From an e-mail:
It’s Official. I have been nominated as a Presidential candidate for the Boston Tea Party.
My campaign website is www.VoteForAChange.US
In Liberty, with Eternal Vigilance,
Jim
74 Comments
Comments are closed.
July 31, 2026
Your Premier Source on Third Parties and Independent Candidates Since 2008
From an e-mail:
It’s Official. I have been nominated as a Presidential candidate for the Boston Tea Party.
My campaign website is www.VoteForAChange.US
In Liberty, with Eternal Vigilance,
Jim
Comments are closed.
Maybe you could call it the Long Island Tea Party or the Dauphin Island Tea Party or maybe the Orleans Parish Tea Party or the Nome Tea Party. How would changing the geographic location change the fact that
A) Tea Party means something completely different to the public at large than what you are trying to convey
B) Most of the public does not know what the original Boston Tea Party was
C) Having a local name in a national party’s name is just plain weird and takes more time to explain to more people than it is worth?
I have one and only one suggestion if the party is willing to consider a name change and insists on keeping Tea Party as part of the name.
OCCUPY TEA PARTY
Balanced and meaningful!
Chuck,
Minnesota and North Dakota could both have potential. Other caucus states too, possibly. There is a multi-stage delegate selection process where Ron Paul folks could theoretically have a chance.
However, I think most of them will get killed at the state convention level even if they do make it out of the precincts, districts etc.
If they want Rand to fare better in 2016 they need to take over state-level organizations all over the country between now and then.
Paulie: “Lee Wrights comes the closest to having a chance of beating Johnson, and I estimate that chance to be very close to nonexistent. RJ is even further from being able to do it.”
I agree. Johnson isn’t Barr; he doesn’t have a history of pushing social conservatism. And though GJ isn’t what most Libertarians would consider a pure libertarian, he showed he’s not just paying lip service to seriously reducing government when he was the Governor of NM (vetoing more bills than any other Governor; cutting both taxes & spending substantially; publicly advocating ending drug prohibition, something almost every politician won’t do). He also didn’t jump into the race acting like he doesn’t have to work for the nomination like other candidates are doing. In sum, I don’t think there’s going to be nearly as strong a contingent of anti-Johnson voters at the convention as Barr had anti-Barr voters.
I have some problems with Johnson as well (the fraudulent tax being the biggest one but not the only one), but to be fair I think he is a lot more libertarian than Bob Barr is or ever has been. His record as Governor is also a lot better than Barr’s record as Congressman and DA.
As for VP this year that remains to be seen. I’m not sure that there is any kind of solid consensus on that among likely delegates, so showing up at the convention in force may make a difference there, if you care about that (or about LNC races).
I do agree that the Root/Rutherford side of the party does have an advantage going in because they are marginally better at being organized.
Agreed on Russo and Ruwart, but as for Gravel, his (non) conversion on economic issues or long term party affiliation) was even less real than Barr’s on social issues (or long term party affiliation). I stand by my 2008 votes for Kubby until he was eliminated, then Ruwart, and Kubby for VP on every ballot. Furthermore, I don’t think Ruwart would have agreed to run with Gravel any more than she would have agreed to run with Barr (although Kubby might have), and lastly don’t forget that Gravel gave his support to Root and Barr after he was out.
With somewhere around zero to eight states ballot access – I’ll be cautiously optimistic and say four or five – how do you even get noticed at all, much less make a difference?
I know you get some local media around Vegas, but how do you plan to get national media coverage? It’s a lot harder to do, especially when Johnson, Virgil Goode, Jill Stein and Americans Elect will all have much more in the way of money, ballot access, pre-existing party supporters, and record of achievement by themselves and/or their parties.
I don’t see the precedent.
Let’s look at the parties that have actually done that or even come close in the modern era of ballot access laws, multimillion dollar national advertising and nationwide political media.
LP – it took millions of dollars of Koch money, following a faithless elector in 1972.
GP – Nader spent 40 years building a name for himself prior to to running as a Green. The Greens also already had successful parties in other countries.
AE – multimillions of large, secret contributions from shadowy gazillionaires.
Reform Party – a colorful billionaire and media personality candidate shelling out multi millions.
Natural Law, Fulani – cult supporters going into politics and bringing the focus/zeal that only cults can muster.
AIP – well known, controversial Governors, Congressmen and General.
Am I missing any counter-examples?
Maybe social media could evolve enough to make this plausible by 2016 and maybe you could find a way to go viral, but many other groups and people will be trying to do so as well. Breaking out will be a lot harder.
If both parties were starting from scratch I would agree.
However, 40 years of the LP, Ron Paul in 2008 and 2012, Cato, Reason, Mises and many others have made the clunky L-word recognizable to much of the public.
Meanwhile, “Tea Party” is also recognizable, but in an entirely different way than the BTP.
This is one of many reasons I want you to go ahead and start your Fremont Street/Courthouse ballot access now and actually see how your theory plays with the general public when you encounter them en masse and face to face one on one.
I can tell you from doing this over the years that most people will be apathetic, cynical, ignorant, a waste of your time, or some combination thereof.
But I really want you to see for yourself as soon as possible, and hopefully even prove me wrong.
True.
However, in almost all of the states where the BTP has any real shot at the ballot, it will be as an independent ticket anyway, so the name is not likely to make much impact this year.
I’ll lay money on the “not”. Anyone want to put some bux on the “can”?
I’m not faulting Jim for going for BTP rather than LP since I don’t think he would have any real chance of beating Johnson. Lee Wrights comes the closest to having a chance of beating Johnson, and I estimate that chance to be very close to nonexistent. RJ is even further from being able to do it.
If Ron Paul went LP he would take it easily, but I don’t think he’ll go LP. If Jesse Ventura drops in we could have a real race for the nomination with some suspense involved. If the field is at stands, the odds are very heavy in favor of Johnson.
