Nick Sarwark Not Seeking Re-election for LNC Chair, Fueling VP Speculation

Libertarian National Committee chairman Nick Sarwark mentioned on Twitter today that he will not seek a fourth term for chair at the 2020 Libertarian National Convention.  Sarwark was first elected to the position in 2014 and re-elected in 2016 and 2018.  Presidential candidate Adam Kokesh speculated Sarwark would soon be announced as the running mate for Congressman Justin Amash, the latest entrant into the presidential race and frontrunner for the nomination.

Kokesh posted a screenshot of Sarwark on Facebook saying he would “seriously consider” serving as Amash’s running mate.  Kokesh then wondered whether Sarwark and Amash had an agreement of making an endorsement in exchange for the vice presidential nomination.  Sarwark denied such an arrangement on Twitter and added that as chair he would not seek the vice presidential nomination.

Shortly thereafter Sarwark made the aforementioned tweet about not running again for chair.  Twice when asked what the future holds, he responded “stay tuned.”

In his next series of tweets, Sarwark gave the impression that his next role within the party would be highly visible.

104 thoughts on “Nick Sarwark Not Seeking Re-election for LNC Chair, Fueling VP Speculation

  1. dL

    If true, that crass opportunism puts the major parties to shame. Imagine Debbie Wasserman Schultz rigging the party nomination for Hillary AND then joining her on the ticket. Of course, isn’t the possibility of shenanigans like this reason why delegates have to elect the VP nominee instead of merely leaving it up to the discretion of the nominee?

  2. Bondurant

    Nick stirred the pot in Vegas when necessary. Glad to know him. Would love to see him on the LP ticket. Amash/Sarwark would be the first presidential ticket I’d vote for because I wanted to and not just to cast a protest or ballot access vote. I’d like to see a focus on ’24 but that’s not happening.

    We’ll see what happens.

  3. paulie

    Sarwark announced he won’t be seeking another term some time ago and endorsed Joe Bishop-Henchman for chair.

  4. paulie

    I have no knowledge of Nick’s level of interest in the VP nomination. He may well make a good VP candidate one day but I would not be in favor of it coming directly out of a term as sitting chair. Even if it isn’t actual corruption it certainly stinks of it. And I say that as someone who supported Nick all three times for chair.

  5. Thomas Knapp

    I don’t think Nick would RUN for the VP nomination while still chair of the LNC

    I do hope that if the LP has a convention, he will be ASKED if he would ACCEPT it, and agree to do so, and be nominated, regardless of who the presidential nominee is.

    He’s just far and away better than any of the other candidates for the vice-presidential nomination, including me.

  6. Jared

    I’m rather partial to Todd Hagopian for chair, but all I really know is that he isn’t a Rothbardian Austrobot, he isn’t going out of his away to defame everyone who has ever worked in the public sector, and he’s committed to professionalizing the party. (Not that my opinion matters.)

    I can’t see Nick Sarwark filling the VP slot, maybe because it isn’t obvious to me what he’d bring to the table in a presidential race.

  7. Thomas Knapp

    “I can’t really see Sarwark filling a VP slot, maybe because I’m not really sure what he brings to the table in a presidential race.”

    The only thing that matters: Three terms as chair, cultivating the ability to pick up the telephone and get party members to write checks.

    Nobody who’s not an obsessive LP follower is going to give a rat’s ass who the VP nominee is, unless:

    1) the presidential nominee is Amash AND

    2) he brings some other kinda sorta recognizable name with him (Jeff Flake, maybe?)

    The latter is unlikely. To the extent that the former is likely, Amash could use the help with in-party fundraising, in-party event setup, etc. Which is slightly more than the VP candidate of any party is USUALLY good for.

  8. NewFederalist

    Assuming Justin Amash actually wins the Libertarian nomination (which is by no means a given) and assuming there actually IS a physical Libertarian convention… well hell! Who knows?!?!

  9. paulie

    if the LP has a convention

    There has to be one of some sort, even if it’s moved or delayed or even if it has to be eventually moved online. For now the prevailing but unofficial sentiment I have heard is to move the dates and perhaps the place but still try to have an in person convention, probably in July and possibly in Las Vegas, or perhaps still in Austin. If circumstances still make that impossible then the online options will be more likely.

    I don’t think Nick would RUN for the VP nomination while still chair of the LNC

    I do hope that if the LP has a convention, he will be ASKED if he would ACCEPT it, and agree to do so, and be nominated, regardless of who the presidential nominee is.

    Other than for being chair right now he would make a good candidate. But back door machinations that make it appear to be a draft rather than him seeking the position don’t solve the issue some people including me would have with it. And if it really is a draft it would still look like there are back door machinations even if there aren’t. He should say no to any such draft.

  10. paulie

    Assuming Justin Amash actually wins the Libertarian nomination (which is by no means a given)

    If Sarwark’s alleged potential candidacy hinges on who’s at the top of the ticket that makes it more of an issue, not less. I do think Amash will win it if he doesn’t back out and if someone with an equal or higher media profile doesn’t also run. It would not be my vote, but I’d just be outvoted, and given my underlying health issues I’ll stay away from any physical convention this year.

    and assuming there actually IS a physical Libertarian convention

    Why would it hinge on the convention being physical?

  11. Thomas Knapp

    “Why would it hinge on the convention being physical?”

    In my opinion, a physical convention during a pandemic/panic gives at least SOME help to Hornberger and Supreme. Their camps are heavier per capita with the “rabid and obsessive” demographic who will brave COVID-19 to come support their candidate.

  12. Chris Powell

    Jared,
    Todd Hagopian was in the LNC chair race very briefly but that was some time ago. At present he is a candidate for Corporation Commissioner here in Oklahoma where it will be just him and the Republican nominee in November. If you’d like to support his campaign you may do so here: https://libertarianinchief.com/donate.html

  13. paulie

    In my opinion, a physical convention during a pandemic/panic gives at least SOME help to Hornberger and Supreme. Their camps are heavier per capita with the “rabid and obsessive” demographic who will brave COVID-19 to come support their candidate.

    Supreme’s followers are also more likely to have an issue with coming up with the time and money to go, especially given the current economic fallout. I know at least some of Hornberger’s supporters who are in that same boat. While there are ways of making going cheaper, people who haven’t been to past national conventions don’t necessarily know about those when they calculate whether they can afford it.

    While it’s true that not everyone has a good internet connection either, that’s a lot cheaper than going across the country, staying in a hotel or airbnb for several days, buying a convention package, eating out during that time, missing work and or business during that time, etc. Relatively more well off delegates might be more favorably disposed to Amash or Gray than Hornberger or Supreme compared to relatively less well off ones, on average. Although that is just a guess. And which campaigns are more likely to have the resources to help their would be delegates with those costs?

