Joshua Fauver: Don Grundmann: “Sodomites” are “sub-human”

The following was published on the Independent American & Constitutional Review (IA&CR) on June 16, 2013. IA&CR, a new website founded in June, is dedicated to covering right-wing and constitutionalist third parties in the United States as well as providing opinion and analysis from them and about them. 

Don Grundman: Sodomites are “sub-human”

by Joshua Fauver

The following will be a compilation of posts from one Don Grundman, the founder and former state chairman of the Constitution Party of California as well as it’s current state contact. (as listed on the national party’s website.)

On the piece published by the Independent Political Report, titled Constitution Party Issues Statement on Religious Liberty and Boy Scouts Mr. Grundman had the following to say:

 “….    I actually represent the majority of history and civilization throughout time up until this moment when a new sub-human species, spawned by and in allegiance to The Enemy of God, has emerged which will actually sacrifice the children of our nation and the world as a whole to sodomites.”

Incredible isn’t it?  How does one suggest with any real confidence that those who are of a different sexual orientation than them are somehow a, and I quote, “sub-human species.” But Grundman didn’t stop there, he went on to suggest that they exist only to “sacrifice the children of our nation and the world as a whole to the sodomites” How absurd! Where does one get off by saying that the homosexuals in this country are out to get our children and to have them sacrificed. There is absolutely no basis  for such hideous, inflammatory, and bigoted remarks. It doesn’t matter what your personal religious beliefs are, there is no basis for suggesting that simply because of someone’s sexual orientation that they are “sub-human” I’m appalled by Mr. Grundman’s claim.

Mr. Grundman’s bold, baseless, and ridiculous claims didn’t stop there. He had to go on to suggest that anyone who 1.) Advocates for marriage equality, 2.) suggesst that the tenth amendment should apply to marriage and it be left up for the individual states to decide on, are “moral mutants.” who believe that our children should be taught to be homosexuals. He said:

“It is only in our time that moral mutants like yourself have openly worked to advance the pathology of homosexuality and especially the once unthinkable idea that homosexuality should be taught to children…”

I find this to be a bit absurd. First of all, when did Don Grundman become the judge of all of mankind? Last I checked God was still seated on the throne, and it was He who would be doing the judging. I don’t remember the standard to which I would be held being Don Grundman’s standard of morality. Who is Don to suggest that those who are of a different opinion of him are “moral mutants”? Secondly, where does Don Grundman base his claims that because some in our society feel, and perhaps rightfully so, that they should be free to be with who they choose to be with want to teach our children to be gay? There is absolutely zero basis for such a strong accusation. that the above quoted “unthinkable idea” is ” something which only monsters such as yourself, …, and all too many other degenerates of our time will endorse” I find it a shame to see such immature name calling being found constantly among the leadership in the Constitution Party ranks.

Don Grundman went on to suggest that those who are homosexual aren’t really fighting to have marriage equality. Their goal isn’t to have their relationships legitimatized and legally recognized  as they say they are doing. No, in fact their ultimate goal is to be able to legally molest children.

” You do such an excellent job of presenting all of the arguments which the child molestors will use in the next phase of the attack upon the nation by the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement after pervert marriage is legalized.”

I honestly don’t even know what to say about this. I guess my question is when did homosexual become synonymous with child molester?  On what grounds does he suggest those who have a homosexual relationship are by extension pedophiles? Why is it that this Don Grundman continues to make claims with absolutely zero evidence or basis in reality?

I’ve documented here for you the behavior and opinions of those in leadership positions of the Constitution Party.Whether it be our example here, Don Grundman, (founder and former state chairman of the California affiliate of the Constitution Party.) or Riley Hood (Chairman of the Constitution Party of Wisconsin, or even Don Stone of the Constitution Party of Illinois, those who are in this party have a now well documented reputation of, under the name of Christianity, using derogatory words, statements, phrases, and comparisons to bash those who live a life style that is contrary to their beliefs. Let me be clear, I am a devout follower of Christ, and it is by my daily reading in the word of God that I see that Jesus’ behavior at no time ever looked like that of Don Grundman. At no point is Jesus found bashing sinners and condemning them and calling them insulting names. On the contrary, Christ embodied love and compassion.

Let’s observe for just one moment a passage from the Bible found in the book of John, chapter 8 versus 1-11

But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the courtthey *said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, theybegan to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]

Let us ask ourselves, would Jesus have acted any differently had they thrown a homosexual man before him instead of an adulterous woman? Certainly not. Now let’s compare Jesus’ behavior to that of Don Grundman’s and company? Does the above examples of Don Grundman’s behavior remind you of Jesus? I feel it only right to remind Don that the word christian means “Christ like.” Sir your behavior is in no way, shape, or form like that of Christ.

Don Grundman, I only ask that if you’re going to call yourself a “Christian” then act like Christ, and if you’re going to call yourself a Constitutionalists, then know and support the Constitution.

Source:

http://iacreview.blogspot.com/2013/06/don-grundman-sodomites-are-sub-human.html

130 thoughts on “Joshua Fauver: Don Grundmann: “Sodomites” are “sub-human”

  1. Krzysztof Lesiak Post author

    In anticipation of criticism that I will likely get for publishing this, I’m going to outline my reasons for doing so:

    1. Josh did a great job with this column, and I will publish his future articles.

    2. Grundman, along with several other CP activists, really delegitimizes their entire party, which is the idea behind posting this negative stuff. I would like to see the CP weakened to the point of not being able to achieve ballot access in more than ten states in 2016 and hopefully just dissolving/disbanding altogether by then or before that. The Independent American Party (IAP) should be commended, because it will likely expediate the process of sending the CP to the dustbins of American political history.

  2. Krzysztof Lesiak Post author

    With so many skeletons in the CP’s closets, the constitutionalist right-wing should burn all the old bridges and just start fresh, from scratch. That’s why Cody Quirk’s Clarion Call to Unite Committee (CCTUC) is a great idea.

  3. Andy

    Question for Don Grundmann: Do you favor arresting people who engage in voluntary homosexual relationships?

  4. Ad Hoc

    Most “sodomy” is heterosexual and includes many or most heterosexual relationships. Some definitions of sodomy include oral sex, which would mean the vast majority of heterosexual relationships as well, and even if it only means anal sex it still includes a very large percentage of straight couples.

  5. Thomas L. Knapp

    KL,

    If your reasons for posting this stuff are what you say they are, you should be doing it.

