Email from LPHQ:
Dear Paul,
Somewhere, Barack Obama is smiling – and your freedoms are in greater danger now than perhaps at any other point in our nation’s history.
You see, a new national poll finds only 53% of Americans say capitalism is better than socialism.
Another 27% aren’t sure which one is better. Really.
And it gets even worse when you talk to people under 30.
Only 37% say capitalism works better than socialism. 30% are too ignorant to know which one works better.
One third of them, 33%, proudly claim socialism is the way to go!
These are the people who will be picking elected officials for the next 50 years.
And as Barack Obama, and Republicans in states like Indiana and California, continue to expand government, more and more Americans will simply give up and join the 47% who think the rubble of the Soviet Union is a blueprint for freedom.
They only need to convince 3% of Americans to give up to have their anti-capitalist majority.
If that doesn’t make you angry, I don’t think you realize what that means.
It means politicians can jack up their war against our economic freedoms with no fear of losing their seats.
When barely a majority of all Americans support capitalism – and two-thirds of younger voters either back socialism or can’t see the difference – your property, your prosperity and your liberty are now on a death watch.
Politicians are now going to go after your paycheck, your property and your fragile freedoms with no fear of retribution.
I say we strike that fear right back into them.
The only thing these power-hungry politicians understand is the pain of Election Day defeat.
And the only way to do that is to build a Libertarian Party that can win elections and fight for liberty, capitalism and free markets.
Can I count on you to help Libertarians win elections with your most generous gift of $25, $50, $100, $250, $500, $1000, $2500 or whatever you can afford right now?
Just click here to do your part to fight back.
We are building a focused, effective Libertarian Party that can deliver votes – and victory – on Election Day.
But we can’t do that without your support. We need the resources to do the voter research, buy ads, help build up state and local affiliates and Get Out The Vote on Election Day.
Make no mistake, with power-greedy politicians seeing only 53% of Americans are willing to say capitalism is better than socialism, your liberty and your prosperity are on their death bed.
The only way to revive it is by defeating these politicians and electing advocates of liberty.
And the only way to do that is by building a hard-hitting, politically effective Libertarian Party that wins elections and makes politicians fear liberty-minded voters.
I need to hear from you right now for that to happen.
Can I count on you to fight back and defend capitalism with your best gift of $25, $50, $100, $250, $500, $1000, $2500 or whatever you can afford right now?
Just click here to do your part to knock some sense into 47% of America.
With optimism,
Donny Ferguson
Director of Communications
Libertarian Party
[email protected]
Once again, Ferguson goes off the ranch to promote agenda, rather than truth. The poll being referenced was a Rasmussen poll published on April 9, 2009. From that Rasmussen press release:
——————–[
The question posed by Rasmussen Reports did not define either capitalism or socialism
It is interesting to compare the new results to an earlier survey in which 70% of Americans prefer a free-market economy. The fact that a “free-market economy” attracts substantially more support than “capitalism” may suggest some skepticism about whether capitalism in the United States today relies on free markets.
Other survey data supports that notion. Rather than seeing large corporations as committed to free markets, two-out-of-three Americans believe that big government and big business often work together in ways that hurt consumers and investors.
]——————–
Clearly, the majorities of these survey populations believe that capitalism is not the same as free-market, and who can blame them for that belief? In many of the respondents’ minds, they were being asked if they preferred that the product of their work be owned by the government, or collectivist business entities.
The LP is railing counter-productively here, and playing into the hands of those they oppose. Instead of pointing out that the current economic problems were not caused by deregulation, but instead by legislating regulations that allowed non-transparency in corporate transactions, the LP lamely attacks persons who understand that it was corporations run by piss-poor businesspersons, that got the taxpayer bail-out monies to save their incompetent asses. This isn’t free-market principles, it’s a horrible manifestation of crony-capitalism.
