From Kubby2008.com:
Dear fellow Libertarians,
Our party has nominated its 2008 presidential slate: Congressman Bob Barr of Georgia and Wayne Allyn Root of Nevada are our candidates, and they have my full support. Please visit Congressman Barr’s campaign web site at BobBarr2008.Com and make a generous contribution to his efforts.
Thanks to all of you who supported my campaign — materially and morally. Over time, I believe we’ll see that that campaign had many positive outcomes, even if it didn’t achieve the stated goal of making me our party’s nominee. THANK YOU for keeping me in the fight and allowing me to speak for you in Denver.
In the coming months, I hope to return to you with new ideas and plans for advancing liberty. The first of those plans is for all of us to give Bob and Wayne our blood, sweat, toil and tears for the next five months. Please — join me in doing so.
Let Freedom Grow!
Steve Kubby
Libertarian
LPiberty: honestly, this campaign is totally new territory for the LP. I think that’s one reason why so many are leery and taking a “wait and see” approach. Libertarians are a skeptical bunch, plus we’ve gotten used to a certain kind of campaign. Going outside one’s comfort zone is almost always uncomfortable.
I think the closest the LP has came to this kind of ticket is the 1980 Ed Clark campaign, at least in terms of potential popularity and packaging the message in a way voters can understand emotionally and intellectually. This is definitely an experiment that’s been a long time in the making. I am very excited to see the results and learn whatever lessons come of it so we can maximize the 2012 campaign.
G.E.: Ahhh! I’m so glad you pointed this out! You say the radicals want people to come to us, while the reformers want to go to the people. I see a huge flaw in that rationalization because it doesn’t take into account the inherent laziness most people have. It’s difficult enough getting LP members to attend local meetings and even conventions. If it’s difficult to get the true believers to come, how can we expect those we wish to convert to come to us? You’re going to be waiting an awfully long time.
I see nothing wrong with “taking it to the streets” (sorry, Doobie Bros.). In fact, I think it’s absolutely essential if we want the message to spread and to engage our neighbors in the struggle for liberty.
Again, it’s all about TACTICS. From having observed my fellow Libertarians for the past 18 years, I’ve noticed a distinct aversion to taking the LP to the people. I see “activists” waiting and hoping for people to come to us. That’s not tactics. That’s just an inability to engage and to socialize with others who may believe differently that us. Of course, it’s always emotionally safer to stick with people and situations that are comfortable to you, but can one realistically expect for any substantial increase in liberty that way? Of course not.
I don’t believe in conservatism, but I WANT to attract pissed off conservatives. Why? Because emotionally and intellectually, they are open to new ideas, which makes them ripe for education and possible conversion. You DO want to convert people to libertarianism and the LP, right? Who’s to say Mary Ruwart wouldn’t convert a few pissed off conservatives in the process? Would you be upset if she did convert a few of them?
So, let me ask you: how long are you willing to wait for the “real” libertarians to come to us so we will bring about change in our political system? Five years? Ten years? Twenty years? Longer?
And what will be happening during those years? More liberty trampled underfoot. More interventionist wars, more children kidnapped from their families by CPS, more sick and dying people denied access to medical marijuana, more taxation, more regulation. It saddens me to know that we could be doing practical things RIGHT NOW to turn the tide in our favor while others are simply content to wait it out and talk to small groups of people in intimate settings to convert a handful more to become LP members.
When I was younger (I’m 42 now) and first involved in the LP, I sounded much like you. Life was ahead of me and idealism bloomed. But the cold, hard reality of life set in eventually. While the LP played, people’s lives were suffering. people were being imprisoned on bogus charges, people were literally being killed by our own government…but we were distracted and convinced that the status quo was going to work…if we just gave it enough time. Well, time is running out.
