Adrian Wyllie, 2014 Libertarian candidate for Governor of Florida, continues to attract media coverage for his protest of the REAL ID Act.
Wyllie has refused to renew his Florida driver’s license, and when charged for driving without a license has repeatedly tried to raise arguments in court alleging the unconstitutionality of Florida’s implementation of the REAL ID Act.
In particular Wyllie claims the provisions for biometric features in the ID, and the sharing of DL information among government agencies, violate the 4th Amendment and its Florida counterpart. No judge has accepted these arguments, but the judge in the latest case (Wyllie’s third prosecution) did reject the prosecution’s attempt to impose six months of probation, instead lowering the sentence to a $150 fine while praising Wyllie’s sincerity.
More details in this article from WWSB ABC 7.
Wyllie received 222,908 votes for Governor (3.7%) last year, more total votes than any other Libertarian candidate for Governor or US Senator in 2014.
Joe Wendt wants to do a lot more than drum him out of the party, he wants him sent to prison for five years (maybe longer if the law allowed it), and would have preferred to have had him executed if he didn’t oppose the death penalty.
“Sharing of DL information among government agencies”? This guy sounds like a dangerous conspiracy theorist. The bootlicker wing of the LP should drum him out of the party.
Is there a way to get a non-REAL ID drivers license there?
I didn’t say that pleading no contest equates to him accepting the law, the arguments he presented in court do. They’re all REAL ID focused, and mentions nothing of the validity of the laws that require actually having a drivers license.
Pleading no contest means as was pointed out above that since the court is not allowing a defense based on the merits of the law that you are not contesting the facts of the case. It’s different from a guilty plea for a reason.
That’s not what pleading no contest means.
I’m also wonder how he still has insurance. Last time I checked, you needed a valid license to have auto insurance.
Paulie,
I’m not saying it should be a crime, but Wyllie has accepted that it is a crime by recognizing that driving is a state-granted privilege; remember, he’s only challenging REAL ID requirements to get a license, not the law that requires a license to drive. So, since Wyllie was and will be a multi-time offender, it’s only appropriate to punish him to the extent of the law that he recognizes.
Oops, you beat me to it.
Given that it takes tens of thousands of dollars a year to house a prisoner, is that really reasonable? And do you have any idea how many people drive without a license?
Why should it even be a crime at all? Who exactly is the victim?
I try not to hate anyone nearly that much. More seriously, then, just how long do you think taxpayers should pay to lock people up for not taking the REAL ID and/or driving without a license?
how long should he rot… I think the max is 5 years for driving without a license
partially as a joke and as a way to demonstrate the level of dislike of him. besides, who hasn’t had a similar thought or fantasy about someone they dislike being killed (no one’s perfect)
As for rotting in jail, just how long to do you want taxpayers to pay for locking people for not getting a REAL ID license? Life? Years?
Then why did you say you want to see Wyllie shot execution style?
I am against and cannot support abortion, the death penalty, and euthanasia. (if you chose to do that, that’s on you, and I want no part of it)
Thanks for the explanation Alex and for all your fine efforts for the Libertarian Party in Florida.
“I adhere to the Consistent Life Ethic”
Please explain what that is.
Look on the bright side; at least the LPF infighters are not accusing each other (at least so far) of being married to (let’s say) a woman who works for a company that has government contracts and whose prior husband was a government employee. The neo-nazi infighting on the NSM thread is because one of the neo-nazi micro-fuehrers is accusing the other one of allegedly being married to an Arab woman whose previous husband is black.
Paulie,
Anyone who actually knows me knows I adhere to the Consistent Life Ethic
Andy,
At the time I supported Gingrich, I was a registered Republican (had been for the most part since 2003). I supported Gingrich because he was more tolerable than Romney and had a shot at the nomination (also, Herman Cain, who was my preferred choice, withdrew and endorsed him). My political views have changed radically since then (thanks to the likes of Steve and JWS).
Too funny Joe. If you said that you said that under your breath to make sure that I would not hear that.
Joe Wendt
Driving without a license should be a death penalty offense?
I guess that would go with supporting Gingrich, since Gingrich actually in full seriousness proposed the death penalty for drug offenses, including marijuana.
There is a huge difference between supporting Ron Paul and supporting Newt Gingrich. If Joe Wendt does not understand this then it is his commitment to libertarian principles that ought to be questioned.
“1. In 2012 Joe was running for the Hillsborough Soil and Water Board. At that time he was actively supporting Newt Gingrich for president. I called him and told him that supporting Newt on his campaign site was a bad idea and told him that he should take it down.”
I actually did take that post down. And yet you won’t stop harping on it, even after 3 years. That is called being a douchebag, Alex. By the way, you left the LP that year to support Ron Paul, you are a hypocrite.
