Posted June 1st, 2016 on the Constitution Party of Idaho’s website (via Cody Quirk at American Third Party Report)
[CPID Editor’s note: We have had a number of requests for more information regarding the recent National Convention at Salt Lake. The following response to an email inquiry is perhaps as good an explanation of Idaho’s stance as any.]
On 2016-05-30 20:38, <#####@##### > wrote: “IPR reported that the Idaho CP is nominating Scott Copeland in November instead ofDarrell Castle. Is this correct? If it is, who will the VP choice be?”
Subject: Re: Presidential Nominee
Date: 2016-05-31 10:05
Mr. Copeland participated in the Idaho Presidential Primary, March 8, 2016 and received a majority (51.5%) of the 21.3% of the registered base of the Constitution Party of Idaho who turned out to the primary poll.
Mr. J.R. Myers of Alaska was runner up, receiving 28.7% of the turnout of our state party’s registered base at primary. These will be the candidates certified.
In regards to Mr. Castle, he was well aware in late 2014 that CP-Idaho intended to hold a legitimate preference ballot. The motivating reason for doing so was that our state affiliate CP-Idaho no longer is a mere handful of persons. We totaled at the end of 2014 some 2,158 registered voters. As of May 27, 2016 we total 2,346.
The leadership of CP-Idaho did NOT believe that it, and it alone, held an inherent authority or power (to say nothing of the implied ethics and principles to do so) to declare an exclusive fait accompli upon whom the state affiliate preferred for its national candidate. We opened the process, therefore, to primary…a verifiable ballot which is, incidentally, demanded of us procedurally in the national By-Laws.
Meanwhile, Mr. Castle continued throughout 2015 “playing games”. He was a candidate-wasn’t candidate, ad nauseam. Over and over, this exact same game was played by the gentleman throughout 2015 and into 2016, literally up to the opening gavel of the national convention. This despite repeated assurances from the National Chairman, Mr. Frank Fluckiger, that the Castle campaign would declare in 2015. (The gentleman did not even file a FEC Form 2 until after the Salt Lake Convention; I leave a financial account of his campaign to the FEC to forensically decipher.)
This particular individual continued to jerk around with the hokey pokey routine, a routine that is entirely unbecoming of a mature nomination process by what professes itself to be a national political party. He had excuses for doing so, or so it has been claimed. But this behavior is genetic, apparently. It was done before, replicated almost exactly, in the 2012 nomination iteration with the same belated anointment attempt, back when Mr. Virgil Goode ran. And it was, to a degree, also repeated by the same people in 2008.
In 2016, CP-Idaho holds that the process of a national nomination is supposed to be more than just “play acting” at politics. It is a momentous matter; one in which ethics or conflicts of interest should not incur question. But that is not the case here. The entire process demonstrated by this national party has been tainted.
In compliance with state code, and specifically to remove personal preferences being cast by national delegates in lieu of a legitimate representative voice of all registered CP-Idaho voters, we set forth rules and procedures to govern our national delegation. The final copy was adopted September 24, 2015…this after the national executive committee balked at providing the actual balloting method used in national convention.
These rules were set out no less than sixty (60) days prior to the December 9, 2015 filing deadline for the March 2016 presidential primary in Idaho. Plenty of time was allotted for those considering candidacy to review them. (More would have been allotted had the national executive not dallied on providing us with the actual balloting method at national convention.) Nonetheless, these rules were sent to the national executive with a request to forward them to the recalcitrant candidate/non-candidate Castle, who has yet to respond to any email sent from this state party.
In these rules and procedures, it was clearly stated that if a candidate refused to participate and compete in the Idaho Primary, and thus refused to ask (honestly) the registered voters of Idaho for their ballot support, then that candidate who refused to do so, thereby insulting the Idaho electorate, would be deemed as having forfeited consideration on the November General Election ballot in Idaho.
Those were the rules and procedures under which this state party entered into an agreement with the presidential candidates–we had three gentlemen candidates stand at primary–who did file and compete. Apparently, Mr. Castle did not believe he needed to compete for votes. Perhaps it was considered an inherent right of entitlement. Regardless, these Rules & Procedures remain operative. CP-Idaho will not entertain an ex post facto alteration of those rules. Mr. Castle forfeited Idaho, and we believe he did so knowingly and willfully. Whether done by arrogant spite or not, that judgment is up to God to decide. We are moving onward.
The United States Constitution itself is nothing more than a set of societal rules for self government. Too many today choose to ignore those guiding rules…if not ignore any and all other rules and traditions. But as for CP-Idaho, we will not do so.
Mr. Castle knew what the rules were; he refused to contact this state party despite numerous efforts on our part to extend invitations to public events and public debate. All three of the candidates who did stand at primary also stood at debate. This is how legitimate process works. It honors the electorate, providing them with information upon which to make an informed decision.
Apparently, Mr. Castle could care the less…because he knew that he did not need to compete in Idaho. He had internal control over the levers of the Constitution Party establishment, which were operated by insider party apparatchiks. Evidence? He and his ilk did indeed do so by a deliberate censoring of any and all references to other national campaigns seeking the nomination…as the apparatchiks reserved prime and exclusive space on the national website head page for an ongoing promotion of that particular gentleman’s podcasts, for example. The nomination process was flat out corrupted by favoritism, plainly stated. Those “aces up the sleeve” often come in handy. But that is still cheating, nevertheless.
Excluding Idaho, no state delegation supposedly representing their constituents at the national convention, actually possessed any established rules and procedures governing their delegates. We did have them in force. Further, few states if any (other than Idaho) can demonstrate that they performed a valid and verifiable preference ballot, whether by primary or by caucus. They cannot demonstrate they even bothered to ask for the preference of their registered base. The conclusion is that they did not, despite their pretenses.
At some point, when a political organization claims that it “stands on principle,” that organization must actually do so, or it becomes little more than an impotent hypocrite, utterly useless. With that as a foundation, it will not withstand the onslaught of corruption. The national Constitution Party has failed in this regard.