    The purpose of IPR is not to advance your agenda of “see[ing] the CP weakened to the point of not being able to achieve ballot access in more than ten states in 2016 and hopefully just dissolving/disbanding altogether by then or before that.”

    The purpose of IPR is to inform people concerning developments in independent and third party politics.

    The two purposes might or might not be compatible, but only the latter is a legitimate reason to post.

  6. Peter Gemma

    He can claim he’s the Pope for that matter. He’s claimed/claims to be the CA AIP chair, yadda yadda … Who cares? He’s a nut and proved it here 6,312 times.

  7. Cody Quirk

    Yet he’s still listed as the CP’s guy for California, both on the SoS’s website, and again on the CP’s website.

    Plus the CP has done a very poor job of restraining, or at least distancing itself, from him and his behavior.

  8. Ad Hoc

    “If your reasons for posting this stuff are what you say they are, you should be doing it.”

    From context, it appears you meant should not.

    “Yet he’s still listed as the CP’s guy for California, both on the SoS’s website, and again on the CP’s website.

    True: http://www.constitutionparty.com/GetInvolved/StateParties/tabid/132/Default.aspx

    What’s up with that?

    Unlike “Grundmann is a wackjob” that could actually be a real story. Why would they list him again after replacing him earlier?

  9. Jill Pyeatt

    I think this was worthwhile to post because I think Grundmann’s unrestrained hateful tirades have hurt IPR. This article does a good job of pointing out that his words aren’t backed by Scripture, which I tried to point out but gave up when it was obvious I wasn’t getting anywhere.

  10. Jared King

    I actually sort of, in a weird way, like the Constitution Party. The same way I sort of, in a weird way, like the Green Party. I certainly disagree with both on a lot, but they’re third party allies and as the Greens represent the true left, the CP represents the true conservative movement.

    I also like a lot of stuff written by Chuck Baldwin, and I occasionally enjoy reading the Conservative Heritage Times. I certainly disagree with conservatives on social issues, immigration, and trade, but I view most as basically allies.

    But I don’t know why folks like Grundman and Riley Hood get so hung up on the ‘sod’s’. And then antagonize libertarians.

  11. Steven Wilson

    I must say if the writers of IPR are going to use publishing items here as a means of outcomes beyond just informing, like personally wanting a party to disappear, then IPR might need to change the agenda a little especially by removing the words “news” or “report” from anything on here.

    Hidden agenda may peak on through, but I don’t think it should be this overt.

  12. Jill Pyeatt

    So, now IPR writers want to make certain parties disappear? I guess I missed that.

  13. NewFederalist

    I believe the entire Grundmann saga should just be given a rest. This does nothing to advance the legitamacy of IPR in the slightest. I would not blame Warren if he pulled this entire thread down.

  14. Deran

    I also think Grundmann is a scary fellow, but I also think that since he has no position in any political party, and he is not a candidate for office, any further Grundmann talk is warranted. In my opinion I would not be opposed to banning him if he get’s off on to another threatening and sexualized rant.

  15. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    So many sub-humans and so little time –

    Well I start with the author, Fauver, whom the wimp KL extolled for doing a ” great job.”

    Fauver – Not that you will ever give damn, but as an enemy of the CP ( and actually humanity as a whole ) you could at least learn to READ.

    Because if you READ the quote which you used you would see that I did not call the sodomites ” sub-human.” I refer to YOU as sub-human – which is exactly what you are.

    You see Fauver – men and women would and will NEVER sacrifice/betray children to the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement. YOU – as a male ( an inferior/soul infected feminized man – a ” feman ” ) – WILL.

    In fact you and your fellow males/femen; inclusive of Quirk/Twerp and KL; will create an entire website with the dream of pressuring the CP to give up its moral foundations, which you despise, or ( in your dream ) be destroyed.

    And to imagine – you wimps actually claimed to support or be members of the CP only a few months ago.

    Now you come out with your TRUE objective – to get the CP to bow its knee before your own Master – The Enemy of God.

    Well Divine Intervention has exposed you all for the utterly corrupt sub-humans that you are. For indeed you ARE a new sub-species of humanity in that in past times no citizen, except the sickest Communist or similar rodent, would support the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement in any way. ONLY the sickest members of society would do so.

    Fast forward to today and endless number of moral rodents; Socially Engineered to be the best drones, undead zombies, and lovers of The Enemy of God that they can be; now climb over each other to support the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement in ANYTHING that it wants – inclusive of teaching homosexuality to school children including kindergarteners. And they do this to protect what is MOST important to them in their existence ( not life ) – their ” image ” that they are ” tolerant ” or any similar lie.

    No REAL man or woman would EVER support such EVIL but males ( like you ) and females ( like Jill P. ) WILL not only support such evil but enthusiastically so.

    And Fauver – at CandleCrusade.org I have tons of evidence to show that the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement is targeting/attacking children. You, as a fool and a male, simply ignore any and all facts which oppose your personal evil. Your whole article was filled with lies defending the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement. But what can one ever expect from a wimp/weakling/coward/liar/feman like you? You have simply ” come out of the closet ” as the moral rodent which you are.

    And relevant to this – The very idea that YOU are a ” Christian ” is a sick joke.

    Christianity is founded on the death of Christ being used as an atonement for and the salvation ( saving from sin ) of man.

    You not only support the sinner to revel and pig out in their sin but you additionally work to deny them the ability to repent of their sin via your endorsement for and support of their evil – something only The Enemy of God and Its demons/supporters/lovers would/will do.

    Bottom Line – You are an anti-Christian; i.e.; a fake ( and a total one at that ).

    Thank God for His Divine Intervention to expose you and your fellow rats KL and Quirk/Twerp of being the enemies of the CP, and indeed the nation, which you truly are.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. sub-humans to the right of me, sub-humans to the left of me, sub-humans behind and ahead, I, as a Soul Warrior ( and blessed by my Creator to be so ), ride into the Valley of The Undead to, in service to my Creator, defeat The Enemies of God, our nation, and humanity as a whole

  16. Joshua Fauver

    So what I’ve learned is that the only difference between the Westboro Baptist church and the Constitution Party their websites domain name.

  17. William Saturn

    I deleted a vile accusation from Dr. Jimmy Rustles. It can be read in the Trash bin.

  18. paulie

    I deleted a vile accusation from Dr. Jimmy Rustles. It can be read in the Trash bin.

    Trash bin appears to be empty.

  19. paulie

    but I also think that since he has no position in any political party

    He is listed by California SOS and the national CP as the California CP contact/chair.

