Thread for LNC meeting liveblogging

The Libertarian National Committee will have a meeting this weekend. This thread is set up so that those of you who wish to liveblog/discuss the meeting as it is happening can do so in the comments. IPR has been having ongoing comment lag issues where most people can’t see comments including their own for hours or up to a day later. However, you can see comments right away if you log in to the site. Email to get a site login and password so you can see the comments come in as we liveblog. I’ll try to update this post with links to reports, livestream etc later or would welcome edits from other IPR editors. Liveblogging comments will be on the IPR website, not any social media account where this may be reposted. Please follow link back to the website this weekend for liveblogging. Anyone who wishes may participate in the liveblogging in comments. You may want to get a site login from Warren Redlich ahead of time to see the discussion in real time.

130 thoughts on “Thread for LNC meeting liveblogging

  1. paulie Post author

    Will anyone here be at the meeting and willing to help liveblog from there if and when the livestream is not working?

  2. Chuck Moulton

    I am at the meeting. They are still setting up the stream. I will try to live blog. Fair warning though: I am going on no sleep.

    We sang Happy Birthday to Sam Goldstein and Steve Nakhalia. Then Nick told a joke about a snail. Then they congratulated me for finishing my Ph.D. They are doing paperwork check now. Public comment will wait until after the stream is up.

  3. paulie Post author

    Trying to revote on a couple of committee membership votes that were done over email. Nick thanks NoVA for party last night. Something about Ken Moellman being in town but not at the meeting yet.

  4. Carol Moore/

    Did anyone do a public comment? Too early for me to get there. Don’t have any medical operations today, like last two VA meetings! (or have there been three since Dec 2016?).

    I didn’t have time to figure WHO suggested the messed up voting process that ended up with people with fewer votes won, while those with more votes lost.

    So don’t have any conspiracy theories. HO HO HO!!

    Hear they are talking about that now as they did Ad nauseam on the LNC list.

  5. paulie Post author

    They tried an experiment with an electronic voting method. Now trying to revote/rescind/agree on voting method to fill committees. Sounds like a mess.

  6. Carol Moore/

    Candidate(s) were missing from the list and two LNC member’s votes not counted. Geez. What a mess. Not a good process for small voting bodies, obviously.

  7. paulie Post author

    There were public comments. I missed most of it because the feed was cutting out. Working most of the time now but still cuts out sometimes.

  8. Chuck Moulton

    Caryn Ann Harlos removed a few of her items from the agenda.

    Several LNC members — including Justin O’Donnell — asked about adding an agenda item to discuss the executive director search and staffing. Chair Sarwark said he will spend the bulk of his chair’s report time discussing the executive director search. Some members still wanted an executive session, which was added to the agenda after the special counsel’s report.

    Chuck Moulton (me) raised 3 issues in his public comment, which were covered in his email to the LNC: data sharing with affiliates, google docs, and the email list archive.

    Alicia Mattson moved to retake the ballots for populating the convention voting process and membership support committee by using approval voting instead of single transferable voting. She stated a number of issues: confusion about the voting method, the request to only vote for 9 candidates, two members not having their votes counted, one candidate was left off the ballot, plurality required instead of majority required for election, etc. Bill Redpath objects. Chair Sarwark thinks this should be a reconsideration instead of a retake motion. Caryn Ann Harlos says the votes did count; some LNC members forgot to take screenshots of their votes, but their votes were counted by OpaVote and their votes were reconstructed for the public voting record. Chair Sarwark rules the motion to retake out of order. There is a motion to rescind the vote. Bill Redpath objects. Redpath says STV is great for Libertarians and we should be using those systems internally as an example to others. Harlos concurs with Redpath and thinks the election results should stand. John Phillips asks whether the LNC could just add back in the uncounted votes instead of completely redoing the election. The chair says yes. Elizabeth Van Horn is more concerned about the candidate whose name was left off the ballot, which she believes alone is a reason to retake the vote. Justin O’Donnell says STV is designed for lots of voters and few candidates, which was not the case here. Whitney Bilyeu wants to know how the LNC would go about just adding in the two votes not counted. She things the do-over would be a dangerous precedent, and adds that she never wants to use this voting procedure again. The rescind motion passes 9-6 after the chair votes yes. Therefore, the election will be re-done… but later in the agenda. (It was first on the agenda because it had to be done before any other business was conducted.)

  9. Carol Moore/

    I missed something when left room. Did someone say they want the LNC to have all the names so LNC members can call and ask them questions? (Or harass them if they are considered ideologically INcorrect??)

    And then there’s lying Caryn Ann claiming that people already know who they are and are asking others for opinions.

    Henchman comes up with good issues about LNC/LP legal liability if LNC members contact candidates with illegal questions. We’ve had enough lawsuits/fines from FEC from sloppiness in past. (State bad!)

  10. paulie Post author

    Discussion of controversies over how Executive Director replacement process is being handled, especially sharing of information with LNC members and even officers. This has also been extensively discussed on the email list as has the voting methods thing.

  11. paulie Post author

    CAH to LNC email list 12 hours ago:

    I note I do not have the reports from:

    Region 4 Report
    Audit Committee
    Blockchain Committee
    Convention Oversight Committee
    Historical Preservation Committee (I have and am finishing up some
    additional facts)
    Youth Engagement Committee

    I did not include IT as it was only just populated.

    I have several past LNC members working with me on reviewing the potential
    style changes with the Policy Manual. We need more time – and this
    certainly is not critical.

    I am not satisfied I have the right language yet for my APRC and Policy
    retention policy manual amendments and ask for those to be withdrawn.

    However, consider this email prior notice that I anticipate these three
    items being ready at the Austin meeting.

  12. paulie Post author

    Feed cut out again. Tim was saying how we are finishing paying off the convention hotel from last year and they would still want us back again. P-break.

  13. Chuck Moulton

    They are now formally amending and adopting the agenda. Adding an item from Joshua Smith to the agenda was contentious but was added by a roll call vote (I’m not sure what the item was). Everything else was added by unanimous consent. The agenda was then adopted without objection.

    There were no further conflicts of interest.

    Sarwark began his report by mentioning that he swore in Jeff Hewitt to his county supervisor office. He also visited Minnesota for some lobbying. 35 people applied to the executive director position. The EPCC of Lark, Bishop-Henchman, and I forget who the third one is. The EPCC narrowed the possibilities down to 4 people, who the chair will be interviewing.

    I stepped out of the room for the rest of the chair’s report and the vice chair’s report. I heard (after the fact) at one point the vice-chair mentioned Spain, Dr. Lark said he will be traveling to Spain to give some addresses, then the chair pointed out Spain has not had a government for 9 months yet its GDP has gone up (to thunderous applause from the LNC and the gallery).

