Axios Article Says Governors John Kasich and John Hickenlooper Might be Independent Ticket in 2020

Ballot Access News:

This article by Axios founder Mike Allen says that Governor John Kasich of Ohio, a Republican, and Governor John Hickenlooper of Colorado, a Democrat, could conceivably be an independent ticket in 2020 for president and vice-president.

Axios is a new on-line news source. Allen was formerly Politico’s chief White House correspondent.

It would be ironic if Kasich were to become an independent candidate, because no public official has done more to harm ballot access in the last three years than he has. His attorneys in 2014 spent approximately $700,000 to keep the Ohio Libertarian candidate for Governor off the Libertarian primary ballot. They succeeded, and established an Ohio precedent that candidates can be kept off the ballot if their circulators fail to list their employers on the petition forms, even though that had not been policy before 2014. Thanks to Political Wire for the link.

25 thoughts on “Axios Article Says Governors John Kasich and John Hickenlooper Might be Independent Ticket in 2020

  1. Tony From Long island

    20 years ago Kasich was considered one of the most right wing members of congress. Now he’s a ”
    moderate?”

    Hickenlooper would be excoriated by the left if he did this.

  2. Gene Berkman

    A background note: Mike Allen, founder of Axios, is the son of Gary Allen, long-time writer for The John Birch Society. Mike Allen has made his career as a mainstream journalist, first at Politico.com and now with his own news site.

  3. NewFederalist

    What a ticket! I would prefer the Al Sharpton/David Duke dream unity ticket, of course, but what the hell! 🙂

  4. Dave

    As someone who always likes seeing a third party do well, I’ve mixed feelings about this. It would be fun to see someone do as well as Perot and maybe even be in the debates, but IMO this ticket is just another facade of the establishment, not offering any genuinely new ideas. I worry it could hurt third party efforts in general in 2020, especially since this ticket would likely get the vast majority of third party coverage. And I think if it’s Trump vs. say Warren, a lot of the NeverTrump types would at least be open to voting for the LP if it was the most prominent “outsider” option.

  5. Andy

    Dave said: “I worry it could hurt third party efforts in general in 2020, especially since this ticket would likely get the vast majority of third party coverage.’

    This is exactly why people who are upset with the Democrats and Republicans should avoid this ticket like the plague.

    “And I think if it’s Trump vs. say Warren, a lot of the NeverTrump types would at least be open to voting for the LP if it was the most prominent ‘outsider’ option.”

    The “Never Trump” Republicans are not remotely libertarian. The Libertarian Party ought to avoid these people like the plague.

  6. paulie

    You can have one or the other but not both. A lot of people who are upset with DnRs are not remotely libertarian. So either the LP avoids these people like the plague and they go for someone like the puckered asshole pictured above, or the LP courts them with the hope that it can outcompete Kasich and others like him for these upset but not remotely libertarian voters’ money and votes and keep Kasich et al from jumping in.

  7. Dave

    Andy:

    “The “Never Trump” Republicans are not remotely libertarian. The Libertarian Party ought to avoid these people like the plague.”

    Oh I don’t much care for these people either, especially since most of them that I’ve spoken to seem most upset (or did in 2016) that Trump was not hawkish enough for them. But a vote is a vote. If the choices are Trump, a leftist dem like Sanders or Warren, the LP, and the Greens, I think a lot of them might go for the LP. Those who were able to support Clinton might find Sanders a bridge too far to cross, even in protest.

    Of course it’s probably just a hypothetical regardless, because even if Kasich did not jump in I’m sure someone like McMullen would again, and he’d probably capture the lion’s share of their votes. But if it’s like last time in many states the LP will be the only third option,and it might be able to see some increased support here.

    Mostly I just want to see the LP reach 3%+ again. I expect the Greens totals to go down as some leftists decide to just vote dem regardless because they view Trump as so bad, but I think the LP has a good shot at another strong performance (at least historically for the party.)

  8. Andy

    “Dave
    August 25, 2017 at 21:51
    Andy:

    ‘The ‘Never Trump’ Republicans are not remotely libertarian. The Libertarian Party ought to avoid these people like the plague.’

    Oh I don’t much care for these people either, especially since most of them that I’ve spoken to seem most upset (or did in 2016) that Trump was not hawkish enough for them”

    The Libertarian Party essentially got hijacked by “Never Trump” Republicans (they even had trolls posting on message forums frequented by Libertarians, such as right here at IPR) when Bill Weld came into the party and got the Vice Presidential nomination by flooding the convention with delegates and spewing a bunch of bullshit (like the $250 million that was supposed to come in, and the joint fundraising committees that the Johnson/Weld campaign was supposedly going to set up with state parties, all bullshit).