  20. paulie

    I believe the entire Grundmann saga should just be given a rest.

    I would not mind if it was given a rest, but I’m tired of being accused of being a dictator. Let me make it crystal clear that i am not issuing any order.

  21. Deran

    I completely understand you not wanting to be further accused of authoritarian tendencies, paulie. And I retract my previous comment abt Mr. Grundmann holding no office in any political party.

  22. William Saturn

    @26

    Jill Pyeatt changed the comment status to approved.

    I have deleted it again, and placed it back in the trash bin. If someone else believes it is acceptable to claim without evidence that someone else was molested as a child, then by all means restore it and IPR can face the legal ramifications.

  23. Jill Pyeatt

    ws @ 32: Yet, you keep Don Grundmann’s comment up, where he calls all kind of people all kinds of names, with no evidence? It doesn’t make sense to me, William.

  24. Jill Pyeatt

    WS: I really am confused. You were the only writer, I believe, who said you didn’t think we should censor anyone, and I’ve tried not to since then, although I’d prefer to delete everything Grundmann says. How in the world was Dr. Jimmy Rustle’s comment worse than Grundmann’s? Grundmann contributes nothing ever except for hateful, untrue condemnations of just about everyone on IPR. Is this really okay with you? Yet Dr. Rustles’ comment offended you. Wow. Very telling, actually.

    I’d really like to hear from other people, including Paulie and Krzysztof, because I’m truly baffled.

  25. William Saturn

    Factual allegations are much different than opinions. I do not believe any opinions should be deleted, but false factual allegations should not be allowed to remain.

  26. paulie

    Jill,

    A statement of fact that someone was allegedly molested, without evidence, can be considered libel. Someone could speculate that it is likely that he was molested, or may have been molested, or acts like he was molested, etc. That’s different.

    It’s true that Grundmann makes all kind of accusations, but they are more in the realm of name calling (“rodents, wimps, weasels, blah blah blah”) than statements of alleged fact (so and so is a homosexual, so and so has AIDS, so and so is a child molestor, so and so is a transvestite/transsexual, etc).

    I can understand both of your points of view on this and I don’t like making these calls.

  27. Thomas L. Knapp

    JPO @ 34,

    Grundmann has insanity (or, if the Bible is true, quite possibly demonic possession) at his disposal as a defense to allegations of libel.

    You don’t.

  28. Richard Winger

    All those comments about Don Grundmann being listed on the California Secretary of State’s web page as the state chair of the Constitution Party are misleading. The California secretary of state’s office has a terrible habit of not recognizing when a political body (or a political party for that matter) changes is state chair. She does the same thing to the Reform Party, which is California’s biggest political body. Even though the group has chosen Rodney Martin as the state chair, she continues to list John Blare, just because John Blare (as well as Rodney Martin) had filed the letter to continue the group’s political body status. The Secretary of State even made the same unjust error in 2008, when she recognized the AIP (a ballot-qualified party) faction that included the outgoing state chair, and ignored the larger of the two state convention of the AIP, the one with the most members of the State Central Committee.

  29. paulie

    The bigger issue is why the CP went back to listing him as the state contact on their site after previously taking him off the site. More so than SOS, as you correctly point out.

  30. Joshua Fauver

    Don, I don’t even know where to begin. Lets start with your claim that only a sick person would support the homosexual movement. I DO NOT “support” the homosexual movement. I believe the TENTH AMENDMENT should be enforce. (That can be found in our founding document, which is known as the CONSTITUTION. You know, that old document your party is named after) You see the Constitution list every single bit of authority our federal government has, and it never once says anything about defining marriage, but the TENTH AMENDMENT reads “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” So I believe we should let states decide what they will recognize as marriage in their own states. If that is in your warped and twisted mind supporting the homosexual movement, then your problem lies with our founders and the Constitution, not with me.

    Secondly, lets address your claim about some stupid little website and its “proof” that homosexuals are targeting and attacking children. Sir I can do a really brief search on Google and show you tons upon tons of evidence where heterosexuals have targeted and molested children. Does that then prove the heterosexual movement has an unknown agenda to legalize the molestation of children? Certainly not. Your logic is flawed sir. Judging on particular groups upon the actions of a few leads to radical misconceptions. It would be like assuming all Christians are just like those members of the Westboro baptist church. (Though you are certainly helping promote that MAJOR misconception)

    Lastly lets address your ignorant, unfounded, stupid, immature, and incendiary claim that I am not a real christian or am somehow anti-christian. Let me first say that you must obviously not know Christ. Christ is love. (1st John 4:8) And nothing you have posted on here has almost reflected that truth at all. I see also that you didn’t even address the scripture I posted in the above found article. Why is that? Is it perhaps that it doesn’t support (in fact it would rebuke) your intolerable and un-Christ like behavior? You see for someone who claims to be so Christian and holy and righteous, your behavior is in no way synonymous with that of the Christ you claim to worship. (feel free to scroll back up and read the passage about Jesus and the adulterous woman one more time and compare his behavior and yours.) In fact, lets just look at what love is Don, since God is love. (1st Corinthians 13) “Love is is paitient. Love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud, it does not dishonor others, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered….” Don I don’t think any of your behavior fits into that category, quite the contrary honestly. So let me point you in the direction of another piece of scripture (Luke 6:42) “How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” So Don I say all that to say this, how dare you approach me about my faith, about my beliefs, about my relationship with God when you yourself fall so short? Who are you to come at me (as well as KL, Cody Quirk, Jill Pyeatt and others) when yourself don’t even come close to resembling the Christ you are supposedly modeling your life after? Perhaps it would be wise to sort out your own moral short fallings before preaching at (BASHING) others.

  31. paulie

    Josh @42

    I believe the applicable part of the 10th here is the people, not the states. IE: marriage is a right of the people.

    Your other two paragraphs are right on the money.

  32. Peter Gemma

    @ 39 – as usual, thanks again Richard for being the source of fact on this stuff … the Sec’y of State info re: CP is not correct. As far as Grundmann being listed on the CP site, all I can say is the entire CP website is being scrapped and replaced by a new one: many items that should be there are not, some items that have long been there and should be corrected/removed are still posted, etc. The actual CA Constitution Party chairman is
    Nathan Johnson of San Diego – njohnso2@san.it.com

    Somewhere here on IPR there is a report of the establishment of a CA CP via an election; Don Grundmann was there and CP Nat’l Chair Frank Fluckiger was as well. Richard Winger was the featured speaker. Grundmann switched recently from his long-time whine about being the rightful CA AIP chair to becoming the CA CP’s albatross. Maybe he’s claiming to be head of both parties.

