A Barton Hinkle:”The GOP’s Third Party Option”

So revolting do many Republicans find the prospect of having Donald Trump as their nominee that three in 10 say they would not vote for him in November, some are now speaking openly about leaving the GOP for a third party. An exodus like that could wreck the GOP. But it might be wrecked already. And at least those leaving could look themselves in the mirror—rather than looking like, say, a horrified Chris Christie, who appeared behind Trump on Super Tuesday resembling Oedipus at the moment he realized what he had done.

But what sort of party would appeal to the GOP’s anti-Trump forces? The answer seems obvious: a party that embodies the opposite of Trump.

On the issues, that would mean:

  • A party that does not merely welcome immigration, but celebrates it.
  • A party that treats individuals as individuals, not as indistinguishable sub-units of larger racial, ethnic, or other cohorts (Jews, Muslims, “The Mexicans,” etc.).
  • A party that is therefore not “fine” with either bigotry or affirmative action, as Trump is.
  • A party that, unlike Trump, consistently supports the First Amendment.
  • And the Second.
  • A party that would never endorse a record-shattering $5.7 trillion-with-a-T tax hike – which Trump not only endorsed, but proposed.
  • A party that, unlike Trump, doesn’t think it’s a good idea to go around killing the family members of suspected terrorists. Or torturing people, either.
  • A party that believes in free trade, not 45 percent tariffs on countries that supply goods American consumers want.
  • A party that steadfastly opposes forcing people to buy things they don’t want, such as health insurance.
  • A party that finds eminent-domain abhorrent, not a “wonderful” club to bash little old ladies with.
  • A party that, unlike Trump, supports equal rights for the LGBT community.
  • A party that, unlike Trump, opposed government bailouts for the auto companies.
  • And Wall Street.

Full column by A Barton Hinkle @ Reason http://reason.com/archives/2016/03/09/the-gops-third-party-optionhttp://reason.com/archives/2016/03/09/the-gops-third-party-option

52 thoughts on “A Barton Hinkle:”The GOP’s Third Party Option”

  1. George Phillies

    Does not appear to understand Republicans very well.

    Libertarians might well recruit the centrist Kasich republicans, the people to tump’s lef.t Sort of.

    However the Cruz-Rubio people – ban abortion period, the war on drugs is great-gays are evil – those Republicans need a different party.

  2. Andy

    Ted Cruz claims that if a state legalizes marijuana, that the federal government should not interfere with that decision, as per the 10th amendment, but he does not personally advocate for legalization.

  3. Shivany Lane

    No single party like that exists.

    The Democrats come the closest because they are open to negotiation and do not take their marching orders from Murdoch or Ailes or the Koch Brothers.

    The Libertarian Party does have some things in common with the Republicans.

    BTW, The Democrats are not “commin’ to take yer guns”. They believe in the 2nd amendment. They just would like it to be maybe a little harder for some people to actually get their hands on one. Like the Mentally Ill. Statistically, if you are having mental issues and you decide to kill yourself, if there is a gun in the house…you will be successful. If not, the likelihood of you coming to your senses and calling 911 or someone finding you passed out but still alive is pretty high.

    Here is another statistic for you. Many people who own guns end up shooting themselves before ever using it to defend their home and family. You have to take a test to drive a car. And dumb ass can buy a gun.

    The Democrats are all over the map on many of these issues. They , unlike the Republicans, understand that civil political discourse and debate can bring the issue to a common ground and work out from there. Democrats are not the Obstructionists in Congress, the Republicans are.

    Mitch McConnell said that his number one priority as soon as Obama was elected was to make him a one term President. He failed at that and in the process our country got deeper into debt and they shut the god damned government down over some hissy fit. I say, build a playground for the Republicans so they can Bully each other and get Third, Fourth Fifth…hell Fifteenth parties in the Congress who are adults and can actually get something done.

  4. Shivany Lane

    @Andy, :claiming during an election year when running for President is not worth even one sitoshi (its a form of Bitcoin, look it up).

    Trump says he will abolish the IRS. He can’t do that. Not as President. The President has very little power and Trump is a schoolyard Bully, sociopath who loves the attention. I bet he has never even read the constitution, because if he did, he would know that most of his hate filled promises can only be done by Congress.

    Oh and can someone send the guy a copy of the Geneva Convention and International Laws. While you are at it, send him a book or two about the Nuremberg Trials. He has stood at a podium on National Television and advocaetd that we commit war crimes. Why? because he wants to. I know we already have committed a few, but we didn’t pre-announce it and we didn’t target innocent families.