I don’t expect perfect liberty in my lifetime. In fact, I don’t think it has ever existed in this nation. We’ve came close, but missed the mark. But I’ll be damned if I’m not going to try and reclaim as much liberty as possible while I can and when I can. I organized successful campaigns against school bonds and property tax assessments. I was not able to eliminate all taxes, but I managed to save my neighbors millions of dollars. Do you know how it feels to be able to do that? It feels infinitely better than knowing I prevailed in some philosophical debate at an LP convention. What I did was *something*. It was a few steps in the right direction. I made a significant and real world difference in liberty.
The concern over the LP being “destroyed” over something like the Barr/Root ticket is (no offense intended) laughable. The Jerry Spinger drama in Denver resembled something akin to a high school cheerleader spat. I have dealt with death threats and having my car’s tires slashed by REAL enemies of liberty because of my effectiveness in organizing against these taxes and bonds. I have been threatened by the government with six months in jail and a hefty fine one for exercizing my right to free speech at a city park…and I didn’t back down. Your enemy isn’t Bob Barr. it’s the people who ridicule liberty and try desperately to deny us of our freedoms IN THE PRESENT and IN THE FUTURE.
I kindly and respectfully ask for those upset to get some perspective on things. No one has to agree with one person’s tactics over another’s, but what I am seeing is spiteful and malicious talk coming from supposed friends of liberty, PURPOSELY attempting to derail a fairly nominated presidential ticket and ultimately, an organization we have called home.
I don’t see anything like a “radical walkout” happening at this time. A few, maybe, and many more who are still trying to decide whether or not they can get behind the party’s ticket.
Most of the radicals there took a very few minutes to cry in our beer. Momentum toward a walkout seemed to be developing, but there was Kubby, “standing like a stone wall” and pointing back into the convention hall and telling us that our party needs us now more than ever.
So … most of the radicals I know — Steve Kubby, David Nolan, Susan Hogarth, Angela Keaton, et al — are sticking with the party.
We’re supporting the ticket. The level of enthusiasm and activity may vary, but WE ARE NOT THE “REFORMERS” whose predecessors, the Crane people, stormed out in 1983 when they didn’t get their way.
We’re BETTER than that. When WE have a voice in these decisions, we don’t pick up our toys and go home if those decisions don’t go our way every time.
The “reformers” got their way on the presidential ticket. To be honest, I think that’s a GOOD thing. It’s a test case now. They get to show us how right they are and how wrong we are instead of just nattering about it. I’m willing to give them my full support for the next five months. If they were right, I’ll admit it. If they were wrong, they won’t be able to blame it on them radicals running home to momma instead of pitching in.
Some of the same people who couldn’t vote for Ron Paul in the primary because of George Bush are still finding ways to stay in the LP in spite of Bob Barr.
I’m not saying whether that’s right or wrong, I’m just saying that it’s interesting.
If someone could share a bit about party history,
which tickets were ‘pragmatic’ like the Barr/Root ticket. And which were more principled or purist?
Have party members rallied in most cases?
I imagine there is a wiki historical article somewhere.
This is simply for my curiosity. It has no real bearing for me as to where we are and where and how we need to go forward.
Gene – Here is the difference: Reformers want to make the LP a “big tent” party by condoning the initiation of force to achieve political goals. Radicals want to make the LP a “big tent” by standing firmly for liberty and bringing people from the outside to that philosophy. Reformers want to go to the people, radicals want the people to come to us.
Mary Ruwart would have brought in new members, REAL libertarians, not just pissed off conservatives. In an intimate setting, she has an impact on people. This is the setting a presidential candidate has.
We see no point in growing the party if we change what the party stands for. I don’t want to be part of a big party that stands for anti-narco-terrorism, the Fed, DOMA, or a national sales tax — even if it also stands for marginally smaller government and a skoshe more freedom. Not good enough.
Aynrkey: To be fair, both sides are saying “fuck you” to each other. It’s simply not cool, regardless of who is throwing the verbal slings.
