Mark Anderson: ‘Satanism in the Libertarian Party’

Mark Anderson at Freedom Gulch:

How offended are you that the national Libertarian Party Facebook page posted a meme that quoted the Satanic Temple?

If your answer is anything but “I’m not at all offended”, then just stop.

If you didn’t know, the Libertarian Party Facebook page published a meme that did in fact, quote the Satanic Temple. According to many, that was the exact moment the world fell apart. Even taken out of context, there was nothing wrong with the meme. It quoted the 3rd of the 7 Tenets of the Satanic Temple.

One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone. -3rd Tenet, Satanic Temple

Nothing at all unlibertarian about that quote. In fact, I would venture to say that it perfectly exemplifies libertarian thought.

Put into its proper context, the meme makes even more sense. The LP Facebook page has been running a series of memes quoting many of the world’s major and not so major religions and philosophical thinkers. Among the other memes were quotes taken from Leviticus, Buddha, Frank Zappa, and the Unitarian Church. The memes featured quotes representing philosophical thoughts consistent with libertarianism.

Not knowing exactly who was a part in creating the series and thus, unable to speak on their behalf; I personally believe the point of the campaign was to highlight the common ground all these differing religious beliefs have in individual liberty. I believe it was a way to say, “look, we all believe in different things, but here is this one thing that we all passionately believe in, despite our different backgrounds and different ideas”.

One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason. -1st Tenet, Satanic Temple

What is truly laughable is that the vast majority of those offended clearly did not put an ounce of research into the Satanic Temple or what was being quoted. I have seen posts claiming the Libertarian Party is a group of Satanists, that it was poor marketing, or simply that specific meme was poorly timed (it was published several days before Easter).

I didn’t know a thing about the Satanic Temple myself when I first saw the meme, though I thought the quote appropriate for Libertarian publication. So, when I started seeing the snowflake “I’m offended” posts, I checked out their website. I looked at their seven Tenets and I read the FAQ’s page. What I found could have been taken directly from nearly any big or small L libertarian website.

The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. -2nd Tenet, Satanic Temple

It turns out, the Satanic Temple isn’t really a bunch of evil Satanists. They can probably most accurately be described as a cross between anti-religious, libertarian, and humanist. The use the word and imagery of Satan was best described by Libertarian Party Chairman Nicholas Sarwark as ironic.

Their website is really a fascinating read for those who decide to do more than bitch about their name associated with the LP. It is clear that they do not promote evil and worship Satan; they are in fact, promoting the idea of individual liberty while also being decent, reliable, and reasonable citizens. The use of Satan in their name is in the spirit of rebellion and if anything, they are a group of agnostics.

The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own. -4th Tenet, Satanic Temple

So, what we have is a “religion” that promotes peace, justice, liberty, and social harmony. I don’t expect most of those offended to have realized this, because I know most of them never bothered to put any effort into finding any of this out. They took the narrative that the LP was promoting Satanism and evil and ran with it. And it’s such bullshit.

Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs -5th Tenet, Satanic Temple

One of the arguments against the use of the meme was that it was poor marketing, that the LP needs to be more pragmatic. Look, there was no bigger Gary Johnson cheerleader than me for most of 2016. But in a year where the two major parties offered the most unlikable candidates in history, he managed to pull just three percent of the vote. We’ve tried pragmatism to death and it simply hasn’t worked. Libertarianism and the Libertarian Party is bold. The line of thinking that we must be pragmatic comes from the same line of thought that says we shouldn’t say taxation is theft, and there is no question that that line has sparked a ton of interest in libertarianism and the LP.

Watering down our libertarian message only leaves voters with the feeling we are offering a watered-down version of what they already have in the Republican and Democratic Parties. Our candidates are constantly tasked with offering bold and controversial ideas to a populace conditioned to think our rights are bestowed upon us by the government. They need a national party that can be bold with them. As a former candidate myself, I speak from experience. I love the fact that I am a part of a party whose de facto slogan is “Taxation is Theft”. I love that it can brush up against perceived boundaries by quoting a controversial religion.

