August 2012 Open Thread

Every month we set a thread up for anything related to third parties and independents that anyone would like to post. Do you have some news to pass along, that isn’t related to one of our articles? Here’s the place to do it. Do you want to ask a question of the readers and writers of IPR? Here’s an excellent forum for you.

Who wants to start us off for this month?

338 thoughts on “August 2012 Open Thread

  1. Dolorous Dan

    Is there a map of the U.S. somewhere with inclusive info on ballot access for all third parties?

  2. Oranje Mike

    The fight against Top Two has begun in Arizona. The future of third parties is on the line.

  3. George Phillies

    The August Liberty for America has been released. Articles include:

    Membership Recruiting Breakthrough!
    Johnson 2012 June Financials
    Candidate Support from Indiana
    Project Saratoga
    Oregon LP: Republican Takeover Try
    LNC Dodges Lieberman Issue
    LNC Declines to Support Oregon Ballot Access
    Last LNC Almost Killed 50-State Ballot Access
    Wes Benedict on LNC Functioning
    State Chairs Behind-the-Scenes
    Michael Johnston on Project Saratoga Issues
    Root Perhaps Urged Vote for Romney—He Denies This
    Where Your Money Went

  4. George Phillies

    Daniel Fishman (Libertarian Party) has collected the signatures to be on the ballot in Massachusetts for Congress in the 6th District. He is running against incumbent Congressman Tierney (Democratic Party) and outbound state Senator Richard Tisei (Republican Party).

  5. George Phillies

    I am amused to note that I am getting inquiries as to where LfA received the Michael Johnston material, which went to folks on the LNC, the local organization, the state chairs list, etc. Gee, the material must be more interesting than I thought, when I made it a late-in-issue article.

    I have made a point of tagging the original source, which should be fairly obvious, not who on the LNC (or wherever) forwarded the material to me, nor what press inquiries I used to whom to obtain the material.

    And, no, I am not and will not tell anyone who all my sources are.

  6. Stewart Flood

    The source of your information isn’t really important at this point. What is important is the comments about a regional report being modified to present a more favorable view of “Saratoga.”

    The same thing happened last December, and again in March, when more states were represented to be fully in support of the project than really were. Several were contacted and had no idea what it was.

    The conflict of interest is real. It is a serious issue and should be investigated.

  7. George Phillies

    @9 Yes, but sometimes people were being blamed for being the source, when they were not, and sometimes — my writing training lies in a completely different direction — I needed to be more clear.

  8. paulie

    This is not on LNCDiscussPublic yet, but since it will be, I see no problem with posting it here.

    Response from Jillian Mack about the above:

    Mr. Dixon & Mr. Goldstein,

    Thank you for your comments.

    State Chairs & LNC Members,

    I apologize that this has to take up any of your valuable volunteer time, but since Mr. Michael Johnston decided to put out public statements claiming that I had submitted an inaccurate or misleading report to the LNC for Region 3, I felt it was my duty to contact all of the state chairs in my region to find out if they felt this was the case or not.

    When contacting the state chairs in my region, I gladly offered to correct or append any information that they felt was inaccurate or missing from my report.

    I have now received responses from Chairman Goldstein of Indiana, Chairman Cranley of Kentucky, and Chairman Knedler of Ohio, all of whom have stated that they saw no issues with what I submitted in my Region 3 Report to the LNC. I am still awaiting a response from Chairwoman Rockman-Moon of Michigan.

    In addition to the comments made by LP Indiana Chairman Goldstein on LNC-Discuss and the StateChairs list, I have also pasted comments below from LP Kentucky Chairman Cranley and LP Ohio Chairman Knedler regarding my report:

    From: Eric Cranley []
    As the State Chairman for the Libertarian Party of Kentucky, I have looked over the report that Jillian Mack submitted for Region 3 to the LNC. Nothing in the Kentucky section of that report was inaccurate. Everything said about Kentucky was either in the written report I submitted to Ms. Mack, or said by me to her on the phone for the purposes of adding to the report.

    From: Kevin Knedler []
    I would say that the “bar has been raised” on Region reports.
    I’m impressed and that isn’t easy.

    Once I either get a “thumbs up” or a request to correct/append to the LP Michigan report, I hope to put this matter to bed for good and move forward with growing the LP.

    Best regards,

    Jillian A. Mack
    (513) 549-6248 [mobile/text]
    Please contribute to freedom!
    Libertarian Party of Ohio (
    Finance Director, Central Committee Member (elected), Executive Committee At-Large (elected)
    Libertarian National Committee (
    Region 3 Representative for Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio (elected)
    Young Libertarian National Alliance (
    Co-Founder, Co-Chair

    From: [] On Behalf Of Patrick Dixon
    Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 11:40 PM
    Subject: Re: [Statechairs] [Lnc-discuss] Region 3 Report

    Sam, I agree. I have read the report and talked to Jillian, though she is not in my region. I find nothing wrong here.

    Yours in Liberty,

    Pat Dixon
    Chair, Libertarian Party of Texas

    On Aug 5, 2012, at 10:07 PM, wrote:

    Dear LNC,
    Apparently there have been some problems reported about alleged changes made to state reports by the Region 3 rep, Jillian Mack. As State Chair of LPIN, I have reviewed the content which was submitted by LPIN Executive Director Chris Spangle and the content of Jillian’s Region 3 Report to the LNC, and I take no issue with what she submitted. Jillian fairly and accurately represented the activities of the LPIN.
    In Liberty,

    Sam Goldstein, Chair
    Libertarian Party of Indiana
    LNC Region 3 Alternate
    8925 N. Meridian St., Ste. 101
    Indianapolis IN 46260
    317-850-0726 Cell
    317-582-1773 Fax Email

    Lnc-discuss mailing list

  9. Stewart Flood

    And they are good at covering up. She didn’t change much, so of course the states who supplied information that was not modified are her best defense. And Ohio won’t dare to expose her to further controversy.

  10. Scott West

    @ 1. Wikipedia has a decent round up of ballot access info for all parties here:

    “A minimum of 270 electoral votes is needed to win the presidency. The following parties have gained access to at least one state ballot.
    Parties with multiple candidates listed have not chosen a nominee yet. Names of official nominees appear in bold.”,_2012#Ballot_access_to_270_or_more_electoral_votes

    (via B.A.N.)

  11. Bob

    This site is FAR less entertaining without Milnes. Come on, let him comment, it makes me laugh…

  12. Stewart Flood

    But she did change Ohio’s report, and she has admitted it.

    The point is, she has admitted it. She admitted changing a report to make a project that she has a personal financial interest in look good to the LNC.

    A personal financial interest. Remember these words.

  13. George Phillies

    @11 Your forward appears to be the only place which hints that anyone has proposed that there is an issue with the Indiana part of the report. If there is no such proposal, wherefore is there a confirmation that there was not? I have seen no other suggestion of that. I am also unclear on what Texas has to do with the region.

  14. Brian Holtz

    “Wayne’s most important commentary ever” today advances a suspicion that Obama “attended Columbia as a foreign exchange student”.


    Oh well, at least the Birthers and Truthers in the LP’s big tent aren’t trying to put their theories and suspicions into the LP’s official statements.

  15. paulie

    Your forward appears to be the only place which hints that anyone has proposed that there is an issue with the Indiana part of the report. If there is no such proposal, wherefore is there a confirmation that there was not? I have seen no other suggestion of that. I am also unclear on what Texas has to do with the region.


    That’s just what she sent.

    You can now see it for yourself on LNCDP but I put it here in the meantime because the subject came up and it was not up there yet then.

  16. just saying

    WARoot calls WTF on Columbia classmate Barry:

    “Here’s my gut belief: Obama got a leg up by being admitted to both Occidental and Columbia as a foreign exchange student. He was raised as a young boy in Indonesia. But did his mother ever change him back to a U.S. citizen? When he returned to live with his grandparents in Hawaii or as he neared college-age preparing to apply to schools, did he ever change his citizenship back? I’m betting not.”

  17. Michael H. Wilson

    re # 23. Yup that is another great piece about third parties. I am sure. Well maybe not.

  18. just hoping this helps

    @24 – you truly are among the fortunate who do not recognize WAYNE ALLYN ROOT branding. Or maybe you can’t recognize Mr. Root without his teeth (which I hear are awesome) —


    “Wayne Allyn Root is a former Libertarian vice presidential nominee. He now serves as Chairman of the Libertarian National Campaign Committee. He is the […]
    Author’s Website

    I am President Obama’s classmate at Columbia University, Class of ’83. I am also one of the most accurate Las Vegas oddsmakers and prognosticators.”

  19. just orangelining

    No one is surprised that Reason is shocked, SHOCKED that Mr WAR, in calling out Obama as a foreigner, has violated consensus reality.

    How many Reason staffers themselves hold foreign passports?

    The answer may or may not surprise you.

  20. just saying

    Mr WAR was rude to Gov Johnson by not offering him the same advice he offered Romney — call out aka Obama as a foreigner!

  21. Las Vegas Walk of Stars

    continuing the quote from 25 “Accurate enough that I was awarded my own star on the Las Vegas Walk of Stars.” That and a “donation of $20,000 is required for each star. Check should be made payable to Las Vegas Walk of Stars…” Wayne forgets to mention that he’s on the Nomination Committee of the Las Vegas Walk of Stars.

    The Las Vegas Walk of Stars® committee has adopted the following star dedication criteria. This criteria will serve as a guideline to honor deserving personalities by placing a Star onto the sidewalks of Las Vegas, Clark County.

    Place: Las Vegas Blvd. from Sahara Ave. to Russell Ave.

    Honorees must have worked or lived in the Greater County of Clark, for periods of considerable regularity. Honorees must have, by their presence in this area, contributed to the charm, worldwide prominence and name recognition of Las Vegas, Clark County.

    The following persons will be considered candidates:

    Show business persons who have distinguished themselves as actors, producers, directors, playwrights, cinematographers, musicians, either on State, Radio, Film, and/or Television, as well as persons who have otherwise become prominent in the field of Entertainment, and have greatly contributed to the worldwide prominence of Las Vegas.

    Literary: Authors, playwrights, screen writers. Persons who penned literary works of considerable distinction and have achieved national and international recognition in the field of entertainment. Special merits are given to literary works produced into films or television specials.

    Pioneers and Civic: A Meritorious Star may be awarded to local persons prominently and historically linked to the development of Las Vegas, Clark County, i.e., early settlers, civic personalities with significant historical achievement who have distinguished themselves in the service to the community.

    Humanitarians: A Meritorious Star may be awarded to persons who have greatly distinguished themselves in the service to their fellow man by enduring and selfless contributions to charitable causes and by their altruistic deeds achieved exulted recognition within the community.

    Sports: Athletes and coaches who have excelled in their respective field of sports and have greatly contributed to the worldwide prominence of Greater Las Vegas.

    Military: Congressional Medal awardees, only.

    The Las Vegas International Film Festival’s Annual Special Honoree.

    The inscriptions on the stars are relevant to the honoree’s field of achievement:
    Show business: Stage/Radio/Film/Television
    Literary: Author, Playwright, Composer
    Pioneers/Civic: Mayor, civic personality, community leader, etc.
    Humanitarians: See above
    Sports: Athletes, coaches, etc.
    Military: Congressional Medal awardees only.

    Every effort will be made to link a Pioneer’s star with a historically related location as well as all other stars to be placed at a mutually agreeable location. However, all decisions to the eligibility of a candidate, the placement of a star, and the inscription on the star, rest with the committee and are final.

    A donation of $20,000 is required for each star. Check should be made payable to Las Vegas Walk of Stars, (Tax ID #71-0946230), reported as such to the IRS, and is not refundable. A $10,000 deposit is due at confirmation date, the remaining balance of $10,000, is due 30 days prior to star dedication day. This cost includes all expenses related to the shipping, manufacturing and imbedding of the Star, various proclamations, a Walk of Stars Plaque, the sound needed for the dedication ceremony, flowers for lady honorees, publicity, press releases, radio/TV interviews, liability insurance and applicable fees.

    Any expenses exceeding the above mentioned items, such as “special pomp and circumstances,” i.e., bands, celebrity MC, chairs, street closures, special security, cocktail reception, etc., shall be borne by the sponsoring entity. Las Vegas Walk of Stars committee, will, however, assist in arranging and handling of these special particulars, if so requested. Sponsoring entity shall be the stars themselves, family, friends or corporate sponsors such as hotels. Any “special pomp and circumstance” plans are subject to Committee approval.

    It is required by law, that the ‘Star’ sponsoring entity sign a “Waiver of Contributor” form prior to a star dedication.

    Las Vegas Walk of Stars, a d/b/a of the Motion Picture Hall of Fame Foundation, a non-profit public benefit corporation an equal opportunity organization, is non-discriminating in its evaluation and confirmation of star candidates. Race, creed, religion or ethnic heritage of a candidate are absolute non-factors. Candidates are solely selected on achievements, within their endeavors and contributions to the community.

    All business aspects of Las Vegas Walk of Stars®, are administered by the Board of Directors, and in matters relating to Las Vegas Walk of Stars® , are final.