Yeah, but go ahead and give your money to these ideoillogic hammerheads; these asswipes unfit for use in a dysentery ward short on supplies, so they can keep issuing off-target dialectical asininities, intended only to further solidify their base of fainéant Republican whiners, and continue carrying the LP further away from libertarianism on into its dismal future as GOP lite.
The Soviet Union was a communist dictatorship, not a modern socialist country. Picking the Soviet Union as an example of a typical socialist country would be as wrong as picking Nazi Germany as a good typical example of capitalism. Mussolini described fascism as the merger of corporate(capitalists) and state power so I wouldn’t use him either.
If you need to look at a socialist country to ponder try Canada. You can find problems with socialism there and talk to Canadians about solutions. It’s just a short trip across the border. You’ll find most of them very civil.
And Jack, maybe communism in your own mental image is stateless and classless but all communist governments so far have led to strong, oppressive governments and a society of several classes: party apparatchiks, military personnel (always of at least 2 classes: political and defense), police, workers, prison workers, etc.
The problem for a people that want to be free is how to not only prevent the government from having too much power but also the capitalists from having too much power. For example, county land use decisions that are codified into law are heavily influenced by the wealthiest people/corporations in society through support for certain elected officials, leaving out the typical citizens. How do we keep the wealthiest from having the greatest influence through their monetary support of government and maintain our freedom?
Erik,
many would argue a lot of things. 🙂 There are people who think that if you don’t want to privatise the roads you’re an incurable socialist.
My point is that, as you said, different people understand many different things when hearing the words ‘capitalism’ and ‘socialism’. And in many of those cases I would definitely say that this definition of socialism works better than that definition of capitalism, etc.
I think this poll more likely underscores how much the American public fails to understand the differences between economic philosophies. The same could be said about political philosophies.
Just look at the use of the word ‘liberal’ in America, for instance. And I think we can all agree here that ‘socialism’ is often misused. Those who don’t like ‘capitalism’ probably don’t understand it, or likely confuse it with the corporatism Republicans push as their brand of ‘capitalism.’ Those who like ‘socialism’ are more likely to think of mixed-use social/capital systems like Canada and/or the Scandinavian countries than pure socialism.
Nate,
Many would argue that kibbutzim more closely resemble anarcho-syndicalism than anything.
I like what Kimberley is saying. Folks think like capitalism and socialist are in some trade-off relation, diametricly opposed. Nonsense.
I thought “capitalism” was nothing more than a fancy word for freedom of trade, but some folks seems to worship it like it’s god or something.
Inaccurately dubbing Obama a socialist is dumb. It is recruiting people to support socialism.
No socialist on the planet would regard Obama as a socialist.
Frankly I think the problems is with those of us who profess to believe in capitalism, or whatever we care to call it.
How many candidates have explained that occupational licensing laws don’t help low income people? Where’s the literature on the issue?
Have we even pointed out that midwives were outlawed in many states, or that regulations make it difficult to own and operate a private bus company, or that building codes are there for the home building and mortgage banking industry?
Or that the FED is there to benefit Wall Street at the expense of Main Street and where’s our literature on the history of inflation proving our case?
Haiku meets dadaism
reading Don Lake
Woodstock, brown acid?
401k as 401 K-Mar
facing homelessness
ya think Joe and Jane Six Pack actually care?
Eternaverse and mdh,
Actually, I think Jack defines capitalism and socialism correctly.
What true libertarians are for is voluntaryism, free association, any number of things – but not corporate capitalism.
Anyone who thinks corporate capitalism can exist without the state, whether they want it to or not, is mistaken.
I think we need to re-assess what is commonly referred to as capitalism. The corporatism that we have today has failed, and the fact is that people going around claiming that what we have today is capitalism has caused otherwise intelligent people to wrongly associate the two. There is no capitalist society in today’s global economic landscape. Not one.
Kimberly you have hit the nail on the head as far I can tell.
The marketplace hs either been open or closed with some degree in between for centuries to the betterment or detriment of mankind.
Capitalism and socialism are just words that have been added to the debate in the recent years.
