From the Flathead Beacon via Third Party and Independent Daily:
Chuck Baldwin hasn’t stated outright that he plans to run for governor of Montana. But in a speech to a packed room at the Outlaw Inn in Kalispell last week, he all but declared his candidacy, describing the prospect as, “so thrilling I just get goose bumps.”
“Because so many people have asked me, I am seriously thinking about it,” Baldwin said. “There has to be a governor willing to put his life on the line to defend the Constitution.”
Baldwin, the 2008 presidential nominee for the national Constitution Party, described waking in the middle of the night and imagining himself, as governor of Montana, writing a letter to the federal government taking control of all the state’s national parks, forests and Wilderness areas.
“I write, ‘all of the land that you claim is federal has just been reclaimed by the state of Montana,’” Baldwin said. “All these wilderness areas and U.N. wilderness is just an excuse to enslave the citizenry.”
As Montana’s chief executive, Baldwin said he would also reject the federal government in the manner of Arizona’s adoption of a strict and controversial immigration law, which is being challenged by the U.S. Justice Department . . .
I notice Seidenberg never answered Quirk’s question.
Just what Montana needs is another carpetbagger moving in. He can join the lists of Hillery, and Keyes, who moved to different states to run for office.
http.//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncgy2SgORds
Thanks, Mark!
Mark, answer my question- why are you talking about organizing a national AIP when you’re with “America’s Independent Party”?
I’m not understanding your logic here.
Paulie,
You are now being addressed by Mordechai ben
Avraham ha-Kohen. For Don “Everything is a
Fake” Grundmann the word “ha-Kohen” is translated from the Hebrew as “the Priest”.
Mordechai is trasliterated as Mem Vav Resh
Delet Caf Yud. Avraham is transliterated as
Alph Beit Resh Hey Mem.
Paulie, the word you are looking for is “To’ebah”. It is sometimes translated as “Abomination”, but a closer translation
would be ” Taboo”. Read Va-yikra/Leviticus
18:22, 18:27 – 30, and 20:13.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
Wolfefan,
I was a senior transportation management specialist. I worked in the International Transportation Services Branch of the Office
of Transportation of the US Department of
Agriculture.
I have been in 79 foreign countries. I was issued
an OFFICIAL PASSPORT.
1992 was the year national operations moved
to the Taxpayers Party.
They consider themselves and to some extent Conservative Jews to be real Jewish religion, they do not acknowledge the Reform religion as being part of the same faith.
Someone who is converted to Judaism by a Reform Rabbi is not considered a Jew for the purpose of immigrating to Israel.
Orthodox Jews don’t acknowledge Reform Judaism to be part of the Jewish religion, and no one believes that atheists who are descended from Jews are part of the Jewish religion.
= So the only real ‘Jews’ are Orthodox Jews? I’m sure the Reform Synagogue doesn’t agree with that assessment.
True. However, it is also true that the Old Testament calls sex between men an abomination.
Orthodox Jews don’t acknowledge Reform Judaism to be part of the Jewish religion, and no one believes that atheists who are descended from Jews are part of the Jewish religion.
All this time I thought it was stock market manipulation… oh, wait… that was Gomorrah.
The city of Sodom was destroyed because of the practice of homosexuality, hence the term “Sodomite.”
That’s the usual interpretation, but it’s not very clear what the actual sin of Sodom was. It may have been sex with children, institutionalized gang rape, or perhaps something else. It’s only interpretational spin that the actual sin was gay sex per se.
Hi Mark –
I’m wondering what, specifically, was your position in the Reagan administration? What was your title? Where did you work?
Also, what does “organizing the national AIP as it was in 1992” mean? The national AIP was pretty well dead in 1992 – little ballot access, few votes, etc. Why is this the period you choose to emulate?
What portion supports homosexuality?
= Besides the atheistic Jews that don’t practice their religion, the Reform Synagogue is another culprit
Don: “To address yet another of your lies I have no opposition to, and in fact am totally supportive of, the Jewish religion except for the portion that supports abortion and homosexuality.”
The Torah specifically says that he who lies with man as with woman shall surely be put to death. The city of Sodom was destroyed because of the practice of homosexuality, hence the term “Sodomite.” What portion supports homosexuality?
The day before the AIP will be talking about re-organizing the national American Independent
Party as its was in 1992. That will take place
29 miles west on 20 in Marysville.
= What happened to ‘America’s Independent Party’?