  14. Thomas Knapp

    “Supreme’s followers are also more likely to have an issue with coming up with the time and money to go, especially given the current economic fallout. I know at least some of Hornberger’s supporters who are in that same boat.”

    But that’s almost certainly less the case than in most years. Flights are cheaper. Hotels are probably going to be cheaper. Povertarians who have shit jobs that they’re laid off from may well be making more money than usual right now, AND not have to try to get off work to come. In Florida, unemployment is $600 a week ($15/hour — not a coincidence, I’m sure), and then there’s the magic “stimulus” money for people who file federal tax returns.

    Hell, if we don’t have a physical convention, I’m thinking I may be headed for Vegas just because I can go there almost as cheaply as I could stay at home. And I’m not even getting any of that magic money or unemployment benefits.

  15. paulie

    Povertarians who have shit jobs that they’re laid off from may well be making more money than usual right now, AND not have to try to get off work to come.

    Lots of different circumstances there. That’s true of some people, granted. Others may be hurt in their ground level entrepreneurship. A lot of people aren’t getting the government checks; anyone who owes money to their bank or child support, those of us who don’t use an SSN. Those who don’t have a bank account and/or did not file with IRS for 2018 or 19 may eventually get the money but not for months. Child care may be an issue; there was going to be a kids camp at the convention but it has been cancelled.

    In Florida, unemployment is $600 a week

    I think that’s federal, and they have added options for self employed people, but they probably need some kind of proof that someone was self-employed or independent contractor and not out of the labor force or working illegally. I haven’t tried to apply, as it all hinges on using an SSN, although it has in fact put me out of business. I’ve heard there have been a lot of problems with applying and many people gave up trying to get through. Maybe those have been fixed, dunno. People with no bank accounts and various other folks may still have issues getting the money.

    I’m thinking I may be headed for Vegas just because I can go there almost as cheaply as I could stay at home.

    If it’s not a health concern for you, given your flexible schedule, it may be a good time to go. I’m guess for most people, even if flights and hotels are cheaper, eating delivery food (or restaurant food if they reopen) would be more expensive than eating at home. Grocery stores are still open, at least the last time I checked. But, if you fly, you may need to get a cab or rental car to get there, and the time to shop. Maybe Clark Area Transit is still running, but that’s even more time consuming. Unless you get a kitchenette motel or airbnb where you can cook your grocery items will be limited.

    I guess it will work out better for some people than others. I’m not sure what the net effect will be.

  16. NewFederalist

    Is it certain the convention is being moved to Las Vegas? That would be EXTREMELY dangerous. We could end up being flooded with Wayne Allyn Root supporters! Oy vey!

  17. paulie

    They’ll all turn strange colors from overdosing on colloidal silver.

    More seriously, it’s not certain. Meeting on zoom at noon eastern tomorrow for LNC to consider options.

  18. Thomas Knapp

    “Is it certain the convention is being moved to Las Vegas?”

    No. It’s not certain that it’s being moved, and it’s not certain that if it IS moved it is being moved to Vegas. But moving it has been talked about, and Vegas has been a prominent feature in that talk.

    I wasn’t talking about going to Vegas because that’s where the convention might be. I was talking about going to Vegas because I haven’t been there in about 20 years and it’s probably going to be REALLY cheap for most of the rest of this year. I miss roulette at the Plaza, and the cheap food!

    My wife is on her way home from Illinois, where she went seven weeks ago to sit with her dying mother.

    There were seven passengers on the first leg of her flight (Springfield, Illinois to Dallas).

    SEVEN.

    When I was looking at flights directly from Gainesville to Austin a few months ago, it was more than $400 each way (so I picked a budget airline out of a bigger city to save money). Now it’s less than $100 each way.

    Airlines and hotels are going to be offering great deals for the next several months, trying to coax people into traveling again. Especially traveling to Las Vegas and Orlando.

    That might represent an opportunity for the LP to save some money on an alternate convention site. But even if not, it represents an opportunity for people who can’t normally afford a vacation to take one. I can’t remember the last time I took a significant “leisure” trip that wasn’t actually an LP-related business trip, or a trip to visit my elderly parents or attend a family funeral. So I’m gonna be looking for opportunities to do that if we don’t have a convention.

    Paulie, you did mention the risks of travel for people with co-morbidities. I sympathize — I’ve got at least two COVID co-morbidities, hyper-tension and diabetes, and I only quit smoking a couple of months ago, so I am probably at risk. I don’t blame you for not wanting to travel. My own attitude is that I’ve gotta die some time and of something, and that traveling to spend time with what amounts to my second family (libertarians) is worth the risk.

  19. NewFederalist

    Bylaws aside… I think the convention should be virtual and delegates should be all members in good standing of both the national party AND the state from which they wish to be a delegate. Double, triple, quintuple whatever the number of delegates and make this akin to Perot’s convention of 1996. It would be fun; it would attract media attention and best yet NO ONE can predict the outcome.

  20. paulie

    Oliver Hall oliverbhall at gmail.com
    Fri May 1 19:17:20 EDT 2020

    Previous message (by thread): [Lnc-business] Fwd: LPCA Resolution
    Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

    Greetings,

    In anticipation of the LNC meeting tomorrow, I am sending a summary of
    options that may be considered with respect to holding the 2020 national
    convention. I am not recommending any particular alternative. My
    intention is only to address the legal issues that each alternative may
    raise.

    1. *_Hold the convention in-person as scheduled:_*

    This option would violate Governor Abbott’s Executive Order (“EO”)
    GA-18, issued on April 27, 2020, which provides that “every person in
    Texas shall, except where necessary to provide or obtain essential
    services or reopened services, minimize social gatherings and minimize
    in-person contact with people who are not in the same househould.” EO
    GA-18 expires on May 15, 2020, “unless it is modified, amended,
    rescinded or superseded by the governor.”

    EO GA-18 (or some similar order) may be in effect on the scheduled
    convention date, making it impossible to proceed. Additionally, the
    Marriott has canceled attendees’ reservations and it appears unlikely
    that the Marriott is able or willing to perform under the current terms
    of our contract (including present dates of the convention). _
    _

    2. _*Reschedule the convention for a later date:*_

    Article 10(1) of the Bylaws provides that “the Party shall hold a
    Regular Convention every two years, at a time and place selected by the
    National Committee.” Therefore, the LNC has the authority to take
    appropriate action to select a new time and place for the 2020 national
    convention.

    If the LNC took such action, there is no way to know now whether it will
    be possible to hold the convention at the new time and place selected.
    In Texas, EO GA-18 may be extended, or a new Executive Order may be
    entered, which could make it unlawful to hold the convention at the new
    time and place selected. The same is true in many if not all other states.