    Please speak with your local area representative for dedication pricing information:

    Las Vegas, Nevada: Robert Alexander – (702) 655-STAR (7827)
    Las Vegas, Nevada: Edward Swindle – (760) 731-9829
    Las Vegas, Nevada: Danny Pharmer – (760) 655-STAR (7827)
    Las Vegas, Nevada: Pablo Castro Zavala – (702) 813-8345
    Chicago, Illinois: Ron Ranke – (847) 277-0242

    To submit a nomination for review, please print and sign:
    Dedication Criteria
    Waiver of Donor

    and return to:

    P.O. Box 15129,
    Las Vegas, Nevada

  22. Darryl W. Perry

    I’ve had the pleasure to meet Marc J Victor on a couple of occasions, he is a class act and very intelligent – he will be a great candidate for US Senate!

  23. paulie

    @21 Paulie, I am in complete and exact agreement with you on this. George

    LOL, how so? I was just being a conduit of information. I did not express my opinion, as far as I know.

  24. George Phillies

    @33 I don’t know what Texas has to do with this, either. And I am looking to find where there is something wrong being alleged against the IN report — I am not inclined to think there is something to be found — that would lead to an explanation of why IN is speaking up.

  25. paulie

    Sam Goldstein is speaking up to defend Jillian because the message made its way to the state chairs list that she was changing state reports.

    In fact, the only report she was ever actually directly accused of changing was Ohio’s, but Kevin Knedler is backing her up, as are the other chairs in her region, including Goldstein.

    Pat said “Sam, I agree. I have read the report and talked to Jillian, though she is not in my region. I find nothing wrong here.” He was addressing the state chairs list because – if I am interpreting this correctly – Michael Johnston’s accusation made its way there.

    As long as Kevin says he is happy with Jillian’s report, along with all the other chairs in her region, where do you think this can possibly go?

    It may be as Stewart says that they are “good at covering up their tracks,” but if so, they are good and covered up, so that’s that.

    If you would like to make a formal complaint to the LNC that you believe that members of the LNC, and the LNC’s IT committee, who are regional chairs and thus have some influence over state chairs, have a conflict of interest in being the owners of a company that is one of several competing for potentially lucrative LP national and state IT contracts, go ahead and do that.

    You could write the whole LNC or you could start with the chair or you could start with your region rep and At Large Reps.

    Stewart’s de facto region rep is Lee Wrights, but the At Large reps can also be relevant here.

    I don’t think this thing with the reports is going anywhere. It was Knedler’s report that Ms. Mack is accused of altering and he is saying he is happy with her version. If she changed any other reports those state chairs are all saying they are happy with her version as well. Given those facts what do you see coming out of this?

  26. LP Observer

    Maybe the situation should have been referred to the Ohio leadership first, before one person sent it to the world. Strange why this wasn’t handeled in private. That said, this Saratoga project has to be approved by the individual states and maybe they will address the issues when they vote. Again, that would also have kept it more private.

  27. NewFederalist

    Paulie… if there is any sort of archive of information about an organization known as the Constitution Parties of the United States (or perhaps America, I don’t remember) when all your petition drives are finally over it would be good to research their organizational model. The “parties” folded into the greater George Wallace AIP and such in 1967 and 68. The reason I even bring this up is because the national committee of this organization acknowledged they exercised no control over the state parties and acted as a coordinating body only. Hence the use of the term Constitution “Parties” rather than “Party”. This group was hardly libertarian in philosophy but seemed very libertatian in structure. Sort of the reverse of today’s LP and LNC. I know you are terribly busy now but when you can come up for air it might be worthwhile.

  28. just barium

    Roseanne Barr to Speak at Chemtrails and Geo-Engineering Conference in Los Angeles & Live Online

    PRWebPRWeb – 10 hrs ago

    Award-winning actor, author, activist, and presidential candidate Roseanne Barr will join weather experts, researchers, journalists and filmmakers to discuss Geo-Engineering based Weather Modification Programs at the Consciousness Beyond Chemtrails Conference & Fundraiser.


    Jill Stein is stonewalling on the issue of genocidal chemtrails.

    & where is Gov. Gary “Agenda 21?” Johnson on this? Rep. Goode?

  29. paulie

    just nuts,

    Did you know that Roseanne Barr is of Jewish ancestry also?

    The granddaughter of immigrants from Europe and Russia, Barr was the oldest of four children in a working-class Jewish Salt Lake City family;

    Will you be calling her a “zionist” next as well?

    If not, what is it exactly that makes Jill Stein a “zionist professor” in your opinion?

    …or are you…

    just cuckoo?

  30. just barium

    Hey stalker-man,

    I see you are employing yet another Communist-style rhetorical device here. Very shameful. You should consider apologizing.

    And why do you think Barr would be a Zionist just because she is Jewish? If I were inclined to Communist-style rhetoric, I might characterize your slander of Ms. Barr as racist.

  31. paulie

    You are the one who called Jill Stein a “zionist professor” even though she supports the Palestinian side and nobody was talking about Israel or Palestine. If you meant something other than that she is Jewish, what was it? You have been ducking that question, so you are the one who should answer it or apologize.

    Communists and bigots such as yourself have a lot in common.

    Both treat individuals, not as individuals, but as faceless and interchangeable components of collectives.

    I am an individualist; I believe each individual is unique, and that none are guilty of collective crimes in which they had no personal part.

    Communists asign guilt to an economic class.

    You, it seems, asign guilt to an ethnic class or several.

    If you have any alternative explanation of what you meant by describing a Jewish woman who supports Palestinian rights as a “zionist professor” when the topic of Israel/Palestine had not been broached by anyone, please provide it, or continue to be exposed as…

    just a bigot….

    and a collectivist….

    just like a commie!

    Since you dragged your shameful bigotry here, it’s worthwhile to point out that you called Jill Stein, who supports the Palestinian cause, a “zionist professor,” and have been utterly unwilling or unable to defend that bigoted and nonsensical characterization.

    Your further attempts to deflect attention from your bigotry by calling me a communist won’t work either, since regular readers here already know that I am a refugee from communist tyranny myself and an activist for minimizing monopoly government as much as possible and eliminating it altogether if and when possible.

    Having been subjected to actual Soviet propaganda, I have to say you sound a lot like them…all the way down to your overblown bloviating about Zionists and your collectivist notions of nation-state loyalty. Substitute a couple of words and I could be….

    …just back in the USSR.

    Now, either go shave that mustache or let it grow all the way out on the sides…it looks ridiculous….and for Jah’s sake, do something about that stray strand of hair always hanging down across your forehead….sheesh!

  32. paulie

    @45 see

    The Virginia State Board of Elections believes it has found one petitioner from northern Virginia who submitted 146 petition sheets that were forged. This petitioner was circulating the petition to place Constitution Party nominee Virgil Goode on the ballot for President. On August 6 the State Board of Elections asked the Virginia Attorney General to investigate.

    The Washington Post, in this article, gives the impression that the problem is bigger than it actually is. Goode has submitted 19,000 signatures already, to meet a goal of 10,000 signatures. Already, last month, the Board had verified 8,000 valid signatures, even before checking the signatures submitted since then. The sheets submitted by the petitioner who allegedly forged names were not part of the 8,000 signatures that had already been verified.

    Goode has collected many of his signatures personally this year, something he has done in his past congressional campaigns.

  33. just American

    @44 — Hey stalker-man,

    I don’t remember which thread was that on you’re talking about, but I seem to recall there was additional discussion on Ms Stein’s crypto-Zionist leanings. What else is there to say? Your Communist-style propaganda is laughable.

    Meanwhile it is you who on this page have posted racist propaganda against Ms. Barr, insinuating she is a “Zionist” just because she happens to have Jewish ancestry.

    You should apologize to Ms. Barr for your racist rant.

  34. Wayne Allyn Romney

    Can anyone tell me when the last time Root has written a commentary highly critical of Romney??

    Cause I like to know.

  35. Stewart Flood

    “Stewart’s de facto region rep is Lee Wrights, but the At Large reps can also be relevant here.”

    Not exactly accurate. South Carolina is not part of a region. The ByLaws indicate that states not in a region may elect to bring issues to the LNC through the vice-chair. An at-large representative may choose to ignore a request from anyone, as may representatives of regions, so this designates someone who is supposed to take action if requested.

    That is not the same a a de facto regional representative. We intentionally chose to not be in a region, and we are not. Since Mr Wrights wants to be pro-active and communicate with the two states who are not in regions, we will certainly cooperate and keep him appraised of what we are doing. He has no requirement to turn in a region report.

    That said, Mr Wrights has been of great assistance recently in handling a report of a confidential nature for us and I certainly thank both the vice-chair and the chair for their attention in the matter.

    Back to the conflict:

    While I believe that there is significant evidence that a true conflict of interest exists, I have neither the time or energy to submit a grievance to the LNC.

    There would obviously be a number of states who would disagree with an accusation of that nature, so the discussion and energy spent by the LNC on this topic would detract from their real work.

    Even if a charge could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, most LNC members would be too afraid to take the action necessary. A few might, but the cabal controls enough votes that nothing could be done anyway!

  36. paulie

    Just wacko,

    I don?t remember which thread was that on you?re talking about

    To refresh your memory here is your brilliant commentary…

    Ms. Barr?s substance as a successful business executive will surely trump Ms. Stein?s boring Zionist professor personality.

    Note that no discussion of Israel/Palestine precipitated this remark and that you have failed to provide any reason at all that you made it after numerous opportunities and plenty of time.

    but I seem to recall there was additional discussion on Ms Stein?s crypto-Zionist leanings.

    The actual discussion was


    the United States has encouraged the worst tendencies of the Israeli government as it pursues policies of occupation, apartheid, assassination, illegal settlements, blockades, building of nuclear bombs, indefinite detention, collective punishment, and defiance of international law. Instead of allying with the courageous proponents of peace within Israel and Palestine, our government has rewarded consistent abusers of human rights. There is no peace or justice or democracy at the end of such a path. We must reset U.S. policy regarding Israel and Palestine, as part of a broader revision of U.S. policy towards the Middle East.

    Does all this sound ?zionist?? No. People were disappointed in Jill Stein because they thought she didn?t focus enough on being anti-foreign intervention, there?s just no basis for their concerns though.

    So again, what was your basis for your out of the blue description of Stein as a “zionist professor”?

    Answer the question already, you are looking more and more ridiculous the longer you duck it.

  37. paulie

    Meanwhile it is you who on this page have posted racist propaganda against Ms. Barr, insinuating she is a “Zionist” just because she happens to have Jewish ancestry.

    You should apologize to Ms. Barr for your racist rant.

    I insinuated no such thing, as anyone with a rudimentary grasp of English and logic (that would exclude you, of course) already knows that I was just asking whether the (il)logical conclusion of the standard you applied to Jill Stein (for lack of a better explanation — and you have pointedly failed to provide any after repeated inquiry) extended to Ms. Barr as well.

    Now, once and for all, if there was some basis for you referring to Ms. Stein as a “zionist professor” out of the blue other than the fact of her ancestry, what in the world was it?

    Make with the explanation…or leave your reputation as a bigot intact.

  38. paulie


    Fair enough.

    If you don’t want to pursue it I understand.

    My point was mainly to George, that the issue of the report changing was DOA and that beating a dead horse further would not make it rise and gallop.

  39. Stewart Flood

    Understood. She admitted making the change, which as I understand it was only to Ohio’s portion of the report. The conflict is clear, and the report modification is evidence of some of the effect of the conflict.

    I’d rather see the LNC focusing on the incredible damage that we just took from the nuke that Root set off. I don’t care if Obama is the Manchurian Candidate, you can’t call him out on something you have no evidence of on national radio and TV.

    As was pointed out by others, we’ve given “them” (“them” being the right-wing media) a way to go after Obama by letting it look like the kooky libertarians are doing it and they’re just reporting the story!

    Wayne got his home run, as he put it. But he did it by batting for the other team.

  40. Stewart Flood


    If you think it is still alive then I will accept that statement. Personally, I have no interest in spearheading a charge of conflict of interest. If you believe that a significant majority (2/3) of the LNC would actually consider taking action then I will certainly come to the meeting and sit in the audience to watch it play out.

    I was a vendor before I was elected as an alternate to the LNC. My company was “fired” before I was elected to the LNC. I intentionally avoided trying to get my project resurrected while serving so that I could not be accused of a conflict of interest.

    Now that I am off the board, we are bringing it back. When it launches, if states want to use it then they can. If they want to pay to use the competition’s system then they can. The supporters of Sarafoogalooga may try to strong-arm states into buying their system, but we won’t do that for our’s.

  41. paulie

    There is an obvious key fact on which you are making an incorrect assumption. The report issue is very much alive.

    I don’t see how, Knedler says he is happy with her report as does every other chair in her region. She says she got additional info on the phone and added it to the reports, and each chair in her region has backed her up including Knedler. Please explain how this horse will rise up.

    I’d rather see the LNC focusing on the incredible damage that we just took from the nuke that Root set off. I don’t care if Obama is the Manchurian Candidate, you can’t call him out on something you have no evidence of on national radio and TV.

    What is the LNC going to do about it? The votes are not there for removal.

    What control do we actually have over Wayne’s mouth or typing fingers?

    Until we have 2/3 plus one to remove….none…unless there’s something I don’t know. If so, please explain what that is.

    What I would like answered is actually this:

    We have this from the latest Phillies newsletter:

    “State Chairs Behind-the-Scenes

    We are advised by a reliable source that a gaggle of state chairs
    are talking quietly behind the scenes, noting that the LNC is not
    effective at advancing the party, and that the serious reform
    efforts have been rejected at the National Convention, leading
    toward the conclusion that a new national organization might be
    needed. The involved group current corresponds to about a
    quarter of the electoral votes in the United States, and in some
    respects might be viewed as otherwise strange bedfellows. Your
    editor has not been involved in these conversations, and has
    only very limited information on them.
    We also hear from LNC members, who shall remain nameless,
    that it seems to be very difficult to push the LNC toward discussing real nuts-and-bolts politics rather than internal politics
    and feuds left over from last term.”