People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and resolve any harm that may have been caused. -6th Tenet, Satanic Temple

The other great offense this meme is being reported to have committed is the timing coinciding with the week of Easter. But this is such BS, too. As far as I can tell, this ad campaign began March 31st and this meme specifically posted a few days later. Many are saying the LP was being insensitive to the Christian holiday, that it was inappropriate to quote the Satanic Temple during this Holy week. But the fact is, if it would have been published on the Tuesday following Easter, the same people would be claiming the LP was insensitive to be posting it so soon after Easter. If it would have been published two weeks later they would have claimed the month of April, and then the entire Spring. The fact is some people are just looking for reasons to be offended, embodying all they claim to despise about the leftist SJW’s.

Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word. -7th Tenet, Satanic Temple.

A ton of those playing offended have said they are through with the LP because of this meme. That’s sad, that an internet picture of a quote that perfectly aligns itself with libertarianism would compel people to leave the Libertarian Party. In actuality, those people have been looking for a way out for a while. This is just the latest in a series of weak excuses some have grasped ahold of to give themselves a reason to join the shit-show that is the Trump administration and the Republican Party.

I don’t want to see people leave, because I think we are doing great work and I think we’re building something great. But I’d rather the LP be bold and adhere to libertarian principles than water down our message or walk on tip-toes around taboo subjects because we might offend some snowflakes. Especially those who have not bothered to put any actual thought into what they are getting offended about.

Maybe the LP should stay away from quoting religious texts, but most of the people on Earth believe in some form of religion, and highlighting how their religious texts promote libertarianism can only be a good thing. Rather than steer clear of controversy, shine a light on our similarities. Show Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Satanists, and all the rest where their philosophies and ours align. That is what brings people together for a common goal.

45 thoughts on “Mark Anderson: ‘Satanism in the Libertarian Party’

  1. Kevin S Bjornson

    The post here is self-righteous, pompous, windy, and hostile. It’s preaching to the choir to say the least.

    A political party has no business pandering to any religion. In the case of this vanishingly small Satanic sect, there isn’t even a utilitarian pay-off.

    The Satanic post is part of a series that purports to represent all religions (or philosophical viewpoints) but does not. The “Satanic Temple” doesn’t even accurately represent Satanism, as they purport to be atheist. That shows historical ignorance, as the serpent as portrayed in Judeo-Christianity, is a villified version of a former god. Typically, the god of the old religion, becomes devil in the new religion.

    Sure, you can cherry-pick just about any religion and find good parts in it. But they all have a negative side, politically. Particularly Nazism, which is a neo-pagan occult religion with a political aspect. Islam also has a political aspect, and as applied to infidels, has anti-libertarian aspects.

    I’m not interested in Mark’s attempts at philosophy, nor do I share any neo-theocratic goals that religious fundamentalists tend to have. Please go away.

  2. Wang Tang-Fu

    ” self-righteous, pompous, windy, and hostile. …. Please go away.”

    My thoughts about the author of the comment above using those words exactly.

  3. Andy

    I don’t really give a rat’s ass about any religion, but those of you who think that Satanism is good, or harmless, are uninformed. and I’d suggest checking out some or the work of Mark Passio, who is a anarcho-capitalist libertarian from Philadelphia, PA. Mark Passio is a former member of the Church of Satan, and he even became a priest in the organization. He now speaks out against it.

    The New World Order global elites are into the Occult and Satanism.

    Mark Passio says that the Church of Satan is used as a recruiting tool for the elite to find sociopaths and psychopaths that they can recruit and groom into their hierarchy system of control.

