Chuck Baldwin at ChuckBaldwinLive.com:
On January 11, 2011, I spoke before a packed house of some 500 people who had braved below zero temperatures to hear me speak here in my adopted hometown of Kalispell, Montana. Among the journalists who were there were the Flathead Beacon’s Dan Testa and the Daily Inter Lake’s Caleb Soptelean.
Soptelean’s report on my speech was published on January 13, 2011, in the Inter Lake. That report can be read at:
Testa’s report was published in the Beacon’s January 17, 2011, edition. See Testa’s report at:
The day after Testa’s report appeared in the Beacon, the paper’s Editor-in-Chief, Kellyn Brown, wrote an opinion column about my speech. His column can be read at:
After reading Kellyn’s column, it was apparent to me that I needed to respond with a column of my own. Kellyn agreed to publish my response, and my column is in the current edition of the Flathead Beacon. See it at:
I believe it would be beneficial for my readers nationwide to read, not only the two newspaper reports and editorial regarding my move to Montana–and the speech I gave on that Tuesday night–but also my response to the Beacon’s Kellyn Brown. Therefore, what follows is the column that I wrote for the Flathead Beacon.
[Start of the column sent to the Flathead Beacon] I want to thank Kellyn Brown for welcoming me to the Flathead Valley with his editorial in the January 28, 2011, Flathead Beacon. I am honored that he would devote an entire editorial to my speech. I wish, however, that Kellyn had been a little more accurate in his assessment of what I said. After all, he is the paper’s Editor-in-Chief.
Kellyn opened his column saying, “Chuck Baldwin moved to Montana a few months ago and has vowed to mold the state into what he thinks it should look like.”
Kellyn, where and when did you hear me say that? My family and I (including 5 heads of households, and a total of 18 people–11 of whom are here now, and 7 more arriving this spring) did not move here to mold the wonderful State of Montana into anything. We came here because we love the mold that makes Montana what it is: an independent, self-reliant, freedom-loving State. If we wanted to mold Montana into someplace else, we would have moved (or stayed) there!
Kellyn then takes great liberty with one statement I made (out of an hour-long speech) by saying, “The litmus test for becoming a ‘real Montanan,’ according to Baldwin, is determined by whether you agree with him.”
No, Kellyn. My litmus test is Montana itself. In my opinion, Montana truly is “The Last Best Place.” This is especially true for people who love independence and liberty. And I think Kellyn’s comments prove that what I said is true.
During the past two years, I have traveled over 60,000 miles to virtually every crack and corner of America. And after seeing this vast “fruited plain” from coast to coast and border to border, I am convinced that we made the right choice to move HERE. What caused our family to uproot ourselves (at great financial cost–even loss, I might add) and come to the Flathead (to stay) is the very spirit that Kellyn himself demonstrates in his column.
Historically, Montanans are not content to be lumped in with every other State or area. Montanans have always been known as rugged individualists. They don’t like people in other states or cities telling them what to do. And that includes Washington, D.C.! It’s not that Montanans are snobbish; they just don’t appreciate people moving here from other places and then trying to turn this State into the State they came from. Hooray! If my family and I had wanted to turn Montana into Florida, we would have stayed in Florida!
Unfortunately, not everyone born in a place appreciates the heritage and principles that make that place unique. For example, not everyone born in America appreciates the independent spirit that founded this great country. Observe how many US citizens work to bring America under the power and influence of the United Nations, or the World Bank, or some other international cabal; or how many people look to Washington, D.C., for all sorts of handouts, etc. Samuel Adams sure had some scathing words to say regarding those who chose to kowtow to the Crown, rather than stand for independence and freedom.
Consider, too, how many people born in Montana chose to leave Montana. Plus, how many people call Montana home only during the summer months? Compare that to the number of people who chose to make Montana their home by migrating here from other states. It takes more than one’s birthplace to make one a genuine contributor to what makes a place unique.
Did not our Lord say basically the same thing when he said of non-relatives, “Behold, my mother and brothers”?
I was born in Indiana, but haven’t lived there since 1971. Am I really a Hoosier?
And, yes, Kellyn, I do believe we have a “church problem.” I think I’m qualified to make that statement. After spending 35 years as a pastor, I’m well acquainted with the cowardice and compromise that is pervasive throughout mainstream “Churchianity.” That’s why Liberty Fellowship, which we established here in Kalispell, is anything but a mainstream church. I don’t blame people for not wanting to go to church. If all I had to choose from were these churches that teach this fallacious Romans 13 “Obey-The-Government-No-Matter-What” nonsense, I wouldn’t want to go either!
