In a post at Kn@ppster, Tom Knapp explains why he is no longer interested in seeking the presidential nomination of the Libertarian and Boston Tea parties.
I’m sure you’ve heard the analogy of third party electoral politics to a hamster on a wheel — it runs and runs and runs, but never gets anywhwere. It’s a great analogy. And every time I sat down to start my campaign book … squeak … squeaaaaaak …
I had to go look, and when I did I discovered that my son’s hamster is different with respect to the analogy.
He doesn’t just run on the wheel. He runs on the wheel for about five minutes, then he stops, gets off, walks to the front of the wheel and looks. He looks at the wall of the cage, then he looks back at the wheel. Then he looks at the wall of his cage some more, and looks at the wheel some more. Then he gets back on the wheel and starts running again.
From analogy to cliche: The definition of insanity — or possibly the result of having a brain the size of a pea — is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
As a libertarian political activist, I could handle being a hamster on a wheel. But when the full weight of the fact that that damn wheel hadn’t taken me anywhere and that it was never GOING to take me anywhere landed on my consciousness, I was forced to choose between the insanity of returning to the wheel and the saner approach of taking a closer look at the cage wall and thinking about how one might actually chew through it.
In related news, Wayne Root has also recently indicated that he is no longer interested in seeking the Libertarian Party presidential nomination.
At this time, the candidates who have declared an interest in the LP nomination for POTUS are Robert Milnes, Angela Keaton (although it is not clear to what extent she was serious, or still interested), Joy Waymire, and possibly Michael Jingozian.
No candidates are known to be seeking the 2012 Boston Tea Party nomination for president at this time. Darryl Perry has indicated interest in a 2016 race.
If you mean Mary, she has made no announcement.
My understanding is that her advisor(s) believe she should not make a decision until close to the 2012 convention.
Is Mart Ruwart running?
JT, aren’t you the person that offered me their credit card #? Well ok. that’s downright voluntarily charitible of you.
Paulie: “Our Alabama State LP chair, Mark Bodenhausen, does that for a living. I think he charges $150/hr or so.”
$150? Might as well tell Milnes it’s $150,000.
I had been wondering why IPR seemed far less infused with bizarre ramblings lately. Now I know: No Milnes.
Does anyone know whether a usb mouse would work on this laptop? My present optical mouse doesn’t fit in the port.
Although I would support Gravel/Ruwart. or any good fusion executive ticket.
paulie, actually Milnes/Keaton might well be the best possible fusion ticket. Beats rickety Gravel/Ruwart.
On rvt.com there is a new listing for a 20′ Ford chassis class C motorhome for $3800 in MN. I could sure use that!
paulie @39, thank you for the tip. As soon as I get a few hundred $ to play with I’ll contact him. Like I said, also as soon as I secure a decent laptop I’ll call you for address to send TinyBook. The one I’m using I got from my webby just before he went to Pakistan for a visit. He unusually accepted a partial payment; I guess for travel cash. But I didn’t tell him I have no idea where I’m getting the rest! So, again, anybody who wants to help me and/or paulie get my TinyBook, go to my domain name website & click Make a Donation. That will go directly to my paypal.
ROFL. Good luck with that.
Our Alabama State LP chair, Mark Bodenhausen, does that for a living. I think he charges $150/hr or so.
from election central!
Winning is nice BUT NOT NECESSARY!
Obama, my Yokohama Momma, ‘won’
but he acts like the third term of W!
It is necessary to get the message out!
“If you add up all the resources that Libertarians invest in electoral races, I would guesstimate that >95% of those resources go into unwinnable races.”
Indeed, if you add up all the money spent on “unwinnable” races, it is still 95% less than the average US Congressman spends on his reelection.
PEACE
Good to see Milnes back in the mix. I fully support his candidacy for president of whatever trailer park he ends up in.
I would welcome Angela to the ticket. I’ve asked her & received hesitant replies. She seems to be preoccupied with antiwar.com & Prop.8.