    If anyone knows more about this please give me a call and put me in touch 415-690-6352.

    How can we make the LNC effective at what we are supposed to be doing?

    Can we open up a dialogue with these state chairs about that?

    Anyone know who they are and willing to speak up?

    ‘Cause I would sure like to know.

    Are we fiddling while Rome is burning here?

    -paulie 415-690-6352

    PS MHW at IPR:

    ” I have to agree with Paulie. Where are the materials we need to develop new management? Why is the web site out of date and historically inaccurate? Where is the new and up to date literature?
    I was sadly disappointed to read what was taking place at the last LNC meeting. There must be an effort in place to build this organization and it is not being developed today.”

  42. paulie

    She admitted making the change, which as I understand it was only to Ohio’s portion of the report.

    She said she got additional info from Knedler (or maybe other Ohio officers) on the phone and Knedler says he is happy with her report.

    If you think you can make hay out of that….how?

  43. paulie

    If you believe that a significant majority (2/3) of the LNC would actually consider taking action then I will certainly come to the meeting and sit in the audience to watch it play out.

    That exists neither for removing Jillian nor for removing Wayne.

    On the other hand, the state chairs who are allegedly saying that the LNC is not doing anything to help them – or not nearly enough – in my view have a legitimate beef.

    I would love to know who they are and open a line of dialogue; 415-690-6352 or tell me who I should call.

    If there are concerns I can bring to the LNC, or most especially suggestions for motions, I would love to help.

  44. George Phillies

    @57 Stewart,
    The only place I have heard people discussing removing anyone from the LNC over the question is here, and I am not sure where they think that idea is coming from. I had not heard it before. I will discuss other matters as they seem appropriate, but removal does not to my knowledge have a background basis. (Also, the LNC cannot directly remove Regional Representatives) .

    The assertion “The report issue is very much alive. ” does not mention where it is alive.

  45. paulie

    Maybe so, but if that is case, Rmoney’s taxes are certainly an issue as well.

    Or, we can take the approach that both are a distraction from the real issues.

    If the candidates were somehow disqualified and replaced by, say, Biden and Republican X (where x =/= Ron Paul), would we be any closer to solving this country’s problems? Somehow I think we would not.

  46. just paying attention

    @52 — your basis for your out of the blue description

    If you had been paying attention to what Roseanne was tweeting during the primary race, you would know that Stein’s crypto-Zionism was an issue in the primary. It’s too bad there isn’t a news site devoted to third-party politics that could report on that sort of thing.

    The primary issue being Stein is usually silent on Zionist racism, and when she does comment, she draws a false equivalence between the Palestinian victims and the Zionist occupiers.

  47. just shocked at paulie's racism

    @53 paulie — Your denial is shameful and you should really to apologize to the great statesman Ms. Barr for the racist and anti-Semitic rant you directed at her.

  48. bruuno

    @just whatever- First of all the way you use the words “Zionist” and “Zionism” is flat out creepy and my guess is you don’t know what it is. In fact Roseanne Barr is a Zionist, as is anyone who supports the existence of the state of Israel. People who support a two state solution (myself included) is in fact a ‘Zionist’. Roseanne has even said she plans on running for Prime Minister of Israel (whether she is joking or not is totally up for grabs). The only one here who is coming across as anti-semitic is you.
    As for your repeated ‘communist’ references, again weird and indicates you either don’t know what it means or are just slinging any insult you can think of out there.
    What is evident is that you are a very ignorant person and quite frankly Roseanne would be much better off without people like you openly supporting her. The only one here who deserves an apology is paulie but my guess is he could really care less what a fool like you has to say other than for mere entertainment value.

  49. NewFederalist

    Paulie… what is your opinion of the challenge by the GOP in PA to the petitions of the LP and the CP? Do you think they will survive the challenge?

  50. Paulie

    Just fatuous,

    Make with the specifics or remain the laughing stock that you are.

    Like Jill Stein and Roseanne Barr, I am of mostly Jewish ancestry, and I have relatives who live in Israel right now. I came very close to moving there when we left the USSR.

    Bruuno is absolutely correct about you. And his guess is correct as well.


    We may have some real problems there. For one thing, the board apparently ruled that 20,000 signatures are not valid because they did not include the years on the dates of signing that people put. When you combine that with non-voters who signed, people who moved and put the wrong address, illegible signatures, etc., we could have a serious problem. If the date thing can be overcome in the lawsuit or whatever the mechanics are, we have much more of a fighting chance.

  51. NewFederalist

    Thanks, paulie. I had no idea the LP (and I suppose the CP) were so vulnerable. Next to the “Top Two” crappola this has to be the most damaging election law on the books. Perhaps even worse than high signature requirements like NC and OK.

  52. paulie

    Years on dates….

    The whole thing was done in 2012, could not even legally start in 2011.

    At the same time, myself and the guys I work with get years on dates. It was a function of hiring middleman who kept half or more of the money and got non-experienced, non-libertarian petitioners to get signatures in the hood in Philly without adequate training or screening.

    I don’t want to turn this thread into an airing of petitioner grievances, we have a segregated thread for that (oh noes….more evidence of my “racism,” LOL)…so I don’t want to pursue this tangent further.

  53. Stewart Flood

    The dissatisfaction with national varies from term to term, but is always present as an undercurrent of party politics.

    No matter what the issue is, someone will get upset. By dealing with the damage, I am referring to the states who are so sick of Wayne’s open mouth, insert foot attitude, that they no longer encourage members to join or donate to the national party.

    Others are upset over Oregon, whether they agree or disagree with the LNC’s action or the action of the JC. No one won in that one.

    Wayne is a huge distraction. He gets us a lot of publicity, almost all of which is now becoming negative.

    His ego and his bragging about how great he is are sickening. His actions are not based on principle, but on shameless self-promotion.

    I am tired of even writing about him.

  54. Michael H. Wilson

    Stewart you are correct when you write; The dissatisfaction with national varies from term to term, but is always present as an undercurrent of party politics.

    Unfortunately it is a big issue now because of the lack of constructive work on the part of the LNC.

  55. paulie

    I’ve been asked to submit motions for constructive actions by the LNC.

    Does anyone have proposed language that they want me to float?

  56. LP Observer

    PAULIE and LNC:
    MISSION STATEMENT that says they are in business to ELECT people!

    Set some minimum requirements to even be on that LNC board. Board, management, or business experience at minimum, at least 21 years of age. Although there are some people far older than that who do not qualify for adult behavior.

    Set goals within 3 months of taking office and then be held accountable.

    Focus: ballot access lobbying in states that are tough. Hire professionals to go out and cover LP regions and give guidance on leadership and organization building–40 years and some states are still pathetic in their operations. Get into the 21st century for goodness sakes with IT. The fact that outside groups and the LSLA were going to develope a new platform because the LNC is inept is pathetic! Take a look at some of the best organized and performing states. Reward them, invite them into a weekend strategy meeting and learn from THEM. And pay their way. There are states that are operating BETTER than the LNC. We already know who they are so why are we not asking them. Look at staffing and organization in the national office. Change it up if need be, fire people if need be, but for goodness sakes take a look. More of the same is unnacceptable.

  57. George Phillies

    People from upper management tend to be — not always — incompetent at functioning in a mostly-volunteer organization. Most boards are honorary fundraising bodies, not groups that should be doing real work.

  58. just remaining shocked at paulie's racism

    @70 – Make with the apology or remain the racist you are.

  59. LP Observer

    The LNC has people doing the “real work” in the LP national office. It’s as if all that is done is ask for money, it goes somewhere into the national coffers to pay for salaries, a monthly member list is created, and some ballot access work is done. The LNC have their meetings and discuss policy manual changes, reports, etc. They should be demanding excellence from themselves, the staff, and state affiliates. If you keep doing what you have done, you will simply get what you have got before. I would bet there are some state parties that have measurables, goals, and hold people accountable including their board members. Anyone want to name a few? It may be a volunteer group but we are fighting for our very survival as a party and a country.

  60. paulie

    LP Observer,

    I’m passing your suggestions on to LNC.

    However, minimal requirements for LNC seems to be a bylaws issue. Outside the scope of what LNC can decide.

  61. NewFederalist

    @79… I suggest you carefully re-read your posts. Perhaps they don’t express what you are trying to convey.

  62. paulie

    Don Lake will be at AIP presumably? Robinson and “rainman” (spacing his name, sorry) comment here from time to time.

    Darcy is running for Reform Party so he will be there presumably.

    Ross Levin lives in the Philly area, if he’s there now and has time maybe he’ll attend?

    No other ideas at the moment.

  63. Darryl W. Perry

    I’m looking to raise approximately $1,000 for my campaign for Register of Deeds for Cheshire County, NH. The money will be used to print palm cards, purchase door hanging bags and put towards robo-calling voters.

    If elected, I will work to abolish the office of the Register of Deeds.
    I will also return half of the salary to the County Treasury on the condition that the Treasurer either refund the money to the tax-payers or donate the money to charities of my choice.

    For more information on my campaign, visit

    To donate via chipin, go to

  64. Dennis

    Prediction for the 2012 LP

    2012 is over, and the elections are predictable and therefore meaningless. We’re getting ready for 2013. As far as 2016 with the LP goes, it will be Johnson again, and another loss for them, unless something drastic changes things. I can predict that we’ll get plenty more of the same from the regular cast of clowns on IPR for a very long time.

  65. Sane LP Member

    Looks like some ideas were already posted.
    LP is either a political party or a merry band of pontificators.

  66. LP Observer

    I you don’t take yourself seriously, how can you expect anyone else to take you seriously?

  67. ATBAFT

    ” merry band of pontificators”

    I like it: Pope Geoffrey II
    I see some suggestions at #77. Delegates get to choose LNC reps and don’t always make the best choices. In my experience, some Regional Reps don’t even visit the state conventions of parties in their regions. I’m no longer sure what David
    Nolan expected to happen when he founded the Party. Surely, the first goal of a third party should be to become the balance of power so that the big guys need to address the views of those voters supporting the third party.

  68. NewFederalist

    Ogle… why don’t you show Milnes how to defeat the ban as easily as you do. At least he is entertaining.

  69. Thane Eichenauer

    101, 103,
    Can you offer a comment number or thread reference? I find Ogle worth keeping an eye on, comment wise.
    He who I prefer not to name should not be encouraged to return to this realm. I for one failed to find his posts in any way entertaining. Rarely were they relevant.
    The day someone or some party adopts his avowed strategy which I also choose not to name will certainly be a day to note so that its efficacy or lack thereof may be determined.

  70. Paulie

    He who I prefer not to name should not be encouraged to return to this realm. I for one failed to find his posts in any way entertaining. Rarely were they relevant.

    The day someone or some party adopts his avowed strategy which I also choose not to name will certainly be a day to note so that its efficacy or lack thereof may be determined.

    Reform Party convention is in Philly.


  71. Austin Battenberg

    hey guys. sorry i’ve been missing. As I mentioned before, my computer has a virus. It has dug itself so deep into my computer it pops up even in safe mode. So I am kind of stuck. I plan on bringing the computer to pc guy if my friend can’t fix it. But its in bad shape.

  72. wolfefan

    Hi Daryl @95 –

    I like the idea of the salary return. Why do you insist, however, that the donation be to an unspecified charity of your choice? If I were a voter, that “return the salary” pledge wouldn’t mean much to me if I didn’t have any idea where the money might go (let alone if the Treasurer is allowed to even make such a donation or rebate without additional authority.) Your proposition might be more attractive if you would just go ahead and state what charity or charities would be acceptable to you.

  73. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Good luck, Austin. Have you tried another browser? I couldn’t get anything accomplished with Firefox, but Google Chrome seems to be working.

  74. Darryl W. Perry

    @113 – I’ve been advised that NH law prohibits me from specifying to which charities I would like the money donated. I’m also prohibited from stating that I will donate the money to charity. I’ve also been informed that County Treasurers will not accept a return of salary on conditions.
    The statement is worded in such a way as to let my intentions be known, without putting myself in a position of facing lengthy time in jail.

  75. Nick Kruse

    The following are the number of electoral votes that the major third party candidates are currently on the ballot for:

    Jill Stein: 373 Electoral Votes
    Gary Johnson: 365 Electoral Votes
    Virgil Goode: 187 Electoral Votes
    Rocky Anderson: 130 Electoral Votes

    If Goode is going to have a mathematical chance of winning the presidency based on being on the ballot in enough states, he is going to need to quickly pick up the pace of his campaign’s petitioning.
    And if Johnson is going to say that he will be on the most ballots of any other third party, he needs to make sure he gets ahead of Stein.

  76. paulie


    Which states are you counting for each candidate?

    For example, are you counting Kansas in the done column for Jill Stein as does?

    If you are using please note that it counts all states where signatures have been submitted as being on the ballot, whereas makes the distinction that 34 states have accepted the application to be on the ballot while several others are in the process of checking signatures or litigation.

  77. Steven Wilson

    To Darryl Perry,

    I have heard you were looking for a firm to handle robo calls. ” 2 cent auto calls” is a firm close to you.

    5,000 calls for 100 dollars for a 30 second message.

    1304 Lagrange street
    Boston, MA 02467

    They also have a website is you prefer that. Good luck with your race.