“2. In one of the elections in the Hillsborough County Libertarian Party Adrian said that Joe would make good treasurer and asked him to take the position. I believe that Joe felt pressured to take that leadership role again and blames Adrian for it.”
There are sooo many fallacies in that statement. I was Treasurer the previous year (2012). I told EC I did not want to serve again because my mother was in and out of the hospital that year (for about 7 out of 12 months) and I wanted to spend more time with my family. Wyllie actually said, “I guess you’re still Treasurer.” And rather than actually look for a candidate, everyone went with that. Call me crazy, normal people would be pissed in the same
Those two thing would have been forgivable offenses, unfortunately we come to the straw that broke the camel’s back:
“3. Joe was accusing the LPF treasurer of wrongdoing and criminal activity. I personally went to the Hillsborough meeting to explain to him why that was not the case and to tell him that if he thought that he could do a better job that Danielle would resign immediately and i would suggest to the state chair that he should be appointed the position. He refused and when confronted would not even look me in the eye. He can sure talk trash online but when face to face he does not have the courage of his convictions.”
The wrongdoings I was accusing her of are public record: 1) failure to file quarterly reports with the state as the GOP, Democrats, Greens, Constitution, Independent, & Indepdence Party do on a fairly regular basis. 2) Almost getting the Party de-registered because she failed to file the annual audit on time. Call me crazy, those are reckless actions. Then, in a fashion befitting Boss Tweed or Pendergast, he offered what amounted to a corrupt deal. The fact that the Vice Chair has that much power to actually change the composition of the State EC on a whimp is both perplexing as it is scary. Now, at that time, unbeknownst to him, my mother and son were having surgery the very next day. So call me crazy, I had more important things on my mind than dealing with a corrupt politician. BTW, he omitted the fact I told him to f**k off at the end of that conversation.
That’s why I am against them that vehemently. They are no better than the corrupt idiots in the GOP (I’ve met a few of them), and Snitker, Wyllie, and Danielle are no better than them. They have brought Big-Party-Corruption to the LP. They are not good people.
And since October the registration to Libertarian in Florida is up over 12%.
Nice try Mike.
As far as full affiliation goes we are not there but further along and have had an increase in affiliates.
I will be continuing to help when I am done with my term as Vice Chair as well as continuing to increase registered Libertarians in Florida.
As far as the event in the keys. Before that event you were openly and publicly attacking Adrian. It was hypocritical that you even attended.
And as it relates to the number of Wyllie supporters in your affiliate. Considering the attitude you have toward them I am suprised you have one.
Wyllie’s campaign squandered the opportunity to grow the LP. At an event down here, I was berated by Alex Snitker for showing up and handing out brochures from LPstuff.com
Only ONE person from the Wyllie event has become active with our local affiliate. Wyllie ignored my request to encourage people at the event down here to join the LP and get active.
Despite all this, we still endorsed Mr. Wyllie as opposed to “No one”.
Funny how Joe wasn’t at the 2012 convention, so I’m not sure how he and I were in the same contingency.
Speaking of that convention, what was your stated goal Alex? “Full Affiliation”. How’s that goal coming along????????
The good news is that people like Joe represent a very small minority in the Libertarian Party of Florida. At the last convention his contingent represented 2 out of the 30 tables at the business meeting.
He can sure post here talking trash but that’s about it.
When I ran for the position of Vice Chair in 2012 I was against one person in his contingent and won that election with 80% of the vote.
I will not be running for reelection so people like Joe can try again to take a leadership role but that would actually require work.
It seems to me that they are much more interested in complaining than to do anything productive to advance the Libertarian Party of Florida or liberty in general.
Joe’s grudge is because of a couple of things.
1. In 2012 Joe was running for the Hillsborough Soil and Water Board. At that time he was actively supporting Newt Gingrich for president. I called him and told him that supporting Newt on his campaign site was a bad idea and told him that he should take it down.
2. In one of the elections in the Hillsborough County Libertarian Party Adrian said that Joe would make good treasurer and asked him to take the position. I believe that Joe felt pressured to take that leadership role again and blames Adrian for it.
3. Joe was accusing the LPF treasurer of wrongdoing and criminal activity. I personally went to the Hillsborough meeting to explain to him why that was not the case and to tell him that if he thought that he could do a better job that Danielle would resign immediately and i would suggest to the state chair that he should be appointed the position. He refused and when confronted would not even look me in the eye. He can sure talk trash online but when face to face he does not have the courage of his convictions.
Joe has been accusing me and Adrian of wrongdoing for years but has produced nothing as for as any concrete evidence to support his allegations. He has accused us of stealing money when you can see clearly in the campaign reports that Adrian and I are consistent donors to the state party. He accuses us of not being Libertarian when he has been the one who has been promoting the campaigns of Republicans who have been against Libertarians in races. (Rick Scott and Newt Gingrich are two examples)
Joe Wendt has a grudge and is not interested in growing the Libertarian Party of Florida. Joe Wendt is much more interested in attacking Adrian and me but does not have the courage to actually address any of these concerns to face to face.