Was I proud to receive Ron Paul’s endorsement for President in 2008? Absolutely! Will I be a candidate for governor–or some other office–here in Montana? Many Montanans are urging me to do this, but I am a long way from making my mind up about that.
I want to do whatever I can to help Montanans preserve and maintain their independence and individuality. How I can best do that is yet to be determined. In the meantime, I’m just proud to be a MONTANAN! [End of the column sent to the Flathead Beacon]
To give readers an update: in the six weeks that Liberty Fellowship has been meeting, we have averaged between 150-200 each service, and I can tell you that the spirit of freedom is alive and well at every meeting. I can also tell you that every week we meet or hear about people who have either just moved here, or who are visiting here in preparation for a move, or who have written telling me that they are moving here. EVERY WEEK!
Last Sunday, a man was in the service that had just moved here from Seattle. There is a family attending Liberty Fellowship (LF) that just moved here from Australia. They have been reading my columns for years. Another family attending LF just moved here from Sacramento, California. A couple of weeks ago, two families were here from Michigan: they are moving here. Another family was here from Illinois: they are moving here. A young couple attending LF just moved here from Arizona. The list goes on and on.
I invite newer readers to catch up on my family’s move to Montana by going to this web page:
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?page_id=2243
Obviously, not everyone is going to feel led to move to the State of Montana (And those of us who live in Montana are glad of that!). There is no doubt in my mind, however, that God is putting it in the hearts of tens of thousands (probably hundreds of thousands) of people to prepare for a future (maybe near future) upheaval. An illustration of this feeling of imminent danger is this CNBC report:
http://m.cnbc.com/us_news/41655262
As I have said repeatedly, the only hope for freedom’s survival is for individual states to draw a line in the sand and be willing to stand and fight for their own independence and sovereignty. And let’s be honest: not all states are going to be willing to do that. And if you don’t think yours will, you might want to relocate to one that will. That’s exactly what thousands of people all over America are doing. And if you think you cannot afford such a move, what will you be able to afford if and when the bottom falls out? Just a thought, folks.
Plus, people are sick and tired of these corporate churches not taking a stand for anything. That’s why we have people from all over America watching our livestreamed services at Liberty Fellowship every Sunday afternoon. (And that’s why so many people are even moving to Kalispell, Montana!) By the way, I will be preaching my fourth and final message on “The Truth About Romans 13” this Sunday, February 27, 2011, at 2:00 pm (MST). Technical difficulties prevented me from delivering this message last Sunday. Plus, this Sunday we will start broadcasting the ENTIRE SERVICE, not just my message. To watch the service at Liberty Fellowship this Sunday, go to:
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?page_id=17
And to view or download any of my first three messages on Romans 13 (or other messages), go to:
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?cat=16
The newspapers and other corporate media outlets may not understand what is driving freedom-loving people to do what we are doing, but that’s ok. The truth is, we are fighting for their freedom too! Plus, I hold out hope that the Kellyn Browns of America are beginning to have their own eyes opened as well. Who knows, maybe one day Kellyn will write another column praising and thanking me for moving to Montana! Wouldn’t that be something?
Hope everyone can start on day one this year. That includes LP, GP, CP, Nader and whomever else. Need to be on in 51 or as close as possible !…LIberty In Our Time!
Stop ALL War!
PEACE.
I agree.
And Andy is correct that we would have other work without alt parties, but I wouldn’t have gotten offended at the mere suggestion. People who don’t know the business can be forgiven for thinking that, and things can be explained without taking offense.
I apologize there Andy I left one word out and it changed my statement a lot. You “probably” don’t is what I should have wrote.
Thank you for all the outreach you have done through the years. I hope you will continue to do so! That’s what it will take if we are every to reach what I want
LIberty In Our Time!
Stop ALL War!
PEACE.
“Jerry S. // Mar 3, 2011 at 12:08 am
Ballot access is truly a major problem for third parties.”