  78. Darryl W. Perry

    @117 & 120
    Nick’s numbers appear to be the same as what is listed on Wikipedia
    Green Party
    Jill Stein, medical doctor from Massachusetts
    Candidate Ballot Access: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, DC, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Washington, West Virginia – (373 Electoral)
    Write-In Candidate Access: Connecticut, Indiana, Missouri, Nevada, North Carolina, South Dakota

    Libertarian Party
    Gary Johnson, former governor of New Mexico
    Candidate Ballot Access: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming – (365 Electoral)

  79. paulie

    Haven’t had a chance to examine the list in detail, but Maryland was submitted by LP and GP at the same time.

    What’s the wikipedia page?

  80. Catholic Trotskyist

    It should be noted that the Elections for the Parliament of the United States were concluded last week. Roseanarchist Party is leading with over 100 of 600 seats.

  81. Catholic Trotskyist

    Members of several third parties have been or are currently, involved with the US Parliament project, including Libertarians Gail Lightfoot and Joy Waymire, former BTP nominee Tiffany Briscoe, American Independent Party leader Markham Robinson, and most importantly, the current Peace and Freedom Party nominee Roseanne Barr. Parliamentary secretary James Ogle has this year attended the California state LP convention and the national LP convention, won the Libertarian presidential primary in Missouri, and has attended other partisan conventions in the past. Therefore the US Parliament project is an important factor in the third party community. The Catholic Trotskyist Party is proud to have won 2 seats in the US Parliament. Much has changed in the Catholic Trotskyist Party during the past several years. While we still endorse Barack Obama in the current presidential election, we also understand the need for alternative voting systems. We are also planning to make a surprising announcement in the September Open thread. I hope my comments are acceptable for this Open Thread.

  82. NewFederalist

    @128… my thoughts exactly! Richard Winger still allows Ogle to screw up his site and take up a lot of space with his nonsense in really important threads. God only knows why he won’t ban him and improve his site. I am actually thinking of abandoning BAN because there is so much trash permitted there.

  83. Ad Hoc

    So, is anyone going to write an article about Andre Barnett getting the Reform Party presidential nomination?

  84. Gary Johnson Needs You !

    #IAmLibertarian Was Our Biggest Twitter Bomb Yet

    Thank you to everyone who participated in this week’s #IAmLibertarian Gary Johnson Twitter bomb! Thousands of people participated – including Penn Jillette – and over 16,300 #IAmLibertarian tweets were posted in 24 hours. It was our most successful Gary Johnson Twitter bomb yet.

    Let’s make the next Twitter bomb even bigger!

    Next Gary Johnson Twitter bomb: Wednesday, August 15th

    Mark your calendars: Gary Johnson Twitter bombs will be held every Wednesday until the election. The next Twitter bomb will be Wednesday, August 15th at 9:00 am PDT / 10:00 am MDT / 11:00 am CDT / 12:00 pm EDT.

    This week’s Twitter bomb hashtag is #LegalizeLiberty. As always, please try to reference @GovGaryJohnson in your tweet if possible.

    For example: “I am voting for @GovGaryJohnson in November because he will #LegalizeLiberty.”

    Please invite your friends, your family, your co-workers, your church members, your Twitter and Facebook friends, and EVERYONE to tweet #LegalizeLiberty next Wednesday morning at 9:00 am PDT / 10:00 am MDT / 11:00 am CDT / 12:00 pm EDT.

    Our goal is to make this Twitter bomb bigger than the last one, and surpass 16,300 tweets. We can do this!

    If you have further questions about the Twitter bomb, please email the campaign at

    Please share Gov. Johnson’s Newest Video: “You Are Libertarian”

    Watch the Video Here:-

    Two-term governor, Gary Johnson says the majority of Americans feel differently about war, marriage equality, drugs, the Patriot Act and the Federal Reserve than our elected officials do. If we the people can agree on the kind of America we want, why do we keep electing leaders who don’t agree with us? When it comes to wanting more freedom, more peace and more prosperity, Gary Johnson agrees with you 100%

  85. Observant Reader

    Ogle has actually improved IPR because he appears to have made Catholic Trotskyist less insane. Remember when he used to post his religious poetry and rants against Ralph Nader? Ever since he found US Parliament, he hasn’t been posting much and when he does post he no longer posts the insane stuff. By banning Ogle and allowing CT to stay just posting occasionally, we can say that we are really grateful to Ogle.

  86. Old Antifederalist

    New Federalist, you should be ashamed for yourself for your uninformed retrograde opinions. And no I am not Ogle; you are welcome to check IP addresses. I am merely a proponent of the distinguished ideology of Old Antifederalism. And don’t bother banning this IP like the communistic enemy of Old antifederalism that you are; I am just visiting my current location for a few days anyway.

  87. Ad Hoc

    So, is anyone going to write an article about Andre Barnett getting the Reform Party presidential nomination?

    Maybe after Hoefling’s 7th ot 8th article?

  88. just whatever

    The new issue of GLOBE has a picture inside of Roseanne reading a previous issue of GLOBE. The magazine she’s reading has a big cover story about aka Obama’s identity fraud scams involving stolen Social Security numbers.

    Has Roseanne contacted WAR to compare notes on Resident Barry’s identity fraud scams?

    Barr & Root working together, that seems unbeatable!

  89. Catholic Trotskyist

    Thanks for all your supportive comments. NF, no it would not be fair to say I have gone to the dark side; I am exploring new avenues in my political direction as the Holy Spirit guides me. I will only post here occasionally, because I have become much busier in my real life, but I will continue to return to IPR to post my important information about the revolutionary synthesis of Christianity and socialism.

    Please pray for the Pope, Please pray for Barack Obama, and Please pray for US Parliament; amen.

  90. Fuck NASA

    2008 GP prez nom Cynthia McKinney will be joining PFP nominee Roseanne Barr Saturday at the conference on chemtrail poisoning

  91. From Der Sidelines

    @145: Yep, they’re the poster children for the damage inflicted, no doubt.

  92. Gary Johnson Needs You !


    Volunteers Needed In Philadelphia August 20-24, 2012

    On August 1, 2012, the Libertarian Party of Pennsylvania submitted nearly 50,000 petition signatures to get Gary Johnson and Judge Gray on the ballot in Pennsylvania. Only 20,601 signatures were required so we qualified for ballot access and as of now Gary Johnson will be on the ballot. However, on August 8, 2012, our petitions were challenged by those we believe are associated with the Republican Party, who fear Gary Johnson will draw votes away from Mitt Romney this November.

    In the first stage of this challenge, there is an allegation that 26,000 petition signers were not registered to vote. While there are no grounds for this statement, the Court has ordered the Libertarian Party to supply a minimum of 20 individuals each day commencing Monday, August 20, 2012 from 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. to check all 26,000 signatures at the Board of Elections to verify whether they are registered voters. If we don’t have those volunteers, we cannot defend this challenge and Gary Johnson will not be on the ballot in Pennsylvania.

    The Commonwealth Court Order reads (in part) as follows:

    The review [of more than 26,000 signatures] will take place at the Philadelphia Board of Elections, 520 N. Delaware Avenue, Philadelphia, PA 19123-4295 and shall be conducted under the supervision of Court personnel with the assistance of City of Philadelphia election employees, with the objective of stipulating to the validity or invalidity of these signatures. Review of challenged signatures will begin on August 20, 2012, at 8:30 a.m… Each party shall have present 20 individuals…who are capable of performing computer searches utilizing the SURE system. City of Philadelphia election employees will instruct these individuals on how to conduct searches on the SURE system. The signature review will continue between the hours of 8:30 a.m. and 5:00 p.m., Monday through Friday until further order of the Court…”

    I call upon all who can make it to Philadelphia the week of August 20-24, 2012 to volunteer to help. I will be there all five (5) days. It would be very helpful if volunteers can participate for multiple days, but even one day will be highly appreciated.

    The Volunteer Coordinator for this effort is Roy Minet, He can be contacted at 717-898-6142 (any time of the day or night) or at He will provide you with more details about how to get to the Philadelphia Board of Elections at 520 N. Delaware Avenue and with respect to parking and lodging issues. Please contact anyone else who may be able to help.

    This is an opportunity for you to obtain valuable political experience while at the same time doing something important to help keep Gary Johnson on the ballot in Pennsylvania.

    If you have any general questions about the current ballot access crisis or about the Libertarian Party of Pennsylvania, do not hesitate to contact me personally.

    In Liberty,

    Dr. Tom Stevens

    LPPA State Chair

    Cell: 718-357-7075


    Politics is a nasty game. The persons who challenged this petition DESERVE a very uncomfortable future !!! Legally of course !!!

  93. Gary Johnson Needs You !

    A recent Letter from the LP stated they need $94,000 to complete the 2012 Ballot Access drive. Anyone who can help will make a huge difference in these final 5 weeks. Someone can give $9,400 today, most can give $94. Whatever you can give will help in this historic effort to finally BREAK the one million vote barrier for a LP POTUS candidate.

    Highly Successful Two-term Gov. Gary Johnson is the most qualified candidate in this race. Let’s help the LP get him on the most state ballots possible….

    ` ` ` ` ~~~ ““
    {Why do} “300 million Americans have {only} 2 choices for president? Can you
    imagine having 2 colors to pick for your car? Red or Blue. No silver, or black w/ chrome rims. No racing yellow or hunter green. Nope – 2 colors, red or blue. The 2 party system has failed us. Our corrupt corporate propaganda media has failed us. You cannot? give 300 million people 2 choices & expect change. They feign fighting on TV while they sleep together at night. We need a 3rd, 4th, 5th choice to fairly represent us” -shwantz2 on youtube

  94. Ad Hoc

    @147 Lists Justice Party, Goode and A3p/Miller as all being on in Arkansas. That petition was in the process of being checked. According to BAN all three of those were since found to have insufficient valid signatures.

    Andre Barnett is listed as on in Mississippi, however it is more likely that the O’Hara clan which controls the Reform Party ballot line will not put him on the ballot there.

    I don’t know whether that means there were any mistakes on the Libertarian and Green listings.

  95. NewFederalist

    @148… even if all 26,000 signatures are disallowed that still leaves nearly 24,000 valid against a requirement of 20,600+. Were some other signatures disallowed by the elections bureau?

  96. fred

    The Presidential race should be a three way race
    –wait it might surprise you–

    If you look at the results when people pick the candidates based on issues (based on the survey in then the presidential race should clearly be a three way race.
    Who should the third candidate be?…..

    …Jill Stein, the Green Party Candidate.
    Jill Stein is clearly third in the contest of who best represents voters state by state. She has a lot of work to do to catch up with the candidates that most closely represent the voters. But its certainly not a done deal for those two leaders, Barack Obama and Gary Johnson.
    Gary Johnson has a slight edge over Obama but Jill Stein could make a difference.

    so what about the obvious omission, Mitt Romney. He didn’t do very well at all. Out of candidates who will be on the ballot in November, he only won one state–and he was behind Ron Paul in that state. With Paul out of the race who will his supporters vote for? In most states Romney didn’t score in the top three.

    Based on peoples view on issues there are three candidates (all who will be on ballots in enough states to win the electoral college vote) who we should be discussing.
    Gary Johnson, Barack Obama, and Jill Stein.

    Lets stop following the media hype about who can win, and start debating which of these three candidates has the policies that will be best to move our country forward.

  97. Dennis

    Okay, I am not sure what the Hell is going on, but I think that an article needs to be posted about Dick McCormick.

    Dick McCormick, the economist and early contender for the Reform Party’s presidential nomination, didn’t attend the national convention and failed to win any delegates; however, he has apparently decided to go independent (which I believe was his intention from the start) and recently held an outdoor campaign rally in Seattle. Dick McCormick has chosen his own brother, Steve McCormick, as his running mate.

    The following video documents the events:

    Petitioning efforts are apparently underway.

  98. Jill Pyeatt

    I’m pleased to see so many articles and discussion on independents and other parties besides the Libertarian Pary the last couple weeks. I know the LP tends to have the majority of articles here lately, so it’s good to see
    so much interested elsewhere.

  99. Ken S

    This posting just showed up on the CNN Facebook site. They admit needing another alternative, but fail to mention the numerous third-party candidates. The most obvious exclusion is Gary Johnson and the Libertarian Party. Since Gary is available to voters in all states and actually has the opportunity to win the electoral college vote, this oversight is horrendous. You may wish to contact CNN or the author of this article and point out their obvious flaw.

    “This year, we’re already saddled with two candidates for president that leave you with the feeling that we should ask for more applications,” writes CNN Opinion contributor Ruben Navarrette Jr. He says that both campaigns aim to scare you from the other candidate. Do you agree?

  100. American American

    No I’m not Ogle I promise. Don’t you think it’s significant though that Ogle and Tiffany Briscoe are now partners? This is very significant for the Third Party community.

  101. American American

    Oh and the article does mention Gary Johnson too. And NF, you are taking a tone like many people that Paulie owns this site, which he does not. Check my IP address; and go ahead and ban it anyway; I’m leaving here Monday; and I’m not where Ogle is. Is making assumptions a staple ideology of New Federalism? I think I’ll convert to Old Antifederalism.

  102. paulie

    No I’m not Ogle I promise

    This is true.

    Don’t you think it’s significant though that Ogle and Tiffany Briscoe are now partners?

    It was obviously meant to be. I’m very happy for both of them.

    Check my IP address; and go ahead and ban it anyway;

    NF can’t check it, but I have, and I have no intention of banning it.

