Adrian Wyllie, Polling at 13%, Files Lawsuit Over Debate Exclusion

Austin Cassidy at Uncovered Politics reports:

Republican polling firm 0ptiumus has released a survey showing Libertarian nominee Adrian Wyllie climbing to 13% in the Florida governor’s race.

“This week, the two candidates stayed neck and neck, and the only ‘mover’ in the race was Wyllie, who showed gains just outside the margin of error,” said 0ptimus’ founder and analyst Brian Stobie. “We view this is a backlash to the two highly negative campaigns saturating Florida airwaves, particularly from those in our modeled undecided voter universes, who seem to be leading this trend toward Wyllie.”

And:

Adrian Wyllie, the Libertarian candidate for Governor of Florida, has filed a Federal lawsuit aimed at forcing his inclusion in a debate scheduled for October 15, 2014 at Broward College. The suit that debate organizers’ criteria was set arbitrarily and in a manner to specifically exclude the LP’s candidate for governor.

The campaign notes that using the 2006 criteria for inclusion, Wyllie would have earned a spot on stage without much difficulty. To read the full lawsuit, click here.

The complaint in the above link is a 25-page .pdf file.

88 thoughts on “Adrian Wyllie, Polling at 13%, Files Lawsuit Over Debate Exclusion

  1. OrlandoChris

    Floridians should be fuming over this, like him or not, he is running for office and we deserve to hear from him in the debates. LET HIM SPEAK!!
    He absolutely has my vote. It is very clear that he is the best choice.
    The question nobody is asking is, “what are they so afraid of that they would work so hard to make sure he isn’t in the debates”?
    I would NEVER vote for Scott or Crist, period.
    Internet search: 2014 Florida Gubernatorial Candidate Comparison Chart.

  2. Pete Blome

    The lack of legitimacy of the Republicans or Democrats is seen nowhere better than the fact that they exclude competition, but then revel in how they were “chosen” by the electorate. As if it weren’t bad enough that there are public laws in Florida that purposefully exclude third party competition, now supposedly “non-partisan” entities trip over themselves serving the Republicans and Democrats as if the universe would collapse if they weren’t around. This comes hot on the heels of the League of Women Voters being found out for excluding Libertarians and independents from their voter’s guide for 2014, a guide that many Supervisors of elections hand out to the public. It also comes after the Florida Press Association held a forum to “educate the public” about the gubernatorial race, but they invited only the Republican and Democrat contenders, again, as if they were the entire political spectrum. The walls of this façade are coming down, and it may not be 2014, but it is coming soon and it will be a big thud.

  3. Joe Wendt

    Wyllie lacks legitimacy. I have left the LP in Florida because not only because man this not a libertarian, he attracts people who no nothing about Rothbard, Hess, or SEK3. They don’t know and don’t care about Harry Browne or Michael Badnarik. They are the real sheep, blinded by the a slick and polished message that has no substance. May he rot and may the LPF rot for following this cult.

  4. paulie

    nothing about Rothbard, Hess, or SEK3. They don’t know and don’t care about Harry Browne or Michael Badnarik.

    So genuflecting to idols is the essence of libertarianism?

  5. NewFederalist

    “So genuflecting to idols is the essence of libertarianism?”

    Unless it is Wayne Allyn Root! 😉

  6. RIck Adams

    Pete Blome – Couldn’t have put it better myself!

    Jill Pyeatt – Nope, because other debates have been cancelled due to Rick Scott backing out… unsurprisingly those debates would have included Adrian Wyllie.

    In addition to the Broward College debate on Oct. 15th that Wyllie is suing to get into, there is a debate scheduled for Oct. 21st in Jacksonville that will be broadcast on CNN. I doubt Wyllie will be included in that one.

    For a list of the Broward College “debate” sponsors please go to the event’s official website at http://beforeyouvote.org and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Feel free to let them know how you feel about the exclusion like I have.

  7. Thomas L. Knapp

    “He attracts people who no nothing about Rothbard, Hess, or SEK3. They don’t know and don’t care about Harry Browne or Michael Badnarik. They are the real sheep, blinded by the a slick and polished message that has no substance.”

    Hmm. He attracted me. I knew Harry Browne and voted for him for president twice. I was Michael Badnarik’s media coordinator in the 2004 election. I’ve read my SEK3 and I even met him once. Never met Hess or Rothbard, but I know who they are and have read some of their stuff.

    All that said, electoral political campaigns are not about, as Paulie put it, “genuflecting to idols.” They’re about establishing positive name recognition for the candidate and the candidate’s party, establishing rapport with the public on key issues, and GETTING VOTES. I’ve got nothing at all against spreading libertarian ideology, but that’s not what political campaigns are good for.

  8. Andy

    It seems to me that adrian wyllie is spreading libertarian ideology, and he is doing a good job at it from what I’ve observed of his campaign from following it online.

  9. Thomas L. Knapp

    Andy,

    If he is indeed spreading libertarian ideology, I don’t see that there’s anything wrong with that per se, although it would be a poor allocation of resources in my opinion.

    However, I haven’t seen him doing that.

    I’ve seen him talking POLICY, which is not the same thing as ideology.

    He’s talking about what he would do as governor and how that would benefit Floridians, not about the non-aggression principle, etc.

    To be honest, I don’t agree with him entirely on policy. But the next person I meet with whom I agree entirely on policy will probably be the first. And talking about policy is what political candidates do. Ideology comes either before or after that. For people who are already libertarians, it came before. For people who aren’t libertarians yet, it comes after noticing that they agree with the candidate on policy and deciding to look more closely at the candidate’s party.

  10. paulie

    That’s what I meant. Politics doesn’t have to be about some deep intellectual theory and I am not going to be mad if a newbie libertarian hasn’t read the books or doesn’t know the past leaders of the party or movement. If they understand that government is way too big across the board that’s good enough for me.

    Or you can have Joe Wendt’s deep libertarian ideology which led him to support everyone from Alan Keyes and Herman Cain to neo-nazi Billy Roper, and after his (relatively short by my standards) stint in the LP he is now registered to vote as a Constitution Party member (it was a toss up between that and the Reform Party) and plans to vote to re-elect NSGOP Governor Scott. If that’s what studying SEK3 and Rothbard leads to politically, call me a dumb semi-literate SOB and give me a few hundred Wyllie superbrochures to pass out.

  11. Thomas L. Knapp

    Paulie,

    I confess that I don’t understand most of Mr. Wendt’s problems with the Wyllie campaign and the Florida LP, or his past flirtations.

    But I don’t have room to criticize him for going back and forth a bit. While I bit the bullet and campaigned for Barr/Root in 2008 (including but not limited to distributing their campaign literature along with my own when I doorbelled for my congressional race, and in other areas for the LP ticket generally), I couldn’t bring myself to vote for him after his post-nomination repudiation of his pre-nomination-to-get-the-nomination apologies/repudiations; I wrote in Cynthia McKinney. I didn’t vote in 2012; if I had, I’d probably have written in Roseanne Barr.

    When I decided to register to vote again, I wasn’t sure if I would actually vote (I registered as part of my plant to get re-“documented” so I can do things like get on a commercial airplane and so forth). I initially registered No Party Affiliation, although I considered Libertarian or Peace and Freedom. I only changed my registration to LP when I decided to get involved with the party and actually start voting again (sent my absentee ballot in on Monday — voted the LP ticket where there were candidates, voted for an independent for Congress, voted for medical marijuana and against a local tax proposal, etc.).