Timothy Yung
The events will run in (The Republic of) Rough and Ready from 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m.
The day before the AIP will be talking about re-organizing the national American Independent
Party as its was in 1992. That will take place
29 miles west on 20 in Marysville.
The events on Sunday June 26, 2011 will just
west of Grass Valley, CA in Nevada County.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
Judaism is a dirty gutter religion, like Islam, they should be deported or shot.
” his personal dislike of Judaism has cloulded his reasoning.”
Response – Mark : To address yet another of your lies I have no opposition to, and in fact am totally supportive of, the Jewish religion except for the portion that supports abortion and homosexuality. I do however oppose fake Jewish people like yourself just as I oppose fake Christians ( Robinson ) and fake Mormons ( Noonan ). The fakes of any of these religions, such as yourself, use the name of the religion and its beliefs to hide behind as a shield for the protection and promotion of your criminal and immoral actions. As a restatement I claim that no REAL Jewish person ( ditto for Christians and Mormons ) would EVER commit the moral and literal crimes which you have committed and are still doing to this moment. You, as a moral and literal criminal, bring shame and disgrace upon the Jewish religion by using it as a shield in your attempt to sanitize your utter and complete corruption. REAL Jewish believers are of honest and moral character; the absolute opposite of you. They would never dream of committing the actions which you have committed and continue to do so on an everyday basis.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
But when and where it is? And what website is the information available.
Timothy Yung
I errored the date in June 26, 2011 for secession
days.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
The election for Baldwin will be in 2016.
Do you want to attend the SECESSION DAYS
activites at the Republic of Rough & Ready
on July 26th, 2011?
=Actually I am kinda interested in that.
Anyways I think Chuck Baldwin should run for a lower office and let someone like Rick Jore run for governor.
I regard Michael Peroutka as a fine man. I supported him in the past for President and
I may support in the future if he runs again.
= Maybe you should run that by Ed Noonan first, hahahaha!
I have known of Dr. Alan Keyes since we both
worked in the Reagan Administration in the
1980?s. I supported his campaigns ever since
he ran for the United States Senate in Maryland in the 1980?s.
= So you supported someone that’s as politically incompetent as Lyndon LaRouche?
Shalom = Peace & Blessings to All!
Paulie,
I suggest you read: “TO ELMINATE THE OPIATE (Vol. # 1), by Rabbi Marvin Antelman.
Dr. Antelman explains in-depth how conspiratoral groups are out to destroy
Jews and Judaism. Teachings of Judaism
is pro-life.
I know that Dr. Don Grundmann
with his cognative dissonance and his personal
dislike of Judaism has cloulded his reasoning.
The ADL was taken over long ago by Jews that
hate themselves.
I regard Michael Peroutka as a fine man. I supported him in the past for President and
I may support in the future if he runs again.
I have known of Dr. Alan Keyes since we both
worked in the Reagan Administration in the
1980’s. I supported his campaigns ever since
he ran for the United States Senate in Maryland in the 1980’s.
Both Mr. Peroutka and Dr. Keyes would make
very good office holders.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
BTW, I know for a fact that there are more people of the Jewish faith that are “pro-choice” then there are in the LDS Church.
Orthodox Jews dispute whether the people you are referring to are even in the Jewish faith at all. And most of them don’t even claim to be – they are only Jewish by ancestry.
” Since we are both Jewish, I would think you
would want to do the same. ”
Response – Cody : Mark Seidenberg has the same pro-choice beliefs as his ADL/SPLC handlers. His fake pro-life stance is, as with many other positions, totally amenable to whatever circumstances he is in since, as a sociopath, he will adapt to any position/moment in order to gain favor with, and provide cover for himself with, his target(s). This is the same behavior that his far more successful fellow mole/agent, Alan Keyes, has – profess a position/belief in order to gain the trust of your target before, and even when, you attack them. This behavior allows you to get close enough to put the knife in their back; a successful trait of both Seidenberg and, especially, Keyes. The greater motivation for both of these moles is the success of their infiltration into the organizations which they have targeted for destruction from within as they have no loyalty to the idea, in this case pro-life, but only to their greater and far more self-serving aims. You are correct that a large part of the Jewish faith consists of those who are pro-choice; i.e; pro-death. Seidenberg, as with Keyes, is in this camp along with the organizations of the ADL and the SPLC. While Keyes appears to be pro-life this is only his successful ruse which allows him to ” pay the bills ” via the monetary success such facade has brought to him.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
I thought Cody is Irish by ethnicity and LDS by religion?