In direct contrast, indeed perhaps in defiance, CP-Idaho shall stand upon principle, even if the national party refuses to do so. The national nomination is not supposed to be reduced to “Version 5.0” of a personality cult program; it is not supposed to be a country club insider brokered elitist procession; it is not supposed to be sheep following the orders of some master, leaving the rank and file base of this party consigned to mournful bleating…so long as it is kept within the fences set up by a clique. Not all shepherds are good. And if they justify doing this in the least of things, the appropriate concern should be “How would they act if they actually did have governmental power?”
We maintain that deliberate actions, like those of the Castle campaign/non-campaign, have consequences. Certainly, customary and minimal protocols exist regarding the relationship between someone seeking elective office and those who elect that person; but the gentleman evidently believed he was above all that. A usurpation of sorts, a coup against caring what any others had to say.
The gentleman is “entitled” to nothing more than what was set forth in the rules. Our conscious here in Idaho is clear. We will not ignore or bend or twist or wink or nod at the rules. We expect them to be followed; and they will be followed this year, this election.
CP-Idaho shall stand upon principle, instead of just incessantly talking about doing so, as the multitudinous “patriot” this or “liberty minded” that are too often wont to do.
Thus, the certified 2016 national ticket in Idaho will beCopeland/Myers.
-Floyd Whitley
Chairman
Absolutely! And as long as you don’t sign up to post articles or find someone to sign up you will have no say in that agenda. But as soon as you sign up, you will have a great deal of influence over that agenda. We exercise very little oversight over our writers/editors.
On a note to those writers/editors, please mark all comments by Kareem Caliente AKA Freudian Slip AKA Nathan Norman as SPAM (not trash…SPAM) whenever you see them, regardless of the content of the particular comment. Note to everyone: please do not respond to any such comments, as it makes the job of marking them as spam and deleting them afterwards more difficult, because it creates the dilemma between making the conversation retroactively disjointed and allowing him to keep posting here.
Please note that IPR policy has not changed. If you wish to change it please bring it up on the email list, not allow it to be violated by failing to enforce the agreed upon policy just because I don’t have time to do it right now.
https://amthirdpartyreport.com/2016/06/06/constitution-party-of-idaho-puzzled/
News from California . I just had another telecom with the Fresno County ROV about the “Independent
Party” of Deemer and Gary Odom’s mom. She took my additional suggestion on how to deal with the
purported “Independent Party” in Fresno County. Now it will be ever harder for them to get electors
in Fresno County.
The case to the 9th circuit now is an even more waste of time on the part of Lussenheide and Deemer.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Chairman, American Independent Party of California
Floyd, you’ve been very clever. Never actually coming out and saying he doesn’t have cancer. Just implying it strongly by calling it a … “health issue”, with quotes in place. Or by suggesting it’s a convenient excuse.
You want to suggest impropriety on the part of the party? You’re wrong, but that’s your call. If you want to say someone is faking cancer for political reasons, you’d better have some damned evidence or I’m going to call you out on it like the little cockroach you are.
“You seem to believe that you (plural) are “entitled”. That you don’t have to follow rules or codes. With such a crooked set of self-professed principles, why would any reasonable voter want to support the Castle-tution Party? The answer is they won’t.”
You seem confused. I’m not a member of the CP. Certainly not a leader. I will be voting for Gary Johnson this time around and I’m a registered Republican for convenience sake. I just realize you’re full of crap.
These are the facts. Don Grundmann at the 2008 CP Convention in Kansas City, wanted to run for POTUS.
However, he had no one other than himself on the California Delegation that wanted him to run for POTUS.
I was elected the Chairman of the California Delegation to the Convention. It was Mrs. Hill that placed
my name in nomination for Chairman of the California Delegation. Don Grundmann did not show up at
the called meeting of the California Delegation. Deemer did not show up at that meeting either. Deemer
however claimed on the floor that he was the Chairman of the Delegation from California. Chairman
of the national party ruled that I was the Chairman of the California Delegation and Deemer did not
appeal the ruling of the chair.
It was on 2 September 2008, which Don Grundmann was his last day as a member of the State Central
Committee. Just over two years before he became a nominee-delegate in June, 2006 with a six year term.
That would of give him a six year membership on the State Central Committee. However, the fool Grundmann runs for the National Committee on September 3, 2006. He get elected, so his term on
the National Committee ends that six year term, and placed Grundmann in a two year term. That
created an open seat, so Don Lake got to fill out the remainder of the term which was originally of
Dr. Don Grundmann.
Then we have Dr. Don Grundmann on a date he was no longer a member of the State Central Committee
claiming that he was the Vice Chairman of the AIP, when I was the elected Vice Chairman. Following that
he claims he was the Chairman of the “REAL AMERICAN INDEPENDENT PARTY”. Then at the meeting
on October 11, 2014 in Fresno, CA, the cabal of Lussenheide, Grundmann, Odoms mom, amd Deemer,
form the ” INDEPENDANT PARTY”. So the first thing Grunmann does is try to add the word “Real” to the
name of “American Independent Party”, to call the entity the “Real American Independent Party”.
Then on October 11, 2014, the cabal forms a new entity calling themselves the “INDEPENDENT PARTY”.
It gets rejected by the California Secretary of State. A lawsuit is filed on February 16, 2016. They lose
on May 4, 2016. They file an appeal on May 17, 2016. On May 23, 2016, the Fresno County ROV, takes
the 654 “Independent Party” electors from Fresno County, the formation county of the “INDEPENDENT
PARTY” and places them on the role of the “INDEPENDENT CALIFORNIA PARTY”. Therefore, if the
cabal was to win in the United States Court of Appeals, they still are losers, because those 654 electors
can not be counted in the total for the “INDEPENDENT PARTY”, because they are on the role of the
“Independent California Party” a political body in the State of California. What the CP is doing in California is beating a dead horse. My question is when Lussenheide will sue the Fresno County ROV?
