April 2020 Open Thread

Please leave any tips, announcements, or others things below.

Here’s some relevant music videos to occupy your mind. Please add more in the comments.

66 thoughts on “April 2020 Open Thread

  1. Jake Leonard

    The Libertarian and Green parties of Illinois filed suit Thursday in Springfield to contest the current ballot access thresholds, which are still being enforced. With petitioning hallted for both parties, the General Assembly indefinitely out of session and Gov. JB Pritzker taking no action, the lawsuit against Pritzker and the Illinois State Board of Elections was the only option.

    Thanks to Richard Winger at Ballot Access News for the PDF of the complaint (linked below):
    https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ilnd.375021/gov.uscourts.ilnd.375021.1.0.pdf

    (Disclaimer: I am listed as a witness/co-plaintiff in the suit, as I was preparing to petition for a county board race in Montgomery County, Illinois in County Board District 2.)

  2. William Saturn Post author

    The second video on the Open Thread is Bob Dylan’s first single of new material since 2012, “Murder Most Foul,” which deals with the JFK assassination. The near 17 minute long track released March 27 went number one today on the Billboard Rock Digital Song Sales Chart.  This is Dylan’s first number one single on any Billboard chart for his entire career and it comes just a month shy of his 79th birthday.

  3. dL

    This is Dylan’s first number one single on any Billboard chart for his entire career and it comes just a month shy of his 79th birthday.

    Rock n roll has become old people’s music

  4. William Saturn Post author

    With “Senator McCain” and “John McCain” trending on Twitter due to President Trump’s tweet about POWs, let’s looks at what POW/MIA activist Ross Perot had to say about McCain:

    “[McCain] is the classic opportunist–he’s always reaching for attention and glory. Other POWs won’t even sit at the same table with him.

    “After he came home, he walked with a limp, she [Carol McCain] walked with a limp [due to a car wreck]. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona [Cindy McCain, his last wife] and the rest is history.

    “McCain was adamant about shutting down anything to do with recovering POWs.”

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/ross-perot-slams-mccain-86763%3famp=1

  5. dL

    Talkin’ about their degeneration….

    Well, that’s the problem…those motherfuckers are still touring

  6. paulie

    Is that actually a problem? I mean, what’s wrong with seniors being active in their golden years? If that’s what a lot of people want to pay to see – mazel tov.

  7. paulie

    I haven’t watched or listened to the new Dylan hit yet, actually. Sound has not worked on my laptop for several months now and while I can now watch youtube videos on my phone I had my power knocked out by the garbage truck last Saturday the day after moving back up to the river house from a weekly motel, and just yesterday got wifi again. In the meantime I could not do much except text and make the occassional voice call on my cell. I will try to remember to watch it.

  8. dL

    Is that actually a problem? I mean, what’s wrong with seniors being active in their golden years?

    Name association with a retirement community is a marketing problem for a popular music genre. It is strange(for me) that rock n roll has become your parents or grand parents music. Then again, I suppose it is inevitable that popular music genres do not last.

  9. Robert Hansen

    “let’s looks at what POW/MIA activist Ross Perot had to say about McCain:
    “[McCain] is the classic opportunist–he’s always reaching for attention and glory. ”

    Can’t think of an instance where the phrase “Pot, meet Kettle” was more applicable.

  10. paulie

    Name association with a retirement community is a marketing problem for a popular music genre.

    Seniors have time on their hands and disposable income, and the music of their time has many younger fans as well. If it was a marketing problem how did it get to #1 on the billboard chart?

    It’s not just music. Trump is the oldest first term president ever. Biden, if elected, will be by far the oldest first term president ever. His closest competitor for the nomination – with lots of young fans – was another guy in his late 70s. More and more people that age are still working and at the top of their professions or fields. Hell, my dad is in better health than I am and will probably live longer than me the way things are going.

  11. paulie

    Can’t think of an instance where the phrase “Pot, meet Kettle” was more applicable.

    McCain spent years as a POW, was tortured and had lingering health problems from that for the rest of his life. Perot washed out as a Navy (iirc) officer because sailors cussed and he couldn’t stand to be around that, and was later a POW-MIA activist/donor. Trump is a guy who avoided service with a bullshit excuse about bone spurs, said later said that avoiding venereal diseases was “his equivalent of Vietnam” (paraphrase) and now thinks he is smarter than all the generals. We shall see. he sure crows a lot about shoveling more money to defense contractors than even they have thought to ask for. Despite an undeserved reputation as a peace president, he has only moved troops around, not brought them home. Drone bombings and overall US troop levels in and around hotspots have only grown. He has exacerbated tensions with many countries which could lead to war. And he’s said he wouldn’t rule out a nuclear first strike, repeatedly, as well as defending and encouraging war crimes. Hopefully he won’t start any big wars, but I’m not optimistic. He sure loves military parades and the image of himself as a wartime president, and his dictatorial instincts line up nicely with war powers.