    I think I’ll convert to Old Antifederalism.

    That would be splendid.

  103. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I don’t have anything against Mr Ogle, but I do with Tiffany Briscoe. I have issues with women who lie about their accomplishments. His association with her will not benefit him.

  104. Dan Wright

    Briscoe graduated from college soon after it was exposed that she wasn’t a graduate. I guess her web page reported that fact too soon.

  105. Trent Hill

    “I’m pleased to see so many articles and discussion on independents and other parties besides the Libertarian Pary the last couple weeks. I know the LP tends to have the majority of articles here lately, so it’s good to see
    so much interested elsewhere.”

    I agree. I’ve been happy with alternative coverage. I love being the center of LP news, in many ways, but it’d be great to get more GP/Socialist/Independent coverage.

  106. Rhett R. Smith

    today, I had the honor of meeting Libertarian Presidential Candidate Gary Johnson in San Antonio, Texas. He did not know that I am the Green Party candidate for U.S. Rep. in Texas’ 14th Congressional District (Ron Paul’s District)

  107. Rhett R. Smith

    I am on the local (San Antonio) board of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Earlier this year, AU legal counsel helped a local family defeat Medina Valley I.S.D. and Texas Gov. Rick Perry and Tx Att. Gen. Greg Abbott (filing amicus in U.S.5th circuit) in a First Amendment lawsuit alleging
    “proselytizing” public school students by school district faculty and staff.

  108. Rhett R. Smith

    Perhaps Americans are not surprised that Texas Gov. Rick Perry would “bully” Texas citizens and misuse his public office to “proselytize;” especially after his shameful presidential campaign during which his pastor (who was Baptist or Methodist) referred to other religions as “cults.”

  109. Rhett R. Smith

    I, however, was surprised to learn that , while I was debating Dr. Jill Stein for the Green Party Presidential nomination at Texas’ State Convention, the Texas Republicans were adopting a state party platform calling for “Christianizing” the state of Texas. Now, there can be little doubt that the Texas State Board of Education (SBOE) planned to violate the U.S. Bill of Rights “establishment clause” when they adopted the “American exceptionalism” curriculum for every public school textbook for every student and grade level.

  110. R. D. Holland

    Heard Virgil Goode got on the ballot in IOWA today…. Congratulations! And good luck next week in VIRGINIA with over 20k signatures. The CP could really shake things up some in these two key swing states….

  111. paulie

    Let Gary Johnson debate twitter bomb today.

    Libertarian Party ?@LPNational

    “An emailed statement from the [Libertarian Party] earlier this week carried a rather sensational subject line:…

    John Jay Myers Touring with Gary Johnson in Texas, Talking About Marijuana and What Are Small Wins for…

    @GovGaryJohnson Be informed! #LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson End legal tender laws and pointless wars. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson If you believe that you own yourself. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson Ready for a revolution in American political thought? #LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson will talk about gay rights and gun rights in the same sentence. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson There is nothing less Patriotic than the Patriot act. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson The War on Drugs and the Patriot Act need to end. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson Is taxation theft? Or armed robbery?#LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson Repeal the 16th amendment.#LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson Repeal the 16th amendment, and end the Fed. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson You have the right to defend yourself…from criminals AND government. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson Legalize raw milk. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate #tlot #libertarian #ronpaul

    @GovGaryJohnson will END the FED. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate #tlot

    @GovGaryJohnson Look at Gary Johnson’s successes in New Mexico. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate #tlot #libertarian #ronpaul

    @GovGaryJohnson Your vote is sacred. Shouldn’t you be informed before you use it?#LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    @GovGaryJohnson War with Iran = Bailout for Defense contractors. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate #tlot #libertarian #ronpaul

    @GovGaryJohnson End corporate welfare! #LetGaryJohnsonDebate #tlot #libertarian #ronpaul

    @GovGaryJohnson Remember the Bailouts that both Reps and Dems supported? #LetGaryJohnsonDebate #tlot #libertarian #ronpaul

    @GovGaryJohnson #LetGaryJohnsonDebate to give the rest of America the chance to vote their conscience #tlot #libertarian #ronpaul

    @GovGaryJohnson A democracy must have complete information. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate #tlot #ronpaul

    @GovGaryJohnson End the corn subsidies and sugar tariffs. #LetGaryJohnsonDebate #tlot #ronpaul

    @GovGaryJohnson End the Fed and the Drug War#LetGaryJohnsonDebate #tlot #ronpaul

    @VoteVohra The only Presidential candidate that supports freedom… #LetGaryJohnsonDebate in October. We invite you to join our cause!

    @GovGaryJohnson Tired of Obama’s Drug War and Ryan’s Bailouts? #LetGaryJohnsonDebate

    #LetGaryJohnsonDebate to end our two party system @GovGaryJohnson #tlot #libertarian #ronpaul #romney #obama

    @pennjillette Today we’re holding a Twitter bomb to #LetGaryJohnsonDebate in October. We invite you to join our cause! @GovGaryJohnson

    @judgenap Today we’re holding a Twitter bomb to #LetGaryJohnsonDebate in October. We invite you to join our cause! @GovGaryJohnson

    Tired of candidates who pretend to favor small government until they get in office? Then #LetGaryJohnsonDebate @GovGaryJohnson #tlot

    GET ON TWITTER, and let’s drive Gary Johnson’s name to the top!! LPNational is already…

    Want corporations out of politics? Then we have to make it IMPOSSIBLE for the government to hand out special…

  112. FAN of Dr. STAN


    You WON’T want to miss this event
    Plan to bring your family, neighbors, and friends!

    ANNOUNCING the 2012 Constitution Party of West Virginia State Convention

    DATE: Saturday, September 22, 2012

    TIME: Noon til ? dusk?
    Noon – 1: Social hour / meet & greet
    Noon – 3: Cookout (we provide burgers, dogs, fixings & sodas; Supporters asked to bring other dishes & snacks)
    1:00 – 2: Convention business meeting (formally adopt our state platform and bylaws)
    2:00 – 3: Candidate introductions (we have TWELVE Candidates this year !!)
    3:00 – 5? Purple Donkephant Fundraising Auction (bring your items to donate… and your wallet)
    5:00 – ? Entertainment, local bands (blues gospel), family games (park & table)
    Evening: outdoor movie(s) presentation (to be announced)

    LOCATION: Barboursville Community Park (Cabell County), Shelter #4 (by the ball fields on the map)

    Stay tuned – More information and details to follow.

    Get a cardboard box and start filling it with your leftover yard sale items to donate
    RSVPs not necessary, but GREATLY APPRECIATED so that we can plan for food and beverages. Email us.


  113. Gary Johnson Needs You !

    Available Positions with Arkansans for Gary Johnson!

    Hi All,

    Thanks to those of you who have volunteered to promote the campaign through social media, letter-writing, endorsements, and blogging. We still have many official campaign positions to fill and need to fill them quickly as we are now down to 80 days before the election. Here is a list of the available positions:

    *Finance and Fundraising Chair, Co-Chairs and Captains – the Finance Chair will oversee the state’s direct fundraising activities and finance committee. Within this committee there should be 10 to 20 captains. — Co-Chairs should each have their own committee. Captains directly help solicit donations.

    *Outreach Coordinator – will up a representative at all targeted organizations (NORML, SSDP, Gay Rights groups, Anti-war groups, libertarian organizations, etc) and other supportive organizations. Events will include voter registration drives, supporter sign-ups, rallies, Internet town halls and onsite candidate visits. A goal will be to gather contact information for supporters to add to the campaign database.

    *Congressional District Chairs, County Chairs and City Chairs – this team will oversee disbursement of campaign literature and signs and may also organize rallies and events as needed.

    *Youth and Campus Coordinator – will set up a representative at all college campuses and other youth organizations. Events will include voter registration drives, supporter sign-ups, rallies, Internet town halls and onsite candidate visits. A goal will be to gather contact information for supporters to add to the campaign database.

    If you’re interested in one of the leadership roles, please email your contact information and an outline of your qualifications to me For other roles, just email me the specific role / area of interest to you and we’ll assign you to a team of volunteers.

    In Liberty,

    Eileen Walton
    Arkansas State Director
    Gary Johnson for President 2012
    870.926.6795 cell

    P.S. If you have not already done so, please join the Arkansas Libertarian Party. We are the only political party dedicated to free markets, civil liberties, and peace. You can also renew your membership. Or, you can make a contribution separate from membership.

  114. Libertarian Party Needs Your Support

    LPAR Campaign Kick-Off Picnic!

    Bring the whole family for the state-wide Libertarian Campaign Kick-Off Picnic at The War Memorial Park Pavilion on Sunday, September 9th from noon until … whenever! Libertarian-minded people from all across Arkansas will enjoy an afternoon of hamburgers, hotdogs, political speeches, a bounce house and tattoos for the kiddos, and lots more. Join us for fun and spirited political conversation!

    Every election, we go to the voting booth and hope things will be different. THIS YEAR WILL BE DIFFERENT!!! 2012 will be an historic election because Arkansans will have the opportunity to vote for Libertarian Candidates for the first time ever! This picnic will be a great chance to learn more about the candidates and meet other liberty-minded people from around the state.

    We need you to help us make this event a huge success!

    Bring your whole family and invite your liberty-minded friends. Our BIG crowd will show Central Arkansas that the ideas of More Freedom and Less Government are VERY popular!

    Before we can change the direction of our Nation, we must change the direction of our local politics — here is where that change begins!

    Put it on your calendar now:

    What: Libertarian Campaign Kick-Off Picnic
    Where: The War Memorial Park Pavilion in Little Rock
    When: Sunday, September 9th — from noon until whenever
    Why: To BE the change we want to see in Arkansas!

    In Liberty,

    Rodger Paxton
    Arkansas Libertarian Party
    Arkansas LP Stuff – Get Great Products with the ARLP Logo!

    P.S. If you have not already done so, please join the Arkansas Libertarian Party. We are the only political party dedicated to free markets, civil liberties, and peace. You can also renew your membership. Or, you can make a contribution separate from membership.

  115. Rhett R. Smith

    During the Green Party’s Presidential Nominating Convention, I had the honor of meeting Tiffany Briscoe, as we both attended a Black caucus meeting to discuss Roseanne Barr’s candidacy. Tiffany’s presence and leadership acts to counterbalance America’s historical failing of women of color in both domestic and global policy.

  116. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    The call for info re: the mystery one million dollar donation to the Johnson campaign seems to be getting louder. Does anyone know anything about this? The announcement was made at WAR’s fundraiser on July 13th.

  117. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    So, George @ 184: How does that work? Is there any accountability at all if the money went into a Super PAC? Wouldn’t Gary suddenly have more money available for advertising or something? I’ve only read that he has a quarter of a million available. Could he be holding back the million to get more donations?

  118. NewFederalist

    If it is in a super PAC there should be no coordination between the campaign and the PAC as I understand it.

  119. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    So, can the PAC use it for something or someone else than what the donor wants? Of course, the donor was anonymous, so we don’t know who the money was for, or even who it was intended for, really. Interesting. I really hope Johnson gets it, and in time to make good use of it,

  120. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Paulie, what do you do to update this thread so it shows in the right column?

  121. paulie

    I change the date time stamp.

    I could just do it, or I can talk you through it on the phone so that more people know how.

  122. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    It’s late tonight. Why don’t you do it this time, and I’ll call you next time I notice it needs to be done.


  123. George Phillies

    Readers aware of the rantings of Missouri Republican Senate candidate Todd Akin and his astonishing and seriously wrong claim that women rarely become pregnant via rape may be heartened to note that there is a Libertarian in the race. Jonathan Dine is the LPMO candidate for US Senate.

    As a campaign point, note that Akin’s position on abortion — it should be banned, period — is also the position in the Republican Party position, as opposed to the Romney position on rape and incest exemptions, a position that contradicts the position of his running mate, Congressman Ryan.

  124. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Todd Akin is in the running now for National Idiot,
    a position he can share with Pat Robertson.

  125. bruuno

    Did Buddy Roemer endorse Gary Johnson earlier this month? Did I totally miss that because I saw a passing reference to it in an article today and it was news to me.

  126. George Phillies

    @194 Akin’s position on abortion is identical with the Republican Party Platform position.

    His scientific rationale is up there with Republican positions on global warming, evolution, and whether or not the President was born in Kenya, Indonesia, but the outcome of his position is totally orthodox.*

    No, I did not make this last one up. The source thinks Kenia is a city in Indonesia.

  127. Kevin Knedler

    Akin is Exhibit A of the GOP and why they are losing members like rats jumping off a sinking ship. Totally out of touch with modern reality.

  128. R. D. Holland

    Like New Federalist @ 196, I’d like some info on the CP situation in PA; and also #179, will the WVA CP be introducing Virgil Goode? I was not sure he made it on the ballot in West Virginia. Any updates?

  129. R. D. Holland

    Just read the “Richard Winger” article posted in regard to the CP in Pennsylvania. Disheartening to say the least, especially when combined with the unsuccessful efforts for Goode to get on the ballot in California and Arkansas….

    You know, as a 1st time petitioner, I’ve had a real education this summer. “Ballot Access” was a phrase I had never even heard of, and the two parties in power have the cards stacked in their favor to such a degree that I have my doubts that anyone outside the GOP and Dem Party can ever be elected. Still, I’ll not be voting for either come November, and who knows? When you enter the voting booth and the curtain shuts behind you, anything can happen, and I might just be dead wrong. I just know I will not give the only vote I have to someone who does not deserve it….

