out to the British colony in the middle east.

  100. Les Evenchick

    The British also aggravated problems by appointing a known fringe supporter of Hitler as Grand Mufti of Jerusalem giving his views legitimacy. Before that most natives and jews got along pretty well based on what I have read.

    But the US and other “western” countries also aggravated the problem by not taking in jewish refugees. Only the Dominican Republic accepted jewish refugees.

    In retrospect, ther seems to have been a coordinated plan to force most jewish refugees to Palestine. We can speculate on the reasons but I won’t do so now.

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