There are some states where even the Democrats and Republicans have to petition to get on the ballot. Pennsylvania happens to be one of those states. It is actually pretty difficult to petition to get in the Democrat and Republican primaries. It is really difficult to get into the Democrat and Republican presidential primaries in Pennsylvania with a full slate of delegates. It’s a little bit easier if you are a Democrat or Republican insider that the party machine is backing, but if you want to run in the Democrat or Republican primaries in PA and you aren’t one of the chosen ones by your party’s “machine” then it is pretty damn difficult to get in the primaries. The reason the party insiders in the Ds and Rs have it easier is because they can direct all of their party lackeys and employees to sign their petitions and to get their families to sign their petitions. If you aren’t a “machine” choice then it is door-to-door in freezing cold weather, with only 3 weeks to get the sigs to get into the primaries.
Candidate petitions are actually a very small part of the petition business. The biggest money in the petition business is in initiative and referendum petitions.
“Jerry S. // Mar 3, 2011 at 12:08 am
Ballot access is truly a major problem for third parties. You guys who do it for a living don’t want it to stop but if access was free and open all that money spent on petitions could be spent on spreading the message which equal more votes.”
How in the hell do you know what anyone wants? If there were no more candidate petitions there’d still be initiative petitions, referenda petitions, recall petitions, plebiscite petitions, voter registration drives, etc… If candidate petitions were suddenly abolished, that would just free up more money for voter registration drives or something else.
I don’t have a damn thing to do with passing ballot access laws. I don’t appreciate your insinuation that I’m trying to keep certain laws going just so I can make money. That’s ridiculous.
Also, another thing that you overlook is that ballot access petitioning – IF DONE RIGHT – is actually a great time to do political outreach. This is one of the reason that I do this job, it gives me a chance to do political outreach and get paid at the same time. I’ve handed out thousands and thousands of flyers, pamphlets, DVDs, etc…, over the years, some of which has been at my own expense. I’ve also signed a bunch a people up for the Libertarian Party’s mailing list. I’ve probably done more face to face political outreach over the past 10 1/2 plus years than just about anybody.
My end goal is freedom. If I could do it I’d abolish all coercive government. I’m only involved in politics because I hate politics.
Ballot access is truly a major problem for third parties. You guys who do it for a living don’t want it to stop but if access was free and open all that money spent on petitions could be spent on spreading the message which equal more votes.
Hope everyone can start on day one this year. That includes LP, GP, CP, Nader and whomever else. Need to be on in 51 or as close as possible !
Baldwin actually got more votes than Barr/Root in some states where they all had access. Not sure that had ever happen before (’92-’08).
“Having said that, it must be noted that the situation for all the smaller parties has gotten worse in PA because now the major parties are actually threatening the other parties (ask our LP and GP friends in the state) with paying huge sanctions if they are able to successfully challenge a petition. For this reason, NO alternative parties made the ballot in the 2010 election. It is heavy handed coercion pure and simple.”
I agree that making a party and/or candidate who loses a signature challenge pay a big fine is outrageous. It’s not that hard to check signatures and they don’t impose fines like this anywhere else in the country.
Having said this, ballot access in PA was actually EASIER in 2010 than it has been in many years. The signature requirement dropped down to 19,000 and something for statewide candidates. That’s not that bad, especially when you compare it to other states. Even on average Pennsylvania usually requires around 25,000 valid signatures for statewide candidates. That’s way easier than getting a Presidential ticket on the ballot in say Oklahoma, and it is way easier than getting a candidate for Governor on the ballot in say Alabama. It is also easier than getting on the ballot in Michigan, Indiana, and Georgia. I’d say that it is easier than Texas as well. It is also easier than North Carolina. Illinois and Pennsylvania are very close in population and Illinois requires 25,000 valid petition signatures for statewide candidates, so the requirement in Pennsylvania and Illionois are about the same (and note that the LP made it in Illinois in 2010). Pennsylvania ballot access is not easy, but it is not the most difficult state to get on the ballot in either.
The LP turned in around 22,000 or 23,000 signatures to meet a requirement of 19,000 and something. This is not enough padding. They should have turned in at least 5,000 more signatures. Then they could have made it on the ballot with a 70% validity rate. I think with the number of signatures they turned in they would have needed a validity rate of like 87% to make it on the ballot. It is possible to get validity that high, but I wouldn’t bank on it, especially given the fines for failing a challenge in PA.