  5. NewFederalist

    Wow! Why are you not a Democrat, Shivany? It sounds like you admire them. I am NOT trying to be snarky here just curious.

  6. Thomas L. Knapp

    “BTW, The Democrats are not ‘commin’ to take yer guns’. They believe in the 2nd amendment. They just would like to do a bunch of stuff that that amendment says they can’t do and that increases rather than reduces gun violence wherever it’s tried. Or, rather, that’s what they SAY they would like to do, but really what they like to do is dance on the graves of dead kids hoping that it will get them votes.”

    There, fixed that for ya.

  7. Shivany Lane

    I have always been an Independent until last year. That’s when I became a Libertarian.

    I don’t admire them. Most of them are crap. I do admire some of them who are willing to work with all of “We The People” like Jerry Brown. He isn’t perfect but who is. Ahnold left this state a mess, at least Brown has cleaned it up.

    There have been a few Republicans I have admired through the years. I don’t believe in a two party system. I believe our founding fathers intended us to debate the issues and arrive at a solution democratically. Out of the 2 parties, The Democrats do a better job of it. They balance budgets, most of the time. The Republican party are crap too.

    I just get sick of the Republicans using hot button issues to keep the Democrats down. And in doing so it keeps anyone wanting to have a third party down.

    Oh and apparently Gary Johnson called Trump a Pussy again. If any of you know him personally, can you tell him that it is an offensive word to many woman and it is something a 12 year old would say. This is who you want to be your nominee? A 12 year old whose only taunt is, Trump is a Pussy. And he never says it to his face. I don’t support or elect children to political office.

  8. Shivany Lane

    So is there a litmus test to being a Libertarian?

    Or are you like the Republicans where you shun people who do not goose step in line with you?

    Just sayin’

  9. Shivany Lane

    Well Thomas, you must know some really shitty and horrid democrats. The ones I know would not do that.

    But then I live in California where most democrats don’t have to play games for votes.

    When has any politician, other than a Bigoted asshole ever danced on a kids grave for votes?

  10. Election Addict

    I’m a registered D, for what it’s worth, and kids playing with guns, along with domestic terrorism seem to be what the media harps on to convince people of the intrinsic evil of guns. And maybe they’re right, but then knives and so on are just as evil.

    But the case against the mentally ill obtaining any permit is very rational and fair.

  11. Andy

    “Shivany Lane
    March 10, 2016 at 00:18

    Well Thomas, you must know some really shitty and horrid democrats. The ones I know would not do that.”

    There are a range of views in all political parties and movements. Maybe all Democrats do not want to confiscate guns from civilians, but some of them do, particularly some of the ones at the top.

  12. Andy

    “Election Addict
    March 10, 2016 at 00:56

    I’m a registered D, for what it’s worth, and kids playing with guns, along with domestic terrorism seem to be what the media harps on to convince people of the intrinsic evil of guns. And maybe they’re right, but then knives and so on are just as evil.”

    Guns and knives are inanimate objects. People who use them to initiate force are the ones who are evil.

  13. Election Addict

    Andy: “Guns and knives are inanimate objects. People who use them to initiate force are the ones who are evil.”

    I agree, and hope I conveyed what you say with that comparison. And it reinforces the point that irresponsible people should not carry them.

  14. Andy

    “Election Addict
    March 10, 2016 at 01:25

    Andy: ‘Guns and knives are inanimate objects. People who use them to initiate force are the ones who are evil.’

    I agree, and hope I conveyed what you say with that comparison. And it reinforces the point that irresponsible people should not carry them.”

    So you mean that police and other government officials should not carry guns or knives?

  15. Andy

    Count Dianne Feinstein among those in the Democratic Party who do want to confiscate all guns from American civilians.

    Dianne Feinstein “Mr & Mrs America turn them all in”

  16. Andy

    Democrat Eric Holder wants to brainwash Americans into not supporting the right to keep and bear arms.

  17. steve m

    Jerry Brown was the governor of California that signed into law the asset seizure law used by police departments to rob lower income people of their property for the benefit of the police.

    Jerry Brown has taken mucho denero from the California Prison Guard Unions and has been apposed and fought against to legalization of pot to this day.

    Jerry Brown sponsored the law that retroactively raised the California Income tax rate from 10.3% to 13.3%

    I fail to see where I would work with Brown.

  18. steve m

    “When has any politician, other than a Bigoted asshole ever danced on a kids grave for votes?”

