Judge keeps Libertarian Wyllie out of debate

From the Tampa Bay Times:

A federal judge Tuesday rejected arguments by Libertarian gubernatorial candidate Adrian Wyllie that he should be allowed to take part in a debate Wednesday night with Republican Gov. Rick Scott and Democratic challenger Charlie Crist.

U.S. District Judge James Cohn, in a six-page ruling, refused to grant a temporary restraining order or a preliminary injunction that would have required debate organizers to allow Wyllie into the televised debate.

Cohn wrote that Wyllie and his campaign “have not shown a substantial likelihood of success on any of their claims, so they are not entitled to the requested temporary relief.”

36 thoughts on “Judge keeps Libertarian Wyllie out of debate

  1. paulie

    From the Wyllie Campaign:

    Adrian Wylie, Libertarian candidate for governor of Florida, is calling into question the relationship between Dean Ridings, the Florida Press Association and the Democrat Party of Florida and possibly Charlie Crist. This is while the Florida Press Association and Leadership Florida, two organizations that Mr. Ridings serves on the board for, were successful in federal court to exclude Mr. Wyllie from the largest televised gubernatorial debate in 2014.

    These claims stem from a subsidiary of the Florida Press Association, Intersect Media Solution’s conducting business with a well known Democratic consulting firm Greer, Margolis, Mitchell and Burn ( aka GMMB) and their interactions with Democrat candidate Charlie Crist.

    Intersect Media Solutions, who is owned by the Florida Press Association’s for-profit company, Florida Press Services, provides marketing research and media advertising purchases for marketing companies around the state and country. One of their clients, Greer, Margolis, Mitchell and Burns is a political consulting firm located on K Street in Washington DC and is known for running campaigns for major Democrat candidates including Barrack Obama and most recently Charlie Crist.

    GMMB’s partner, Brad Perseke said, “I call them for virtually all of our newspaper advertising. Working together with Intersect Media Solutions, our agency can focus on all aspects of a client’s campaign while with Intersect Media Solutions’ [sic] provides us with the necessary research and data needed for effective newspaper advertising,” when speaking of their relationship with Intersect Media Solutions.

    This election cycle alone GMMB has done extensive work with the Charlie Crist campaign and the Democrat Party of Florida. The company [Greer, Margolis, Mitchell and Burns] has been paid $6,455,903.22 this election cycle with $1,888,859.67 coming from Charlie Crist, $4,101,653.40 from the Democrat Party of Florida and $465,390.15 coming from SEIU of Florida. While it is unclear if GMMB used Intersect Media Solutions for either Charlie Crist or the Democrat Party of Florida in this year’s gubernatorial election, it is clear that Intersect Media Solutions does and has profited from the Democrat Party and it’s candidates.

    The Florida Press Association and Leadership Florida set debate criteria in August of this year, after having the knowledge that Adrian would be polling at least as high as 12% and, at the time, slightly hurting Charlie Crist. The board member that sits on both boards that makes that decision is Dean Ridings who is not only the president of the Florida Press Association and Intersect Media Solutions but also sits on the board of directors of Leadership Florida.

    “At this point, given the circumstantial evidence of an incestious, multi-million dollar relationship between Dean Ridings, GMMB, and Charlie Crist, I have to call into question whether this was the ultimate reason for my exclusion in the debate,” said Wyllie. “It is clear to me now that when Ridings set the debate criteria specifically to exclude me, it was not based on public interest — it was based on personal profit motive.”

    The campaign is concerned that this may call into question whether this organization can be a trusted source to the people of Florida when the president of the Florida Press Association and the association itself, through it’s subsidiaries, profits from candidates and campaigns. While it does not change the outcome of Wyllie’s inclusion into the debate, it is something that must be considered by the people of Florida.

    Danielle Alexandre
    Campaign Manager
    Wyllie for Governor

    This does not change our plans for tomorrow! [p: today] It does not change how we move forward with this campaign.

    What we have built, the strides that we have made, do not die today!! Our resolve is stronger than ever to bring the people of Florida the ONLY real option in this election!!

