On MSNBC, Root Criticizes McCain and Questions Palin Tea Party Credentials

On Friday Mar. 26 a Bloomberg News story was headlined “Tea Party Advocates Who Scorn Socialism Want A Government Job”.   The article was about a Bloomberg poll that found 26% of Americans agree when asked “Do you consider yourself a supporter of the Tea Party Movement?”  Of those supporters, 70% agreed with the vague statement that “the government needs to do a lot more to create jobs”.

The poll also found that 53% of Tea Party supporters favored privatizing Social Security and Medicare, compared to 33% of everyone polled.  30% of everyone polled strongly agreed that “health care is a private matter and individuals should make sure their needs are taken care of, through insurance, public clinics, or by paying for services directly”.  52% of everyone polled said that for deficit reduction the nation should consider “reducing annual cost of living increases for Social Security participants”.

MSNBC asked 2008 Libertarian Party Vice-Presidential nominee Wayne Root about the poll, while displaying a graphic saying “Tea Party Hypocrites?”  Root hadn’t seen the polling data and reiterated the Tea Party philosophy of “smaller government, limited government, lower taxes, economic freedom”, and said “government is a failure at creating jobs”.

Root went on to call John McCain “a big-government Republican” who “tries to scare you to death that the sky is falling, the world is ending, the terrorists are coming, and we’ve got to spend money. And by spending money, the government gets bigger and more powerful”.   Root said: “What the Tea Party is about is common sense, and I think Libetarians have common sense. Sarah Palin has been involved in the Tea Party movement, but there are a lot of people who are questioning whether she’s a Republican who wants to get the Tea Parties to support Republican candidates, or whether she really stands for limited government, even if that means electing Tea Party candidates who aren’t necessarily Republican. That’s certainly where I stand.”

Root is the #2 headliner behind Sarah Palin at today’s Tea Party Showdown In Searchlight, Nevada.  Before today’s rally this morning, Palin spoke at a rally for McCain.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aLBZwxqgYgwI&pos=8

131 thoughts on “On MSNBC, Root Criticizes McCain and Questions Palin Tea Party Credentials

  1. Web Smith

    The sad thing about the Tea Party is that they do not yet realize that Palin is a RINO, FOXNews plant. She had just come from supporting McCain against a Tea Party candidate in Arizona and McCain has been instrumental in implementing the things that the Tea Party hates. The scary thing about the Tea Party is that while they understand that they are being over taxed, they have not yet stopped to realize that all of the things that they are being taxed for are broken. The Postal Service is broken, Social Security is broken, Medicare and Medicaid are broken, Fannie and Freddie are broken, the War on Poverty is broken, the War on Drugs is broken, TARP is broken, the economy is broken, immigration is broken, our relationships with other countries are broken, our educational system is broken, the FDA and EPA are broken and not protecting us, the cash for clunkers program was broken before it was ever implemented, our financial system is broken, the tax code its self is broken, and instead of living in peace and prosperity, we are at war and struggling to put roofs over our heads and food on our tables. Once the Tea Party realizes this, there will be nowhere for people like Reid or McCain to run and hide. This, by the way, is why you really, really, don’t want the government running health care.. http://bit.ly/dmW9A1

  2. Root Rewrites History

    Root enthusiastically endorsed McCain/Lieberman for president/VP shortly before he decided to run for the LP presidential nomination.

    I’d have more respect for Root if he loudly and often spoke of his past support for McCain, his past support of wars, his past opposition to gay marriage — all fairly recent — and then loudly proclaimed how wrong he’d been, and why he changed his mind.

    He supports the war in 2007, claims he doesn’t in early 2008, then in late 2008 he now supports an Afghan surge, then in 2009 when Obama supports an Afghan surge, Root opposes it (without explaining why he’s now criticizing Obama for an position which he himself advocated only a few months before).

    Root always flip flops, then tries to drop his past position into an Orwellian Memory Hole, hoping no one will notice or remember.

    It makes Root seem very slimy and untrustworthy.

  3. Aaron Starr

    Perhaps my memory is failing me here, but I recall watching on television where Wayne Root discussed a hypothetical McCain/Lieberman ticket. Root concluded as a political commentator and odds-maker that such a ticket would have done well in the polls. I happen to agree with that assessment. It doesn’t follow that having such an opinion constitutes an endorsement of that ticket.

  4. Jake Witmer

    I agree with Andy that it is good to see Root not settling for the unacceptable, and criticizing the tyrants he mistakenly used to support. (He outlines his transition in his book, for those who care to get the facts.)

    I also agree with Aaron’s logic: Root never endorsed McCain-Lieberman.

    I take umbrage with the “slimy and untrustworthy” comment above. Can the man learn, grow, and change? Most of the people here remember a time when they were less consistent in their philosophies, or hadn’t learned to speak well on a given subject.

    I have run into maybe 50 libertarians nationwide that have a grasp on both libertarian philosophy and strategy (meaning that they comprehend the logic behind various libertarian strategies, even if they don’t endorse them).

    It’s easy for worthless libertarians that have never helped move public opinion one iota in the direction of individual freedom to criticize Root. Most of the people criticizing Root have not had one favorable public appearance in the mainstream media, and not one significant broadcast of the libertarian message.

    Root often has five or six mainstream media appearances per week, where he loudly defends the libertarian perspective.

    I care less about what he said when he was, as he admitted in his book, a “Republican”, than what he says today, as a Libertarian.

    Besides, look at the Libertarian Party, full of pompous, infighting, money-wasting “intellectuals”:
    1) They defraud the only people doing any work for them, and fire them out of jealousy and desire to cover up fraud.
    2) They say they believe in the free market, but for the one thing that is allegedly most important to them (ballot access), they hire worthless non-libertarians instead of libertarians who can add value (50,000 petition signers have no idea that they signed for the LP in states like IL, TX, OK, etc…)
    3) They hire their workers on a corrupt system of political cronyism, and are everything they criticize about the Ds and Rs… (paying attention, Haugh, Kohlhaas, Verney, Cory, etc…?)

    Root is a competent guy. The LP needs a lot more like him. If I could be a delegate from my home state of AK, I’d vote for him, but alas: AK is corrupt and under the control of a corrupt man named Scott Kohlhaas. (LOL: Kohlhaas, a “Libertarian” said that if I didn’t still have a driver’s license from AK, he “wouldn’t let me be a delegate”. When I said I did, he agreed to list me as a delegate in 2008. LOL!! Since when does being able to produce my “papers, please” disqualify me to be a LP delegate?) I will likely have to be a delegate from my new home state, even though I retain my AK DL. (Kohlhaas doesn’t allow the LP delegate system to function for those who point out his instances of fraud and neglect.) …LOL.

    Root would do a vastly better job as chair than any other candidate, by virtue of his professionalism. In typical losertarian fashion, the haters criticize, without stepping up and showing how outreach should be done.

  5. Dear .......and what does THAT have to do

    [Bruce Wayne] Root enthusiastically endorsed McCain Lieberman — and then publicly lied and claimed he hadn’t when asked about it ……. and also claimed that the $13T national debt is closer to $100T………. How does Bruce Wayne feel about Steve Kubby’s loopy grin and George Phillies’ claim that the Libs were the solo 21st Century anti war organization ????????????? Duh!

  6. Aaron Starr

    Speaking as a Libertarian with 30 years involvement with the Party, I’m frankly far more interested in Wayne Root’s views in 2010 than in 2006.

  7. Root Flips Flops Rather Than Grows

    Aaron Starr: “Speaking as a Libertarian with 30 years involvement with the Party, I’m frankly far more interested in Wayne Root’s views in 2010 than in 2006.”

    The issue is not Root’s position in 2006 or 2010, but his honesty in discussing his past.

    How Root confronts his past demonstrates his current honesty and therefore remains a relevant issue for 2010.

    As for Root’s “growth” and “evolution,” that falsely implies that he’s been moving in a consistent direction. This is not so.

    Root supported war in 2007. He opposed war in early 2008. Then he backtracked and supported an Afghan surge in late 2008. Then he opposed an Afghan surge in 2009 when Obama supported it.

    Root opposed gay marriage in 2007. He supported gay marriage in 2008. Then he backtracked halfway and said that gay marriage was a states rights issue.

    This is not “growth” or “evolution”. It’s flip-flopping.

    Rather than “grow” in one direction, Root goes back and forth, back and forth, depending on what his current target customer base wants to hear.

  8. Thomas L. Knapp

    Aaron,

    If Wayne had retracted his endorsement of McCain/Lieberman, that endorsement might still have been a political handicap, but possibly not an insuperable one. He could have tried to work it into his “conversion testimony” or whatever.

