Still Report #41 – Roger Stone

From a release by the Bill Still campaign:

Good evening from Washington, I’m Still reporting on the Libertarian Party Presidential race.

In the Preamble to the Libertarian Party Platform of 2010, the second sentence contains a very interesting concept – a truly unique concept in all of American politics:

“We believe that … force and fraud must be banished from human relationships.”

But this year, most of the LP leadership has essentially disavowed this noble concept in favor of a new one: “anything goes to get a few more votes; even the use of force and fraud??? No problem.”

Now before I go on, I’m going to say this may be the last time I talk about this. Watch it, do your own research, believe it or ignore it. I’m tired of having to go negative on Gov. Johnson, but as I’ve said before, his candidacy represents a takeover of the Libertarian Party — not only by the Republican Party — but the most nasty, pro-Federal Reserve wing of the Republican Party.

That’s the only thing that can possibly explain the mindless two-pronged Johnson economic policy:

So who is behind this takeover of the LP?

This guy, Andrew Miller — the one in the pink shirt – is sitting with Gov. Johnson at breakfast a couple of weeks ago in Georgia. He and a gorgeous black-haired Australian woman have been in the Johnson entourage until they disappeared at the California convention. They had been with Gov. Johnson since the first convention he showed up at in Manhattan.

However, what I found out in California was that Miller and the beautiful Australian actually work for this man, Roger Stone, probably the dirtiest of the American political consultants.

Stone is known as Richard Nixon’s dirty trickster. I was told that Stone even has a tattoo of Nixon on his back. I didn’t really believe that until I Googled his name and this picture came up.

Stone calls himself “a GOP Hitman”. Hitman??? Is that what we really want the LP to be all about? Really? Like the mafia in charge of the LP?

A famous Stone quote when he was working for Nixon was “By night I’m trafficking in the black arts.”

Time magazine claimed that it was Stone who was behind the controversial Willie Horton ads when he was working for George HW Bush in 1988.

In late February – less than a month ago — Stone suddenly announced – after spending 40 years at the top levels of the Republican party — that we was changing over to the LP.

Here is another Stone quote: “Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack.”

How can any Libertarian not understand the danger. This is a guy who has made his living for at least 40 years by the initiation of force and fraud on the American body politic?

At the Michigan convention a couple of weeks ago, I called on Gov. Johnson to denounce Stone and deny any affiliation with him, and to fire him.

I also called on my fellow Presidential candidates to denounce Stone’s role in LP politics. To date, not a one of them has joined me.

I’m Still reporting from Washington. Good evening.

Read the original here.

80 thoughts on “Still Report #41 – Roger Stone

  1. John Balzer

    Still is scary crazy. Excuse me if I can’t warm up to a man afraid of his own shadow. At a less than 2% in the polls, he should not be using his Libertarian fuel to cut down his compatriots.

  2. Rob

    Still: I can get 0.2% of the vote if I am the nominee.

    Johnson: I can get 0.4% of the vote if I am the nominee.

    The battle is so fierce because the stakes are so low. The four decades of frustration show known as the LP continues….

  3. Jill Pyeatt

    I don’t think we should dismiss what Mr. Still is saying. I have only heard bad things about Roger Stone. Is it possible the Republican party might have something to gain by compromising our party?

    Of course they do.

  4. Thomas L. Knapp

    I’m not a Still fan in particular, but he does the LP a service by not leaving the issue of Stone alone.

    Stone’s most recent significant political activity seems to have been a successful attempt to torpedo continuing ballot access for the New York LP.

    Before that, 40 years working as a hatchetman for the LP’s opponents.

    40 years ago, Stone’s friends had to break into the Watergate to do their dirty work. I suppose inviting him in and maybe handing him a spare key would make things simpler all around this time, but simpler /= wiser.

  5. Robert Capozzi

    Well, that was interesting. Holding the pooch at the end was a nice touch – bizarre, but nice.

    The Stone factor continues to be a cause of concern. I certainly don’t have enough information to take a view of it one way or the other.

    Still seems to want us to believe that this is some sort of Federal-Reserve wing of the GOP, but he presents zero evidence other than Miller’s pic and allusions to a gorgeous, black-haired Australian woman. That he presents no evidence causes me to be more skeptical of Still, actually, since I can’t imagine how he would put such a thin case out there and expect others to buy into it.