    Additionally, this alternative may impact the Party’s ability to comply
    with ballot access deadlines and other requirements in various states.
    The Party might obtain relief from those requirements through
    litigation, but that is not guaranteed, even under the extraordinary
    circumstances presented by the COVID-19 pandemic.

    3. _*Schedule an electronic convention*_*:*

    In my opinion, the LNC has authority under the Bylaws to hold an
    electronic convention, but it is a disfavored alternative that should be
    adopted — if at all — only under emergency circumstances that make an
    in-person convention impossible or impracticable.

    The only provision of the Bylaws that expressly addresses the manner in
    which a convention must be held is Article 10(1) quoted above. That
    provision grants the LNC authority to hold a convention “at a time and
    place selected by the National Committee.” Additionally, Article 7(1)
    provides that the LNC “shall have control and management of all the
    affairs, properties and funds of the Party consistent with these
    Bylaws.” Because Article 10(1) does not prohibit an electronic
    convention or otherwise limit the LNC’s authority to set the time and
    place of the convention, I conclude that an electronic convention is not
    inconsistent with the Bylaws, at least under the emergency circumstances
    presented here.

    I recognize that Article 12 of the Bylaws expressly authorizes boards
    and committees to hold meetings by teleconference or videoconference,
    and that Article 12 is silent with respect to conventions. Additionally,
    one of the “Principles of Interpretation” set forth in Roberts Rules of
    Order, Newly Revised (11th Edition) (“RRONR”) (at pp. 589-90) is that
    “If the bylaws authorize certain things specifically, other things of
    the same class are thereby prohibited.” Further, Article 16 of the
    Bylaws provides that “The rules contained in Roberts Rules of Order,
    Newly Revised shall govern the Party in all cases to which they are
    applicable…”

    The preferred interpretation of Article 12 of the Bylaws, therefore, is
    that it authorizes electronic meetings of boards and committees, and
    thus it generally should be construed not to authorize electronic
    conventions. A “Principle of Interpretation” is not a rule, however, and
    it is not inviolate. Principles that generally apply may not apply in
    unusual or unforeseen circumstances such as the LNC is now facing. (/See
    also/ “Parliamentary Law,” Question 107, p. 452, available at
    https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.35112104592482&view=1up&seq=498)
    (explaining that where a bylaw provision is “impracticable to carry out,
    the only thing that can be done is to change that provision to a
    reasonable one, complying, in making the change, with the spirit of the
    existing by-laws as nearly as possible.”) Furthermore, another
    “Principle of Interpretation” in RRONR is that, where a Bylaw contains
    an ambiguity, “Each society decides for itself the meaning of its
    bylaws.” (/See /pp. 588-89.)

    Because the LNC Bylaws do not appear to have anticipated a global
    pandemic, strictly construing them to prohibit an electronic convention
    under these emergency circumstances, where the Bylaws do not expressly
    prohibit an electronic convention, is unwarranted in my opinion. An
    electronic convention is clearly sub-optimal from a parliamentary
    perspective, however, and it should be disfavored unless and until the
    Bylaws are amended to include an express authorization for an electronic
    convention. Furthermore, in the event that the LNC pursues this
    alternative, it may be wise to adopt a resolution recognizing that an
    electronic convention is disfavored and should not be considered unless
    emergency circumstances make an in-person convention impossible or
    impracticable.

    4. _*Amend the bylaws to include an express authorization for an
    electronic convention:*_

    Article 17 of the Bylaws provides that they may be amended only by a 2/3
    vote of the delegates at any Regular Convention. Therefore, this does
    not appear to be a viable alternative.

    5. _*Amend the articles of incorporation to authorize an electronic
    convention.*_

    Mr. Bishop-Henchman proposed this alternative. I believe it is a legally
    valid option for the reasons he stated. Although the manner of holding a
    convention is typically a matter to be addressed in the Bylaws, there is
    no reason the Articles of Incorporation cannot be amended to allow for
    an electronic convention.

    I hope the foregoing analysis is helpful as the LNC considers the best
    course of action to address the challenging circumstances we are facing.
    I will be on the call tomorrow in case I am needed.

    Thank you,

    Oliver Hall
    /Special Counsel
    /Libertarian National Committee
    202-280-0898

  21. paulie

    Nicholas Sarwark chair at lp.org
    Thu Apr 30 20:42:51 EDT 2020

    Previous message (by thread): [Lnc-business] General thoughts on this whole convention issue
    Next message (by thread): [Lnc-business] Issues to inform our discussion regarding the convention
    Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

    Dear All,

    Let me start by thanking everyone who has worked so hard to plan our
    convention in Austin as well as those who have spent a great deal of time
    and energy coming up with alternatives and contingency plans and
    researching our options for how to proceed in the current situation. We
    will have an open and transparent meeting on Saturday where everyone will
    be heard and our national committee will make some difficult decisions.

    Before the meeting begins, I wanted to raise some issues that I have been
    thinking about so that the other members of the committee also have time to
    think about them in advance of our meeting.

    The legal and practical restrictions on travel during the COVID-19 crisis
    make it more difficult for some portion of our delegates to attend an
    in-person convention. This difficulty is different from the normal time,
    money, and effort needed to attend an in-person convention, in that
    delegates from certain areas of the country have restrictions placed on
    their travel into Texas than delegates from other areas of the country due
    to infection outbreaks that are completely outside their control.
    Additionally, delegates who have either personal or family health concerns
    would be required to take risks to participate meaningfully in an in-person
    convention that are above and beyond the normal requirements to
    participate. To analogize, the Libertarian position is that anyone should
    be allowed to choose to shoot heroin or ride a motorcycle without a helmet,
    but it would be a different thing entirely to require someone to do those
    things in order to have a voice in the organization.

    Before we get to the question of what is possible under the bylaws, the
    question of whether the members of the committee want to allow credentialed
    delegates to participate in our convention without being physically present
    needs to be answered. I understand that different members of the committee
    may have different opinions on this underlying question, but bringing that
    conflict out into the open should probably be done prior to dealing with
    the specific questions of if and how it could be done according to the
    rules and bylaws. I know there are members of the committee who absolutely
    support to participation of delegates remotely and members who absolutely
    oppose it, and that has an impact on what options they are willing to
    consider. A full discussion of those positions and the reasons behind them
    may help us make better decisions.

    Another consideration that needs to be discussed is whether the nomination
    of a Presidential candidate and the ability to obtain ballot access,
    campaign, and raise money is more or less important than having an
    in-person convention and any media coverage that may take place at that
    convention. The first week in July is roughly six weeks after Memorial Day
    and the cost of extending the nomination contest for six weeks will be paid
    by the eventual nominee and the LNC in ballot access and campaigning time.
    Whether that cost is worth it is a discussion for this committee, but we
    should recognize that the cost exists.