I’ll definitely support a Robert Milnes/Angela Keaton ticket. The best way for Libertarians to differentiate themselves from everyone else.
Does anyone know if it is possible to extract info from a declared dead harddrive? I bet Homeland Security could!
Tom, did you check the motorhome for sale at the dealership in St. Louis? That is about what I am looking for & want & can afford barely. I can’t afford a Class A & there isn’t enough room to park it in my trailer park. A 1980-1991 Ford chassis about 30′. According to the listings I’ve seen on rvt.com & motorhomeclassifieds.com about 4-10,000 is the price range. The one in GA was 4000/30′. Man, I wanted that!
I did see a clip of Glenn Beck on nbc news at CPAC declaring “progressivism is the cancer in America.” No, Glenn, CPAC et al including Ron Paul, is the cancer in America. & he incorrectly alluded to Obama & policies as progressive. No, Glenn. Obama just masquerades as a progressive in order to get their support. Without them he would be little but liberal democrats & blacks. The 3 major choices in 2012 will be Obama/dems, reps very possibly Palin OMG! & the PLAS/FET ticket, which will win. Whether the BTP, GP &/or LP nominates the PLAS/FET or it gets enough ballot access as Independent remains to be seen.
U.S.Senate in MO. I believe Kit Bond has stated he is not running for reelection. I can’t access my cousin’s computer anymore as I got into an argument with her sister & husband. My harddrive is evidently shot. lost my emails & documents & photos. Have to get used to this laptop, esp. this mouseless mouse thing.
OK, everyb ody, I’m back somewhat. Have access to HP dual core laptop. If I secure it, I’ll send the TinyBook to paulie. I still need donations for laptop, motorhome & solar panels. Now, as for Tom, I suggested long ago that he run instead of POTUS a PLAS/FET campaign for U.S. Senate in M . I declare my candidacy for BTP presidential nomination for 2012. Keaton would be my pref. for vp. & if a PLAS/FET ticket is not nominated, I’d withdraw. I’m hoping the Phillies slate wins LNC. paulie, I assume by your comment you are interested in TinyBook. I’ll let you know if I secure this laptop or get another somehow. I’d call you for address.
tk, as a moderate L, I AM as radical — for change in the status quo — as Sanders, so it should be no surprise. I respect that many Ls are MORE radical than I am, but I’m suggesting that we Ls move our center of gravity toward the nation’s center. I am NOT suggesting we go all the way to that center.
Bob,
You write:
“tk, while it’s a straw man to say that some in the LP ‘resolutely focus on winning,’ winning surely has its advantages, yes?”
Yes, it does. But once again, I seem to be failing in communicating.
I have no problem with some in the LP “resolutely focusing on winning.”
I don’t even have a problem with the party as an organization “resolutely focusing on winning” a particular race.
What I have a problem with is the side effects inherent in a resolute focus on “resolutely focusing on winning,” especially in a game that we know is rigged against us, in a casino full of other games that might not be.
So now we’ve got a casino analogy. Might as well stretch it out.
The LP’s current cultural approach is the equivalent of saying that all of our money must be played on the roulette table, even though roulette has the worst house edge of any common casino game — and furthermore insisting that we will eventually eliminate that edge if we just wear our lucky ties, carry our rabbits’ feet, and talk nice to the croupiers.
There are other games in the casino. In some of them, there are opportunities to cut the house edge to almost nothing (taking the additional pass line odds on craps, for example) or even get a slight edge on the house (counting cards at the blackjack table, for example).
I don’t think there’s a silver bullet anywhere for us, but I do think that we have a better shot at reaching our goals (INCLUDING intermediate goals like winning elections) if we can become less like the Big Two political parties and more like some of the populist grassroots movements that not only affect those Big Two in significant ways, but sometimes threaten to become parties themselves.