    I’ve not seen his documentary, but is this the quality-level he puts out?

  6. Bill Wood

    I wish Bill Still would spend more time talking about who he is and where he stands on the issues. Since 2000 I have been LP Chair of the District Bill lives in and or the Virginia State Chair, I live one county over from him and I never heard of him until he started his run for the LP nomination. We had a short conversation one night a couple months ago.

  7. NewFederalist

    The greatest slogan of all time: B. Still for President… the others are loud enough!

  8. Jeremy C. Young

    Still may not realize it, but he’s essentially campaigning for Wrights at this point. With the collapse of Harris’ campaign and Still’s failure to gel into a polished candidate, the race has come down to an asymmetric battle between Johnson and Wrights. By attacking Johnson in this manner, Still brings both himself and Johnson down, which can only benefit Wrights. A betting man would have to put their money on Johnson as the overwhelming favorite, but I’m starting to think that Wrights has a real, if unlikely, chance to pull the upset, or at least to emerge as Johnson’s VP candidate.

  9. Robert Capozzi

    10 jcy, possible. However, if I have the Wrights mindset scoped reasonably accurately, he would consider GJ to be a “statist,” part of the problem. VPs are generally supposed to subsume their views to the top of the ticket, and I can’t imagine Wrights endorsing several of GJ’s positions.

    Should GJ secure the nomination, I would be surprised if LW stood for the veep slot.

  10. johncjackson

    My takeaway: Roger Stone is a bad guy because he does politics- which is obviously unacceptable for a political party that has made the decision to at least pretend to do politics rather than engage in all the other possible libertarian avenues for improving the world.

    BTW,
    Does the LP platform address the Fed?

  11. Jeremy C. Young

    Robert @12, I think Wrights would do exactly what Steve Kubby did in 2008: offer himself as a VP candidate to unify the party. That’s the ultimate result of Wrights’ “stop all war” message isn’t it? Besides, I’ve heard Wrights speak warmly of Johnson before he got into the race. He didn’t say he’d stand aside for him, but he said that Johnson was one of many voices working for liberty and that it would be fantastic if Johnson won the GOP nomination. I don’t get the sense that he sees Johnson as the enemy, only as an opponent.

  12. Steven Wilson

    Still cannot speak of his ideas nor of his passion because there isn’t any. The reason you use burn to learn is to help the voters understand the candidate in their true form (which is the form the opponent wants). What ever that form may take.

    Stone has used it before and if Gary Johnson is wise, just let Still bark at him.

    Johnson stays on message, answers all incoming questions directly, and keeps his eye on state conventions, he will win.

    Reacting to burn to learn is all bad. Defending yourself against Still is a waste of resources. It also takes away from your candidates platform. Johnson has real problems ahead. He needs to focus on the convention, matching funds, bridging to Ron Paul Nation. In that order.

    As long as Johnson answers all questions at the time they are placed, no worries.

    Still has no credibility.

  13. justwondering

    I was going to write a long rant about how ALMOST EVERYONE who posts on IPR are paranoid and crazy. But what’s the point! And you people wonder why The LP has never elected anyone to a political office of significance. Oh how I wish I could be in Las Vegas to see the look on the so-called radicals faces when Gary Johnson wins on the 1st ballot.

  14. Darryl W. Perry

    “The LP has never elected anyone to a political office of significance”

    The LP elected several State Rep’s during the 1980’s & early 1990’s – I guess you don’t consider State Rep “a political office of significance”

  15. William Saturn

    what is the “gorgeous black-haired Australian woman” supposed to represent?

  16. justwondering

    A couple of state legislators from Alaska in the 80’s and 90’s. Significant? A City Council Member here and there? Not Really. But We
    Are “The Party of Principle” and we may never win anything but we have principles.

  17. NewFederalist

    Actually, the LP has never elected a State Senator as I recall. A couple State Representatives in Alaska and New Hampshire and perhaps Vermont but that is it.

  18. Thomas L. Knapp

    JCY@14,

    “I think Wrights would do exactly what Steve Kubby did in 2008: offer himself as a VP candidate to unify the party.”

    As one who encouraged Steve do do that — and then to stick with the LP and ask others to do so despite the delegates’ decision to nominate a conservative Republican ticket instead of a libertarian one — I have to say that I regret it and hope Wrights doesn’t do the same thing.