    Instead, he chose to lie about it — and not just retail or in private, but publicly, flagrantly and on video.

    That’s almost always a bad idea. It’s a reasonable basis for wondering what else he’s lying about.

  9. Robb Cunningham

    I would like to say that Wayne is consistent now. All the Libertarians get very intellectual about small issues but are missing the big picture. If the focus is not on getting Elected the Libertarian Party is not doing their job. I know Wayne has that focus! While Libertarians wants to pick apart one little speech American says, “Who cares?!”. That is the difference between a Political Party and a Philosophical Movement. All politicians have made missteps and Wayne doesn’t feel like he needs to get that intellectually involved with one little speech that just happened to get recorded! He is now focused a committed to the overall Platform and wants to convert American attitudes toward that ideal. I admit I was put off by him at first but realized he is right! We can sit around all our life deciding if it’s on record spending, a new preamble or a pig flying but is EASY to Veto and Vote NO! That will only happen if we get an ELECTED Libertarian!

  10. Robb Cunningham

    Are you kidding!? I thought you would have a hard comeback, my God he is a non-stop campaign machine! Just the fact he BELIEVES Libertarians can get ELECTED puts him way ahead of the competition. As you said he will do ANYTHING to promote himself, even wearing assless chaps in a Gay parade. I think it is funny when people say he is too in to himself for the Libertarian Party. THAT IS WHAT THE PARTY IS ALL ABOUT! The Ann Rand philosophy of egoism is the basis of Freedom and Individualism that we fight for every day! This is the Party of ME! To me it is the Party of Robb Cunningham, to Wayne it is the Party of Wayne Root! And he is on the stage with whoever will let him to get ELECTED!

  11. LP Is a Philosophical Movement

    That is the difference between a Political Party and a Philosophical Movement.

    A “Philosophy” is a set of “Principles.”

    If the LP is just about getting people elected, it’s no different from the Dems or GOP.

    The LP is supposedly unique, because as a “party of Principle,” it is a Philosophical entity, one that places Principle ahead of Politics, one that would rather lose elections than betray its Principles and Philosophy.

    That’s a good thing.

    Anyone who thinks winning elections is more important than upholding philosophy or principles is applying Demopublican goals and tactics to the LP.

    There is no way to reconcile those who place politics ahead of principle with those who place principle ahead of politics. Either one side or the other will win, or the LP will be paralyzed from infighting, but under no circumstance can both sides be satisfied.

    Many LP members see the LP as a Philosophical Movement, and we’re not going away, much as the Pragmatarian Reformers wish we would.

  12. Robb Cunningham

    That statement proves my point completely! The LP IS paralyzed by infighting from people who belong in a Think Tank not a Political Party. Principles have to stay intact but we must be willing to show Americans we ARE willing to work with Republicans and Democrats and compromise to get SOMETHING done. Sitting in your closet saying I voted for Liberty and LOST and I DON’T CARE, does NOTHING for America!

  13. Eric Dondero

    I love Wayne. Support him 100%. He’s a friend of mine.

    But interestingly, Sarah Palin was attending Libertarian Party meetings long before Wayne was ever involved with the Party – 2005/06. (There’s indications she may have been involved with the Alaska LP as far back as the middle 1990s – her campaign manager for her Mayoral runs was an Alaska Libertarian.)

  14. Eric Dondero

    On McCain, it’s kind of hard to call someone a “big government conservative,” when they have a lifetime ACU voting score of 82, and an NTU solidly in the 80s.

    A “big government conservative” would be defined as someone in the 50s or 60s on ACU and NTU, not in the 80s.

  15. Jake Witmer

    Sarah Palin did attend 2 LP meetings in Alaska. But so did a lot of Democrats who were socially tolerant but totally statist when it came to economics and the environment.

    Palin was in power. She held the highest seat of power in Alaska. She resigned from that post without:
    1) Interfering with AK and Federal drug laws
    2) Interfering with BATFE enforcement in AK
    3) Meaningfully cutting spending
    4) Meaningfully cutting taxes
    Most damningly, Palin was informed enough about jury rights to sign off on the FIJA.org jury rights day proclamation, AND she was a friend of Frank Turney, one of the few people nationwide to serve jail time for handing out jury rights information on courthouse steps, basically, speaking the truth on public property. But Palin never pardoned Turney. Also, she never fought to overturn the Alaska jury tampering law, never commented on it publicly.

    She did, on the other hand, sign a bill that increased spending on Alaska’s version of socialized medicine.

    Moreover, she has made many public statements that indicate that she is somewhat of a theocrat, thus distancing her from the libertarian viewpoint. In addition to all that, when she showed up to the AK LP meetings (a good thing) she commented that she didn’t understand why the libertarians wanted to legalize marijuana.

    …So much for Sarah Palin.

    McCain is a toxic drug warrior, who took a break from his presidential campaign to campaign for the bank bailouts.

    Also, both McCain and Palin are fans of unlimited government in the domain of military spending on military welfare cases like Eric Dondero, and the US’s wars —for military contract$— without end in the Middle East. They also both support the Federal Reserve system, something that Eric Dondero knows nothing about, and does not comprehend (as of 2004, he had not read anything about the Federal Reserve, and called the people who care about that issue “the lunatic fringe”).

    Eric Dondero and John McCain are openly statist big government scumbags. Sarah Palin is a very uninformed and well-meaning statist Republican who has occasional (but ineffective) libertarian leanings on gun rights and jury rights.

    If someone sat Sarah down, and had a long, long talk with her, she’d be quasi-libertarian. As she stands, she has a statist record.

    Dondero is a pro-war mainstream Republican, not a libertarian. He is also a complete jerk (obviously).

  16. Rick Williams

    Wayne Root has brought energy, commitment, enthusiasm and a strong voice to the freedom message. What more do people want– or expect– from a single individual?

  17. Andy

    “Eric Dondero // Mar 28, 2010 at 11:21 am

    On McCain, it’s kind of hard to call someone a ‘big government conservative,'”

    Well let’s see, John McCain has supported gun control laws, the War on Drugs, the banker bailout, the Patriot Act, the war in Iraq, and these are just a few of the big government positions that McCain has taken over the years. Yep, McCain is definitely a big government Republican.

  18. Andy

    “If someone sat Sarah down, and had a long, long talk with her, she’d be quasi-libertarian. As she stands, she has a statist record.”

    If one could sit down and talk with Sarah Palin and convince her to become a libertarian she’d probably flip back to big government Republican at the slightest provocation. I doubt that she’ll ever have a real commitment to individual liberty.

  19. Andy

    “Eric Dondero // Mar 28, 2010 at 11:17 am

    I love Wayne. Support him 100%. He’s a friend of mine.”

    Uh oh, red flag! Red Flag! This is a reason to be leary of Root.

  20. Aaron Starr

    I have come to a point in my life where I’d rather be one of those people who believes the glass is 95% full, rather than 5% empty.

    I would rather emphasize where there is agreement, as opposed to disagreement.

    I’m interested in making forward progress that impacts the outside world and actually increases the net amount of liberty for everyday people.

  21. anti-W.A.R.

    “Wayne Root has brought energy, commitment, enthusiasm and a strong voice to the freedom message. What more do people want– or expect– from a single individual?”

    How about a consistent libertarian message? 😛

  22. Dear .......and lots of third party types have surely noticed!

    Rick Williams // Mar 28, 2010:
    ” [Bruce] Wayne Root has brought energy, commitment, enthusiasm and a strong voice to the freedom message. [Huh ?????????] What more do people want– or expect– from a single individual?” [May be ethics and honesty and a Libertarian anti war stance with a tad of accounting ($100T fake debt) accumand, well, duh ???????]

  23. Tom Blanton

    Information copied from opensecrets.org (an online database of FEC data on political contributions):

    ROOT, WAYNE
    HENDERSON,NV 89052

    ROOT INTERNATIONAL/CEO

    10/6/06 $1,000 Lieberman, Joe

    My conclusion is that Root is more of a statist warmongering neocon at heart than merely a limited government Reagan-style conservative, neither of which have anything to do with being a libertarian.

    It is not just Root’s financial support of the pro-neocon and big government Democrat Joe Lieberman that exposes Root’s neocon leanings, it is Root’s own writings:

    Solving The Ron Paul Mystery: An Open Letter to Ron Paul & Libertarians
    Monday, July 23, 2007, 08:18 AM

    The truth is that Islamic extremists don’t need much of an excuse to kill. They believe the Koran demands they murder anyone who doesn’t believe in their extreme religious views.