It makes sense for Jim to go for the BTP nomination for the same reason it makes sense to support LP presidential candidates even though Ron Paul is still in the Republican race. Ron Paul will not win the Republican nomination (and probably won’t go LP/independent/alt party). Jim (or RJ) will not win the LP nomination. Thus, if you want to be on the ballot in November, you should support the LP candidate of your choice even if you are also supporting Ron Paul. And if you find Johnson to be unacceptable, or at least in need of some more strongly libertarian competition in November, you should also support candidates such as Jim or John Wayne in the BTP.
Support Ron Paul and RJ Harris all you want, but at this point it seems very unlikely either of them will be a general election candidate this year.
The BTP is on zero ballots and I am not aware of any active effort in any state to get the party on the ballot.
Issues/philosophy are certainly important, but without ballot access you are a blog, not a political party in any meaningful sense.
Credibility is certainly important as well.
But ballot access is a limited time opportunity, and I have seen way too many people make promises and not deliver – including ones that I knew damn well were capable of doing it – to ever take promises without signatures in hand to be anything more than words.
That’s why I am trying to jump start the BTP into thinking seriously about ballot access.
I may be exaggerating a little for effect even, but not a whole lot; ballot access really is the crux here.
There are blogs aplenty with good ideas/philosophy.
When the BTP gets some states to give it ballot access it moves back to being somewhat of a political party. For now, it’s a blog/internet discussion community/message board/whatever you want to call that.
Thanks Chuck. I hadn’t read that nonsense. How long before Starr, Carling, and Mattson propose the same kind of bylaw for the LP, as one of their famous housekeeping bylaws?
In Liberty, with Eternal Vigilance,
Jim Duensing
http://www.VoteForAChange.US
Jim Duensing wrote (@66):
Read the Republican Party bylaws. If Ron Paul doesn’t win at least 5 states, then any votes for him by delegates in any states will not be read during the balloting process.
Let’s say Ron Paul wins a plurality of the delegates in Nevada and Missouri. What are the other 3 states?
I hope Dr. Paul does win 5 states. But if he doesn’t, then there is zero chance that Nevada will announce any votes for Ron Paul during the balloting — even if he won every single Nevada delegate.
@ Andy,
As for why I haven’t focused more on my LP Presidential bid, I suspended it when Ron Paul announced. I’ve been focusing on the local Ron Paul effort. Nevada has now won – for all intents and purposes – the entirety of the Nevada delegation. There are still Is to dot and Ts to cross, but the hand is over. All we have to do is keep laying our cards down on the table now.
This entire state will go to Ron Paul. And, this time, unlike the last time when Bob Beers and the Establishment GOP stole the delegates from Ron Paul at the 2008 State Convention, at the 2012 state convention, it will be a super majority of Ron Paul delegates. That means in Florida, Ron Paul will get every single delegate from Nevada and there won’t be a unanimous coronation of Mitt Romney or Jeb Bush. Someone will be voting for Ron Paul every time the GOP party hacks re-ballot in their brokered convention. But, at this point, I don’t think Ron Paul is going to get the national nomination – not because he didn’t earn it, but because the Establishment has already stolen enough elections in other states – using essentially the same playbook, for instance, in MO 2012 as they did in NV 08.
Ron Paul must continue his fight to the convention. He can have more of a positive impact on national politics by giving all of his delegates a fight to be proud of in Florida.
And, We the People must have a backup plan. We simply cannot leave this political momentum adrift at sea with no place but Barr /Root II to go to in November.
The Libertarian Party has been taken over by a cult of pseudo-professional bylaws wizards who don’t oppose unnecessary wars that make profits. And, they don’t want to stand up for all of our freedoms all of the time. These same people focus obsessively about collecting user fees from delegates to pay for expensively hosted and catered LNC meetings where all they do is argue about the agenda – and Roberts’ Rules of Order.
And, if the Libertarian Party were going to make the right choice in Las Vegas in 2012, the delegates would have already made the right choice. They would have elected Gravel / Ruwart in 2008 and they would have nominated Russo / Badnarik in 2004. At no point would they have nominated a member of the secret government who was busy drafting parts of the Patriot Act when Ron Paul couldn’t get a copy to read. Or a tout service conman whose biggest accomplishment is 3rd place in a speed talking contest won by the micro – machines guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2egGfd5j_k
In my estimation, what’s left of the carcass of the Libertarian Party is as much an impediment to our cause as it is a help. It would be nice to have 50 state ballot access, but I’d rather build a party full of people all of whom are more concerned about ACTUALLY taking our country back than debating Robert’s Rules of Order or winning over Rupert Murdoch.
As for the Boston Tea Party, it is a young growing party, with a good foundation. The Presidential race gives you a national platform even if you are not on all the ballots in the nation. The Libertarian Party Leadership has squandered their national voice year after year. With a strong principled populist national message the Boston Tea Party could very well make a difference in the national Presidential race and be on the ballot in all 50 states in 2016, with 50 strong affiliates. It would take the Libertarian Party 4 or 5 conventions to clean house at this point.
As for the name of the Boston Tea Party, I can’t say the Librarian Party is a perfect brand name to sell either. As someone who read detailed histories of the Boston Tea Party and the foundation of our government in grade school, the Boston Tea Party makes perfect sense to me as a name for a party. It was a grassroots non-violent strike against a Tyrannical king and one of his Big Monopoly Trading Companies. It was the act of civil disobedience that rallied the colonists and motivated the Redcoats to confiscate the weapons at Colonel Barrett’s farm. We need a very similar political effort today. That said, Faux News, Sean Hannity, and Stephen Gordon, did a good job of co-opting the burgeoning Tea Party movement and making it look like an extremely racist and ignorant effort instead of a principled attempt by concerned citizens to get back some control over our government. The name Tea Party thus has a somewhat negative connotation today. As such, I would not oppose changing the name of the organization to the Lexington Green Party if such were suggested at the national convention.