    The LP’s “OOH! SHINY OBJECT!” wing isn’t going to learn to stop shitting the bed until the LP’s libertarian wing lets it lie in the bed for awhile and feeds it some Ritalin, instead of changing the sheets for it, giving it a sponge bath, and pretending nothing untoward happened.

  19. Thane Eichenauer

    Should anybody happen to wonder what Johnson’s position is on the Federal Reserve he has made a 57 second clip available:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuBpc6_o-5g

    Summary: Johnson is no pro-Federal Reserve propagandist.

    As for Roger Stone, I don’t think that after 8 years of being governor of New Mexico in a fashion that IMO most Libertarians would likely rate as being in conformance with the ideals of limited government that Stone is capable of corrupting Johnson into becoming Nixon II.

    RC@7
    Watching his movie Money Masters was a good use of my time which makes Still’s post all the more disappointing.

  20. Tom Blanton

    Garsh, with Roger Stone in the LP, how can the LP lose?

    This guy knows how to “do real politics.”

    Wayne Root should make him his campaign manager.

  21. Nicholas Sarwark

    @21: You realize that every time a dedicated Libertarian leaves the party, that alters the balance of power in a negative direction, right? And that those of us who care about the party and its direction are peeved about the lack of allies from those who would otherwise agree with us, but took their ball and went home.

  22. Thomas L. Knapp

    Nick@27

    Yes, I realize those things.

    I took my ball and went elsewhere (not home) once I judged that the LP had become some combination of unsalvageable and/or not worth salvaging.

    In your opinion, it may still be salvageable and/or worth salvaging.

    All I’m saying is that if you believe that to be the case, the best way to go about it may be to let the people pushing it in the wrong direction suffer the consequences of their mistakes fully themselves, instead of sharing the burden and empathizing with them.

  23. wes wagner

    TK@29

    Don’t forget … when the people have suffered enough, John Galt has to return to show them a new path…

    I know this story … and it may be time.

  24. Marc Montoni

    The LP’s “OOH! SHINY OBJECT!” wing isn’t going to learn to stop shitting the bed until the LP’s libertarian wing lets it lie in the bed for awhile and feeds it some Ritalin, instead of changing the sheets for it, giving it a sponge bath, and pretending nothing untoward happened.

    Good one, Tom. Sums it up nicely.

  25. Richard Winger

    The Libertarian Party elected one Alaska state legislator in 1978 and two in 1980 and one in 1984. The Libertarian Party elected four state representatives in New Hampshire in 1992 and four in 1994 and one in 2000. The Libertarian Party elected one state rep in Vermont in 1998. That’s 12 state legislative victories.

  26. Humongous Fungus

    @30 When have the people suffered enough?

    And as far as the victories of the LP and other alt parties, many times they are not in the form of electing anyone to office.

    I’ve talked to successful, major party politicians who have admitted to changing some of their positions based on having run against alt party candidates, among other things.

  27. Wes Wagner

    TK @33

    Well I don’t think any libertarians would accept a John Galt … but collectively the people who left do represent the most ethical and productive of the party’s now departed citizens.

    At some point they should return and take back what is rightfully theirs.

  28. ralph swanson

    @ 19

    What, this fascist nonsense again?

    They said we couldn’t put people in non-partisan elected office. We did.

    They said we couldn’t get people appointed. We got them appointed.

    They said we couldn’t get people in local or legislative partisan elected. We did.

    Now we’re focusing on building the farm team. They’re infiltrting the party and doing everything they can to stop it, saying we only have a few offices and don’t have enough and should quit and should ditch the platform, pledge and program and get real.

    They’ll say we have no one in Congress, then only a few, then not enough, then not good enough.

    Someday we’ll have a President that sends everyone an investment check instead of requiring taxes and an economy that provides all-day ice cream cones that only cost a cent as the song goes instead of wars.

    And they’ll complain we don’t have a Pope.

  29. Gene Berkman

    Still says “Time magazine claimed that it was Stone who was behind the controversial Willie Horton ads when he was working for George HW Bush in 1988.”

    That is not true. Actually, Al Gore made ads about Willie Horton when he was running against Dukakis for the Democrat Party nomination in 1988. James Pinkerton saw the ads and alerted the Bush campaign to them, and the Bush leaguers plagiarized Al Gore.