I remember when I was in PA in 2008 I talked ton one guy in the LP of PA who told me he had disk from the PA Secretary of State’s office that had a list of all of the registered voters in the state. I talked to another guy in the LP of PA who said that he either had one or could get one. If somebody can get a validity disk from the Secretary of State’s office that means that somebody could have been running validity checks on the signatures collected. This means that they should have been able to get a good idea of what their validity was and then based on that they should have been able to judge how many more signatures they would have needed.
Frankly, if you just hire a few good petitioners and don’t hire any bums off the street you will probably have good validity. Good validity is considered to be 70-75% or higher. Just figure out what you’d need for a 70% validity rate and if you’ve got good petitioners you’ll probably be assured of making it. If you really want to be safe you can go for more than that and assume a 65% or 60% validity rate. You could even assume a 50% validity rate but if you’ve got a solid crew of petitioners that’s probably not necessary. I’ve heard of some campaigns that assumed an even lower validity rate than that, like in New York in 2010 the LP needed 15,000 signatures and they turned in 34,000. The LP of New York made it on the ballot, but that was probably overkill (unless they had crappy validity).
I was available to come in to Pennsylvania for the LP in 2010 but nobody bothered to call me. I wanted to work in Washington which ended on July 1st but I could have come in after that. I went to Colorado instead to work on a free market (anti-Obamacare) ballot initiative. I only got to work on that for a week and then it ended. There was another initiative that was paying in Colorado but I didn’t want to work on it because it was a crappy issue that was sponsored by the Bail Bondsman. So I sat in Colorada for two weeks doing nothing trying to figure out where to go next. I could have gone to Pennsylvania and worked for a couple of weeks, or for that matter, I could have skipped Colorado and gone straight to Pennsylvania. The only problem was that the LP never bothered to call me. I could have easily cranked out another 5,000 signatures for them and they could have made it one the ballot, and my validity is almost always high (usually in the 80s-90s% range, rarely below 70-75% range). Somebody from the LP of PA did finally end up calling my brother to get signaturs but it was like 2 or 3 days before the deadline, so by that point it was too little too late.
The LP of PA doesn’t have anyone to blame for not making the ballot but themselves. They knew the requirement. They had plenty of time to get the sigs. I knew that they were going to be easy picking for a challenge as soon as I read the number that they turned in to the election officials. I couldn’t believe that they turned in so little padding. What did they expect with that little amount of padding? This is politics. People don’t play nice. Do your petition drive half ass and don’t be suprised when you don’t make the ballot.
The situation with the Greens is probably similiar.
“NewFederalist // Mar 2, 2011 at 1:19 pm
As to the CP (as well as the LP and GP) NOT being on the PA ballot in 2010… even more inexcusable than 2008. ”
I agree. The signature requirement in PA in 2010 was easier than it was been in PA for over 10 years. It was easier than the 25,000 sigs that the LP of Illinois needed and the LP made it in Illinois in 2010.
Andy, you are of course correct, but your comment is waaaaay too long and gets into things that the CP does not care about. Mr. Odom would be more likely to read your response if you shortened it and left out all the stuff about your disputes with a former Libertarian Party employee. You can easily trim 80-90% of that comment out.
Also, if anyone wants to discuss the parts of your reply having to do with LP personnel issues, by IPR policy we have to have those discussions in the petitioners open threads only. That is not up to me, so please don’t argue about it.
“This statement is true EXCEPT in so far as there being ‘more than enough petition circulators.’ That part is not correct, but it should have still been overcome.”
I was in Pennsylvania in February of 2008. I came in to work on the Ron Paul campaign from late January through February 12th. I contacted the Constitution Party to inquire about working on their petition during the month of February. Note that they could legally start circulating on February 13th (with the deadline on August 4th). They told me that they weren’t ready to start yet and that they were going to wait until after their national convention which was in April. Note that Pennsylvania allows candidate substitution, so you can start gathering petition signatures before your party’s convention.