    The last thing to consider is that we as members of the board have duties
    to obey the bylaws and rules as well as fiduciary duties to act in the best
    interest of the goals and finances of the organization. If and when those
    duties conflict, each member will have to carefully consider which is more
    important and that judgment is personal to each member. A member may decide
    that following the letter of the rules is more important than imposing
    increased risk of loss on the Libertarian Party, or vice versa. The
    delegates who elect the next LNC will determine whether the judgment each
    member comes to is the right one, but there is no clear answer that a
    member could look up in a rule or law book.

    Protecting the rights of all of our delegates to meaningfully participate
    and determine the leadership of the party and the standard bearers for the
    election are my paramount considerations. There are options that would
    privilege one group of members over another and other options that maintain
    a level playing field. My inclination is to support the latter over the
    former, but I will carefully listen to all of the discussion at our meeting
    on Saturday.

    Thank you all for your service, it has been an honor to be your Chair over
    this last term and there is no better group to face these challenges with.

    Yours in liberty,
    Nick

  22. ATBAFT

    Well, maybe this constitutes one more reason to hold nominating conventions in the Fall of the previous year? More time to re-schedule if necessary (e.g. hotel has devastating fire) and some might like the fact it would keep “late comers” out of the presidential race. Nominee would be able to attend virtually all state conventions as “The Nominee,” perhaps getting some local publicity, but certainly being able to put together a campaign team in each state that would have a year for ballot access and organizing for those eight weeks before the election when the LP candidate may actually matter.

  23. Thomas Knapp

    “Well, maybe this constitutes one more reason to hold nominating conventions in the Fall of the previous year?”

    Yep.

    And a good reason to get some bylaws language written providing for:

    1) If, when, and how the LNC may alter a convention time or place once it has set the time and place; and

    2) If, when, and how a convention may be conducted over electronic communications rather than in person.

    That latter being a bit of a hobbyhorse of mine. It’s been 16 years since the first online national convention of a political party, and every suggestion that the LP start considering entering the 21st century since then has been met with snotty “our 19th century parliamentary authority discourages electronic conventions so we’re just not gonna even think about it” responses. Now all of a sudden it’s a priority.

  24. Thomas Knapp

    The counsel’s opinion is unsurprising. For as long as I’ve been a member, it’s been pretty much understood that the job of any attorney retained by the LNC is to tell them they can do anything they want, or better yet to anticipate what they want to do and insist that that’s obviously and indubitably the only thing they’re allowed to do.

  25. dL

    that the LP start considering entering the 21st century

    which part of the 21st century? the tech to pull off a virtual parliamentary convention to accommodate a large number of interactive participants in a secure manner has not exactly been lying around off the shelf. I would think you would need more than zoom to logistically pull it off.

  26. Thomas Knapp

    “I would think you would need more than zoom to logistically pull it off.”

    Yes, you’d ABSOLUTELY need more than Zoom to pull it off well. The LP’s delegate numbers are a stretch for Zoom even for just a bare bones meeting, let alone an event that needs trustworthy credentialing and voting functions.

    Instead of spending the last 14 years working on how to do it well — bylaws hooks, tech procurement/development, etc. — after the Boston Tea Party proved it could be done at all, the LP has been stridently DO NOT WANT until a few weeks ago, and now all of a sudden it’s “throw something together ASAP and hope it doesn’t disintegrate into a train wreck of epic fucking proportions.”

  27. paulie

    Well, maybe this constitutes one more reason to hold nominating conventions in the Fall of the previous year? More time to re-schedule if necessary (e.g. hotel has devastating fire) and some might like the fact it would keep “late comers” out of the presidential race. Nominee would be able to attend virtually all state conventions as “The Nominee,” perhaps getting some local publicity, but certainly being able to put together a campaign team in each state that would have a year for ballot access and organizing for those eight weeks before the election when the LP candidate may actually matter.

    Absolutely! I don’t know why this idea has been such a non-starter every time I brought it up with LNC and associated folks.

  28. paulie

    It’s been 16 years since the first online national convention of a political party

    If you count conference calls it has not been. Prohibition Party, for example. Constitution Party is going virtual this year; I think it may have already happened, but I’ll need to double check. Greens will be as well, but not yet. Democrats are at least talking about. As far as I know the Republicans are not.

  29. Thomas Knapp

    “It’s been 16 years since the first online national convention of a political party”

    “If you count conference calls it has not been”

    What, are conference calls time machines or something?

  30. paulie

    The counsel’s opinion is unsurprising. For as long as I’ve been a member, it’s been pretty much understood that the job of any attorney retained by the LNC is to tell them they can do anything they want, or better yet to anticipate what they want to do and insist that that’s obviously and indubitably the only thing they’re allowed to do.

    Maybe there’s a silent majority who want an electronic convention. We’ll see in a couple of hours. The people who have been speaking up have generally been against it.

  31. Thomas Knapp

    “I’m not sure what technology some of the other parties that did not meet in person used.”

    You also seem confused by what “it’s been 16 years since …” and “online” mean.

  32. paulie

    No, neither of those. I mean I don’t know if some of them used phone or computer, but there have been virtual conventions this year and will be more.

  33. Anthony Dlugos

    paulie,

    It seems odd that Rep. Amash doesn’t already have his own running mate picked.

  34. paulie

    He may or may not. He probably wants to announce himself first, before his preferred running mate, if he has one. Or maybe he’s in negotiations on that. Or maybe doesn’t have one yet, or at all.

  35. Anthony Dlugos

    I guess all that is possible. Then again, I would find even his “soft” announcement perplexing if he didn’t have a running mate already selected, and some level of funding by heavyweights already in the bag. He can’t back out now without looking a little silly.

    What’s perplexing to me is the possibility that this speculation is true.

  36. paulie

    To my knowledge Biden doesn’t have his running mate selected yet either. I’m not aware that Blankenship or Hawkins do either. We’ve had past presidential nominees who had no VP preference or didn’t make theirs until the convention. Barr’s deal with Root was made at the convention; he tried for Ruwart and she turned him down.

  37. robert capozzi

    AD,

    He addresses the question of VP here:
    https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/justin-amash-on-running-for-president-the-libertarian-party-and-his-next-decade/

    Here’s my list: Cuban, Chaffee, Flake, Mia Love, Tim Penny, Sanford, Fiorina, Massie, Miron

    VP is the supporting role, the one that makes the candidate more or less credible. “Purists” will scoff at this list, although leading purists have told me they’d be OK with Flake and Massie, which is a pleasant surprise.

    If well-executed, I do believe Amash to get into the Perot 92 zone. Achieve that, and ANYTHING is possible.