    Is Wyllie a perfect candidate? Of course not.

    Was Wyllie the best of the candidates seeking the LP’s nomination? Not having participated in or closely watched the nomination process I can’t say for sure, although I did notice that there was a distinct “party establishment steamroller” versus “party rebel uprising” tone to that process.

    But he is in fact the LP’s candidate and having examined the balloted candidates that I know of (Scott, Crist, Wyllie and Khavari), I’m comfortable voting for him, comfortable having his sign in my yard and waving his sign on streetcorners, comfortable biking around town wearing his t-shirt, comfortable encouraging others to vote for him, well aware that he and his campaign have gone out of their way to help local party-builders at least in my area, etc. Others’ mileage may vary.

    Did a two-hour sign wave with two other libertarians (Jote Thompson and Jenny Lyon) at the busiest intersection in Gainesville this evening. Plenty of horn honks, friendly waves and fist-pumps and so forth. I’m planning to rig up a sign on my bike and spend election day riding back and forth on a bike trail right next to and highly visible from Archer Road, a major route into town for commuters. I’ll probably get a map of area polling places and try to get what signs I have up in front of as many of them as possible that morning. And if his performance comes anywhere near his current polling numbers, I’ll consider the campaign a smashing success.

  12. Matt Cholko

    Who is SEK3? For the record, I’ve never read any books by the big libertarian “thinkers.” An article or two, maybe. An excerpt of two, sure. But, why must one read specific authors to be a libertarian?

  13. Thomas L. Knapp

    Matt,

    SEK3 was Samuel Edward Konkin III, the author of The New Libertarian Manifesto and founder of the Movement of the Libertarian Left.

    I met him once. Interesting guy. He was from Canada and a member of the Social Credit Party there before moving to the US and becoming an anarchist.

  14. paulie

    But I don’t have room to criticize him for going back and forth a bit.

    You are somewhat legendary in that regard 🙂

    I think Joe Wendt has you beat though. From a comment I posted in 2011:

    (Wendt’s) website says he was a Ron Paul supporter who switched to Alan Keyes in 2008, supports Cain now but in between was an organizer for the Coffee Party (a lame Democratic Party attempt to copy/ape the Tea Parties).

    In that exchange he first tried to say that he was just someone with a similar name, then that his account had been hacked, but later did say he supported Billy Roper for the BTP nomination but was not aware of Roper’s racist views, which are not exactly a secret.

    I’ve done my own jumping around, albeit, in comparison, at a snail’s pace.

    I was a Democrat with green/democratic socialist leanings in my teens, and politically involved at that; but that whole time I had rather libertarian/anarchist and at times nihilist instincts which I did not quite square up with my politics. By age 20 I was voting Libertarian, and engaged in some LP activities, although I still held some leftist views such as support for the minimum wage. A couple of years later I was an LP member and 100/100 on the quiz. At the time minarchist, not full bore anarchist til IIRC 2000. And, I actualy did vote back in the 1990s: consistently LP in general elections. I’ve been an LP member ever since (about 20 years now).

    I haven’t actually voted in over a decade, due mostly to ID issues, but have remained politically active in many other ways, only some of which involve making a living. Profesionally, and in my reporting hobby, I have worked with all kinds of different parties and ideologies, but I’ve always stayed involved with the LP. Like you, I was alienated by the LP nominating Bob Barr, but I neither quit the party nor campaigned for him; instead I remained in the LP and largely ignored the presidential campaign that year, other than as a reporter and petitioner. I briefly considered supporting McKinney but she did not impress me when I talked to her. I gave some limited support to the BTP but never abandoned the LP.

    At times I have talked about creating libertarian caucuses in the Green or Democratic parties, but never made any serious effort to do anything with that. The only caucus activity I have been really active with is with the radicals in the LP.

  15. Jed Ziggler Post author

    “Who is SEK3? For the record, I’ve never read any books by the big libertarian ‘thinkers.’ An article or two, maybe. An excerpt of two, sure. But, why must one read specific authors to be a libertarian?”

    Pretty much here, and I didn’t know who SEK3 was either until I Binged it. The only real libertarian thinker book I read was Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged, which I enjoyed but didn’t get any profound liberty lessons from it, most of the characters are patently absurd, though they make for interesting enough fiction. The best part is probably D’Anconia’s money speech.

    One mustn’t read certain authors to be a libertarian, nor is there only one way to be a libertarian. We are minarchists, anarchists, left-libertarians, right-libertarians, classical liberals, objectivists, and everything in between, with a common goal of shrinking the size, scope, and power of government. We don’t all agree on the best way to go about it, we’re not a hive mind, and no one candidate or thinker will ever be the ideal figurehead for the movement.

  16. paulie

    I’ve been familiar with the writings of everyone Wendt mentioned for years, most likely before he was. The only ones I have met in person as far as I can remember are Browne and Badnarik, and I never knew either one very well. I don’t think having read a bunch of stuff by these authors, or listened to their speeches, etc., entitles me to look down my nose at other libertarians who haven’t.

    One mustn’t read certain authors to be a libertarian, nor is there only one way to be a libertarian. We are minarchists, anarchists, left-libertarians, right-libertarians, classical liberals, objectivists, and everything in between, with a common goal of shrinking the size, scope, and power of government. We don’t all agree on the best way to go about it, we’re not a hive mind, and no one candidate or thinker will ever be the ideal figurehead for the movement.

    Exactly!

  17. Jill Pyeatt

    Oh, I knew SEK3–Sam Edward Konkin III. He’s a legend around here. He wrote the New Libertarian Manifesto and Introduced Agorism as a philosophy associated with Libertarianism, He died shortly after I started to get involved in the party, and, in fact, Wikipedia is wrong in saying he died in West Los Angeles. He did not. He died in a foothill community a few cities east of mine called Asuza (everything from A to Z in the USA!).We are on the eastern side of Los Angeles (by Pasadena).

    I’ll bet Gene Berkman knew him and most likely could tell us some stories of the early days of the LP where a bunch of these characters lived in an apartment building in Long Beach, CA. His death was one of several untimely deaths we had of important LP members here in the west.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Edward_Konkin_III

  18. paulie

    Konkin was an LP member? I thought he hated the LP and electoral politics. I think he was very briefly involved with the LP in the early 70s but not after that.

  19. Jill Pyeatt

    He certainly went to a lot of the events, but I don’t remember him being involved in electoral events. i don’t know whether he was an LP member or not.

  20. Joe Wendt

    My comment about Wyllie attracting the kind of blind sheep was not properly explained. The people he is attracting are more right-wing and don’t want to be educated about Libertarianism. They justify government control in education, justify anti-bullying regulations, and support some form of government sponsored “fairness.”

    I’ve served locally in the LP and spent all my free time for the past four years trying to reverse a downward trend in my affiliate’s finances, and I was happy to be a Libertarian (and furthering my education in Libertarianism) and willing to help my local party affiliate until this year (FYI, I have been an on and off card carrying member of the LP since 2001). Then these Wyllie people demanded we spend large amounts of money on the Wyllie campaign (after we spent $250 on him the previous month). They didn’t want to spend any money on Wohlsifer, they didn’t want to spend any money on outreach or voter education, or even to just promote the affiliate. They want to be a pro-Wyllie collective and put the local affiliate into poverty, essentially bringing it from $2800 cash on hand in August to a bit over $900 by the end of this month (about $1500 of which went straight to Wyllie). Every time I suggested being a bit more frugal and saving money for the long term, I was essentially but politely rebuked. There is no plan to recoup the money they will spend, just wishful thinking that a connection to Wyllie will result in more donations. I even heard one guy saying that the affiliate’s bank account should be as close to zero as possible to provide the most “help” to Wyllie. Only other person voted against these irresponsible policies at the last meeting (which was Steve LaBianca). It’s frustrating to see the financial gains the affiliate made in the past 3 years being wasted in a few months, and I do not care for the blind group-think and collective attitude in the party.