    “But a vote is a vote. If the choices are Trump, a leftist dem like Sanders or Warren, the LP, and the Greens, I think a lot of them might go for the LP. Those who were able to support Clinton might find Sanders a bridge too far to cross, even in protest.”

    These are people who’d only consider voting for a Libertarian Party candidate who was completely corrupted and not really a libertarian. If the Libertarian Party nominates an actual libertarian ticket in 2020, like say Adam Kokesh were to win the presidential nomination, the “Never Trump” Republicans would not touch the Libertarian Party with a ten foot pole, which is all the more reason to nominate someone like Kokesh (or anyone else who has actual libertarian views that would turn away the “Never Trump” Republican crowd, as these are people who would never have gotten behind somebody like Ron Paul or Michael Badnarik or Harry Browne or anyone else like them).

    Also, keep in mind that even after Bill “CFR” Weld was on the LP’s presidential ticket, some of the “Never Trump” crowd still would not support the LP’s ticket, some of them did, but some of them would not, because there are still enough real libertarians in the Libertarian Party that they did not want to bring more attention to the Libertarian Party, and they did not want the Libertarian Party to gain ballot access from increased vote totals in states where this applied. They may have hijacked the LP’s presidential ticket, but the last thing that they want to do is to bring more attention to the real libertarians who are still left in the Libertarian Party. This is why some of the “Never Trump” people searched for another person who was to their liking to run for President, and they came up with Evan McMullin, but by the time they found him, it was too late to get him on the ballot in most states, so they were only able to get him on the ballot in 10 states, and when you total the number of votes McMullin received in these 10 states, plus the number of write in votes he received in states where he was not on the ballot, but where he write in votes got tallied and reported, he received over 716,000 votes, which is an impressive vote total for a guy who had been an unknown and who jumped into the race late and only got on the ballot in 10 states.

    I don’t see anything good coming from the LP doing anything to cater to “Never Trump” Republicans, and I will not be surprised if they recruit Evan McMullin, or somebody like him (maybe this Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket mention above) to run in 2020.

    The Libertarian Party needs to nominate at ticket in 2020 that can plausibly be considered to be libertarian, which has not happened since 2004, There will likely be another attempt at hijacking the LP’s presidential ticket by some con-artist poser(s) who will probably come in from one or both of the major political parties. The only way to prevent another hijacking of the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination from happening by people who really aren’t so libertarian, if they are libertarian at all, is for more people who are serious about promoting a stronger libertarian message to get off of their asses and become delegates and actually show up at the national convention.

  9. paulie

    If the Libertarian Party nominates an actual libertarian ticket in 2020, like say Adam Kokesh were to win the presidential nomination, the “Never Trump” Republicans would not touch the Libertarian Party with a ten foot pole, which is all the more reason to nominate someone like Kokesh

    That’s certainly a valid viewpoint. But have you considered the counterpoint that when people like the Never Trump Republicans then seek a different ticket such as the hypothetical Kasich-Hickenlooper one, we can’t expect everyone who is sick of the D/R-oids to stay away from e.g. the Kasich-Hickenloopers of the world? After all, not everyone who is sick of the DNR party/ies is even remotely libertarian, as you yourself say. So why wouldn’t they seek to nominate and support a ticket closer to their own beliefs as independents or some new party?

    In other words, you can either have the LP nominate a ticket that we can hope would unite the bulk of the anti-duopoly opposition behind us (which may or may not work) or we can nominate a hardcore libertarian ticket and have other candidates such as Kasich or whoever emerge. But we can’t reasonably expect to nominate a hardcore libertarian ticket *and* have all the would-be Kasich supporters vote for us anyway.

  10. Starchild

    Obviously Johnson/Weld being on the ballot in 50 states in 2016 wasn’t enough to unite the anti-duopoly opposition behind the LP banner, which raises the question of just how un-libertarian or mainstream a ticket the LP would hypothetically have to nominate in order to achieve such unity.

    If we were to seek such a “unity” ticket, I think it should be with other alternative parties like the Greens and Constitution Party, not with disaffected “Never Trump” Republicans who have no real commitment to bringing down the cartel parties.

    A hardcore libertarian ticket would attract anti-establishment-oriented voters who would sit out an election before voting for a ticket like Barr/Root or even Johnson/Weld. Maybe not enough to outnumber the “Never Trump” types who’d shun such a libertarian ticket, but as was noted their willingness to vote Libertarian depends largely on whether or not someone like Evan McMullen runs.