    Mark Passio How Satanism Rules The World & The 4 Tenets Of Satanism

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngaqoNcJReU

  4. Wang Tang-Fu

    Well first of all I don’t know Mark Passio or why I should believe him or not about a group he used to be involved with, but even if he’s telling the truth it’s a different group completely from this one. Just like not all groups claiming to be Christian churches are the same, not all groups claiming to be Satanist are the same. Maybe some of them really are dangerous but does that mean all of them are? For example, the People’s Temple led by Jim Jones in Guyana was ostensibly a Christian Church.

  5. Just Some Random Guy

    I’d honestly prefer this faux pas on their part would be forgotten, but as it seems people are going to talk about it, I suppose I might as well join in. So, to answer the question near the start of the article:

    Offended? Not really.

    Convinced it was a thoroughly dumb thing to do? Yep.

    Some comments on the article:

    Put into its proper context, the meme makes even more sense. The LP Facebook page has been running a series of memes quoting many of the world’s major and not so major religions and philosophical thinkers. Among the other memes were quotes taken from Leviticus, Buddha, Frank Zappa, and the Unitarian Church. The memes featured quotes representing philosophical thoughts consistent with libertarianism.

    Okay, so how about putting them all close together so this would be easily identifiable? If something makes sense in proper context, then make that proper context easy to discover. I had to backtrack a decent amount in the Facebook timeline to find another in this series, then backtrack a decent amount to find one before that. Part of that is just how many posts are on their Facebook, but another is they were separated by days or as much as a week. Saying “if you look at it in context” doesn’t mean anything if the context is so hard to discover. Especially when one considers that Facebook posts are, by design, frequently looked at individually with no regard to what came immediately before or after.

    In order to make sure context is seen, why not take ALL of the quotations and put them into just one Facebook post rather than separate ones posted days apart? Then it would be impossible to miss the context.

    It turns out, the Satanic Temple isn’t really a bunch of evil Satanists. They can probably most accurately be described as a cross between anti-religious, libertarian, and humanist. The use the word and imagery of Satan was best described by Libertarian Party Chairman Nicholas Sarwark as ironic.

    Which is exactly why using that quote was so stupid. This is supposed to be about religion (or lack thereof, one of those things was a quote from an atheist). The problem is that, as you say, the Satanic Temple isn’t a religion! It’s just a group of political activists that call themselves the “Satanic Temple” to try to be edgy. So even in the original context of taking quotes from religions, it failed.

    One of the arguments against the use of the meme was that it was poor marketing, that the LP needs to be more pragmatic. Look, there was no bigger Gary Johnson cheerleader than me for most of 2016. But in a year where the two major parties offered the most unlikable candidates in history, he managed to pull just three percent of the vote. We’ve tried pragmatism to death and it simply hasn’t worked. Libertarianism and the Libertarian Party is bold. The line of thinking that we must be pragmatic comes from the same line of thought that says we shouldn’t say taxation is theft, and there is no question that that line has sparked a ton of interest in libertarianism and the LP.

    Gary Johnson still got more than any previous Libertarian, and could’ve done much better if he had gotten into the debates (the debates decide who gets in based on the polls… and we all learned how accurate polls are on election night, right?). Also, you note the two main candidates being unlikable, but that actually can make voters more desperate to vote for one of them, as they’re so fearful of the other getting elected. Finally, your statement presupposes that a more hardcore Libertarian would have done better, which is speculation.

    But even if we ignore all that, your line of reasoning doesn’t really work. There’s a key difference between “taxation is theft” and the deleted meme. They’re both provocative, but at least “taxation is theft” could potentially pay off because a lot of people don’t like taxes. It’s not just provocative to be provocative. But if you’re trying to be provocative by quoting a supposed tenant of a place that calls itself “The Satanic Temple” then you’re really just doing it for the sake of being provocative.

    The other great offense this meme is being reported to have committed is the timing coinciding with the week of Easter. But this is such BS, too. As far as I can tell, this ad campaign began March 31st and this meme specifically posted a few days later.