  21. George Whitfield

    I am glad to have met David Bergland, Harry Browne and Michael Badnarik and proud to have voted for Browne for President twice and Badnarik once. (In 1984 David Bergland was not successful in the ballot petition to be placed on the ballot in Virginia and write-in votes were not allowed.) Actually I have voted for every Libertarian candidate for President since voting for Ed Clark in 1980. And I am happy to have voted for Adrian Wyllie for Governor, Bill Wohlsifer for Attorney General and Lucas Overby for Congress by absentee ballot which I mailed back to Florida two days ago.

  22. Nicholas Sarwark

    SEK3 is probably the most hipster “I knew about him before he was cool/you probably never even heard of him” of the libertarian thinkers, maybe followed by Rose Wilder Lane as a distant second.

    Within the Libertarian Party, I’m going to prefer someone who will burn through shoe leather to sell Libertarian policy to those who haven’t heard the good news over someone who can quote me chapter and verse from “Egalitarianism as a Revolt Against Nature” every day of the week and twice on Sundays. No offense to the philosophers, but we’re a philosophical political party, not a political philosophy society.

  23. Thomas L. Knapp

    Nick,

    I’d put Rothbard as tops in that category, followed by SEK3.

    As far as philosophy goes, among normal people about the most you can expect is that they’ve heard (nasty things about) Ayn Rand.

    My main interest in the LP is as a gateway drug and VERY basic information tool. The LP’s job is to do things like present attractive candidates and policy positions, perhaps — when there’s an opportunity to do so without it seeming like pointless annoying douchebaggery — elaborating a little bit ideologically on why those policy positions should be attractive.

    Some people won’t like those candidates/positions.

    Some people will like those candidates/positions and consider taking the minor step of voting.

    Fewer, but still some, people, will take the more active step of getting involved with the party.

    Some (hopefully most) of the people who get involved with the party will become more consistent ideological libertarians.

    But it all starts with “we are the guys who are on your side, we support [good, or at least better, policy position].”

    Everything else comes AFTER that when you’re approaching it from the electoral political side.

  24. Mickey Mouse

    The main purpose of any Libertarian campaign is to spread the Libertarian message and to grow the party for next year and the year afters elections.

    Unfortunately, the Wyllie campaign is doing the exact opposite.

    I’ve just confirmed that Danielle Alexandre (Wyllie’s hand picked former LPF treasurer, and current campaign manager) has told two individuals, one a hard working activist in a leadership role at the county level, and a different campaign manager for a different Florida candidate to “Stay the fuck away from the Wyllie campaign”.

    I could elaborate much more about Alexandre, but I won’t. If you want to know more, simply type in “Jason Sager Hernando County” on to Google.

    If Wyllie surrounds himself with such character, or lack there of, how can he be fit to reasonably spread the Libertarian message?

    And then, he turns around and uses force to get into the debates. Actions speak louder than words, and this instance, no matter what he says or claims — running to government isn’t Libertarian. Remember Harry Browne refused to accept federal matching funds (stolen money).

  25. Mickey Mouse

    I frankly don’t care if new people are into Mises or Rothbard per se, only that they know and understand that being Libertarian means that you want to shrink government. It falls on candidates and party leadership to explain this yet so often they fail to do so.

  26. paulie

    Joe

    I’ve served locally in the LP and spent all my free time for the past four years trying to reverse a downward trend in my affiliate’s finances, and I was happy to be a Libertarian (and furthering my education in Libertarianism) and willing to help my local party affiliate until this year (FYI, I have been an on and off card carrying member of the LP since 2001). Then these Wyllie people demanded we spend large amounts of money on the Wyllie campaign (after we spent $250 on him the previous month). They didn’t want to spend any money on Wohlsifer, they didn’t want to spend any money on outreach or voter education, or even to just promote the affiliate. They want to be a pro-Wyllie collective and put the local affiliate into poverty, essentially bringing it from $2800 cash on hand in August to a bit over $900 by the end of this month (about $1500 of which went straight to Wyllie). Every time I suggested being a bit more frugal and saving money for the long term, I was essentially but politely rebuked. There is no plan to recoup the money they will spend, just wishful thinking that a connection to Wyllie will result in more donations. I even heard one guy saying that the affiliate’s bank account should be as close to zero as possible to provide the most “help” to Wyllie. Only other person voted against these irresponsible policies at the last meeting (which was Steve LaBianca). It’s frustrating to see the financial gains the affiliate made in the past 3 years being wasted in a few months, and I do not care for the blind group-think and collective attitude in the party.

    A county affiliate with any kind of budget is a relatively rare thing in the LP. Some state affiliates don’t even have one, although I think most states do…but not most counties. I can certainly relate to being extremely frustrated with the operation of the LP at the local, state and even national level. Fortunately, it never led me to do anything as rash as registering with the Constitution Party or voting to re-elect a massively turdly governor over a better polling, better financed, more actively campaigning, more media getting than the run of the mill LP candidate. My shirking, as far as the LP goes, was limited to things like discontinuing my monthly pledge for a number of years, not seeking another term on the state exec comm, or deciding not to be a delegate to a given convention (for example in 2006 – one of only two national conventions I have missed out of eight since I started going, the other being 2002 for work reasons). In the past 20 years I haven’t done any campaigning for Demopublicans other than Ron Paul, who at least is an LP life member and former LP candidate – certainly not anyone like Cain or Keyes, much less Roper. At times, setbacks in party operation and leadership have caused me to become more rather than less involved with the party – the results of the national convention that I missed in 2006 certainly made me decide to get more involved at the national level to help set things straight.

  27. paulie

    I am glad to have met David Bergland, Harry Browne and Michael Badnarik and proud to have voted for Browne for President twice and Badnarik once. (In 1984 David Bergland was not successful in the ballot petition to be placed on the ballot in Virginia and write-in votes were not allowed.) Actually I have voted for every Libertarian candidate for President since voting for Ed Clark in 1980. And I am happy to have voted for Adrian Wyllie for Governor, Bill Wohlsifer for Attorney General and Lucas Overby for Congress by absentee ballot which I mailed back to Florida two days ago.

    George Whitfield continues to be a good example to us all.

    I may have heard of Clark in 1980, but I don’t remember; I was 8 years old and supporting Carter because the other kids liked Reagan. I read Clark’s campaign book about 30 years after the fact and found it to be surprisingly good, given all the bad things I read about Clark from Murray Rothbard and his small circle before that. I know I’ve been to some of the same conventions as Clark but can’t recall whether we have ever been introduced. I definitely heard of Bergland, and met him many years later; I remember his TV commercial coming on the air late at night back to back with LaRouche and helping me get to sleep, and a decade later his book played a large role and helped me become more consistently libertarian. Ron Paul was probably the first LP candidate for president I met while he was campaigning as such (at the Morton Downey Show taping) but I was unfortunately for the Democrats that year – Hart in the primary, Dukakis in the general. Marrou was the first LP presidential candidate that I actually voted for, and the only one since Clark that I am not sure whether I have ever met in person or not. Browne was the first one I actively campaigned for.