    If America had never interfered in the affairs of any Arab country the Islamic extremists would still be trying to destroy us.

    They hate us because we’re not Islamic.
    They hate us because we’re a Democracy.
    They hate us because we allow dissent.
    They hate us because we treat our women like human beings and equals.
    They hate us because we let young girls go to school.
    They hate us because we believe in progress.
    They hate us because we celebrate music, art, dance, literature, and sexuality.
    They hate us because we believe in equality of races.
    They hate us desperately because we actually allow Jews to survive and thrive in our society.
    They hate us because we don’t murder gays in the street for the ‘crime’ of being gay.

    http://www.millionairerepublican.com/blog/index.php?m=07&y=07&entry=entry070723-081824

  24. Tom Blanton

    Here’s one from Dick Cheney, oops I mean Root:


    The Audacity of Obama’s Lies & Hypocrisy
    Sunday, March 15, 2009, 10:47 PM

    *THE RHETORIC: During the campaign, Obama criticized President Bush for not opening dialogue with our enemies. As President, Obama is willing to open dialogue with terrorists, madmen and murderous regimes such as Iran, Cuba, Syria and the Taliban.

    THE REALITY: Obama will talk to anyone, negotiate with anyone, and compromise with anyone, no matter how vile, no matter how many people they have murdered or threaten to murder, even if their victims are women, children and the elderly. But he won’t open dialogue with Congressional Republicans or Rush Limbaugh. Obama has nothing to say to them.

    *THE RHETORIC: During the campaign, Obama promised Jewish voters that he would always stand by Israel.

    THE REALITY: He has named a steady stream of biased-Palestinian sympathizers and Israel-haters to negotiate Middle East peace- including Charles Freeman, Daniel Kurtzer, and Samatha Power.

    http://www.rootforamerica.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry090324-083151

  25. Andy

    Root is a good communicator and he is getting media coverage, but I think that this party needs somebody who has a deeper understanding of libertarian philosophy and the issues and who markets the Libertarian Party as being something that is not part of the “right wing” and is outside of the phony “left wing vs. right wing” political paradigm. Harry Browne was excellent in this role. It is a shame that he’s no longer with us and nobody has come along since he passed away to replace him.

    Root is convinced that reaching out to Republicans/conservatives is the only way to go and he seems unable to cut his umbilical cord to the Republican Party. I would like to see an LP Chair and Presidential candidate that spends an equal amount of time bashing Republicans and speaking out against their foreign wars of aggression, their support for domestic police state laws like the Patriot Act, their support of torture, their support for the War on Drugs, and for their hypocritical expansions of the welfare state, as this person does bashing Democrats for Obamacare and all of the other anti-liberty things that they cram down our throats.

    I don’t have a problem with Libertarians reaching out to Republicans/conservatives in an of itself, however, I do have a problem with doing this to the point where one ignores or even alienates all of the many potential converts to the libertarian philosophy that are on the left or who are independents or non-voters.

    I have talked politics with literally 10s of thousands of people (more like 100s of thousands), far more people than Root or any other candidate, and I can tell everyone here that focusing only on trying to convert Republicans/conservatives to libertarianism is a big mistake if one does it in a manner that ignores or alienates people on the left and independents and non-voters.

    Marketing oneself as a “Ronald Reagan” Libertarian – as Root does – is a huge turn off to a lot of people, not to mention the fact that it is historically inaccurate since Ronald Reagan was not even remotely libertarian. Going back to 1996 when I discovered Harry Browne and the Libertarian Party while flipping through the channels and landing on C-SPAN if I would have heard Harry Browne proclaiming himself as a “Ronald Reagan” (of course Harry Browne never would have said anything that ridiculous) Libertarian there’s a chance that I would have changed the channel in disgust. Some of my family were Democrats but by that time I’d already come to the realization that the Democratic Party was no good, and I already knew that the Republican Party was no good as well, so I was an independent at that time. Invoking the name of Ronald Reagan would have only served to turn me off to the party. One of the things that I really liked about Harry Browne is that he made it clearly apparent that he was not part of the “right wing” or the “left wing” and that Libertarian was something completely different.

    Ron Paul is obviously tied in with Republicans/conservatives, but he’s done a good job of attracting supporters from across the political spectrum. He did this by taking strong anti-war and anti-police state stances. He didn’t shy away from these issues and just focus on issues where conservatives and libertarians agree (at least in rhetoric since so many “conservatives” are liars and hypocrites) such a cutting taxes & spending and supporting gun rights, he made opposition to the war in Iraq and foreign military imperialism in general as well as opposition to the domestic police state big parts of his campaign. This is what made him stand out from being just another Republican and this is what brought him support from across the political spectrum.

    I’ll do outreach to Republicans/conservatives to persuade them to become libertarians, but I’m not going to contribute to their delusions (such as that Ronald Reagan and Sarah Palin are somehow “libertarian”) or that supporting Republicans (other than Ron Paul Republicans) is going to somehow make us more free (when the opposite of this is true), and I’m not going to do outreach to Republicans/conservatives to the point where I ignore or alienate all of the potential converts to the libertarian philosophy that are on the left or are independents or non-voters.

  26. John L

    Wayne is a Libertarian. Libertarians are like Thomas Jefferson and want the FED GOV to run the army, NASA, post office, and that’s it. If there’s power to be had, keep it with the people in towns and states. The federal government would screw up a wet dream. They screwed up the Mustang Ranch.

  27. Michael H. Wilson

    @ 32 John NASA wasn’t around when Thomas Jefferson was in office. I however have read that when Sally Hemings was around ‘ol Tom’s rocket went off. 😉

  28. Andy

    “*THE RHETORIC: During the campaign, Obama promised Jewish voters that he would always stand by Israel.”

    Why should an American President “always stand by Israel”? Israel is not a part of the USA, it is a foreign government. Where is it a part of the President’s job description to “always stand by Israel”? And out of all of the countries in this world, why Israel? It is not as though Israel is some kind of libertarian paradise. And even if it were a libertarian paradise (which is FAR from reality), it is still not the President’s job to ” always stand by Israel” or any other foreign land. Isn’t the Libertarian way for a President to take a non-interventionist approach to foreign policy? Should Irish Americans call for the President to always stand by Ireland? Should Japanese Americans call for the President to always stand by Japan? For that matter, should Muslim Americans call for the President to always stand by the various countries where Muslims are the majority? I thought that it was the job of the American President to always stand by the US Constitution, not some foreign state.

    “THE REALITY: He has named a steady stream of biased-Palestinian sympathizers and Israel-haters to negotiate Middle East peace- including Charles Freeman, Daniel Kurtzer, and Samatha Power.”

    REALITY: This entire situation is a scam and Obama’s administration (just like Bush’s administration before him) is filled with Zionist Jews in high level positions. Anyone who believes this bullshit is a neo-con or a neo-con ass kisser.

  29. John L

    Wilson….Obama wwent to the one million man march. He thought it was the Thomas Jefferson family reunion.

  30. Tom Blanton

    Social Security wasn’t around in Thomas Jefferson’s time, but Root wants to save it using the libertarian-conservative coalition he is building:


    ROOT Explains the Libertarian-Conservative Coalition to Take Back America from Socialist-in-Chief Obama
    Thursday, August 27, 2009, 05:48 AM

    I believe it will take a third party coalition of Conservatives and free market, limited government Libertarians to take back America. And it’s coming- the latest Pew Poll on politics in America shows that more American voters now identify as Independents than at any time in modern political history. And those independents define themselves as conservative by a margin of 2 to 1 over liberal. A huge majority don’t like or trust big government. A huge majority do not like Obama’s big spending. A recent Gallop Poll shows that conservatives form a majority in all 50 states. This is the Libertarian-Conservative limited government coalition that I plan to build to become the Ross Perot of 2012.

    I wrote my book to re-introduce the principles of Barry Goldwater (and Ronald Reagan) back to the citizens and taxpayers of America.

    Lots of Conservative politicians criticize President Obama. What makes you different?

    Root: I do more than criticize. I provide detailed solutions for cutting government, reducing spending, reducing taxes, reducing entitlements, solving the immigration problem, even saving Social Security. I show American voters how we can eliminate income taxes for one year- I call it “an income tax vacation.” How we can eliminate capital gains taxes for anyone age 55 years or older. How we can eliminate capital gains taxes on small businesses. How we can form a union to counteract Obama and support small business owners and taxpayers- The PSTA (Private Sector Taxpayers of America). My plan calls for the banning of all bailouts and earmarks. And dramatically reducing spending on foreign aid. I explain how we can control the border and end illegal immigration, yet encourage millions of educated, skilled upper middle class immigrants with assets of $250,000 or more, to move to America- thereby ending our foreclosure crisis, housing crisis, Social Security crisis, and national debt crisis, all at once, as well as create millions of new jobs.