    The treasurer proposed some budget amendments moving money around, which passed without objection. Then the treasurer proposed an amendment adding $4k of expenses to pay the court costs to the winning party of a case we lost. Joe Bishop-Henchman objected and proposed an amendment asking staff to find offsetting cost reductions bringing the budget back into balance. Richard Longstreth echoed Bishop-Henchman’s concern that the budget remain balanced. The Bishop-Henchman amendment passed without objection, then the Hagan motion as amended passed by a roll call vote 14-0-2.

  14. Chuck Moulton

    Secretary Harlos points out she included some analysis of the OpaVote votes in her secretary’s report. She thanks Mattson for her corrections, which are making her a better secretary. She plugged the OneBook for this meeting and Lpedia. She also complimented the contact the whole LNC form on the website. Harlos is looking into style errors in the Policy Manual along with Chuck Moulton and Joe Dehn. Harlos publicly apologizes for any past snarkiness on the list toward Mattson and Van Horn and anyone else, and she will try to present herself better in the future.

    Harlos moves to approve the December LNC draft minutes version 8. Those minutes are approved without objection. Harlos moves to approve the February 19 executive committee minutes. The members of the executive committee approve those minutes without objections. Dr. Lark co-wins the easter egg hunt, and thus gets a chia statue of liberty. Joseph Bishop-Henchman co-wins the easter egg hunt, and wins something I didn’t hear. Jeff Lyons wins the next easter egg hunt with a liberty Madd Libs.

    The next agenda item is recess. The chair recommends instead that they move into executive session. Smith moves that the LNC move into executive session. I think that’s what his contentious motion from amending the agenda item was.

  15. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman Happy birthday to Sam Goldstein and Steven Nekhaila! And congrats to Chuck Moulton who recently got his PhD!

    Joe Bishop-Henchman First up: Mattson motion to redo the appointments to the Convention Voting and Membership committee using approval voting here at the meeting. The method used online resulted in some odd results. Two votes were also not counted and one candidate was left off the ballot.

    We’ve voted 9-6 to rescind those votes (Mattson motion).
    Yes: Bishop-Henchman, Goldstein, Hagan, Hewitt, Lark, Mattson, O’Donnell, Sarwark, Van Horn.
    Nay: Harlos, Longstreth, Merced, Nekhaila, Phillips, Redpath.

    Joe Bishop-Henchman Voted 11-3 to add an executive session agenda item to discuss the Executive Director search (Smith motion)
    Yes: Bishop-Henchman, Hagan, Harlos, Hewitt, Longstreth, Merced, Nekhaila, O’Donnell, Phillips, Smith, Van Horn.
    No: Bilyeu, Goldstein, Mattson.
    Abstain: Lark, Redpath, Sarwark.

    Joe Bishop-Henchman Voted 14-0 to increase our budget’s litigation costs $4,000 (for payment of Kentucky court costs on a lawsuit, split 50-50 with the Kentucky party, Hagan motion) while requesting a staff recommendation for $4,000 in offsets elsewhere. 3 abstentions (Goldstein, Merced, Sarwark), everyone else was yes. Thank you to Richard Tietjen Longstreth who with me moved that offset requirement.
    I just noticed the livestream is down and have notified staff.
    Moving into executive session to discuss the executive director search.

    Michelle Renea Ugh on not being able to hear or see this, but thank you for the updates.

  16. Chuck Moulton

    We’re out of executive session and eating pizza. There will be a presentation from an app developer who will spin a generic convention app into a customized app for our national convention.

  17. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman We have risen from executive session. 12:08 PM

    · Reply · 9m

    Paulie Cannoli
    Paulie Cannoli Still no feed

    · Reply · 1m

  18. paulie Post author

    They will make the presentation available as well for those who want to check it out without scrolling thru the ustream archives. Although CAH is adding indexing to those as well.

  19. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Thank you so much for the live-blogging. Most of us have gotten snarky in the past and the justification is often “well so and so does it to me.” We can’t control other people but we can control ourselves, and I know I can get my hackles up – but I am in full control of whether or not I let anyone push my buttons or how I react. I have had some health problems that really made me reflect on how I spend my time in both quantity and quality. Does this bring joy? If not… perhaps not worth it. But joy oftentimes is a decision not a feeling.

    The OneNote is up with limited notes (as I audio record the meeting) here:

    Follow the Live Voting tally here:

    Text me at 561-523-2250 with any feedback or questions as I will not be able to monitor here during very much.

  20. Chuck Moulton

    I was out of the room for a bit.

    The LNC is hearing from a vendor that would out-source LP store fulfillment (such as t-shirts). Interim executive director Lauren Daugherty points out she has been running LP fulfillment differently from her predecessor, going for profits. She didn’t say this, but Wes Benedict’s aim was to get out merchandise as cheaply as possible (even subsidized) to help with LP branding getting a lot of people seeing the LP logo. In contrast, Daugherty said she gets a 900% ROI on some items. Some LNC members want to know if the vendor wants an exclusive on LP items, or he wants to take for example shirts, and let the LP continue to fulfill pins and USB drives and other items. The vendor would make t-shirts on demand for a cost of $11, then sell them for $22 — a 50% margin without carrying any inventory.

    Next will be staff reports.

  21. Chuck Moulton

    Staff got 2,000 replies to an email asking “have you moved?” and Tyler Harris updated all of those addresses. Harris presented Jess Mears’ report since she could not be here. t-shirts have been effective in up-selling memberships. The text on the comment box with membership renewal has been changed to effectively encourage more feedback. The LP now has an intern.

    Lauren Daugherty pointed out she inherited $100,000 in debts when she took over as interim ED. Her top priority has been looking for ways to economize expenses and pay down that debt.

    Someone has cranked the room temperature up to the level of a sauna as a sort of social experiment.

    There was a high dollar donor event in Salt Lake City with Patrick Byrne at $500 / ticket. It sold out. This was pretty much the only high dollar dinner except for the $100 / person banquet dinner at the national conventions. Because it was so successful, there will be more. A high dollar dinner cruise is being planned.

    The State of the Union response was written by Andy Craig, delivered by Jeff Hewitt, produced by Boomer Shannon, and marketed by LP staff.

    New website highlighting the national debt. (23trillion and 24trillion are also owned)

    Daugherty’s philosophy is that certain things in LP Store should turn a profit, and others should be sold at cost. There are some pins with a 900% ROI. She has introduced limited edition t-shirts that are sold on the website, but not printed until we’re sure how many have been sold.

    Over 300 candidate prospects for 2020 already.

    Justin O’Donnell asked why not hire the vendor for t-shirts. Daugherty says she doesn’t want to divide up the store among two brands. She wants the LNC to give staff 6 months to prove itself before considering an outside vendor.

    Joe Bishop-Henchman pointed out the DC LP’s wildly successful park cleanup was organized primarily by Adam Theo (LPNOVA) and Jess Mears (staff).