= Had a great-grandma on my mother’s side that was full Jewish.
Cody Quirk
First Michael Peroutka wanted to stop the
murder of un-born baby, just as Dr. Alan Keyes did.
Since we are both Jewish, I would think you
would want to do the same.
= Not when this guy is a religious bigot that has used people of my religion for political gain in the past and then worked to kick out people in the CP.
BTW, Ed Noonan was very much opposed to Peroutka as vehemently as I am- did you know that?
And his (Peroutka) divisive actions indirectly kill more babies then save, since an effort to break up the party is an effort to prevent Roe v. Wade from being stopped or changed.
BTW, I know for a fact that there are more people of the Jewish faith that are “pro-choice” then there are in the LDS Church. Did you know that too, Mark?
I do not believe Richard Winger knows when
Chuck Baldwin started to reside in Montana.
Hm. Could be, I don’t know. Richard is rarely ever wrong, but nobody’s perfect.
Since we are both Jewish
I thought Cody is Irish by ethnicity and LDS by religion?
Cody Quirk
First Michael Peroutka wanted to stop the
murder of un-born baby, just as Dr. Alan Keyes did.
Since we are both Jewish, I would think you
would want to do the same.
TO Paulie,
I do not believe Richard Winger knows when
Chuck Baldwin started to reside in Montana.
The election is on November 6, 2012. Where
was Baldwin on November 5, 2010? It was not
in Montana. It is two year prior to the election
not the date one takes office.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
Baldwin can not get on the ballot for Governor
in Montana in 2012. He will have to wait until
2016 to run for Governor, unless the law is changed in that state.
= I doubt that he will run for governor
As for Cody, he must have turned on Michael Peroutka, because he was running for one of spots of the Presidential Electors with me from
California in 2004.
= Seidenberg, you should know! Judging by your lack of memory, I am still questioning your mentality.
Peroutka turned on us, not the other way around.
The independent CP of Montana likely didn’t feel compelled to endorse the same ticket as national, and lingering animosity toward Baldwin over the Tampa disaffiliation vote and its aftermath may have played a role in them dissing Baldwin. (And it may have played a role with them placing Peroutka on the ballot.) But what impact this will have on a future CP run would have a lot to do with whether or not the same core group of activists is still running the show. My hunch is that a Baldwin candidacy would expand the ranks greatly.
= I heard that they were going to put Baldwin on the ballot before, but then had a change of heart and Johnathan Martin, whom was their state chair at the time and a Baptist version of Ed Noonan, did what he could to make sure it didn’t happen.
Oh well, now they’re off the ballot and nothing compared to us.
Poetic justice served.
California…California
…California Uber Alles…
Uber Alles, California….
California Uber Alles…
Baldwin can not get on the ballot for Governor
in Montana in 2012. He will have to wait until
2016 to run for Governor, unless the law is changed in that state.
According to Richard Winger he has been there long enough, just barely.
Montana was one of the states that left the CP over the Nevada IAP/abortion issue.
= There’s more to the story though, as many that wanted to kick us out wanted to turn the CP into a theocratic party, and the participation of Mormons and Catholics in the CP ran counter to their plans and bigoted beliefs.
I am not aware of a split, but if there is one I suspect it is along the lines of those who want to be affiliated with national and those who don’t.
= Correct.
Paulie,
Baldwin can not get on the ballot for Governor
in Montana in 2012. He will have to wait until
2016 to run for Governor, unless the law is changed in that state.
I had a long talk with the Montana Secratary of
State’s staff about Baldwin and a no go run in
2012.
This idea of Baldwin running for in 2012 could be one of Odom’s ideas that does not work.
As for Cody, he must have turned on Michael Peroutka, because he was running for one of spots of the Presidential Electors with me from
California in 2004.
In 2008 the California ticket of the American Independent Party went for Dr. Alan Keyes
(from Maryland) and Dr. Wiley Drake, Sr. (from
California) . No one would even place
Chuck Baldwin name in nomination for President at the AIP Convention on July
5, 2008 at the California Secretary of State
Building Auditorium in the Downtown Community of Sacramento County.
I was the elected chairman of that convention.