    For what it is worth, Pinkerton says he voted for Roger MacBride for President in 1976 and Ed Clark for Governor of California in 1978 before returning to Republican politics with the Reagan campaign in 1980.

  30. Jeremy C. Young

    Tom @21, do you really think Johnson is a “conservative Republican ticket”? I think the comparison of him with Barr is false. Johnson isn’t a perfect fit for the LP, but he’s probably a better fit than any other elected official at the federal or state level, including Ron Paul. What’s more, I think he’s a center-libertarian, which makes him a great compromise between the left and right wings of the party.

    If I were a Libertarian I’d still vote for Wrights, but I’d be following my heart instead of my head; my head would tell me to vote for Johnson.

  31. George Phillies

    @42 The comparison with Barr is false.

    Yes, that’s true. Barr went through the motions of switching parties well before he ran for our nomination; Johnson did not. Barr did not spend any of his Libertarian donations to pay off old Republican campaign debts. Johnson is doing that hand out over fist

  32. Jeremy C. Young

    George @42, you’re right about the campaign debt issue, and I’m disappointed that Johnson hasn’t made an effort to address it. On the other issue, I disagree.

    Imagine you’re a Republican, and Joe Lieberman and Dennis Kucinich come up to you and say they want to switch parties. Lieberman says, “I want to be a Republican because my views fit better in the GOP, and I’m going to keep doing exactly what I’m doing.” Kucinich says, “I want to be a Republican because I’ve realized that everything I believed in was wrong, and I’m going to be a model Republican.” Which do you pick?

    I’d take Joementum in a heartbeat, because I’d know I could trust him to be exactly the same guy he’s been all along, apostasies and all — and because he’s pretty damn close to my views overall. I’d avoid Dennis like the plague, because I’d know he was lying to me to get ahead, even though he promised to be a more loyal Republican.

    The idea that the guy who wrote DOMA is more Libertarian than the guy whose signature issue is ending the drug war is laughable.

  33. Lavra

    @44 “The idea that the guy who wrote DOMA is more Libertarian than the guy whose signature issue is ending the drug war is laughable.”

    +1

  34. George Phillies

    Anyone who trusts Lieberman will regret the decision.

    However, I would welcome Lieberman and Kucinich, but remind them that they may have converted, but they are not about to be made the next Pope, and becoming a Presidential candidate immediately is equally absurd.

  35. Jeremy C. Young

    I’d say that’s his second-most-signature issue. Drug war is first.

    I’m not arguing about the merits of supporting Johnson for the nomination; as I mentioned, were I a Libertarian I’d be supporting Wrights. I’m just saying he’s nowhere near as bad as Barr was. As a third-party supporter, I was angry when Barr won the LP nomination in 2008; I had to give apologetics to my Democratic friends about why the LP had nominated such a tool. If Johnson wins this year, I won’t be angry, just disappointed — and I won’t feel the need to apologize for him. That’s a big difference.

  36. Thomas L. Knapp

    JCY@42,

    —–
    Tom @21, do you really think Johnson is a “conservative Republican ticket”?
    —–

    Um, no. I thought I was pretty clearly referring to Barr/Root 2008 there.

    A Johnson ticket wouldn’t be a “conservative Republican ticket.”

    It would be a “socially moderate, economically retarded Republican who was rejected by 99% of his own party and now hopes the LP will get him a government welfare check to pay off his Republican campaign debt” ticket, with whatever modification the VP nomination adds to that.

  37. Robert Capozzi

    I’m not sure GJ has one “signature” issue. I’d say if there’s one, it’s Submit a balanced budget in year one. Governor Veto might be a close second.

    His positioning seems more like Moderate Ron Paul sans Newsletter Baggage.

    48 jcy, if you’re not a L, why on earth would you get angry or upset by a L nominee? Some prominent progressives were pretty positive on the Barr nomination at the time, btw. They liked his civil liberties stances and views on Iraq, and were probably hoping that his campaign would hurt McCain.

  38. Chuck Moulton

    His “signature issue” would either be what he talks about the most or what he is the most known for.

    He talks about the Fair Tax the most by far (turning completely unrelated questions into opportunities to tout the Fair Tax). Before he started his presidential campaign he was probably most known for his marijuana stance.