  130. just FYI

    Gov. Roemer endorsed the idea that Gov. Johnson should be in the Obama/Romney debates. Johnson’s campaign sent out an email to that effect around the 1st of the month.

  131. Matt Cholko

    R.D. – I would say that it is highly unlikely that any third party candidates will be elected to federal offices anytime soon (except in strange situations where the third party candidate is actually a major party member, like was discussed a couple years ago in Alaska). On the local level, in many areas, third party candidates can and do win regularly. The state level is somewhere in between. Victories there are highly unlikely, but can happen once in a while in some states.

  132. Matt Cholko

    Further, my guess is that the political climate will continue to make third parties seem more attractive to voters. Unfortunately, if any or all third parties show any real signs of improved performance at the polls, I expect we will see more attempts from the Rs and Ds to keep them off of the ballot.

  133. bruuno

    #205-Angus King is going to be elected in Maine this year. Bernie Sanders will also cruise, once again to re-election in Vermont.

  134. Brian Holtz

    More NOTA action in Nevada?

    The First Coming

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The Chair cannot hear the motion-maker;
    Elections fall apart; the recount cannot be held;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the convention,
    The flyer-choked tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is shouted down;
    The rule-followers lack all conviction, while the violators
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the First Coming is at hand.
    The First Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Bylaw 11.8
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with human body and the head of no man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert delegates.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That four decades of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a suspended rule,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Las Vegas to be not-elected?

  135. RedPhillips

    “Akin is Exhibit A of the GOP and why they are losing members like rats jumping off a sinking ship. Totally out of touch with modern reality.”

    Only in Blue America Fantasy Land is the GOP “losing members like rats jumping off a sinking ship.” In Blue America Fantasy Land the 2010 election didn’t really happen and Romney, a poor candidate, isn’t polling competitively.

  136. Losty

    Isn’t King on as an Independent?

    And Didn’t Bernie win on the Progressive line first?

  137. Steve M

    I just sent the following email to

    In the essay:

    you stated “Having said that, Rasmussen Reports will continue to monitor
    the situation. If we see the number supporting “Some Other Candidate”
    rising above the typical levels of 4% to 6%, we will consider adding
    Johnson to the mix.”

    Your poll for New Mexico, released today

    The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone of Likely Voters in the
    state finds Obama earning 52% support, while Romney receives 38% of the
    vote. Nine percent (9%) prefer some other candidate, and one percent
    (1%) are undecided.

    Nine percent is clearly rising above the 4 to 6% threshold.

    An honorable organization, would include Gary Johnson in future New
    Mexico polls and release the information about what percentage
    explicitly said they are going to Vote for Gary Johnson or for the
    Libertarian candidate.

    The question remains, is Rasmussen an honorable organization?


    Stephen Meier

  138. NewFederalist

    @214… Sanders is an independent who caucuses with the Democrats. The question is who will King caucus with? Since the GOP has handed back the Missouri U.S. Senate seat this year that they would have probably picked up before the idiot Republican stuck his (fill in your favorite appendage here) in his mouth, it becomes quite important for those of us hoping for totally divided government to figure that one out.

  139. NewFederalist

    George @ 217… thanks for posting that story. Even without media it looked like he was polling quite well. I wonder why he pulled out? If he doesn’t plan to endorse anyone it seems pointless to throw in the towel.

  140. JT

    Deran, what do you mean, that’s what RP’s campaigns come to?

    So the RNC is playing a video tribute to RP in a lame attempt to court RP supporters. Okay, whatever. That’s not all his campaigns come to.

  141. Matt Cholko

    Regarding GP’s comment @217:

    It sure seems stupid to pull out of the race 2.5 months before election day. What’s the point? Maybe quit spending time and money if you think you’re not accomplishing anything, but why have your name removed from the ballot? I would be f-ing pissed if I had volunteered or donated to his campaign.

  142. Be Rational

    Ohio has a history of seeing Republican operatives arm-twisting Libertarians out of their campaigns and off the ballot in order to assure that an R defeats a D.

    It sounds like Blevins caved to such pressure.

    Maybe someone in Ohio or in the campaign will chime in here.

    It would have been better for the candidate to have used such pressure as an opportunity … Publicize the pressure tactics for fundraising needed for advertising and build on that 12%.

    If we cave in to pressure one time, we’ll get more such pressure in the future, not less.

    Libertarians should run and fight for every office.

    The Ohio LP should be sure to replace the candidate – if possible – with the best possible alternate candidate and saturate this district with as much advertising and outreach as possible.

    We have no business withdrawing or failing to run a candidate to help any D or R in an election.

    We have to destroy and replace the evil, anti-liberty Republican party if we are to achieve a free society in America. It cannot be fixed, changed, redirected, improved or saved.

    As long as the Republican party exists, Liberty in America will be an impossible dream.

    The death of the Republican party is one of the key steps – both essential and unavoidable – on the road to Liberty.

  143. just IRV

    @top3 — Why not use the opportunity created by Top Two discussion to push for instant-runoff voting? Maybe push to get an IRV initiative on the ballot?

  144. wolfefan

    I have been checking the LNCDiscuss Public group over at Yahoo. Can someone with some institutional memory tell me if and how the public group has changed the discussion? Most of the posts are incredibly worthless (not you, Paulie, and a couple of others.) It’s like reading e-mails between high schoolers, with all the name-calling and stuff. Was it always this way? Has making the list more transparent ended up destroying the value of the list? Is the worthwhile discussion being carried on off-list? Because the stuff that’s there is pretty much a waste of bandwidth and storage space and brain cells.

  145. Roger Roots

    Paulie: #159, 170:

    Pussy Riot sucks. I’m all for protest, but I’m not sure their’s was a “pure” protest against state authority. They were, after all, disrupting private church functions, and not exactly on pure “state”- or public property. If I were a parishioner of that particular church I think I would be justified in being a little pissed off over their undeniable trespass.

    Just sayin. Worst of all, their music sucks.

  146. Deran

    @Roger Roots, I’m not big on their music. But Pussy Riot is soldidly left libertarians, feminists. And you misunderstand the role of the Russian Orthodox church. It is in essence the church of the state. And Pussy Riot was beseeching the Mother of God to remove Putin from Russia, they were not making “Blasphemous” statements. besides, the real point is that they were sentenced to two years of hard labor for their political speech. I assume as a libertarian you favor personal rights and opposed to stalinist like labor camps?

  147. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    wolfefan@ 230: I try to keep up with the LNCDiscussPublic list, although I don’t know why I torture myself so much. It really is often a train wreck, with lots of wasted time and typing. I’ve learned invaluable things about some people on the LNC, however, some positive, and some negative. I’d say about half of it is infighting and name-calling, almost always centered around Root.

  148. paulie

    If I were a parishioner of that particular church I think I would be justified in being a little pissed off over their undeniable trespass.


    . It is in essence the church of the state.

    True as well.

    soldidly left libertarians,

    Not aware of their other political views enough to comment.

    And Pussy Riot was beseeching the Mother of God to remove Putin from Russia, they were not making “Blasphemous” statements.

    Actually both.

    the real point is that they were sentenced to two years of hard labor for their political speech.

    That’s the point for me.

  149. Ron Paul Victory 2012

    Breaking News; Ron Paul is set to win at Republican Convention this week…Media will deny it but Ron Paul and his indefatigable and superhuman delegates have a parliammentary strategy (don’t worry New Federalist and Paulie, I’m not talking about US Parliament!) which will hand them the nomination, despite Romney’s supposed lead! All prepare for Ron Paul Republican victory 2012

  150. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Austin @ 239: Thanks for the link. I hope you’re up and running again soon!

  151. Austin Battenberg

    gosh i hope so too. Theoretically I could do it on this laptop, but it is slow, tiny, and a pain in the ass.

  152. paulie

    Hey, Paulie! I figured out how to change the date on this thread!!!

    Kewl…next thing I know I will have to call you to ask you how to do stuff here 😛

    Breaking News; Ron Paul is set to win at Republican Convention this week…Media will deny it but Ron Paul and his indefatigable and superhuman delegates have a parliammentary strategy (don’t worry New Federalist and Paulie, I’m not talking about US Parliament!) which will hand them the nomination, despite Romney’s supposed lead! All prepare for Ron Paul Republican victory 2012

    Would you like to make a bet? How much?

  153. paulie


    Independent Candidate for U.S. Senate Qualifies in Maryland
    August 27th, 2012
    Rob Sobhani’s petition for ballot access has been approved by the State Board of Elections in Maryland. He needed 34,713 valid signatures and he submitted approximately 77,000. He is the first independent candidate for U.S. Senate to qualify in that state since 1976, when Bruce Bradley qualified.

    No Comments »
    Maryland State Board of Elections Approves Green Party and Libertarian Party Petitions
    August 27th, 2012
    On August 27, the Maryland State Board of Elections determined that both the Libertarian Party petition and the Green Party petition have enough valid signatures. Both parties had earlier been told they were on the ballot by a lower state court, which had validated some signatures that the Board had rejected. But then the highest state court, the State Court of Appeals, had reversed the lower court.

    Fortunately, the court acted quickly, so there was time for both parties to gather additional signatures. The additional signatures now mean the two parties are ballot-qualified, and their nominees for all the offices they nominated for will be on the ballot. Thanks to Bob Johnston for this news.

  154. paulie

    My understanding is that we maintained most of them, but lost a few because we were “probational” so if people updated their license during that time, etc, they were switched to no party.

  155. Steve M

    The Rasmussen Daily tracking poll (Aug 27) for Ohio states that 6% plan to vote for Other over the Democratic and Republican Candidates. Rasmussen set his threshold for reporting on Johnson at above 4 to 6%.

  156. NewFederalist

    Any news from PA about the GOP challenege to the LP petitions? Also, has anyone seen what Richard Winger posted over at BAN about a possibility of Johnson/Gray getting booted of the Iowa ballot?

  157. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I realize the above link about Sarah Palin isn’t third party info, but since she intimated last week in some interview that she thought it was time to go third party, I think this 44-page booklet, which was obviously prepared a while ago, is newsworthy here on IPR.

    So, would it be fair to call the GOP convention a moose rodeo?

  158. Steven Berson

    The Modern Whig Party – – a nascent “pragmatic centrist” party, announced their endorsement of independent candidate for President T.J. O’Hara today.

    To my knowledge the Modern Whig’s do not have any ballot access currently and are not petitioning either (although I may be wrong about this) – seems they are just working as an endorsing body right now. I don’t know what TJ O’Hara’s ballot access is either – I assume he is certifying his name as a write-in but couldn’t find any info on his website on this.

    I believe current Reform Party candidate for President Andre Barnett also was seeking the Modern Whig endorsement – but seems to me TJ O’Hara is much more in line with their views as Barnett tends to drift into right-wing semi-theocratic territory from what I’ve seen.

  159. Kimberly Wilder

    Wayne Allen Root’s thinking is bonkers and frivolous.

    I am not even going to post his stupid article that was on a FOX website. Don’t want to give attention to bs.

    But, he made this list of why America is going into a depression. And, he juxtaposed things like 77,000 fed workers who make more than the governors in their state…with providing free lunch to poor kids and illegal immigrants.

    Not very good math. A. I have always heard that hunger is pretty cheap to assuage. B. Assuaging hunger prevents overall violence. C. Feeding the poor is one of those things, that if government didn’t do it, most of us would probably want to chip in for anyway.

    Listing poor kids who get free lunch in a list of horrible exploiters is just nasty and short-sighted.

    PSS – The reason that we have a school lunch program, is that The Black Panther Party started programs like that in the 60’s. If the government doesn’t do it, the Green Party or the progressive radicals will do it. And, take away power from people like Wayne Root and his allies in corporate government, corporate media, and the corporate elite.

  160. paulie

    If the government doesn’t do it, the Green Party or the progressive radicals will do it.

    Many libertarians would as well.

  161. Kimberly Wilder

    Paulie at 258 – I think you are correct. There are many grassroots, sincere political activists of all stripes who would also pitch in to help the poor.

  162. Catholic Trotskyist

    Well Wells definitely didn’t get any delegate votes. Roemer did get 1 and Paul got about 190 according to CSpan. What a disappointment to our dreams of a brokered chaotic convention.

  163. Catholic Trotskyist

    the guy who just sang at the Republican convention is awful! Perhaps a double agent for the Democrats? Or to keep this comment on topic, the Libertarians?

  164. roseanne-rothbard report

    @257 — The Black Panthers walking the talk are the exception to the rule. Numerous studies have found that the loud-mouthed “progressives” agitating for more government spending are the least likely to engage in charitable giving.

  165. L. Ron Paul

    the guy who just sang at the Republican convention is awful! Perhaps a double agent for the Democrats? Or to keep this comment on topic, the Libertarians?

    He’s a secret agent for Roseanne Barr!

  166. Losty

    Don’t think Ohio can replace candidates..

    Also, Husted just certified the statewides:

    Alexander/Mendoza (Socialist)
    Duncan/Johnson (Non-Party Candidate)
    Goode/Clymer (Constitution)
    Johnson/Gray (Libertarian)
    the Reps, The Dems (TBD, but we know)
    Stein/Honkala (Green)

    Also, Scott Rupert (NonParty) for Senate

  167. Thomas L. Knapp


    I haven’t read the Root piece, but school lunch programs are more pernicious than they appear.

    First of all, the point isn’t so much to “feed poor kids” as it is to prop up farm subsidies.

