H/T George Phillies; text version is at Gold America Group. The short version is that Rachel Hawkridge says she was unjustly purged from the Libertarian National Convention Oversight Committee. The attachment details her case for anyone who wants the long version: Convention Defense.
Some prior discussion of this issue already took place in the election predictions thread. At that time I asked that people hold off that discussion so that we would get a chance to get in some election predictions, and promised to give it its own thread after the election. This is that thread, if anyone wants to continue that discussion. We’ll have another thread comparing our readers’ election predictions with actual results in the next couple of days.
…it’s not just the high you get from smoking pot at a Libertarian function, anymore!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/quotes
Pvt. Joe Bowers: Man, I could really go for a Starbucks, y’know?
Frito: I don’t really think we have time for a handjob, Joe.
LOL, it’s actually a real place in China
http://liuzhou.blog-city.com/starfucks.htm
http://www.counterfeitchic.com/Images/Starfucks.jpg
@128 Hi Angela
http://www.catherineomega.com/2009/07/blogathon-2009-the-typography-of-idiocracy/
…scroll down
Rachel Hawkridge won’t fuck Aaron Starr. That’s a problem.
She’s not a pair of 19 year old soccer player ass cheeks for Jim Lark to stick in his shriveled dick. That’s a problem.
When Hawkridge gets with the game and lets old fucks feel her up, they’ll stop picking on her.
Rape. It’s what’s on the agenda.
@109 & 116
He’s a scam and a hack. Come to my show if you want REAL entertainment!
Posted this on another thread, but this one is more current. Since this all started with a convention committee….
Posted on facebook, sent to me by Erik G. This may or may not become its own post later.
http://www.facebook.com/notes.php?id=143100765736596¬es_tab=app_2347471856
We Support a DFW, TX LP National Convention in 2012
Friends,
As many of you know our LNC is currently working on a location for the 2012 National Convention. The 2 contenders are DFW, TX and Las Vegas, NV. As you can imagine I am admittedly for DFW. Not just because I am a native, but looking at the reasons it seems the most logical choice. I have included both my comments to LNC and the report from Doug on the search committee. I would encourage you to look at the info in front of you and then contact the LNC sharing your support. Just like any other elected official they are there to listen to the will of the people. (ME AND YOU!) I have also included their emails!
To the Distinguished Chair of the Libertarian Party,It’s Officers, Representatives and Alternates,
I am writing you today to encourage you to vote FOR DFW, Texas hosting the 2012 National Convention. All bias aside, as a native Texan, from the report I read, DFW is the strongest choice. Central Location, Media Coverage, Local Affiliate Strength and Lowest Hotel rates were all listed as great reasons for hosting in DFW. The quad, Dallas County/Tarrant County/Collin County/Denton County, are some of the strongest parties in Texas. There are many Libertarians here, like myself, that are committed to facilitating a strong, successful convention in 2012. Again, I hope you will vote FOR a DFW, Texas 2012 National Convention!
For Liberty,
— Zachary Smith
Founder- Young Libertarians of Texas
http://www.yltexas.org?
IT’S WORKING! The following is a message recieved from one of the Alternates and my response follows:
With all due respect, we are being flooded with repetitive emails from your fine state. I understand that this is an important matter, but speaking for myself, as I can’t speak for other LNC members or alternates, the more emails I receive, the less happy I become. I understand the great things about Dallas; I’ve been to conventions there in the past. I think we all understand. But at this point, I’m feeling spammed and I know one other person feels the same. Less is more at this point, please.
Marakay Rogers
Alternate 5S
Marakay,
I am the one who started the Facebook Page and the Email campaign. While I fully understand that a barrage of emails can be a little overwhelming, I must remind you that you are a representative of the people. That means that you must be open to the voice of the people. This is very similar to campaigns in which we Libertarians contact our State or Federal representatives on bills and legislation that we support or oppose. Clearly it is important to many not only here in the great state of Texas, but all over the US to see a DFW NatCon. We are taking time out of our busy lives to send you and other members of the committee support letters for something that is very important to us. The goal here is not to frustrate, inundate or intimidate, but to make sure that the voice of the people are heard. I appreciate your commitment to the LP and to her members and hope that you will listen to our call!
Thank you for your service and your time!