At least we know now that 654 Electors in Fresno County listed the “Independent Party” as the party
on the application to register. That is while the total in the “Constitution Party of California stands at
288 electors for the entire State of California. This shows a falling of over 15% in just over one month.
Don Lake got on the State Central Committee of the AIP, because of the fact Don Grundmann was elected for a two year term to the National Committee on September 3, 2006. That put Don Lake on
the State Central Committee until 2012 of the AIP.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Chairman, American Independent Party
@ Kareem
“Please cease disenfranchising the people of Idaho.”
Actually, those truly disfranchising the people of Idaho are the Castle-tution Party people who seem to ignore those 485 living ballots cast…canvassed…and certified.
I have yet to see any other state “group” produce a verifiable statewide preference ballot…to include the number of voters receiving ballots, the percent of their respective turnouts, the names of the candidates on the statewide ballots…you know…that standard sort of stuff that a real and a legitimate political party would do (and actually must do).
The primary was mandatory. Castle forfeited consideration in Idaho.
@ Grundmann
“faking cancer”…Show me where I said that, by denotation, verbatim.
“Your Crusade reminds me that our biggest enemies come from within our ranks;”…with this, I couldn’t agree more. However, I question your capacity to identify them.
For example, “with Mr. Keyes and his lackeys like Seidenberg, in shooting the rest of us in the back for our perceived and claimed inferiority to you.”…that’s psycho-babble. I have no clue what you are talking about.
“Take the Idaho CP out of the national party.” You people sure are confused on that separation of powers thing. A very telling fault.
“…anyone who feels slighted in the slightest way” Actually, no. I don’t feel slighted at all. My feelings have nothing to do with any of this.
CP-Idaho is going to follow the rules, the procedures, the codes and the By-Laws. Read Deuteronomy on the matter. Chapter 6, I believe.
Antirevolutionary,
Don Grundmann has until July 11th to get the Constitution Party ballot qualified in California as the “First
Chairman” with the other “Chairman” Gary Odom. They could of got ballot qualified a long time ago,
Frank directed to do that process at the meeting on October 11, 2014. However, It did not happen.
Under the leadership of Grundmann and Odom, the Constitution Party registration in California has
fallen to 288 electors in the entire State of California on May 23, 2016. In Don Grundmann’s own
county it is down to just six electors.
What the Fresno cabal did was form an entity name the “Independent Party”, The Secretary of State
rejected the name, because it was too close to the name of the “American Independent Party”. They
sued on February 16, 2016 and lost on May 4, 2016. They appealed on May 17, 2016. Therefore, the
ROV in Fresno County took action and took all of the 654 “Independent Party” electors in Fresno
County on the roles of the “Independent California Party” which is a political body in California,
Therefore, Deemer, Lussenheide, the Grundmann’s, and Gary Odom’s mother are even bigger losers,
because even if they won the case in the 9th circuit they will not be able to count any “Independent
Party” electors vote in Fresno County, CA (which is the formation county of the “Independent Party”).
Don Don Grundmann has not been on the State Central Committee of the American Independent
Party of California, since September 2, 2008. He was removed by his own County Central Committee,
early in 2008, by its County Chairman, Patrick Colglazier.
To Don Grundmann, I have never filed “fake documents” with anyone. I howver, note that you have claimed in the past that you were the “Chairman” of the “Real American Independent Party”. Was that
claim to confuse the California electorate, like the current bogus claim there is a “Independent Party”.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Chairman, American Independent Party of California.
… Unless Idaho disaffiliates.
At this rate, Idaho will soon be to the CP what Oregon is to the LP.
Don Grundmann, since you are here, is there any chance that Castle will be on the ballot in California as an independent? If not, who will you vote for in the presidential election? Mark Seidenberg, your tone is getting more outlandish every year as you throw your apparent victory over control of the AIP in people’s faces.
Mr. Whitley – I am a singular person. I am not part of ” you people.” I am not speaking for, or have any connection to, the national office.
From my viewpoint you are blowing smoke when you claim that national is ” dictating ” anything to your party.
You are essentially telling them to go to Hell anyway. Isn’t that enough for you?
My concern is that you are also working to ” dictate ” that every other state party does exactly what you do/did or you will declare us all as unclean/impure/whatever and refuse to aid in, what I consider to be, our collective battle.
Years ago I made a reference to a CP friend that while I may have differences with many of my fellow CPers such things could always be discussed and worked out as my primary concern was that we all shoot the same way – at the enemy.
Your Crusade reminds me that our biggest enemies come from within our ranks; be it from fake conservatives such as Alan Keyes who are lackeys of the Plantation Masters/Republican Establishment and who seek to destroy us or those such as yourself who are apparently not interested in discussion but, as with Mr. Keyes and his lackeys like Seidenberg, in shooting the rest of us in the back for our perceived and claimed inferiority to you. .
So go ahead. Have fun throwing your rocks and beating us over the head with your superior righteousness. Accuse us all of lying, faking cancer, whatever. Take the Idaho CP out of the national party.
The rest of us will simply carry on the fight without you. Fighting as best we can each day but perhaps being more refreshed because we know that we will no longer have the Idaho CP working to put a knife in our back as is clearly demonstrated by your ballot access actions.
You will win your superiority arguments. Yes, we are all infidels to your superior and galactic knowledge.
Yes, the cause of freedom takes yet another hit as our message is dimmed by those who seek their own aggrandizement. Not for the first time and it certainly won’t be the last. But hey, who cares? Right?
This is obviously not a battle where our collective efforts go to defeat the enemies of our nation but one where anyone who feels slighted in the slightest way as to the acknowledgement of their greatness will withdraw their support from the war. And if the battle be lost – so what? In this case the person, who claims that principle is more important, is more important than the principle.
I must presume that Mr. Copeland agrees with your attack on national; which is also an attack upon every other state affiliate of the CP.
The presidential nomination is a national matter. There is no President of Idaho.