  28. Joe Wendt

    Paulie,

    I completely understand your point and I may change my voter’s registration in the future (right now, I am just exploring my options), however, the LPF has changed dramatically from 2011 to now in a negative way. It went from open discussion about the direction of the party and member & candidate recruitment at a local level, to obedience to Republican-lite values and a personality cult. I was even politely downgraded on the local EC from Treasurer to SAA (after being appointed Treasurer earlier this year), because I wasn’t drinking the cool-aid and was advocating fiscal restraint. Before I made any rash decisions with my mentor and friend about what should be done and he gave his blessings before I changed my registration. Now, to be clear, my problem is with the LPF not National (I may renew my national membership unless they nominate Johnson again), and under my affiliate’s bylaw a LP voter is a member of the affiliate, hence why I changed my registration.

    I would love to fight the good fight and hope things get fixed, but I saw what they did to Mike Kane on the State EC, so it’s highly doubtful. They isolated him and lampooned him for advocating accountability and transparency (as well as for believing Libertarians should act like Libertarians). Until the entrenched ruling clique, or more accurately the cult, is removed from the leadership things will not change for the better. Until then, it’s not worth being involved in the LPF.

  29. paulie

    SEK3 is probably the most hipster “I knew about him before he was cool/you probably never even heard of him” of the libertarian thinkers, maybe followed by Rose Wilder Lane as a distant second.

    There’s one area where we have an embarrassment of choices – certainly Peter McWilliams, Roderick Long, Karl Hess and the Tannehills deserve to be better known, among many others.

    Within the Libertarian Party, I’m going to prefer someone who will burn through shoe leather to sell Libertarian policy to those who haven’t heard the good news over someone who can quote me chapter and verse from “Egalitarianism as a Revolt Against Nature” every day of the week and twice on Sundays. No offense to the philosophers, but we’re a philosophical political party, not a political philosophy society.

    Exactly!

  30. paulie

    My main interest in the LP is as a gateway drug and VERY basic information tool. The LP’s job is to do things like present attractive candidates and policy positions, perhaps — when there’s an opportunity to do so without it seeming like pointless annoying douchebaggery — elaborating a little bit ideologically on why those policy positions should be attractive.

    Yep.

  31. paulie

    I’ve just confirmed that Danielle Alexandre (Wyllie’s hand picked former LPF treasurer, and current campaign manager) has told two individuals, one a hard working activist in a leadership role at the county level, and a different campaign manager for a different Florida candidate to “Stay the fuck away from the Wyllie campaign”.

    Personality conflicts among LP activists, or in any other party, have always happened. That doesn’t say anything about any given campaign’s ability to spread a libertarian message to run of the mill voters and citizens.

    And then, he turns around and uses force to get into the debates.

    As I’ve argued – I’d have to check whether that was in this thread or not – I believe that to be retaliatory force rather than initiation of force in this case.

    Remember Harry Browne refused to accept federal matching funds (stolen money).

    Another legitimate argument for libertarians to have, but a separate one. Browne also at least contemplated suing the FEC (I can’t remember off hand whether he actually did or not but he certainly thought and talked about it) so he didn’t categorically rule out “running to government” either.

  32. paulie

    I could elaborate much more about Alexandre, but I won’t. If you want to know more, simply type in “Jason Sager Hernando County” on to Google.

    Spent about 5 minutes reading up on Sager. Apparently he is a right wing activist who has been involved in the conservative protest movement since 9/11 when he lived in NYC and was a counter-protester against marxist anti-war protesters. He’s dressed up as Che Guevara to highlight the fact that the Communist Party USA has turned into a Democratic Party front. He’s been active in 9/12 groups, Tea Parties, and the Campaign for Liberty, run for office and been an officer with the Republican Party, campaigned for Duhbya, and is now apparently endorsed by the Liberty Takeover group (although I did not find a reference to him being in the LP specifically). There was something about him counter-protesting Occupiers and getting sued, although I could not figure out for what exactly. The articles I scanned did not mention Danielle Alexandre. Is there any specific reason I should spend any more time researching this guy?

  33. Joe Wendt

    Also not sure who referred you to look that up, but they should’ve been more specific (like google sager affair, Danielle Alexandre + Jason Sager, Danielle Alexandre + affair). I learned that the hard way when I looked up White House and found a porn site, lol.

  34. paulie

    Danielle Alexandre managed Mr. Sager’s campaign for County Commission and had an extramarital affair with said Mr Sager

    Oh. For a second I thought there could have been something there. An extramarital affair and divorce by a campaign worker? I’m sure that’s unheard of and completely unprecedented, an absolute travesty of all libertarian principle and completely discredits Adrian Wyllie and everything he is trying to do in his campaign and the whole leadership of the state party. Seriously, that’s supposed to be the takeaway from this?

  35. paulie

    Also not sure who referred you to look that up,

    Some character named Mickey Mouse. I actually know who it is, but I am not supposed to tell you. He can let you know himself if he feels like it.

    I looked up White House and found a porn site, lol.

    I know, I had the same problem myself. A few years ago I tried to do a search for “white hoes” online (typing with one hand, you know…) and accidentally stumbled on some government propaganda site. I was completely disgusted, but couldn’t stop looking at it.

  36. Joe Wendt

    Well, from those down here that I’ve discussed the issue with (I think you know whom I’m talking about), her actions were a violation of her marriage contract and shows how hypocritical she is (especially if you’ve met her, because she comes across as better than everyone else). To me it says she’s a slut, but that’s my own biased opinion based on my values. Also the rumor mill (key word, rumor, this is what I’ve heard from others) has it that she’s repeated the same action with a high ranking member of the current State EC.

  37. paulie

    To me it says she’s a slut

    Well, if so, to some of us that’s a good thing 🙂 … or at least a matter between her and whoever she is married to or dating at any given time. I don’t see it as a serious criticism of Wyllie. Stuff like that happens on every campaign that’s big enough to have campaign staff regardless of party or ideology. My interest in politics does not extend to high school politics, at least not to any great extent.

  38. Jill Pyeatt

    You certainly have some serious issues with the LPF, Joe, and it sounds like a good break is in order. Your comment about Danielle ( “To me it says she’s a slut”) seems well out of the political arena and into a personal area, as, frankty, your issues with Mr. Wyllie seem to be. They seemed to have begun as political issues, but now are well into the personal grudge category.

    Mabe there’s someplace you can be effective in your activism and be away from these people who are toxic to you (and probasbly vice versa). Personalities come and go, and within a few years many of the people you have issues with will move on, or at least the mix of personalities will change. Maybe then you’ll feel like re-joining the group.

  39. Jill Pyeatt

    I won’t spend a lot of time on it, but I’m a bit with Paulie that being a slut isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

    Yes, I really just typed that.,

  40. Jed Ziggler Post author

    “I won’t spend a lot of time on it, but I’m a bit with Paulie that being a slut isn’t necessarily a bad thing. ”

    I tend to be even more libertine than I am libertarian, so I’ll agree that being a slut isn’t a bad thing, slut shaming is.

  41. paulie

    I’ll agree that being a slut isn’t a bad thing, slut shaming is.

    The latter depends on whether the slut in question gets off on being shamed. I’m all for consensual slut shaming, but I’m definitely not a fan of the non-consensual variety.