    Sarwark’s talented, but not as a running mate this year. He might have to do, but then we’re only talking 10% at best.

  38. Anthony Dlugos

    Don’t know if the Biden analogy is apt.

    Biden has multiple potential candidates, all qualified resume-wise and in the eyes of the public.

    Also, the calculations for a major party run and a third party run are not the same.

    Most importantly is the fact that the Democratic Party understand the choice is up to Biden and the party is just going to rubber-stamp it. The L.P. delegates have the comically delusional idea that it should be up to them. Made even more comical by our paucity of success in winning electoral contests. I’m sure Rep. Amash is aware we had a guy strip naked on the stage in 2016, and we got a guy with a boot on his head running for president this year.

    Point is, if I’m Amash I’m not getting anywhere near our Convention without a V.P. nominee already chosen and delivered in a take-it-or-leave-it fashion to the delegates.

  39. robert capozzi

    My ONLY pause about Amash is that he has a portrait of Rothbard on his office wall! 😉

    He’s REALLY impressive….

  40. robert capozzi

    AD,

    He SORTA said he won’t go take-it-or-leave-it, but I think he should.

  41. Anthony Dlugos

    Love would make some sense from a p.r. point of view. However, she opposes abortion.

    Chafee would be a good ideological balance.

    If I were him, I’d be looking for a pro-choice Democrat.

    And yes, the Rothbard portrait is a problem, as is his vote on that anti-lynching bill.

  42. Anthony Dlugos

    RC,

    He said he won’t go “take it or leave it” publicly? I imagine he has to.

    In reality, he can’t be dumb enough to think otherwise.

  43. Anthony Dlugos

    The bigger problem I have than the Rothbard portrait is his terrible stance on reproductive rights.

  44. robert capozzi

    AD,

    Yes, Chaffee is probably the safe bet. I agree, I like that balance on that issue. JA is downplaying abortion, per the TLR interview.

    I’d given up on this site due to its glitchiness, but it seems better now.

    I couldn’t get on the LNC Zoom, so here I am.

    I suspect the LNC makes the picks, TK’s view…

  45. paulie

    The L.P. delegates have the comically delusional idea that it should be up to them.

    It actually is, and should continue to be.

  46. robert capozzi

    AD,

    Scary how much we think alike! He absolutely should dictate his choice, but in the nicest way possible.

    I’m not crazy about Massie, but consider this: He switches affiliation first to L. Then we have 2 L congresscritters. Even the most ardent NAP Fundamentalists might swallow that.

  47. Anthony Dlugos

    RC,

    He’s downplaying abortion but I quickly scanned the article you posted, and he said he’s been “pro-life his whole life.” He said he is only against federal funding of abortion, but no one has yet point-blank asked him about whether or not he would nominate judges in favor of Roe.

    Given the tenuousness of reproductive rights in this country at this time, and just leaving aside at this time the philosophical problems I have with the anti-abortion position coming from a Libertarian, a candidate calling himself pro-life strikes me as a killer for anyone with any level of concern for reproductive rights.

    Right now, the best I can say is that I’d probably vote for him, just because he is otherwise excellent. I doubt I’d give him a dime, however. Not unless he said he would nominate pro-Roe judges.

  48. robert capozzi

    AD,

    It’s ALL PR, by the way. That’s all the VP is, anyway. They attack, fill holes, and round out the ticket’s look.

    JA has certainly checked enough boxes for the Fundies. The only resistance is coming from the Roberts Rules Institutionalists. Even TK has said he’s OK with JA.

  49. Anthony Dlugos

    I’m just surprised he’s even contemplating this.

    It seems like an awful situation for a third-party run, given COVID.

    I mean, it doesn’t appear like anything approaching regular campaigning is gonna be possible. I have to think funding is gonna dry up big-time because of the economic shutdown, the LP may not even get to 50-state ballot access. I’m with what Gillespie said on the Reason podcast: the situation augurs for everyone to lock in place as for or against Trump.

    Just thinking out loud, I would have told him to just play out the string on the House seat, “retire,” head over to Faux News for a few years, and re-enter the Republican Party after the Trump fever fades. The guy might be old news by January if he loses to Biden.

  50. Anthony Dlugos

    paulie,

    The V.P. slot is up to the Democratic delegates, too, ultimately.

    But like I said, their delegates are sensible enough to know to rubber-stamp the presidential candidate’s choice, as they have to work together once in office.

  51. robert capozzi

    AD,

    Hear ya. I’ve donated.

    Watching this guy’s moves, my suspicion is he’ll say he would consider their legal theory in toto and temperment.

    I don’t see abortion rights as in dire jeopardy as you do, although it IS in some states. Then again, I think Roe was TERRIBLE jurisprudence, even though I agree with it. Probably should be left to the states is my current stance, but it’s just not a hill I care to die on, one way or another…

  52. robert capozzi

    AD,

    Actually, COULD be that COVID levels the playing field. Campaigning goes to the Web. Trump can’t have rallies for at least a while.

  53. Anthony Dlugos

    RC,

    Even your theorized Amash position on judicial nominations…given that he has doubled down on his pro-life stance…would seem to put him off-limits to any democrats or democratic-leaners.

    I probably agree with you on how safe reproductive rights are at the federal level…and that they are in serious jeopardy in some states. That’s what I THINK however. We may be wrong, and its funny how such a dire situation is trivialized by many Libertarians.

    We know damn well that if 2A rights were in similar jeopardy in some states, nominating a presidential candidate who is personally opposed to gun ownership and splits hairs on gun control would be absolutely off-limits to the LP.

    All that being said, I’ll repeat myself again: Amash is otherwise EXCELLENT.

  54. Anthony Dlugos

    RC,

    A couple pf the commentators on the Reason podcast made your argument that COVID levels the playing field. I just tend to side with Gillespie that it’ll lock everyone’s choice into for or against Trump, and that its gonna be a bad year for 3rd parties.

    I’ll also concede that Amash may be making the calculation that he is going to appeal to the millions of voters and potential voters who just don’t care that much about abortion. They are out there, no doubt.

  55. robert capozzi

    AD,

    The overarching issue — which JA deftly landed on — is the main reason to vote for him is that his competition is completely unfit. I’d agree with NG if this were not the case. (The Reason Roundtable is SO fucking good, mostly because they validate my opinions. Even when they disagree with it, it’s great to hear Ls talk about things without implicit or explicit reference to the NAP.)

    Now, the wildcard here is whether the Ds can replace Biden. That could present a problem. If they slide in Cuomo or Warren, my take might change.

  56. Anthony Dlugos

    RC,

    I agree on the Roundtable. And NG is regularly very funny.

    Also agree on the LP prospects dimming if the Dems figure out a way to replace Biden with Cuomo or even Gavin N out of California.