In Liberty, with Eternal Vigilance,
Jim Duensing
http://www.VoteForAChange.US
I’m not really convinced that Boston Tea Party is a good name for a political party.
First of all, Boston makes it sound like it is some kind of northeastern, or more specifically, New England thing. Some people in certain parts of this country could think something like, “I ain’t signing a petition for some Yankee party.”
Second of all, the terms Tea Party have been hijacked by Republicans. While the Tea Party certainly has supporters, it also has plenty of detractors, and some of those detractors have some good reasons for being detractors, as the Tea Party has strayed from its libertarian roots.
You all may want to consider changing the name of the party.
I imagine that if the Boston Tea Party petitions anywhere to place its Presidential ticket on the ballot, that in at least some of those states the Presidential ticket would run as independents, so in those places the party label doesn’t matter that much, but I’m just pointing out that the name Boston Tea Party could do more harm than good (as in it might repel more votes than it brings in).
Jim Duensing said: “You’re not making any sense. I have gathered signatures in the past. It does not take incredible skill.”
It’s not easy to do it well, and to do it consistently well (as in with high volume and high validity).
If it were really easy, then it wouldn’t be so difficult to get on the ballot.
Out of the candidates who have announced for the LP’s Presidential nomination, I’m currently supporting RJ Harris. I don’t know if RJ can beat Johnson or not, but at least he’s in the race and at least he’s trying.
What’s the prize if RJ wins the nomination of the Libertarian Party? He’ll be able to run under a party banner that is at least somewhat well known (for a party other than Democrat or Republican), and he should be able to get on the ballot in 49 states plus Washington DC (the LP’s petition drive in Oklahoma has probably failed, but there’s still a chance he could get on the ballot there, which would mean that he could be on the ballot in all 50 states plus DC).
If RJ Harris ran for the Boston Tea Party’s nomination, how many ballot would be realistically be able to get on? Not very many I’d bet.
Jim Duensing said: “After the LP coronates a Johnson / WAR ticket at the convention in Las Vegas, featuring the first floor fee ever, there will be a number of actual libertarians who will be looking for someone else to support.”
Question for Jim: Instead of complaining about Gary Johnson probably winning the nomination and then running for President under a party banner that is not even on the ballot in any state, and is only likely to get on the ballot in a few states that have easy ballot access (if this party even gets on the ballot anywhere), why didn’t you stay in the race for the Libertarian Party’s Presidential nomination, or, why haven’t you focused on campaigning for a candidate who is to your liking for the Libertarian Party’s Presidential nomination?
It seems to me that going for the Libertarian Party’s Presidential nomination would be a more productive use of one’s time than going with a small “l” libertarian party that does not even have ballot access in one state and will not stand any chance of getting ballot access in enough states to even have a theoretical chance to win the election.
I’m really not happy with Gary Johnson being the #1 contender for the LP’s nomination (due to his support of the Fair Tax, as well as a few other issues), but it is not a forgone conclusion that Gary Johnson is going to be the nominee. Gary Johnson came into the race for the LP nomination late, and he entered a weak field, but it’s not like Gary Johnson is setting the world on fire. If he wins it will only be because nobody ran a strong campaign and because the delegates at the convention voted for him just because he’s a former Governor and has at least a little bit of name recognition.
Jim Duensing said: “With all due respect Paulie, I don’t think your criteria for a Presidential candidate should be based upon which is a better signature gatherer. I am rather surprised at the direction of this thread.”
I agree that getting signatures for ballot access should not be the most important criteria for a candidate. The two most important issues are issues/philosophy and credibility (as in, does the candidate in question have a repuation for doing what they say they are going to do).
After the two issues above, actually getting on the ballot is important, because if you aren’t on the ballot you won’t get any votes.
I have gathered signatures in the past. It does not take incredible skill.
True. It’s more a matter of perserverance.
When I was Chair of the LP we kept ballot access. Under the current leadership, I don’t expect the NVLP to do that in 2012.
True, and true. But keeping ballot access is different from getting it to begin with. I agree that the current NVLP leadership is shooting themselves in the foot by gambling on running so few candidates. I guess we’ll see whether they get lucky. If not, maybe I’ll go to Vegas for them next year.
Additionally, the time is not right to collect these signatures as there is no nominee.
You don’t have to have a nominee in most states including NV to get ballot access. We’ve been doing it for several of the other parties in state after state, and none of them have chosen their nominees yet.
It’s not like I’m asking you to do 7,000 signatures this week. I just want to see some real effort ahead of the nomination. I’ve learned the hard way from way too many examples that when it comes to ballot access there are many people who talk big but do little or nothing. That’s why nowadays I only believe it when I see it.
If the fact that I have collected signatures and have inspired people to activism doesn’t motivate you, please vote for the guy that needed your paid help to get 275 signatures.
You’re thinking of Charles Jay, and he’s not running this year. John got most of Florida done himself, which was a full slate of electors, which was also part of what we needed to do in Tennessee. We got a few of the electors in Florida.
@ Paulie
You’re not making any sense. I have gathered signatures in the past. It does not take incredible skill. When I was Chair of the LP we kept ballot access. Under the current leadership, I don’t expect the NVLP to do that in 2012.
Additionally, the time is not right to collect these signatures as there is no nominee. Although, I’ll bet news of my nomination has already increased membership numbers for the party.
If the fact that I have collected signatures and have inspired people to activism doesn’t motivate you, please vote for the guy that needed your paid help to get 275 signatures.
In Liberty, with Eternal Vigilance,
Jim
http://www.VoteForAChange.US
Very good.
So you will have no difficulty with my challenge then.