    Besides attracting more of the libertarian base and others who want real change, a hardcore libertarian ticket has another big advantage that isn’t talked about as much, and that is the inspirational effect it would have on Libertarian activists. Many who will vote for and dutifully support a Gary Johnson or a Bob Barr nominated by the party, in some cases while holding their noses, just won’t have the passion to get out and really work their butts off for such a campaign the way they would if we run a hardcore candidate like Adam Kokesh or Mary Ruwart, or perhaps even someone like Justin Amash or Peter Schiff. I suspect that a strongly libertarian candidate in 2020 could do surprisingly well compared to the party’s results in 2016. As Andy notes, the LP hasn’t run a hardcore presidential ticket since 2004, and that was before the Ron Paul r3VOLution woke a lot of people up.

  11. paulie

    Obviously Johnson/Weld being on the ballot in 50 states in 2016 wasn’t enough to unite the anti-duopoly opposition behind the LP banner, which raises the question of just how un-libertarian or mainstream a ticket the LP would hypothetically have to nominate in order to achieve such unity.

    It was not enough to unite the anti-duopoly opposition, but it’s probably why the folks who recruited McMullin failed to recruit a better known person of similar beliefs, recruit him or her earlier, and put him or her on a lot more ballots than they did McMullin. Had Weld been at the top of the ticket, which keep in mind is not what I am suggesting, I am guessing they would have failed to even recruit McMullin – just a guess, but not an entirely uninformed one.

    If we were to seek such a “unity” ticket, I think it should be with other alternative parties like the Greens and Constitution Party, not with disaffected “Never Trump” Republicans who have no real commitment to bringing down the cartel parties.

    Even if that were to somehow come together it would do little to stop someone like Kasich from running. On the other hand, is Weld better than Kasich?

    A hardcore libertarian ticket would attract anti-establishment-oriented voters who would sit out an election before voting for a ticket like Barr/Root or even Johnson/Weld.

    Yes, some, but those aren’t very large numbers, relatively.

    Besides attracting more of the libertarian base and others who want real change, a hardcore libertarian ticket has another big advantage that isn’t talked about as much, and that is the inspirational effect it would have on Libertarian activists.

    I agree with you there, which is why I prefer a hardcore libertarian ticket. But I acknowledge it does not keep someone like Kasich out of the race.

  12. Anastasia Beaverhausen

    “… if we run a hardcore candidate like Adam Kokesh or Mary Ruwart, ”

    Combine the best parts of the two and you get Angela Keaton, who I’d wholeheartedly support .

  13. Andy

    “Starchild
    August 26, 2017 at 09:57
    Obviously Johnson/Weld being on the ballot in 50 states in 2016 wasn’t enough to unite the anti-duopoly opposition behind the LP banner, which raises the question of just how un-libertarian or mainstream a ticket the LP would hypothetically have to nominate in order to achieve such unity.”

    Ron Paul was actually bringing in a large coalition of diverse people during his runs for the Republican presidential nomination from 2007-2012. I got pretty involved in the Ron Paul r3VOLution, and I can tell assure you that most of Ron Paul’s support was not coming from the rank-and-file Republicans. His support included a coalition of people there were Libertarians, small “l” libertarians (some had been in the LP, but had quit because they were frustrated with the party, and others had been non-voting anarchists), independents, former non-voters who had been disinterested in politics, former Democrats, former Greens, and Constitution Party and other conservative types who weren’t happy with the Republican establishment.

    Ron Paul did this as an older guy, who ran a pretty radically libertarian campaign within the confines of the Republican Party (his campaign was more radically libertarian than any Libertarian Party presidential campaign since 2004), and he did this as a guy who comes off as socially conservative in his personal life, and who does not support abortion (although his campaign platform was that it should be left to the states). Ironically, Ron Paul was more effective at reaching out to the left than most self professed left-libertarians are.

    I don’t think that it is desirable for the Libertarian Party to run candidates that stray as far, or further, from libertarian principles as Johnson/Weld did in order to appear “mainstream,” with the theory that this will cause people to support the Libertarian Party. There are already candidates for people who want candidates like this to support. They are called Democrats and Republicans.

    Trying to turn the Libertarian Party into a centrist or moderate party is a counterproductive idea. If some new party emerges that appeals to centrists/moderates, then so be it. The purpose of the Libertarian Party is not to promote the middle of the Nolan Chart, it is to promote the top of the Nolan Chart. I don’t think that this means that the party necessarily has to always run only the most radical candidates, but the party should run candidates who can clearly be differentiated as not being centrists or moderates, and who are well within the Libertarian section of the Nolan Chart.

    “not with disaffected ‘Never Trump’ Republicans who have no real commitment to bringing down the cartel parties.”

    Yes, the “Never Trump” Republicans aren’t interested in liberty. They are just mad that their preferred version of an authoritarian cartel party candidate did not win the election.