    Frank wrote Grundmann a letter asking him to cease his claim to be CA CP chair … that’s here someplace too.

  33. paulie

    Yep, I remember those articles, but what’s weird is that they switched back to listing Grundmann after taking him off of there, not that they haven’t updated the list. Might be worth checking into.

  34. Krzysztof Lesiak Post author

    Dr. Jimmy Rustle’s comment: I have no idea if it should stay unpublished or not. Warren is a lawyer. I wonder if he could provide some insight on what is appropriate, in terms of legality, and what is libel and what is not?

  35. Mark Seidenberg

    comments to posts #39 and #45.

    Richard Winger,

    I was the Chairman of the only convention of the
    American Independent Party of California , located at the auditorium of the Secretary of State Building in Sacramento, CA in 2008.

    I was also in the hotel where the meeting took
    place of some AIPer’s showed up in Los Angeles.
    CA in 2008.

    The Los Angeles body was not a convention because under the California Elections Code
    conventions of the American Independent Party
    of California can only take place in Sacramento
    County.

    Chairman Ed Noonan made the Convention Call
    as required by law (California Elections Code) in
    the same Sacramento County Community as the
    meeting of State Central Committee of AIP that
    first weekend in July, 2008.

    The Los Angeles meeting of June, 2008 was called to order by Ann Thomas, who was not
    a member of the State Central Committee or a
    quilfied delegate to a state convention. I was asked by Ann Thomas to come in and join the
    group meeting in Los Angeles (LAX area hotel)
    and call the meeting to order, because I was
    the Vice Chairman of the American Independent
    Party since Chairman Ed Noonan was not
    present. I refused because that meeting was in
    Los Angeles and conventions of AIP can take place only in Sacramento County, California.

    Richard Winger, should know the above because
    he claims to be an election law expert.

    Dr. Don Grundmann was a delegate to the 2008
    Convention of the American Independent Party of California in Sacramento in July, 2008. He
    walked out of the convention, so the delegates
    were able to give a 100% vote for the ticket of
    Dr. Alan Keyes/Dr Wiley Drake for POTUS/VPOTUS. Dr. Don Grundmann could not find one delegate to either place his name in
    nomination (or in the alternative second his nomination of POTUS), therefore, he walked out
    of the convention as a seated delegate.

    The last date that Dr. Don Grundmann was a member of the State Central Committee of the
    AIP was September 2, 2008. He was removed
    as an area director early in 2008, by then state
    chairman, Ed Noonan. He was replaced in 2008
    as a County Chairman by Patrick Colglazier.

    Therefore, as of September 3, 2008, the American Independent Party of California was
    finished with Dr. Don Grundmann.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party of California

  36. Mark Seidenberg

    Richard Winger post 39.

    There are three election laws that the American Independent Party must follow. Debra Bowen
    followed them in 2008.

    Election Code section 7570 which states: “The State Convention shall meet biennially, at a
    location designated by the state central committee, at 10am on a Saturday following the
    direct primary election, but in no event later than August 15

    Election Code section 7608 states: “Each delegate to the State Convention shall send a notice by mail to each person whom he or she has appointed as a member of the committee, that will inform him or her that:
    (b) The committee will meet in Sacramento and
    date of the meeting”.

    `Election Code Section 7620 states: “The committee shall convene in the same community where the State Convention is held, at 10 a.m. on the Sunday following the State Convention”.

    Sacramento City is not divided into communities,
    but Sacramento County is divided into communities, viz. 25 total.

    These are the communities of Sacramento County.

    1) Antelope
    2) Arden Archade
    3) Carmichael
    4) Citrus Heights
    5) Consumnes
    6) Delta
    7) Downtown Sacramento
    8) East City
    9) Elk Grove
    10) Fair Oaks
    11) Folsom Area
    12) Franklin/Laguna
    13) Galt
    14) Land Park/Pocket/Meadowview
    15) North Highlands/Foothill Farms
    16) North Natomes
    17) North Sacramento
    18) Orangevale
    19) Rancho Cordova
    20) Rancho Murieta
    21) Rancho Linda/Elverta
    22) South Natomes
    23) South Sacramento
    24) Southeast Sacramento
    25) Vineyard

    Richard Winger, Now please explain to the readers how a convention for the AIP can take
    place outside of Sacramento County, without violating the election code and also how a non-delegate to a convention can call a convention to
    order?

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party of California

  37. Mark Seidenberg

    Peter Gemma at post 45

    Wow! Frank Fluckiger wrote Dr. Don Grundmann and told Don Grundmann that
    Nathan Johnson is the state chairman. So what,
    Debra Bowen does not take direction from Frank
    Fluckiger, Don Grundmann has Debra Bowen ear not Frank Fluckiger. As far as the Constitution Party is concerned in California, Don Grundmann has control, not Frank Fluckiger or Nathan Johnson.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party of California

  38. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    Fauver – An excellent comment which I have heard is that ” Satan knows the Scriptures.” And indeed ” It ” does, as do Its’ followers, inclusive of yourself.

    I say this because ” love ” is NOT acceptance.

    Your father ” loves ” you by chastising you – Don’t do this, Don’t do that. Don’t run out into the street.

    His expression of ” love ” is to challenge and stop your foolishness and, beyond that, your evil.

    A major goal and achievement of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement is to Socially Engineer the populace, obviously including you, to not resist their attack upon our society, culture, and nation. Hence ANY opposition is termed as ” hate,” and any opponent is labeled with the Social Engineering term of being ” homophobic;” a non-existent condition which springs from the bowels of Social Engineering.

    The objective of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement is to sterilize ANY opposition to them from the cultural. social, and national landscape; inclusive of all political parties.

    Since the CP is the last party standing which promotes Christianity and Christian principles it is automatically n the cross-hairs of the enemies of the nation and has been so for many years.

    Hence drones like yourself ( a ” Republican ” RINO ), Jill P., and endless other fly out from your boxes every day to do the bidding of your Master – to end any and all opposition to the evil of homosexuality ( the feminization and collapse of the men of the nation ) in our nation. You hide behind the 10th Amendment, the Constitution, a claim of being ” Christian,” yada, yada, yada. All of this is your fake smoke screen to cover and sanitize your personal corruption and support of evil.