I’m not from Missouri but I’m in a “show me” state of mind when it comes to ballot access.
Cool.
Show me that this works.
Start implementing your plan THIS week and report some results and I may very well vote for you.
I’m open minded.
Hell, I think Milnes is a wack job and I even offered to vote for him if he can show me he can get NJ on the ballot, and that only takes 800 valid.
I like you a hell of a lot better than I like Milnes.
So show me the signatures and my vote may well be yours, if my vote in an internet poll selecting the BTP candidate is worth anything to you.
You’re right, it has little to do with how good you are at getting signatures yourself.
That’s why I said Get the signatures yourself, inspire someone else to get them volunteer, pay me, pay my competition. I don’t care how you do it. I only care about results. JWS is in Tennessee this weekend at the LP convention and may find electors and volunteer petitioners for BTP there. That’s being proactive, and that’s how you earn my vote.
Job one is getting on the ballot. Otherwise you may as well just write a blog because that is in fact all you are doing.
To the extent that any alt party is relevant at all, it is based on being on the ballot.
So either demonstrate some ability to get on the ballot or I will not be voting for you.
This is not about making money for me. I have other clients. Get the signatures yourself, or *prove* you can inspire volunteers to get them (I said prove….signatures talk and bullshit walks), or hire my crackhead competition that promises to get them at a low rate. Again, I don’t care how you do it. I’ve proven I can do it, and I am not independently wealthy, so if you want my help with it I will need to pay my way. If you don’t want my help fine, show you can do it any way you want to do it. Just do it some how some way.
If you disagree with me that this should be priority #1 or if you just can’t or won’t cut the mustard, that’s OK too. All it means is that I won’t vote for you in the BTP internet poll, but since in that case you won’t be on the ballot anyway why would it even matter?
Sorry about the broken link above. The second one works.
Here is a link to the first video in the Kill Your TV Series by Occupy Las Vegas which I presented.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n2CYJVY_90
The presentation deals with the collapse of the Housing Market and why it is tied to the Swindling at the Federal Reserve Banking System.
In Liberty, with Eternal Vigilance,
Jim
http://www.VoteForAChange.US
@ Paulie
You wrote:
John knows how to do ballot access, and his bio says he has a lot of petitioning experience, which is why right now I am backing John over Jim unless I learn something I don’t know yet between now and the vote.
———————————-
With all due respect Paulie, I don’t think your criteria for a Presidential candidate should be based upon which is a better signature gatherer. I am rather surprised at the direction of this thread.
First, to get it out of the way, signature gathering is a lot like most other public outreach with a clipboard or a flyer. I have done lots of such activism. I have been a candidate for federal office 3 and a half times. I was the State Chair of the Nevada LP and the Chair of the LP’s State Chairs’ Organization. I have considerable experience campaigning and inspiring others.
After the LP coronates a Johnson / WAR ticket at the convention in Las Vegas, featuring the first floor fee ever, there will be a number of actual libertarians who will be looking for someone else to support.
Those radical libertarians can be heard applauding wildly in the below video clip during my nominating speech for Ernest Hancock as the chair of the National LP in 2010. That’s Michael Badnarik, Barry Hess, Tony Wall, and Jordan Page on the stage there with me.
Click ahead to just before the three minute mark for my speech.
http://www.youtube.comwatch?v=hXSYrqBfbh4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXSYrqBfbh4
For you Jordan Page fans, his speech follows mine and can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMil6hqWYts
This new Boston Tea Party needs a candidate who will inspire people to the cause.
Frankly, that is more important to America’s fastest growing party than a guy who can gather signatures.
Still, here’s my plan for ballot access in my state should I become the nominee. It requires 7,000+ signatures here in Nevada by Independence Day.
Firstly, I will need to organize an affiliate party here in Nevada before I can file the paperwork to start collecting the signatures. I am already in discussions with local activists from the Ron Paul Revolution and the local Occupy effort where I have been active. There will be a quality set of officers at the beginning of this party with a diverse background and a singular devotion to reducing the size and scope of government at all levels.
And we will get the signatures.
I will probably spend most of my time collecting signatures on the courthouse steps and on nearby Freemont Street. The courthouse is only busy in the early morning when all the victims of traffic tickets show up for one of the several “hearings” they are required to attend while being stripped of their Right to a Trial By Jury. I’ll probably have fliers aimed at traffic ticket victims advising them of how their rights are being trampled because their Constitutionally protected Right to a Trial by Jury is being summarily ignored by a government that has grown way too big for its Constitutional britches.
There is a steady stream of people strolling down Freemont Street. Since there are about 20-30% tourists on Freemont, I will have a bankers box full of petitions from the other states for which we have the local activists to support a signature drive. And sign up forms for those who want to get active or help form an affiliate when they get back home.
Secondly, the key to party politics – especially third party politics – is grassroots organization.
At this point in the race, everyone agrees we are not going to get on the ballot in 50 states. I want to get on the ballot in several states and make a difference in the race. Meanwhile, I want to use the campaign to organize 50 state affiliates. So we are in position to be on the ballot in 50 states in 2016. I will spend the bulk of my time as a candidate working with the National Committee to organize as many state affiliates as possible and staging a national campaign that gets attention and gains supporters.
I have experience organizing county affiliates here in Nevada. They are the ones WARs autocratic NVLP abolished after I got on statewide television discussing our Martin Luther King Rally in Nye County. State affiliates in a lot of ways will be easier than the county affiliates to organize. By the old LPNV bylaws, it required ten people to form a county affiliate. Most states require at most 5 people and they can be – and hopefully are – distributed throughout the state. So, organizing state affiliates should be even easier.
The key to this race will be who is more likely to inspire people to form affiliates and become active in their own community while we still have slightly freer elections that Putin’s Russia.