    “A hardcore libertarian ticket would attract anti-establishment-oriented voters who would sit out an election before voting for a ticket like Barr/Root or even Johnson/Weld. Maybe not enough to outnumber the ‘Never Trump’ types who’d shun such a libertarian ticket, but as was noted their willingness to vote Libertarian depends largely on whether or not someone like Evan McMullen runs.”

    Like I said above, these establishment types may like a candidate like Bill Weld, but they also don’t want to bring too much attention to the Libertarian Party, and for the Libertarian Party to pick up ballot access in more states (not all states determine ballot access via presidential vote totals, but some do), as long as there are still a good number of people who can legitimately be called libertarians in the Libertarian Party. This is why they got Evan McMullen to enter the race. If McMullen had not been in the race, I’d bet that a lot of these people would not have voted in the presidential election, or they would have voted for Hillary Clinton, or cast a write in vote for perhaps Jeb Bush, or John Kasich, or Mitt Romney, or some other Republican establishment type. Sure, some of them may have voted for Johnson/Weld, but some of them hate the Libertarian Party so much that they would not vote for anyone running under the Libertarian Party label.

    “Besides attracting more of the libertarian base and others who want real change, a hardcore libertarian ticket has another big advantage that isn’t talked about as much, and that is the inspirational effect it would have on Libertarian activists.”

    Bingo!

    ” As Andy notes, the LP hasn’t run a hardcore presidential ticket since 2004, and that was before the Ron Paul r3VOLution woke a lot of people up.”

    Bingo again!

    The Ron Paul r3VOLution scared the crap out of the political establishment. I think that this had a lot to do with the hijacking of the last three Libertarian Party presidential tickets by people who really weren’t so libertarian, if they were libertarian at all. I think that this also had to do with the co-opting/neutering of the TEA Party movement into something that was ineffective, and counterproductive. I think that it also had something to do with the internal sabotage that took place in the Constitution Party as well.

    The Ron Paul r3VOLution woke up a lot of people, and got them to get active in the fight for liberty, but a lot of movement has lost its momentum, and it broke apart and scattered in different directions. The Libertarian Party has benefited from the Ron Paul r3VOLution, but not nearly to the extent that it could have, mostly because the party practically went of its way to fail at doing this.

  14. Andy

    “paulie
    August 26, 2017 at 07:14
    ‘If the Libertarian Party nominates an actual libertarian ticket in 2020, like say Adam Kokesh were to win the presidential nomination, the “Never Trump” Republicans would not touch the Libertarian Party with a ten foot pole, which is all the more reason to nominate someone like Kokesh’

    That’s certainly a valid viewpoint. But have you considered the counterpoint that when people like the Never Trump Republicans then seek a different ticket such as the hypothetical Kasich-Hickenlooper one, we can’t expect everyone who is sick of the D/R-oids to stay away from e.g. the Kasich-Hickenloopers of the world? After all, not everyone who is sick of the DNR party/ies is even remotely libertarian, as you yourself say. So why wouldn’t they seek to nominate and support a ticket closer to their own beliefs as independents or some new party?

    In other words, you can either have the LP nominate a ticket that we can hope would unite the bulk of the anti-duopoly opposition behind us (which may or may not work) or we can nominate a hardcore libertarian ticket and have other candidates such as Kasich or whoever emerge. But we can’t reasonably expect to nominate a hardcore libertarian ticket *and* have all the would-be Kasich supporters vote for us anyway.”

    I don’t really give a shit what the people who’d support a John Kasich/John Hickenlooper type of ticket do. Yeah, it would be great if everybody was a libertarian, and everybody voted for candidates who were actually libertarians, but this is just not reality.

    Libertarians can’t control what other parties do, or what independent candidates or new parties emerge. Libertarians should focus on promoting the libertarian message.

  15. paulie

    Fair enough. But you said “This is exactly why people who are upset with the Democrats and Republicans should avoid this ticket like the plague.” Which would not be the case for a lot of them as it would come closer to their beliefs than anyone we would run, or they would think these people have a better shot at winning or at getting enough votes to force some policy concessions.

  16. Sam Nelson

    Doesn’t matter if you get elected that’s just a bonus if it happens. Meanwhile, the money is really good, the laws regarding political campaigns lax or so it seems. For the gentiles that’s what it is all about, money, cause, if they get elected they are not going to do anything but what they are told to do by the tribe. The christian face on things is all the Banker King is looking for, nothing else.

  17. Ad Hoc

    Sam Nelson

    Sounds anti-semitic in a paranoid sort of way. Don’t let the lizard people get you.

  18. Pingback: John Kasich denies reports he is considering Independent run in 2020 | Independent Political Report

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