    Actually, I believe there were two separate postings of memes involving this group (each involved a different tenant). One of them was posted soon after March 31st and while it attracted a small amount of controversy in the comments, otherwise it was ignored. The second, however, was posted later, on I believe the same week as Easter (this was the one that was deleted). So no, not BS.

    And, ultimately, through all your arguments, one thing you didn’t actually bother to say: What would the Libertarian Party have gained through this? Presumably, the point of all of those quotes from religions was to try to convince people of that religion to sign up for (or at least becoming interested in) the Libertarian Party. Now, I question the usefulness of this kind of “identity politics” to begin with, but even accepting that it does work, the Satanic Temple (which again, isn’t actually a religion) is a small group, so you’re not really going to gain anything from going after them, especially if in doing so you run the risk of driving other people away.

  6. dL

    Now that actually is a valid criticism. Anyone have a good response?

    Yeah, because the LP shouldn’t be in the business of kowtowing to right-wing political correctness. If the LP had have posted the Golden Rule, would anyone gotten their ass in a chafe over that? The right-wing christian fundamentalist snowflake outrage to the posting is exactly why it was a great idea to post it. The principle of Self-ownership IS:

    One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s will alone…

    If you have a problem w/ that statement, then you either have a problem w/ libertarianism and self-ownership, or you think the LP should kowtow to the religious right for some unfathomable reason. The weak sauce that the LP shouldn’t be seen as embracing any religion is nonsense. Although I’m an atheist, I would no problem with LP quoting the golden rule b/c I have no problem w/ the statement. Indeed, the golden rule itself predates Christianity. Likewise self-ownership is not property of the Satanic Temple. It is property of the enlightenment. The facebook post was great marketing because it was part of “series of memes quoting many of the world’s major and not so major religions and philosophical thinkers.” And this was one got attention. The only embarrassing about it was the pathetic politically correct committee retreat when some right-wing snowflakes complained.

  7. dL

    The New World Order global elites are into the Occult and Satanism.

    Damn, if the “global elites” are into peace, self-ownership, prosperity, freedom of movement, etc, I say bring on the conspiracy!

    #hailSatan

  8. Wang Tang-Fu

    dL, does that actually address the thrust of JSRG’s specific criticism, as opposed to other criticisms that other people have had?

  9. dL

    dL, does that actually address the thrust of JSRG’s specific criticism,

    Yes…not clear enough? Quoting the statement is an endorsement of the statement, not the religion. Shying away from quoting the statement b/c it might offend others is kowtowing to political correctness. Anyone who has a problem w/ the quoted statement in this instance has a problem w/ libertarianism.

    Personally, I’m in favor of highly publicized pissing matches w/ the right-wing Christian Trump suckers. I think it is good 3rd party politics. And good education. For some uneducated reason, some erroneously suffer the delusion that 3rd politics is about appealing to the median voter theorem.

  10. Tony From Long Island

    Not surprised that Andy rails against the danger of Satanism. Is Satanism today’s Mexican?

    I hereby rail against the danger of Andy the right wing nutbag!

  11. Tony From Long Island

    To paraphrase the words of Anton LeVey, “Satan is the best friend the Church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years.”

    God = the leading cause of death throughout history.

  12. Tony From Long Island

    Wait a second. . . . did I actually just see Gary Johnson’s name in one of these posts? Really?

    Yesterday was national Haiku day. I wrote this one about Trump, but it could easily fit the Gary Johnson obsession of some people”

    “Ask Me a question
    The topic does not matter
    It’s Obama’s Fault” or “it is Johnson’s fault”

  13. Andy

    “Tony From Long Island
    April 18, 2017 at 07:38
    Not surprised that Andy rails against the danger of Satanism. Is Satanism today’s Mexican?

    I hereby rail against the danger of Andy the right wing nutbag!”