    Caryn Ann Harlos is asking how many states are paying for the state CRM maintenance fee for support. Ken Moellman says there are around 5 paying right now, with more states sorting out FEC issues. States like the highest tier so they can get more Andy Burns support time.

    Justin O’Donnell asks what percentage of active donors are monthly pledgers. Lauren Daugherty says it’s around $30,000 / month. Robert Kraus says it’s about 15% of active donors. O’Donnell then asked about lifetime members. Kraus says 1/3 of monthly pledgers are lifetime members. On the other hand, 25% of lifetime members don’t donate in a given year.

    Chair Sarwark asked what the LNC should be doing the next 5 months. Daugherty says prepare for 2020. We may have a normal year or we may have a banner year. It’s hard to predict. In 2016 the website was blowing up with Gary Johnson sign orders because we could ship them much faster than the campaign. As a benefit, we got a lot of contact information we wouldn’t have otherwise had. We had to gear up with a lot of temporary staff doing fulfillment, which was money well spent.

    Staff reports are over, and some committees are being populated. The chair suggests opening up applications for the awards committee, which would then be voted on at the Austin LNC meeting.

  22. Chuck Moulton

    Julie Fox is not present to give an audit committee report. Redpath says she will be at the Austin meeting.

    Sarwark still needs to populate the affiliate support committee. LNC members should email their interest to Sarwark.

    Sam Goldstein says the candidate support committee hopes to schedule several (3?) campaign training sessions. If finances don’t permit three, then at least one.

    Daniel Hayes will give a report for the convention oversight committee.

  23. paulie Post author

    Discussing motion which designates conventions as special events. That would mean the revenue could not be diverted to pay for other things with paying the hotel deferred to later on.

  24. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman Debating the Convention Oversight Committee’s proposal to place convention revenue in a special fund that cannot be spent until after the close of the convention. I am opposing primarily because implementing now, in our current weak financial state, would greatly unbalance our budget.

  25. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman Convention funds special fund proposal is postponed 9-8.

    Yes: Bishop-Henchman, Lark, Merced, Nekhaila, O’Donnell, Phillips, Redpath, Sarwark, Van Horn.
    No: Bilyeu, Goldstein, Hagan, Harlos, Hewitt, Longstreth, Mattson, Smith.

  26. Chuck Moulton

    Has the convention book outlived its usefulness given smartphone apps?

    Hayes talked about charging for bylaws and platform amendment booklets. The LNC seemed generally receptive to this. Clearly there are a lot of new LNC members who don’t understand all of the loud protests that will erupt.

    Next he mentioned the convention slogan pay for play contest.

    Hayes clarified that the convention did not lose money. This leads in to the motion by Mattson designating national conventions as special events, which would require convention revenues to be held in designated funds, which can only be used to pay convention debts until after all convention debts have been paid off. She says it is the fiscally responsible thing to do.

    Bishop-Henchman agrees that the problem should be fixed, but says the problem was with the LNC budget, not cash management. It would pre-commit to choosing convention bills over paying staff salaries when there is a cash crunch. Instead Bishop-Henchman suggests better quarterly financial analysis processes to ring the alarm bells, or a budget committee to approve budget changes and maintain a balanced budget, or make the motion effective only after we hit the reserve goal to ensure staff salaries are safe. Kraus points out many convention bills aren’t even sent to us until September for a May convention. Therefore, that money would not be available to the general fund until September when the final bill is sent and paid. That would leave the money not available for ballot access May through September, which means we couldn’t get our presidential candidate on the ballot in about 5 states. Daugherty says she would feel much more comfortable with this motion if the LP had a large cash reserve; right now we have no cash reserve. Harlos says we shouldn’t raid money we haven’t earned yet (other people’s money) and should not breach contracts. Merced moves to postpone definitely until the December meeting (when hopefully the reserve will be higher and a budget will be set for the next year). The item was postponed until the fall budget meeting by a vote of 9-8-0 with the chair breaking the tie. Dr. Lark asked what would be required to take this up at the July meeting in Austin if LNC members come up with a great solution in the interim. Hayes pointed out you can’t postpone definitely beyond the next meeting, so in effect it was a motion to postpone indefinitely and can be brought up at the July meeting. Sarwark said there was no timely point of order, therefore a motion to rescind (majority vote with notice) would be the way to bring it up earlier.

  27. paulie Post author

    That would leave the money not available for ballot access May through September, which means we couldn’t get our presidential candidate on the ballot in about 5 states.

    I think it’s more than that. Way more than 5 petition drives are entirely or mostly paid between the convention and the end of the petition season in presidential years.

  28. paulie Post author

    Feed cut in and out and I was distracted so missed what happened with a motion about what happens when region reps abstain and alternates vote on the email list.

  29. paulie Post author

    Ah here it is…

    Joe Bishop-Henchman We adopted language clarifying that if a Regional Rep votes “Abstain” on an email ballot, the alternate’s vote is not counted.

  30. Chuck Moulton

    I ducked out for a long time. They debated a policy about how alternates vote on electronic mail ballots and voted on it I think. Then the meeting was adjourned until 9 am EDT tomorrow. (spring forward!)

  31. Carol Moore/

    Pretty boring in person too. I did my 3 hours so off my bucket list for another year or two.

    I like it better in bigger rooms where you can sit around the LNC members and whisper in their ear if necessary. ho ho

    To add to Chuck’s excellent summary, LP has this site now:

    Joe B-H was excellent on all those fine points of management – not to mention Robts Rules.

    He just has to control self and not want to fire off press releases on ID politics stuff before a) get all the facts (Northam claims it wasn’t him in black face and someone else stuck those pics on his page and he just found out about it; plus lots of people did Michael Jackson 30 years ago as mark of tribute) and b) think if we’d jumped to Jussie Smollet’s defense (though they’ll need video of the planning meetings for me to believe it) and c) LP can’t comment on all these bigotry incidents, including even by killer cops.

    Big nuclear arms race is underway… NUKE WAR IS COMING… let’s hear something about that… sigh…

  32. paulie Post author

    23trillionandme is ready to go for when the feds go underwater by another trillion in monopoly money.

  33. George Phillies

    If you use a vendor for T-shirts, do you get the contact information? If not using a vendeor is a terrible idea.

    Alicia is right in general about convention income, but perhaps fudnraising someplace for ballot acess would not need to be held until September.

  34. Carol Moore/

    I was hoping there’d be SOME LNC discussion of the top three Pay4Play Themes for 2020 Austin.
    TANSTAAFL ($3,540)
    Ancapistan ($3,382)
    Building Bridges, Not Walls ($1,010)

    TANSTAAFL first is unintelligible to the public at best and saying “fuck you” at worst.