  42. Jed Ziggler Post author

    “The latter depends on whether the slut in question gets off on being shamed. I’m all for consensual slut shaming, but I’m definitely not a fan of the non-consensual variety.”

    Well yeah, obviously it’s different when it’s part of your play.

  43. Mickey Mouse

    So telling people to “stay the fuck away from the Wyllie campaign” is good leadership and good campaign management. Got it.

  44. paulie

    Possibly, depending on who they are, it potentially could be. Or not. Either way it’s petty personal crap that goes on in any campaign of any size. Trust me on this, I have seen it with the establishment parties, the LP, little commie sects…you name it. It tells me nothing about Wyllie’s broader outreach to the general public.

  45. Mickey Mouse

    It shows that the people he surrounds himself with care nothing about building the Libertarian Party, and everything about promoting their exclusive club. I can’t but wonder about people who blindly accept such actions as “petty personal crap”.

  46. paulie

    Just giving you an outside view.

    I’ve worked on campaigns and there were some toxic personalities that I did not want anywhere near the campaigns I was working on because in my judgement they would be counterproductive if they participated. I could regale you with stories but it seems dreary.

    Anyway, yes, it is petty personal crap, and yes it does go on with bigger and smaller parties too.

    I don’t blindly accept it nor do I have any idea who was in the right since I am on the outside and for that matter don’t even know who exactly you are talking about being told to fuck off.

    The thing I can say is that there are a lot of campaigns going on that can use your time and efforts. If there’s one that you are not getting along with or don’t care for it’s a lot more productive to spend your time working on some of the other ones than going on here and running the one you don’t like down. Especially when the best we are getting is that someone cheated on and divorced her husband and somebody told someone else to go fly a kite.

    If that’s not in the dictionary along with the definition of petty personal crap then what is?

  47. Mickey Mouse

    I’ve worked on campaigns that involved people of character that brought activists together and built the party. That’s the why we do this.

  48. Thomas L. Knapp

    “That’s the why we do this.”

    You got a mouse in your pocket or something? Different people do different things for different reasons. It’s not obvious that all those things and all those reasons have to be your things and your reasons.

  49. David

    Did any of those 20 minute Ed Clark campaign Ads every get released to the web? I’ve yet to see them anywhere?

  50. paulie

    I haven’t been able to find them on the web.

    BTW back to the subject of this thread, just got an email from the Wyllie campaign that their poll numbers are rising, rather than falling, as we get closer to the election – now in the 14-15% range in at least two polls.

  51. Thomas L. Knapp

    On the one hand, one normally expects a third party candidate’s poll numbers to go down as the election gets closer — the undecideds throw in with one of the Big Two and some of the decided Libertarians get scared that the “bigger evil” will win and defect to their less hated of the Big Two.

    But this is an interesting election. I’ve never seen one where BOTH of the Big Two are so roundly unpopular. I was out this morning at a garage sale wearing my Wyllie t-shirt and the lady asked me completely unprompted who Wyllie is. Before I could answer, her son said “he’s the Libertarian running for governor, he’s the one you want to vote for.” And she said something to the effect of “well, I’m sure as hell not voting for Scott or Crist.”

    I usually pay attention to campaign signage. So far in Gainesville I’ve noticed one Scott sign (small roadside billboard style), no Crist signs and several Wyllie yard signs.

    We did a sign wave on Friday at the busiest intersection in Gainesville. My understanding is that Alex Snitker spent several days on the road getting bigger-than-yard-sign signs out to a bunch of cities and that this occurred in several tens of cities and towns around the state on Friday.

    There was an opportunity for sign-showing yesterday that I completely spaced out on. We went into town to do some shopping and there was lots of traffic — a University of Florida home game. Unfortunately I didn’t have a sign with me or I’d have had Tamara drop me off at the corner of 13th and University to sign-wave for awhile.

    Different people pay attention to different things. I haven’t paid close attention to Wyllie’s interviews and so forth, but what I have paid attention to is his campaign ground game and frankly it is professional. Lots of personal appearances (at least one in Gainesville so far and another coming up), volunteer phone banking, brochure distribution, etc.

    I will not be surprised if he breaks 10% on election day. On the other hand, I won’t be surprised if he doesn’t, either. All you can do is work your ass off. The voters have to do the rest.

  52. paulie

    On the one hand, one normally expects a third party candidate’s poll numbers to go down as the election gets closer — the undecideds throw in with one of the Big Two and some of the decided Libertarians get scared that the “bigger evil” will win and defect to their less hated of the Big Two.

    On rare occasions that is not the case, for example Ventura in MN. This could be one of those rare occasions. Even if it’s not, good poll numbers for Wyllie make an Overby upset less implausible. Of course, both are still long shots, but not as long as your typical LP race for Governor or US House.

  53. Andy

    Paul said: “On rare occasions that is not the case, for example Ventura in MN. This could be one of those rare occasions.”

    Jesse Ventura had the advantage of Minnesota being one of the few states that had election day voter registration, that is that people in Minnesota who were eligible to vote but who were not registered to vote could register to vote at the polling places and then vote right after that. Florida does not have election day voter registration.

    I made the suggestion for the LP of Florida to run a voter registration drive to help LP candidate for US House, Lucas Overby, as well as Adrian Wyllie, and all of the candidates and the party in general, but unfortunately the funding for this never materialized.

  54. paulie

    Yes, Ventura had a number of other advantages that Wyllie does not have either. On the other hand Wyllie may have some advantages that Ventura did not have.

    I agree about a voter registration drive. I sugested the same thing. Too bad it did not come together.

    I’d still like to do one there between now and 2016 to help build off this election and in preparation for the national convention. If we can get a lot of party members active there between now and then we could have a much larger turnout to the convention, which will make us look like a bigger and better party and hopefully lead to a positive energy spiral.

  55. Andy

    “Joe Wendt October 9, 2014 at 10:38 pm
    Wyllie lacks legitimacy. I have left the LP in Florida because not only because man this not a libertarian, he attracts people who no nothing about Rothbard, Hess, or SEK3. They don’t know and don’t care about Harry Browne or Michael Badnarik. They are the real sheep, blinded by the a slick and polished message that has no substance. May he rot and may the LPF rot for following this cult.”

    It sounds to me like Adrian Wyllie is attracting a lot of new people to the party. This is a good thing. I found out about the Libertarian Party back in 1996, and at the time I did not know who any of those people were, except for Harry Browne, and that was only because he was the one who I saw on C-SPAN that inspired me to join the party.

  56. Andy

    Paul said: “(Wendt’s) website says he was a Ron Paul supporter who switched to Alan Keyes in 2008, supports Cain now but in between was an organizer for the Coffee Party (a lame Democratic Party attempt to copy/ape the Tea Parties).

    In that exchange he first tried to say that he was just someone with a similar name, then that his account had been hacked, but later did say he supported Billy Roper for the BTP nomination but was not aware of Roper’s racist views, which are not exactly a secret.”

    The frequent party and ideology jumping, along with the relentless, and I would say mindless, bashing of the Adrian Wyllie campaign, strikes me as being suspicious, as it sounds like government provocateur/saboteur type of behavior.

    I’ve been following Libertarian Party campaigns since 1996. I’ve seen good ones, and I’ve seen bad ones, and I’ve seen a lot of in between. Adrian Wyllie appears to be doing a good job from what I’ve seen from following his campaign online. I’ve never met Adrian Wyllie, and the only things that I know about him are what I’ve seen about him online. From what I can tell, he’s running a real campaign. Sure, he does not have the big money like the Democrats and Republicans do, but not many minor party or independent candidates are capable of that. The Wyllie campaign is doing a lot of a small budget.