So, although I think I am competitive in the criteria you are considering, I don’t think that should be the criteria used by the Boston Tea Party to choose a nominee.
In Liberty, with Eternal Vigilance,
Jim Duensing
http://www.VoteForAChange.US – Time to Party Like it’s 1773!
http://bostontea.us/node/1107
Challenge to BTP presidential nomination candidates: get ballot access sigs
John Wayne Smith actually did a lot of the Florida ballot access for BTP in 2008. Andy and I did Tennessee and got Florida over the top, and Dan Kilo did Colorado.
John knows how to do ballot access, and his bio says he has a lot of petitioning experience, which is why right now I am backing John over Jim unless I learn something I don’t know yet between now and the vote.
Jim says he wants to do the ballot access all-volunteer. Actions speak louder than words, so if he produces a significant number of volunteer signatures between now and the vote he could win my support. He could start by getting some sigs in NV. I found the Las Vegas DMVs and UNLV to be productive petition locations, although I have heard that UNLV has once again cracked down on free speech since I was last there.
If Milnes manage to get off his butt and get 800 valid signatures to get the BTP on the ballot in NJ in time for the voting to start, I’ll vote for him on the first ballot this next convention. Otherwise no. Consider that a challenge.
This was previously posted as a comment on another post here, and Milnes responded but ignored the signature challenge.
Note that Milnes dodges the challenge and has not collected one single signature.
Excuses are a dime a dozen.
800 signatures is pretty easy, so if and when Milnes gets off his ass and collects them I will vote for him for something. I predict he won’t get off his ass to get signatures, so I won’t have to vote for him.
Don’t forget to get extras for validity. 150-200% of the requirement usually does the job.
Get the signatures yourself, inspire someone else to get them volunteer, pay me, pay my competition. I don’t care how you do it. I only care about results. JWS is in Tennessee this weekend at the LP convention and may find electors and volunteer petitioners for BTP there. That’s being proactive, and that’s how you earn my vote. I hope other people make that a big part of their consideration on how they vote, too.
Open Letter to Party Members on the 2012 Presidential Nomination
For sake of brevity, I refrained from posting the full letter.
http://www.kens5.com/video/featured-videos/Your-television-other-devices-could-be-spying-on-you-143637096.html
I have posted 11 questions (several are multiple part questions) for the BTP candidates to answer
http://bostontea.us/node/1105
1) Why should you be the BTP nominee?
2) What are your plans for ballot access?
3) Are there any planks of the BTP Program with which you disagree?
If so, which ones and why?
The other 8 questions are the same as the questions sent to the LP candidates, all GOP candidates and posted publicly for any and all other candidates.
http://www.campaignsitebuilder.com/templates/displayfiles/tmpl8.asp?SiteID=1099&PageID=17796&Trial=false
http://www.campaignsitebuilder.com/templates/displayfiles/tmpl8.asp?SiteID=1099&PageID=17797&Trial=false
http://www.campaignsitebuilder.com/templates/displayfiles/tmpl8.asp?SiteID=1099&PageID=19474&Trial=false
http://www.campaignsitebuilder.com/templates/displayfiles/tmpl8.asp?SiteID=1099&PageID=22079&Trial=false
http://www.campaignsitebuilder.com/templates/displayfiles/tmpl8.asp?SiteID=1099&PageID=22083&Trial=false
http://www.campaignsitebuilder.com/templates/displayfiles/tmpl8.asp?SiteID=1099&PageID=22250&Trial=false
http://www.campaignsitebuilder.com/templates/displayfiles/tmpl8.asp?SiteID=1099&PageID=24432&Trial=false
Has he rethought any of these positions? LOL
I asked him, and he said in writing that he supports the BTP platform.
I think he’s lying, but that was what he said.
Would someone like to make a list of specific policy questions to ask him to see whether he is telling the truth?
Why?
Jim and John Wayne are both libertarian on the issues, but John Wayne seems to have a more realistic view of ballot access, so at this point he is my first choice for the nomination unless/until I hear something to change my mind.
And I don’t mean character issues, as I am already aware of both what he has admitted to and what he has been accused of but disputes.
That would have been smart, but they have decided to nominate earlier, for whatever reason.
It’s a pretty large slate of electors though. If they have to have one physically in each district that may actually be a bigger hurdle than 800 valid signatures.
That’s good; it just leaves you with a $500 filing fee in each state if true.
For Louisiana you need at least one elector in each congressional district, they can’t all be from the same part of the state. Not sure about Colorado.
Darryl, you haven’t been paying attention. Milnes is a real progressive and supports far more government intervention economically. Ask him about some of his economic ideas.
While Milnes fashions himself a “progressive” he has not, to my knowledge, taken any specific stands which are in opposition to the BTP platform. If he has, please bring themto my attention.
@42… I believe all one has to do is say that one agrees with the BTP platform. That’s it; no further vetting. Nothing. I think that’s how they got in such a mess with the first nominee.
@1 How does Milnes get to play when his “progressive” policies can’t be reached under the BTP Platform ?
Platform of the Boston Tea Party
The Boston Tea Party supports reducing the size, scope and power of government at all levels and on all issues, and opposes increasing the size, scope and power of government at any level, for any purpose.
@36 – the only people with blocked accounts (as far as I’m awre) are former members who have asked for their accounts to be deleted and duplicate accounts.
I think Andre Barnett would be a really great candidate for the BTP
Good luck to Jim! He’s probably the best choice the party can make…UNLESS
Unless the BTP can find a way to postpone their nomination deadline until after the LP convention. There is the increasing probability that many Libertarians will be hoping that what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.
PEACE
New Jersey only needs 800 sigs, and it’s a chance to get a good number of votes. Also, maybe the Florida Pirate Party could provide ballot access for the BTP candidate.
Going to state conventions to drum up support is a good idea.