I also contacted the Libertarian Party and I started working on that petition in February. Unfortunately, I ended up getting jerked around by somebody who worked for the Libertarian Party’s national office, Sean Haugh. Sean Haugh wanted to pay me at a lower rate than I had agreed to work for and what was lower than what some other petitioners were getting. I took this to then LP National Chairman Bill Redpath and I told him that I was going to quit the petition drive and go work on ballot initiatives in another state if Sean Haugh cut my pay to below the rate to which I had already agreed to work. Bill said that he wanted me to continue working in PA and that the rate I had agreed to work for was reasonable and that he’d honor it. He said that he’d tell Sean Haugh to back down. Well, Sean Haugh kept insisting that he was going to pay me a lower rate. So I contacted Bill Redpath again and Bill once again said that he was going to honor the original rate and that he’d tell Haugh to back down. This did not deter Haugh as he continued to insist that I was going to get paid at a lower rate! I became even more iritated with the situation when I found out that there were petitioners in other states who were being paid at rates (in the form of pay and or pay plus expense reimbursements) that were higher than what I had agreed to work for, and then Haugh had the nerve to want to lower my pay to below that! I had already turned down work on ballot initiatives in Colorado and California to stay in Pennsylvania, and this was the thanks I got. I later found out that Darryl Bonner was working in Philadelphia and that he was getting paid at a higher rate during this time (Haugh and Darryl were buddies at the time, they have apparently had a falling out since then).
My production in Pennsylvania was quite good during the time that I worked. I had another guy with me and we produced over 8,000 signatures. We were also the only paid petitioners who worked outside of Philadelphia. We did most of our work in Central Pennsylvania. One thing to keep in mind in PA is that the signatures for the statewide candidates can come from anywhere in the state, however, any signatures for regional candidates (US House, State Senate, State Assembly, etc…) have to come out of the districts where the candidate is running. We got all of – or almost all of – the signatures to qualify an LP candidate for Congress in the most rural district in PA. We were in the process of qualifying a candidate for State Senate in Central PA when we ended up quitting the petition drive and leaving the state due to Sean Haugh’s actions.
Even though Bill Redpath had told me that he was going to honor the original pay rate, I had good reason to not trust Sean Haugh. Considering that I couldn’t trust Sean Haugh, I wanted to get something in writing from Bill Redpath stating that the original pay rate would be honored before I turned in the signatures.
It took Bill a while to get this to me in writing, so myself, the guy I brought in to work with me, and my brother, all stopped working on the LP petition. My brother stays in PA regularly and he ended up working a petition for an independent candidate for Congress after this. Myself and the other guy left the state and went to Colorado to attend the LP National Convention and to work on ballot initiatives. I left the signatures with my father and I told him to not turn them in until after I got the agreement in writing from Bill Redpath. This may sound extreme, but I did not trust Haugh. I figured that once the signatures were turned in that Haugh would pull a screw job. Note that Haugh was not in the state but was manipulating the situation from his home in North Carolina.
I could have brought in a lot more signatures for the LP if not for the interference of Sean Haugh. Another thing which held me back in PA was that there was percieved to be a problem with the petition early in the drive. The candidates for President and Vice President listed on the petition were stand ins, so this really shouldn’t have mattered, but they put stand in candidates that were both from PA, and the Constitution says that the candidates for President and Vice President are supposed to be from different states. So I stopped working early in the petition drive because I was afraid they wouldn’t pay me on those early sigs because they said they had to change either the Presidential or VP stand in candidates. So I waited around for like 2 weeks to see what they were going to do about it at their state convention and they ended up not changing it. I don’t think that it mattered anyway because they were only stand in candidates. Anyway, if this wouldn’t have happened I could have gotten more signatures during this time period.
If the Constitution Party had ever bothered to get back to me I would have worked on their petition in PA given the fact that I was getting jerked around by Sean Haugh on the LP petition.
As I said above, my brother also quit the LP petition at the same time as myself and the other guy, and not too long after this he started working on a petition for an independent candidate for Congress. The Constitution Party didn’t bother to contact him until a few weeks later after he had finished on the independent candidate for Congress petition. So he did end up working on the Constitution Party peitition in PA, but by this time it was too little too late to save ballot access for the Constitution Party in PA for the 2008 election.
So, there were 3 petitioners in PA who were ready, willing, and able to work, and the Constitution Party let two of us slip away out of the state and didn’t get the petition to the other one until it was too close to the deadline to save their ballot access.
Oh, and the Constitution Party already knew who I was because I got some signatures for them in PA in 2004, plus I had gotten signatures for them in North Dakota in 2006 and in Arkansas in 2007. My brother had also gotten signatures for them in PA in 2004.
Kafkaesque, even.
The Pennsylvania ballot access laws are completely outrageous.
As to the CP (as well as the LP and GP) NOT being on the PA ballot in 2010… even more inexcusable than 2008. The number of valid signatures required was about 30% of what the number was for 2008 and yet nobody made it. Yeah, the law with its onerous fees for failure is terrible BUT if any party had just collected raw signatures in the amount required for 2008(67,000) they would have survived ANY challenge the Dems or Reps could have thrown at them. The requirement for 2010 was only about 20,000 valid. No excuses!