    I hear ya on what JA’s basic message will be. Its not the worst strategy in the world, given the dinosaur party candidates. The idea that he might appeal to people just looking for a sane candidate is compelling.

    On the other hand, I think the Democrats and the left-leaning media have multiple openings to portray him as a disaffected conservative (e.g., the Rothbard portrait) and make it stick. Being in favor of the Trump impeachment is just not going to be enough to shake that narrative. They’ll just portray him as part of the Never-Trump Republicans.

    Given his disposition, he’s gonna have to bend over backwards to prove he isn’t just a disaffected conservative. That’s one reason I suggested he looks for a pro-choice ex-democrat running mate. He needs to do some outside-the-conservative-box thinking on policy.

    The first rule I’d give him is that he is not to even mention the word Constitution in his stump speeches.

  57. robert capozzi

    If the LNC doesn’t nominate Amash, I hope the ticket is Supreme/Exotic

  58. robert capozzi

    AD,

    Hear ya on the Constitution, but you may be overthinking it. Centrists and D-leaners like the “Constitution,” too, and they may not be aware of the “Constitutional conservative” thing, and its paleo implications.

  59. Anthony Dlugos

    RC,

    well, let me call the “no mention of the word Constitution” thing more of a starting point for messaging, speechwriting and policy positions, rather than a rule.

    while I’m at it, he should instruct his speechwriters, if he has any, to also not use the words.

    smaller
    limited
    conservaitve
    tradition

    maybe I’ll think of some others.

    But don’t write off my position as flippant, I implore you. The campaign for president of the US is the crucible of political messaging, par excellence. He’ll get boxed into a corner as a disaffected conservative before he even realizes it. He should come out of the box right away disavowing that label with alacrity.

    For example, come out in favor of Roe instead of boring everyone with being another pro-life conservative.

  60. robert capozzi

    AD,

    Oh, I’m all about getting the messaging right. Most of his interviews so far have been steering away from that paleo vibe of RP1.

    Actually, my biggest concern is he prone to TMI when he starts talking process. It’s great for him to slam how the sausage factory really works…good stuff…but he needs to make the point and move on.

    And the painting in his home studio has GOT to go.

    Don’t hold your breath on Roe…

  61. Anthony Dlugos

    oh, I wouldn’t hold my breath on Roe. Just a suggestion for something bold enough to get everyone’s attention. I don’t know if “steering away from” is enough.

    You know the old saw…the guy who has to answer, “Do you hit your wife?” has already lost the battle.

    And I agree on the TMI with regard to the process. He’s speaking like someone predisposed to a congressional mentality.

    That’s part of my point: he’s not going to make a splash if he just comes off as a conservative upset with partisanship and the legislative process breaking down. He’s running for an executive position.

    Time to be bold.

  62. Thomas Knapp

    “I mean I don’t know if some of them used phone or computer, but there have been virtual conventions this year and will be more.”

    And the number of virtual conventions this year has no bearing whatsoever on how long it’s been since the first one. The first one was in 2006 if there are no virtual conventions this year, and the first one was in 2006 if there are a hundred virtual conventions this year.

  63. Paulie

    I didn’t say anything about earlier ones. Only addressed what I thought you said about none since. Maybe I misunderstood that part.

  64. Thomas Knapp

    “Maybe I misunderstood that part.”

    Maybe so. Or maybe I didn’t communicate well. Here’s what I meant:

    1) The first online national political party convention was in 2006;

    2) Since then, the response of the Libertarian Party (I intended to say nothing about any other party) to proposals to utilize modern technology in its conventions in any way, shape, manner, or form has been DO NOT WANT — until a few weeks ago when that response gained a sudden and significant element of NOW NOW NOW.

    And that’s not a good thing. Moving a convention of this size online is not something you just wing on a few weeks notice. At least not if you expect it to go well.

    Hopefully the people who will have to make it happen have already been busting their asses for a couple of months so that MAYBE the party can pull such a thing off if, as seems at least somewhat likely, the postponed physical convention doesn’t happen either.

  65. paulie

    I don’t get the sense that is happening nearly to the extent it should. And I agree, it would have been good had there been much more preparation over the course of those years.

  66. robert capozzi

    AD,

    Right. Now going after TRIBALISM seems the more useful tack. Now that, I submit, could have great popular appeal in the center.

    GJ/WW was sorta doing that with the 6-lane highway metaphor. Didn’t find it compelling, but directionally correct.

  67. dL

    DO NOT WANT — until a few weeks ago when that response gained a sudden and significant element of NOW NOW NOW.

    um, well, its like that in business, too. “Virtual” is suddenly the hottest new thing…the sudden indispensable thing

    The first online national political party convention was in 2006;

    What exactly did that entail? I don’t equate “online” with virtual. Everyone has had an online presence since the late 1990s. Virtual–at least in business– these days pertains to the not so low hanging fruit sales channels that have traditionally relied on foot traffic.

  68. Thomas Knapp

    dL:

    The 2006 organizational convention of the Boston Tea Party entailed the adoption of bylaws and a program, as well as the election of national committee officers and members (the party’s second convention, in 2008, also nominated a presidential ticket).

    I don’t remember the details of how we handled credentialing, but there were about 40 delegates and everything was done using various aspects of the Drupal CMS (including a polling module — very insecure). Debates, nominations, etc. were handled in text forums.

    There are at least a couple of articles out there on the web about how we did it all. I wrote one of them.

    To be honest, the only thing about it that’s brag-worthy is that we were the first to attempt it (so far as I could then, and can now, tell). There was something called the “Disability Party” that was supposedly going to have a 2004 national convention by telephone conference call, the only item of business being to nominate its founder (and possibly its only member) for president, but so far as I can tell it never actually happened.

  69. William Saturn Post author

    The BTP had the potential to be something meaningful. It probably would’ve survived if Knapp ran as its nominee in 2012 instead of going through that weird period where he rejected all elections or something like that. It also could’ve had a better name like the proposed “Lexington Green” or “Philadelphia Freedom.”

  70. dL

    including a polling module — very insecure

    yeah, and even though we’ve pooh-pooh’ed the Putin Svengali bullshit, an insecure virtual convention would be wide open for tampering by pretty much anyone. And three months ago, everyone wanted to retreat back to paper balloting over electronic voting b/c no one trusted the establishment overlords. 3 months ago, pimping a virtual political convention would have gotten you labeled some combination of a Putin, Koch, Bloomberg stooge(i.e, a democracy hacker).

  71. dL

    I’m sure Rep. Amash is aware we had a guy strip naked on the stage in 2016, and we got a guy with a boot on his head running for president this year.