DWP- Is there any way to get banned at the BTP site? If so, what are the criteria?
Colorado & Louisiana both have active affiliates, the chair in LA has messaged me that he can get electors himself and the chair in CO found electors himself in 08 – so, I don’t anticipate that extra funds would be needed in those 2 States.
@33
Colorado = $500 filing fee
7 Congressional districts, so if you need help getting electors from all of them plus at large that would about double that. (1k)
Louisiana same thing (1k for Louisiana, brings total to 2k).
Tennessee 275 signatures and 9 districts. When you add in the extra signatures to cover validity, expenses, and running all over the state to find electors, that might run around $1500-2000, so
estimate 3.5k to 4k for your three easiest states.
Obviously whatever you can get volunteer offsets some of that cost, but you have to have enough money there to make it at least somewhat worth it for someone to go into a state and get the rest.
For your fourth state you may want to look at one of the ones that has a 1,000 sig requirement and is near your three previously mentioned states (Colorado, Louisiana and Tennessee).
Utah is right next to Colorado; Mississippi and Arkansas both border both Louisiana and Tennessee. One of those states might run you around 4-5k, including extra signatures for validity, travel expenses and electors.
You may be able to do a different state or states if your petitioners are in another region of the country for other reasons. For example, if they do PA for a larger alt party they could knock out NJ for you while they are there. Or if they do MA
for a larger alt party they might do RI or VT for
you.
So all inclusive ballot access for the 4 easiest states might run about $8k -9k, minus whatever you can save through your volunteer effort.
About ballot access – I spoke by phone with Paulie about different states several days ago and do intend to try to get on in at least 4 states and as many as we can.
Yes I am leaving for Tennessee and the LP state convention at DoubleTree Suites by Hilton Nashville Airport
2424 Atrium Way
Nashville, TN 32714
I will be in Nashville Friday afternoon and Saturday and maybe part of Sunday. If you are in Tennessee and wish to talk to me my cell # is 352 617 7098
that sucks…
15 sc, do you believe that advocating peaceful solutions is cowardly?
@24, 25, 27
Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, and Rick Perry hired paid petitioners as well, and I’m pretty sure that Santorum did too.
Some of you here know Gary Fincher. He used to collect a lot of signatures for the Libertarians in many states, among other things.
His most recent job in petitioning was collecting signatures for Rick Perry, and possibly also Mitt Romney, this past winter in Illinois and maybe Indiana.
He is currently unemployed in Indiana with serious health problems, including multiple drug resistant staph infection in diabetic sores that have caused a large part of his foot to be amputated and most of his leg will also have to amputated if it hasn’t been already.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled comment thread.
Posted by John Wayne Smith on a separate BTP thread
http://bostontea.us/node/1104
I am going to the Tennessee LP Convention over the weekend of March 24th and 25th. Any one in Tennessee wants to meet me can do so at the LP convention address.
My Cell number is 352 617 7098
John Wayne Smith
Well, *somebody* has to keep Eric Dondero productively employed.
Too bad those “somebodies” are involved in politics and not the owners of a McDonald’s!
Via BTP nomination thread:
John Wayne Smith has a campaign site now:
votejohnwayne.webs.com
I know that Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, and Rick Perry hired paid petitioners as well, and I’m pretty sure that Santorum did too.
Well, *somebody* has to keep Eric Dondero productively employed.
“Humongous Fungus // Mar 22, 2012 at 10:20 am
@20
What percentage would you estimate were volunteer in Virginia, Illinois, Indiana and Pennsylvania? The impression I have received is that the bulk were paid, and that they paid more than they had to, especially in terms of expenses, because they waited for their volunteers to produce more than they in fact did time after time, state after state.”
It’s hard to say for sure, but the majority of signatures in Illinois came from volunteers, however, the Ron Paul campaign would not have made it there if not for the paid petitioners pumping up the signature total, and the Ron Paul campaign did spend more money than necessary in Illinois by waiting until the last minute to hire petitioners.
The majority of signatures in Indiana were collected by paid petitioners.
I’m not sure about Virginia, but I know a good portion there were collected by paid petitioners.
Pennsylvania got a good number of volunteer signatures, but a good number of signatures came from paid petitioners as well.
The Ron Paul campaign also used a paid petitioner in Rhode Island, although most of the signatures there were collected by volunteers.
The Ron Paul campaign used all volunteers in the easiest states that require petition signatures like Montana and Alabama where only 500 valid signatures are required for Republicans and Democrats to appear on the primary ballot.
Most states do not require the Democrats or Republicans to gather petition signatures to be on the primary ballots, or they have a process where a candidate does not have to gather petition signatures if they get media attention.
The bottom line is that the Ron Paul campaign had a higher than average amount of volunteer signatures for a campaign, but they still had to hire paid petitioners to ensure that they got on the ballot in the most difficult states.
I know that Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, and Rick Perry hired paid petitioners as well, and I’m pretty sure that Santorum did too.
Ogle has withdrawn from the nomination
Starchild @15, in your campaigns for public office do you have Jim’s courage to “speak truth to power” about how 9/11 and 11/22/63 were false-flag operations committed by the government?
@20
What percentage would you estimate were volunteer in Virginia, Illinois, Indiana and Pennsylvania? The impression I have received is that the bulk were paid, and that they paid more than they had to, especially in terms of expenses, because they waited for their volunteers to produce more than they in fact did time after time, state after state.
“Yet they still had to hire ballot access help in for the bulk of their petitioning in both 2008 and 2012. And it wasn’t because they did not try to get volunteers; they did. It’s because the volunteers woefully underproduced. Many people talked big, but came in with few or no signatures, signatures that were invalid on a variety of technicalities, or signatures sheets that were not signed off and notarized (or not notarized properly) by the circulators.”
The Ron Paul campaign did get a lot of volunteer signatures, but they still had to hire petitioners.