Mr. Whitley,
Please cease disenfranchising the people of Idaho. They should have the option to vote for the real Constitution Party presidential nominee the Honorable Darrell Castle.
@ Grundmann:
” I will make the following statement(s) and declare them as true unless you choose to correct them –”
We do not live under Code civil des Français, Mr. Grundmann. But you know that.
Regardless, declare what you will.
The national Constitution Party is an abject liar when it states in Article II-State Affiliation, Paragraph 3, that “Nothing in this Constitution or the bylaws of the Constitution Party shall confer upon the national party any authority to direct the internal affairs of any state affiliate.”
Everything that you people are doing puts the lie to it.
2 things –
1) A fact – Mark Seidenberg is a literal criminal. He was part of a 3 person criminal conspiracy which deliberately filed fake documents with the California Secretary of State office to seize control of the AIP in California. He is an agent of the Republican Party, its ” Establishment ” branch, and also of the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League. He was dispatched by his controllers to infiltrate the AIP and in that position destroy both the AIP and the CP. He was an agent of his controllers from the first second he entered the party. His criminality is documented at TheCorruptionofAlanKeyes.BlogSpot.com. He is a non-stop 24/7/365 liar and an enemy of the conservative movement, the Constitution, and our nation as a whole. A Benedict Arnold of our time.
2) Mr. Whitley – Let’s get to the bottom of the issue. I will make the following statement(s) and declare them as true unless you choose to correct them –
A) No person nominated by any state other than Idaho as a candidate for the Presidential nomination of the Constitution Party is considered by Idaho as a legitimate candidate unless – 1) they have participated in the Idaho primary, and/or 2) their state uses the exact same nominating process/procedures/protocol as does Idaho.
B) Any primary vote/process for a Presidential candidate by any state affiliate of the Constitution Party which does not follow the process/procedures/protocol of the Idaho CP is considered invalid and null by the Idaho CP.
C) Any national CP convention presidential nominating process must demand that every state use the Idaho process/procedures/protocol for the selection of a Presidential candidate nominee. The vote of any state which refuses to use the Idaho process/procedures/protocol will be denied and their chosen candidate disavowed by the Idaho CP. If the national CP convention does not follow the demands of Idaho that each state use its procedures/process/protocols in the selection of their candidate then the ultimate nominee of the convention will be denied access to the Idaho CP Presidential ballot line.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman, Constitution Party of California
“by alleging, or implying, his cancer is an imagined excuse or reason, or indeed that he does not have cancer at all” To the contrary.
Actually, YOU brought the subject of cancer up, not me. Go back and read it. Yes, I pointed out the the “games” played in 2016 were identical to those played in 2012, by the same gentleman..who cried “wolf” one too many times. As for the gentleman’s health, or lack thereof, I am not privy.
All you have done here, is set up a straw man argument and hurl insults at the bale. Despite your attempts to sell it, that straw man guy you set up…is all you, and your wild imaginations. Stick voodoo pins in it, all you will.
You seem to believe that you (plural) are “entitled”. That you don’t have to follow rules or codes. With such a crooked set of self-professed principles, why would any reasonable voter want to support the Castle-tution Party? The answer is they won’t.
You people have all but eliminated yourselves from contention. And the folks cleaning up on this are the Libertarian Party. They are getting all the votes and then some that you are foolishly discarding by insisting that your political mafioso can go about and extort.
What I hope, is that you continue to keep this in full public view. I want you (plural) to continue to expend and waste your energies upon CP-Idaho. Please continue to do so throughout the Summer of 2016 and show how smart you are.
I can’t image any campaign doing anything stupider than that. Maybe that’s your plan, kind of a deflection. Since you don’t have anything of substance to offer, no credible legislative proposals, nothing much in the way of ballot access, you need a straw man to hate.
Hate is always an easy sell among those who depend on entitlements. Well, hate away if you think that will work for you.
Hate. Finger point. Name call. Stand on your head. Chant voodoo. Whatever. But CP-Idaho will nevertheless follow the rules and the code.
“Floyd threatens criminal prosecution and lawsuits.” Not me.
I am saying that lawsuits can be brought against up, CP-Idaho, if we do not apply the rules and procedures under which the primary ballot took place.
As to the “delegate vote” please demonstrate the foundation of that vote…by producing the statewide legitimate preferences balances that each state delegation had to have before they can claim they cast a representative state ballot.
Mr. Castle did not compete at primary in Idaho and has ZERO votes here. ” That “evidence” is a matter of publick record.”
“that “health issue” did not preclude a regular publication of podcasts”
Again you cast aspersions on Castle by alleging, or implying, his cancer is an imagined excuse or reason, or indeed that he does not have cancer at all. You’re a rat, a swine, and a pathetic piece of trash. That’s as nicely as it can be put. I hope that at your upcoming state convention, the party you claim to lead will throw you out on your ass.
Like a typical statist and petty tyrant Floyd threatens criminal prosecution and lawsuits. Castle won 54.19% of the delegate vote. Copeland won 30.49%. That “evidence” is a matter of publick record. If you claim fraud the burden is on you to provide evidence. You have not proven any fraud. The national party has no duty to mouth feed candidate information to delegates.
“Vast majority,” while cavalierly alleged by the gentleman, has not been proven.
Produce evidence of legitimate preference ballots taken from the electorate of the statewide parties, in full and complete compliance with respective state codes.
Without them, you have no standing, and may well be condoned election fraud.
In any case, without them, the candidate brokered by a national convention (which lacks authority over internal affairs in Idaho) is (a) illegitimate prima facie, and said person is (b) an unknown to this state party.
Call me whatever names you will.
The claim of “vast majority” is suspect, given a patently clear unlawful orchestrated effort by national officers to redact any and all mention of competing campaigns. This is in evidence. And this demonstrates the employment of unlawful and untruthful actions by the national Constitution Party and several of ts officers.