— Zachary Smith
Founder- Young Libertarians of Texas
http://www.yltexas.org
[email protected]
This isn’t your responsibility, Paulie. It’s the responsibility of the LNC to investigate this and deal with it. Realistically, you could investigate it yourself, but ultimately they would have to investigate as well. No, I’m actually calling on THEM to get the facts on this and act, either way. That’s the only way this high school nonsense will be brought to a close, is if there are substantial consequences for misbehavior.
Well, I emailed Rachel asking her to give me a call. She hasn’t called me.
Paulie @117: What investigation would I recommend? Only the obvious, to start. ASK HER. Talk to those who, as I mentioned in my original post, said they heard her admit it on a conference call. The account from which she sent the emails should belong to the LNC, and they should be able to get into the account and see what emails were sent when.
Find out which emails Hawkridge did not receive. Then get the members of the committee to send copies of those messages to the investigator and CHECK THE HEADER. If Hawkridge is not listed, it would appear the information was not sent to her.
It’s not rocket science.
By the way, remind me. In last 4 odd years, who else has been (or attempted to be) removed from LNC or sub-groups – and what percent were women? Angela Keaton rings a bell. Mary Ruwart? Remind me, kind sirs…
The problem in these cases often is someone who wants to get rid of someone nitpicking the mere appearance of unsatisfactory behavior and others falling for it – or being pressured by peer pressure or threats or blackmail or whatever into going along with it. Maybe someone didn’t like the fact that she’s on LPradicals discussion list and posts there from time to time (not to mention any other evidences of “radicalism.”) Apparatchiks are everywhere pulling stuff like this for their own selfish motivations…
You may want to read this…. http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2007_2nd/Jun07_GoldenRule.html
I have no reason to believe his motivation was anything other than what he said. However, I don’t think anyone is going to help you if you don’t think there is a problem and don’t want any help, particularly some stranger by showing up at your door, so I don’t see what purpose leaving the address up would serve.
Honestly, I didn’t think it was a big deal, since it took me all of about 15 seconds to find it, and if I had left it up, I still don’t think one single person would show up at your door as a result of that, ever.
If someone was in fact motivated to find you, whether to harm you or try to help you, it would be very easy for them to find it on their own.
However, it was just as easy to take it down as it was to find it. So, since I was asked, no problemo.
On the other hand, I have no way of taking it down from the other web pages where it is posted.
Not a problem. You’re welcome.
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2010/11/oregon-libertarian-convention-broadcasting-live/
Well, one side of the story is in the attachment. The other side did not offer a response, as it appeared to have attracted minimal interest, at least here. Of course, the story is still here and still open for comments, and seems to have received some revived interest, but what investigation would you suggest anyone do?
If you’re the real Richard Cheese, I dig your work (“Lounge Against the Machine”)!
I doubt it is, but I do too.
cm: It’s his right to appoint and replace people on that committee even without reason. It doesn’t make people smile when a chair acts precipitously or seemingly so, but there’s no technical fault there.
me: Bingo. The “right” to act precipitously =/= it’s wise to act precipitously. LNC members are volunteers, and should be treated with respect and cordiality.
The Golden Rule is not a “religious” suggestion. It’s actually an immutable law for ethical behavior, IMO. I wonder if Hinkle asked himself, If the situation were reversed, how would I feel if Hawkridge dismissed me under these circumstances, based on incomplete information? Perhaps he did…dunno.
Words like this “As I said, you can quit or I’m going to remove you. I would think resigning would be the best course for you, but it’s your choice. I think they is a difference between quiting and being fired. Perhaps you don’t. I recommend you resign. It’s your call…….but by midnight tonight please. do not sound like the words of a compassionate, merciful, open mind to me. They sound curt, flip, dismissive, and dictatorial. “Please” doesn’t soften it, IMO.
Even if this was a massive misunderstanding over a small matter, I hope and trust that the actors learn some better lines next time.
Inspiring smiles is a big part of the job!
Carolyn @102 agreed on both issues.
Richard Cheese @104, agreed. Thank you for your comment.
It is a matter of propriety. Addresses, even email addresses are rarely in IPR comments. & I don’t believe Starr is concerned about my mental health.
paulie was a little too eager to help Starr with my address. He is correct that I am a candidate so I forfeit some degree of privacy. & I have mentioned several times thatI live in Camden, arguably the worst city in the U.S.-a sort of negative pride. That is a whole other issue.
editing the address is about the best option. Thank you for that.
The contradiction between Hawkridge & Mattson should not stand as is.
I, for one, would appreciate further clarification from Prof. Phillies.