“While you and I have at least some misgivings about some of Ron Paul’s views and their association with L-ism, is there any doubt the RP has in recent years has introduced L ideas to many, many more people than the LP has?”
No, no doubt at all. And he did so by building a movement that (see last few words of previous paragraph).
“I often note that if Bernie Sanders can win, why couldn’t a L?”
Sanders is an interesting case, and I’m surprised you’d bring him up. His political career is an existence proof that it is possible for radicals to carve out pluralities and even majorities for their candidates by sticking to their radical guns instead of moving to the center.
The Vermont Progressive Party doesn’t just have a US Senator, it’s the only third party in the US with more than seat in a state legislature (it has six in the Vermont Assembly and one in the state Senate). It also controls three city council seats and the mayoralty of Burlington.
“There’s the old saying ‘Fake it til you make it.’ If Ls run plausible campaigns that are at once principled yet realistic in their positioning, isn’t that more likely to attract more people to our ideas?”
“Plausible” /= “look, talk and act like those other guys”
“Realistic” /= “within some specified locus of the center”
tk, while it’s a straw man to say that some in the LP “resolutely focus on winning,” winning surely has its advantages, yes?
While you and I have at least some misgivings about some of Ron Paul’s views and their association with L-ism, is there any doubt the RP has in recent years has introduced L ideas to many, many more people than the LP has?
I often note that if Bernie Sanders can win, why couldn’t a L?
There’s the old saying “Fake it til you make it.” If Ls run plausible campaigns that are at once principled yet realistic in their positioning, isn’t that more likely to attract more people to our ideas?
Brian,
You write:
“Tom, can you identify the most prominent electoral race of the last ‘decade or so’ that the LP has ‘focused resolutely on winning?'”
Before I answer that question, I’m going to point out that the problem I ‘m referring to is not so much that the LP “focuses resolutely on winning,” as that it “focuses on focusing resolutely on winning.” There’s a difference.
Secondly, I’m going to say that when referring to “the LP,” one may be referring to any number of organizations.
For example, a few years ago (I don’t remember which cycle it was), the Missouri LP “focused resolutely on winning” a state legislative race with a candidate who had just come off a term as a (partisan) elected mayor of one of the district’s main cities.
In 2006, the Texas LP and the national LP “resolutely focused on winning” US House District 22 with Bob Smithers, while a lot of activists “resolutely focused on winning” US House District 10 with Michael Badnarik.
“If you add up all the resources that Libertarians invest in electoral races, I would guesstimate that >95% of those resources go into unwinnable races.”
I agree. But whether or not a race is unwinnable is not, strictly speaking, relevant to whether or not the LP might “resolutely focus on winning” it.
“The alleged strategic choice between educational and winnable campaigns is a false dichotomy.”
I agree. I’m not sure why you think I wouldn’t. I also think that there are additional strategic options beyond “winnable” and “educational.”
What if all the time, energy, and money spent by libertarian activists was spent on advocating libertarian ideas (as opposed to ideas designed to woo non-libertarian voters) and direct politics (lobbying, referendums, etc) instead of merely maintaining the LP hamster wheel?
Would society benefit more?
I won’t even get into the gerbil tunnels.
All that being said, perhaps if Root becomes chair and Brian Holtz ran for president, it would free up time for libertarians to engage the world with ideas instead of pleas to enter a big tent and ride on the hamster wheel.
Tom, can you identify the most prominent electoral race of the last “decade or so” that the LP has “focused resolutely on winning”?
If you add up all the resources that Libertarians invest in electoral races, I would guesstimate that >95% of those resources go into unwinnable races.
The alleged strategic choice between educational and winnable campaigns is a false dichotomy. Our strategy should be showing and growing America’s electoral demand for more personal and economic freedom.
Yes, sorry, I meant 2012.
Root did say he wanted to run for the LP presidential nomination in 2016 if he won the LNC chairman race I think.
I love the Hamster on a wheel analogy , it represents well the LP and its focus on competing in electoral politics .