    Ancapistan is an absurdly narrow ideological concept (and I can only assume it means a separatist anarchist capitalist entity which is fine but DECENTRALISM NOW! or SECESSION NOW! would be clearer way to say it in libertarian fashion).

    And Building Bridges, Not Walls may sound good – but it’s a VERY over used LEFT WING phrase.

    It has been insinuated there are big bucks in there that will pick the best of the top sixteen at the end, which means that whole thing is fixed anyway. So at least let’s fix it in a more representative way.

    Or CAN LNC reject any theme and even come up with their own at the end if they want to?

  35. Carol Moore/

    So by 5:00 they did NOT get to the “New Business with Previous Notice” section at all? Evidently a couple ideas were dropped anyway. We shall see today…

    Gosh darn, would have loved to be there for public comment at 9 AM either day, but health does not allow. I’d politely ream a lying little psycho LNC member who hopefully won’t run for LNC again. Quitting the K can rob one of energy, after all??

  36. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman We have resumed. Starting with discussion of the 2020 U.S. Census as an outreach/marketing opportunity.

  37. Carol Moore/

    Duh, forgot to turn on sound… And they are off, talking about 2020 census — and the feed keeps cutting out!

  38. paulie Post author

    I was hoping there’d be SOME LNC discussion of the top three Pay4Play Themes for 2020 Austin.

    I would go with 4 (Envision Liberty) which seems pretty obvious for 2020. Ancapistan should have been rejected and disqualified on Dallas Accord grounds. TANSTAAFL is gobbledygood to most people. I was a big fan of building bridges not walls last time, but test marketing the phrase with non-Ls it actually means government infrastructure projects to most people – butter vs guns type stuff. Maybe voting with dollars should be advisory. It seems to produce poor results. But maybe the big money is waiting on later rounds. I can only hope.

  39. paulie Post author

    TLK via JBH FB (how’s that for acronym soup?)

    Thomas L. Knapp “Lauren Daugherty pointed out she inherited $100,000 in debts when she took over as interim ED. Her top priority has been looking for ways to economize expenses and pay down that debt. Our outstanding balance will be zero as of this upcoming week.”

    As soon as I stop typing, I will stand up and clap for at least 60 seconds. That is GREAT NEWS and the right way to do things.

  40. paulie Post author

    Discussed Hospers biographical project. Blockchain Committee is next. Committee reports are on OneNote book linked above, Some also to LNC list.

  41. paulie Post author

    Youth engagement committee skipped. Aeris Stewart absent for personal reasons. If she submitted a report it may have been lost in an email glitch. Next up is discussing voting methods for electing the convention voting process committee. Yes, really.

  42. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman @Thomas L. Knapp: I should note that last sentence on outstanding balance was mine not Chuck’s. I’ve clarified that above.

  43. paulie Post author

    In other news these 3 levels deep votes on voting methods make me glad I am not on LNC this term. I would be so lost and eyes glazing over right now. It would have been worse had it been after lunch.

  44. Chuck Moulton

    The meeting came to order. Chair Sarwark made a few jokes about daylight savings time, suggesting the platform committee look into opposing it.

    Data use for affiliates was postponed until Ken Moellman is in the room.

    Lark asks if the LNC wants to issue any statements on our overbearing long form census. Redpath says he was interviewed for The Daily Show on this topic by Samantha Bee in a group of 4. They tried to make him look crazy, but he quickly realized what was going on and tried to say as little as possible. Sarwark points out that the people at the Census Bureau may be really sincere about wanting to keep data private and not used for evil, but it was used to round up people for Japanese concentration camps and could be used in the future because the Census Bureau can’t prevent other agencies from misusing that data later (in much the same way ATF can’t prevent later gun confiscation).

    Harlos is discussing records acquisitions from the Badnarik campaign, Clark campaign, and MacBride campaign, including t-shirts that can be mounted and displayed at LPHQ. If any states have interns or volunteers who don’t have enough to do, Harlos has plenty of historical archiving work to go around and doesn’t mind managing interns. A lot of the tedious beginning part (first pass through archive materials, setting up databases and wikis, etc.) of the historical preservation project is over and we’re into the fun, exciting part.

    The LNC is now talking about the John Hospers project (a book being written?) and figuring out who should be the point of contact. Lark suggests someone who knew Hospers, such as David Bergland. Harlos says they want someone who can also talk about the current state of the LP (Hospers’ legacy), and therefore thinks the chair would be a more appropriate point of contact.

    Preston Smith is now giving a report on the Blockchain Committee. The committee wants to increase the visibility of the bitcoin donation option on the website. Stephen Nakhalia purchased his lifetime membership with bitcoin and may write an LP News article about it and make a video holding up his membership card for Jess Mears. Harlos suggests adding blockchain committee information to LPedia.

    Mattson moves to select the Convention Voting Process committee and the Membership Support committee by approval voting with a majority requirement for election. Redpath asks if STV can be used with fractions, then withdraws that idea in favor of an amendment removing the majority requirement for election, saying that we should use election procedures which can be used by the public to elect our candidates. Mattson asks the chair if it is in order to elect candidates without a majority. I was out of the room a few minutes. I believe while I was gone the chair ruled Redpath’s amendment in order, Mattson appealed from the ruling of the chair, and the the ruling of the chair was sustained. Redpath’s amendment passed, so the committees will be selected by approval voting with only a plurality required to elect (instead of majority). (There were a few parliamentary maneuvers I missed there while conferencing on another matter, but this is basically what happened.) The LNC recessed for 20 minutes to vote by ballot on these committees and check out of the hotel. I gave a brief pitch for Dan Karlan for the Convention Voting Process committee once the LNC was in recess.

  45. Chuck Moulton

    At the suggestion of Ken Moellman in consultation with interim executive director Lauren Daugherty and counsel Oliver Hall, Harlos moves that the data use for affiliates portion of the policy manual be amended in many ways — primarily requiring that state affiliate volunteers using the data sign NDAs and use encryption when sending the data dump files around. Chuck Moulton suggested a 3 changes, 2 of which Ken Moellman agreed with. Mattson had a number of concerns, which she also emailed to the business list. Mattson moved that the language about providing 1 month notice to affiliates before changing the order of data elements be retained (also one of Moulton’s concerns). The LNC proposed a series of amendments regarding another one of Mattson’s concerns (referring to LPHQ rather than the ED), which passed in reworded form. Mattson then proposed extending prohibitions on data sharing from just candidates for public office not yet officially nominated to also candidates for internal LP office. Harlos then proposed Moulton’s second amendment to add back the explicit formats promised (csv and excel), which passed without objection. Finally, Harlos moved Moulton’s third amendment to remove language making sending data in the first 5 days of the month a goal rather than a requirement. Moellman opposed Moulton’s suggestion because he wants the rules to follow what actually happens rather than be ignored. The amendment removing the goal language passed by a show of hands. Moellman read the full proposal (as amended) to the LNC prior to the vote. Van Hon was concerned that this should be written by the newly constituted IT Committee rather than by Moellman alone. She was not recognized to make a refer to committee motion because voting had already begun. The policy manual amendment passed by a roll call vote.