Me, I am for open markets.
MW
Property rights, aka capitalism, are the basis of all other rights/ freedoms. If we don’t have capitalism, we don’t have any freedom of speech, the press, nothing. If only liberals understood that.
What if we could just let go of “capitalism” and “socialism”. What if we are all just foolishly caught in old paradigms, and the idea that we have to pick one or the other of two failed systems?
An article in the Guardian UK really made me think.
What if we think what comes AFTER socialism and capitalism?
I posted the article at my blog:
http://wilderside.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/economic-advise-from-david-mcreynolds/
Now we can see all the LP psychos come out.
Lets teach them something:
Socialism is defined as when those who work the means of production own them and/or they are used for the betterment of society. The Eastern Bloc can best be defined as “state capitalist”.
Communism is a STATELESS, classless society. In Communism there is no government, so defining things like the Patriot act as Communist is rediculous.
Facism is meant to crush the workers’ movement, not capitalism. When Franco started the Civil War in Spain, the Anarchist labor union, the CNT, had 1.5 million members. The UGT (socialist trade union) was the 2nd largest union in spain (CNT was the largest), and leftist parties won the elections. Franco declared himself against the “reds and enemies of Catholicism”. Franco was supported by Hitler, Fascist Portugal, and Fascist Italy.
In Germany, the Anarchist labor union (FAUD-Free Workers Union of Germany) had about 150,000 members, and there had been a failed Marxist revolution in 1919-1920. The Nazis had some socialist policies because they followed what a British politician later said of workers “Give them social reforms, or they will give you Social Revolution”.
In Fascist Italy, the Union Syndico Italiano (another Anarchist trade union) had 500,000 members, and a very strong workers movement. The Fascists took power to destroy this (the USI had to work underground, it is still in existance today)
When the baby boomers pass, a new generation will vote in a form of socialist democracy. This is great news!
This LP letter does make one very vital point that 3% is all the margin that separates the US populace from being pro-socialism.
Let this inspire every good person to find one of those people in the 27% that don’t know which is better capitalism or socialism and teach them why socialism is so very bad and capitalism is good.
Obama is not a Liberal. Actually though, he’s closer to a Fascist in the tradition of Mussolini, Hitler and Czauchescu: State ownership of Enterprise, Slavey through Mandatory Civil Service, Bans on free speech through the Fairness Doctrine
And the Republicans laid the groundwork for all this. There’s no doubt in my mind that war criminal McCain would be doing all of the exact same things (probably worse).
This is too stupid. America is not ever going to become a full-bore socialist state. Most likely it just end up another miserable, welfarist nanny state like those in Europe. And when that happens, I’ll simply move to Europe. (If I have to live in that kind of nanny state, I’ll pick one without the prudes, creationists, nationalists and world empire.)
The most socialistic part of our government, Eric, is the military.
Funny you bring up Ceausescu, Dondie. I visited Romania while he was in power, and studied him extensively afterwards, including the classic conservative book, Red Horizons.
The U.S. Patriot Act is pure Ceausescu. Ceausescu justified much of his totalitarian measures as a means of fighting “terrorism.” Airplane cockpits were sealed off to prevent “terrorists” from hijacking the plane. Massive wiretapping of citizens, monitoring their writings, all were means of fighting “terrorism.”
I remember a free America. I remember in the 1980s when I flew from New York to Washington DC on a shuttle flight. I paid in cash, and didn’t have to show any I.D.
I also remember when real conservatives bragged about such freedoms, in contrast to Communism.
Now, phony “conservatives” are embracing Ceausescu style Communism, and calling it “freedom.”
The Patriot Act is Communist, as is the whipped up Orwellian “war fever” to keep us in fear so we’ll not worry about losing our freedoms.
I’ve seen Communism first hand, Dondie. Which is why I’m a Libertarian Peacenik.