    I explain how we can end affirmative action, reform Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, and dramatically improve education results with school choice, vouchers, performance bonuses and encouraging alternative education like charter schools and home-schooling (I should know- I’m a home-school dad).

    http://www.rootforamerica.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry090827-054856

  31. David F. Nolan

    I think Wayne Root sincerely believes that some sort of hybrid libertarian conservatism offers the best hope for positive change in America. He has stated openly, as recently as last month, that he believes our best prospects are “on the right,” and that the LP should focus on recruiting disgruntled conservatives. He’s about 80% libertarian on economic issues, and maybe 60-70% on social issues.

    He’s pretty much overtly Zionist, and is thus far more interventionist in his foreign policy views than most “pure” libertarians. I wish he’d run for U.S. Senate in Nevada this year, both because I think he’d have done well in % vote, and because the campaign would have forced him to clearly differentiate him from both Harry Reid and whomever the GOP nominates.

    Unfortunately, Root has made it clear that defeating Reid is his top priority. Which would be fine if he were running for chair of the REPUBLICAN party… but the notion that a chair of the LIBERTARIAN party should be working to help Republicans defeat Democrats is unacceptable to me – and to many, many other Libertarians.

  32. Andy

    “He’s pretty much overtly Zionist, and is thus far more interventionist in his foreign policy views than most ‘pure’ libertarians. I wish he’d run for U.S. Senate in Nevada this year, both because I think he’d have done well in % vote, and because the campaign would have forced him to clearly differentiate him from both Harry Reid and whomever the GOP nominates.”

    If Root does not really favor a non-interventionist foreign policy then they only way I could support him as a Libertarian Party candidate would be if he were to run for a state or local office where his foreign policy views don’t matter.

    “Unfortunately, Root has made it clear that defeating Reid is his top priority. Which would be fine if he were running for chair of the REPUBLICAN party… but the notion that a chair of the LIBERTARIAN party should be working to help Republicans defeat Democrats is unacceptable to me – and to many, many other Libertarians.”

    The only way that I could see justification for an LP Chair or a candidate for LP Chair advocate that the Libertarian Party not run a candidate against an incumbent Democrat Senator would be if there were a truly libertarian Republican (ie-not by Dondero’s definition of “libertarian) in the race. I don’t think that there is going to be a real libertarian Republican running against Harry Reid, so I see no reason for any libertarian to advocate that the Libertarian Party not run a candidate for US Senate in Nevada. In fact, I’ll go so far as saying that it is actually bad for the the party to advocate this. History has proven over and over again that it makes no difference to replace a big government Democrat with a big government Republican. The Libertarian Party should have a candidate in this race even if that candidate stands little chance of winning so at least some people can be exposed to some actual Libertarian views and that those who agree with those views have somebody to vote for in November.

  33. JT

    Andy: “One of the things that I really liked about Harry Browne is that he made it clearly apparent that he was not part of the “right wing” or the “left wing” and that Libertarian was something completely different.”

    Very true. Thousands of people came into the LP because of Harry Browne and how he presented libertarian ideas. He knew that libertarianism had much to offer people on both the right and the left, as well as people who don’t align themselves with either side. And Ron Paul’s enthusiastic following would likely dwindle if he started only talking about issues that only appeal to conservatives or liberals.

    Out of curiosity, how have you reached hundreds of thousands of people? There’s no way you’ve done that in one-on-one conversations. Have you been on radio or TV much?

  34. Andy

    “Out of curiosity, how have you reached hundreds of thousands of people? There’s no way you’ve done that in one-on-one conversations.”

    Yes, I have done this in one-on-one conversations. I’ve done the majority of it by gathering petition signatures and voter registrations for almost 10 years. I’ve done this in 26 states plus DC, and yes, I’ve talked to thousands upon thousands of people.

    Given my expierence in talking to literally thousands of people and convincing them to sign petitions and/or to register to vote, I think that I’ve got a better feel for the “pulse of America” than Root or just about anyone else.

    “Have you been on radio or TV much?”

    I’ve called in to some talk radio shows and I’ve been on TV at least a couple of times, but most of my expierence has been in talking to people one-on-one.

  35. Kansas Sniper

    Wayne Root is a Republican, war monger, neo-conservative, interventionist, statist, opposed to real free markets, and a poser as a small business man. Sure, he isn’t tall but he’s filling out fast.

    Aaron Starr is a neo-conservative, war monger, interventionist, statist, opposed to real free markets, and a Republican in LP clothing. So is Bob Barr, so is Bill Redpath.

    If the Libertarian party wants to convince voters that it stands for anything, it should get back to its fundamentals. Peace. Radically smaller government. No drug war. No war on terror. An end to the identity state. An end to all corporate welfare.

    But we all know that the LP in the hands of slimy Republicans like Starr and Redpath and Root won’t ever do anything of the sort. Having power is all they care about, even if that means destroying the Libertarian party. Such people should, at a minimum, be ostracized by everyone else. Spit at the ground when they walk by. Boo and hiss when they speak.

  36. Gary Chartier

    The post office? What about Lysander Spooner’s American Letter Mail Company. NASA? What’s to keep space exploration from being privately funded and managed.

  37. Dear .......and lots of third party types have surely noticed!

    and Don Lake [and other non Libs] have complained for DECADES about the
    stumbling, bumbling ineptitude of NASA!

    This includes the NASA murders of 1967,
    1986 and 2002! Any one ever read an
    anti NASA article in a Lib rag from a non
    Lib (or any one, really) ???????????

    I do not think these guys know an ally
    when they present them selves knocking
    at the door …………. Lake

  38. Marc Montoni

    Granted, Root is getting a lot (relatively speaking) of ‘free’ media. Barr did also. However, both have failed to translate their media into new donors, or even new inquiries.

    In every past LP presidential campaign, every time our candidate won a major media appearance, often hundreds (or thousands) calls (and emails, and letters) would flood into the national office during or shortly after the program, requesting more information. A substantial percentage of these new inquiries would subsequently join & donate.

    That’s no longer happening. The Barr campaign failed to generate much in the way of new inquiries; in fact LP membership began falling as of November 2008 — which was very unusual for an LP presidential campaign (most past campaigns had generated months-long ‘bumps’ in membership growth, often inching membership up by 3,000 or more).

    Root, for all of the attention he’s getting from the lamestream media, has not been able to translate that success into commensurate numbers of new adherents, either.

    I’ve signed up at least 30 state and/or national members since January 1, and I’m not getting any free media. And those I am signing up are not indicating they found us due to any interviews of Root.

    Then there is always the question of what, exactly, a person would be signing up *for* if he signed up because of Root.

    Would that person join the LP because Root spoke of our consistent opposition to foreign aid regardless of what country or group is getting it? Or our support of repealing the Prohibitions against psychoactive substances, gambling, and sex for hire? Or our support for noninterventionism, bringing home and demobilizing the military, keeping only token forces to protect the borders, skies, and waterways free of foreign incursion? Or our support for ending welfare, both corporate and individual? Or our support for ending all government meddling in marriage, an end to all sodomy laws, and other personal issues? Or our support for repealing the income tax and most other taxes, and replacing them with nothing?

    Or would that person join the LP because Root spoke about the fact that Obama is a socialist, or maybe because he proposed ‘lower’ taxes, ‘less’ government, a ‘better-run’ war effort, ‘less’ regulation… oh, and specifically less regulation of gambling?

  39. Robb Cunningham

    I would like to back up and say anybody criticizing someone leaning Republican who has tried to be Democrat unsuccessfully then started their own Party and then got kicked out of their own Party to return to the Libertarian Party is a bit thick! Thank You Tom Knapp for your “facts”!

  40. Thomas L. Knapp

    Robb,

    If you want to talk about “facts,” then perhaps you should gather some first.

    If you did that, you’d know that I’ve never been “kicked out of” the Boston Tea Party, and that I didn’t “return to” the Libertarian Party from it (at no time during the existence of the Boston Tea Party have I not been a member of the LP).

    If you’re too busy to gather facts before commenting on facts, you might at least read the front page of your own web site and see how the things you have to say square with Rootism.