    It is Social Engineering which takes advantage of your character weakness to produce a drone that will endlessly defend the goals of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement while proclaiming yourself to be Christian. As I said, by this action you work to deny those afflicted by homosexuality the ability to repent of their pathology and be healed by the only power which can heal them – The Creator. THAT is what makes you, Jill P., and any other similar liar an anti-Christian – your promotion/defense of the pathology and your work to deny healing to those afflicted.

    The reason that our nation is collapsing is because Christianity is collapsing. Churches are mere social clubs which are far more interested in ” prosperity gospels ” than bringing the world to Christ – an attack which MUST include ” REPENTANCE FOR SIN if it is to occur.

    This becomes a political issue when outright evil is formed into a political attack upon the nation – which is just what the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement is doing right now; and this with your help as a Republican Party RINO who, like Seidenberg and Robinson, is dedicated to destroying the CP.

    Christ took a whip and drove the money changers out of the temple. He declared that he was not here to bring peace but a sword. Christianity, the real type and not our pro-sin/evil type, is not for wusses/wimps like yourself. REAL Christianity stands up to evil, does not ( ever ) bow down to it, and NEVER EVER supports it like you do.

    REAL Christianity supports people in returning to God/Christ by the ONLY WAY POSSIBLE – THEIR PERSONAL REPENTANCE.

    It does not defend evil as you do. It does not support evil – as Jill P. does with her attack upon the Boy Scouts.

    Love – REAL Christian love – challenges and defeats evil. That is what REAL men and REAL women do. REAL men and women do not, EVER, support, defend, endorse, and promote evil – such as you and your friends do.

    Lastly –

    98% of the population is heterosexual. 2% is homosexual. NUMERICALLY the heterosexual populace outnumbers the homosexual populace is regard to child molestations. BY PERCENTAGE OF POPULATION the homosexual populace far out numbers the heterosexual populace regarding child molestations.

    ONLY the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement/populace has ” Pride Parades;” i.e.; what their community is PROUD of; that has child molestors marching in their parade.

    NO OTHER CULTURE has such occurances.

    My website simply documents their actions and shows their ultimate objective. Hence it is understandable that as a wuss/wimp you will ( just like Jill P. ) ignore any evidence to the contrary of your support of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement. That is what males do. That is what females do. Men and women never do such actions.

    At this moment the CP is the last party standing against the monstrous evil which you, Jill P., and so many others are promoting. In truth it will probably fall under the onslaught of evil; i.e.; it will be politically castrated just as you are spiritually castrated; i.e; it will be ” chickified ” ( a Limbaugh term ) just like yourself.

    Such will be part of the sad fate of our nation as the men of the nation pass on and are replaced by wimps who have not the slightest clue of what it means to be a man especially as they are so busy licking the bottom of their Masters shoes.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. a chronicler of the death of men and the rise of males/wimps

  39. Mark Seidenberg

    My intel is that the split between Nathan Johnson and Don Grundmann the registration
    of the Constitution Party in California has gone
    done below the 304 registered electors in California.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

  40. Joshua Fauver

    Mr. Grundmann your comment only further proves what I have said. You cannot and will not have a civilized debate. Christ never ever went around calling people “wimps, wusses, weasels, twerps” or any other insulting demeaning name like you constantly do. Again Grundmann, Christian means “Christ-like” and your behavior and demeanor are in no way similar to that of Christs’.

    I love how you refuse to actually acknowledge the scriptures I’ve used and pretend they are of know meaning simply because I have used them and just respond with “even Satan knows the scripture. That is truly childish and proof of your very scriptural behavior.

    I have never once condoned the behavior or sin of homosexuals. Do I believe it is a sin? Yes I do. Do I believe it will be punished come judgement day? Yes, I do. But I acknowledge that God has given man free will, and it is man’s decision whether they will live in sin or not. It is no more my right to decide how they can live than it is their right to decide if my money will pay for their healthcare. I do not hide behind the tenth amendment. It is the law of our land and it is in the document that your party has named itself after and “claims” to promote. You do not get to say “oh woah that is unconstitutional we can’t have it” when you don’t want it, and then allow unconstitutional government when you agree with what it’s doing. THAT IS HYPOCRISY!

    Again, how dare you call me a fake Christian! How dare you claim I and others are anti-christian. Don Grundmann inform me, when did God step away from the seat of judgement and say “Don Grundmann come and sit down and judge the world, you are holier than they are”? Does your “holier than thou art” self righteous attitude know no bounds?

    Let me give you some extra scriptures Grundmann,
    Matthew 7:1 – Judge not, that ye be not judged.

    Luke 6:37 – Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

    Revelation 20:12 – And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Not according to D0n Grundmann!)

    Don, all I’m saying to you is that my view is a CONSTITUTIONAL one. And my attitude towards homosexuals, while I believe they are in fact in sin, is one that I believe Christ would have. If you cannot respect that, if you cannot respond or debate my view in a way that is both civil and mature (lacking in name calling and vile remarks) you are hard pressed to convince me of your Christianity and relationship with God while you attack mine.

  41. Mark Seidenberg

    In one California County the Constitution Party
    of California’s registrtation was 3 on February 10,
    2013. On May 17, 2013 it was zero. My guess the Constitution Party of California with Don Grundmann at the head is causing a departure
    of their few electors in the Constitution Party of
    California.

  42. Karen Murray

    The Chairman of the Constitution Party of California is Nathan Johnson. Any official statements about the policies and positions of the Constitution Party of California should be directed to him. He can be reached at njohnso2@san.it.com. Don Grundmann does not speak for either the national or the state party. If you need to clarify something that pertains to the party on a national level, you can contact me at communications@constitutionparty.com, or FB message me, and I’ll do my best to get you an answer.
    Karen Murray

  43. Jill Pyeatt

    From Law.com

    http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1153:

    libel

    1) n. to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others.

    Don Grundmann in one comment alone (53 above) uses my name in a derogatory and untrue manner. This is NOT okay with me.

    I went two months utterly ignoring him, not commenting on any threads he was on, and so on, hoping it would go away.

    Dr.Grundmann, you are hereby on notice: you stop including me in your hateful missives, or I will indeed find an attorney. I’m sick of it. I doubt that your lack of using my middle name will prevent me from proving you have, and are continuing to, do me harm.

  44. Jill Pyeatt

    William @ 59, he continues to say that I believe in and promote the “homosexual agenda”. He also continues to call me “anti-Christian”. If you truly don’t understand my problem yet (although I doubt it), try reading the last 50 of Dr. Grundmann’s comments, and insert your name instead of mine.