    Jerry Brown has locked people up and ruined lives for cash donations from the California Prison Guard Union.

  19. Stewart Flood

    They are dancing on the graves of the murder victims here in Charleston. They are using it as much as they can. The murderer was known to have problems, unlike what Clinton and Sanders have been saying in debates this past week. His parents, knowing he was mentally ill, gave him money for a gun. It was a birthday present.

    These are documented facts. I know people who knew him. They have said he was sick and creepy.

  20. Andy

    “Stewart Flood
    March 10, 2016 at 02:49

    They are dancing on the graves of the murder victims here in Charleston. They are using it as much as they can. The murderer was known to have problems, unlike what Clinton and Sanders have been saying in debates this past week. His parents, knowing he was mentally ill, gave him money for a gun. It was a birthday present.

    These are documented facts. I know people who knew him. They have said he was sick and creepy.”

    All of the evidence points to the Charleston church shooting having been another government staged false flag hoax, just like the Sandy Hook shooting, the San Bernardino shooting, the Isle Vista shooting, the Aurora Batman shooting, the Waco biker shooting, the Oregon Umpqua Community College shooting, the Las Vegas Joker shooting, the Virginia WDBJ shooting, etc…

    The government is staging these shootings and hyping them up in the media to rally support for their gun control and mental health agenda.

    Don’t believe it? Take some time and examine the evidence for yourself.

  21. Streart Flood

    Ok, this is just crap. It is insulting. Yes, there are false flag incidents. Yes, there are coverups. But occasionally there are real murders. This was one.

    That video is bs. Andy, do you live here? Have you ever been to that church? Driven by it hundreds of times? Known anyone that was killed? I live here, I know where that church is. I knew (not well) one of the victims. Why would you promote this lie? This video is crap.

    Their evidence is shadows? Claims of fake funerals? I know the barber who had to go to the funeral home. Stop spreading lies.

    Are the politicians taking advantage of this? Yes. Did they dump money on them? Yes. But that does not mean it was faked.

    You have to live here to understand WHY they stayed calm. WHY there were no riots after this murder or the others last year. WHY they reacted as they did. The guy making this video does not understand Charleston.

    Are you going to try to tell me that they faked a cop shooting Walter Scott too? This is sickening.

  22. George Phillies

    “Gary Johnson called Trump (names) again. ”

    Shivany, you are absolutely right on this. It is possible that Johnson remembers the usage that existed when I was a little boy, but over the decades words change their meanings. The meaning now is objectionable.

    ” But occasionally there are real murders. This was one.” Stewart, you are completely right on this. The amount of absurd conspiracy nonsense passing by here from a single source is amazing. I am amused to note that we have a Presidential candidate who is critical of the non-initiation statement in pledge, at least as sometimes interpreted, but when we have a walking example of someone trampling all over that pledge interpretation by advancing this sort of anti-libertarian fraudulent conspiracy nonsense. the people complaining about Austin Petersen are remarkably silent.

  23. NewFederalist

    Thank you, Shivany, for responding to my original query. I can’t say I agree with you but I can understand why you might feel the way you do. Personally, I despise both dominant parties separately but equally!

  24. Stewart Flood

    While this video is sick and demented, I think it makes a good example of where the pledge is misinterpreted. While this is fraud, with the intent of political gain (our side), the was no force involved. I was not forced to watch it. While I believe Andy is very sadly misinformed about events in the city I live in, i would not say that the pledge was violated.

    If you believe in the ficticious NAP, then yes he violated it. But the real Statement of Principles and the pledge were not violated. Nothing was taken by posting this. I lost no right or portion of self-ownership. The only person who may have lost was Andy. His reputation fell in my opinion. Whether that loss has value to him is debatable, but if he wants to have other’s respect then he lost some measurable value, at least for the short term.

  25. Shivany Lane

    Ooooooh Conspiracy theories. And some third parties wonder why people don’t join them in droves.

    If “we the people” Knew what core principles the Libertarian Party stands on, they would join them in a heartbeat. Unfortunately it is the nut cases on the fringes that get the air time.

    The Republican party built Trump, now they don’t know how to control him.
    The Democrats are not much better with Hillary changing her positions every other day.
    Bernie was supposed to just be the person to make sure she didn’t get a free ride and now look, he has turned into a movement. (BTW, he is not really a democrat, don’t tell anyone). Why do people vote for him? because he is new and fresh and people are sick and tired of the establishment politicians.