  41. JT

    Andy: “I’ve done the majority of it by gathering petition signatures and voter registrations for almost 10 years. I’ve done this in 26 states plus DC, and yes, I’ve talked to thousands upon thousands of people. ”

    That you’ve gathered petition sigs and voter regs for 10 years is great. If you’ve had political discussions with thousands of people, that’s great too. It’s not possible that you’ve have political discussions with hundreds of thousands though, sorry. Despite my sizable disagreement with Wayne Root, he’s reached far more people than you have with one national TV appearance. That’s the reason why it’s so important for the LP to have a national chair and presidential nominee who constantly promotes the party and represents it well.

  42. Tom Blanton


    Despite my sizable disagreement with Wayne Root, he’s reached far more people than you have with one national TV appearance. That’s the reason why it’s so important for the LP to have a national chair and presidential nominee who constantly promotes the party and represents it well.

    If representing the LP well consists of bashing Obama, using double standards to do so, and reaching a large audience, then the LP has no better friend than Rush Limbaugh. In fact, Root says he agrees with Limbaugh on economic issues.

  43. JT

    Uh, my comment wasn’t an endorsement of Wayne Root for national chair or presidential nominee, Tom. But I did acknowledge that he’s addressed far more people via radio and television than anyone in the LP today. That’s just a fact.

  44. David F. Nolan

    As several people have already noted, the issue with Root is not his ability to get in front of a camera, or behind a microphone – it’s what he says when he’s there. And so far, his version of libertarianism is actually a mix of libertarian and conservative ideas and positions. I admire Wayne’s energy and enthusiasm, but until he distances himself further from the Republicans, I don’t want to see him as the party’s official spokesman.

  45. Solomon Drek

    All this discussion reinforces my decision to quit the LP years ago. It’s pretty obvious from these posts that most LPers, including Wayne Root, belong with Eric Dondero and the rest of the paleoconservatives in the Republican Liberty Caucus.

    The apparent willingness of so many self-described Libertarians to hitch their political fortunes to a rightwing political snake-oil salesman, and to even have a debate over how far the LP needs to associate with reactionary politicians like Sarah Palin, is itself indicative of how low the Party of Principle has descended to become the Party of Expediency.

    I’ll give Ron Paul credit. While Wayne Root was deciding on a strategy for turning the LP into a marketing tool for promoting his own career, Paul was decisively outspoken, more so than most Democrats, in opposing foreign wars and the Patriot Act, while at the same time taking on the Federal Reserve System. The irony is that by emphasizing these issues Paul has attracted support from both sides of the political spectrum, and has shown he is not afraid to take on the reactionary wing of the GOP, something which so far Root has failed to do.

  46. Robert Capozzi

    sd, how is it “obvious”? What “paleoconservatism” are you seeing on this thread that I’m not seeing? And what leads you to believe that “most LPers” should be in the RLC?

  47. tom jeffers

    Wayne supported McCain. Show me this. Lies. He has grown some since I have watched him.

  48. Thomas L. Knapp

    Mr. Jeffers,

    You write:

    “Wayne Supported McCain??? Show me this”

    Already did, but here it is again.

    Root endorsed the nomination of a McCain-Lieberman ticket for the 2008 presidential election.

    Root later lied about it.

    Those are irrefutably proven facts. Unless someone who wishes they weren’t irrefutably proven facts comes across a time machine, they’ll remain irrefutably proven facts forever.

  49. AroundtheblockAFT

    When Root speaks, does he urge listeners to “google the LP website and consider joining us?” As someone up thread mentioned, it should be easy to see a measurable upsurge in interest everytime Root has a large audience. It always happens when the convention is on C-span.
    Even local appearances should matter. If Root is on a radio show in Cheyenne, and seven inquires come in from Wyoming when a good day sees only one, then he’s getting the word out.

  50. Andy

    “Solomon Drek // Mar 29, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    All this discussion reinforces my decision to quit the LP years ago. It’s pretty obvious from these posts that most LPers, including Wayne Root, belong with Eric Dondero and the rest of the paleoconservatives in the Republican Liberty Caucus.”

    Paleoconservatives favor a non-interventionist foreign policy, so the people you mentioned would fit in better with neo-conservatives.

  51. Dear .......and lots of third party types have surely noticed!

    Missouri’s Thomas Knapp and Mister Jeffers (of the Kansas City, Ruskin High School, UMKC Jeffers ?????????)

    sure reminds me of ‘arguing with Cody Quirk and Donald Grundmann and Bruce Cohen’!

    Just because one person or group is allergic to the truth does not mean the entire planet is!

    I just wish the Knappster would get on Steve ‘Goofy Behavior and Douffy photo graph’ Kubby and George ‘LP as solo Peace Party’ Phillies!

    Don ‘I hate liars, and thus the Dems and GOP’ Lake

  52. Bruce Cohen

    If you watch the video, Wayne explicitly denies endorsing McCain.

    If you know about the matter, you find that in a discussion of hypothetical political chess, Wayne said it would likely be a good strategy for Republicans to try a certain combination ticket.

    No endorsement.

    Video must be watched.

  53. JT

    aroundtheblock: “When Root speaks, does he urge listeners to “Google the LP website and consider joining us?””

    No need to say “Google it”. Smile and say “Go to lp.org and join us”. Say “Libertarian Party” over and over again. Mention the large slate of Libertarian candidates at both the national and state levels. Talk about how the Ds and Rs are essentially the same to differentiate the LP. Those are things he (and anyone else who wants to be national chair or presidential nominee) should be doing relentlessly. Repetition is crucial to successful marketing.

  54. Robert Capozzi

    Yes, repetition is crucial. But not to the exclusion of being an interesting guest. Too much repetition of “join the LP” is boring, which leads to fewer invites, meaning LESS repetition.

  55. Thomas L. Knapp

    Bruce,

    You write:

    “If you watch the video, Wayne explicitly denies endorsing McCain.”

    Correct. That’s the “then he publicly, flagrantly lied about it” part.

    “If you know about the matter, you find that in a discussion of hypothetical political chess, Wayne said it would likely be a good strategy for Republicans to try a certain combination ticket.”

    If you read what Wayne actually wrote, he enthusiatically endorsed a McCain/Lieberman ticket “as a loyal Republican” and for “my beloved Republican Party.”

    There’s no talking his way out of this one. He clearly and irrefutably endorsed McCain/Lieberman, and then he clearly, irrefutably and publicly lied about having done so.

  56. OH brother

    @70
    If he feel soooo strongly about McInsane he would still be in the Repulican party. DUH. It doesn’t take an idiot to figure that out.

  57. Root Is a Closet Republican

    If he feel soooo strongly about McInsane he would still be in the Repulican party.

    Not necessarily.

    McCain/Lieberman may still Root’s personal views.

    But when Root decided to run for office himself, he saw the LP as the low-hanging fruit. So he switched to the LP not for ideology, but expediency.

  58. JT

    Are you hands broke: “JT why don’t you email Root yourself and ask him then.”

    Is that it? He just hasn’t been asked to promote the LP more than himself?

    I think your brain is broke.

  59. JT

    Robert: “Yes, repetition is crucial. But not to the exclusion of being an interesting guest. Too much repetition of “join the LP” is boring, which leads to fewer invites, meaning LESS repetition.”

    Well, I didn’t mean that he should repeat “Join the LP” or “Libertarian Party” like a robot every 10 seconds. I meant he should do such things in every single interview or speech–and more than once if he can talk for more than a few minutes. Harry Browne did it, and he was a repeat guest on many radio and television shows. There are many ways you can mention the party given the opportunity to do so. But first you have to be thinking about the party and not only yourself.

  60. Thomas L. Knapp

    Oh Brother,

    You write:

    “If he feel soooo strongly about McInsane he would still be in the Repulican party.”

    Maybe, maybe not. You seem to be arguing with something I haven’t claimed, namely that Root still thinks McCain/Lieberman are the best thing since sliced bread. I’m more than willing to stipulate that he changed his mind about that at some point.

    And, to be fair, I’m not the one who brought Root’s endorsement of McCain/Lieberman up in this thread. I’m just pointing out that those who denied the endorsement once it WAS brought up are either a) ignorant of the facts, or b) lying.

    The facts remain:

    Root enthusiastically endorsed a McCain/Lieberman GOP ticket; and

    When asked about that endorsement later, Root flat-out lied about it.

    Personally I’m less concerned about the endorsement than I am about the lie.

    The endorsement is something he may have changed his mind about. Most of us came from “somewhere else,” after all.

    The lie, though … in my experience, someone who tells a no-shit, balls-out, flatly false whopper of a lie at the drop of a hat even when he has to know he’ll almost certainly be called on it tends to be someone who turns out to do so habitually, not just that one time.