There are two very passionate sides in the party and they both have their own vision for how they wish to see things done. The major disagreement is NOT who is purer than the other, but rather a difference in tactics.
It’s the Libertarian Party. People join because they agree with the message and want to use the LP as a vehicle for liberty. Just merely identifying with the LP sets us all apart for the other parties. It may sound dramatic, but it’s really “us” against “them” in terms of political philosophies. We have joined together in common cause. To fight needlessly amongst ourselves only weakens the party and our cause.
Bob Barr is not the first candidate with which *some* Libertarians have found fault. It’s happened before, and it will happen again. Such is the nature of being a political party.
I’m as radical as anyone else in the purist faction, but after being involved in real world politics and actually gaining some success for liberty on a local scale, I realized that purity is the philosophical motivation for engaging in campaigns. The METHOD of campaigning is what determines if you win or lose the battle for enacting one’s Libertarian political ideals.
I am neither “purist” or “reformer”. I have decided to ditch those labels for myself. I am simply Libertarian and regardless of which label one wants to put on themselves, I can and WILL work with them toward our common goal of defending and reclaiming liberty. So long as we can aim in the same direction, all is good. Some may want to educate. Fine. I may want to do things in the electoral realm. Respect how I want to achieve liberty and I’ll respect how you want to achieve liberty. The goal is still the same, we are just taking different routes, that’s all.
Steve Kubby is a class act. I supported Mary Ruwart, but I will now support Bob Barr.
Now is not the time for principled libertarians to leave the field. We have not yet begun to fight.
Peter, you DO want to speak one-on-one with Wayne Root. He is not the same guy away from the cameras. His campaign staff was really Wayne, and two others– that’s it ! He came in to the convention and worked each person that I brought to him in a sincere and polite manner. Most left wanting to support him. That simple– good people skills. I hope he stays the course with the LP because I would bet that the GOP will make a run at WAR some day to have him come back– hope not. Ohio
Wayne has a lot to learn about how to deal with libertarians. We tend to be very suspect of everything, especially newcomers to the party. And he is new indeed. Give him time to evolve and lets see how it plays out. The LP needs to decide if it wants to be a closed-private club of purists or more of a big tent. So what if newbies come in? Why are long time LP members afraid of being “overrun”. Maybe the newbies could be converted to more principled positions. It can work both ways.
Ohio
Gene, didn’t you see where I also wrote “Good for Kubby”? I’m severly disappointed not only with the result of the convention but with the “fuck you” the Reform Caucus is giving the Libertarian Caucus. They are telling us to go fuck off, don’t bother participating, but that we have to show up and vote for conservatives in order to prove that we are loyal libertarians (a line very reminiscent of another party).
I’ve tried to like Barr, but he ducked too many questions. I’m having an even harder time with WAR. Since no outreach is being done by that side, I wonder how much they care about the rest of us. Is this a case of “you are supposed to show up and vote but not actually do anything” the way the major parties treat some of their constituencies? Libertarians are notorious for paying more attention to the quality of the product instead of the brand name attached to it, which is why we’re not in the Repugnant or Demagogue parties. Barr’s supporters are very good at saying “we’re the brand name”, but Barr isn’t very good at saying “yes, my product really is libertarian” and WAR is even worse.
Agreed. When I saw Steve give his impromtu unity speech in the lobby, my opinion of him rose astronomically. As I’ve said before, I think Steve may be single handedly keeping the party together. He is a hero in my eyes.
Aynrkey: if the purist faction feels marginalized, perhaps it’s becuse they did it to themselves due to their own behavior. Walking out en masse accomplished nothing of any positive value. Christine Smith accomplished nothing of any positive value with her hateful diatribes. Frankly, it’s hard to be sympathetic to that kind of behavior and one is tempted to jeer at such displays. It’s only human nature in the face of hostility…and let’s be honest, the so-called “purist” faction came into Denver to rumble.