Those same officers continued in conspiracy, as evidence by the communications dispatched approximately one week prior to the national convention.
I don’t know about you, but some of this seems to me to broach criminal activity under voting rights acts, but in any case an ex post facto alteration of the rules and procedures employed at the time of the primary, would spark numerous civil litigation at the lest.
The Constitution Party of Idaho has cast its preference ballot. I repeat myself; Mr. Castle is not “entitled” to anything in Idaho other than the equitable application of the rules and the state code.
Sell your “principles” of entitlement elsewhere.
“The Idaho CP is an affiliate of the national CP.” True.
The national CP gets to dictate internal affairs in CP-Idaho. False.
“The vast majority of the national party has decided Castle is the nominee.” Irrelevant.
The nominee did not participate in the mandatory primary. Fact.
Article II–Purpose (National Party Constitution) “Promote by all lawful and truthful means the election of Presidential and Vice presidential candidates…” Not in evidence.
The Castle campaign did not comply with the lawful mandatory primary. Fact.
The Castle campaign did not obtain its position truthfully. Fact. [Demonstrated too many times already.]
If Mr. Castle wanted to be considered in idaho, he knew what was required. Fact.
It is the Castle campaign which continues to demonstrate petty tyranny. Fact.
If
President is a national office. Castle is the national CP nominee. The Idaho CP is an affiliate of the national CP. The vast majority of the national party has decided Castle is the nominee. The people of Idaho should have the opportunity to vote for the national nominee in November. By standing in the way of the people of Idaho you are revealing yourself as a statist and petty tyrant.
@ Seidenberg:
The issue is…these people are without any apparent rules & procedures governing national delegates in place. They are without any evidence that a legitimate preference ballot ever took place prior to their so-called delegation casting what was an allegedly representative statewide ballot at national convention.
They are without any evidence that they directly asked any of their “288” electors anything. If they did do so, then they should be able to produce the ballots, even if they only held so much as a state caucus.
In contrast, CP-Idaho does possess a direct preference ballot totaling 485 living and breathing Idahoans, who reflect over 21% of our statewide registered base in the turnout to the preference poll, with votes cast in 39 out of 44 counties.
The suggestion that California’s supposed state affiliate is an “organization” at par with CP-Idaho is patently absurd. Equal footing has nothing to do with it…honesty however does.
Worse, the California affiliate–by whatever confused construction it seeks to manifest itself on any particular day (depending on what your definition of “is” is)–is indicative of the problem in the national Constitution Party at large.
California’s affiliate (if that is in fact what it is…jury’s still out, apparently) is NOT the exception. Texas has a similar circumstance. California merely reflects the general condition of many (if not most) state “groups” within the national Constitution Party.
But hey, let’s rabble rouse some thugs to intimidate and demand that this model be kept. The question is: To what end?
Ecclesiastes tells us there is a time and purpose for everything under heaven. Some say (with no little justification) that the Constitution Party’s time has passed. Its purpose is certainly unclear.
Does that mean that the Constitution Party’s time will never come? Or that it will never realize its purpose? No.
But, it will certainly not do so under its current model. That much is clear.
Let’s switch from Idaho to California. Only yesterday, the California Secretary of State gave the status of
the cabal that Dr. Don Grundmann is the “First Chairman”. It has went way down is electors for the
State of California, viz. 288 electors. Yes the “Constitution Party of California” now stands at 288 California Electors and only 6 in his whole county. Dr. Grundmann is the “First Chairman” and his mother is the “Vice Chairperson”. Gary Odom is the other “Chairman” of the Constitution Party of California.
It was on October 11, 2014 at a meeting of this cabal that the “Independent Party” was formed. The
meeting took place in Fresno, CA. The elected Chairman of the “Independent Party” was Mr. Charles
M. Deemer (Treasurer of the Constitution Party of California) . Its Secretary-Treasurer was the
mother of Gary Odom. At the time Deemer notice the CA SOS in February, 2015 of the formation
of the “Independent Party” , Gary Odom’s mother was an elector in the “American Independent Party of
California”.
It was on May 23, 2016, that the Fresno County ROV took the 654 Fresno County Electors that were
registered as in the “Independent” party and assigns them to the “Independent California Party”. The
“Independent Party” and sued on February 16, 2016 the CA SOS and lost on May 4, 2016. Then they
appealed on May 17, 2016. So the Fresno County ROV ruled that the 654 Fresno County Electors
would be assigned to the “Independent California Party”. This made the Grundmann’s, Deemer, Gary
Odom’s mom, and William “Bill” Lussenheide real big losers, because even if they win on the appeal
in the 9th Circuit they lost those 654 electors in the count for qualification to party status.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Chairman, American Independent Party of California
“Idaho CP, please throw this bum (Floyd) out.”
I refer the gentleman to the following article: http://www.cpidaho.org/archives/flatline/
According to the March 2016 edition of Mr. Richard Winger’s Ballot Access News, in October 2012 on the eve of the immediate past presidential election, the Constitution Party had 77,918 members. As of March 2016, Mr. Winger reported that the national Constitution Party had 77,916 members…in other words, the national Constitution Party has accomplished a net loss of two voters nationally in going on four years.
During this same time period as of March 2016, and in stark contrast to the prevailing morbidity of the national Constitution Party, CP-Idaho GREW by 661 voters. As of 27 May 2016, CP-Idaho added another 71 registered to that growth.
So, “this bum (Floyd)” has managed to do what the national Constitution Party is apparently incapable of doing.
“This bum” will again be generous. I will style the national party as being capable of a strategic planning model…a stretch of factual evidence to be sure. In any case, that “model” in use by the national Constitution Party Executive Committee and the National Committee has clearly failed. And lest we forget, in 2008, (including IAP totals–which is circumspect at best) the national Constitution party membership was allegedly 438,222.
Which part of this evident trajectory suggests success? Or for that matter even oxygen.