    I’ve seen a lot of Libertarian Party campaigns over the years, and yes, I’ve seen some half ass ones, and I’ve seen ones from people who really should not have even been candidates. I have not seen or heard of anything that leads me to believe that the Adrian Wyllie campaign falls into either category (as in having a half ass campaign, or Wyllie not being candidate material). I’ve watched some of Wyllie’s speeches on YouTube, and I thought he was good.

    Wyllie has been travelling around Florida giving speeches. Wyllie has gotten media coverage. Wyllie is mobilizing supporters around Florida. Wyllie’s polling numbers have gone up to 13%, and keep in mind that he is in a 5 way race, as there are two independent candidates in addition to the Republican and Democratic candidates in the race, so it is not as though Wyllie is the only other choice in the race besides Republican and Democrat.

    Can anyone name a Libertarian Party campaign for Governor of Florida that has been better than this one? I am not aware of one.

  57. Joe Wendt

    Yes, I spent 3 years of my life and all of my free-time on a county EC, slowly helping to rebuild my affiliate’s finances and was the driving force for my affiliate to host this year’s State Convention because I’m a government provocateur/saboteur… yeah that total makes sense to waste my time and money like that while I struggle to make ends met. I’m probably also a reptilian and a member of the Illuminati, because I don’t like Wyllie and I am a George Phillies fan.

    After reading that accusation, I am now happier than ever that I am out of the LPF, and will watch gleefully as Wyllie fails in a most epic fashion (and rub it in their face). Thanks for erasing any doubt I had about my decision.

  58. Andy

    It is a known fact that the government sends plants into organizations, and that government plants have gotten on committees, and even become chairs of organizations that they have infiltrated.

    Funny to see somebody questioning the libertarian purity of some campaign supporters when the person doing the complaining has been a supporter of newt gingrich, herman cain, alan keyes, and billy roper, all within the last 2 or 3 years.

  59. Thomas L. Knapp

    “the University of North Florida (UNF) released their INDEPENDENT poll showing Adrian with 14.74% (with MOE).”

    Um, no. The UNF poll has Wyllie at 10%. The UNF poll has a margin of error (MOE) of 4.74%. That is not anything like the same thing as the UNF poll having Wyllie at 14.74%. Margin of error is a total of the plausible variation across Crist, Scott and Wyllie, undecided and other candidates.

    Fudging poll numbers like that is a very bad idea. It makes the campaign look dishonest.

  60. Mike Kane

    In fairness, Adrian Wyllie FINALLY added an LPF.org link to his website.

    I think a lot of good people made a lot of good points on this thread.

    Regardless of how I feel personally about Adrian my county affiliate has shown interest in supporting him. And we are doing so.

    We are also supporting Bill Wohlisifer for Attorney General.

    Mike Kane
    Chair- Libertarian Party of the Florida Keys

  61. paulie

    From the Wyllie campaign:

    Here is the latest on the debate: The judge compelled the lawyers for the debate organizers to respond yesterday. The attorneys for the other side did respond.

    The judge is now reviewing our complaint and their response and will decide if our case should receive a hearing. If he decides it does, than we will have a hearing and the judge will hear oral arguments and make a decision.

    We are confident that our attorneys have made a compelling case for the judge and we will prevail.

    No matter what the judge decides we need EVERYONE that can possibly make it to Broward College to be there. If you have signs BRING THEM!! Wear your shirts! I have buttons or bring your own. We need the biggest crowd we can possibly make to be outside of that debate to welcome Adrian in as he enters the debate or be together to protest.

  62. paulie

    I think a lot of good people made a lot of good points on this thread.

    Regardless of how I feel personally about Adrian my county affiliate has shown interest in supporting him. And we are doing so.

    We are also supporting Bill Wohlisifer for Attorney General.

    Mike Kane

    Thank you. Keep up the good work!

  63. Joe Wendt

    When you have some supporters call Wyllie the “better true conservative” on a facebook post, you really should look at those individuals and question their motives. Because their the ones advocating that my former affiliate should go into poverty to help Wyllie. I’m sure there are some government provocateurs/saboteurs, your just looking in the wrong spot and the wrong people. You want to focus on someone’s past support, fine. Pete Blome publicly endorsed Romney, and is still on the LPF EC. Dana Cumming’s wasn’t a member of the Party until she decided to run for State Chair (2013), the same for Snitker when he wanted to run for US Senate (2010). Look that way, maybe you’ll find the provocateurs/saboteurs you’re looking for.

  64. paulie

    When you have some supporters call Wyllie the “better true conservative” on a facebook post, you really should look at those individuals and question their motives.

    Is that what Wyllie is calling himself? Because you can’t control what all your supporters say.

  65. Pete Blome

    For Joe Wendt…Somebody long ago told me that trying to wrestle a pig is a losing proposition. All that happens is you get dirty and the pig likes it. Despite that piece of self-evident wisdom, I’m calling you on the line I publicly endorsed Romney. I never endorsed Romney publicly or privately.

    I was working as campaign manager for Fretts for Congress (LPF) in 2012, and only made a couple of public statements on Romney/Obama, most notably coming out against him in regards to his record on gun control and the Affordable Healthcare Act. I made the argument he was, at best, a difference in kind but not in nature when compared to Obama.

    Wherever you are getting your information from, you should consider getting an upgrade. But, then again, that would force you to change the obviously delicious hate you have building for the LPF, and we both know you’re not gonna do that.

  66. Andy

    “Pete Blome October 14, 2014 at 6:39 pm
    For Joe Wendt…Somebody long ago told me that trying to wrestle a pig is a losing proposition. All that happens is you get dirty and the pig likes it. Despite that piece of self-evident wisdom, I’m calling you on the line I publicly endorsed Romney. I never endorsed Romney publicly or privately.”

    Hmmmmm, so it sounds like Joe Wendt lied about Pete Blome. Lying about activists as a way to smear them is another tactic of a government saboteur/provocateur.

  67. paulie

    Maybe he lied, maybe he was misinformed, maybe …? I don’t know and I am not jumping to the assumption that any person on either side of the split is a saboteur, although it’s certainly possible that some people on either or both sides are. If you could tell who the informants are from the way they act publicly they would be easy to spot and identify and thus less effective at fulfilling their function. It does no good to go around throwing accusations especially when all you are doing is guessing.

  68. Andy

    “paulie October 14, 2014 at 10:55 pm
    Maybe he lied, maybe he was misinformed, maybe …?”

    There seems to be a lot of maybes surrounding this Joe Wendt guy. Yeah, maybe he’s just a nutcase, or maybe he is a government plant. Either way, it sounds to me like the Libertarian Party is better off without him.

    “I don’t know and I am not jumping to the assumption that any person on either side of the split is a saboteur, although it’s certainly possible that some people on either or both sides are.”

    I’m not jumping to any assumptions. I never said that Joe Wendt was a government plant, I said that he was acting like one. This was speculation on my behalf, but it is based on his behavior. Such as:

    1) Relentlessly attacking the most successful campaign for Governor of Florida that the Libertarian Party has ever had.