@85 That revolution has been televised on Justin.TV.
To clarify, I doubt that she lied or received the documents if she says she didn’t. But IF she did, then she should resign.
Yes, and if Hawkridge did in fact receive the documents and lied about their being withheld (something I doubt), then it is she who should resign. But either way, this cannot stand.
@ 102 Carolyn writes “The allegation has been raised by Hawkridge and verified by people who were on a conference call who heard Mattson admit this, that Mattson did not send the information to Hawkridge. Why isn’t anyone investigating this? If Mattson is guilty of deliberately withholding information from Hawkridge, she owes Hawkridge a public apology if not her resignation for such an egregious breach of her duties as secretary. ”
If the secretary did withhold documents as as reported here then she needs to resign.
@104,
If you’re the real Richard Cheese, I dig your work (“Lounge Against the Machine”)!
I took out the street address. He’s mentioned numerous times that he lives in Camden.
Thanks. 🙂
If you can leave the post and just chop the address, that would be ideal, but whatever you can do.
OK, I’ll edit it out.
My address may well appear on some website somewhere — in fact, when I held a fundraiser at my house, it was published with a picture that it took me months to get rid of. I myself would not be pleased to have such information put out by someone other than myself.
My sense of it is that that information is his to disseminate if he wants people to have it, not Starr’s, not yours. If something were to happen to him because of it, while you probably would be free of legal liability, you would still feel pretty lousy about it.
I suppose you can ask him if he wants everyone on the planet who is looking for Bob Milnes to be able to find him. If so, I imagine he’d have published his address himself. My guess, though, given his history and his posts here, is no.
@103:
I think it’s an issue of propriety. The State has a use for that information; Mr. Milnes gave it to THEM, possibly even with the understanding that THEY retained the right to redistribute it.
I do not believe IPR has any such license. Public domain or no, if someone wants to know how to find Mr. Milnes, let them put in the appropriate legwork.
Paulie or whoever has the ability to do so, please remove that post to protect Milnes’ privacy and security.
Since he was a candidate for office who filed with state agencies, that address is easily found within a few seconds of web search on several websites.
I still do not know whether it is current, but do you think it endangers him to publish here what is already published elsewhere?
RE: Post 73, I’m sorry, but… are we in the habit of publishing other people’s private information like addresses and such on IPR?
Paulie or whoever has the ability to do so, please remove that post to protect Milnes’ privacy and security.
Starr, I appreciate that you are concerned about Milnes’ mental health (and believe me, you’re not the only one), but you’re a smart guy. There are better ways of verifying that information if you’re really interested in helping him.
Back to the topic at hand:
I like Hawkridge, but ultimately, this isn’t about her being dismissed from the COC. The chair has the prerogative to do that, so be it. Of more concern is the allegation that she did not receive critical emails with spreadsheets that were sent to other members of the committee, which documents were necessary to her active participation in the committee.
So what I believe should be at the front of everybody’s mind here on this is WHY A MEMBER OF THE CONVENTION COMMITTEE DID NOT RECEIVE DOCUMENTS SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO RECEIVE FROM THE SECRETARY.
I’ve already talked to Hinkle about how I feel about his dismissal of Hawkridge from the committee. I made clear that I felt that such an action needed clear answers to several questions that I did not feel had been adequately investigated before anyone could feel confident of a decision, but ultimately, it was his call. Okay, fair enough. It’s his right to appoint and replace people on that committee even without reason. It doesn’t make people smile when a chair acts precipitously or seemingly so, but there’s no technical fault there.
But there’s a bigger issue here. Not sending documentation to certain members of certain committees can have a very serious impact on the actions of that committee. Considering that the convention is the ONLY thing the LNC is required to do every 2 years, that means this is a serious issue. By releasing information selectively, a secretary can manipulate votes and get people removed or replaced on committees with people more amenable to a given agenda, say, having a convention in one candidate’s home town, with repercussions that could affect the party for years down the line.
The allegation has been raised by Hawkridge and verified by people who were on a conference call who heard Mattson admit this, that Mattson did not send the information to Hawkridge. Why isn’t anyone investigating this? If Mattson is guilty of deliberately withholding information from Hawkridge, she owes Hawkridge a public apology if not her resignation for such an egregious breach of her duties as secretary.
If Mattson DID send the information to Hawkridge, then Hawkridge’s allegation is false, and it is she who owes Mattson an apology and possibly her resignation.