  46. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman Voted 13-0 to set our final meeting of the year (the budget meeting) for November 16-17, 2019. Now considering possible locations.

    Paulie: Harlos proposing new hotel in Aurora (Denver area), CO

  47. Chuck Moulton

    They are now proposing locations and dates for the fall LNC meeting — a budget meeting. Steven Nakhalia proposed a warm climate like Florida. Robert Kraus gave a rousing speech in favor of Ft. Lauderdale. Redpath suggests a November meeting in the fall, 1 meeting not 2 after the July meeting, and points out that Thanksgiving is late this year. Redpath moves that the meeting be the weekend of November 16-17, which passed by a show of hands. Harlos suggested the Gaylord hotel in Aurora, CO, which is a possible future national convention site. Chair Sarwark suggests listing a lot of possible locations, then deciding by a ballot vote. John Phillips suggests Alexandria, VA to save money (consistent with the budgeting discussion this past December). Steven Nekhalia proposes Ft. Lauderdale, FL. Jeff Hewitt proposes Riverside County, CA, where we have a elected Libertarian supervisor. Lark moved that there be an email ballot with the options already put forward, which passed by a show of hands. Kraus will have proposals with approximate costs in 3 weeks.

  48. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman Location for the November meeting will be resolved by email ballot. Suggestions that staff will explore:
    Aurora, CO
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Riverside, CA
    Alexandria, VA

  49. paulie Post author

    @JBH fb

    Scott Lieberman I don’t think there has been an LNC Meeting in California in about a zillion years.

    Ontario, CA is only 5 miles from Riverside. If you expand your search from Riverside to include Ontario, you can probably find a lot of hotels in Ontario that have free airport shuttles. Ontario Airport has a halfway decent selection of non-stop flights:

  50. Carol Moore/

    Does Riverside have as many rich contributors as Orange county? Which best for big fundraiser??

  51. paulie Post author via

    10:29 AM (11 minutes ago)

    to Libertarian, Alicia
    BetteRose Ryan previously visited the Gaylord in Aurora as a potential
    convention venue. My notes from her discussion with the COC were that the
    hotel wanted to put our meals in a space which would have pillars in it,
    which is not desirable. Otherwise, we’d have to give up some of the space
    in the main hall to use for meal space, and she thought we would need all
    the space in the main hall for our general session. We eliminated it from
    consideration at the time after her site visit.


  52. Carol Moore/

    Well, dang. A GAY LORD would be a great place to have a convention. Like Garlic to the Christian Fundamentalist statists sniffing around the party. ha ha ha

  53. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman We’ve adopted a non-disclosure agreement template for our CRM database with state affiliates.

  54. paulie Post author

    RE proposed CO location via

    11:15 AM (0 minutes ago)

    to Caryn, Libertarian
    It is my understanding that there have been additions and significant
    changes. I am planning on visiting it perhaps within the upcoming week.
    Do you happen [to have] any notes on who BetteRose spoke to?

  55. George Phillies

    ” Mattson then proposed extending prohibitions on data sharing from just candidates for public office not yet officially nominated to also candidates for internal LP office. ”

    So, in the period before the primary, the candidates cannot get data. Our primaries are in September. If we are not a major party. candiddates get on the ballot via signatures; the state association can help them but usually has not wasted its time ‘nominating’ candidates.

  56. Carol Moore/

    Just put the LNC members behind all the pillars and there will be no problem.

  57. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman
    Just now

    Membership Support Committee selected:

    Paul Bilyeu (15)
    Jeff Lyons (15)
    Alex Merced (15)
    Valerie Sarwark (15)
    Steve Dasbach (13)
    Jennifer Moore (11)
    Omar Recuero (9)
    Jennifer Flower (6)
    Kevin Moore (5)

  58. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman
    3 mins

    Convention Voting Process Committee selected:
    Joe Bishop-Henchman (16)
    Bill Redpath (14)
    Susan Hogarth (14)
    Dan Fishman (13)
    Paul Bilyeu (12)
    Pat Dixon (11)
    Dan Karlan (11)
    Jeff Lyons (11)

    Both Richard Fast and David Valente tied at 7, which was broken by a coin toss, electing Fast.

  59. Chuck Moulton

    It is now time for region reports.

    Richard Longstreth (region 1) reports that his alternate Craig Bowden has resigned. A new regional alternate will be selected by the state chairs on March 15. Lark and Van Horn asked when the Wyoming state LP convention would be held.

    Stephen Nekhalia (region 2) reports fundraising is good in FL and there is a ballot access improvement bill in GA.

    Elizabeth Van Horn (region 3) reports that Kentucky and Ohio had state conventions, with their officers playing musical chairs (same people, different positions).

    Joe Bishop Henchman asked Van Horn to draw 2 names from a hat to raffle off two decks of liberty playing cards. Winners were Steven Nekhalia and Tim Hagan.

    Jeff Hewitt (region 4) said California is looking to run some active city council campaigns.

    Dr. Lark (region 5) filed his report in advance and asked if there were any questions. Susan Hogarth (NC chair) reported there are 2 special elections for U.S. Congress coming up.

    John Phillips (region 6) is concerned about a ballot access bill in Iowa which would make things much worse, and encouraged about a ballot access bill in Illinois which would make things much better.

    Whitney Bilyeu (region 7) said some things I couldn’t hear.

    Justin O’Donnell (region 8) highlighted the state house special election in RI. The LP candidate Billy Hunt lost with 30%, finishing 2nd in a 4 way race, beating the incumbent.

    Next the LNC is hearing from its attorney Oliver Hall. Hall will be arguing the AZ ballot access case in front of the 9th circuit this coming week. He is also handing an appeal in Illinois from an independent candidate for a 5% requirement. The district court wrote a very good opinion for the independent candidate, the state appealed, the 7th circuit stayed the decision and remanded, and it was assigned to a new district judge who wrote a very bad opinion for the independent candidate. This is what is being appealed. Hall pointed out a bad 7th circuit decision saying the Illinois requirement isn’t burdensome because 3 candidates got on the ballot in spite of the requirement, but those 3 candidates all got on in years immediately following redistricting when the requirements didn’t apply (much lower signature requirements needed); therefore, the 7th circuit based its bad decision on a factual inaccuracy. Sarwark asked Hall if he thought the Arkansas LP should collect 10,000 signatures at the same time they file a lawsuit against the new 27,000 signature requirement. Hall says yes because succeeding in collecting 10,000 signatures but failing to collect 27,000 signatures provides a good factual basis for the lawsuit. Mattson asked Hall if he reviewed non-disclosure agreement (NDA) language for state CRM database access, which he had. Mattson then moved that this NDA be adopted by the LNC, which passed by a roll call vote. Hall wants to challenge ballot access laws in their totality on equal protection and first amendment grounds because the R’s and D’s get automatic ballot access and taxpayer funded primaries while the LP needs to deal with archaic signature gathering at ever increasing numbers.