    Had Perot been elected I think he would have been much the same. He had a dictatorial monomaniac side a lot of people don’t know much about. He did successfully avoid being elected with the whole drop out and back in crap, so there’s that. Trump not so much.

  12. paulie

    That’s not to lionize McCain. There are many dark sides to his history. He was a lot of bad things. But Perot and even more so Trump hardly have a leg to stand on when it comes to criticizing his military service in particular. Trump doesn’t like warriors who got captured. Neither did Stalin; he had them massacred after WWII. Trump, of course, prefers war criminals like the guy whose SEAL command and rank he restored. He’s speaking from his vast experience in military school.

  13. dL

    If it was a marketing problem how did it get to #1 on the billboard chart?

    That song is nowhere near the billboard hot 100.
    https://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100

    Dylan’s song made #1 download for an old people’s niche music category, i.e., rock music. Rock n roll is no longer a popular music genre.

    It’s not just music.

    One look at the billboard 100 should dispel any notion that senior citizens are invading popular music. And you need to come up with a better example than Joe Biden to give anecdotal weight to the contention that “More and more people that age are still working and at the top of their professions or fields.”

  14. paulie

    Dylan’s song made #1 download for an old people’s niche music category, i.e., rock music. Rock n roll is no longer a popular music genre.

    It still dominates a good chunk of radio in most markets. Packs many stadia all over the country and the world last I saw. Rakes in tons of money. Millions and millions of views for many rock songs on utube or wherever else. Anecdotally, I have found lots of younger people like it too. Certainly more than I saw be fans of music from that much earlier say 30 years ago. Certainly not everyone. But there are still tons of younger rock bands touring, putting out music, etc etc.

    Also, a lot of country music now, which is also huge right now in many places, sounds more like rock than traditional country. A good chunk of hip hop uses a lot of rock samples. Christian rock is another niche genre that’s bigger than you may realize if you stay away from it. A lot of types of music have been influenced by rock, even some classical.

    “More and more people that age are still working and at the top of their professions or fields.”

    This is a controversial statement? Look at news commenters, writers, Fauci (79), supreme court justices, corporate boards – too many examples to list and I won’t try. But even the first time I gave several examples, not one.

  15. dL

    It’s No. 8 on the Digital Song Sales Chart, which is all genres.

    I’ sure it it is. But, you know, REO Speedwagon and Joe Diffie cracked the same list this week.

  16. paulie

    I’ sure it it is. But, you know, REO Speedwagon and Joe Diffie cracked the same list this week.

    REO Speedwagon drew a massive crowd last time I saw them, which was just 2 years ago and change. So, there’s definitely an audience for it.

  17. paulie

    I was there working, and it was a free concert. But still. I also went to see Tom Petty on what turned out to be his last tour with friends in Arkansas. That one was actually a paid event, and again a packed arena.

  18. dL

    It still dominates a good chunk of radio in most markets.

    FM radio still has an audience for classic rock, stuff from 30, 40, 50 years ago. Nothing contemporary. The contemporary stuff is all hip hop. This is not even debatable. Rock n roll is not sniffing the billboard hot 100 anymore. It’s essentially going the way of jazz and Sinatra swing music.

    Packs many stadia all over the country and the world last I saw.

    No doubt. But there is an obvious expiration date on how long that is going to continue.

    This is a controversial statement? Look at news commenters, writers, Fauci (79),

    Appealing to Anthony Fauci to make the case for the popularity of rock music would be more bewildering than controversial. And the number of old farts in government power nonetheless bely the statistical trend of decreasing average retirement age. 67 back in 1900. 62 today.

  19. dL

    REO Speedwagon drew a massive crowd last time I saw them, which was just 2 years ago and change. So, there’s definitely an audience for it.

    Of course there is still an audience for rock music. Sinatra could pack a crowd, and Lawrence Welk produced a 30 year weekly TV show long after the popularity of big band swing music faded. It will be a similar slow fade for rock music. And it won’t die out completely a la Rush’s 2112.