Joe does not do anything but attack and cause division. IMO he does this because he actually wants to keep the party small and to drive away anyone who he feels will want to actively grow the party.
At the last convention Joe and Steve actually crashed a party in the hotel room of some Libertarians, drank much of their liquor and talked trash about those on the room to Steve before leaving when asked to put in a little money in on what they were drinking.
He has attacked my family with lies. He is a sorry excuse for a human being and the worst type of coward. He is no Libertarian in what he advocates, the candidates he supports or how he chooses to live.
Disagreeing with Adrian Wyllie’s court room strategies here is a very weak case for saying that he is a bad guy.
I’m inclined to agree that the is not pursuing the wisest or most effective strategy, and I’m honestly not sure that he has much of a legal argument either when it comes to the particular claims he’s making.
One point however: he hasn’t been pleading “guilty.” He’s been pleading “no contest” after the judge rejects his constitutional argument. That’s not the same thing. He’s not agreeing to his guilt, he’s agreeing that once his constitutional claims are rejected he has no further argument to make.
And while I’m not close enough to LP-FL to judge the odd divisiveness Wyllie seems to provoke, it’s also true that he was the only Libertarian to candidate to get 200k+ votes running for Gov or US Sen in 2014. He made a serious fight of debate inclusion when he was polling into the double digits. He definitely had one of the highest-profile LP campaigns. So he’s doing something right, even if his REAL ID fight seems a little sovereign-citizen-y to me.
I like Adrian Wylie because of his work as Campaign Manager for Alex Snitker and for his own campaign for Governor in Florida. We need more people who actually do things to advance liberty to the general public. I don’t understand Joe’s grudge against Adrian.
What bad personal experience did you have with him?
If you’ve never met or interacted with Wyllie, than stop judging people who have and dislike him.
So what if Wyllie is challenging REAL ID in traffic court. I wish more people would stand up to things like this in traffic court instead of allowing government to trample over them.
You still have failed to persuade me that your hatred of Wyllie has any rational reason behind it. I have never met or interacted with Adrian Wyllie, so I have no idea what he is like in person, but I like what I have seen of him online.
@ Andy,
Challenging the REAL ID Act is a good thing… in the state legislature, in the state supreme court, in a state circuit court, or statewide ballot initiative; you know, places where you could actually change the law. He’s fighting it in a TRAFFIC COURT!!! This is his THIRD attempt to challenge the law in TRAFFIC COURT, and he FAILED!!!! And rather than fight it in a trial, or even attempting to appeal the judge’s ruling, he pleads GUILTY!!! This is a publicity stunt that does nothing to actually challenge the law.
And yet these same idiots who blindly praise Wyllie for pleading GUILTY in traffic court as some bizarro libertarian hero, vilified John Wayne Smith (who was also my friend and a friend to others), who actually fought and helped eliminate government agencies in Florida. Wyllie and his crew are scum who don’t deserve attention, they are midgets compared to JWS, Karl Hess, and other REAL Libertarians.
Challenging the REAL ID Act is a good thing. Your beef with Wyllie does not appear to make any sense.
I would agree with you that driving without a license is a stupid & illegitimate crime, however Wyllie isn’t challenging the validity of the law that requires a drivers license. Rather, he’s challenging REAL ID in a traffic court. He’s not filing a lawsuit to challenge the law, and not getting the issue on the ballot. He thinks wasting tax-payer dollars, time, and resources that could be better spent on real traffic-related crimes (drunk & reckless driving comes to mind) on him because he SURRENDERED his license is appropriate. And if he actually believed in the validity of his own argument, why does he plead guilty every single time to get a light sentence? Think about it. A man with true conviction of the cause would fight it, go to trial, appeal if necessary, and risk jail time. He’s not doing it to promote liberty, he’s promoting himself for his own ambitions and his own interests.
Joe sure does not as sound like much of a libertarian. Even if you don’t like Wyllie, driving without a license is not a legitimate crime.
I still do not get why you hate Wyllie. What did he do to you?
So am I. Joe. Several of us here have favorite issues or peeves, and choose to share them over and over. I’m working on a new vaccine article, since I learned so much on my prior two articles.
@ Jill
LOL, I am a creature of habit
I knew you’d have a negative comment, Joe. Some things are pretty consistent here on IPR.
The Judge should’ve thrown the book at him. This is the third time he’s been arrested on the charge, and the third time he’s plead guilty on the same charge; probation would have been more than appropriate for a repeat offender. Granted, I don’t like the SOB, so clearly I want to see him rot in jail or shot execution style (yes, I am mean). I’m just surprised his auto insurance provider hasn’t revoked his insurance because he doesn’t have a valid driver’s license.
Well, good for Adrian! I’m glad he had a small fine, and no probation.