One or the other.
Oh look, Phillies is playing rabble-rouser again. Looks like the lessons from the last time he played his little game didn’t stick. Hey Phillies! You’re a sore loser!
Perhaps I’m finally going mad, but I like Bruce’s suggestion @44. The only difficulty I can see is that it might be tricky to find flights into Palm Springs Int’l.
From the times I have talked to Rachel Hawkridge in person, on the phone or in email/web comments, she certainly has not struck me as right wing. Smith and Kirkland have been on the opposing side from the right-leaning faction in the national party; I’ve been around them too, and didn’t get a “right wing” vibe from them, either.
Snitker does lean right, that part is true. Yet even his campaign took the time and initiative to point out that they were getting support from the left.
What phone calls do you suggest for this investigation of yours?
Sorry, Mr. Phillies, Hawkridge and Kirkland may suck up to you but they’re right-wing plants more destructive than Starr in your wildest accusations. They worked to destroy the LP Florida, promote right wing kooks like Snitker and Smith, secret meetings, and so on.
IMHO they have worked with people on LNC to destroy the LP Florida, and I hope this means the Chair is waking up.
Meanwhile, people in Florida are talking lawsuit, and I hope that includes these anti-Libertarians in “radical” clothing.
Investigate that, Mr. Phillies. Make some phone calls. Nolan too.
Be Rational @ 95 sounds rational to me, makes sense.
Catholic Trotskyist should from now on be known as “Cat Trots”.
That describes it all.
Robert Milnes has great ideas. Even though they don’t always concur with my ideas, they are still important for the functioning of the Third Party movement, and could make it relevent if people tried them. But they won’t, so they’ll keep joining the Crazy Losers club.
The only alternative is Catholic Trotskyism; New World Order revolutionary Catholic Socialism facilitated by Barack Obama.
Rachel Hawkridge, leave the LP where you are mistreated, and join Catholic Trotskyism.
Let’s make this thread even more insane than the Chelene threads.
Columbus, Ohio
Dallas, Texas
Las Vegas, Nevada
These would all be good locations for the next National Convention.
The decision should be based on many factors, as the committee is well aware, that include: ability of the local organizers to handle the convention, cost to attendees, ease of travel, multiple travel, housing, and meal options, conducive to sending a resonating message to the media and the public.
The one thing that should be ignored is whether the state could be the home state of a potential candidate for the LP nomination. We need to have this location set and the dates and meeting sites and accommodations locked in long before the campaign for the nomination gets serious. With more than a dozen potential candidates’ names being kicked about and any number of unknowns, all the best sites would be excluded.
As to the make up of the committee: if the committee members are properly appointed and removed by the chair, and if the chair is accountable for the successful operation of the National Convention and its successful conclusion, then the chair has to act accordingly and maintain the optimal membership of the committee so it can achieve its goals.
If somebody pays Milnes a nasty visit, well, it’s not my fault. His address was published in IPR; anybody could have read it. I was just trying to help the poor mental case.
A rare brain disease transmitted by mosquitos which are all over the place.
ADEM is transmitted by insect bites, particularly mosquitos.
I’m not sure but I think he may be the only such case in the area-Santa Cruz county, CA.
His I.Q. is @170.
So: my friend with a 170 I.Q. is the only one around to get a rare brain disease.
Coincidence?
I don’t mind divulging some personal/family info.
My sister is a “sane” social worker; cold blooded bitch.
She & her husband took my father in the middle of the night without telling me, to get voluntary committment ECT recently.
He is presently quite drugged, pushing vegetable & in either earth orbit, lunar landing or Mars mission.
He is very afraid of them. I am not.
I have no other siblings, unfortunately.
Mother long deceased.
No wife or ex. No children.
My friend in CA/AZ got ADEM, acute disseminating encephalomylitis. Pushing vegetable.
Aaron @73, interesting comment.
Reminds me of a scene in Stalag 17.
Sefton( William Holden), after winning the bet that Manfriedi & Johnson would not successfully escape, gets suspected as a stoolie. But he figures out the real stoolie, Price-the camp Security Chief, is a planted German agent(Peter Graves).
On the morning after the two were shot trying to escape, stoolie says in line, Where’s Sefton?, I want to talk with Sefton. To help the others conclude Sefton is a suspected stoolie. Diverting attention from himself.
Where’s Milnes? Well, here is his address!
paulie, the SCOTUS says I have a Constitutional right!