Regardless, the political “wisdom” of the national Constitution Party continuing to dispatch its thugs in an effort to intimidate CP-Idaho, continues to keep these wounds open. And the longer they do that, the more damage they do to whatever credibility they believe they possess.
So, I agree with one poster above, that is “idiotic”. The wiser course of action for the national Constitution Party is to take this as an object lesson in 2016, and move on graciously. If it doesn’t do that, there will not be a 2020. The trajectory alone seems to suggest that much.
CP-Idaho will follow the rules and procedures. The national party can do what it will. Slap some more whitewash on the tombs, as if that changes anything…other than semblance. The substance is well known.
Signed,
“this bum”
“…disenfranchising everyone in Idaho who wants to vote for the Constitution Party nominee (Castle)”
I have an embossed letter under the seal of the State of Idaho around here someplace, that was signed by the Idaho Secretary of State, dated 23 March 2016, which certifies three Constitution Party of Idaho presidential candidates.
Mr. Copeland has 250. Mr. Myers has 139. Mr. Ockander has 96. Perhaps the gentleman protesting can find Mr. Castle’s name thereupon. I do not.
Or, perhaps the gentleman suggests that the official canvass by the State of Idaho is in error? If so, then it is the gentleman who must produce corroborating evidence.
Until such time, therefore, Mr. Castle has ZERO Constitution Party of Idaho votes.
And until such time as the national Constitution Party, in whole and in part, can produce evidence that its respective state affiliates have an equivalent document, and an equivalent preference process, then whatever process the national Constitution Party says it has is not only illegitimate, it disfranchises Idaho voters who did engage in a legitimate preference ballot.
Produce the evidence.
(I will even take into lenient consideration some form of medical evidence that indicates that all of these alleged state party affiliates supposedly in existence are still alive and capable of breathing. I’ll even generously consider such evidence if its only some indication that it’s on life support and in an irreversible coma.)
Not only that, Sean, it’s Constitution Party politics ;3
“I wish everyone involved with the so-called “brouhaha” could take a step back, take a deep breath, and see how idiotic this all looks and sounds.”
In perfect world such humanity would rise above petty squabbles like this.
But alas, this is non-major party politics.
Wow. This Floyd guy is a real jackass. For someone who supposedly cares about the will of the people he is disenfranchising everyone in Idaho who wants to vote for the Constitution Party nominee (Castle) instead some inconsequential loser (Copeland). People of the Idaho CP, please throw this bum (Floyd) out.
Wow, it’s been a long time since I’ve seen Grundmann comment on here without using ad homenims and personal attacks.
Wow! Not only is Castle/Bradley DOA in Idaho but California as well! I hope you guys enjoy President Trump/Rodham-Clinton! You are doing NOTHING to help prevent it. Quote me some more scripture and feel self righteous and then just shut up and get out of the way. You are worse than worthless!
@ Grundmann:
“Lastly, why don’t you just ” come out of the closet ” and say it – Darrell Castle was lying about his cancer and/or diagnosis. You dance around it and say and imply everything…”
Actually, I imply nothing. His cancer is not germane, and thus its introduction is incompetent and immaterial.
The Idaho Primary was mandatory. He knew this. The national Chairman knew this. The entire National Executive Committee knew this, or should have known this.
Mr. Whitley – I am not going to spend the time to verify the procedures of other state parties. They do what they do just as you do what you do. They are not answerable to you for the purity of their procedures or their lack of following your template. I trust them to do the best that they can and extend to you the same trust. If they are different from you, me, or anyone else I am not going to throw rocks at them for that nor will I throw roses their way. Idaho accepts those candidates which it does and by its own process; just as any other state is free to do. Because we all choose who we want to support in our own particular way does not automatically imply that the national office is corrupt in any way. You support who you support. Good for you. That does not imply, or should not, that other states are only free to support the candidates whom are acceptable to you and no one else. I consider us all to be equal and that Idaho is not more equal than others.
Regarding the ” Castle Report ” I consider that the CP needed a foreign policy outreach to the public and hence there was nothing wrong at all with Darrells’ Report continuing even when he had cancer. It should be obvious that it is easier to write a column or do a podcast than campaign more vigorously when you are dealing with an illness. Hence your compliant simply sounds like you are looking for even the smallest stone to throw as a justification for your overall attack. You were just as free to write a ” Whitley Report ” for domestic or other issues if you chose to do so.
Lastly, why don’t you just ” come out of the closet ” and say it – Darrell Castle was lying about his cancer and/or diagnosis. You dance around it and say and imply everything up to just coming out and saying it. Just be open about it and don’t try to hide behind nuances.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman, Constitution Party of California
@ Grundmann:
“But the unstated foundation of your argument(s) is that ONLY those candidates who campaigned in Idaho are acceptable to be possible candidates of the national party irregardless of the primary procedures in ANY other states.”
No. Actually you have it completely backwards.
Here…after editing it should read thus: “Only those candidates who campaigned in Idaho are acceptable to be possible candidates of the STATE Party.”
Furthermore, because you used it in your argumentative construction as IF it were fact, it now falls upon you to PROVE that alleged fact. Did “primary procedures” occur in “ANY other states”. And if so where? And is so when? And if so under what authority? And if so is it verifiable?
You cannot do that, and you know it. And so does the national party. it is time to quit pretending.
Article III, paragraph 3 of the Constitution of the Constitution Party states: “Nothing in this Constitution or the bylaws of the Constitution Party shall confer upon the national party any authority to direct the internal affairs of any state affiliate.” The Constitution Party of Idaho reads this paragraph strictly.
Election rules and procedures are an internal affair under the strict authority of the state affiliate, in compliance with Idaho elections law.
Under the authority enumerated through the Idaho Code, at §34-707, the Constitution Party of Idaho takes up its power of ballot right and political association. National and Statewide Constitution Party candidates who seek ballot participation in Idaho shall follow the rules and procedures set forth by this state affiliate.