I am still upset with Chuck Baldwin for what he
did to Michael Peroutka in the lockout.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg,
Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
ask RedPhillips and Cody Quirk.
maybe their approach is ‘from small acorns’?
at the risk of ‘irrelavent’ here’s a brand new ‘small’ local issue that might grow in no time ……….
MATTHEW BROWN, Associated Press – 11 minutes ago
CORWIN SPRINGS, Montana. –
For the first time since the 1800s, a small group of wild bison were herded Wednesday through fresh-fallen snow to reach their historical grazing grounds north of Yellowstone National Park.
As park employees and state livestock agents on horseback pushed the 25 bison about ten miles down the Yellowstone River valley.
The move could provide at least some relief from government-sponsored mass slaughters of the iconic Western animals
Why would it matter what an ex-CP group with no ballot access wants to do?
Baldwin can presumably get on the ballot as Constitution Party, qualifying a new one himself since there is not one qualified at present, correct?
Cody Quirk [No longer with California AIP] // Jan 20 ………
“I am not sure whether the Montana Constitution Party is still affiliated with The Constitution Party nationally.”
[Lake: correct, and is not listed on national CP
site.]
“I heard that the Montana CP is nearly split into two camps on the national CP issue.”
[Lake: Why yes, kinda. Did you mean to type ‘neatly’ ??? It is my understanding that they are wide open to connecting to various national groups, national CP being low on the internal list. ]
Montana was one of the states that left the CP over the Nevada IAP/abortion issue.
I am not aware of a split, but if there is one I suspect it is along the lines of those who want to be affiliated with national and those who don’t.
The independent CP of Montana likely didn’t feel compelled to endorse the same ticket as national, and lingering animosity toward Baldwin over the Tampa disaffiliation vote and its aftermath may have played a role in them dissing Baldwin. (And it may have played a role with them placing Peroutka on the ballot.) But what impact this will have on a future CP run would have a lot to do with whether or not the same core group of activists is still running the show. My hunch is that a Baldwin candidacy would expand the ranks greatly.
I would be glad to hear from anyone with first hand knowledge of the Montana situation.
[a] January 2011
[b] your guess is as good as mine
[c] probably better
[d] Top Two in California ???????
Mr. Siedenberg, whom are the AIP GOING TO RUN FOR president for 2012?? or have you decided? thank you, ken dewert.
Cody Quirk
What did you hear about two camps and a split
in Montana CP? What is the national CP issue
that is the cause of this split?
Do you want to attend the SECESSION DAYS
activites at the Republic of Rough & Ready
on July 26th, 2011?
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg,
Vice Chairman
American Independent Party
I am not sure whether the Montana Constitution Party is still affiliated with The Constitution Party nationally.
I heard that the Montana CP is nearly split into two camps on the national CP issue.
No, the Montana CP got kicked off the ballot.
I don’t know if the same group that controlled the Montana Constitution ballot line in 2008 still does.
A complicating factor nobody has mentioned – the Montana Constitution Party did not even back Chuck Baldwin in 2008. Instead they put Ron Paul on the ballot for President, and Michael Peroutka for Vice-President.
I am not sure whether the Montana Constitution Party is still affiliated with The Constitution Party nationally.
Yeah.
I am a big supporter of Chuck Baldwin as many of y’all know, but I don’t think he should run in 2012 because it is too soon. He will be seen as an interloper and an opportunist outside a certain circle of supporters. He should wait until at least 2016.
Montana Constitution requires candidates for Governor to have lived in the state 2 years, so he just barely meets that, since the election isn’t until November 2012.
Or this:
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2011/01/nader-advocates-for-progressive-libertarian-alliance/
Many people?s definition of conservative and libertarian overlap.
That’s a big problem. Genuine libertarianism is very, very different from conservatism of any sort.
The fact that many or most people view libertarianism as some form of conservatism, or within the conservative sphere of influence, is in my view the main thing hindering libertarianism from becoming much bigger, stronger and widely accepted.
My working hypothesis is that this misconception of libertarianism, defined entirely by its right flank, cuts us off from the vast majority of our most promising target audience.
Collaterally, it also cuts off the left from any genuine way of achieving any of the stated goals that its big government programs are supposed to be aimed to achieve, leaving both halves of the classical liberal diaspora – liberals/progressives and libertarians – stuck in counterproductive loops.
The left is stuck in a counterproductive loop of supporting ever bigger government to achieve goals that become more and more distant as government becomes bigger. Libertarians are stuck in a counterproductive loop of chasing ephemeral conservative support that will never materialize, because it is precisely the wrong target audience, and every effort to do so takes us further away from doing what we need to do to capture our natural market.