    1) So worshiping evil is not dangerous? It is a fact that lots of the ruling establishment controllers are into the Occult. See The Order of Skull and Bones and the Bohemian Grove for two examples. 2) I’m not right wing. See the Nolan Chart.

  14. dL

    So worshiping evil is not dangerous? It is a fact that lots of the ruling establishment controllers are into the Occult.

    So worshiping evil is not dangerous? It is a public fact that lots of the ruling establishment controllers are into Jesus and Christianity.

  15. Andy

    “Wang Tang-Fu
    April 17, 2017 at 21:12
    Well first of all I don’t know Mark Passio or why I should believe him or not about a group he used to be involved with, but even if he’s telling the truth it’s a different group completely from this one.”

    I met Mark Passio in person last year when I went to see Adam Kokesh speak in Philadelphia. Passio was one of the opening speakers, and he was also there to hang out with Adam. I spoke to Mark Passio at the event, and I even sat at the same table as him. I’ve followed him online for a few years, and this, along with meeting him and talking to him in person, makes me think that he’s credible. I told him about my ideas for liberty minded people to take over a low population city/town and/or county, and to implement the Deputize ‘Em plan, that is electing a libertarian Sheriff, who then appoints libertarians as Deputies, and he said that he agreed with me. He also said that he agreed with me about the importance of jury nullification.

    He was a part of the Church of Satan that was started by Anton Levy. There could be different sects that do different things, but I think that whatever he was a part of was mainline Church of Satan.

    I’d say that Satan worshipers fall into two categories:

    1) The naive, often those seeking attention, or those seeking to rebel against something.

    2) The evil. Sociopaths and psychopaths.

  16. Andy

    “dL
    April 18, 2017 at 08:51
    ‘So worshiping evil is not dangerous? It is a fact that lots of the ruling establishment controllers are into the Occult.’

    So worshiping evil is not dangerous? It is a public fact that lots of the ruling establishment controllers are into Jesus and Christianity.”

    This is what they want you to believe. These people use Christianity to dupe the naive and stupid into supporting them. They are no more Christian than Bill Weld is a libertarian.

  17. paulie

    He was a part of the Church of Satan that was started by Anton Levy. There could be different sects that do different things, but I think that whatever he was a part of was mainline Church of Satan.

    Yes, which is different from this group.

  18. Rebel Alliance

    “A ton of those playing offended have said they are through with the LP because of this meme.”

    If I only had a nickel for every time I’ve heard that, on numerous issues. Some people hear 1 issue they disagree with and are ready to drop out, probably going back to the Ds or Rs where they disagree on 50% or more.

    Issues like this are excellent for sorting out the wheat from the chaff. It’s easy to tell who the real Libertarians are who respect freedom of religion, freedom of association, and freedom of speech, while weeding out all the fake “libertarian” Republicans who talk about freedom but don’t have a clue what it means.

  19. dL

    This is what they want you to believe. These people use Christianity to dupe the naive and stupid into supporting them.

    Maybe. But no self-respecting Satanist would ever feign public support for Christianity. Christianity is often the preferred religion for the dupes and the gullible.

  20. dL

    Issues like this are excellent for sorting out the wheat from the chaff. It’s easy to tell who the real Libertarians are who respect freedom of religion, freedom of association, and freedom of speech, while weeding out all the fake “libertarian” Republicans who talk about freedom but don’t have a clue what it means.

    +1

  21. dL

    Not surprised that Andy rails against the danger of Satanism. Is Satanism today’s Mexican?

    More like today’s Mexicans are a satanic plot…

  22. Tony From Long Island

    Andy

    . . . . . So worshiping evil is not dangerous? It is a fact that lots of the ruling establishment controllers are into the Occult. See The Order of Skull and Bones and the Bohemian Grove for two examples. . . . . .

    That one tops them all! You made me actually laugh out loud! You really do need some psychotropic drugs, Andy. #sad!

    I have come to the conclusion that your posts are for “entertainment purposes only.”