  39. Robert Capozzi

    54 cm, yes, that’s my understanding of a signature issue, too. Have you or anyone done an analysis of GJ’s public statements, weighing which subject gets the most play over time?

    If GJ gave the FAIR Tax the most play in ONE appearance, that wouldn’t qualify as a signature issue as I see it.

    Of course, I really wish he’d downplay/lose the issue, so I admit my bias.

  40. Kleptocracy And You

    Sour grapes! Still shows up to use the LP ballot access to sale more dvds and gets pissed that he wasn’t anointed the nominee ! Stone is NOT on the GJ payroll among other lies.

    If 67 to 73% of each state LP convention continues to vote for Gary Johnson in their straw polls it would be a crime if he loses the nomination. He will win on the first ballot. Get use to the idea. Keep moving at your local levels ! It seems about 2/3 of the LP realizes to reject a highly successful former 2-term Moderate libertarian Gov. as the 2012 nominee would be NUTS ! Why would you choose to side with the 27 to 33% nuts ?

    Past time for the LP to start actually being a player. The quicker the loser nebobs of negativity stop whining the better. Delusional ideas of national success will never happen until each member learns how to build and/or support a local LP organization (precinct/city/county/then state) ! Start rowing in the same direction, we’ll get there a lot quicker.

    Become a Delegate – http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/become-a-delegate

    Gary Johnson for President 2012: This Revolution Never Dies – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk12-OJ9vLM&feature=related

    Meet Gary Johnson – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boHvCmRm3SQ&feature=channel

    In 2012 Gary Johnson For President – http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=v1QyXfRQspE

    Johnson/Paul 2012 ! A major opportunity…..

  41. paulie

    Still says “Time magazine claimed that it was Stone who was behind the controversial Willie Horton ads when he was working for George HW Bush in 1988.”

    That is not true. Actually, Al Gore made ads about Willie Horton when he was running against Dukakis for the Democrat Party nomination in 1988. James Pinkerton saw the ads and alerted the Bush campaign to them, and the Bush leaguers plagiarized Al Gore.

    No contradiction there. Al Gore’s ads did not get nearly as much play as Bush’s. Stone may well have been involved.

  42. paulie

    Stone is NOT on the GJ payroll among other lies.

    Everything gets routed through the campaign office in Utah, so we don’t know whether he is or is not.

  43. Jeremy C. Young

    Robert @53, I’m an advocate for third parties in general as a way for people to vote their consciences, not for the lesser of two evils. With Barr, I had to explain to people how the “party of principle” had been coopted by a odious, socially-conservative Republican who, it was clear to everyone I talked with, had no genuine interest in Libertarian issues. It wasn’t a fun conversation. Also, I had to watch the LP organization suffer from a demoralizing candidacy. It’s my view that if you can’t find a big name who genuinely agrees with the large majority of your beliefs — a Johnson for the LP, a Goode for the CP — then you should nominate a dedicated party activist who will grow the party from inside (a Badnarik for the LP, a Jill Stein for the CP). The LP didn’t do either in 2008, and I was sad that it cost them.

  44. NewFederalist

    I hope you meant “a Jill Stein for the GP” not the CP. I don’t see how she fits in with the CP.

  45. Robert Capozzi

    59 jcy, it’s one thing to not care for Barr, another to say he “coopted” the LP. He and the LNC wanted Ron Paul to bolt, and things unfolded as they did.

    It’s also not clear to me that the LP’s party activist prez candidates have been very useful in growing the party, as it has remained small throughout its history.

  46. Kleptocracy And You

    Someone PROVE Stone works for money for the campaign or please stop unfounded accusations that harm the campaign in some peoples minds. Volunteers work for free. Never known many LP candidates to reject unpaid volunteers.

    Funny to me anything is even said about the willie issue ad! Was it true or not what the ad said ?! If they weren’t so worried with imprisoning nonviolent drug offenders, Horton might have remained off the streets and wouldn’t have killed another innocent female (daughter, sister, wife, cousin, etc.) harming many family members lives !! Dukakis’ term watched over the Willie murder, he deserved what he got !!! Be thankful Willie didn’t stop at your loved ones home !!!! See any Willie Hortons under the Gary Johnson watch in NM ? NOPE !!!!!