    Now is the time for Libertarians to open their doors and invite people in. Even if they don’t pass your litmus test. You can admire people of the different parties without admiring the entire party. I’ve never liked Dianne Feinstein, especially those silly bows she was so fond of. Barbara Boxer was a force to be reckoned with in her early days. Elizabeth Warren is a breath of Fresh Air.

  26. steve m

    I have spent the better part of working on a new set of Electronics. With no pay. My opportunity is after I have them working, I may sell enough to make some serious money. Enough money that Elizabeth Warren believes the majority of it should be confiscated from me. So I take all the risk and Elizabeth demands most of the reward. To avoid this confiscation of wealth I may have to set up a business in Singapore and have the boards manufactured and sold from there to the customers who would be using them in the far east. This means that US companies that would have built the boards lose the business and potentially Americans lose good paying jobs.

    I wouldn’t call Elizabeth Warren a breath of fresh air more like a foul fart.

  27. Shivany Lane

    Why don’t you just post your litmus test that I must pass in order to be treated with some kind of dignity and respect on this forum?

    Elizabeth Warren doesn’t want to take your money. Is she going to show up at your house and say hand it over steve? She is working within a broken system. The system must be fixed first and at least she is looking after the interests of the everyday person rather than the Big Banks and Corporations. She didn’t earn her degree and respect in her field by being a “foul fart”. Where is your degree from pray tell?

    Maybe you live in the land of plenty where there isn’t paycheck loan shark business on every corner. I watch hard working men and women try to get ahead but because of predatory lending practices, they never can catch a break. And this has nothing to do with your invention or taxes. This has to do with how consumer loans have NOT been regulated in this country.

    Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. I didn’t know that this forum was only for certain people and certain conversations. If i wanted that kind of dictatorship I would go back to Daily Kos where I am not allowed to talk about third parties.

    I am tired of being bullied.

  28. Lester Fulcrum

    When you say incredibly stupid shit like “Elizabeth Warren is a breath of Fresh Air.” It should be called out for the bullshit it is.

  29. Shivany Lane

    So what you are saying is, you support predatory lending practices and think that the poor should continue to get poorer. You probably own a chain of those cash loan places and hate that they now will not allow you to charge 300% interest.

    My opinions are not valued and I am not respected.

  30. NewFederalist

    “My opinions are not valued and I am not respected.” – Shivany Lane

    I think that is unfair. I asked you a question and you answered my query. I did not “disrespect” you. It is very easy to forget those who engage in honest discourse. It is important to reinforce such discourse if that is the kind of discussions you wish to have.

  31. Andy

    Nobody is forced to go to a Pay Day Loan place. Don’t like their interest rates, don’t go there.

  32. steve m


    Elizabeth Warren is going to send armed federal agents to my house, bank, business and take from me. That is how taxation works. Armed federal thugs operating under the written laws. Elizabeth Warren wants to increase my taxes which means taking more of my hard work to spend as she and congress thinks is proper.

    My point being that I will do what I can to keep the wealth I create. If the citizens of the US decide they would rather have higher taxes then jobs. Who am I to argue. I just point out they are likely to get neither.

    If I though the democrats were working on behalf of the people rather then just trying to gain and keep power to enrich themselves and their friends I would be a Democrat.

    I don’t believe this is the case. Not for Jerry Brown. Not for Bernie Sanders. Not for Obama.

  33. Thomas L. Knapp


    You write:

    “The system must be fixed first and at least [Elizabeth Warren] is looking after the interests of the everyday person rather than the Big Banks and Corporations.”

    Sorry to burst your bubble but Warren is a HUGE proponent of corporate welfare when the corporations benefiting are her campaign contributors. Medical device makers were specifically exempted from the bill she introduced to fund medical research with extra fines on health care companies that get sued by the federal government for violating its regulations. She also supported keeping the Export-Import Bank, which is entirely an instrument for transferring money from your pocket to the bank accounts of e.g. Boeing, going instead of shutting it down.

    Sorry I missed your question about grave-dancing Democrats (and, occasionally, Republicans). It’s pretty simple: Watch for a shooting. Then watch for the grave-dancers to pop up on TV doing the funky chicken and screeching at the top of their lungs that the way to stop shootings is to pass more victim disarmament legislation. Newtown? Charleston? They’d roll in the goddamn blood if they could get to it before it dried.

  34. Jeff Davidson

    Hi Stewart –
    Thanks for your remarks re: Charleston. I appreciate them very much.