    Vermin and James Weeks would wipe the stage with Justin Amash in a libertarian debate. And neither had the lapse in judgement to get caught up in a klan rally(Tea Party). And, frankly, it’s unclear whether Amash actually has any more money than those two. Just another broke shiny badge propped up by Reason hype that is going bang heads up against the margin of error wall. 4th time and counting…rinse and repeat

  72. Krzysztof Lesiak

    Thomas Knapp wrote:

    “and I only quit smoking a couple of months ago,”

    Nice. Keep up the good work. That’s a major accomplishment. I’m on my circa 20th attempt to quit now and I know hard it is. IMO it’s better to stick to the “devil’s lettuce.”

    Anyway, if Amash wins, Kokesh or Vohra for VP.

  73. Anthony Dlugos

    “Vermin and James Weeks would wipe the stage with Justin Amash in a libertarian debate.”

    In a room full of Libertarian Party members/delegates, as adjudged by the members/delegates themselves?

    It’s possible. What’s even more possible to the point of being likely is that someone on the stage would do/say something catastrophically self-destructive, or the resulting vote would be close enough to demonstrate just how many unhinged dogmatic wingnuts are in the party, such that a professional, reasonable candidate like Rep. Amash has to seriously contemplate how to avoid such events, lest his own reputation get damaged.

    I’ve wondered if one of the reasons Amash waited so long to announce is that he waited until the point where he became confident there wouldn’t be a in-person convention so he could avoid the self/destructive. My advice to him when he started mulling a run would have been to absolutely avoid any contact with party members…especially in groups…as much as possible. And that’s not because of the Covid virus, it’s because of the self-involved batsh*t crazy virus that’s been circulating in the party for decades.

    Because the reality is, the ONLY place in the known universe, from the initial singularity to its eventual heat death, where Weeks or Vermin could beat Amash in a debate is in a room full of Libertarians. Thus, the first rule of anyone qualified is to avoid us as much possible.

    Is Amash broke? Maybe. I’m quite sure Vermin and Meeks are. Is there any anarchists in the country who aren’t?

    In any event, I share some of the Radical Distress at the prospect of running yet another conservative ex-republican. I just wish they realized it’s their dogma that’s drawing them in.

  74. dL

    What’s even more possible to the point of being likely is that someone on the stage would do/say something catastrophically self-destructive

    Wrong debate. I believe you are thinking of the Trump-Biden debate.

    Because the reality is, the ONLY place in the known universe, from the initial singularity to its eventual heat death, where Weeks or Vermin could beat Amash in a debate is in a room full of Libertarians.

    No, they would also win in a room full of democrats, socialists, open border enthusiasts, pro-choice women, college students, unionized workers, etc. Now, they would lose in a room full of republicans. I’ll grant you that.

    Is Amash broke? Maybe.

    Well, he is broke, relatively speaking. If he wasn’t, he would be full steam ahead with his independent run for congressional re-election. As it stands, he didn’t have enough money to make that race competitive. He was a goner either way, but now he can try to play spoiler.

  75. Anthony Dlugos

    “Wrong debate. I believe you are thinking of the Trump-Biden debate.”

    The number of voters who think the typical Trump or Biden gaffes raise to the level of getting naked on stage or wearing footwear on the head is zero. Hell, Weeks and Boot on Head are both beyond the pale even for the Libertarian Party, let alone the general public.

    “No, they would also win in a room full of democrats, socialists, open border enthusiasts, pro-choice women, college students, unionized workers, etc.”

    Wrong. 100% wrong. Fatuously wrong. Naked people and people who wear footwear on their head don’t ever get in front of such groups, because such groups are actually interested in winning elections and moving public policy in their direction, not self-involved stunts.

    They wouldn’t beat Amash in a room full of any of those groups. not one of them, if an actual competitive election between them and Amash actually occurred, which ITSELF wouldn’t occur outside of a room full of Libertarians.

    In any of those groups where Amash wouldn’t beat Boot on Head/Naked Guy right now, Amash could ensure victory just by altering his position a little, since he’s a reasonable, professional politician with a c.v. to speak of.

    But again, the reality is the hypothetical matchup of Boot On Head vs Amash or Naked Guy vs. Amash would happen nowhere outside the Libertarian universe. THAT is the problem.

    I’m okay with him playing spoiler.

  76. robert capozzi

    AD,

    That’s the thing with people coming from alternative universes — there’s really no way to have a reasonable dialog.

  77. Thomas Knapp

    I’m glad Anthony Dlugos is still around, and still willing to flagrantly display his complete and abject ignorance of realpolitik. Watching him work is the political equivalent of a drag show — such an over the top and unbelievable fantasy that it creates a weird beauty of its own kind. Very nice to have around in a year like this.

  78. Anthony Dlugos

    RC,

    Indeed.

    I must tell you that I have a hard time believing they actually believe the implications of their arguments.

    On the other hand, if they honestly believe the only way to get a pro-choice, free-immigration, pro-union rights Libertarian elected is to get him naked or put a boot on his head?

    Well, then, they marginalize themselves.

  79. robert capozzi

    AD,

    Ya know, I’m torn on that one. They may actually believe what they do, and yet they seem to also know that what they believe is unworkable. Difficult to stay in such a place.

  80. dL

    Watching him work is the political equivalent of a drag show

    nah, I worked those. Dlugos ain’t nothin like the intentional camp of a performance art queen. More like Beavis and Butthead…without the drugs

  81. Anthony Dlugos

    let me get this straight…you hold in higher esteem a guy who’s election strategy was to get naked on stage, and a guy with footwear on his head and policy positions including “zombie power” and “free ponies,” over an elected member of the House of Representatives with a J.D. from the University of Michigan, some of the most eloquent defenses of limited government to appear on twitter, with references to Hayek and Bastiat…and you’re calling me Beavis and Butthead?

    seriously, dL, you’re headed for a psychotic break being so out of touch with reality.

  82. Anthony Dlugos

    RC,

    Roger that.

    I think they get just enough reinforcement from within the LP and libertarian circles…just enough…to shoo away their misgivings about their constructs being unworkable, and they mush on.

    But its always there, in the background.

    Hence, the hostility.

    Then again, I know of Libertarians in my state…and others…who are ABSOLUTELY convinced that nominating Vermin would be a good idea. I sense no reservations in their disposition. Their arguments that Vermin would attract the right kind of attention are void of any cognitive dissonance. Its truly astounding and disturbing at the same time.

  83. robert capozzi

    AD,

    Actually, if it ain’t Amash, I’ve been calling for a ticket of Supreme/Exotic.

    It would be hilarious, and possibly destroy the LP and its Stalinist Bylaws. Maybe a lessarchist party could take its place. I’ve dipped in to a few of the online debates, and, honestly, the Kool Aid ladles must have been working overtime.