  2. Joe Wendt

    Yes, essentially playing the political version of 6 degrees of kevin bacon to insinuate a bizarre plot to of the Crist campaign to block a political ant. Very delusional.

  3. paulie

    More like zero degrees of separation in this case. Same people, different hats. What’s bizarre about corrupt crony politics and campaigns playing dirty? Seems very run of the mill to me. And what facts are incorrect here?

  4. Vincent Rivas-Flores Post author

    Thank you, Jill and Jed. I feel quite welcome. This is a nice place, so I intend to hang out and contribute for as long and as often as I can.

  5. paulie

    Jo Ann Vaccarino Sorry… i was protesting debate exclusion
    1 hr · Unlike · 1
    Paulie Cannoli How did the protest go Jo Ann Vaccarino ?
    1 hr · Like
    Jo Ann Vaccarino Great turnout. We filled 80% of the free speech zone. Adrian live streamed his answers from down the street and CBS had a reporter with Adrian for that whole time

  6. Antirevolutionary

    Should there be an Open Thread for Orlando and Joe to chant slogans for and against Adrian Wyllie at each other?
    Should there be an open thread for Orlando and Joe to chant slogans for and against Adrian Wyllie at each other?

    The Flordia governor’s debate tonight got some media attention because Rick Scott at first refused to come out on stage. There was a dispute over an electric fan. I wonder if Adrian could have had a funny response if he were on stage with Crist? Definitely a lost opportunity.

  7. Andy

    “Joe Wendt October 15, 2014 at 5:03 pm
    Yes, essentially playing the political version of 6 degrees of kevin bacon to insinuate a bizarre plot to of the Crist campaign to block a political ant. Very delusional.”

    Very jackass comment from Joe Wendt.

  8. Joe Wendt

    “These claims stem from a subsidiary of the Florida Press Association, Intersect Media Solutions conducting business with a well known Democratic consulting firm Greer, Margolis, Mitchell and Burn ( aka GMMB) and their interactions with Democrat candidate Charlie Crist.”

    So a subsidiary (which happens to be an advertising company, with a good reputation) is doing business with a consulting firm and has had dealing with Charlie Crist (both of which would use and would normally need the services of an advertising company). How the hell does that equal vast liberal conspiracy? I don’t even like Crist, and even I can see this accusation is baseless at best. Based on that logic, the fast food industry is part of a vast right-wing conspiracy to make America fat because Herman Cain has been connected to various fast food companies. Or even the better, the Libertarian Party is involved in a vast alien conspiracy because Libertarian spelled backwards is Nairatrebil, which is the name of the supreme galactic ruler’s home town (or some bs like that). Seriously, not everything is a vast conspiracy.

  9. Mike Kane

    I think Libertarians focus too much on the debates (which is largely out of their control) and doing more outreach (in their control).

    Many people who watch the debates do so for entertainment purposes only. It’s not as if Adrian Wyllie being in the debate would have suddenly changed the results on election day.

    Plenty of Libertarians have been in publicized debates in the past few years and still had low single digits on election day.

  10. paulie

    So a subsidiary (which happens to be an advertising company, with a good reputation) is doing business with a consulting firm and has had dealing with Charlie Crist (both of which would use and would normally need the services of an advertising company). How the hell does that equal vast liberal conspiracy? I don’t even like Crist, and even I can see this accusation is baseless at best. Based on that logic, the fast food industry is part of a vast right-wing conspiracy to make America fat because Herman Cain has been connected to various fast food companies. Or even the better, the Libertarian Party is involved in a vast alien conspiracy because Libertarian spelled backwards is Nairatrebil, which is the name of the supreme galactic ruler’s home town (or some bs like that). Seriously, not everything is a vast conspiracy.

    That doesn’t sound at all like the same thing I read.

  11. paulie

    I think Libertarians focus too much on the debates (which is largely out of their control) and doing more outreach (in their control).

    Many people who watch the debates do so for entertainment purposes only.

    Yes, but some watch it to decide who to vote for and it’s an opportunity especially for a less known candidate to break out. Being excluded is a signal to voters who are not firmly committed to not even consider this person.

    It’s not as if Adrian Wyllie being in the debate would have suddenly changed the results on election day.