I understand the big let down. However, it’s how you approach the situation that matters. Steve Kubby and Tom Knapp are approaching this from a positive, unifying position. There is a lot to learn from that.
Good for Kubby. However many of Barr’s supporters are still busy Jeering and telling the Libertarian Caucus that not only aren’t they needed, they aren’t wanted either.
We are expected to show up to vote but not to actually think we can participate.
Hi Jason!
If I offended you in any way, I am sorry. However, I tend to not pussyfoot around with my thoughts these days. Even my wife and daughter say I have gotten pretty blunt over the past 3-4 years. : /
It’s in my personality to give anyone a chance if I feel they deserve it. Bob Barr has done a lot of apologizing and is working to undo some of the things he once supported. It would be rather closed-minded of me to not give someone a chance who appears to be “repenting” of his past wrongdoings. Frankly, I can’t think of a better way for Bob Barr to repent than to put himself out in the public eye as a candidate of a marginalized and ridiculed third party, having to defend our beliefs to voters and the media. Agree with him on everything or not, you have to admit that it’s powerful stuff for someone to very publicly lobby and campaign against the things they once voted for. It goes beyond politics and addresses a big concern of humanity: can someone “rehabilitate” (for lack of a better word at the moment) themselves and sincerely and effectively work to undo the damage he or she has caused? Even the strong pessimist inside me likes think it’s possible. If it’s not possible, then why should employers bother hiring a worker with a criminal history or why even bother attempting to get someone their 2nd Amendment rights restored after being crime free and productive for decades?
I want to see D & R politicians change their ways toward liberty. It’s what we are tirelessly working toward. To reject someone out of hand who is doing the exact thing we want them to do smacks of hypocricy. Why even bother trying to convert them to our viewpoint if all they recieve is grief in return? Sure, keep his feet to the fire. I’m all for that! However, where is the motivation for other politicians who may be thinking about jumping ship to the LP and liberty if they see what kind of treatment Bob Barr is receiving?
A world without hope and a world without second chances is not a world worth living in, IMHO.
Gene,
Hope you read this. Just wanted to apologize for taking shots at you after the convention. I have to admit, much of what you said rubbed me the wrong way. However, you seem like a cool guy.
I’ve been involved with the LP long enough (8 years) to know when to do the right thing. As I stated in my post yesterday at LFV and on my blog talk radio show last night, the “right thing” to do is to give Bob Barr my vote this November.
This was the best thing he could do. He knows the radicals need him now, and he knows they’ll listen to him. More importantly, he’s showing solidarity with the party which shows he’s not just in it for himself.
I have nothing but praise for Steve Kubby for his efforts at unity and party building. The so-called “purist” faction can learn a lot from Steve about building coalitions and doing the necessary work for liberty.
To those threatening to walk out: take a look at Steve. He wasn’t merely a delegate or simply a member like you are. He was a candidate for president and VP. If anyone should feel hurt or rejected, it should be him. However, his strength of character and his resolve for liberty has overcome that.
Remember, when Steve first became active in the LP and was seeking our gubernatorial nomination in 1998, there were some in the “purist” faction questioning Steve’s libertarian credentials and mocking him. Today, he is THE shining star.
Completely agree with Jason Gatties.
Steve Kubby impressed many more through this convention.
I can’t even begin to say how much I respect Steve Kubby now. I learned a lot about this guy over the weekend. I just wish I had gotten to know him sooner.
Thank You Steve!
Correction: LRC, Libertarian Reform Caucus not Lew Rockwell. That’s a whole other thing!
Barr has used the reformer rationale to disguise his actions. As a real RLC reformer I am deeply resentful.
Steve Kubby is just wrong again. Supported republican Ron Paul. Now supports de facto republican Bob Barr. Barr I don’t trust as far as I can spit. Kubby just makes mistakes.
I wonder if Christine Smith told Steve Kubby he’s not a “true libertarian”. I would have liked to see that exchange.