    I also don’t appreciate being called a “rodent”, which he didn’t in the comment above, but has done many times in his comments.

    I’ve tolerated this for months, and I’m really sick of it. Dr. Grundmann is a professional, and should have the ability to understand that I will no longer tolerate it.

  45. William Saturn

    Those are his opinions. Since you have publicly stated your political views, those are now public statements open to this sort of ridicule.

    I do not agree with Grundmann, but he is not claiming anything factually untruthful as Jimmy Rustles did.

  46. Mark Seidenberg

    Karen Murray

    I like Nathan Johnson, however, he is not in control of the Constitution Party in California
    according to the California Secretary of State.

    There used to be a Constitution Party of California , but Don Grundmann ended it
    after the meeting in Bakerfield. He then
    change the name to the Constitution Party.
    Don Grundmann is in control of the Constitution Party.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

  47. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    Jill P. – A) You have stated that God created homosexuals. B) The Homosexual/Sodomy community has created a website ( B4U-ACT ) that claims that child molestors are ” Minor Attracted Persons ” ( MAPS ) who simply have a ” sexual orientation ” toward children; i.e.; they were born ( made by God ) that way. C) I challenged you many months ago that your claim that homosexuals are ” born that way ” automatically means that you agree with the claim of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement that ” MAPS ” are also born that way. D) You refused to answer since you could not escape out of the philosophical hole which you have put yourself in.

    I am simply exposing that your claim to be a ” Christian ” is false since you A) proclaim that God makes homosexuals, and B) deny those afflicted persons the chance to be healed via repentance of their affliction by your support, endorsement, and promotion of that affliction; such as via your attack on the Boy Scouts ( which you are quite proud of ). Then rather than acknowledge your beliefs you want to have me banned and say you will call in an attorney. As with so many others your precious ” image ” tops all else. You won’t acknowledge, much less change, the evil which you support/endorse but when you are challenged on it you use any escape route to avoid ” fessing up ” to the corruption which you support.

    You are simply being exposed for your professed beliefs which you then turn around and call ” harm.”

    Can’t you be ” proud ” of supporting evil? Why not? You are proud of it until you get challenged. Why not be proud ALL of the time?

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. sadly watching the demise of a once great nation as its citizens openly support The Enemy of God

  48. Deran

    It seems to me that Mr. Grundmann is a lunatic. In my opinion he is probably a dangerous sort of lunatic.

    I would conted that if Mr.s Milnes and Ogle are banned for disruptive posting, I would think Mr. grundmann would laos qualify as such. So, in my opinion, it would seem to the health of IPR that Mr. Grundmann be banned as well. He does not contribute to discussions, he calls people names and goes on sexualized rants.

    Mr. Grundmann’s main task seems to be to try and wreck IPR by driving away the volunteers that make IPR what it is. I would think the owners of IPR are losing value on IPR by Mr. Grundmann’s posts that drive away the people that are adding value to IPR.

    I realize none of the volunteer staff of IPR want to be tyrants, but it seems to me that Mr. Grundmann has set himself up as a tyrant in the comment threads.

    Like Mr. Ogle, Mr. Grundmann has websites and blogs of his own on which to excersice his free speech, so by banning him he would not be deprived of a forums for his opinions.

  49. NewFederalist

    OR… bring back Ogle and Milnes to chase Grundmann around with a USA Parliament or PLAS post everytime he does his sodomy thing. That might drive him away. Any way one cuts it neither Milnes nor Ogle were abusive.

  50. William Saturn

    No one should be banned based on views.

    Ogle is rightfully banned based on spam. The neo-Nazi troll is rightfully banned based on continued libel.

    Neither Grundmann nor Milnes should be banned.

  51. NewFederalist

    Saturn… aren’t you right next to Uranus? I thought so! If not, you should be!

  52. johnO

    Napoleon was once banned……from France(and Europe). He did upset the old European order with a major war. Not sure Grundmann and/or the others are in his league.

  53. Mark Seidenberg

    I do not think most get it, viz., that the Constitution Party of California is not a political
    body trying to qualify in the Primary of June, 2014. That is because Dr. Don Grundmann has
    changed the name of the political body to just
    Constitution Party.

    It means that registration is falling and not increasing for the CP in California. Grundmann
    had shot the Constiution Party of California in the foot. The CP of California will not be going up in numbers it is going down in registration.

    What is Frank going to do, write another information letter to Dr. Grundmann!?

  54. William Saturn

    @70

    Ogle is not entertaining, unless you enjoy reading extremely long lists of names.

  55. Mark Seidenberg

    William Saturn

    What is the problem with Ogle? I met him twice
    in Red Bluff, CA and seen to be a very informative person.

  56. William Saturn

    I personally have no problem with Ogle. In fact, he’s a Phil Davison supporter and a good guy. In the past two years, I’ve been the only one to post articles about him. See:
    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/02/james-ogle-edges-uncommitted-to-win-missouri-libertarian-presidential-primary/
    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/02/lp-presidential-candidate-james-ogle-discusses-roseanne-barr-the-lp-website/

    But he continually spams long lists of names pertaining to his fantasy system. So I believe that justifies his ban from commenting. Of course, if he promised me to stop, I’d give him another shot, but that’s not my decision to make.

  57. Deran

    Entertaining or not, Mr.s Ogle and Milnes caused IPR to lose value due to their spamming. Mr. Grundmann is also causeing a lose in value to IPR, and Mr. Grundmann is a spammer. He spams the same threatening and sexualized rants when ever he has a moment. That qualifies as spam, if we take Mr. Ogle’s spam and Mr. Milnes’ spam as an example.

    Mr. Saturn obviously likes to play games and would rather see IPR completely abandoned by anyone interested in anything but vulgarianist free speech. I imagine it will be Mr. Saturn and Mr. Grundmann on their own soon enough.

    And as I said, Mr. Redlich has stated that he values IPR as a community, but if Mr. Grundmann is driving away the community, isn’t that the opposite of what Mr. Redlich has said he sees as the value of IPR?

    I don’t find probable psychological illnesses entertaining.

  58. From Der Sidelines

    Keep talking, Donny Boy, because the more you babble and rant, the less people consider you sane and more of a lunatic.

    Perhaps you simply need to let out all those suppressed homosexual tendencies of yours in a giant gay orgy before you pop a vein and put us all out of your misery.