  23. paulie

    These “satanists” are actually atheists. They openly acknowledge they do not believe in a literal being of Satan. Their religious precepts sound libertarian. I don’t see anything evil in what they say they believe. It may not be Judeo-Christian morality but it’s not condoning initiation of force either.

  24. DJ

    Most of the people I’ve known in my life called themselves Christian….. at least 90% of those are hypocrites and Republican. The ones I know now love Trump and they hated (literally) Obama. When I tell them I don’t like either that I’m libertarian they get a deer in the headlights look. I suspect if they saw the mentioned meme they would literally shit themselves with glee, mainly because they refuse to read anything that might be controversial and prove them wrong, and you can bet they wouldn’t read the tenets, only where they came from.

  25. Just Some Random Guy

    @ Wang Tang-Fu

    dL, does that actually address the thrust of JSRG’s specific criticism, as opposed to other criticisms that other people have had?

    Obviously I’m biased here, but I would say it doesn’t answer my points. In fact, it seems to ignore them. For example, no mention is made regarding my point about how difficult the context was to see. It doesn’t say anything about my point of how it doesn’t belong in the quote series because this was supposed to be religious quotes and this comes from something that isn’t actually a religion; the Satanic Temple is just a political activist group that uses that name in order to try to get attention, so using it makes as much sense as taking something the Cato Institute said and claiming it’s a religious quote.

    Honestly, the Libertarian Party facebook page should dispense with the posts that are just attempted memes like these anyway. They just pointlessly clutter up the timeline and make it harder to see actually relevant news.

  26. Andy

    “paulie
    April 18, 2017 at 17:42
    These ‘satanists’ are actually atheists. They openly acknowledge they do not believe in a literal being of Satan. Their religious precepts sound libertarian.

    Key word is “sounds” libertarian, but sounding libertarian and being libertarian are not the same thing.

    Watch the Mark Passio seminar I posted above. There is a lot more to Satanism than most of the public realizes.

    “I don’t see anything evil in what they say they believe.”

    You have not dug deep enough.

    “It may not be Judeo-Christian morality but it’s not condoning initiation of force either.”

    It is if you start peeling back the layers in the Satanic system.

  27. George Phillies

    The debate about satinism — I prefer cashmere, wool, or cotton jacquard weaves — is unusually pointless even for this site. Andy is much less sensible than Robert Milnes, so switching their positions would be positive progress.

  28. JT

    It should not surprise anyone that the leadership of the Libertarian Party are all satanists. Libertarianism is all about rebellion against authority, just like satanism. Like Satan, libertarian do not acknowledge the authority of God, the King, the Church and the State, which should be absolute, never questioned and completely joined together. They also rebel against what should be the absolute authority of the Patriarch over his women and children, of the Police over the streets, of tradition over culture and behavior. All these forms of authority should be absolute, unquestioned, and joined together, flowing ultimately from God.

  29. Andy

    “DJ
    April 18, 2017 at 21:36
    Most of the people I’ve known in my life called themselves Christian….. at least 90% of those are hypocrites ”

    Sure, there are lots of people out there who claim to be Christians who don’t understand and/or adhere to their own self professed ideology. There are also lots of people out there who use religion as a shield from which they do bad things behind (Like, “Hey, look at me. I’m a Christian.” this type of person will say, as they stab you in the back and pick your pocket).

    The world is full of hypocrites. Some people who call themselves libertarians don’t understand their own self professed philosophy, and some flat out lie about being libertarians.

    “and Republican. The ones I know now love Trump and they hated (literally) Obama. ”

    There are plenty of Democrats out there who are hypocritical Christians as well.

  30. DJ

    unquestioned, and joined together, flowing ultimately from God.
    Andy
    April 19, 2017 at 09:19

    “DJ
    April 18, 2017 at 21:36
    Most of the people I’ve known in my life called themselves Christian….. at least 90% of those are hypocrites ”
    …………………..