    I ducked out of the room to talk to Oliver Hall for a minute and missed the results of the Convention Voting Process committee and the Membership Support committee. I’m sure some others have recorded those, or we can check the minutes. I will note that they was a coin flip to settle a tie for the Convention Voting Process committee.

    Now we are into other announcements / public comments.

    Andy Jacobs pointed out that in around 2006 the Arkansas signature requirements were raised from 10,000 signatures to 27,000 signatures. The Green Party filed a lawsuit against the new requirement, collected 10,000 signatures, and won its lawsuit. So we’ve been through this exact same thing before.

    Harlos pitched the historical archive extra t-shirts again.

    Bishop-Henchman recognized his husband in the gallery as the most popular Libertarian in DC by vote total (more votes than Trump got).

    At this point the LNC entered executive session to discuss staffing matters. The gallery left the room for executive session, which ends my live blogging for today. Thanks to everyone else who live blogged, including Paulie (IPR) and Joe Bishop-Henchman (Facebook).

  60. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman We have risen from executive session, and then adjourned with no further actions.

  61. paulie Post author

    Alex Merced – Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee
    1 hr ·

    Summary of the LNC Meeting this weekend

    – The LNC Executive Director Search should end in the next couple of weeks

    – Policy Manual changes fixing grammar and clarity issues

    – Membership Support and Convention Voting Committees finally populated

    – Libertarians encouraged to discuss the 2020 census and the expansion over the years of what the census asks for as a privacy and civil liberties issue as government data but one agency have been used by other agencies in the past to round people up into internment camps.

    – The fight for ballot access is being fought in the courtroom in many states, arguments are hopeful for some wins.

    – The 2020 Convention will be using a mobile app to distribute Convention information, the app was tested successfully at the meeting.

    – Discussion of LP Store Merchandise

  62. paulie Post author

    Joe Bishop-Henchman
    54 mins

    Another good LNC meeting.
    – Preserved the balanced budget, requiring offsets for new spending ideas
    – Talked about a new proactive ballot access litigation strategy
    – Brainstormed about using the 2020 U.S. Census as a marketing hook
    – Got a preview of new, engaging, and profitable swag for the LP Store
    – Appointed a committee to recommend changes for internal elections (including me on it!)
    – Got a good presentation from the convention app vendor
    – Adopted data sharing rules with affiliates and a default non-disclosure agreement
    – Clarified procedure for when an alternate can vote on an email ballot
    – Received the news that the $100,000 in bills we inherited from 2017 will be fully paid off this coming week
    – Excellent update on Arkansas’s huge progress so far fundraising for a multi-prong ballot access strategy, making us much more comfortable putting LNC money into it
    – Well-attended evening fundraising event in Old Town Alexandria.

    In the hallways, there were very promising discussions about fundraising, ballot access, candidates, and impact. There were a couple of 9-8 votes but most were lopsided or even unanimous. Now is the time to get our house in order for 2020, and I’m pleased to say your staff and representatives are working hard on that.

  63. Seebeck go here structure of academic essay writing business case study get link purchase compare and contrast essay commander pilule viagra contoh thesis statement donde puedo comprar pastillas viagra viagra temperature storage thesis binding ann arbor cialis special offers name one of the writers of the federalist papers city college mfa creative writing how to send email from iphone 8 plus potassium bitartrate synthesis go here viagra best results viagra buy pakistan follow url follow buying viagra online from canada go essay help chat purchase viagra online no prescription cheap viagra in australia cheap viagra index watch Joe Bishop-Henchman Location for the November meeting will be resolved by email ballot. Suggestions that staff will explore:
    Aurora, CO
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Riverside, CA
    Alexandria, VA

    Riverside: Mission Inn. Ontario is an idea (recalling my proposal for the 2012 National Convention for the Ontario Convention Center with its 50+ restaurants and 13 hotels nearby, but was completely ignored by the LNC in favor of the completely retarded location in Vegas). If they do that, airport and Amtrak access is important, and Ontario Airport is good access, and it is possible to get from LAX to Ontario by rail and avoid the @#$%^ing freeways.

    Aurora, CO: lots of options both in Aurora and near DIA. With the light rail now in operation in Aurora and even to downtown, that is also a viable option.

    Don’t know about Alexandria or Ft. Lauderdale.

  64. Seebeck

    @JBH fb

    Scott Lieberman I don’t think there has been an LNC Meeting in California in about a zillion years.

    10 years, to be exact. How quickly the barfly forgets the Dec 2008 LNC Meeting in San Diego with the saga of the Starr Chamber vs. The Keaton, the birth of the Libertarian Transparency Caucus, and the firs livestream of an LNC meeting by yours truly.

    Of maybe he doesn’t want to remember that traumatic time in his life…

  65. Seebeck

    Well, dang. A GAY LORD would be a great place to have a convention. Like Garlic to the Christian Fundamentalist statists sniffing around the party. ha ha ha

    Clueless as usual.

    The Gaylord family is a set of Oklahoma billionaires who also have long ties to Colorado (patriarch Edward K is a Colorado College alumni) , including Western Pacific Airlines in Colorado Springs and The National Western Stock Show Complex in Denver. They also have a long history in Tennessee, are very much not homosexual and definitely Christian. They are to the University of Oklahoma what T. Boone Pickens is to Oklahoma State in terms of benefactors.

    It helps to know the names and players.

    As for the Gaylord property in Aurora, run by Marriott (UGH!), see and…4.0..2.284.2740.2j12j4……0….1..gws-wiz…….0i71j0i67j0i10._W7j3re5g8A

  66. paulie Post author

    The Aurora proposal is tied to a specific hotel, the Gaylord. CAH suggested it because she wants to look into that particular hotel as a possible 2022 convention venue. Ft Lauterdale was suggested by Nekhalia and also plugged by Kraus for weather related reasons, which could also be a reason to consider Riverside, as aforementioned it’s been over a decade since a meeting in CA (if that is correct) and Hewitt’s win for Board of Supervisors in Riverside County make it a location that is being considered. Alexandria is being considered because of proximity to national office and cost savings on staff travel; there have been lots of meetings there including this one so they know all about the hotels. Robert Kraus is good in finding and vetting the hotels for any city.

  67. Seebeck

    – The 2020 Convention will be using a mobile app to distribute Convention information, the app was tested successfully at the meeting.