“I hate to sound like a party popper”
Whoops, should say pooper.:)
It should be pointed out that one way people volunteer is by donating money. A person may not have the time to gather petition signatures, lick and stamp envelopes, knock on doors, make phone calls, put up signs, etc…, but they can still volunteer some of their money to a campaign to pay for such things.
“If you think the BTP can mobilize volunteers better than the LP, the Constitution Party, Ron Paul, or any of the big name Republicans, I wish you lots of luck, but I wouldn’t bet on your success.”
I hate to sound like a party popper, but I doubt that many people are going to be inspired to volunteer for a party that is not going to be on enough ballots to even have a theoretical chance to win the election.
Starchild said: “I wish cowardice were more often owned for what it is, instead of hiding under the cloak of “pragmatism”. I am not always brave, and I don’t hold others to such a standard, but dammit, when someone on our side stands up bravely for freedom, they deserve to be honored and celebrated!”
Right on!
“You’re right that it is ultimately about the people, not the money.”
The fact of the matter is that it helps if the people have money.
Jim @6 – Excellent comments, especially this:
“20% were philosophically on the side of the Revolution but unwilling to stick their neck out. Today, those people would be found in large numbers in the Libertarian Party afraid to call the king a tyrant or otherwise speak Truth to power.”
I wish cowardice were more often owned for what it is, instead of hiding under the cloak of “pragmatism”. I am not always brave, and I don’t hold others to such a standard, but dammit, when someone on our side stands up bravely for freedom, they deserve to be honored and celebrated!
You’re right that it is ultimately about the people, not the money.
Hopefully the other candidates for the BTP nomination will answer about their ballot access plans, especially John Wayne Smith. Hopefully someone will call his attention to this thread.
Kleptocracy wrote:
Keep writing like that and one of the first drones will be sent over your house !
The Prez can now have “anyone” taken out !!
—————————-
That’s a risk I’m willing to take. Thank God men like Sam Adams and Samuel Whittemore were willing to take similar risks. If not for their bravery. We would still be talking with that funny British accent and swearing allegiance to a so-called king in England.
In Liberty, with Eternal Vigilance,
Jim Duensing
States requiring 1,00o valid signatures or less (all numbers are valid signatures, you’ll need 150-200% of that to be safe):
Tennessee – 275 signatures, no party label, independent ticket, slate of electors from each congressional district plus at large (this may be the rule in every state, but I only know of a few for sure). Deadline Aug 16.
New Jersey – 800 signatures, independent ticket with party label, deadline July 30.
Independent ticket with 1,000 each:
Arkansas – party label – Aug. 1 deadline.
Idaho – no party label – Aug. 24 deadline.
Mississippi – no party label – Sept 7 deadline.
An earlier deadline for full party with no signatures has already passed. Slate of electors from different parts of the state is needed.
Rhode Island – party label – Sept 7 deadline. There are only two congressional districts, so if a slate of electors is required it would be less of a problem here.
Utah – party label – Aug 15.
Vermont – party label – June 14. Only one congressional district, so if a slate of electors is needed all three can be at large.
Washington State – party label – Aug 28.
The next easiest levels:
1,500 valid: Iowa, with party label, by Aug 17.
Wisconsin, 2,000 with party label by Aug 7.
Minnesota, 2,000 with party label by Aug 21 (may start May 21).
It goes up from there, probably outside of what you could realistically hope to raise.
To keep up with what the BTP did in 2008, go for Colorado, Louisiana and Tennessee (swapping out Louisiana for Florida). In 2008 the BTP paid people (Andy and Paulie) in at least two of the three states they got. Florida needed a slate of electors only, most of which were gathered volunteer by John Wayne Smith, but they still needed paid help.
To do better than in 2008 start by adding NJ. However, if a slate of electors is required, NJ has a lot of districts – you may want to do RI and VT instead, or perhaps Arkansas and Mississippi since they are close to Tennessee and Louisiana.
If you manage all that, your next target should be Idaho, Utah and Washington State, all contiguous to each other (and Utah is contiguous to Colorado).
Next, if you have managed all of those successfully, go for Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin (again all states sharing at least one border with the next).
I don’t think you should aim any higher than that unless a lot of money starts to come in. Which I would bet against.
Keep writing like that and one of the first drones will be sent over your house !
The Prez can now have “anyone” taken out !!
LP members can take comfort in the membership pledge, it just may keep us alive in the not too distant future !!!
Zero Aggression Principle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXkydzqPC6M
“The largest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and prosperity,” warns Czech President Vaclav Klaus, “is no longer socialism. It is, instead, the ambitious, arrogant, unscrupulous ideology of environmentalism.”
“Many, if not most, of the criticisms of libertarians I have read revolve around how the ZAP is interpreted. Some critics argue that libertarians are pacifists. Others argue that one or more core concepts of “The State” are good or “necessary evils”. Still others claim that libertarians will strike out and kill anyone who angers us using the excuse that the other person initiated force. On the other hand, anyone with a functional intellect can see and understand when force has been initiated. Carrying a gun in your holster is not initiating force, even if a hoplophobe sees it and has a panic attack. Pointing that gun at a person who is making an obscene gesture at you in traffic is initiating force. Taking a person’s property from them while implying that there will be consequences if the person does not comply is initiating force. Asking for a donation is not. The critics just don’t get it and are not thinking. They ignore the word “initiate” in almost all cases. Probably intentionally, since they have no other argument.” -Kent “Dull ‘Hawk” McManigal, http://www.dullhawk.com/libertarianism.html
@8 Good luck with that.
The alt parties and Republican candidates (including Ron Paul) all want energetic people to do ballot access, and try to get them to. But they still end up having to pay people.