    Secondly, the schools go out of their way to expand use of the program because other federal education funding is tied to the percentage of students in a district who are poor — as defined by “they get free school lunches.”

  168. Deran

    @269 and 270

    Whether it props up farm subsidies is irrelevant to me. Does it feed kids who don’t get fed otherwise? As a member of society I favor feeding people who are hungry. It is also absurd to sugest that the kids getting fed are fake poor people. Out in WA State there is always a big drive by private charities to raise money for summer feeding prohrams for all the kids who’s main meal of the day is at school.

    The problem of the quality of the food served has more to do with mass cooking on an industrial scale.

    It seems, petty, to use hungry kids as an a cudgel against the government.

  169. Deran


    I note how you make reference to how many studies show that progressives don’t do charity, you do not even list a single such study by an independent source.

  170. roseanne-rothbard report

    I note how entitled you think you are to my labor. Get over yourself and do your own research.

  171. Thomas L. Knapp

    Deran @271,

    “It is also absurd to sugest that the kids getting fed are fake poor people.”

    Well, we don’t consider ourselves poor. But when our kids were in “public” school, the district did everything short of holding a gun to our heads to get us to fill out request forms for “free lunches” for them — and even after we refused, they wangled some kind of federal grant where EVERY kid got “free breakfast,” no individual paperwork required, because a certain percentage of students met poverty guidelines.

    So yes, at least SOME of the kids getting “free food” are not actually poor.

    “As a member of society I favor feeding people who are hungry.”

    And as a human being, I favor feeding people who are hungry, too. So if you feed people who are hungry, and I feed people who are hungry, and everyone else who wants to feeds people who are hungry, where’s the need to pull out the “as a member of society” gun on people who might want to spend their money on their own preferences rather than on yours?

    “It seems, petty, to use hungry kids as an a cudgel against the government.”

    Yep. Exactly as petty as it is to use hungry kids as an excuse to rape the taxpayer.

  172. Wes Wagner

    TK @274

    This entire argument is the same thing over and over again.

    As individuals most of us want to do things to create a better world than the one we live it. You are, however, arguing with someone who wants to accomplish those things through evil and immoral means.

    At some point they will push it too far… and good people, like say you and I, will feel compelled to defend ourselves against them, and may perhaps have to take it to the ultimate extreme to do so.

    The lifetime of perverse thought that they have built in their minds of a false morality will actually make them believe they are the heroes (and the victims of horrible selfish people who resist their attempts to “Love” them.. in the Orwellian sense).

    Hopefully if it comes to that the lion’s share of “them” can happily die believing themselves martyrs, and we can then live as free people and help our neighbors rebuild.

    Of course… I do have a fool’s hope that it won’t come to that. Maybe Deran can have an epiphany and we can actually work on building a better world together because he touches off a war in pursuit of his misguided aims.

  173. Join a Third Party

    George Phillies writes:

    Here we have a brilliant innovation for advancing our party!

    Mass Exodus from the Republican Party
    a site organized by Kevin Tuma.

    Tell all your Republican friends! They may join us. They may join the Constitution Party, and I just made a point of complementing someone who did so on the wisdom of his choice for him, given his personal beliefs on key issues.

  174. Thomas L. Knapp

    CM @ 278,

    Interesting — in the post you link, Winger writes:

    “On January 19, 2012, the 9th circuit ruled that trademark law has no relevance to political party names. That decision is Washington State Republican Party v Washington State Grange, 676 F.3d 784”

    I haven’t been unable to find the opinion to read it myself, but I wonder if it finally disposes of the LNC’s fraudulent trademark claim on the name “Libertarian Party.”

  175. Steven Wilson


    If the state system is corrupt, then why would you expect the legal system to be any different?

    The people of Oklahoma obviously don’t want choice on a wide scale. The main parties in America now have gone into escalation. They are now into the courts and legally maintaining power.

    If RJ Harris could not motivate them I don’t think Gary Johnson or Judge Gray would come even close.

    The RNC has Judges and Lawyers. There is no place for truth now.

  176. paulie

    Exchange with a state chair who wrote to the LNC follows. I may start posting articles again in a week or two, but in the meantime I have sent this to IPR email list and am posting it here in case anyone wants to post it.

    Hi Mike, thanks for writing.

    My sense is the votes are not there on the LNC to have 2/3 plus one for removal for cause plus survive an appeal to Judiciary Committee. I don’t think the votes are there even for a censure. I don’t think it would be a close call either.

    Wayne has made the point that he is just the representative for a segment of delegates that voted for him (conservative-libertarians or “Republitarians” as some call them), and is staying on to represent them. From the other side of the fence, Angela Keaton did the same thing two terms ago, running for and winning a second LNC term *after* she concluded that the LP as a whole had become overall detrimental to the cause of liberty.

    Were I in Wayne’s position (or Angela’s then) of effectively seeing the LP as “your party” (as Wayne has put it), I would not seek or accept a spot on the LNC, but at the same time I think attempts to purge or vote LNC members “off the island” whether they be Keaton and Wrights two terms ago or Root and Lieberman this term – especially when the votes are not lined up – are a huge waste of time.

    I suppose a point could be made that it would at least get LNC members on the record as to who would support removal or censure and who would not, but what I would like to see the LNC do instead is focus on a positive agenda of concrete actions which I have been repeatedly calling for on the LNC list to make the committee more useful to the party as a whole, and any time spent on considering censuring or removing LNC members would take away from the time we could possibly hope to have to consider matters involving improving outreach literature, better training for affiliates and party activists, and so on.

    The solutions that I see instead are

    1) Better organization in getting “our” people to the next national convention and better floor management to get better election results in electing the next LNC – we better be ready, because the other side (Wayne and friends) have already said they will step up their game in Columbus from what we saw in Vegas and they will be on their home turf in Columbus…


    2) Better efforts at outreach to non-LP members (college students and others coming primarily from left-libertarian perspectives) along with efforts to sign them up as LP members and delegates to state conventions and the next national convention,

    1 and 2 both working hand in hand.

    I have been publicly and privately calling for these actions for at least 6 years repeatedly and people have largely ignored me, although William Sparkman did some of that with Texas delegates this year which helped improve LNC results quite a bit from my perspective.

    We’ll need a larger and more concerted effort like that in 2014, as I expect one from the “other side”.

    We’ll also need a college outreach effort and a media spokesteam and professional booking agency.

    Anything you can do to help put these things together would be appreciated.

    The closest thing I see to the college and media effort I would like to see is the Gary Johnson campaign, and I am going to spend as much time as I can between now and the election — and hopefully, continuously after that — to help those efforts, as I would like to see others doing. I would think that in New Mexico especially the field should be ripe — UNM and Nob Hill areas in Albuquerque, among many others, are good place to start concerted organizing.

    In order to manage my time better I have also been staying off facebook by and large, but we do also have a great outreach effort there on as well as on twitter ; helping spread, share, like, retweet etc would be of help. If I get back on another facebook spree I’ll be helping to spread the stuff being posted there.

    In my other capacity as a writer for IPR, I am holding off on publishing articles until after the petition drives are over (Sept 7), but I am sending your letter and my response to the other IPR writers to see if they want to publish it.

    Thank you again for writing.

    If you aren’t already, you can see any ensuing discussion at or at if one of our writers chooses to publish it there. Please feel free to share elsewhere as well.

    -paulie 415-690-6352

    On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Libertarian Party of New Mexico wrote:

    It seems that Wayne Allyn Root spent a good bit of June, July and
    August stumping for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan (with a little bit for
    Scott Brown, etc.) on Fox News,, and,
    etc., and then posting about it to his Facebook and Twitter pages.

    This is inexcusable.

    I’ve never been one to join the anti-Root campaigns before, but this
    pushes me over the top.

    I know that he said he was just giving Team Romney some “free advice.”

    How would George Bush have reacted if GEN McChrystal or GEN Petraeus
    had put out a press release with some “free advice” for al-Qaeda or
    the Taliban?

    SHOW ME the “branding” guy from Pepsi who gets ahead by talking up
    Coke in the media.

    The proverbial “Duh” comes to mind here.

    Hey, Wayne, I don’t have any personal animosity towards you. If you
    were JUST an oddsmaker posting predictions, I could let some of this
    slide. If you were JUST a pundit expressing your views, I could let
    some of this slide. And there’s too much, over too long of a time
    span, to blow this off as a “lapse in judgment” or “poor choice of

    But the fact remains that you’re ALSO the current chair of the LNCC,
    sitting on the LNC, and sitting on the Nevada LP’s state-level
    Executive Committee, while stumping for GOP candidates (Mitt Romney
    and Paul Ryan) in direct opposition to the LP’s candidates for the
    same offices (Gary Johnson and Jim Gray).


    I’ve got a few screenshots and saved web pages. Here’s some URLs for
    for your examination (screenshots are attached at the bottom) — I’m
    sure there’s more to be found, so check these URLs, too:

    Articles, Radio Shows Root on 700-WLW


    Mike Blessing
    State Chair, Libertarian Party of New Mexico
    505-515-7015 /

    Who owns you? Who runs your life? Who should — you or someone else?
    Freedom is the answer — what’s the question?

  177. paulie

    I don’t condone it. I just think it’s hard enough to get the LNC to do anything useful without spending yet more time having votes to censure or remove members — especially when the votes will not succeed in removing or even censuring them. I prefer an outwards facing circular firing squad.

  178. NewFederalist

    Any news regarding the ballot access challenge from PA ? It would appear (according to BAN) that the LP took it in the shorts in OK.

  179. bruuno

    I am not an LP member but here are my (pretty much worthless) two cents-
    As I said when this issue (WAR) came up a month or two ago, now is not the time for this. Wait until after the election and then have at it. As far as right now though it simply isn’t worth it. After the election is the time for the bloodletting
    Having said that I also believe it is perfectly reasonable to post the comments from the NM state chair. It certainly qualifies as newsworthy.
    So yes, I am being a total wuss and taking both Mr. Knapp’s and Paulie’s side on this.

  180. paulie

    There are two separate lawsuits in Oklahoma. Haven’t heard an update on PA other than that it is still pending.

  181. paulie

    I haven’t seen Tom take a side on it. Others are free to disagree, but I don’t think the side I take is being a wuss.

  182. bruuno

    #290- Ignore my taking sides comment, I misread something on the other thread. Also I meant I was a wuss, not either you or Mr. Knapp.

  183. Chuck Moulton

    NewFederalist wrote (@287):

    Any news regarding the ballot access challenge from PA ?

    I’ve been helping in PA at the Philadelphia board of elections all week. I wasn’t there the first week. We finished checking all the Philadelphia signatures, which was the bulk of them (the paid petitioners were in Philadelphia). We’ll be doing one more day of checking signatures on Wednesday — this time in Harrisburg to cover all the non-Philadelphia signatures.

    The LP submitted 49,000 signatures in PA. Republicans challenged somewhere between 42,000 and 44,000 of them. We have been going through the challenged signatures line by line. Each day we work 8:30 am – 5:00 pm (with a few Philly government union mandated breaks) at 20 computer stations each with an operator (bureau of elections worker, who types things in), Libertarian, and Republican looking up lines and either stipulating they are invalid, stipulating they are valid, or disagreeing. In the last case a challenge is recorded listing the specific reasons the Republicans believe the signatures are invalid, but the Libertarians don’t stipulate because there is a legal dispute over an issue (like NRA or date) or a factual dispute over whether two signatures are alike. Republican and Libertarian lawyers walk around answering questions and arguing with each other.

    The NRA (not registered at address) legal dispute is when a voter name and signature match up between the petition and the voter record, but the addresses don’t match. Many voters move between the time they sign a petition and the time the records are looked up.

    The date legal dispute is over lines where the signer lists a date with a month and day, but no year. Even though the entire petitioning period was in 2012 and the form wasn’t printed until January of 2012, the Republicans claim failing to list 2012 is a fatal flaw.

    Challenged signatures will basically be put in a bunch of figurative buckets sorted by the reason for the challenge. Any signature that is challenged only for NRA will probably become either valid or invalid without a further look when the judge rules on the NRA issue. The date only challenge will probably be treated similarly. Challenges about whether a signature matches between voter registration and petition will need to be re-checked individually.

    The Libertarians are unlikely to have enough stipulated valid signatures at the end of this line by line review process to make the ballot outright. We’ll pretty much have to win the legal case over the NRA signatures or the bad date signatures. It’s theoretically possible to make the ballot without winning either challenge by getting a reasonable percentage of signatures back during the court’s challenged signature review with handwriting experts, but based on past experience I find it very unlikely that review will even happen. Courts usually find some way to not review the actual evidence (as happened for Ralph Nader in 2004 and Carl Romanelli in 2006, who were fined $80,000 and $90,000 respectively for defending themselves yet were never given an opportunity to present their side of the case).

    My best guess is if the Libertarians win the NRA challenge Johnson is on the ballot and if the Libertarians lose the NRA challenge Johnson is not on the ballot. (The NRA challenge is more likely to prevail than the date challenge.) Because the Libertarians have complied so extensively with the judge (provided 20 volunteers per day for 2 weeks, had responsive lawyers, etc.), I highly doubt court costs and attorney fees (of ~$110,000) will be assessed even if the Libertarians lose. I believe there is a 30% chance Johnson will make the ballot (a 70% chance Johnson will be kicked off the PA ballot). I put it so low not because the Libertarians have a poor case, but rather because PA courts have been so horrible for ballot access in the past. Many of my colleagues are much more optimistic — I think unreasonably so.