Thus artificially cleaved apart, neither half of the natural classical liberal alliance can ever achieve the success it needs and deserves.
But, we are in the wrong thread to be discussing this. This may be better:
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2011/01/prominent-wyoming-libertarians-found-county-party/
Many people’s definition of conservative and libertarian overlap. Some people’s definition of conservative excludes the term libertarian. Unless you have a measuring stick ready how you rate a person on their measurement scale differs from person to person. I would prefer to discuss what position person X has on issues A, B and C. Does Dick Cheney or Barack Obama or Voter Z care if Ron Paul and Gary Johnson and Rand Paul are conservative? I bet they don’t but they probably care what issues they support if they are to support one of those figures.
“It’s only that all the people I’ve known well who strongly identify as libertarians- capital or lowercase L- identify as conservatives.”
I don’t know who all you know, but most libertarians – capital or otherwise – that I know storgly indentify as libertarians, not conservatives.
Paulie:
I suppose I really shouldn’t generalize and characterize libertarians as all right-wingers. It’s only that all the people I’ve known well who strongly identify as libertarians- capital or lowercase L- identify as conservatives.
However, a free-marketeer’s civil libertarianism can compel one to identify primarily left-wing, just as concern for economic freedom can compel a civil libertarianism to identify primarily right-wing. (All this based on the idea that mainstream conservatism favors primarily social control and market freedom and mainstream liberalism favors individual liberty the greater, but not in the economic realm)
I should be more inclusive.
He could do pretty well. There are tons of nutcases up in Montana (especially around Kalispell) that would probably vote for him.
@2 Also,
It was the far right- of the non-libertarian sort, I should be sure to distinguish- that brought us the Patriot Act
Aside from the fact that “far right of the non-libertarian sort” is redundant, Baldwin’s type of far right is a lot different from the Patriot Act supporters.
@1
What makes you think Baldwin thinks he has a shot of winning?
That said, there’s a world of difference between Montana and Colorado, and we don’t know what potentially paradigm-changing events could happen between now and the next election. So, while it’s an extreme long shot to actually win (and actually winning is likely not the main goal), nothing is completely impossible.
@2
You say that as if libertarians were on the right.
Gene:
I shouldn’t have associated Mr. Baldwin with that Act, then. My apologies to his fans. Frankly, though, I still do not believe Mr. Baldwin can be credibly called a freedom candidate, though it is clear he aspires to that mantle.
Baldwin supports Arizona’s immigration law, which authorizes roadside racism. Baldwin is opposed to a woman’s right to choose as well. So long as skin pigmentation is ‘suspicious’ enough to alter rights and should women do not own their own bodies before the government does, freedom has more pressing frontiers than seizing the federal parks.
Mark @2 – Chuck Baldwin has been an outspoken opponent of The Patriot Act. The Constitution Party and The John Birch Society have both opposed the Patriot Act from the beginning.
Most Democrats in the House of Representatives and all the Democrat Senators except for Russ Feingold voted yes on The Patriot Act.
Almost all the Republicans in the House voted for The Patriot Act, including moderates like Jim Leach (who backed Obama in 2008) and all the Republican Senators, including the moderates Olympia Snowe, Lisa Murkowski etc voted for the act.
The National Park Service spends $2.9 billion dollars a year and employs 15,000 permanent employees. If that expense (or even 1/50th of that expense) can be eliminated or reduced via state confiscation I am all for it. Whether the State of Montana can maintain those parks for a lesser figure is yet to be seen but you can’t know if you never try.
It isn’t as if the US Constitution authorizes a national park service.
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html
I should add, I don’t want Mr. Baldwin to fall down a sewer or anything. Viable third-party candidates always advance an issues-based engagement with democracy, and if Mr. Baldwin achieves that status, he will be interesting to watch, and is already courageous to do as much as run.
It was the far right- of the non-libertarian sort, I should be sure to distinguish- that brought us the Patriot Act, brought us “indefinite detention” without trial, and brought us wiretapping by the federal government.
But at least the non-libertarian right will save us from being enslaved by our national parks. Thank God someone is standing up for that!
I doubt this will go well. If Tancredo couldn’t win in Colorado what makes Baldwin think he has any shot in Montana? At least people knew who Tancredo was.