This is of course, after each new chair (local, state or national) or faction *reinvents* the wheel.
PEACE
@#2 Wayne Root has also recently indicated that he is no longer interested in seeking the Libertarian Party presidential nomination.”
Given his Republican Lite rhetoric, it is for the better if he stays out of the race as well.
Correction. Wayne reason felt it was more important that the LP party should be in a better position before he runs a Presidental Candidate. He doesn’t want just 1% of the Vote, He wants the LP party to actual win office. In order to do that the party has to be in a better position.
We need a POTUS candidate with some name ID that would bring credibility to party. We need someone that could unify the party. Most important, we need a candidate without all of negative baggage that Bob Barr brought to the LP.
Honestly, I am not sure that person is out there.
Although, I disagree with Mr Knapp on some issues, I think he would make a great VP candidate and I would like to place his name in nomination. Jingozian would also make a good VP candidate.
See ya in St. Louis
from Don Lake and the Wikipedia file.
———— Johnson was nominated for the Vice President position in 1864 on the National Union Party ticket. He and Lincoln were elected in November 1864. Johnson succeeded to the presidency upon Lincoln’s assassination on April 15, 1865.
————– While Johnson is the most recent president to represent a party other than the Republican or Democratic parties, having represented both the Democrats and the National Union Party, his party status was ambiguous during his presidency.
————— As president, he did not identify with the two main parties—though he did try for the Democratic nomination in 1868—and so while President he attempted to build a party of loyalists under the National Union label.
————– Asked in 1868 why he did not become a Democrat, he said, “It is true I am asked why don’t I join the Democratic Party. Why don’t they join me …
————– His failure to make the National Union brand an actual party made Johnson effectively an independent during his presidency, though he was supported by Democrats and later rejoined the party as a Democratic Senator from Tennessee from 1875; For these reasons he is usually counted as a Democrat when identifying presidents by their political parties.
———— But not always. Some references indicate that the Union Party was a Republican spin off. But ya know how shabby general education survey course text books can be, and I sure have been uninspired by school books in the mid west ……….
Johnson was the first U.S. President to be impeached. He is commonly ranked by historians as being among the worst U.S. presidents.
“Well technically, the 1864 Republican Ticket was headed by (hold your nose) fired Union General McClellan and Republican Lincoln and Kentucky Democrat Andrew Johnson were the winning ‘Union Party’ team ——- rewritten as GOP.”
McClellan was the Democratic candidate, not the Republican candidate.
The Republican Party temporarily renamed itself the National Union Party at its 1864 convention in order to bring pro-Union Democrats (including VP nominee Andrew Johnson) into a coalition that they couldn’t get if they insisted on just being “the Republican Party” in that election.
A splinter of the Republican Party, the Radical Democracy Party, nominated 1856 Republican candidate John C. Fremont. Fremont later dropped out of the race in return for Lincoln firing Postmaster General Montgomery Blair.
Darryl,
It’s not really clear from the speech excerpt that I posted, but the “hamster on a wheel” analogy isn’t really meant to be personal, but more party-oriented.
The wheel the LP has put itself on, especially over the last decade or so, is the “focus resolutely on winning elections as the likely method of realizing our vision” wheel.
One side effect of staying on that wheel and getting nowhere is an increasingly cargo-cultish internal culture: We keep thinking, and saying amongst ourselves — sometimes subtly, sometimes overtly — that if we just figure out how to comport ourselves as if we were Beltway players, we’ll magically become Beltway players.
We’re on the wheel, which is bad enough since it’s not getting us anywhere, but above and beyond that we’ve stopped actually running (which would at least burn fat and build muscle) and started thinking that the key to getting somewhere on the damn wheel is buying a more fashionable track suit that makes us look svelte and studly.