And incidentally…Andy’s family are full time PA residents.
By the way, there’s a very good chance that Andy and some other people we know will be in PA working on Ron Paul again, so if you can hire them before they leave the state, you’d be very smart to do so.
Mr. Odom,
“Also a couple of our own paid petitioners, who will remain nameles, grossly overstated the numbers of petitions that they had collected.”
Never, ever count petitions that you don’t have in hand. Believe me on this one. Whether they are paid or volunteer, they don’t have the signatures until they have delivered them to you and you have physical possession of them and have counted them. Along with starting early, I can’t stress this enough. I don’t care whether I am talking to a client or someone who would never hire me in a million years with money that they don’t have and won’t get, this is a cardinal rule for all petition drives.
Until the signatures are in your office, home, storage unit, or wherever you keep them, they simply do not exist as far as you are concerned.
If you have to drive from Erie to Philly and back twice a week to make sure people have what they claim they have, that’s better than just trusting them. I’ve seen too many people learn this the hard way.
Andy (from the comment you are responding to) was there in Pennsylvania along with several other people at the time in question, so if you all had hired them, I bet you would have made it on the ballot.
As the Constitution PartyNational Field Director, I will concur entirely with the sentiment of the following statement made above, though I will add some explanatory comments after the text:
“The Constitution Party failing to make the ballot in 2008 in Pennsylvania is just inexcusable. The Constitution Party has their national headquarters in Pennsylvania. They had plenty of time to gather enough signatures. They had more than enough petition circulators available to gather signatures there. They really dropped the ball with this one.”
This statement is true EXCEPT in so far as there being “more than enough petition circulators.” That part is not correct, but it should have still been overcome. The Pennsylvania CP had always been able to pretty much self fund or self collect its petitions in previous years. The volunteer part in 2008 was severely shortchanged however because many of those we had counted on to get petitions in the past had thrown in with the Ron Paul effort and by the spring and summer were either somehow still clinging to hope that he would get the nomination or were burnt out by the time they had thrown in the RP towell. Either way, we did not get their help. Also a couple of our own paid petitioners, who will remain nameles, grossly overstated the numbers of petitions that they had collected. By the time we were aware of the true situation, it was very late. We contacted Christina Tobin’s group who had just finished for Nadar and commissioned them to work the final week of July in Philadelphia and we still almost made it.
Still this is not meant to be justification or an excuse. It is embarrassing and should not have happened and it will not happen again. Having said that, it must be noted that the situation for all the smaller parties has gotten worse in PA because now the major parties are actually threatening the other parties (ask our LP and GP friends in the state) with paying huge sanctions if they are able to successfully challenge a petition. For this reason, NO alternative parties made the ballot in the 2010 election. It is heavy handed coercion pure and simple.
Hopefully, Sen. Mike Folmer’s Voter Choice Act will gain support and change the ballot access and maintenance laws very much for the better.
Nevertheless, until the law changes, we will just have to, as Mary Starrett likes to say “put our big boy and girl pants on” and get the job done in 2012. The state party is now in much better condition than it was in 2008, so I am very optimistic. We’ll see.
California seems like a tough nut to crack, unless they win their lawsuit. It’s possible that a well-known candidate could bring in enough money to do it with signatures, but far from guaranteed even with a well-known candidate. PA is certainly doable, if they start early and remember to get plenty of padding. Better to spend the money on extra sigs than some Republican lawyer’s inflated fees.
I agree, Andy. But, mistakes can be made. Looking forward to 2012 is smart. I expect to see them on the ballot in California and PA.
“Trent Hill // Mar 1, 2011 at 9:24 pm
PA is another state where every CP contender has been on the ballot and Baldwin wasn’t–thanks for reminding me Andy.”
The Constitution Party failing to make the ballot in 2008 in Pennsylvania is just inexcusable. The Constitution Party has their national headquarters in Pennsylvania. They had plenty of time to gather enough signatures. They had more than enough petition circulators available to gather signatures there. They really dropped the ball with this one.
Jore would be a more credible statewide or flagship candidate, since he has longer standing community ties.
Baldwin would be better off running for a small local office, county commission or something like that.