I did some target practice in the National Forest.
22 magnum revolver,
9mm pistol & rifle-interchangeable ammo,
22 scoped rifle,
30’06 rifle,
410, 12G, 20G shotguns, etc.
George @85, sounds very interesting.
Somebody going to get slapped with a civil action, subpoenae? No confidence vote?
What?
Milnes + firearms? Yikes.
If you recall in my ramblings I have offered to help George in being more like the Teddy Roosevelt he is on the inside as opposed to his nerdy outside. & I have met him in the NJ/PA convention.
I offered to take him to the National Forest & get some sun & fresh air & target practice. & some gold prospecting including hooka diving.
No need to shoot any animals though, unlike TR.
Bring internet access & some pretty interns.
@1 You may also be interested in the outcome of Mr Hinkle and Ms Mattson descending on Oregon for their state convention this weekend. That revolution WILL be televised.
Aaron is being polite rather than some of the other approaches seen above; I was already aware of the facts behind your response.
George, I do not need Aaron’s patronizing.
He assumes depression is (a) a mental illness &(b)able to be helped with medication.
Also he gets a free pass for being “reasonable”.
As I said before, Hitlerwas reasonable too.
My original diagnosis by family physician was “severe reactive depression” In other words, my normal reaction to my surroundings is depression. Change my surroundings to non depression inducing & I’ll be fine.
Hence-revolution seems reasonable to me.
Long ago I decided to try to do without medication mostly due to side effects. But also I do not agree with the premise of treat “mental illness” with medication & everything is fine. That conveniently forgets about the REVOLUTION part, doesn’t it?
@79
kudos to Aaron for being reasonable in this matter.
“management decision” Yehah, right.
When you claim you are making a management decision, and present explanations that are according to Rachel manifestly false — that link presents what appears to be overwhelming evidence — the claim is not going to be salable.
And it’s not going to be sold, either.
The emails in which Rachel repeatedly asked for a copy of the spreadsheet comparing convention sites, and apparently did not receive them so that she could participate in the discussion, are also interesting.
The way the rest of her committee addressed her during one meeting, not by her own name, was also in the end going to be of interest to readers here.
Recalling Angela Keaton, a core question is whether this was more management decisions, including her employer giving her a graceful way out, or whether we have out as it has been put a Libertarian Leadership Lady-Lynching League.
@78 lulz, I think very few comments in this thread actually dealt with the original subject.
So this may be a stretch…babbling about Rachel H’s “purge” just won’t stop…but per your suggestion, I’ll change “purged” to “removed” in the headline.
@77
I can see how that might appear creepy.
I do regret the “tin hat” comment @ 60 (see my follow up comment @61).
Actually, the first person to mention Milnes’ mental illness was Paulie @59. And it appears the consensus here is that Paulie’s conclusion is the correct one.
Reading some of the comments I see made about this guy on other threads, it appears that this man’s mental incapacity just makes him the butt of everyone’s jokes.
I suppose we can take that approach, but it’s completely lacking in compassion. You might as well make fun of someone for having some other physical malady.
Mental illness is a serious condition and it is treatable in many cases. There are people who suffer from depression, who with modern medicine are able to live normal lives.
Perhaps there is someone here who lives close to this man who has enough compassion to see that he gets the help he needs.
Omigod – the babbling about Rachel H’s “purge” just won’t stop. Look, folks, it’s real simple. Rachel was removed from a committee made up of members who are APPOINTED by the national chair of the Libertarian Party – in this case, Mark Hinkle.
Rachel was not”purged” from anything, just removed from an appointed position, by the person who originally appointed her and had the authority to “un-appoint” her. She remains the LNC representative from her region, and nobody is suggesting that she be “purged” from the LNC (as was done to Angela Keaton two years ago.)
It could be argued that Mr. Hinkle could have made a greater effort to reach and confer with Ms. Hawkridge before removing her from the convention oversight committee; indeed, some people are doing just that. But the fact remains that her removal was not a “purge” – just a management decision on the part of Mr. Hinkle.
I think it’s creepy that Aaron wants Robert’s address. Was it just because he didn’t understand Mr. Milnes comment about Barr-Root-Starr?
Aaron, why don’t you politely ask what he meant, or just ignore the comment? You don’t think “mentally ill” is a little strong?
And why throw the “tin hat” insult in there?
# 65 Eric.
Columbus Ohio is vying for 2014 national LP convention. Thank you for the “sh– together” comment.