Gladson is right. Obama is not a Liberal. Actually though, he’s closer to a Fascist in the tradition of Mussolini, Hitler and Czauchescu: State ownership of Enterprise, Slavey through Mandatory Civil Service, Bans on free speech through the Fairness Doctrine, stamping out of Voting Rights by Brown shirted Thugs like ACORN.
What do you expect? Libertarians have been beating up on their friends in the Republican Party for years, and apologizing for the Fascist Democrats.
Attack George Bush, and says shit like “Oh golly gee, the Republicans are just as bad as the Democrats,” and this is precisely the result.
Stop whining Libertarians. Most of you contributed to this outcome, by bashing the GOP.
Nate: capitalism *is* defined that way, by many people.”
AF: Then let’s educate those people on what capitalism actually is.
Paul: I’m not sure how much power the LP could conceivably have in redefining commonly understood terms, but in any case, Nate is correct; the meaning of the “capitalism” that different people approve or disapprove of in this survey varies widely.
“I would say that the way it “works” is through big government and big bribes, something libertarians don’t much flaunt as the way things should work. And capitalism *is* defined that way, by many people.”
—-
Then let’s educate those people on what capitalism actually is. If the real definition doesn’t stick, then we need a new word for an economy based on liberty.
People who think capitalism involves big government and big bribes are indeed ignorant of the definition of fascism, because that’s closer to what it is than capitalism.
I agree though, that the LP email smacks of fear-mongering, and that the reference to polls showing an anti-capitalist bent leaves me feeling empty after previously referring to polls as supporting the libertarian viewpoint. We can’t have it both ways.
The truth is, libertarians have always been in the extreme minority, and probably will have to content itself for now with being a sort of ‘loyal opposition’ critic of those in power.
So, let me get this right… when 70% of Americans are against wallstreet bailouts the Libertarian Party puts out a “We are the only Party that sides with the majority of Americans, aren’t we great, let’s pat ourselves on the back” memo. And yet when 63% of Americans under 30 disagree with a Libertarian view they write:
“Only 37% say capitalism works better than socialism. 30% are too ignorant to know which one works better.
One third of them, 33%, proudly claim socialism is the way to go!”
So does the Libertarian Party side with the ignorants or socialists on the bailout issue?
I find it incredibly insulting to call people ignorant for not answering a question with an indoctrinated “socialism is evil” or “capitalism is evil” answer, and who in fact were most likely among the smartest of those polled, possibly needing a stricter definition of the terms before being willing to give an answer one way or the other.
A kibutz in Israel is socialist, even communist, and works quite well. A family unit is most often socialist, even communist, and many families work quite well. If capitalism is defined as using money to make more money, by any means, I would say that the way it “works” is through big government and big bribes, something libertarians don’t much flaunt as the way things should work. And capitalism *is* defined that way, by many people.
“Obama may be a liberal democract but he is not a closet socialist”
Obama is no closet socialist.
He is a wide open, out-of-the-closet socialist where everyone can see it. He is a fascist-socialist.
Bush was a communist-socialist, pushing his common values on us all.
Pretending that one is “liberal” and the other “conservative” … really, that dog won’t hunt anymore.
And I should know.
woof!
David, you are right. Obama is not a “closet socialist”. He is a fascist – overseeing and implementing the same fascist economic policies that the United State has been sliding into for nigh onto 80 years now.
Nothing to see here, move along!
On the other hand, as Victor Aquilera says: Fascism = socialism with stockholders.
This is ridiculous… I have a great admiration for persons like Ron Paul.. and I also have had a great admiration for much of what this party stands for… But what you are doing is fear-mongering… Obama may be a liberal democract but he is not a closet socialist… Quit your McCarthyism and trying to garner votes with fear and get back to standing on your values. Otherwise, you playing into the same power plays that you Democrats and Republicans are playing… I want to a 3rd party voice, but if your letter is what it sounds like – then the Libertarian voice won’t be any different.
Respectfully but Passionately,
David B. Gladson
Pendleton, SC