PA is another state where every CP contender has been on the ballot and Baldwin wasn’t–thanks for reminding me Andy.
I think that Chuck Baldwin’s vote total benifited from Bob Barr being such a screw up as a candidate for the Libertarian Party. Bob Barr’s past record alienated a lot of potential supporters, and the Barr campaign’s actions alienated even more potential supporters, especially when he didn’t show up at that event that Ron Paul held for minor party and independent candidates. The Barr campaign disrespecting Ron Paul probably cost them several thousand votes. Some of those votes ended up going to Chuck Baldwin.
“the best performing was Howard Phillips in 1992, the CP was on the ballot in…42, I think, states, including Texas, New York, and California. Baldwin was on the ballot in none of those extremely high population states and still broke the CP Presidential vote-getting record.”
Yeah, Baldwin really got screwed over by the Alan Keyes faction in California. Baldwin could have made it on the ballot in Pennsylvania if the people in the Constitution Party would have taken my advice when I advised them to start their ballot access petition drive in Pennsylvania early. They instead put it off for several weeks and then ended up failing to gather enough signatures there.
You mean you want to close the borders to immigrants from other states? LOL
Agreed.
Most traditional Montanans have had a live and let live mentality. They just want the opportunity to pursue Life, Liberty and Happiness without undue interference. It is an extremely simplistic view to characterize the Flathead Valley as a “conservative” hotbed. In fact, as throughout Montana, there is a serious libertarian streak. There are also many extreme socialists in the mix. Don’t forget the CPUSA (Communist Party) headquarters in Missoula just 90 miles to the south of Kalispell.
RJ,
It most certainly did help. Look at the CP Presidential contender’s previous highs in voting numbers–the best performing was Howard Phillips in 1992, the CP was on the ballot in…42, I think, states, including Texas, New York, and California. Baldwin was on the ballot in none of those extremely high population states and still broke the CP Presidential vote-getting record.
Do we really need these carpet baggers moving into Montana. Ron Paul may have said he would vote for Baldwin but that was more to do with what Bob Barr did during the time when Paul was looking to endorse all third parties (GOTV) rather then an endorsement. But still the supposed endorsement didn’t help Baldwin who received under 200,000 votes to Barr’s over 500,000 votes in 2008.
@22
GG man. Saying there are “some” similarities implies that there are also differences.
And twice on Sunday!
A lot of them are actually on welfare, but many of them nevertheless hypocritically claim to be for free markets (but not too free when it comes to immigration and international trade), while others are in fact proud of being socialists.
Cobb: “It reminds me of Iowa 50 years ago” – I hope this means he’s not coming back. Sure, my fair state has its issues with Mexican immigrants, but I’ll take them over the Nazis any day.
I didn’t say he was a racist, did I? I said racists support him.
= Racists have supported a lot of mainstream politicians in the past before, including Ron Paul, even though he has rebuked their support.
I’m also not saying WN’s are moving to Kalispell solely because of Baldwin being there. What I AM saying is there are SOME similarities between the positions taken by many WN’s (by no means a homogenous group) and those advocated by Baldwin.
= Nearly all of the WN crowd are very socialist on the economic issues and would likely support a pro-gun control police state if it includes targeting non-whites. Such people are actually anti-Constitutionalist and an affront to the Right.
@20 I had that thought too when I stumbled across a meeting of those in a library in Phoenix. I went into the wrong meeting room and it was some nazis. They were very clearly not the master race… it looked like they generally got the short end of the stick, genetically.
Whenever I read about Hitler supporters, for some reason I always get the impression Hitler would have selected them for Euthanasia or at least sterilization.
“My biggest curiosity is–will he run as a CPer? An Independent? A Republican?
Do you get the sense he got fed up with the CP?”
Not at all–but the allure of running as a Ron Paul Republican, and garnering the endorsement of the many Ron Paul-style state legislators and statewide officers in Montana (plus Ron Paul himself) will prove to be an interesting dynamic in his decision I think.
As for the Independent remark, well, he was a registered Independent in FLA, not CP.
If you read the “comments” section of the newspaper articles about baldwin, you find many montana residents, dissing ole chuckie baby, and telling him to take his flim flam back to flori-duh!
Very sad for Baldwin, the con game gets old. The bleating for $donations gets old, and frankly the sheep aren’t as dumb as they used to be. Chuck get an honest job. Like driving an ice cream truck! (wink)
He’s been talking about running for governor of Montana. I think that his rhetoric in this editorial would indicate a high probability of him running.