  61. David F. Nolan

    I’d bet that if Tom knew of documented instances of Phillies or Kubby lying, he’d reveal them. At the very least, he would not deny the evidence if someone else revealed such instances. Phillies’ assertion that the LP is “the only antiwar party” is more a matter of definition than anything else. As for Kubby’s photo being “goofy,” that’s simply an opinion.

  62. Thomas L. Knapp

    Mr. Lake,

    If you believe that Mr. Kubby or Mr. Phillies have, at one time or another, lied — especially in the way which Root did over this McCain/Lieberman endorsement thing — please feel free to present your evidence.

    I’ve certainly had differences of opinion with both of them before, and have not been shy about discussing those differences of opinion.

    I agree with Mr. Phillies that the the libertarian parties are the only genuine peace parties. He disagrees with me, I suspect, on whether the other libertarian party in the US (the Boston Tea Party) rates the designation of political party per se.

  63. Dear .......and lots of third party types have surely noticed!

    Thomas L. Knapp // Mar 29, 2010:
    “I agree with Mr. Phillies that the the libertarian parties are the only genuine peace parties …………..”

    You are literally insane and beaming the from the mother ship ………… and beyond help!

    EVERY ONE save a hand full of GOP beltway neocons, loose cannon nut cases like WAR and a mere cabal of semi sane independents were inveritably anti war, and most MUCH MORE than LP. I did not know that you were that gone. I suspected it of Phillies years ago; I held out hope for you! How sad! Lake

  64. Stop the Wining

    JT if you don’t want to write to Wayne and ask him youself, maybe you should just shut up and stop with the Blah Blah Blah. Either go ask him or shut up.

  65. George Phillies

    @81

    You’re right, the Libertarian Parties are both staunch opponents of the wars. In contrast, the Democratic President promised as a candidate to expand the Marine Corps and Army so he could fight a larger war in Afghanistan.

    @83
    (8^))
    Wining? If you object that we take a glass of fine California or Washington or wherever in America burgundy or muscat or — if I could ever find it again — California tokay with dinner, that is your misfortune.

  66. Dear .......and lots of third party types have surely noticed!

    Verilant anti war parties:

    Communistic Party USA
    the reform movement
    some Dems …………
    Bible Beaters/ Constitutionalist
    Green and Greenish
    Socialist Parties /California PFP
    Conservative Party
    Veterans Party/ veterans groups
    some GOP
    and on and one and on ……………

    George Phillies was a know it all jerk [and liar] in 2008 and still maintains that status [Lake]

  67. Thomas L. Knapp

    Don,

    Note that I used the word “genuine.”

    Yes, every party is a “peace party” when it’s another party behind a war, or when the war in question doesn’t fit their particular agenda.

    But you can’t really be anti-war unless your ideology correctly addresses the root causes of war. And if you’re not a libertarian, your ideology doesn’t do that.

    QED, the libertarian parties are the only genuinely anti-war, as opposed to anti-this-war or anti-that-war, parties.

  68. Root Lies Like Clinton

    Root’s “ballsy” lying reminds me of Clinton.

    Like Clinton, Root seems incapable of saying “I was wrong” or “I’m sorry.” I can see Root shaking his finger at delegates, looking them in the eyes and saying “I never had sex/endorsed with that woman/McCain.”

    Root’s ego is too big to ever admit a mistake. He basks in the glow of his own imagined greatness, which he never tires telling people about.

    The more media attention Root gets, the worse for the LP. Root is the embarrassing crazy uncle one locks in the attic when guests come over.

    Unfortunately, some people want the crazy uncle to be the LP’s spokesperson.

  69. Brian Holtz

    So according to Tom Knapp, a party is not genuinely anti-war if it’s not libertarian, and Bob Barr advocates “government distribution of child porn on demand”, and Wayne Root lied about endorsing somebody or other.

    I was going to fact-check the latter of these three claims, but Tom has cried “wolf” one too many times now. I used to be mildly interested in what new way Tom can find to twist some piece of evidence into a “strictly accurate” assertion that invites readers to believe things that differ significantly from what is actually the case.

    Now, not so much.

  70. Dear .......and lots of third party types have surely noticed!

    Phillies Lies Like Clinton // Mar 30, 2010:

    Phillies “ballsy” lying reminds me of Clinton.

    Like Clinton, Phillies seems incapable of saying “I was wrong” or “I’m sorry.” I can see Phillies shaking his finger at delegates, looking them in the eyes and saying “I never had sex/claimed that Libs are the only Peace Party ……… with that woman/in spite of all the other anti war parties.”

    Phillies’ ego is too big to ever admit a mistake. He basks in the glow of his own imagined greatness, which he never tires telling people about.

    The more media attention Phillies gets, the worse for the LP. Phillies is the embarrassing crazy uncle one locks in the attic when guests come over.

    Unfortunately, some people want this crazy uncle to be the LP’s spokesperson ……… Lake

  71. Dear .......oops!

    David F. Nolan // Mar 29, 2010:
    “I’d bet that if Tom knew of documented instances of Phillies or Kubby lying, he’d reveal them …….”

    You are floating on denial, Davy ………. How sad!

  72. Thomas L. Knapp

    Brian,

    While you’re at it, why don’t you screw your eyes shut, put your fingers in your ears, and scream “dontwannhearitdontwannahearitdontwannahearit.”

    That might or might not improve the quality of your argument (sic), but it certainly couldn’t hurt it. Epic fail, dude.

  73. Dear .......oops!

    Thomas L. Knapp // Mar 30, 2010:
    While you’re at it, why don’t you screw your eyes shut, put your fingers in your ears, and scream
    “dontwannhearit
    dontwannahearit
    dontwannahearit.”
    That might or might not improve the quality of your twisted logic, but it certainly couldn’t hurt it. Epic fail, dude epic ……….. Lake, former fan

  74. Kimberly Wilder

    I would guess that Sarah Palin and her designer wardrobe have been to a lot of tea parties…you know, the kind where you raise your pinky finger and trade stock tips…

  75. John L

    It’s not about Wayne Root, it’s all about you, and the folks. The tea party is about, well, ah, the tea party people. The tea party is not an official political party. So, if you want to bitch about some leader, join a group that has one.

  76. John L

    what am I missing here? The tea party is about the tea party people. OK, at Searchlight, they cheer and applaud for Wayne and Sarah and then go back to the RV for a game of gin rummy. Is that about it?

  77. JT

    #83: “JT if you don’t want to write to Wayne and ask him youself, maybe you should just shut up and stop with the Blah Blah Blah. Either go ask him or shut up.”

    First, ask him WHAT???

    Second, no. I’d love to meet you so I can shut you up though (verbally).

  78. paulie

    That you’ve gathered petition sigs and voter regs for 10 years is great. If you’ve had political discussions with thousands of people, that’s great too. It’s not possible that you’ve have political discussions with hundreds of thousands though, sorry. Despite my sizable disagreement with Wayne Root, he’s reached far more people than you have with one national TV appearance. That’s the reason why it’s so important for the LP to have a national chair and presidential nominee who constantly promotes the party and represents it well.

    Yes, it is certainly possible to have talked to over a hundred thousand people in that time.

    We frequently talk to over a thousand people a day, and have at least short conversations about issues with over a hundred of those. Multiply that by about 200-300 days a year, that might be say 30,000 people a year. Now multiply that by 10 or 12 years. If you exclude the people that we spent less than 5 minutes talking to, it could still be in the neighborhood of 100,000 people one on one over ten years.

  79. Brian Holtz

    Tom, I explicitly offered no argument about your claim, and instead gave an argument about why your credibility with me has gotten too low for me to bother. You didn’t engage that argument at all.

    There are plenty of other radical Root critics with enough credibility that I’d be willing to fact-check a claim of theirs that Root demonstrably lied: Paulie Cannoli. Chuck Moulton. Steve Kubby. David Nolan. Less Antman. Starchild. Susan Hogarth. Dan Sullivan. Gary Chartier. John Buttrick.

    But after the episodes I mention above, Tom, you’re no longer on that list. Sorry.

  80. What are you really doing

    For all you people who insults Wayne, I don’t see you on National TV talking even remotely about promoting the LP party. NADA. You are just sitting on your lazy butts insulting someone on this blog. When you get on National TV then you can talk. In the meantime, go get your baby bottle and sit in a corner.

  81. paulie

    There are plenty of other radical Root critics with enough credibility that I’d be willing to fact-check a claim of theirs that Root demonstrably lied: Paulie Cannoli. Chuck Moulton. Steve Kubby. David Nolan. Less Antman. Starchild. Susan Hogarth. Dan Sullivan. Gary Chartier. John Buttrick.