    Sure, there are lots of people out there who claim to be Christians who don’t understand and/or adhere to their own self professed ideology. There are also lots of people out there who use religion as a shield from which they do bad things behind (Like, “Hey, look at me. I’m a Christian.” this type of person will say, as they stab you in the back and pick your pocket).
    …………………..
    Yes.

    The world is full of hypocrites. Some people who call themselves libertarians don’t understand their own self professed philosophy, and some flat out lie about being libertarians.
    …………………
    Yes

    “and Republican. The ones I know now love Trump and they hated (literally) Obama. ”

    There are plenty of Democrats out there who are hypocritical Christians as well.
    ………………….

    I know 2 who admit to being democrats. They are catholic (non-practicing).
    I did say:
    “DJ
    April 18, 2017 at 21:36
    Most of the people I’ve known in my life called themselves Christian….. at least 90% of those are hypocrites ”
    ………………

    I was raised (from age 6 to age 12) in The Church of Christ and as Cody Jinks says; “they’re like Baptist only worse.”
    The ones I know now, and have known the majority of my 68 1/2 years are Baptist and are, IMO, the biggest hypocrites on earth and prove it with their war mongering love of killing everyone but Christians (and Jews). They (and the 2 democrats I know) hate Mexicans, and question the intelligence of anyone not of Anglo descent. A funny coincidence about that is that the ones I’m talking about specifically aren’t originally from Texas. I am. I’ve lived among Mexicans (and befriended them) all my life.

    One only needs to look at the History of the U.S. to see that those who call themselves Christians don’t act Christ like. See Manifest Destiny and ALL the wars we’ve engaged in…..”onward Christian Soldiers, marching off to war”…… and before that is denounced, consider; “I’m too young to march in the infantry, ride in cavalry, shoot the artillery, I’m too young to swoop over the enemy, but I’m in the Lord’s army”….. both popular Christian hymns.

    I’ve no use for “religion” no matter what the ‘sect’.

  31. dL

    The debate about satinism — I prefer cashmere, wool, or cotton jacquard weaves — is unusually pointless even for this site.

    In this instance, it is tangentially relevant to the current news/affairs of the LP.

    Andy is much less sensible than Robert Milnes, so switching their positions would be positive progress.

    Yes. One would expect a tangential discussion to veer to the topic of libertarian-conservative fusionism, with varying factions debating the strategic need to placate the sensibilities of social conservatives. One would not expect it to veer into crackpot conspiracy theories RE: new world order, illuminati… or reference con men who give 2 hour video lectures on the satanic subliminal subtext of The Wizard of Oz.

  32. Kevin S Bjornson

    This is an ongoing problem with the LP.

    The Satanic post was just one of a series. The LP keeps trying to first ignore, and now indirectly repudiate, Ayn Rand and other non-religious people. They posted a Frank Zappa graphic as a token.

    Wes Benedict used his position as LP director, and control of the LP e-mailing list, to promote a non-LP event–a “Christian Libertarian” conference at which he was a speaker.

    Several LP conventions have featured Islamic speakers, some radical.

    Top LP officials regret they got caught and are losing popularity, but they don’t think they did anything wrong.

  33. Marc Montoni

    I think we should pursue areas of agreement with all religions (or nonreligions, as the #SatanicPanic group seems to be).

    Apparently it’s OK to extol Christianity, but mention the Unmentionable religions and we’re all supposed to lose our shit?

    The fauxtrage against LPHQ’s meme is a rather startling reveal of just how extensive bigotry — and hypocrisy — is in the LP.

    That said, 95% of the fauxtrage commentary came from people who have never:

    a) contributed more than $25 to the LP;
    b) collected even one signature on even one candidate petition, and
    c) started up a county LP affiliate.