I get that sense too.
Baldwin definitely seems to be gearing up for a run for something.
I agree. Hopefully, it would be local office, although I think he likes a big stage.
My biggest curiosity is–will he run as a CPer? An Independent? A Republican?
Do you get the sense he got fed up with the CP?
I think they are moving there because when the SHTF it will be much safer for family and friends than in a larger city. As for all who thinks things are fine you need to spend a little more time listening to alternative media.
Media-?Opoly: http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/16796162
This country and the world for that matter is borderline in a depression. There are hungry people out there and it’s going to get worse IMO!
As I’ve stated elsewhere it’s the best time in years to enlarge third party support. More and more people aren’t happy with the Ds and Rs and want an alternative. They must hear the message to embrace it…
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I feel compelled to apologize again for something that I probably should not have. I think it is a disingenuous political tactic to attack individuals based on who their supporters are. I was in no way trying to do that. This is something that we saw with Ron Paul in ’08 and Allen West this past year. I’m not of the belief that it is the responsibility of any candidate or individual to renounce the support of so-called “fringe elements.”
I didn’t say he was a racist, did I?
No.
I said racists support him.
As far as I know he does not encourage that.
As far as I know, Baldwin is not a racist, and did not move where he did because some racists are also moving there, and/or because some racists support him.
Having spent time in Kalispell myself, I can definitely see how the particular political persuasions of the residents might attract both WN’s and Baldwin & co.
I went through that area twice last summer for the first time since the mid-80s, but didn’t spend much time. It’s physically beautiful countryside. I didn’t spend long enough to get to know what you are talking about as far as the people.
I think I really need to work on my choice wording. I’m sorry. Bottom line is that Kalispell is incredibly conservative. It has been that way for a long time (see: John Stokes and KGEZ). I think that this attracts both white nationalists and Chuck Baldwin. It is in this sense that I do not think that this is a “coincidence.”
I didn’t say he was a racist, did I? I said racists support him. I’m also not saying WN’s are moving to Kalispell solely because of Baldwin being there. What I AM saying is there are SOME similarities between the positions taken by many WN’s (by no means a homogenous group) and those advocated by Baldwin. Having spent time in Kalispell myself, I can definitely see how the particular political persuasions of the residents might attract both WN’s and Baldwin & co.
He’s been talking about running for governor of Montana. I think that his rhetoric in this editorial would indicate a high probability of him running.
Brian–so? He isnt a white nationalist, nor does he pander to them on race issues. Baldwin was very clear in his campaign that he was interested in bringing together different colors and creeds for liberty.
@ 5,6 Do you have any evidence whatsoever that Baldwin is a racist in any way? I don’t know of any.
Baldwin definitely seems to be gearing up for a run for something. My biggest curiosity is–will he run as a CPer? An Independent? A Republican?
He has a lot of supporters in the white nationalist movement.
http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/25397939/detail.html
New Sect Of White Nationalists Promotes In Flathead Valley
By Jessica Headley
KALISPELL, Mont. — A third group of white nationalist brought their beliefs to the forefront by a holding a movie showing at the Flathead Library on Thursday night.
It started with April Gaede, a woman who gained national exposure with Pioneer Little Europe and her daughters’ singing group ‘Prussian Blue.’ Then came Karl Gharst’s group, a group that claims they’re Christians and are Hitler supporters. And now, there’s a third sect led by Craig Cobb. He claims he’s wanted in different countries for speaking out. He moved here from Canada in July and says he isn’t a Christian. He wants his own lands for the white race.
“We want our own lands for our own people and with our own people in control. We do not want any other races in our lands. We want them on the borders, so we can teach our children the chaos that ensues on the borders,” says Cobb.
Cobb and Gharst don’t get along. In fact, Cobb just got a restraining order against Gharst. The one thing they do agree on is they want more white nationalism in the valley.
“The Flathead Valley, whether they admit it or not, they’re here because it’s white. This is a white area. It reminds me of Iowa 50 years ago. Everybody’s orderly for the most part,” states Cobb.
————
More about Craig Cobb
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Cobb
Do you have any reason to think it isn’t?
Really? A coincidence?
I’ve read that, although I trust that’s a coincidence.
Isn’t there a bunch of white power people also moving to flathead valley of MT?