    I’m not aware of any case of Wayne demonstrably lying.

    I’m glad he is getting a lot of media. I like his energy and enthusiasm.

    I also agree with many of the criticisms of his messaging/branding. I also agree with the people who said he should mention the party and website more in interviews.

    I’ve frequently said in IPR comments and on radical lists that the radicals need someone(s) who do as much outreach/media as Wayne, and that any time spent attacking Wayne would be better spent in lining up interviews, writing letters to the editor and op-ed columns, booking speeches to local organizations, attending public events with a visible LP presence, knocking on doors in your neighborhood, etc, etc.

    I think you are on some of those lists. If not, ask the other people you named above.

    In fact I have actually resigned from at least one of those lists because of its relentless focus on negativity.

    I am in no way claiming to be holier than thou in this regard, I have a bad temper and (especially in the past, and sometimes still to this day) have gone off on people and gone into attack mode. However, I have also realized in the last 2-3 years that it is tremendously counterproductive and that the infighting is a huge waste of energy that is better spent on outreach.

    I am making a conscious attempt to cut down on the percentage of my political energy spent on infighting and to make my criticisms civil. I hope everyone else does so as well.

    I don’t know whether that makes me a radical Root critic or not. I am not supporting Wayne for national chair or president (unless he becomes much more left/right balanced by 2012) but I would be glad if he ran for lower office such as mayor, state legislature, or even US Senate or Governor.

  82. Dear .......oops!

    Root’s Ego // Mar 30, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Hi, Bruce Cohen!

    “Enjoy being Root’s lapdog?”

    Lake: Israel First Jewish Nazis!

    Birds of a feather fuck together!

    Remember the USS Liberty!

  83. James Oaksun

    the [radicals] need someone(s) who do as much outreach/media as Wayne, and that any time spent attacking Wayne would be better spent in lining up interviews, writing letters to the editor and op-ed columns, booking speeches to local organizations, attending public events with a visible LP presence, knocking on doors in your neighborhood, etc, etc.

    Agree 1 billion percent.

    If you think “an” idea is a “bad” idea, but offer no alternative, put energy toward no different outcome, then the “bad” idea will win, every time.

    I think Wayne’s diagnosis re marketing/branding is spot on, but disagree with his prescription. But hey — credit where it’s due, I wasn’t on Larry King last night. That’s a great “get” to get. Fox News and Newsmax though, IMO, hurt the brand more than they help it.

    But that’s my opinion. It’s then incumbent on me and others, through our strategy, through our actions, to show an alternative, and why that alternative is superior. I am pleased to say that process is now underway.

  84. JT

    #99: “The post you forgot you wrote on #67. HAAA HAAA.

    What a twit”

    I didn’t “forget” anything I wrote. You mean that I should e-mail Root asking him to talk about the LP? Your think that’s the reason why he focuses on himself and bashing Democrats …because nobody asked him yet to focus on the LP? He just doesn’t know that’s something he should do because nobody has e-mailed him about it? Are you a deranged human being?

    I’ll let everyone else read my posts and read yours and decide for themselves who the twit is.

  85. JT

    #101: “For all you people who insults Wayne, I don’t see you on National TV talking even remotely about promoting the LP party.”

    First, it’s not the LP party, twit. LP stands for Libertarian Party. Second, he’s NOT promoting the LP on TV. He’s promoting himself, his book, and conservatives as preferable to liberals.

  86. JT

    Paulie @ 98: Yes, that’s mathematically possible with the numbers you gave. That’s not hundreds of thousands though. It’s also not nearly as much as someone who’s on national television, nor does it give the speaker a perception of credibility that being on national television does.

  87. John L

    two main elements of politics: look good and talk good on TV. If you disagree with anybody, get on Fox News and talk about it. If you’re lucky, you can tangle with Ann Coulter. ( put on a good suit, armor )

  88. Andy

    JT said: “That you’ve gathered petition sigs and voter regs for 10 years is great. If you’ve had political discussions with thousands of people, that’s great too. It’s not possible that you’ve have political discussions with hundreds of thousands though, sorry. Despite my sizable disagreement with Wayne Root, he’s reached far more people than you have with one national TV appearance. That’s the reason why it’s so important for the LP to have a national chair and presidential nominee who constantly promotes the party and represents it well.”

    “JT // Mar 30, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Paulie @ 98: Yes, that’s mathematically possible with the numbers you gave. That’s not hundreds of thousands though. It’s also not nearly as much as someone who’s on national television, nor does it give the speaker a perception of credibility that being on national television does.”

    I used to keep track of how many people I had gotten to sign petitions. I lost count 8 years ago after I got 20,000 plus signers. That was over 8 years ago. I certainly could have gotten 100,000 signers since then. I remember back in 2003 I got 10,000 signatures on the Recall Grey Davis petition in California. In 2008 in Pennsylvania I got 5,000 signatures for Libertarian Party ballot access (and could have gotten quite a bit more than that if I had remained in that state longer). These are just two examples and together they combine to 15,000 people. 100,000 signers in almost 10 years is quite doable. In fact, I’ve probably surpassed 100,000 signers.

    And this does not even include the people whom I’ve spoken to who did not sign. Sometimes you can get 1 out of 5 people to sign. Sometimes you get 1 out of 10 people to sign. Sometimes it is 1 out of 20. Sometimes it is 1 out of 50. And so on and so forth. If you factor in all of the people whom I’ve spoken to and who declined to sign the numbers go way up.

    I’ve worked in 26 states plus Washington DC (and I’ve worked on multiple occassions in 14 of these places). I have spoken to every type of person imaginable. So like I said before, I think that I’ve got a really good feel for the “pulse of America” so to speak.

    Since we are talking about how many people with whom I’ve talked about politics, this number gets even higher when you add in all of the people whom I’ve had political discussions with when I was not in the context of gathering petition signatures and voter registrations.

    Do you have any idea how many times I’ve had to clear up people’s misconceptions about what a Libertarian is? Numerous times. I’ve encountered every type of misconception about what a Libertarian is that you can think of, but one of the ones you most often hear is that Libertarians are “right wingers” or that Libertarians are like Republicans. I’m not saying that this is the only misconception about what a Libertarian is that is out there, but it does not help to clear up this particular common misconception about Libertarians when you’ve got Wayne Root running around calling himself a “Ronald Reagan Libertarian” (which sounds like an oxymoron to me) and saying that Libertarians should only focus on reaching out to Republicans/conservatives.

    Now obviously a lot more people are going to see/hear Wayne Root if he’s on TV or on the radio, and Wayne has had a lot of TV and radio appearances, so yes, more people have heard him talk politics than have heard me. However, an important think to take into consideration is that most of the people who have heard Wayne talk about politics were not able to speak to him. The majority of people who have heard Wayne talk about politics merely heard him pontificating on the TV or radio. Almost everyone who has talked politics with me has been in a situation where they could talk back to me, so therefore I’d say that I’ve had more political conversations with far more people than Wayne has (or probably any other candidate). Also, I don’t just target “right wingers” on Fox News or conservative talk radio like Wayne does, I talk to EVERYONE. I have talked politics with numerous leftists, independents, and non-voters, and yes I have spoken to numerous conservatives as well. Wayne mostly talks to conservatives. I have worked on 57 college campuses across the country and while there are some Republicans/conservatives on college campuses, these are places where there tend to be a lot more leftists/Democrats/”liberals” as well as independents and non-voters. I’ve worked on many ballot initiatives petitions that appeal to conservatives, but I’ve worked on many peoples that appeal more to people on the left such as marijuana legalization petitions which I have worked on in 10 states.

    I think that focusing solely on Republicans/conservatives for Libertarian Party outreach ignores – and in some cases even alienates – a huge amount of people who are open to the Libertarian message that are on the left or who are independents or non-voters. Wayne Root has said that he believes that the primary outreach focus for the Libertarian Party should be disgruntled Republicans/conservatives. I say reach out to these people, but don’t do so at the peril of ignoring or alienating the rest of the political spectrum.

  89. Thomas L. Knapp

    Brian,

    You write:

    “Tom, I explicitly offered no argument about your claim, and instead gave an argument about why your credibility with me has gotten too low for me to bother. You didn’t engage that argument at all.”

    You didn’t offer an argument about my claim because you know there’s no argument to offer about my claim. My claim is true, and proven.

    Nor did you offer an “argument” about my credibility — you just flung some undifferentiated pooh and hoped nobody would notice that it didn’t stick.