    The Stones of the world play “hardball” politics. Nasty stuff to some, REAL politics to most who know how the game is played . Real politics is a dirty, bloody war in the trenches and I’m not so sure the LP, CP and GP couldn’t grow much faster by a little use of it against the DP and RP (the TRULY bad guys) !

    Gary Johnson wants to make ALL current illegal drugs a health issue, not remain a criminal justice issue. He wants MJ to be re-legalized NOW.

    I wish everyone would go to GJ’s sight and read his issues closely before making comments on things they misunderstand. (and try to see what you can agree with, NOT just something to oppose!) We must MOVE the masses in our direction BEFORE we can see our policies inacted into law ! Complete legalization of heroin and crack tomorrow morning still AIN’T saleing in 2012, but a mellow MJ legalization stategy led by a former highly successful two-term Gov. can make much headway in 2012. The journey begins with one first step! GJ will take that first step.

    GJ wins in round one. Now a major issue is weather the Paul forces will join the ticket as veep to actually put forth a serious Nov. alternative to the duopoly (or even triopoly if AE nominates) welfare/warfare party we now suffer under. A round one winner, well funded Johnson/Paul ticket rowing in one direction could be a real player in 2012 ……….

    Gary Johnson for President: The Revolution Never Dies – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk12-OJ9vLM&feature=related

    Gary Johnson 2012: Don’t Get Fooled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNXdoeF3KaM&NR=1

    YES Even $25 Can Help Get This Message To The Masses! Help Gary Spead the Message of Peace ! Donate to the Campaign Today ! – https://donate.garyjohnson2012.com/

    If you don’t support Gary yet, whynot send a donation to the LP ?! They need it and we need to do something for Liberty this week ! LP,ORG/

    Thanks!

  47. Jeremy C. Young

    Robert @62, my statement that Barr “coopted” the party is based on things like the involvement on Richard Viguerie and the takeover of TPW. He definitely went about some things in shady ways, which I’m not seeing from the Johnson camp this time.

    I think that the activist candidates help tread water effectively. To me, that’s better than destroying the party over a divisive figure like Barr or a showboater with no interest in hard work like McKinney. The best option is still a big name who can be a consensus builder. Honestly, while I’d vote for Wrights at the convention, I think the best outcome for the LP would be a Johnson/Wrights ticket that would unify the establishment and radicals and fight hard for traction in the general election.

  48. George Phillies

    Look at 63:

    It’s a Republican racist raising the Willie Horton flag again to attack a Democrat.

    The original law was signed by a Republican Governor.

  49. JT

    Jeremy: “…my statement that Barr “coopted” the party is based on things like the involvement on Richard Viguerie and the takeover of TPW.”

    TPW wasn’t a part of the LP. It was just one website that covered alternative parties.

    Jeremy: “To me, that’s better than destroying the party over a divisive figure like Barr or a showboater with no interest in hard work like McKinney.”

    Barr’s nomination was divisive and it didn’t help the LP, but he didn’t “destroy” the party either. It’s still active and the leading alternative party. Let’s not go overboard here.

  50. Jeremy C. Young

    I think it’s pretty clear that Baldwin’s nomination (the only one of the three I favored in 2008) helped the CP much more than Barr’s nomination helped the LP. Baldwin led his party to its best-ever showing, and more importantly he generated enough enthusiasm to weather a potentially disastrous ballot-access crisis. Some parties would have folded up shop upon losing an affiliate that provided them with one-third of their national vote total; the CP simply chugged along without it. I give Baldwin a lot of credit for that.

    If the LP had nominated Mary Ruwart, I’m pretty sure it would be in better shape than it is right now. There’s a small possibility that the child sex thing might have blown up further, but without the Barr and Root people driving it would anybody even have noticed? Meanwhile, state party activists would have been energized. Nominating someone like Baldwin is often a gateway to nominating someone like Goode; people see you have an effective organization with a party-building candidate, they are more likely to want to run with you.

  51. Robert Capozzi

    68 jcy: Nominating someone like Baldwin is often a gateway to nominating someone like Goode; people see you have an effective organization with a party-building candidate, they are more likely to want to run with you.

    me: It appears you are equilibrating Baldwin and Ruwart. Baldwin appears to’ve been a R until recent years, so that doesn’t work. Goode looks more like Barr, so that doesn’t work!

    What iffing history is a very tricky business, I’d say a fool’s errand. Neuroses inducing, even!