    2) Party and ideology jumping. Going from Ron Paul to Herman Cain to Newt Gingrich to Alan Keyes to Billy Roper to etc… He’s in the LP, then he’s out of the LP. He’s hot and then he’s cold. Etc…. Also, how did he not know that Billy Roper is a Neo Nazi? I did a Google search for Billy Roper and the first links that popped up were about Billy Roper the Neo Nazi. Does Joe Wendt make it a habit to endorse candidates that he does not know anything about, or was he lying?

    3) Obtaining a place on a county committee (government plants seek positions of power within organizations. If you want to find plants in the LP or any other organization, the first place to look is the people who get committee seats.).

    4) Making the ridiculous claim that the Wyllie campaign wants the county party where he has a seat to “spend themselves broke” promoting his campaign. Whether this is true or not, political parties are SUPPOSED to spend money on campaigns. Running and promoting candidates is what political parties are SUPPOSED to do. Anyone who does not understand this should not be involved in a political party. Also, it is not as though the county party can’t raise more money. This is another thing that political parties do. Spend money to promote the party and candidates, and work to recruit more people so you can raise more money to further promote the party and candidates.

    5) Falsely claiming that Pete Blome endorsed Mitt Romney when Pete Blome has come on this thread and said that he never endorsed Mitt Romney.

    6) Making the absurd claim that Wyllie supporters don’t know who Murray Rothbard, Karl Hess, SEK3, Harry Browne, and Michael Badnarik are, and that this is proof that Wyllie supporters are not libertarians. First off, how does he know that no supporters of Adrian Wyllie know who any of these people were/are? Has he taken a survey, and if so, how many Wyllie supporters has he surveyed? Second of all, what difference does it make? Being able to name Libertarian philosophers or candidates from the past does not necessarily mean anything. If Wyllie is bringing in lots of new people to the party/movement, maybe they don’t know who any of these past philosophers and candidates. I did not know who any of these people were besides Harry Browne when I joined the party back in 1996, and I only knew who Harry Browne was because he was the candidate for President that year and he was also the one who I saw on C-SPAN who inspired me to join the party. Furthermore, considering Joe Wendt’s party and ideology jumping, who is he to criticize others for not knowing philosophers or candidates from the past?

    7) Criticizing Wyllie for giving speeches at brew pubs across Florida. This was an idiotic criticism. So what, he gave some speeches at brew pubs. How was this a bad thing? Sure, I’d love it if he could have done this at larger venues, but the brew pub tour was a cool and creative way to get his message out to a lot of people who may not have heard it otherwise.

    8) Saying that he wants to sit back and watch Wyllie fail from afar. This presumes that anyone – including Adrian Wyllie himself – really believes that he’s going to get elected Governor. I doubt that anyone thinks this. Wyllie’s campaign has already been a big success, because it has raised the visibility of the Libertarian Party in Florida, more so than any other Libertarian Party campaign has in Florida of which I am aware. It should also once again be pointed out that Wyllie is competing in a 5 way race, so it is not like he is the only alternative to the Democrat and the Republican.

    “If you could tell who the informants are from the way they act publicly they would be easy to spot and identify and thus less effective at fulfilling their function.”

    Look at the people who cause dysfunction in organizations. Look at the people who attack those who are actually promoting the message and growing the organization. Look to those who seek to be in positions of power in said organization (Plants are likely to seek committee seats, or other positions of power, because from there they can overtly or covertly sabotage the organization. Some will do damage in ways that are obvious, others will do damage in ways that are not going to be obvious to most people.).

    Government plants serve different functions. Some will conduct their sabotage in obvious ways, while others will be more covert about it. Some will be people within an organization that most people in the organization would not expect, but this does not mean that others would not conduct sabotage in a more obvious manner.

    Again, none of these proves that Joe Wendt is a plant. I’m just pointing out a pattern of suspicious behavior.

    I have been seeing this Joe Wendt character popping up here for months whining about the Wyllie campaign. Like I said before, I do not know Adrian Wyllie. He seems like a good guy, but who knows, maybe he’s a jackass in person. I can only go by the videos I’ve watched and the articles that I’ve read online about Wyllie’s campaign, and from what I’ve seen and read about his campaign, I am impressed, and I do not impress easily.

    If Adrian Wyllie is a bad guy or a lousy candidate, or if his campaign is some kind of horrible thing for the party, Joe Wendt has done a very poor job of showing any evidence to back this up. I’ve read a bunch of his posts where he whines about the Wyllie campaign, but I’ve yet to see any complaint that has any substance behind it.

  69. paulie

    From the Wyllie Campaign:

    Adrian Wylie, Libertarian candidate for governor of Florida, is calling into question the relationship between Dean Ridings, the Florida Press Association and the Democrat Party of Florida and possibly Charlie Crist. This is while the Florida Press Association and Leadership Florida, two organizations that Mr. Ridings serves on the board for, were successful in federal court to exclude Mr. Wyllie from the largest televised gubernatorial debate in 2014.

    These claims stem from a subsidiary of the Florida Press Association, Intersect Media Solution’s conducting business with a well known Democratic consulting firm Greer, Margolis, Mitchell and Burn ( aka GMMB) and their interactions with Democrat candidate Charlie Crist.

    Intersect Media Solutions, who is owned by the Florida Press Association’s for-profit company, Florida Press Services, provides marketing research and media advertising purchases for marketing companies around the state and country. One of their clients, Greer, Margolis, Mitchell and Burns is a political consulting firm located on K Street in Washington DC and is known for running campaigns for major Democrat candidates including Barrack Obama and most recently Charlie Crist.

    GMMB’s partner, Brad Perseke said, “I call them for virtually all of our newspaper advertising. Working together with Intersect Media Solutions, our agency can focus on all aspects of a client’s campaign while with Intersect Media Solutions’ [sic] provides us with the necessary research and data needed for effective newspaper advertising,” when speaking of their relationship with Intersect Media Solutions.

    This election cycle alone GMMB has done extensive work with the Charlie Crist campaign and the Democrat Party of Florida. The company [Greer, Margolis, Mitchell and Burns] has been paid $6,455,903.22 this election cycle with $1,888,859.67 coming from Charlie Crist, $4,101,653.40 from the Democrat Party of Florida and $465,390.15 coming from SEIU of Florida. While it is unclear if GMMB used Intersect Media Solutions for either Charlie Crist or the Democrat Party of Florida in this year’s gubernatorial election, it is clear that Intersect Media Solutions does and has profited from the Democrat Party and it’s candidates.

    The Florida Press Association and Leadership Florida set debate criteria in August of this year, after having the knowledge that Adrian would be polling at least as high as 12% and, at the time, slightly hurting Charlie Crist. The board member that sits on both boards that makes that decision is Dean Ridings who is not only the president of the Florida Press Association and Intersect Media Solutions but also sits on the board of directors of Leadership Florida.

    “At this point, given the circumstantial evidence of an incestious, multi-million dollar relationship between Dean Ridings, GMMB, and Charlie Crist, I have to call into question whether this was the ultimate reason for my exclusion in the debate,” said Wyllie. “It is clear to me now that when Ridings set the debate criteria specifically to exclude me, it was not based on public interest — it was based on personal profit motive.”

    The campaign is concerned that this may call into question whether this organization can be a trusted source to the people of Florida when the president of the Florida Press Association and the association itself, through it’s subsidiaries, profits from candidates and campaigns. While it does not change the outcome of Wyllie’s inclusion into the debate, it is something that must be considered by the people of Florida.

    Danielle Alexandre
    Campaign Manager
    Wyllie for Governor

    This does not change our plans for tomorrow! [p: today] It does not change how we move forward with this campaign.