  20. paulie

    There you go again. I gave a whole bunch of examples not one. My point is that a lot of people are still working, or otherwise staying healthy and active, longer than they used to. Yes, the average retirement age has dropped, but that’s because more people in humdrum average jobs where they can’t wait to retire can afford to retire younger. For people who get to the top of many fields, of a wide variety, it’s more common to have the people at the top be older than they used to be. Trump was older when he was elected than Reagan was at his first presidential election. There were a lot of people asking whether Reagan was too old then, but I don’t remember many such questions about Trump. Clinton was almost as old. Biden and Sanders are in their late 70s, almost a decade older than Reagan was when first elected and they ended up being the last two standing to challenge Trump. I would guess in say 1984 it would have been very unlikely to have seen the two Democrats left at the end vying to run against Reagan would have been even older than he was. Meanwhile Pelosi is I think about 80. There are many other examples, and far from only in politics.

    Sanders, like Ron Paul a few years ago, has a large rabid following of young people. Not something many septuagenarian politicians had decades ago.

    FM radio still has an audience for classic rock, stuff from 30, 40, 50 years ago.

    Why do you think that is? There’s a big market for it. Sure, it’s an old medium, but there is plenty of demand for it on newer media as well, and not only from old people. And it’s not just music from decades ago. Plenty of younger rock bands coming up today.

    Nothing contemporary. The contemporary stuff is all hip hop.

    Not even close. I like hip hop and have since the 80s, although I think the commercial hip hop has gone way downhill more recently. Maybe I’m just getting old. But I’ve been in a shit ton of places around all kinds of different people, many younger than me, listen to a wide variety of music, including new and old rock. Is college radio all hip hop? No. Is hip hop the only thing younger blue collar people listen to on their way to and from work, or wherever? Far from it. I really don’t know where you get this stuff from. Maybe all your friends only listen to hip hop, but come on.

  21. paulie

    . It will be a similar slow fade for rock music.

    Maybe. That remains to be seen. Even if you are correct it still has a long, long way to go on the way down. And that’s not even counting all the other kinds of music heavily influenced by it which are showing no signs of going away.

  22. paulie

    BTW, not that this matters, but is Bob Dylan rock? He used to be classified primarily as either folk music or folk rock. Of course he has changed over the years.

  23. dL

    There you go again.

    There you go, again. I have no idea what citing all the old farts in politics has to do with establishing the resiliency of rock n roll as a popular music genre. I don’t care how long Pelosi continues to yap her jowls in congress, by all pertinent billboard metrics, rock n roll ceased being a popular music genre 3 years ago. It’s been completely eclipsed by hip hop.

    This whole conversation started with Dylan. Hell, Dylan 6 years ago proclaimed rock music was dead…in AARP magazine, of all places. Dylan blamed the decline of rock music on the music industry segregating rock n roll into a white version(the British invasion) and a black version(soul music) in the early 60s. The soul version eventually morphed into hip hop and steadily managed to subsume the sanitized white version.

    Far from it. I really don’t know where you get this stuff from. Maybe all your friends only listen to hip hop, but come on.

    Actually, my musical preferences are metal, grunge, industrial and electronica. 90s gangsta rap, too. I’m a dinosaur, lol. I’m getting it from the fact that new rock music sucks. That the trends on my music service are all hip hop. Google tells me rock n roll is dead. I’ve long since retired from clubbing, but I imagine the physical scene would only confirm what the digital scene tells me.

  24. William Saturn Post author

    He’s difficult to classify. He was definitely folk in the early 60’s before he went electric. “Like a Rolling Stone” was Rock. Then after his motorcycle accident he made three or four country albums before settling with folk rock like “Blood on the Tracks” for most of the 70’s. He went gospel in the early 80’s during his born again period. Then he went full fledged Rock and joined a Rock band, the Traveling Wilburys, in the late 80’s. After two straight folk albums in the early 90’s, he seemed to mix several genres in his next five albums. In the mid 2010s he released three albums full of traditional pop standards in the style of Sinatra. Meanwhile, he’s been putting out his “bootleg” series, for which he’s won some Grammys for historical recordings. The Americana genre is basically full of artists who try to emulate Dylan. This latest song certainly sounds more like folk than anything else, but I guess Rock is just an easier classification.

  25. dL

    BTW, not that this matters, but is Bob Dylan rock? He used to be classified primarily as either folk music or folk rock. Of course he has changed over the years.