    It’s really hard to say what sort of shape the LP’d be in today if Ruwart’d been the nominee. It’d still be tiny, most likely. Some Rothbardian Ls may not have been alienated, that’s fair to say, I think. I see nothing in her approach that would have attracted the millions of moderate Ls into the LP, though. These “party-building” candidates might be effective in building what Rothbard called the “cadre,” but his Leninist approach has been discredited in my book. Others may well disagree.

    (Holtz somewhere or other has itemized how “radical” L candidates often soft pedal their message as their campaigns unfold. I suspect they start to realize how loopy the dogma sounds when they are speaking to the media, and they make adjustments to seem less offensive to, at least, the sympathetic.)

  52. paulie

    Someone PROVE Stone works for money for the campaign or please stop unfounded accusations that harm the campaign in some peoples minds.

    Not my fault that Johnson’s campaign freely chooses to keep a lot of its spending opaque in its FEC reports. i don’t have to prove anything and the suspicion is an entirely reasonable one. Stone is a professional political operative, so when he is involved with a campaign it’s not at all unreasonable to speculate that he may be paid. In any case, why does it matter whether he is paid or not? We know for a fact that Johnson’s campaign promotes Stone’s endorsement and that Johnson sat down with Stone for a friendly interview. Perhaps, if Johnson doesn’t have the money to hire Stone yet, he will hire him when the real money comes in post-nomination?

    The Stones of the world play “hardball” politics. Nasty stuff to some, REAL politics to most who know how the game is played . Real politics is a dirty, bloody war in the trenches and I’m not so sure the LP, CP and GP couldn’t grow much faster by a little use of it against the DP and RP (the TRULY bad guys) !

    Stone’s most recent hardball political operation was to kill the LP’s best ever chance for ballot access in New York State and destroy the personal life of the gubernatorial candidate who almost won that access, and would have won it if not for Stone. He did that so as to improve the chances of the Republican/Conservative candidate, Paladino (see his email exchange with Redlich where he says this openly), but the Republican nevertheless lost in a landslide to now Gov. Cuomo; so destroying the LP’s ballot access and Redlich’s family standing in his community was just collateral damage in a failed Republican campaign.

    If Stone now comes into the LP are his intentions open and honest, or is he here to destroy the LP from the inside? If his intentions are open and honest, will they remain that way? It’s kind of like getting a ride across the river to a scorpion; we know he’s a scorpion when we are picking him up, so we shouldn’t be surprised when he stings us midstream.

  53. JT

    I guess Libertarian delegates can take Stone into account when they vote on the nomination. I don’t personally think it’s going to hurt Johnson much. There are bigger considerations here.

  54. Kleptocracy And You

    I do not speak for the Johnson Campaign. I do however realize GJ should be the LP nominee. Last I heard Gary Johnson is now a paid member of the LP not the RP.

    There’s one thing for certain Phillies you don’t know how politics are run. Rejected every time but you keep coming back for more. You are the posterboy for LOOSERTARIAN! As for calling me a R and a R. All I’ll say is I was a dues paying member of the LP about two decades before I ever heard of you and I payed those dues with private funds I earned working in a private sector job. As for name calling I could lay some good ones on you buddy but I already suspect you live a pathetic existance, or you wouldn’t be you ! I highly recommend you not call people names to their face as that could result in the worst of politics.

    Convicted murderer Willie Horton raped and murdered a female while on a release from a MA prison. Facts are facts. Horton did what the ad said he did ! How that is racists, I don’t know. Some people can find gnat sh^& in ground pepper, I can’t.

    Imagine President Gary Johnson – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUEa7V3TgGQ&feature=related

    Imagine a balanced budget in 2013, less taxes taken out of your paycheck, a responsible monetary policy, health care entrepreneurs unleashed on a free market, a real national defense instead of nation-building, and an administration for whom LGBT is not a four-letter word.
    Imagine a President Gary Johnson.

    Join our team today

    Former two-term Gov. Gary Johnson had a BETTER performance in office than Romney and Obama combined. There was a 11.6 % increase in private sector jobs (the ones that count) under Gary Johnson’s administration.

    About Presidential Candidate Gary Johnson: Gary Johnson, a former Republican and highly successful two-term Governor of New Mexico from 1995-2003, has been a consistent and outspoken advocate for efficient government and lowering taxes.