I think he is a do gooder.
Mr. Starr,
Why are you interested in his address?
Can someone confirm that this is his current address? Does anyone here live near this address?
Robert Milnes
[edited out by request]
Camden, NJ [..]
I am certainly not in the business of providing mental health assistance, in which I am not a competent professional.
Returning to the topic of our thread, tomorrow is the Oregon State Convention, and Rachel will be there if any of you are there and want to commiserate with her. Besides around 40 Oregonites, she will be joined by her husband, long-time member M Carling, and LNC members Mark Hinkle and Alicia Mattson, or so I am advised by their recent candidate for Governor, Wes Wagner. Wes got a bit over 1%, more than the difference between the winning Democrat and the Republican loser.
The State convention will be videotaped and will be up in a few days if not sooner.
Per Mr. Milnes himself, his problem is chronic depression and he’s either under treatment or doesn’t desire it.
His ideas are sometimes bizarre, but generally not more bizarre than those of e.g. Bob Barr, Ron Paul, et. al.
“When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.”
-Mark Twain
http://www.calvoter.org/voter/elections/2008/primary/president/index.html
Lists an address, but I don’t know if it’s current.
Camden, NJ. He’s made references to some family, I don’t remember the specifics.
I have his phone number, if he still has the same one, but I don’t know if he’d want me giving it to anyone else.
I’m not sure if he has ever filed formal campaign paperwork. If he has, that would presumably have his actual address.
@64
Gene, sure, you and I have seen our share of odd ducks over our many decades with this party.
But this guy is seriously in need of help.
Does anyone know what city and state he lives in? Does he have any close relatives who can assist him or is there anyone here with whom he has a personal relationship?
He seems to like and trust George Phillies.
George, have you had any experience helping out someone in Milnes’ condition?
I’m also completely down with having our convention in NH at some point, though I know it’s a horribly inconvenient place for most to travel to.
I haven’t seen the list of cities yet, but I’d like to see a city from one of the state parties that have their shit together be rewarded (Texas, Indiana, Ohio, etc.).
Aaron: I would think by now, considering the years you’ve spent in the LP, you should be used to dealing with those of “alternative” mental functions.
paulie- I don’t think what you are saying is true. Bob has said he takes meds in the past. He may not have them at all times.
He is not interested in getting professional help. He doesn’t consider himself to be mentally ill. However, I do understand that he has in fact been diagnosed and prescribed psychiatric medicine, but he doesn’t think he needs it and does not take it.
I should apologize for my last remark. That was insensitive of me. Mental illness is a serious problem.
I have not paid much attention to this man’s ramblings, but now that I’ve had an opportunity to peruse some of them, it should be evident to most everyone that he is in desperate need of psychological treatment.
Has anyone considered helping this guy find professional help rather than just ridiculing him?
Is there a diplomatic way for me to suggest that his electroshock therapy might be more effective if he first removes his tin foil hat?
Mr. Milnes is mentally ill. He’s not talking about anything on earth. At least, not this earth.
“Barr & Root & Starr et al are spreading your wealth-to the GOP.”
What on Earth is this guy talking about?
Meanwhile, Rachel has been tossed, though she is still our regional representative.
The membership litmus test is signing the pledge and paying your dues. To rise above that level – e.g. delegate, officer, candidate – you must be
selected by your peers, based on your faithfulness to the pledge. your abilities, etc.
Live with it. Make “better” choices.
“Is there any alternative to calling for a resolution? -other than delegates at convention?How about an ad hoc committee of LNC members petitioning Chair? Then vote.”
The LNC can’t change the bylaws, only the convention can.
Seeing as how Democrats & Republicans constantly change what they stand for; your point is invalid.
While, libertarian principles remain consistent.
Barr & Root & Starr et al are spreading your wealth-to the GOP.
Can you imagine the democratic party led by non-democrats? Or the GOP? Or the Tea Party?
They’d get purged in a new yawk minute=Quick.
A dixiecrat conservative or a paleo or a GOP is not a libertarian.
Any more than a commie or Trotskyist or Maoist.
What would you do with them? Help them spread your wealth?
Aside from being all talk, what are you doing about it, Milnes?
“…I agree that the LP should only be led by libertarians, …”
Well, it isn’t & that’s the problem & what are you doing about it, peacenik?
I didn’t say a purge would be simple or easy.
Have any of you served on a jury?