    Folk originally, then he went electric, i.e, folk rock. He was never my cup of tea. Different generation. During the pandemic, I’ve started listening to some folk rockers, CSN, Neil Young. NIN , AIC, metal ain’t doing it for me right now.

  26. paulie

    I have no idea what citing all the old farts in politics has to do with establishing the resiliency of rock n roll as a popular music genre.

    I cited other measures for that. The point you disputed, unexpectedly to me, there was that more people who would have been considered too old in the past are staying at the top of various fields and professions these days. I cited several non-political examples too.

    by all pertinent billboard metrics, rock n roll ceased being a popular music genre 3 years ago. It’s been completely eclipsed by hip hop.

    A) Sounds counterintuitive B) what’s their methodolody? Do they look at all live shows and their attendance cumulatively? Measure only paid music sales and downloads? Include free downloads on youtube, soundcloud, etc, etc? Measure what’s played on radio stations? There are so many variables these days it’s really hard to tell.

    Even if it’s true it has been eclipsed by hip hop it still has a very long way to go down and has influenced many other musical styles – including, yes, hip hop.

    The soul version eventually morphed into hip hop

    Not exactly. Hip hop historically had many different roots. If soul music morphed into anything it’s probably more the newer R & B – which BTW gets a lot of play on many hip hop stations and eclipses hip hop in many segments of the black community (not that only black folks listen to it by any means).

    What about top 40/pop? While quite a few songs incorporate some rapping, I would not really call it hip hop. Nor strictly speaking rock. Are you going to claim there are not a lot of people, young people especially, listening to that?

    Actually, my musical preferences are metal, grunge, industrial and electronica.

    I like all of those, albeit grunge less than the rest. All of them have plenty of listeners to this day, and metal and grunge are usually considered types of rock. Further disproving your contention that rock is dying or that only old people listen to it anymore.

    90s gangsta rap, too.

    Yeah, to my ear much better than mumble rap. I guess I am behind the times.

    I’m getting it from the fact that new rock music sucks.

    That’s both subjective and besides the point. Also, while there is still plenty of good hip hop being made, the commercially successful stuff is IMO awful. Obviously, a lot of people disagree, but it’s far from universal as you keep claiming and ignoring all the counter evidence for.

    That the trends on my music service are all hip hop.

    Perhaps that particular service. You are overextending that.

    Google tells me rock n roll is dead.

    What did you ask?

    I’ve long since retired from clubbing, but I imagine the physical scene would only confirm what the digital scene tells me.

    It depends on where you go clubbing. I have been around many different kinds of bar and clubs which play many different kinds of music. I saw people of all ages in many of them. I don’t go nearly as often as I did decades ago but I still get a sampling.

  27. paulie

    Google results most popular music genre 2019

    top answer: “3 Most Popular Music Genres of 2019

    Electronic music. Electronic music is the world’s third most listened to genre in the present world. …
    Rock music. Rock genre has reigned the top position for a very long time. …
    Hip-hop. For the very first time in a long time, Rock was surpassed by another genre to be the most popular music genre in recent years.”

    So yeah hip hop is more popular now but it’s a huge exaggeration to say rock is dead.

    To take another example near the top of the results https://www.statista.com/chart/15763/most-popular-music-genres-worldwide/

    ” Deserving of its name, pop music is in fact the most popular music genre in the world. According to IFPI’s latest Music Consumer Insight Report, 64 percent of the 19,000 consumers from 18 countries surveyed listen to pop music, edging out rock and dance/electronic music as the second and third most popular genres. “

  28. paulie

    The point you disputed, unexpectedly to me, there was that more people who would have been considered too old in the past are staying at the top of various fields and professions these days.

    And for people who are retired…many of them have time and disposable income, so they may actually be more relevant to music consumption than those still working full time jobs well past average retirement age. Of course, those people still working have free time and money too. And many of them can and do listen to music while working as well.

    The percentage of the population which is older and either still working or retired but relatively healthy and well off is a lot higher than in the past. And boomers are far from the only ones listening to or for that matter playing rock. Those are facts.

  29. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    What happens if LP national delegates cannot convene in Austin, due to coronavirus? How will the presidential and VP candidates be chosen?

    I read on the national LP website that one possibility is that the LNC will choose the candidates. But I can’t find that anymore on the website.

    Will the LNC choose the candidates? Or can delegates email their picks?

  30. paulie

    What happens if LP national delegates cannot convene in Austin, due to coronavirus? How will the presidential and VP candidates be chosen?

    There’s a zoom meeting on May 2 to discuss various alternative plans.