    Gary Johnson 2012: LIVE FREE http://www.youtube.com/user/govgaryjohnson?feature=BF#p/u/2/R1MD6qoJJN0

    Oh yeah one last thing Phillies your poop STINKS too! Contrary to your lifelong beliefs and what your momma told you !!!

  55. George Phillies

    You have a private job. I have a private job, and have had one for decades (though at this point on average I make more money as a capitalist by investing).

    Imagine a President Johnson? Thanks, but I avoid LSD and more potent hallucinogens, not that I am sure that there are any strong enough to get the effect you are asking.

    You are a Republican-leaning race-baiter, as proven by your recycling of Mr Horton, a man released from prison under a law signed by a Republican. Is your candidate a race-baiter, too? Or is he embarrassed by you? There are reasons the Republicans are a lily-white party, and it it is invoking Mr Horton as a criminal that is one of those reasons.

    Johnson advocates the 30% fair tax, which is supposedly revenue neutral, at least until such radical changes in tax law wreck the economy.

    Yes, but mine gets flushed, but I suspect like most race-baiting Horton-invokers you would not fit down the drain pipe.

  56. Jose C

    The problem with Bill Still’s campaign is not that he criticizes Gary Johnson (Some believe Gary Johnson should be the Teflon candidate and is beyond criticism. I disagree. The attacks given to Bill Still, Lee Wrights, and other candidates because they dared to criticize Gary Johnson are proof of that some believe Gary Johnson is beyond criticism.) but that he does not give reasons why he should be our nominee for President.

    When he gave his speech at the Party convention in California Bill Still never mentioned why he deserved to be the nominee for President of the Libertarian Party. All he did was attack Gary Johnson. Contrasting your views with those of Gary Johnson should be done (sorry everyone he is not the Teflon candidate) but a candidate should also explain why they should be the candidate for President of the Libertarian Party.

    They should explain why they deserve to be President of the United States and hold the office held by Washington and live in the house of Jefferson, Lincoln, and Jackson.

  57. Eric Sundwall

    One of the reasons Kristin Davis didn’t show up to the LPNY convention in 2010 was because I played ‘hardball’ with Stone. I won’t go into details . . .

    I don’t think his nastygram derailed our effort per se. Despite a ‘Freedom Party’, a Taxpayer party, the Conservative Party and Anti-Prohibition Party, we managed to get more than double the previous best effort by the LPNY.

    This was a result of a great debate performance despite the distraction of the viral McMillan. Many, many media showings and we actually produced great tv and radio ads that ran in limited markets.

    That being said, Stone is no Godsend for the LP. He’s a political parasite of the worst order who wants to play libertarian and lost miserably in his first outing. By glomming onto Johnson, I’m sure his hope is this 5 percent/90 million hook will come true and he’ll be seen as some genius if it were to happen on some nominal level.

    I’m sure the LP will nominate GJ regardless of the Stone situation, but anonymous tweebs who hide behind their IPR handle are just the annoying rabble who toss pebbles while the alpha boys beat their chests.

  58. Robert Capozzi

    77 jc: (Some believe Gary Johnson should be the Teflon candidate and is beyond criticism. I disagree. The attacks given to Bill Still, Lee Wrights, and other candidates because they dared to criticize Gary Johnson are proof of that some believe Gary Johnson is beyond criticism.)

    me: Huh? Who believes GJ’s beyond criticism?

  59. paulie

    Klep to Phillies

    highly recommend you not call people names to their face as that could result in the worst of politics.[…] I’ll be seeing you posterboy !

    Threat of physical violence?

    Jose C

    When he gave his speech at the Party convention in California Bill Still never mentioned why he deserved to be the nominee for President of the Libertarian Party. All he did was attack Gary Johnson. Contrasting your views with those of Gary Johnson should be done (sorry everyone he is not the Teflon candidate) but a candidate should also explain why they should be the candidate for President of the Libertarian Party.

    Agreed.

    ES

    I don’t think his nastygram derailed our effort per se. Despite a ‘Freedom Party’, a Taxpayer party, the Conservative Party and Anti-Prohibition Party, we managed to get more than double the previous best effort by the LPNY.

    Given how close you came I think it is likely he made the difference.

    Don’t forget Rent is Too Damn High!

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