  84. Anthony Dlugos

    RC,

    I get the sentiment, re: vermin. I still argue that the LP is salvageable Thus, my personal predilection at this point is Hornberger if Amash fails, if only because he’s bookishly boring, will do the least amount of damage and will be quickly forgotten.

    Your explicit goal with Vermin/Exotic is farce in order to bring about change to a lessarchist (maybe new) party. The Vermin supporters I’ve come in contact with are deadly serious.

    Haven’t bothered watching the debates, because I feared to hear what you are reporting. I spent the last year or so going to some Democratic Party meetings, hanging with Democrats, and one of the things that became crystal clear is just how far off from legitimate policy debate we are.

    To wit, I went from one Democratic Party meeting late last year that discussed the future of NATO (this was after the French president called it brain dead because of the U.S. commitment to it fading) to a Libertarian Party meeting that devolved into whether or not Americans should be allowed to own rocket launchers.

    yep, we’re way off.

  85. dL

    some of the most eloquent defenses of limited government to appear on twitter, with references to Hayek and Bastiat…and you’re calling me Beavis and Butthead?

    yeah, dlugos, I looked you up on twitter.
    https://twitter.com/Anthony_Dlugos/status/1255327741202829312

    I sure hope you’ve(Amash) had a come to Jesus moment on reproductive rights. This is one delegate you will not get a vote or dollar from otherwise.

    Well, so much for the most eloquent defender of limited government on Twitter!

    More:
    https://twitter.com/Anthony_Dlugos/status/1255331281078038533

    You have an ex-Republican who was for impeachment. That’s not going to draw in Democrats. They already have a guy who was for impeachment. If I’m Biden, I’m doing cartwheels.

    So, Amash has no hope with attracting democrats. A Biden stooge. Hell, even I wouldn’t go that far.

    seriously, dL, you’re headed for a psychotic break being so out of touch with reality.

    oh, I pay my bills on time. I wonder if you are as much of a flake in real life that you are on a message board…

  86. robert capozzi

    AD: … whether or not Americans should be allowed to own rocket launchers.

    Me: Hmm, that’s actually progress. Their internal talk has ratcheted down to rocket launchers from private nukes. 😉

  87. Thomas Knapp

    If there was an argument at a Libertarian Party meeting about whether Americans should be “allowed” to own rocket launchers, then it means there was a particularly silly Democrat or Republican present. Libertarians aren’t dumb enough to argue about whether common household items that can be bought at almost any department store should be “allowed.”

  88. Anthony Dlugos

    What’s the problem here?

    I hope Amash relaxes his current position on reproductive rights. Ron Paul did in 1988 in the lead up to the convention.

    Still doesn’t change what I said about his defense of limited government. He’s wrong on one issue. Not an unusual situation.

    Never said Amash was a Biden stooge, just that I think Amash will help Biden, even if inadvertently. Democrats and Democratic leaners are too desperate to get Trump out to “throw their vote away.”

    None of this means a vote for a guy with a boot on his head makes any sense for any reason or a guy who thinks getting naked on stage is a proper debating tactic.

    P.S.-I do credit and collections in the B2B world. I don’t do consumer collections. You seem competent doing internet searches. Avail yourself of the talent and confirm what I am telling you.

  89. Jared

    dL: “Vermin and James Weeks would wipe the stage with Justin Amash in a libertarian debate.”

    That might depend on how much time is devoted to the topic of private nukes and age of consent laws.

    “And neither had the lapse in judgement to get caught up in a klan rally(Tea Party).”

    I remember how the Tea Party started. It was based on fiscal conservatism, and that was it. Republicans, independents, even some moderate Democrats were favorable to it. That was before it became a hybrid of movement and populist conservatism, before the Sarah Palins of the world started taking credit for it. Still, this hyperbolic urge of yours to compare any gathering of blue-collar conservatives to a Klan rally is essentially why we have Trump.

    “[Weeks and Supreme] would also win in a room full of democrats, socialists, open border enthusiasts, pro-choice women, college students, unionized workers, etc. Now, they would lose in a room full of republicans. I’ll grant you that.”

    Capital “D” Democrats? Sure. Socialists? Vermin had them at “Pony Pledge”, so that isn’t fair, but they will probably end up voting for one of the dozen or so socialist third parties or holding their nose and voting for Biden. Open border enthusiasts, how ever many of those exist? Probably so, although Amash has been no supporter of Trump’s Mexican wall-building efforts. Pro-choice women? As long as the legal option to terminate their unborn is all that defines them, sure, though I doubt most feminists would be able to get over Weeks’ little unsolicited striptease. College students? Depends whether they’re the kind who run for SGA offices (Amash) or the kind whose coaches sign them up for classes (Weeks, Supreme). Union workers who don’t mind paying union dues? Are too temperamentally conservative to pull the lever for a third-party candidate. In this imaginary two-on-one debate, Amash could easily win among pragmatist libertarians, moderates on both sides, run-of-the-mill independents, entrepreneurs and business professionals, religious people, people with families, women generally, and most ethnic minorities.

  90. dL

    What’s the problem here?

    Besides the obvious one? That I can simply appeal to your own twitter feed to dismiss Justin Amash?

    P.S.-I do credit and collections in the B2B world. Avail yourself of the talent and confirm what I am telling you.

    I’m not interested in a date, Dlugos. But if i was, I would be more impressed if you informed the board you had a big dick

  91. Anthony Dlugos

    I’m merely pointing out that I would have no reason to ever call you on an invoice due. Unless you own a greenhouse.

    You can point to my Twitter feed to prove I have reservations about one particular issue with regard to Amash.

    The fact that Boot on Head or Naked Guy happen to be pro-choice makes them as qualified to be the LP presidential nominee as my 12-year old nephew is qualified to be head coach of the Patriots because he just won the super bowl using the Pats on his Madden video game.

  92. dL

    I’m merely pointing out that I would have no reason to ever call you on an invoice due. Unless you own a greenhouse.

    I hope that’s not your goto pick up line…

  93. Jared

    dL: “Apparently, there are now two people in this world obsessed with private nukes…Capozzi and now you. Everyone else, not so much.”

    You sure? It seems odd to me that Vohra hasn’t compared opponents of WMD privatization to rapists or something.

  94. Anthony Dlugos

    Were it the case that the only problematic policy debate within the party the extremities of how far to extend the right to self-defense!

    Sadly, that…and Vohra’s abominable musings lo’ these last couple years…are only one of the most illustrative examples.

    Even the quotidian policy discussion within the party are WAY outside the frame of reference of the typical voters.

  95. dL

    You sure? It seems odd to me that Vohra hasn’t compared opponents of WMD privatization to rapists or something.

    I thought we were talking about Weeks/VS…

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