    Of course, I expect Donny Boy to now go off on me in the same vein as he has others, because he would call Jesus himself a sodomite and child of Satan if he discovered that the disciple Jesus loved was loved in a non-platonic way as a lot of us who have done our research suspect. Nobody but Donny Boy passes his purity test, which is actually rooted in hate and impurity because of his own internal sexual conflict, which he then projects on everyone else.

    In the meantime, he simply makes one sadly shake their head at his example of ridiculous bigotry.

  59. Joshua Fauver

    #77 that would be absolutely correct. In fact, if we would just abolish the income tax and IRS, that would take care of that as well.

  60. Deran

    By the way, Concerned Citizen is, in my opinion, Mr. Ogle. So those that wish his return find themselves already fulfilled.

    But, not so very amusing.

  61. paulie

    Please discuss debate parameters questions in the debate parameters thread.

    That’s all I have the energy to say now.

  62. Mark Seidenberg

    Deran related to post 79 and 81.

    Are you Don Grundmann, because you post like
    him. For years Dr. Grundmann would see a posting he did not like and state it was a Mark
    Seidenberg posting under a different name.

    Does Ogle get the new posting like Grundmann
    attacks me?

  63. Peter Gemma

    let’s try this scenario when considering toning down the poison Grundmann spews … replace gays/homosexuals with Jews and Niggers … can someone weasel in accusing Jews as parasites when discussing vote totals or blacks as sub-human in the context of ballot access? Where does this “just his opinion” stuff end?
    I’m with Paulie: let these threads be connected, logically, with the topic – anyone who wants to wander off to debate the Bible or whether Martians live among us should be invited to carry on elsewhere. Here and there in this thread are some interesting political facts and differences – but I have to wade through lurid language to find it. Makes involvement in IPR a chore – and does not put me in a position to recommend the site to others.

  64. Mark Seidenberg

    Peter Gemma {back to my Post 51}

    The last time Dr. Don Grundmann was a delegate
    to a convention of the American Independent Party of California was in early July, 2008 at the headquarters of the California Secretary of State in Sacramento. The Sacramento County Community of Downtown Sacramento was the
    Community which the State Central Committee
    designated for the 2008 Convention and State
    Central Committee meeting of the AIP.

    Dr. Grundmann began to refer to the member of
    State Central Committee which voted for that
    community of Downtown Sacramento as “Rats”
    and “Rodents” that conducted the meeting on
    “fake telephones”.

    The best thing that ever happen to the AIP was when Dr. Grundmann walked out of the 2008
    convention, thereby giving Dr. Alan Keyes and
    Dr. Wiley Drake the nomination for POTUS/VPOTUS of 100%

    Your comment on “Martians living among us”
    recalls the press release issued by the United
    States Secretary of Agriculture John Block during
    the mid-1980’s in the Reagan Administration.
    Which stated that “Martians were buying a ship
    load of grain from the United States”. Some one
    in my agency drew a picture of a “space ship” being loaded by little green men from a hopper
    rail car. The press release had a mispelling, viz.
    “Martians” was a mispelling for “Martrans” an
    agency of the Government of Egypt.

    Last night I spoke with Richard Winger about his
    comment on Post 39. He was of the belief that the American Independent Party of California should have taken Debra Bowen to court about the legal requirement that state law direct how
    the location of conventions take place. I do not
    agree. In any case James King did sue the Debra
    Bowen over the location of the 2006 convention
    in the Sacramento County in the Community of
    Rancho Cordova. James King lost.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party of California

    P.S. There is no more political body registered
    with the CA Secretary of State name the “Constitution Party of California” . Grundmann changed that name to “Constitution Party” after the Bakersfield, CA meeting.

    What does Frank plan to do about that? Is he going to write an additional information letter to
    Dr. Don Grundmann as to his status within the CP!?

  65. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    Peter @ #83 – One of the latest attacks of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement against the children of our nation is known in California as the ” bathroom bill.” It is currently advancing through the California legislature.

    Here any emotionally, mentally, and spiritually destroyed child can decide that their real ” gender identity ” is opposite of that which they are born as.

    Practical result – any child ( a boy as an example ) can, by declaring himself to be a girl, use the girls bathroom and locker room inclusive of showers any time they wish. Denying this ability to them is then to deny them their ” civil rights.”

    It is the objective of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement to pass such laws throughout the nation with many anticipated results – A) breaking down the morality, most specifically Christian, of any and all school children; B) emotionally, mentally, and spiritually shattering school children so that the culture which has underlied western civilization for countless years, most specifically the nuclear family, is shattered and obliterated, C) and many other effects – all extremely negative.

    A friend told me that there would certainly there would be a backlash against such a monstrous idea. I told him – No. There will be no backlash. The citizenry, at least an adequate number of them, will not oppose even such insanity as they have been too well Socially Engineered. The fear of being called ” homophobic ” or any other Cultural Communism term will be more than enough to stop them dead in their tracks as they are a populace which has been trained to value its ” image ” over even its children.

    I have also noted at my website of CandleCrusade.org the phenomenon of my own elementary school; Roosevelt Elementary School in San Leandro, CA.; having a ( courtesy of the lesbian principle ) GayLesbianBisexualTransgenderQueer Club. I have attended a special ” parents ” meeting where volunteers were being trained to indoctrinate the children, starting in kindergarten, to accept homosexuality.

    Additionally I have also complained in posts here on IPR regarding the decision of the Chicago School Board to, effective in 2014 – A) Change the beginning of sex education teaching from 5th grade to kindergarten, and B) teach ” gender expression ” to such kindergarteners.

    Lastly I have opposed those are doing what was once unthinkable – protesting against and attacking the Boy Scouts so that they would include homosexuals throughout their ranks. What was once an organization for the development of MEN is to be gutted so that morality, nobility, integrity and many other qualities which men would ideally grow up to have will be erased and replaced with sexual perversion and its associated pathologies as new standards of conduct.

    In these and many other areas I have endeavored to protect the children of our nation, both now and especially in the future, from the great tragedies which these singular ideas collectively combined by their attackers intend for them to experience.

    50 years ago who would have believed that there would be a clamor to have homosexuals, those totally opposed to the foundational principles of the organization ( those who represent its VERY OPPOSITE ), in the Boy Scouts?

    Who would have believed that legislators, ANY legislator ANYwhere, would actually even consider, much less pass, ANY bill that would allow boys to use girls bathrooms/showers or the reverse?

    Who would have believed that there would be clubs IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, and this throughout the nation, promoting homosexuality?