  35. Andy

    Anyone who believes the official stories about the Charleston church shooting, Sandy Hook, etc…, is naive and obviously has not done any homework on the issues outside of believing the propaganda spewed forth by the government and the Mockingbird media.

  36. Andy

    Let’s see, a bunch of people were supposedly shot up and died in a church, yet a few days later, that same church was open for a church service. Ever hear of contaminating a crime scene? How did they clean up the church that quickly?

    How come the feds were conducting an active shooter drill in Charleston during this same time period (just like Sandy Hook and the San Bernardino shootings)? Coincidence?

    How come the families of the alleged victims from the Charleston church shooting got fast tracked millions of dollars from the federal government? Lots of people die every day, yet their families don’t get fast tracked a bunch of money from the government, including the families of murder victims.

  37. Andy

    ” She wants to shit all over our cherished symbols of historic pride to make it more like the third world cesspool from whence she came.”

    The Confederate flag had absolutely nothing to do with the shooting. First of all, Dylan Storm Roof was an obvious patsy. Second of all, even if you believe this bullshit, lots of people own or drive by memorials where there are Confederate flags every day, and they don’t kill anyone.

    I used to live in South Carolina. I lived there for several years. I’ve also spent a bunch of time in Virginia, North Carolina, Florida (including the “redneck” areas of Florida), Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, and Texas. It is not as though Confederate flags are all over the place. A few people here and there have them, and you may see one if you happen to live near a Civil War memorial (which most people do not). Most of the people who fly Confederate flags, or who have Confederate flag emblems, do not have them because they are racist, but rather they see it as a symbol of regional pride.

    Blaming the Confederate flag for a (staged) shooting, and then going on a jihad against the Confederate flag where it is ripped off of historic memorials, and going so far as canceling the “Dukes of Hazard” because the car had a Confederate flag on it, is nothing more than irrational political correctness gone wild.

    There are lots of flags that have had injustices committed under them, including the American flag. So why single the Confederate flag out, when there are plenty of flags that have had injustices committed under them? Is this not the height of hypocrisy?

    I think that the real reasons for the attack against the Confederate flag have to do with attacking the notion of secession, and the 10th amendment, which is supposed to leave issues that are not delegated to the Constitution to the federal government, to the states or to the people, and it is also an attack against the 2nd amendment, because the only demographic in this country where you’ll find really high support for the right to keep and bear arms are “rednecks,” and although there are rednecks in every state (as Jeff Foxworthy has pointed out), “rednecks” are more associated with the South (as in the former Confederate States).

  38. Andy

    This was a payoff for participating in this scam.

    DOJ Fast Tracks $29 Million to Charleston Shooting Victims’ Families.

    Video description: “DOJ Fast Tracks $29 Million to Charleston Church Shooting Victims’ Families. The funds will be paid from the government’s national Crime Victim Assistance Formula Grant program. That is estimated $3.2 million per victim’s family.”

  39. NewFederalist

    Andy- You might want to re-read the old Aesop’s fable about the boy who cried wolf.

  40. Thomas L. Knapp


    Don’t be so naive. Aesop was obviously a government presstitute helping with a coverup.

    My sources say that kid was actually crying “hey, that’s the werewolf guy” after witnessing the faked assassination of John Lennon by Stephen King. Lennon was a deep cover mole working for the US Department of Agriculture’s Wool and Mohair Subsidies program. Once his mission to prevent the rise of polyester as the preferred fabric of the disco movement had obviously failed, King was sent in to extract him; he has since retired to an undisclosed location referred to in US intel circles as “Abbey Road.”

  41. Andy

    March 11, 2016 at 08:49

    Andy- You might want to re-read the old Aesop’s fable about the boy who cried wolf.”

    I am very familiar with that and this is not what is going on here.

    I don’t throw the false flag/hoax allegations around lightly. I have researched every mass shooting incident that I have called a false flag/hoax, and I only say this based on the evidence.

    I am NOT saying that every time somebody gets shot that it is a false flag/hoax, nor am I saying that every time more than one person gets shot that it is a false flag/hoax. Real shootings happen sometimes.

    My point here is that after spending a lot of time researching a lot of the big, hyped up by the mass media shooting, a lot of people who have looked into several of these things, myself included, have come to the conclusion that a lot of these things are being staged by the government (and when I say by the government, I don’t mean by the entire government, but rather by elements within government), and they are being used to increase support for new gun control and mental health laws.