It is not simple or easy. & it is serious & necessary. Rights & judgement calls are not easy.
Is there any alternative to calling for a resolution? -other than delegates at convention?How about an ad hoc committee of LNC members petitioning Chair? Then vote.
paulie, you told me quite some time ago about the enter key. I use it sometimes.
There! now, I tend to post short multiples for several reasons. I’m having problems with keyboard for one.
Writethe thought & submit before it gets lost.
Peacenik, you think The Pauls, counterrevolutionaries, are going to deliver peace to you?
You people call yourselves radicals?
Grey friendly.
Do the Greys have to show their papers at the spaceport?
What’s not to like?
Too damn far for those of us who are not out west and don’t fly.
I purge your purges and raise you a purge.
Enough purge, time to splurge!
I prefer Palm Springs.
Very low cost Hotels and Convention Space.
A City desperate for business.
A City that has been destroyed by Socialism.
Casinos, great entertainment, good food in all price ranges.
Gay friendly.
Grey friendly.
420 friendly.
Commercial Airport and public transit.
What’s not to like?
I purge your purges and raise you a purge.
Were the other members of the Committee solicited on whether or not they felt Hawkbridge was participating enough to remain on the Committee? There are ways to do these things that are equitable and/or give the LNC Chair cover. Way back in 1989, Matt Monroe was “purged” as chair of the membership committee, but only after a solid majority of the LNC petitioned that it be done. The “purge” subsequently was upheld by the convention delegates when Monroe failed to win the Chair’s race.
Four brief posts in a row!
The reason he does that is that he doesn’t know how to make paragraph breaks (hit the enter key twice, not once, to make a paragraph break, Milnes).
The People’s Front for Judea Pear Review Board at work
How about the apple review board? And can they review oranges? Orange you glad I didn’t say banana?
I can see that the proles still can’t post images or embed videos
I’ve looked, and I don’t see a way to fix that. Would you like to become an IPR reporter?
Wow, Milnes is rubbing off on me!
You should take a shower immediately.
Wow, Milnes is rubbing off on me! Four brief posts in a row!
Mind you, I agree that the LP should only be led by libertarians, but as others have said, that’s the point of conventions.
I can see that the proles still can’t post images or embed videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
The People’s Front for Judea Pear Review Board at work:
Sounds like a circular firing squad.
“I purge you!”
“Oh yeah? Well I purge you!”
“I purge both of you”
“We both purge you right back”
“You can’t purge me, I’m purging myself!”
Milnes, my Libertarian Peer Review Board says that your Libertarian Peer Review Board is not comprised of true libertarians.
Thus, my Libertarian Peer Review Board hereby purges your Libertarian Peer Review Board from the LP.
At msnbc they were laughing at various tea party candidates. & angry at them & apprehensive.
The Dysfunctional Libertarian Party.
Yes, that would be interesting. Paul facing the judgement of a Peer Review Board.
We know the judgement of the Tom, George & Bob Board.
Sipos, didn’t the debacle of Rand’s election do anything for you?
Milnes: “A Peer Review Board would have to be created. Definitions & descriptions of various libertarian schools of thought. Interviews of current & potential party officials & candidates. A comparable precedent-a jury of one’s peers-6th Amendment.”
It’s already been done. The result is called the Libertarian Party.
Don’t see why doing it all over again would yield a different result.
BTW, I nominate Ron Paul for Milnes’s LP Peer Review Board. Most active Libertarians would support Paul.
Then Milnes would start crying for a Super-Peer Review Board to oversea the Regular Peer Review Board.
who establishes the review board?
What if someone that isn’t pure libertarian gets on that board?
How are vacancies on the board decided?
DWP @14, yes, Tom & I have argued this.
A Peer Review Board would have to be created.
Definitions & descriptions of various libertarian schools of thought.
Interviews of current & potential party officials & candidates.
A comparable precedent-a jury of one’s peers-6th Amendment.
Clearly an imperfect situation but workable.
Perhaps judgement by consensus.
basis.Yes, I signed.
For one thing, many programs could be tried on a voluntary, experimental
You signed the non-initiation of force pledge? What does that mean to you?
How about a sort of hybrid location? Centrally located-@Kansas Heartland+ heavy use of internet-live streaming, conferencing etc.
Or Washington + internet.
paulie, yes I am or have been a member of LP, GP& BTP.
@22 Of course, that assumes that he actually joined the LP at some point. I have no knowledge of that one way or the other.