    What we have built, the strides that we have made, do not die today!! Our resolve is stronger than ever to bring the people of Florida the ONLY real option in this election!!

  70. Joe Wendt

    I could be wrong about Pete Blome, if so I apologize.

    BTW, inferring someone could be a government “plant” is essentially accusing someone of being so, in a very polite, passive aggressive, douche-baggy way. That being said, your logic is highly flawed.

    First, I didn’t start “relentlessly” attacking Wyllie until three events. First, they held a debate and broadcasted an edited vid over the net making JWS, the other announced and filed candidate, look racist. Second, they demanded and succeed in removing JWS, again the other announced and filed candidate, from LP.org’s list of candidates. The third was when they started attacking Steve LaBianca for announcing that he was considering a run for Governor. After those actions, which are attacks on people I respect and consider friends, I started being mean.

    Not to mention the fact I was admonished by a previous Chair of my former affiliate because certain high ranking morons didn’t like the fact I endorsed JWS for Governor on a closed facebook group for my former affiliate, and then verbally assaulted by one high ranking individual because I said the State EC should resign (for not filing State quarterly financial reports) on a closed facebook group.

    Second, I only voluntarily ran for a position on my county EC once (actually recruited), in 2012. After a very personally troubling year (my mother was in and out of the hospital), I had announced I did not want to be treasurer the next year. At the EC elections of 2013, Mr. Wyllie opened up his big, fat mouth and proclaimed I’m still treasurer because no one could find a candidate, regardless of the fact I wasn’t running (or wanted the damn job). Then after seeking a lesser position this year (that would better fit my schedule), I was “promoted” and appointed Treasurer (the previous one being elected Chair in a special election contrary to the affiliate’s bylaws) regardless of my schedule and needs that need to be attended to (never mind that I had to accommodate the needs and schedules everyone else on the EC). Then I was demoted because, to be frank, I advocated frugality because my affiliate has a tendency to go for months without incoming funds (although I did try to reverse the trend), and they wanted me to “focus” my attentions elsewhere. So, I was essentially used to meet goals and needs because they are lazy, then dumped when I thought for myself.

    Therefore, go F*** Y*******

    May the LPF rot.

  71. paulie

    BTW, inferring someone could be a government “plant” is essentially accusing someone of being so, in a very polite, passive aggressive, douche-baggy way.

    Anyone could be a government plant, including those who accuse others of being government plants, those who act in a disruptive way, those who are rank and file organization members who keep their heads down and are friendly to everyone as well as those who do hard work and/or take leadership positions and people having some combinations of these traits. Furthermore there are non-government plants who act exactly the same as each of these. So it’s a complete waste of time to say someone could be a government plant unless you have concrete evidence as opposed to just speculation.

    First, they held a debate and broadcasted an edited vid over the net making JWS, the other announced and filed candidate, look racist.

    Racist against whom? He’s American Indian. Anti-white racist, anti-black racist or what?

    Second, they demanded and succeed in removing JWS, again the other announced and filed candidate, from LP.org’s list of candidates.

    Because he does not go through their vetting process, which he would pass if he did, on principle. I understand both sides of that debate.

    The third was when they started attacking Steve LaBianca for announcing that he was considering a run for Governor. After those actions, which are attacks on people I respect and consider friends, I started being mean.

    Primaries can often be nasty and ugly, in any party. That doesn’t mean you should keep carrying a grudge into the general election. And if you do, it’s best to just ignore the offending campaign and concentrate on helping other campaigns you like better such as Wohlsifer’s or your own if you had run for Soil and Water again like you were going to, as opposed to waging counter-productive guerilla warfare that should have ended with the primaries.

    verbally assaulted by one high ranking individual because I said the State EC should resign (for not filing State quarterly financial reports) on a closed facebook group.

    Second, I only voluntarily ran for a position on my county EC once (actually recruited), in 2012. After a very personally troubling year (my mother was in and out of the hospital), I had announced I did not want to be treasurer the next year. At the EC elections of 2013, Mr. Wyllie opened up his big, fat mouth and proclaimed I’m still treasurer because no one could find a candidate, regardless of the fact I wasn’t running (or wanted the damn job). Then after seeking a lesser position this year (that would better fit my schedule), I was “promoted” and appointed Treasurer (the previous one being elected Chair in a special election contrary to the affiliate’s bylaws) regardless of my schedule and needs that need to be attended to (never mind that I had to accommodate the needs and schedules everyone else on the EC).

    Irony abounds. The state level treasurer (female I think, but I could be wrong) has also complained that (s)he does not want the job and doesn’t have time for it but noone else is willing to take it. Same is true of some other state EC positions IIRC. I don’t know how appropriate it was to chide you for saying they should resign because they did not file quarterly reports, but as for the failure itself, you should certainly be able to relate to being overwhelmed as a treasurer and no one being willing to relieve you of the responsibility. I would imagine it’s a harder task at the state level than the county, so you should be able to uderstand where they are coming from. Certainly you, being overwhelmed as a county treasurer, wouldn’t want to double down by being treasurer at the state level, and apparently no one else did either.

    Therefore, go F*** Y*******

    May the LPF rot.

    null

  72. Jill Pyeatt

    The nastyfest is spilling over from Facebook to IPR. I hope it goes away soon.

    I’ll tell you this much about Joe Wendt: he sure can hold a grudge. As a matter of fact, that’s about the only thing I can tell you about Joe Wendt, because that’s all he talks about.

    Is that really what you want, Joe?

  73. Thomas L. Knapp

    Well, the election is three weeks minus one day away away, so in three weeks we can expect the arguments to switch to revolving around “see, Wyllie really knocked it out of the park” or “see, Wyllie’s campaign took a shit and died at the polling places.”

    As a veteran of several election cycles in the LP, I personally don’t predicate my analysis on vote totals. I’ve seen well-run campaigns do piss-poorly and piss-poorly run campaigns do better than one would expect. In my opinion Wyllie has run a good campaign in general and a VERY good campaign by LP standards so far.

    Would I rather the LPF had nominated a hardcore radical? Yeah. But that part of things is done and over with until next time. As long as he doesn’t start babbling about humanitarian wars or Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve or some other kind of crazy shit between now and the election, I can’t see any reason not to support him as best I can.

  74. Andy

    “Joe Wendt October 15, 2014 at 3:59 pm
    I could be wrong about Pete Blome, if so I apologize.

    BTW, inferring someone could be a government “plant” is essentially accusing someone of being so, in a very polite, passive aggressive, douche-baggy way.”

    And you, Joe Wendt, have not been behaving in a douche-baggy way? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

  75. Joe Wendt

    Sorry, my comments where directed towards Andy. It is a hate filled rant. I promise better behavior

    I respect Paulie, Thomas Knapp, and Jill Pyeatt, and their opinions. Unfortunately, after dealing with the mindless sheep in the LPF, I understand why JWS and Steve LaBianca are not big fans of the LPF. I am gleefully awaiting for the demise of the LPF, just so I can dance on it’s grave. That group left a very bad taste in my mouth.

  76. paulie

    I respectfully suggest you focus on positive, productive efforts to make us more free, whatever those might be, rather than dancing on anyone’s grave, but to each their own.

  77. Andy

    Joe Wendt said: ” I am gleefully awaiting for the demise of the LPF, just so I can dance on it’s grave.”

    This sounds pretty hate filled to me.

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