The national party is in breach of its own national party charter in this matter. It is indeed seeking to direct the internal affairs of CP-Idaho through intimidation. And all the while you do but expose the national party’s deceit. One thing is obvious. It is not what it advertises itself to be.
Simple then..prove that primary or caucus ballots exist across the states which sent national delegates.
Prove that a legitimate preference ballot took place prior to alleging that ALL of the national delegates present represented anyone other than their own personal bigoted opinions.
If ALL other states with delegations (so-called) did NOT hold a verifiable caucus count under established procedures that demonstrably were followed, or, if they cannot demonstrate a verifiable primary ballot exists, then the people in Idaho absolutely were disfranchised.
In fact, CP-idaho was disfranchised by the evident corruption of process in the exact same manner as is now in use by party operatives called super-delegates in the Democrat Party. The CP cannot decry the forced selection of Hillary Clinton by Democrat insider operatives, if it will not decry the exact same thing done at Salt Lake.
Mr. Castle forfeited Idaho. it’s as simple as that. He does not get a do over.
We do not do coronations in Idaho.
” We are standing upon the principle that the people must have a legitimate voice.”
But the unstated foundation of your argument(s) is that ONLY those candidates who campaigned in Idaho are acceptable to be possible candidates of the national party irregardless of the primary procedures in ANY other states.
The logical continuation of your claim is that no matter what other candidates were chosen by other states and no matter how the gathered national convention of those states collectively chose their nominee out of the process of all states gathering and collectively deciding it is ONLY the opinion/choice of Idaho that counts – for everyone.
Hence if other states have different/unpure/unclean/whatever processes of choosing their candidate preference which are different from that of Idaho they are automatically inferior and their choice is automatically unacceptable. Therefore they should never have chosen in the first place because ONLY Idaho is pure enough to make a nomination choice and everyone else MUST follow their lead and choice because it is the ONLY acceptable possibility.
Bottom LIne Claim – ONLY Idaho gives/gave a ” legitimate voice ” to the people.
The people of ANY other state can ” pound sand ” because their voice/choice/preference does not count.
And if you don’t agree then Idaho will take all of its marbles and go home.
Yes, rules should be followed but the rest of the CP besides Idaho is NOT ” chopped liver.”
We can respect Idaho and even be aided by their example and education of our collective faults but we can actually have our own perfectly valid choices and candidates who and which are no less valuable despite the contemptuous sneers of Idaho that imply their inferiority and the worthlessness of any and all other choices than their own.
The ” legitimate voice of the people ” is just as valid when it comes from California, Florida, Maine, or Alaska as it is from Idaho.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman, Constitution Party of California
The CP must address these issues and more if it is to grow and prosper. There must be structural reforms that allow CP members from across the nation to participate in a meaningful way. There must be an increase in the use of social and electronic media to conduct official party business. Communications between the state parties, regional officers and National CP need to be greatly improved. State parties need to be strengthened. Only legitimate state parties should be recognized, no paper parties with “super delegates”. Party positions and apparatus should never be used to exclude and/or promote one legitimate campaign over another. The top down approach must be abandoned in favor of the grassroots up approach. The national CP convention should only be held AFTER all the state CP conventions are held. The current system is backwards. Alaska has not even held a 2016 convention yet. We will ratify CP nominees at our convention. Only after that will any official candidate list be submitted to the Alaska Division of Elections for ballot certification.
I am coming late to the party so to speak in regards to this issue. Two things stand out to me, one Idaho’s delegation cast all of its votes for Mr. Copeland(as a side note so did my state of PA) so how were the people of Idaho disenfranchised? or not given a voice? Like I said I do not know all the issues but to me it seems like frustration and possibly a bit of anger because the results did not go a particular way. The second thing that stands out to me is that this reminds me of the Oregon group and also the “Peroutka” faction at Tampa. The constitution party is not a faith or religion, nor should it be. If we seek to govern unbelievers, quoting the bible will get you nowhere. Jesus never came down to establish a human govt., so why do we try to impose that on others. Give people their freedom to do as they wish and win them over by example. At least thats how I see it. If we do not come together to fight tyranny, it will over take us all. This is not a personal attack on anyone, but I have seen this a few times before and I’m telling you this is not the way to effect change in this society. Thanks.
We are being asked to ignore the rules by the national CP thugs. We will not do that.
We are being asked to override the will of the people in Idaho. We will not do that.
The people, when they cast their vote, had every right to expect that the process would be honest, fair, level and that their vote actually mattered in a square count. What national is now asking that we in Idaho do is unacceptable. It is a corruption. We will not do that.
What this so-called national party has gotten away with for far too long is the hypocrisy of its interpretation of those rules…the “excuse” always seems to be…they don’t apply to us. Why? Because the logic runs that CP corruption and CP establishment thuggish manipulation of party insider mechanics is somehow “better” than that same stuff found in the Republican establishment? As if. National CP twisting of rules and its proclivity toward personality cultism is somehow more righteous and smarter than that same stuff found in the Democrat establishment? As if.
To conclude, this is not a “personal” issue. We are standing upon the principle that the people must have a legitimate voice. That has not happened, and to be honest has never happened, in the CP.
a. For those who insults us, produce evidence that their affiliate held a verifiable primary or caucus preference.
b. Publish the numbers of registered base primary or caucus ballots duly cast under official oversight.
c. Publish the place and the time of those ballots were taken.
d. Publish the public notice required to take those primary or caucus ballots.
e. Publish the mechanism of specific state election codes under which those ballots were taken.
f. Publish the certification of those ballots.
g. Publish the Rules & Procedures governing your state’s national delegates, and by this, an ex post facto invention will not suffice.
If you cannot do that, you have an illegitimate process.
But this party knows that. It just simply doesn’t care. And the circular reasoning returns right back to the hypocrisy of it all. Around and around she goes. Rules?…Baah! They don’t apply to the national Constitution Party…because?…fill in the blank. There are a lot of excuses, and none of them valid.