I’m not saying we should become an “educational” party or stop running candidates. What I am saying … well, I’ll say what I’m saying a little bit later 😉
from the trivia pile
Gene Berkman // Feb 27, 2010:
“Maybe now we can start focusing on building the Libertarian Movement from the ground up.”
——— Don Lake: Forty years of stagnation. A decade of slide, slide,, slide! [Hey, at least Libs are way ahead of Greens, reformers, American Socialist, Bible Beater and, of course, 2004 (DOA) NLP!]
Since 1856 every President has been a Democrat or Republican.
———— Well technically, the 1864 Republican Ticket was headed by (hold your nose) fired Union General McClellan and Republican Lincoln and Kentucky Democrat Andrew Johnson were the winning ‘Union Party’ team ——- rewritten as GOP.
Don’t hate me, I am only the messenger!
tk, good luck in whatever you do….
gb: Since 1856 every President has been a Democrat or Republican. We need to show some strength in communities across the country before we will be taken seriously at the national level.
me: Checking the premise here — from formation to 1860, how did the Rs rise to a national party? Did they grow slowly from the community level?
Tom, I feel the same way about national politics, especially after serving a term as chair of a national party. I think libertarians in both the LP & BTP can achieve more by building strong state and local party organizations and running more active campaigns for state level offices.
Since the beginning of 2010, two candidates have expressed to me their intent to run for the BTP 2012 nomination. However, they have not officially announced their candidacies yet, so I’m afraid I can’t add their names to your list.
I understand that you feel like a hamster on a wheel, but I do ask that in the next 2 years as you take time to “look at the walls” – you reconsider and get back in the race.
Maybe now we can start focusing on building the Libertarian Movement from the ground up.
Build your local group, and connect it with your community – through educational and propaganda activities, through being involved with initiatives, and through local electoral contests.
Since 1856 every President has been a Democrat or Republican. We need to show some strength in communities across the country before we will be taken seriously at the national level.
Good for Tom and Wayne – now they can focus on something that will help their careers, and not distract from them.
lol, there will have to be other candidates.
But given those choices…..
Jeez, I don’t know, Waymire I guess.
Milnes may jump ahead if/when he actually sends me a mini-laptop like this one which I am borrowing from Rachel Hawkridge, ROFL
So if it were between Milnes, Keaton, and Waymire; who should the LP nomination go to?
I would prefer if Tom had stayed in, even if he didn’t really want to run.
For one thing, it gave me an excuse to repost his opinion articles here.
I love the Hamster on a wheel analogy , it represents well the LP and its focus on competing in electoral politics .
from the peanut gallery ………
Andy // Feb 27, 2010:
Good. Knapp sucked as a candidate anyway………..
“In related news, Wayne Root has also recently indicated that he is no longer interested in seeking the Libertarian Party presidential nomination.”
Given his Republican Lite rhetoric, it is for the better if he stays out of the race as well……….
——– While I have to agree [as a non Lib] with both of these comments, but I am very impressed with my fellow Missourian’s increased skill in written communications …….
Good. Knapp sucked as a candidate anyway.
“In related news, Wayne Root has also recently indicated that he is no longer interested in seeking the Libertarian Party presidential nomination.”
Given his Republican Lite rhetoric, it is for the better if he stays out of the race as well.
“At this time, the candidates who have declared an interest in the LP nomination for POTUS are Robert Milnes, Angela Keaton (although it is not clear to what extent she was serious, or still interested), Joy Waymire, and possibly Michael Jingozian.”
The only one on this list who is not a complete joke is Jingozian, but he’s got a long way to go to be able to be the type of candidate that this party needs.
I hope some good Libertarian Party candidates for President step up between now and 2012. The time is ripe for the Libertarian Party to make huge gains given the Ron Paul r3VOLution and Campaign for Liberty, the TEA Party movement, and the disgust/disappointment with Obama that many in the public are feeling. The right Libertarian Party candidate running the right kind of campaign could take advantage of this situation and bring the Libertarian Party further than it has ever been before.
Good for you, Tom.