    It may have. It’s not impossible it would have cause him to pick up momentum. From 13% to 33% in three weeks would be a tall order, but it has on rare occasion been done. Factoring in the two NPAs it could even be possible to win with slightly less – theoretically, just over 20%, but realistically it would have to be higher than that. More likely it would not be enough for a win but could still provide a nice boost.

    Plenty of Libertarians have been in publicized debates in the past few years and still had low single digits on election day.

    It’s not a panacea in and of itself but that does not mean it’s not important.

  12. Matt Cholko

    Debates for POTUS are a big deal. Debates for pretty much any other office are not, if you’re thinking in terms of votes on election day. Few people other than serious politicos watch them, and those people are almost always committed to a candidate long before.

    With that said, of course it would be better to be in the debates than not. Short of an incredibly embarrassing performance, I can’t see how it would hurt a non-duopoly candidate.

    More importantly, debates provide an opportunity for Ls to spread the L message, get the LP name mentioned a little more, and the like. Its difficult to quantify the value of stuff like this, but I am certain that is has *some* value.

    Further still, if one single people sees the debate, likes the L candidate or message, and becomes an activist and/or donor, that’s a nice success. This seems like something that could easily occur.

  13. Mike Kane

    Matt makes quite a few good points here.

    But where he misses is on the last sentence. Opportunity costs.

    If paying a lawyer to sue (which is pretty much non Libertarian to begin with), costs money, in addition to time, brings on a few activists, how worth it is it?

    Of course, it depends on the context of the debate. If it’s a nationally broadcast CNN debate, granted it’s more worthwhile than a civic forum with 25 attendees.

    I believe the time would be better spent on media ads, outreach, and party building.

  14. Mike Kane

    PS:

    As I’ve said before, if Adrian Wyllie were to actually win the election it would be Bob Barr x 1000. Since Mr. Wyllie spent money like water as state chair of FL and only appointed people who sucked up to him, he’s demonstrated that he lacks judgement at best, and at worst, lacks character.

    I’d be surprised if he could even keep government growth stagnant as Governor.

    My prediction is 1.6% on election day. While a 10% showing might be nice to some, I’d trade the other 8.4% for 840 new LP members.

  15. paulie

    If paying a lawyer to sue (which is pretty much non Libertarian to begin with),

    I disagree with the contention that it’s non-libertarian (or even “pretty much” non-libertarian).

    costs money, in addition to time, brings on a few activists, how worth it is it?

    It helps rally the troops and gets donations that would not come in for other purposes. Complaining about, and fighting against, unfair debate exclusion is a long time part of the game of politics. It’s not going to go away, at least not soon.

    I believe the time would be better spent on media ads, outreach, and party building.

    It’s like walking and chewing gum. For example, Wyllie’s campaign is using the debate exclusion as a hook to raise money for an ad buy. It’s working pretty well, with $6k coming in in the first day and a half (I haven’t checked my email yet to see how they did overnight), going for 30k.

  16. paulie

    My prediction is 1.6% on election day

    I guess we’ll see. I’m with Knapp in thinking that whatever the final results will be is not the most important thing about the campaign. I don’t have a good track record of guessing such things, but I’m going to just toss a number out of a hat and say 7%. Chances are that the two NPAs will cut into the anybody-but-Crist-or-Scott vote, although Wyllie will still get the bulk of it, and that Crist and Scott will get many people to hold their nose at the last minute, while others will just stay home. So maybe I’m being optimistic, but not wildly so. I’m wondering whether the purple PAC may get involved at the last minute like they did in the Sarvis race last year with another campaign in a tossup state between Ds and Rs where both of the leading candidates are heavily hated by most voters? Will there be any kind of last minute dirty trick against Wyllie, like what happened to Redlich or Sarvis? Lots of x factors here.

    I made a donation to Adrian Wyllie’s campaign today to help buy TV ads.

    Thank you!

  17. Andy

    “paulie October 17, 2014 at 10:14 am

    ‘My prediction is 1.6% on election day’

    I guess we’ll see. I’m with Knapp in thinking that whatever the final results will be is not the most important thing about the campaign. I don’t have a good track record of guessing such things, but I’m going to just toss a number out of a hat and say 7%”

    “They” could also rig the election results. Wyllie could get 10% of the vote and they could announce that he got 5% of the vote and we’d have know way of knowing that this way a lie.