    More details on this app, its capabilities, and most importantly, will the National Convention finally work on improving its convention floor power infrastructure for the ability to plug in laptops, tablets, and smartphones to charge up during the business sessions instead of relying on very limited perimeter wall jacks? In this day and age there is absolutely zero reason for the LNC to do a one-off buy of power strips to supply that power to the classroom tables on the floor, and there is absolutely zero reason for the LNC to provide its own WiFi hotspot to allow wireless comms for the delegates (AND this APP!) on the floor.

    Time for the National Convention to move into the 21st century.

  68. paulie Post author

    More details on this app, its capabilities, and most importantly, will the National Convention finally work on improving its convention floor power infrastructure for the ability to plug in laptops, tablets, and smartphones to charge up during the business sessions instead of relying on very limited perimeter wall jacks? In this day and age there is absolutely zero reason for the LNC to do a one-off buy of power strips to supply that power to the classroom tables on the floor, and there is absolutely zero reason for the LNC to provide its own WiFi hotspot to allow wireless comms for the delegates (AND this APP!) on the floor.

    Time for the National Convention to move into the 21st century.

    Agreed! For more detail you may want to go back to the livestream which is available as a recording after the fact and watch the presentation yourself. CAH has been indexing these but I would be pleasantly surprised if she has already done that for this just concluded meeting. Obviously there were a lot of details discussed in the presentation and Q and A which we did not capture here in the liveblog notes and which will probably go beyond the scope of the official meeting minutes when those become available.

    You could also write/call/message Ken Moellman, Daniel Hayes and the convention committee as they have been working with the app and the convention wifi.

  69. Seebeck

    It’s been suggested before. No idea if they’ll finally do it.

    It’s why I try to pack electrical stuff to at least state conventions.

  70. Carol Moore/

    Seebeck: Can’t a girl have ANY fun mocking fundie patriarchs?

    But thanks for this info: How quickly the barfly forgets the Dec 2008 LNC Meeting in San Diego with the saga of the Starr Chamber vs. The Keaton, the birth of the Libertarian Transparency Caucus, and the firs livestream of an LNC meeting by yours truly.

  71. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Paulie I will be indexing that shortly. As usual I came back with an unpleasant bug from the flying tubes in the sky. And threw my back out horrendously – I am always trying to just stay ahead of pain management with the state’s war on pain patients.

    I am really much more comfortable with the following the RONR process of roll call by surname rather than order around the table.

  72. Seebeck

    No, Carol, you pathetic b*tch, you’re nothing more than a useless bully. You didn’t even have the guts to talk to CAH in person at the LNC meeting, hiding behind your keyboard and in general being a coward and an overall toxic waste pile on the Party.

    See, it goes like this: had you any class or sense, you would have sought out CAH and settled your differences in person while you could. But you didn’t do that, and never even tried. Instead you simply continued your harassment for no reason. At the end of it all, she’ll still be here, busting her butt for what she believes in, and you’ll be dead, eaten up from the inside out by your own mental toxicity feeding your physical decay, accomplishing nothing and leaving behind only a legacy of a lot of heads shaking in disappointment at your attitude.

    CAH and I had a major disagreement over the CO platform three years ago. We talked it out, in person, and we’ve been fine with each other ever since, working well together in respect and friendship. That’s how real people work things. Hell, I don’t like Starr, but I do respect him and can work with him when needed. I even agree with him sometimes.

    What you consider to be fun is bullying and hurtful to others. Well, maybe you ought to consider your actions from the other direction. Sure, nobody’s perfect, but maybe you ought to put some sense into your years and act like a dignified lady instead of a bitter old dying crone.

    You need serious mental health help for your issues to make peace with yourself before you die. I hope you get it, for the sake of your own soul.

  73. paulie Post author

    Harlos to LNC list:

    Hello all, each meeting I try to improve my services to you so I solicit
    feedback on the following (or anything else you may wish):

    Usefulness and completeness of the Onenote notebook
    The pre-printed ballots
    My responsiveness to requests

    It is my joy to serve as Secretary and seek to improve each time.

    Some thoughts I have is perhaps rather than having the Onenote broken down
    into larger section so that you have to click through to find individual
    motions to have the motions instead as main items with any support as
    sub-folders, thoughts?

    I also think I should have the UStream (or whatever other feed we may use
    up on my screen so we don’t have to rely on members or very busy staff to
    alert us when the feed is down). Also, and I know reaction to this might
    be mixed, but there is live comments with members on the Ustream, and I
    think having those on projection screen might be helpful or to have some
    kind of mass texting set up so that members can send comments to the LNC.

    Please let me know.

  74. paulie Post author

    Andy Craig @ JBH FB: There should be a Convention Voting Process Committee Voting Process Committee to determine a better voting process to elect committees about voting processes.

  75. paulie Post author

    Scott Lieberman @ JBH FB: “Talked about a new proactive ballot access litigation strategy”

    Getting state legislatures to decrease the vote percentage needed to retain ballot access, and allowing political parties 4 years of ballot access for passing the vote test, instead of 2 years, would be infinitely more helpful than just getting Legislatures to lower the signature requirements.

  76. paulie Post author

    @JBH FB

    Paulie Cannoli If we are relying on many/most delegates to be able to access an app all/most/much of the time they are there, in addition to better and more reliable wifi than we have had at recent conventions we also need better and more universal access to outlets. Yes, I know you have recommended people buy extra batteries or external chargers or whatever but not everyone can do that or will think to do it. Ken Moellman Daniel Hayes

    Ken Moellman We definitely need quickcharging stations and reliable WiFi. I’m working on the latter now.

    Paulie Cannoli Relevant comment from Seebeck at IPR: “More details on this app, its capabilities, and most importantly, will the National Convention finally work on improving its convention floor power infrastructure for the ability to plug in laptops, tablets, and smartphones to charge up during the business sessions instead of relying on very limited perimeter wall jacks? In this day and age there is absolutely zero reason for the LNC to do a one-off buy of power strips to supply that power to the classroom tables on the floor, and there is absolutely zero reason for the LNC to provide its own WiFi hotspot to allow wireless comms for the delegates (AND this APP!) on the floor.

    Time for the National Convention to move into the 21st century.” I can’t tag him as he blocked me on FB years ago but think someone maybe should 🙂

  77. paulie Post author

    @JBH fb Daniel Hayes Here’s another option. On the COC I have been the biggest hold out on keeping the book despite having been pushing for an app for 3 conventions. I felt like we needed a transition. The thing is the layout costs are prohibitive for the book. This remains constant if we print 1 book or 5000. Print layout(Not to be confused with graphic design) to my understanding tends to be a little more complicated and time intensive and requires a little different skillset. Monkeys like Ken and I are capable of adding content to the App but we can’t do it for a book..