    The bright side is even if Gary Johnson doesn’t make the ballot, Bill Redpath has finally learned that Darryl Bonner’s validity rate is horrible — just really, really abysmal — (Bill helped defend the challenge at the board of elections all last week) and many local volunteers defending the challenge have learned how important it is to have easy to read printed names with all the information filled in (signature, printed name, address, city, date w/ year) which will make them better volunteer petitioners in the future.

    It all comes down to the NRA hearing, which I believe will occur on September 12 (someone fact check that and correct me if I’m wrong). If the Johnson campaign cares about PA ballot access, it will fly Gary Johnson to Philadelphia to sit him in the front row of the court room that day. In fact, all the PA statewide candidates ought to be there. We need to fill that court room with other Libertarians too. Additionally the Johnson campaign attorney, LNC attorney, and Richard Winger ought to look at the NRA brief to make damn well sure it’s the most persuasive, thorough, well researched brief they’ve ever seen. Half-assing it means throwing $150,000 down the drain. I am very worried that only the LPPA’s lead attorney will look at the brief before it is filed and he will miss important arguments.

    This is not legal advice. It’s my lay opinion as someone who has been in the trenches and has a long history with the LPPA.

  184. George Phillies

    @292. It is very regrettable to learn this. Hopefully the better alternative will come to place.

    One might wonder in how many states our candidate will actually be on the ballot.

  185. paulie


    Thanks for the update.

    BTW, Darryl just had minor heart failure and a serious lung infection, he is in the hospital. I’m not sure which one. His phone was still on as of a couple of hours ago.

    Andy did try to warn Bill and others about PA, we had people in place there, Andy handled ballot access for PA for the Ron Paul campaign and his family lives there and his brother and father have both petitioned. Unfortunately we got shut out of PA and this is what happened.

    Hopefully we will win.


    No state is yet sure to fail, but several are up in the air. We could get lucky and wind up with 50 plus DC, or unlucky with numbers like Barr (but more significant states likely to be missing).

    Most likely somewhere in between.

  186. paulie

    Also Jill, forgot to tell you, when you change the date on these make sure you are not changing them to a time later than it is when you change it – it becomes a “scheduled” post and disappears from public view ..

  187. Be Rational

    The advice given @282 should be listened to and followed by all.

    Gary Johnson and all the candidates and every available Libertarian should be there.

    Those with legal qualifications and advice should weigh-in ASAP in advance to assist.

    The LP should hire its own coordinators for ballot drives – but only those who actually know how to handle the job.

    Darryl Bonner is a great guy and a productive petitioner. However, his own high numbers have to be carefully monitored by a detail oriented manager to assure quality. He will get sloppy if allowed.

    A good ballot drive coordinator has to be tough and demand perfection and honesty. They must be picky enough and tough enough to refuse to count as part of the total and to refuse to pay for signatures that do not fill in all the blanks and meet rigorous review for quality. Petitioners who realize that they will not be paid for poor quality sigs will either improve or quit – either of which is fine.

  188. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Darryl, I’m glad you’re okay. The other Darryl–I hope you get well soon!

  189. paulie

    The other Darryl doesn’t use computers at all. Not sure I should give out his number. It’s probably been published though.

  190. paulie

    Maybe a very minor god.

    If I’m a god…

    My universe is pretty small; the exits are clearly marked and there’s a much larger universe waiting for you outside.

  191. Bill Wood

    Interesting, guess they don’t know that in Virginia each signature is cross checked with voter rolls by State Board Officials.

  192. Libertarian Party Needs Your Support

    We’re fighting for our lives to keep Johnson/Gary on the ballot in PA – Please help now!

    Libertarian Party Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 2:38 PM

    Dear Fellow Libertarians

    Volunteers are going all-out to keep Libertarians Gov Gary Johnson and Judge Jim Gary on the ballot in Pennsylvania – and our whole slate of statewide PA Libertarian candidates.

    Roy Minet who’s heading the effort to stave off the Republican’s
    challenge, reports:

    “As of late yesterday afternoon, we completed the review of approximately 26,000 petition signatures from the Philadelphia area. The Republicans expected us to fold by about the middle of LAST week. Because of our dedicated and motivated volunteers, we did NOT throw in the towel and are still vigorously fighting the Republican bullies and their battery of dark-suited attorneys.

    “But the battle is not yet over and NOW MOVES TO HARRISBURG.”

    We need help now to win this ballot. We need a few more volunteers next week to be in court and fight the rest of this challenge – and funds to pay for court costs .

    We’ll spend tens of thousands of dollars to fight this ballot – we’re not sure where the tab will end. We immediately need $18,000 to pay our legal bills.

    Would you please donate now as we continue the fight?

    Roy Minet also had this to say:

    “I literally get choked up when I think of all the people who have answered the call to stand up to this gang of bullies. They have come from far and near. Some have stayed for quite a few days in motels. Seven states have been represented from as far away as Colorado! People have taken off work and used their vacation time. Quite a few have come multiple days and a few have answered the call almost every day. Some from other parties have stood shoulder-to-shoulder with us to sustain this effort going into its third week. We have been welded into a unified and effective team by the need to provide voters real choices on the ballot and to overcome the rigged election laws that have been engineered by the two old parties to eliminate their competition!”

    If you can be in Harrisburg Wednesday and/or Thursday, September 5-6 from 9:00am to 5:00pm, please send an email now to

    If you can donate now, please click here and note “PA ballot challenge” in the comment field at the bottom of this form.

    Please do what you can to help. Let’s win this one!

    Thank you!

    Yours in liberty,

    Carla Howell
    Executive Director
    Libertarian National Party

  193. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I’m quite disturbed tonight to read that there are rumors all over the internet that Ron Paul will make a third party run. How could that possibly happen? Even the Daily Paul is asking people to call Gary Johnson and ask him to step aside for Dr. Paul.

    In the first place, I’m excited about Gary Johnson, and I don’t think it’s fair to pressure him to step away and let Ron be our candidate. We elected Johnson; wouldn’t he need permission from the LP body to allow Dr. Paul to run in his place? I just can’t imagine why so many think that’s about to happen.

  194. Darryl W. Perry

    Jill, apparently Ron Paul is making a “big announcement” Tuesday night on Jay Leno.
    There’s a lot of speculation what the announcement will be. I’m curious what it’ll be – may have to find a tv so I can watch it live.

  195. George Phillies

    @314 It is simply too late to make a candidate replacement, assuming that people wanted to do so, in many states.

    @311-@313 Suggesting to the Republican fascists that if they knock our candidate off the ballot in some states, we will — in those states — urge supporters to support the other candidate, to send a message, is a possible response.

  196. Thomas L. Knapp

    Jill at 314,

    If Johnson were to resign as the nominee, the LNC would select his replacement.

    If Johnson recommended Paul as his replacement, and Paul was willing to be his replacement, it seems likely that the LNC would go that way, even though the whole idea is monumentally stupid for a number of reasons (names are already on many ballots, replacing one GOP primary reject with another primary reject is piss-poor branding, etc.).

  197. paulie

    In some states the substitution deadline has passed. In some others there is no substitution allowed at all.

    In Alabama we would have to start over with the petition and the deadline is this Thursday. I could probably still make it for $50k ….IF we were to make the switch by noon today, which is highly unlikely.

    There are other states where there is no substitution and the deadline has passed.

    The rumor mill I have seen is that the announcement will NOT be an endorsement of either Romney or Johnson.

    It is too late for independent or new alt party ballot access in all but a handful of states.

    If the rumors are correct that leaves the possibilities of

    A) an endorsement of Virgil Goode

    B) A general call for people to vote for Johnson, Goode or Stein, as would have been the case in 2008 if Barr had not flubbed it

    C) Like B, minus Stein

    D) Theoretically like C, but Stein and Johnson or Stein and Goode – D seems extremely unlikely though

    E) Ron Paul could seek write-in votes.

    A or E would be bad for the LP; B or C would be good.

  198. George Phillies

    @317 If Johnson withdraws, our candidate is Gray. The VP candidate automatically becomes the P candidate.

    Except, for example, in Massachusetts, where the Libertarian candidate on the ballot in November will for sure be Johnson, as the die has been cast.

    Of Paulie’s choices, (A) appears most consistent with Paul’s actual political opinions, more so than (0) Paul endorses Johnson.

    I will offer an (F). Paul note that he was not allowed to be nominated, because Rmoney rigged the rules, and therefore he asks his followers to organize and form a new political party to contest the 2014 elections, because the Republican Party is so totally corrupt it cannot be reformed. In the mean time, because our election laws create a two-party system, Paul supporters should work actively to defeat Republicans to open a space for the Party of Paul. Here organize also includes the 1856-era approach of having state Republican organizations under Paulista control purge their Romneyrds and jump ship.

  199. Taxation without representation

    We are taking over the Boston Tea Party from the frauds who were privately trying to tax their members without representation much like the current Libertarian Party is doing to its members.

  200. Thomas L. Knapp

    George @ 319,

    Sorry for assuming that if Johnson withdrew in favor of Paul, Gray would likewise withdraw as his replacement.


    The Boston Tea Party never charged dues and was almost entirely forbidden by its own bylaws to raise money. You’re a liar.

  201. Taxation without representation

    @321 Well then it’s your word against another.

    Why should I believe a jerk like you when I can believe and work work with a cool person who isn’t arrogant jerk?

    But we can work with jerks, asshole asn frauds, so naturally we’d welcome you and anyone else back into the new Boston Tea Party, in case you ever wish to rejoin.

  202. Taxation without representation

    #321 My source says that Thomas Knapp was trying to charge candidates money for trying to support the BTP.

    So who is the liar?

  203. Taxation without representation

    Notice the use of the word “almost” in “almost entirely forbidden by its own bylaws to raise money”.

    Knapp is the biggest and fattest hypocrite around, as shown by his own words!

    My source weighs 110 pounds and is female. She’s right on! Knapp is the liar. His own words prove it.

  204. Taxation without representation

    My source recently graduated from college in the spring of 2012, when most colleges have graduation ceremonies.

    Despite being severely disabled by fraud prescription medicine, she’s accomplished many honors.

  205. Taxation without representation

    We are so happy Knapp closed the bogus BTP site. The new BTP doesn’t need him nor do we need the other pompous and arrogant incompetents who cherish the “power” of crushing beautiful people and who work so hard to crush their lofty and idealistic aspirations.

  206. Thomas L. Knapp


    #321 My source says that Thomas Knapp was trying to charge candidates money for trying to support the BTP.

    So who is the liar?

    Your source is.

    I have never attempted to charge anyone money for anything related to the Boston Tea Party apart from:

    1) Making a few 2008 campaign buttons available at the cost of having them produced;

    2) Putting the domain name, which I had paid for since 2006, up for sale once the party dissolved (starting, and ending, bid being approximately the amount I had previously spent making it available to the BTP).

  207. Thomas L. Knapp

    As a side note, I also did not close the site. The outgoing chair closed the site to new content, but the site remained in place — until about an hour ago, that is, when I went ahead and set it to forward to the Vote For Nobody campaign.

    I do retain ownership of the domain name, which I purchased before there was a BTP and which I paid the renewal fees on each year while the BTP existed. I put it up for sale in a sort of tentative way, planning to balance between the size of monetary offers and the use to which it was to be put (the cooler the use, the less I would be willing to take for it).

    The winning offer at the moment (which the buyer hasn’t had time to follow through on yet) is $60 for a libertarian-oriented site. That would just about cover what I’ve spent on the domain over the years.

  208. Larry T

    I still consider myself a BTP member, and in my efforts, will try to get the Florida BTP establish. Then re- establish national. Hopefully.

  209. Kimberly Wilder

    Thanks, Jill! Been busy with personal business stuff. I am doing much less politics. Still some blogging. But, very scattered energy. Hope to settle things out and be more involved again in a few months.

  210. paulie

    Of Paulie’s choices, (A) appears most consistent with Paul’s actual political opinions, more so than (0) Paul endorses Johnson. 80 economic/10 social 80 economic/90 social 80 economic/70 social

    Ron Paul appears to be much closer to Johnson than Goode.

    I will offer an (F). Paul note that he was not allowed to be nominated, because Rmoney rigged the rules, and therefore he asks his followers to organize and form a new political party to contest the 2014 elections, because the Republican Party is so totally corrupt it cannot be reformed. In the mean time, because our election laws create a two-party system, Paul supporters should work actively to defeat Republicans to open a space for the Party of Paul. Here organize also includes the 1856-era approach of having state Republican organizations under Paulista control purge their Romneyrds and jump ship.

    I was only discussing the presidential race.

    I guess I left out the possibility that Paul would endorse Obama, but I don’t think there is any serious chance of that either.

  211. paulie

    If Johnson recommended Paul as his replacement, and Paul was willing to be his replacement, it seems likely that the LNC would go that way,

    Not from the discussions we have had on LNC list. I went over some technical problems with substitution thinking this would be the case, and about the only pushback I got was people taking offense at the very idea (I did not discuss its merits) and adding other technical problems from the standpoint of bylaws and LNC policy manual as well as state election and substitution laws.

  212. Thomas L. Knapp

    Larry T @ 332,

    Good luck! I don’t know of any way in which past officers, etc. of the late BTP could act to impede your efforts. As for myself, I would not attempt to.

  213. Mike Blessing

    For what it’s worth, while I still subscribe to the BTP platform, everybody but me here in New Mexico that could discern the difference between the BTP and the other Tea Party simply wasn’t interested in joining the BTP.

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