    This is yet another reason why libertarians need to pursue strategies beyond electoral politics. I’m not saying to abandon electoral politics, because it is still a good way to reach a lot of people, and every once in a while we win an election (at the local level), but solely relying on electoral politics when the deck is so obviously stacked against us is foolish.

  18. Bondurant

    Debates are outreach. That is exactly why Democrats and Republicans work together to ban other candidates from their debates.

  19. Mike Kane

    No I give credit where credit is due. I do not criticize for the sake of being negative. Just where I have pointed out where Wyllie can do better, I’m complimenting where do things right.

    If you watch the video it’s a real Libertarian Solution.

  20. paulie

    Some good responses to this bottom of the barrel dirt slinging at https://www.facebook.com/groups/lpfsolutions/

    Here is Danielle Alexandre’s, unedited:

    Danielle Alexandre
    4 hrs · New Port Richey, FL · Edited

    I think everyone has had about enough now. I know, I certainly have.

    First of all thank you all for the kind words. I truly appreciate them. You have no idea how much it has meant to me.

    To address the actual issue, I am giving everyone the exact response that was sent BY me to the press in 2012 when this story was first in the newspaper:

    “It is unfortunate that my ex-husband has resorted to misinformation and fabrication of the facts, to personally and financially gain from the dissolution of our marriage.

    I personally will not sensationalize a story nor communicate with this violent and unstable individual (Edward Alexandre) through the newspapers, for the benefit to your sales nor the entertainment of the public, at the detrament of the children involved (three of them being my own).

    At the time of the legal proceedings surrounding my divorce, I was very broken as a person. It will take years to permantly heal from the damage done. Fortunately, I have moved on to find a place of love and support which will allow that healing process to begin.”

    That was all that needed to be said then and all that is needed to be said now.

    As far as this being put into the context of the Wyllie campaign, I can say that my ability as campaign manager has never been indoubt with our team. We have put in a strategic plan and I have executed the management of that plan exceptionally which is evident in the rising poll numbers for Adrian Wyllie. Each day we have broken through nearly every barrier 3rd party candidates have encountered in the past and continue to make history in the state of Florida.

    I am asking everyone to let this be the end of this discussion. Not because it has to do with me or my personal life but because we do not have time for this sort of distraction.

    We have 13 days left in this election. It is time for everyone to focus on this without the hinderment of an issue that happened years ago and has no bearing on the present situation.

    We have come so far in the last 2 years. We have broken down walls, we have reached so many people and we are growing every day. Our message is resonating with the people like never before. This is OUR time! Don’t fall into their trap. Rise above it. We are better than this petty bickering.

    Let’s regroup and refocus today!! And trust me when I tell you that the “block” feature of facebook can be your best friend!!

    Let those who are without sin cast the first stone.

  21. Joe Wendt

    It’s not really bottom of the barrel, it is a valid concern. If Rick Scott or that other one had picked a campaign manager with that kind of baggage, not to mention appoint it as Treasurer of a State Party, it would be viewed as scandalous and would question the reasoning behind it. It is cronyism, are there shenanigans going on, etc. If Wyllie wants to be treated as a major candidate (as laughable and idiotic that idea maybe), then he should face the same scrutiny.

  22. paulie

    It’s not really bottom of the barrel

    Yes it absolutely is. She is a campaign manager, not the candidate, and her private personal life and dealings with consenting adults and the breakup of her previous marriage have nothing to do with Wyllie’s qualifications to be Governor or to present the libertarian message to voters. I would say the same thing for people attacking Democrats and Republicans, much less their staffers, for their affairs, and have said so many times.

    Keep personal mudslinging out of politics, it is a distraction from the actual issues.

  23. Andy

    It sounds to me like Joe Wendt is grasping at straws to find bad things to say about Adrian Wyllie.

  24. paulie

    Pretty sad that anyone would resort to this especially given the two giant turds who are leading the polls in this race.

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