  34. Kevin S Bjornson

    Even if that were true, (that critics of the LP tend to not contribute much to the LP), that’s self-fulfilling or circular reasoning. Obviously, if a business castigates those of a certain viewpoint, they will tend to have fewer customers of that viewpoint. They can’t then claim that, aha, they are right to criticize that viewpoint because so few of their customers have that viewpoint.

    But in fact that is not the case. I have a life member of the LP, have gathered thousands of signatures for ballot access, have held various positions, and promoted the LP and libertarianism on TV, liberty camps abroad, and on the internet.

    I think what’s really going on here is, LP convention-goers do not represent mainstream libertarians and mainstream Americans, who are nervous about allowing into the US, large numbers of third-world Muslims, mostly male, unskilled, and hostile to western culture. So they want to whitewash Islam by implying all religions are compatible with liberty.

    While in reality, faith and force tend to be mutually reinforcing, and hostile to western culture and liberty.

  35. dL

    I think what’s really going on here is, LP convention-goers do not represent mainstream libertarians and mainstream Americans, who are nervous about allowing into the US, large numbers of third-world Muslims, mostly male, unskilled, and hostile to western culture. So they want to whitewash Islam by implying all religions are compatible with liberty.

    While in reality, faith and force tend to be mutually reinforcing, and hostile to western culture and liberty.

    Nah, more like peckerwood appeals to the least common denominator are much more of a “threat” to liberty than any freakin muslim. The principal at play here is not political correctness. Rather it is “what is done to them will eventually be done to you.”

    Generally speaking, anyone who invokes state power to mitigate “threats” to liberty or “western culture” are neither friends to liberty or civilization.

    have gathered thousands of signatures for ballot access, have held various positions, and promoted the LP and libertarianism on TV, liberty camps abroad, and on the internet.

    Hmmm, a search turns up LP Defense Caucus. Is that you? This is your great contribution to libertarianism
    https://www.facebook.com/LibertarianPartyDefenseCaucus/

    Right-wing Trump sucking authoritarian lunacy…

  36. Kevin S Bjornson

    My, my, I seem to be demonized here. How ironic, given our discussion of Satanism. Oh, I forgot, Satanism is good because it sends a third-finger salute to most Americans.

    Your persuasive powers are exceeded only by your excellent English prose and high intelligence. “peckerwood”, “authoritarian” and “freakin'”–how Shakespearean! How noble and wise! Your incantations have magical powers of persuasion.

    But perhaps you would calm down long enough to tell your audience what you mean when you use big words like “state” and “liberty”. Your mixture of low-brow and high-brow does seem incongruous…

  37. dL

    My, my, I seem to be demonized here. How ironic, given our discussion of Satanism. Oh, I forgot, Satanism is good because it sends a third-finger salute to most Americans.

    The exercise of logic is not demonization, snowflake. And to refresh your frail memory, Satanism is more or less useful b/c it gives Ronnie slurping turncoats like you the third finger salute.

    Your persuasive powers are exceeded only by your excellent English prose and high intelligence.

    Well, it’s a message board, not an english lit class. But even on my best day, my prose admittedly would have little persuasion on pusillanimous, pencil-necked chicken hawks like yourself.

    But perhaps you would calm down long enough to tell your audience what you mean when you use big words like “state” and “liberty”.

    Cash your social security check and buy a class at the local community college if you need a refresher course on political philosophy 101. While you are at, perhaps a Web Browsing for dummies is warranted in your case on basic internet usage and simple html markup user interface conventions. Simply roll you mouse or finger over the username heading and you just might discover, voila, a hyperlink. Click or press on said hyperlink to be redirected to the user’s site. There, you just might find what you requested. However, I should forewarn you w/ a Trigger Warning that the content of that blog may induce grievous psychological trauma for someone like you. I know the consumption of writing in the laissez faire tradition likely may precipitate fear and trembling on your part regarding the terrorist dual use of toilet paper being shipped across the border from trade. May want to immediately rush back over to Libertarian Defense Caucus Facebook page to hold Daddy Trump’s hand.

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