    I’m now at the point of adamantly pushing to ditch the book.

    That said, if we did that, I think the COC(trying not to speak definitively for my committee at this point) would be open to covering the cost on something up to 1200 no frills(black and white) copies of the Bylaws, Platform, and Audit Committee Report printed and distributed by the Credentials Committee to delegates and alternates.

    Why the Audit Committee report? It’s bylaws mandated. Personally I think it’s silly to include.

    When we release this year’s tickets/packages we are probably going to allow for a lot of “add-ons” One of which would be something like “Click to Add $10 to offset printing costs.”

    “Click to add $20 to cover bylaws allowed electronic balloting solutions”.

    I am thinking we’d have the suggested donation and an other box. If someone wants to give a buck or $10,000 to the cause I won’t get in the way of someone giving the Party any “extra” money voluntarily.

  78. Carol Moore/

    Sees-nothing wrote all sorts of stupid nasty stuff re: my attendance at the LNC meeting because he’s so filled up with communicable viruses. (joke)

    Anyway I could only stay three hours and Ms. Harlos was way in a corner working whole time. Otherwise I was quite willing to start a conversation with the phrase “Liar. Liar! Pants on fire!” (Merely a colloquialism.)

    I seeHarlos DID apologize to Ms. Mattson and Ms. Van Horne for being snarky, as reported above. I haven’t been snarky. I’ve mocked her obnoxious powermongering tactics as she seeks to enable those who want to outlaw abortion, something she admitted on video she “sympathizes” with.

    If she wants to apologize to me for fabricating the FALSE LYING allegations I repeatedly sexually propositioned her online and was a spurned suitor, we’ll have something to talk about.

    In the meantime, it’s important to warn anyone who argues with her NOT to be in a closed room with her without witnesses in case she falsely claims they actually assault her. I’ve already warned a couple of high profile people she argues with about that remote but not impossible scenario.

    That could include Mr. GermsBeck (joke) should he turn his nasty temper on her!!

  79. Carol Moore/

    FYI. Here’s what I want Ms. Harlos to apologize for PUBLICLY. She can do it here only if she wants. And just for the LIES I emphasize in CAPS. She doesn’t have to apologize for her opinions. I certainly don’t.

    However, we DO disagree on free speech, since she thinks repeated criticism in various public forums is harassment and I disagree. My making seven odd snotty comments over three years on a few of Harlos’ many public forums – with no private messages at all – is hardly harassment.
    Caryn Ann Harlos
    April 30, 2018 at 21:38

    I SAID NO TO YOUR SEVERAL PROPOSITIONS WITH LEWD COMMENTS ABOUT MY BREASTS AND YOU’VE HARASSED ME EVERY SINCE. No man would get away with that but you’re using your female privilege as a shield.

    Nope. YOU ARE A SPURNED SUITOR WHO HAS HARASSED ME EVERY SINCE and you picked the wrong chick to bully.
    …End quote…

    The question is, who will Ms. Harlos try to bully next with her FABRICATED LIES???

    I certainly hope she doesn’t run for the LNC again. Run for state chair. If you think you can get the votes to win…

  80. Seebeck

    Given that I have seen YOUR actions over the past three years, Moore, the liar is batshit, always-been-crazy, jealous YOU, and you are the one that owes Ms. Harlos an apology, not the other way around.

    And I suggest that you learn what harassment is, because you’re a poster girl for it in your fetus-killing fanaticism.

    Ms. Harlos is a happily-married woman and doesn’t swing your way anyway.

    And yes, I have been alone in a closed room with her, and absolutely nothing happened except working Platform Committee work while waiting to go to the airport for a rescheduled flight home. In fact, all of my interactions with her over the past two years have been perfectly normal, professional, respectable, and friendly.

    And before you question my own credibility around women, ask my wife of 21 years, or The Keaton, Shinghal, Hawkridge, or other women within the LP that I have worked with.

    That’s what happens when you respect women, and even before that, you respect yourself.

    You might want to try that sometime, Moore.

    Now go away. You’re nuts.

  81. Carol Moore/

    Mr. Seebeck outs himself writing about me the rediculous accusation: “your fetus-killing fanaticism.” (Since obviously there is no rational reason to abort fetuses?)

    Even Ms. Harlos coyly “symapthizes” with women aborting fetuses with horrible looking Harlequin -type ichthyosis – supposedly cause they are in so much pain. Though this article at least doesn’t mention that issue: But she’s against aborting not so ugly Downs fetuses.

    She also coyly “sympathizes” with abortion for rape. I forget what other exceptions she has. So I guess she must be one of Mr. Seebeck’s fetus killers?

    Yes, it all comes clear. Seebeck doesn’t want women to take measles vaccines, but he wants the state to force women to carry the deformed fetuses they are carrying while they have measles.

    Does Seebeck openly call for outlawing abortion. Or like Ms. Harlos coyly claims he “sympathizes” with those who do. So he can play both sides of the issue in his quest for power over women’s lives.

    Just another jack booted prohibitionist at heart??

  82. NewFederalist

    This dirty laundry airing is really kind of… well… uncomfortable to view in a public forum. Isn’t there some place on the dark web for this sort of thing?

  83. Jared

    Seebeck: “fetus-killing fanaticism”

    You know, if you bring up the a-word, Carol is not going hear any other word you say….

    dL: “Wrong party, pal.”

    I do hope the party as a whole does not share her giddy enthusiasm for abortion on-demand.

  84. Carol Moore/

    Jared wrote: “I do hope the party as a whole does not share her giddy enthusiasm for abortion on-demand.”

    Most of party wants to keep the govt out of the abortion issue and find private, non-coercive solutions for women who don’t want abortions but are forced by circumstances.

    As for the women who want them, make sure they are easy and affordable to get in first 6-10 weeks. Right now the laws and regulations put in place by alleged “right to lifers” make abortions more difficult and expensive to get and force women to have them in 11-16 plus week period.

    People brainwashed by republicans who adopted abortion as a wedge issue to keep people emotionally subject to the GOP should not bring their statist emotional baggage into the LP. The Constitution Party is the place for you.

  85. Carol Moore/

    NewFederalist March 15, 2019 at 14:36 wrote: “This dirty laundry airing is really kind of… well… uncomfortable to view in a public forum. Isn’t there some place on the dark web for this sort of thing?”

    All statist oppression, in political organizations, the media or the government must be opposed in public. Ms. Harlos at least speaks a good line on transparency, even if she has a fit when people practice it and has them banned from LP forums….

  86. dL

    I do hope the party as a whole does not share her giddy enthusiasm for abortion on-demand.

    Unapologetic !=giddiness.

  87. dL

    Isn’t there some place on the dark web for this sort of thing?

    lol, no. The Dark web is the onion routed anonymity network where people generally go to great lengths to obfuscate their actual identities.

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