    This may sound outlandish to some people, but this is only because they have not done any homework on this issue. There are in fact very evil people in government, and they want more power, and they see the 2nd amendment as a roadblock for them taking more power. So yes, they are not above staging false flag/hoax shooting incidents to further their agenda.

    Would they be able to find enough people to go along with it? This would not be very difficult at all, particularly when you’ve got lots of government money to throw around, plus there are people out there with drug problems or tax problems or etc…, who’d be more than willing to “go to work for the government” in exchange for not going to prison or not losing their homes or etc…

    I’ve spent a lot of time working in politics, and one thing that I’ve learned in my time in politics is that there are lots of people who will do anything for money. Most of the people who are involved in the world of ballot access are in fact mercenaries who will work on anything for money, sometimes even when it would appear to not be in their long term best interest. I’d be willing to bet that if you offered money to a lot of these mercenaries in the petition business (as well as other types of political mercenaries) to take part in a government false flag/hoax meant to promote gun control laws, that a lot of them would do it. Heck, right now there are mercenaries petition circulators who are working a gun control petition in California that is paying $4 per signature. There was an initiative petition in Nevada that circulated in the fall of 2014 for a new gun control law that went up to $5 per signature, plus a .50 cent bonus if certain criteria was meant, and it did in fact qualify for the ballot and is set to be voted on this November. There was a gun control initiative that qualified for the ballot in Washington in 2014 via paid petition circulators, and it passed. There was another gun control initiative that qualified for the ballot in Maine and is set to be voted on this November. So yeah, if you offered a lot of these people money to participated in a government false flag/hoax shooting, I have no doubt that a lot of these people would do it.

    I also used to spend a lot of time in Los Angeles, and I knew a lot of people who were struggling actor and/or screenwriter types. Most of these people had leftist political leanings (they were Hollywood “liberal” types), and most of them were already opposed to gun rights. I even had a few instances where I got into debates with them over the issue of the right to keep and bear arms. I have no doubt that if you offered a lot of these people money to be crisis actors in a government false flag/hoax meant to push the gun control agenda, that they’d do it.

    How do they keep these people quite? Hush money and non-disclosure agreements would take care of it for the most part. There are likely provisions in place where if they “squeal” they go to prison or will end up dead, probably just “disappearing” or dying in an “unfortunate accident” or something like that. They probably don’t even have to worry much about anyone “squealing” because they probably to psychological profiling on people before the false flag/hoax even takes places, and if their profiler things that the person may “squeal” they are sent home before even knowing that there is going to be a false flag/hoax. The people who are running these false flag/hoaxes probably have it set up to where the crisis actors can either just shut up and take the money, or go to prison, and they are already certain to a high degree that the participants are just going to shut up and take the money, and like I said above, there are enough anti-gun rights people out there anyway where a lot of these people probably think they are doing something good by helping to take dangerous guns off the street.

  42. Andy

    “if their profiler things that the person”

    Should read, “if their profiler thinks that the person…”

  43. Andy

    Check this out, an internet troll who was attacking Sandy Hook Truthers got busted on a message board, and they got traced back to the CIA.


  44. Shivany Lane

    I think that I should get respect because i am a human being. I am also a fellow American (3rd generation so we have been here a little while)
    I was taught as a young girl that everyone deserves at least at a minimum, respect. My opinions are my own. While, as many of you pointed out, my opinions have many flaws. I am willing to discuss these with any of you. I would never make it personal. I am not as educated as many of you nor am I as wonky. So lets have a civilized debate and conversation.
    I am also an older woman. I raised 2 children on my own as a single mother. I never acceted any of the social safety nets like SNAP. My pride is higher than that. My mother taught me to respect my elders. Even if what they say may disagree with my own opinions.
    I was taught to be kind. It appears as though I have some more researc to do. Politics is not my religion.

    Disagree with me all you want. Make a logical case for your own opinion and it will likely change my opinion. Just don’t make it personal. You are a piece of shit will be offensive. Thell me my opinion is crap and this is why, will make you intelligent and polite.

    I grew up in a polite society. We were poor, yet we were civilised. Every time you are rude and make the argument personal, it shows your poor breeding. Maybe you can join the Trump supporters, they are more like you.

  45. Andy

    “Lester Fulcrum
    March 11, 2016 at 22:08

    You need an attitude adjustment. Get it through your thick head, nobody here gives a shit about your life story and nobody here owes you anything.”

    Shivany, this person is almost certainly a troll that is trying to disrupt the group, so just ignore them.

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