This is a fundamental dispute. The national Constitution Party must examine its own soul first. It styles itself as the physician to all others. But again from Scriptures, this stiff necked and obstinate people cannot even see straight.
Blind leading blind…and both are in the ditch…and so because of that, of course, the prevailing national CP “wisdom” is to send a flood or recriminations and curses.
CP-Idaho did not put the national party into that ditch; we did not lead it there. To the contrary. The national party found it all on their own.
I am at a loss to understand why all of this new found interest in Idaho by the party’s national campaign. That certainly was not in evidence by them back in late 2014 and early 2015. And it definitely was no where in evidence in Albuquerque.
It is interesting too that CP-Idaho alone is being singled out. My understanding is that our sister state affiliate, CP-Oregon, which already dissented in 2012 and in 2008 with their ballot line, is also not entertaining listing.
I do however understand the penchant to rely on personified attacks, like those above. That rhetorical form is easier to effect than it is to deal with the issues, such as those Mr. Haran noted. This party is in the ditch. I here disagree with Mr. Haran’s suggestion that I contact the National Committee. That has been tried numerous times. Obviously, doing the same thing over and over and over will not result in any changes, as Einstein put it. Faustian bargains are also ill advised in any case.
Regarding the issue of cancer, as brought up by Mr. Hill’s vitriol and invective, several points:
1. That “issue” was not evident or even a concern in Pittsburgh in early 2015 when the parsimonious handful of words that the gentleman involved bestowed upon lowly CP-Idaho’s chairman. At that time, the gentleman gave his word that he would compete in Idaho. Subsequently, that same word was given repeatedly by the don’s proxies throughout 2015. That word was not kept; flip flops, manipulations, twists, distortions of that word…are all self evident in the record.
2. As Mr. Becker of West Virginia pointed out, even so, that “health issue” did not preclude a regular publication of podcasts prominently feature in the “chief seats of the Temple” (to borrow from Scriptures). Nor did it preclude all of the concurrent other activities going on in the dark…like a process of orchestrated censorship of any and all references to other national candidates. That would cause Pravda in its heyday to blush at the cheekiness of it all…but “we’re different” goes the excuse’s reasoning.
3. The claim, or excuse of the “health issue”, is disingenuous prima facie because…it was done exactly like this almost a verbatim replication, in 2012; and one might even say in 2008. That is enough iterations to suggest a modus operandi. Again, to borrow from Scriptures, leopards do not change their spots. the parable of the boy crying wolf one too many times also comes to mind.
If I and the CP-Idaho staff are to be cussed for standing upon code, so be it. That guilt falls upon those who mouth it.
There is a reason why codes are set forth, and why By-Laws are adopted, and Rules for proceedings. As I have said before, the United States Constitution itself is only this. The problem comes when those things are not followed.
Any and everything can be “justified”…and that is where this nation…and the CP national organization…finds themselves today…and why.
I wish everyone involved with the so-called “brouhaha” could take a step back, take a deep breath, and see how idiotic this all looks and sounds.
Mr. Whitley of the Constitution Party of Idaho makes some very good points and a good defense of standing on principle and honoring the will of the people of Idaho, however, what is the point of having Copeland on the ballot in only one state? It doesn’t advance the things our party stands for but does effectively take the Constitution Party Presidential slate off the ballot in Idaho. The National Committee of the party is going to have to honestly address the concerns of the Idaho Party at it’s next meeting. As for the 2016 presidential election, like it or not, Darrell Castle is the Constitution Party nominee for President of the United States and as a political party on the national political battlefield, we have no choice but to stand together behind our party and our candidate.
This doesn’t mean that Mr. Whitley’s concerns should be ignored, they should not, they are serious and intelligently presented and must be addressed by the National Committee. I would suggest to Whitley that he contact the members of the National Committee with his concerns and any needed changes he may suggest to our nomination process. Changing candidates in the middle of a campaign is not possible.
Please reconsider your course of action Idaho.
For God and country,
Bob Haran,
Constitution Party National Committee,
Arizona.
Well… that’s it then!
“Until the Idaho Constitution Party chooses candidates for presidential elector, it will not have officially nominated anyone for president in the general election…”
That matter gets settled at their upcoming state convention in July. I forwarded your questions to him, Richard, and Floyd responded back.
Until the Idaho Constitution Party chooses candidates for presidential elector, it will not have officially nominated anyone for president in the general election. The electors tell the state whom they are pledged to vote for. Until the party has chosen candidates for presidential elector, it hasn’t nominated any presidential candidate.
The American Independent Party of California was the California unit of the Constitution Party 1992 through the middle of 2008. It always had a presidential primary. but there was only one name on the primary ballot 1992 thru 2004. In 2008 the party had three candidates on its presidential primary ballot: Diane Beall Templin, Mad Max Riekse, and Don Grundmann. Grundmann won that primary, but at the Constitution Party national convention, none of those three candidates even sought the nomination. The convention chose Chuck Baldwin over Alan Keyes.
This has been asked before, but elswhere: what is Copeland’s position on this develoment? His website is still online, but not updated. JR Myers has posted this outcome on his site and seems ok with it.
I guess the real question is will the Castle/Bradley campaign be able to collect the 1000 valid signatures required by Aug 24 to appear on the ballot as an independent ticket?
Is their some sort of agenda not to cover the CP outside of posts like these?
Ouch!
” He had excuses for doing so, or so it has been claimed.”
….do you mean the Cancer? Oh jesus.
Okay, I’m going to say this and I mean it as harshly as possible. Floyd–screw you. Egotistical piece of trash is just annoyed that Idaho didn’t get its way and is clearly deluded about his state party (which numbers as many registered voters as, say, the Republican Party of the small city I was born in).
If you think there were overtones of impropriety about the nomination contest, okay. You’re wrong, but you’re entitled to your stupid opinion. But suggesting someone is faking cancer or using their diagnosis and treatment of cancer as an excuse, without any evidence to speak of, is disgusting. Little cockroach. I hope your party overthrows you from the inside.