Getting energetic people in the right states, at the right time, and getting them to follow through on their commitments and to do all the paperwork correctly has proven too difficult for campaign after campaign, time after time.
As a Ron Paul volunteer, I’m sure you know that Ron Paul has many enthusiastic volunteers.
Yet they still had to hire ballot access help in for the bulk of their petitioning in both 2008 and 2012. And it wasn’t because they did not try to get volunteers; they did. It’s because the volunteers woefully underproduced. Many people talked big, but came in with few or no signatures, signatures that were invalid on a variety of technicalities, or signatures sheets that were not signed off and notarized (or not notarized properly) by the circulators.
If you think the BTP can mobilize volunteers better than the LP, the Constitution Party, Ron Paul, or any of the big name Republicans, I wish you lots of luck, but I wouldn’t bet on your success.
And it does not take a million dollars, at least not in the easier states. More about that in a minute.
The states where you don’t need signatures and the deadline hasn’t passed:
Colorado: Pay $500 filing fee, independent presidential ticket with party label by June 4. Not sure about presidential elector rules.
Florida: Full party must “be organized” by July 15, but this will not work for the BTP this time because it can’t file with the FEC and Florida law has been changed to require this. Independent candidate access is difficult.
Louisiana: Pay $500 filing fee, independent presidential ticket with party label by Sept. 4. Louisiana does require a set of electors from each Congressional district, plus at large, to submit paperwork to the SoS as well.
There’s more than one way to skin a cat. If I could raise a million dollars in a money bomb, I’d pay people too. But, since I doubt that will happen this cycle, we’ll have to rely on the kind of energetic committed people I described above.
Unless/until you have enough volunteers to get the job done, it’s about money at least to some extent. And getting volunteers to actually get signatures, as opposed to talking about it, particularly on time and in the correct format with all the numerous technicalities correctly fulfilled, and in the exact states you target, is a lot harder than it sounds.
That’s why the Libertarian Party, Constitution Party and other more established parties that have to get ballot access signatures have to hire people.
What about Ron Paul and the other candidates for the Republican nomination – they get lots of media and Ron Paul at least has a lot of volunteers. They must get all their signatures on a volunteer basis, right?
Well, no. They all got the bulk of their signatures – and they don’t need nearly as many as a third party does – by paying people.
Including Ron Paul.
@ Andy
The Lifeblood of politics is not money. It is People.
The message of this campaign resonates with people across all socio-economic lines. It is a populist message and a philosophical one. The Boston Tea Party is a grassroots party committed to personal liberty.
I’m only real familiar with the ballot access rules here in Nevada. I have seen some states which are very easy to get on the ballot and some which are practically impossible for any third party to get on the ballot. The LP spends most of its annual budget every year in fruitless efforts to get on these last handful of states.
Obviously the ballot access plan will start with the low hanging fruit to get on as many of the “easy” states as quickly as possible. Some of them are just a form.
And, frankly if they can steal the election from Ron Paul, they will be able to steal it from any third party candidate. This effort is not about winning the race in 2012. I think if we can get on some ballots in a couple of states and then campaign heavily in those states, we might be the difference in the race in that state. The last couple of elections have been such that any one or two states will change the winner of the national race. That’s political power. And, it is going to take strong and courageous principled people to be the backbone of that effort.
Thus, this effort is not about 51% in 2012. It is about 3%. Just 3% of the American colonists were active in their Local Militias – before they were Constitutional. That 3% of Americans willing to stand up to Tyranny was enough to secure our Liberty from a tyrannical government thousands of miles away back in 1775.
Back then, a third of Americans were loyalists. Today, they would be devoted tv watchers of MSNBC, CNN, or FOX prpaganda. A third were neutral.
20% were philosophically on the side of the Revolution but unwilling to stick their neck out. Today, those people would be found in large numbers in the Libertarian Party afraid to call the king a tyrant or otherwise speak Truth to power.
10% gave aid and comfort in the form of food, underground railroads, and treasure.
3% were in the field risking their Life and spilling their blood to secure freedom for themselves and us their posterity. These were men like Samuel Adams, Samuel Whittemore, Crispus Attucks, Paul Revere, and John Hancock. That’s the 3% I want on my side of the political fight.
From there, we’ll get the additional ten percent. That 13% constitutes a real political base.
But, the key is people. And, first, I want the 3% of Americans who have absolutely had enough of this Tyrannical Bullshit. I want the people who are ready to defend their Liberty and the Liberty of their children against all enemies – foreign and domestic – terrorist or tyrant.
The kind of people that even if we lose on the electronic voting machines, we’ll still ride the terrorists and the tyrants out of our towns on a rail to take our country back.
It’s not about money. It’s about people.
In Liberty, with Eternal Vigilance,
Jim Duensing
http://www.VoteForAChange.US
“Jim Duensing // Mar 21, 2012 at 11:13 pm
I plan to get on as many ballots as possible in 2012 and help build a grassroots bottom up organization full of real Patriots who are really committed to taking our country back.”
Well you’d better raise some money then.
I plan to get on as many ballots as possible in 2012 and help build a grassroots bottom up organization full of real Patriots who are really committed to taking our country back.
Of the 5 candidates thus far, only Jim Duensing has discussed ballot access with me.
I can’t imagine things could get much worse for the BTP. But I might suggest, before you vote for a person, you ask them their plans for ballot access.
Their stance on issues should be secondary to this one thing. You might also ask how much of their own money that plan to spend on the campaign of on social media.
I am not sure but I do believe the BTP has been removed even from the Florida ballot.
Just a thought on strategy. Good luck.
Also nominated, seconded and accepted:
-John Wayne Smith
-Joy Waymire
-Robert Milnes (at least I think he seconded himself, although he didn’t formally say so yet)
-joogle, the USA parliament dude
http://bostontea.us/node/1103
As I understand it nominations will go through March 30, when the voting starts.