  31. Eric Sundwall

    I suggested an entire membership online, that could vote for their candidate for POTUS in 2007 to members of the LNC (I was an Alternate, Region 7) and was guffawed at the bar in Alexandria . . . to his credit, Steve Gordon listened.

    Good Luck, Have Fun.

    Draft Redlich.

  32. Krzysztof Lesiak

    Judge Jim Gray Announces Libertarian Run

    Ryan Jenkins 4-14-20

    “Long time political player Judge Jim Gray announced yesterday he would seek the LP nomination for president of the United States.”
    http://www.american3rdpartyreport.com/2020/04/judge-jim-gray-announces-libertarian-run.html

    Also Reason:

    “Judge Jim Gray, the 2012 Libertarian Party (L.P.) vice presidential nominee and the first sitting jurist to come out against the drug war way back in 1992, announced to his email list Monday that he will seek the party’s presidential nomination in tandem with vice presidential candidate Larry Sharpe.”
    https://reason.com/2020/04/13/judge-jim-gray-to-seek-libertarian-presidential-nomination/

  33. Krzysztof Lesiak

    I see it now, but going on IPR’s home page it doesn’t appear (though it did initially). These glitches on IPR are going to appear forever, I guess. I assume this is one reason why IPR is getting less traffic (based on Alexa) than it did years ago and why there are less comments and lengthy threads. Hopefully these long discussions will return at some point. Edit: It shows up now.

  34. William Saturn Post author

    If you log in it doesn’t lag. If you’re on twitter @I_P_R links to the latest articles as they are posted.

    At least the word salad and RSS problem has been resolved.

  35. paulie

    Truly independent. Large anti-quarantine demo!

    Not all us but good news

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/far-right-coronavirus-protests-restrictions

    It was organized by the Michigan Conservative Coalition, which Michigan state corporate filings show has also operated under the name of Michigan Trump Republicans. It was also heavily promoted by the Michigan Freedom Fund, a group linked to the Trump cabinet member Betsy DeVos.

    But the protest also attracted far-right protest groups who have been present at pro-Trump and gun rights rallies in Michigan throughout the Trump presidency.

    Placards identified the Michigan Proud Boys as participants in the vehicle convoy. Near the state house, local radio interviewed a man who identified himself as “Phil Odinson”.

    In fact the man is Phil Robinson, the prime mover in a group called the Michigan Liberty Militia, whose Facebook page features pictures of firearms, warnings of civil war, celebrations of Norse paganism and memes ultimately sourced from white nationalist groups like Patriot Front.

    Not all us indeed.

  36. paulie

    If you log in it doesn’t lag.

    I don’t think Chris is able to log in anymore.

    At least the word salad and RSS problem has been resolved.

    True. Hopefully will stay that way.

  37. paulie

    These glitches on IPR are going to appear forever, I guess.

    Unfortunately that appears to be the case with the current owner and the hosting package he is willing to pay for. I’m not sure how much the difference is, but if someone is willing to donate it I don’t think it’s a lot of money. The problem began the last time he moved to a less expensive hosting deal, I believe.

  38. paulie

    I suggested an entire membership online, that could vote for their candidate for POTUS in 2007 to members of the LNC

    It would be up to each state party. I’m not sure they would all agree to it. That’s separate from the question of whether it’s a good idea or not.

  39. Losty

    The By Laws can be moved to table until the next convention or to another Plenary when this is over.

    But, (assuming even with everything happening in the country and the world now you don’t WANT to Nominate NOTA and work to end it) you may need a candidate. Honestly, this may be one year where NOTA could be a serious consideration, but assuming it isn’t…

    Since your nomination is contested,

    Maybe have the states select their delegates, and see how many empty slots they have (in states that allow crossover state delegates), Fill those slots if possible, and get them online to see a Debate early (Zoom/Skype/GoTomeeting- YT possibly. Then after a few days have the state Chairs collect a first ballot from their states, and certify those to LNC Chair.

    Lather, Rinse, Repeat until you have NOTA…. Or a candidate.

    Ask for VP Nominations after a Candidate IF NOT NOTA, Then repeat until candidate (IF Not NOTA)

    Can the Delegates just move and approve a motion to extend the terms of office of all LP convention elected officials 1 or 2 years? That would solve the Internal operating committee issues. Chair etc. get carried over 1 year. One sentence motion. Done.

  40. Bondurant

    Not sure anyone can find a better 1 minute evisceration of the Duopoly and the Feds.

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