Kansas City will soon be the “megaport” for the NAFTA superhighway…
Besides which, there?s absolutely no chance you?d last 90 seconds in a ?purge of non-libertarians.?
Luckily, Milnes has already shown the way by purging himself:
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/05/milnes-leaves-the-lp/
The emphasis should be on getting a big turnout and to do that costs are the biggest factors.
Folks need to remember that the press likes big numbers
When you say “geographic center” – I guess you’re not including the far reaching extents of the American Empire being protected by the military…
No, I specifically said lower 48, as anyone else is unlikely to be driving/busing in….and, if they do drive/bus from Alaska, they obviously don’t mind going long distances.
See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_center_of_U.S._population
Who would administer this litmus test you propose?
It’s a recursive/infinite loop…
Kansas City, MO. It is in the center and is easy for people from both coast to get to.
When you say “geographic center” – I guess you’re not including the far reaching extents of the American Empire being protected by the military…
Bob,
How many times do we have to go over this?
The body that would have to pass a bylaw or declaration (actually, resolution) , or achieve the consensus you’re asking for, is the same body that decided to elect the people you oppose (not to mention yet another LNC majority more interested in playing catch-me-fuck-me games than in attending to the genuine business of a political party’s national committee).
If the body in question (the delegates in convention) didn’t do that, there would be no need for your “purge.” Since they won’t, there’s no chance of your “purge.”
Besides which, there’s absolutely no chance you’d last 90 seconds in a “purge of non-libertarians.”
How about Four Corners Monument OR The Center of the World in Felicity, CA (8 miles from Yuma, AZ)???
As close as possible to the geographic and/or mean population center of the 48 contiguous states, with a big enough airport for those who still fly commercial and a big enough venue for the crowd, works best for me and IMO for the best interests of the party as a whole.
St. Louis was pretty ideal from that perspective, and Dallas would be pretty good as well.
Also, symbolism…
St. Louis as StL YAF 1969 +40 (well, plus 39, but anyway…) That worked well.
Dallas, Dallas of the Dallas Accord convention (’73 IIR my reading C) plus almost 40…
Then maybe Baltimore ’14, 200th anniversary of the “rockets red glare.”
Robert, I know you’ve been asked a hundred times – though I’m not sure you’ve ever answered – Who would administer this litmus test you propose?
A simple bylaw, declaration or consensus such that LP party officials and candidates must be genuine libertarians is all that wo uld be needed for a purge. That would eliminate Root & Starr et al.
The LP’s wherewithall would go to genuine libertarians, not, for example to The Pauls-counterrevolutionaries. & its ballot access would go to a ticket that might make a positive difference, i.e. not Root.
How about Four Corners Monument OR The Center of the World in Felicity, CA (8 miles from Yuma, AZ)???
As long as the LP is dominated by rightists, it doesn’t really matter much what it does or where.
@8
Yeah, I don’t think Whitehorse, Dawson, or anywhere else in the Yukon is on the list of cities being considered for the 2012 convention.
For that matter, neither is beautiful downtown Camden, NJ.
It’s Not final Paulie. We simply wanted to review all the choices before we made a fair decision.
Fortunately what I hope to do is not reliant on what the LP does.
A reader of the official LNC list would conclude that the decision has been postponed to the next LNC meeting.
Thanks, hopefully Dallas won’t get voted down again…I read that as being final.
This is way too much nonsese from rightists.
Purge, baby, Purge.
@1
Being in error about who was on phone calls on which logs are available is a bit odd.
Perhaps you could give your impression about what the LNC had noticed about all this.
A reader of the official LNC list would conclude that the decision has been postponed to the next LNC meeting.
I’m disappointed to read Dallas got voted down. Did I understand that San Francisco was chosen? I’m tired, so I may not have read that correctly.
From my perspective San Francisco is even worse than Las Vegas…I don’t fly, so chances are better than even that it will be a long distance from where I’ll be. I may (that’s may) also have a problem with going to California that I won’t get into. Ah, well, I was seriously considering skipping it already anyway.
I’m sorry to see the shennanigans that ate up so much LNC time last term continue. I was really hoping that after St Louis the message of the delegates was clear to the LNC that we wanted people to work together productively and stop being petty and divisive.
The full story will be in the next issue of Liberty for America magazine, out this weekend.
Loved the threats from Hinkle based on erroneous info. Quite a statesman. 🙁