    Why would I be interested in “engaging” that? I’m a dedicated follower of one of the oldest rules in politics: “When your opponent is repeatedly stomping on his own crank … let him!”

  90. Brian Holtz

    you know there’s no argument to offer about my claim

    Making false claims about what I “know” isn’t going to win back any of the credibility you’ve chosen to spend. Somebody else will have to evaluate this particular cry of “wolf” before I invest any of my time forming an opinion either way. Fool me once…

  91. Narrow minded

    JT it is obivious your too stupid to comprehend anything, so I’m done addressing you.

  92. Dear .......oops!

    “I remember back in 2003 I got 10,000 signatures on the Recall Grey Davis petition in California. ” ???????????????

    I literally criss crossed the state on the Dump Davis cause in 2003. I some times ended up sleeping in the back of my peak cup truck.

    BEFORE the official recall, Citizens For A Better Veterans Home, over the 2002 Winter Holidays, in Southern California, prior to his January First 2003, shadowed Davis and his big ugly CHP honor guard thugs.

    There were three state wide public anti Davis rallies. At the Sacramento state house I was the lead speaker at the first event. Oh, wait, as DVD records show, I was the one and only Californian [of 36M] used a kick off and warm up for ALL THREE RALLIES!

    Did you ever visit the Sal Russo offices near the capitol ????? I did not collect 10K signatures. How ever, I also never met or heard of you!

    Edward Tessier (sp), Richard Rider, Bruce Cohen, Kubby, Root, Phillies, now spin master Knapp, you Libertarians are soooooo full of crap that fertilizer production is affected!

    You may not be an out and out Dump Davis liar, but the suspicion is sure there! You third party puuks are such flakes! I have never ever been recruited by a third party snot whom did not desert the same organization after wards!

    Lake, former Thomas Knapp fan

  93. paulie

    paulie on the Dump Davis trail ??????

    Why yes, I was. Thanks for asking.

    Most of the signatures were gathered by full-time petitioners like Andy and me who were subcontractors (several levels down in most cases, although my connection was more direct than most). There is no reason for you to have ever heard of us. I did not go to any campaign offices; I handed in my signatures to my business partner, who shipped them to the Bader office which had the statewide contract on the anti-Davis paid petition drive.

    Knowing Andy as I have for several years now, 10k on the recall sounds very plausible, and I have never, ever known him to lie about his numbers (or anything else for that matter).

  94. paulie

    Dear “narrow minded” person,

    JT it is obivious your too stupid to comprehend anything, so I’m done addressing you.

    JT sounds intelligent to me.

  95. paulie

    Paulie @ 98: Yes, that’s mathematically possible with the numbers you gave. That’s not hundreds of thousands though. It’s also not nearly as much as someone who’s on national television, nor does it give the speaker a perception of credibility that being on national television does.

    That depends on what you consider a conversation. If you count everyone I have said something political to who replied to me however briefly, it could be over a million. It may be over a hundred thousand if you only count 5 minutes of back and forth or more. I’m sure I’m less credible than someone on TV to many, but I think actual in-person conversation with both sides able to speak reaches people more so than flipping channels to (or through) some suit on TV.

    I’ve done some TV too, even with a suit on sometimes, but only local, not national. Kudos to those who do it sucessfully.

  96. paulie

    First, it’s not the LP party, twit. LP stands for Libertarian Party.

    And you can take that to the ATM machine.

    😛

  97. Dear .......oops!

    automatic transfer machine machine …………

    paulie // Mar 30, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    paulie on the Dump Davis trail ??????

    “Why yes, I was ……….”

    As disappointed as I am in Der Arnold,
    Gray Davis had to go, thank you paulie
    and Andy What His Name ………. Lake

  98. John L

    if you don’t like Wayne Root ….I understand. Politics is all about like -ability or lack thereof. Yet, maybe, not being liked in certain circles could be a good thing. Some what similiar to the Sarah Palin thing.

  99. Andy

    “John L // Mar 31, 2010 at 10:41 am

    if you don’t like Wayne Root ….I understand. Politics is all about like -ability or lack thereof. Yet, maybe, not being liked in certain circles could be a good thing. Some what similiar to the Sarah Palin thing.”

    I don’t consider it to be a matter of not liking Wayne Root. I don’t personally dislike the guy. I don’t know him very well but he seems like a nice guy. I have no idea what is going on inside his head so I don’t know what his motivations really are, all I can go by is what I’ve heard him say. My point is that I don’t think that he’s the best person to represent this party as Chair or a candidate for President due to being too “Republican Lite” and due to his wanting to move the party in a more Republican direction (as in focusing outreach efforts solely on disgruntled Republicans/conservatives while ignoring or even alienating the rest of the political spectrum). My disagreement with him on these issues does not mean that I pers0nally dislike the guy, nor does it mean that I don’t think that he’s got anything of value to offer. I would be more inclined to support Wayne Root if he were to run for a state or local office in Nevada.

  100. paulie

    On McCain, it’s kind of hard to call someone a “big government conservative,” when they have a lifetime ACU voting score of 82, and an NTU solidly in the 80s.

    A “big government conservative” would be defined as someone in the 50s or 60s on ACU and NTU, not in the 80s.

    From the Liberator Online…

    The Most Tyrannical Legislation in Modern U.S. History?

    On March 4 Senators John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.) introduced one of the most tyrannical bills in modern American history: “The Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention and Prosecution Act of 2010.”

    “It’s probably the single most extremist, tyrannical and dangerous bill introduced in the Senate in the last several decades, far beyond the horrific, habeas-abolishing Military Commissions Act,” says former constitutional lawyer and bestselling author Glenn Greenwald.

    “It literally empowers the President to imprison anyone he wants in his sole discretion by simply decreeing them a terrorist suspect — including American citizens arrested on U.S. soil.

    “The bill requires that all such individuals be placed in military custody, and explicitly says that they ‘may be detained without criminal charges and without trial for the duration of hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners,’ which everyone expects to last decades, at least,” Greenwald says.

    Similarly Marc Ambinder, politics editor of The Atlantic magazine and chief political consultant to CBS News, notes that: “A close reading of the bill suggests it would allow the U.S. military to detain U.S. citizens without trial indefinitely in the U.S. based on suspected activity,”

    Forget due process, the right to a trial, habeas corpus, and other Bill of Rights niceties. This is legalized lynching, legislated disappearing.

    The language of the bill is murky in parts (which is not a good thing). Dan Scott of the left-wing Bay Area Indymedia warns that the bill “is so broadly written, it appears any ‘individual’ who writes on the Internet or verbally express an opinion against an entity of [the] U.S. Government or its coalition partners might be detained on the basis he or she is an ‘unprivileged enemy belligerent’, ‘supporting hostilities against [the] U.S. Government.'”

    Is Scott’s assessment farfetched? Maybe. Or maybe not. Do we want to find out?

    Laura W. Murphy, Director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office, describes the bill as “a direct attack on the Constitution.”

    She’s right. This bill gives the president and federal government the powers of a military dictatorship, and erases any constitutional protection citizens have to protect themselves against such power.

    Thus far eight Senators — including recently-elected Tea Party darling Scott Brown (R-Massachusetts) — have joined McCain and Liebermann as proud cosponsors of this monstrosity.

    The fact that U.S. Senators would even dream of introducing and supporting something like this speaks volumes about American politics today. Could it become law? The Patriot Act did. The Military Commission Act did.

    Perhaps one day you will be considered an “unprivileged enemy belligerent” and secretly grabbed and whisked away to some high-tech federal dungeon for making inflammatory statements like this one:

    “No person shall be … deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law … In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.”

    That, of course, is from the Fifth and Sixth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution.

    And it’s something that a shocking number of U.S. lawmakers no longer believe in.

  101. John L

    ANDY….it’s useless to run a guy that looks like Phil Angeletis, John MCCain, Bob Barr, etc. I hate to say it but the public doesn’t buy into old guys and nerds. People want Reagan, Mitt Romney, Obama, Bill Clinton Sarah Palin, Arnold …etc. This is a TV movie culture, Americans want what they want. The best hair cut wins.

  102. Jim762

    This guy is a clown. Obama sold us out to Big Business, he’s a Corporatist. It has nothing to do with Big Government. These people will say anything it’s pathetic.

  103. paulie

    Obama sold us out to Big Business, he’s a Corporatist. It has nothing to do with Big Government.

    The two go hand in hand.

  104. John L

    Wayne Root is just trying to explain that Las Vegas Nevada is a real American place with real American people. And not just the offramp between Sodom and Gomora.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.