    Who would have believed that sex education classes would A) be taught in any school; B) be taught STARTING IN KINDERGARTEN; and/or C) be used to promote homosexuality?

    Who would have believed that such would occur?

    And who would have believed that such would not only happen but that A) many people would actually support, endorse, and promote such insanity/sickness but also B) claim, actually claim with a straight face, to be ” Christian?”

    Who would believe what would have been, at that time, total fantasies?

    Fast forward to our time and countless people, via the fantastic success of Social Engineering, not only support such monstrous acts but those who oppose them are called ” nutjob, ” albatross, ” and ” poison.”

    And this from a person on the Executive Committee of the CP – presuming you are THAT Peter Gemma.

    Who would have believed any such development?

    But it is all true. And it shows that the desires of Quirk, Fauver, and KL; worthless nothings who are Socially Engineered drones and wimps in the ” finest ” ( worst and most pathetic and God forsaken ) sense; have actually achieved their goal of destroying the CP, and this in a record amount of time; although in truth the destruction began before their latest attack(s).

    For another friend told me last night – What about their platform ( here in reference to the CP )? My response – Look at the Republicans. They talk pro-life and pro-REAL marriage and what do you get? Just talk with the opposite actions.

    Will the CP be any different? Yes, there are many members who ARE pro-REAL marriage. But when you have an Executive Committee member joining forces with sworn enemies of the party how is that different from the Republicans?

    To myself it is just an indicator, one among many, that the deadly disease of ” imagitis ” ( a preening concern with the image as being of #1, #2, #3, etc, importance over principle and substance ) has taken hold. And once ego takes hold it NEVER gives up.

    So the CP is not immune from the soul infection of the nation. There is a movie ” World War Z ” coming out tomorrow. Well the soul zombies are already winning here in our nation. We are, as well shown here at IPR and throughout our culture, already defeated. Our national soul is being eaten out and replaced by the religion of The Enemy of God. This death is well illustrated and documented here at IPR.

    They will attack the Boy Scouts, they will attack by allowing ( actually promoting ) boys to use girls locker rooms and bathrooms (What happened to fathers protecting their daughters and sons? ). They will allow homosexual indoctrination clubs to be established in elementary schools as part of their attack. They will attack children by starting sex indoctrination in kindergarten. And they will attack the children of the nation in countless other monstrous ways.

    And countless people will cheer them on and attack those who dare to defend them.

    Only ONE national political party HAD(?) the guts to fight in defense of the most basic principles of our nation and even of humanity – the defense of children; the most defenseless of all.

    And now we can see the CP at the edge of the cliff and about to fall off.

    How easy it has been for the enemies of God and His creation to totally shatter any opposition to their evil in a fantastically short period of time.

    And now even the CP has ( apparently ) fallen.

    Oh, it stands up when you look at it. Just like a Potemkin village.

    But when an Executive Board member of the CP stands in alliance with the sworn enemies of not only the party but the children of the nation and the nation itself; and this to follow the cultural ” Pavlovs dogs ” training of protecting ” image ” and abandoning foundational principles of the nation to join an apparent winning side ( reminds me of Benedict Arnold ) then our enemies have indeed almost achieved their “Nirvana ” of bringing a permanent darkness to our nation.

    And of destroying the last political party that A) gave a damn; and B) had at least a sliver of a chance to save the nation.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. fighting to defend the principles of our nation, our children, and our future with no backup

  66. Mark Seidenberg

    Wow. so Dr. Don Grundmann owns an elementary school in San Leandro, CA.

    Don Grundmann has a friend that talks
    to him about backlash against the issue of
    transgender children using showers of the
    other sex. What kind of people talk to each
    others of boy and girl children taking showers together!?

    Don Grundmann does not understand what is
    really going on. It is the plumbing industry that
    what to sell more bathrooms to the public schools. They can not have black and white shower any more, because of Civil Rights Laws.
    So they are telling school districts that children
    that think they are of a different sex need their
    own private bathroom, otherwise a boy can start
    using the girls bathroom, and that would upset
    a parent, because their daughter could get a baby
    in the bathroom and then sue the school district.

    The MATTER OF LOVO case before the BIA shows how far the Obama administation has gone in trashing DOMA. Same sex marriage
    is now O.K. with the Obama’s Justice Department.

    The bathroom bill is just another way the
    plumping industry can make money off of
    school districts at public expense.

  67. Mark Seidenberg

    Ad Hoc at post 92

    Why the post here? Is it because you like Linda Blair as an actress or you just like Anderson’s Split Pea Soup?

  68. langa

    I can’t recall the last time I read a thread which did not include someone calling for someone else to be banned from IPR.

    By the way, I’m not accusing anyone of being a dictator, or having authoritarian tendencies, or anything else which might hurt anyone’s feelings. I’m simply making an observation.

  69. paulie

    There are plenty of threads that don’t have anyone call for banning anyone. And there is a thread devoted to that discussion precisely so that it doesn’t take over unrelated threads. I’m tired of the argument myself.

  70. Mark Seidenberg

    Waldemar Testarossa Fiumente at Post 98.

    Sorry it was a typo error. The word is “plumbing” at posts 95 and 97.

  71. RedPhillips

    Sorry I’m a little late to this party. With all due respect to KL, who does more than his share of the heavy lifting when it comes to posting content here at IPR, I agree with those who have said that an official IPR poster shouldn’t be overtly promoting a particular outcome with their posts. People will always have their own biases and agendas that guide their choice of posts, but to explicitly state that your reason for making a post is to achieve a certain outcome is contra the intent of IPR as I understand it.

  72. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    Red – They ( Quirk, Fauver, KL ) have created an entire website with the surface cover of reporting on the CP but with the real objective of destroying it.

    So while IPR may have at one time been about reporting ( and simply that ) it is now simply ( when looking past the surface cover ) a vehicle for those who wish to use it to destroy; just like the everyday media.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. one who has experience with IPR being used as an attack weapon against them

  73. paulie

    Red,

    You may have forgotten (I believe you were here before me or around the same time about 5 years ago), but the primary impetus for the creation of IPR was from radical libertarians who were at the time alienated from the LP leadership (and in the case of some from the LP as a whole), much as Josh and Cody are now alienated from the CP. Seagraves et al. posted with an agenda frequently, even while paying lip service to objectivity. I tried to make things more balanced, even though I shared their agenda.

    That said, I do still think the intent of IPR should be to be more balanced and less agenda driven, with agenda advanced more subtly and mostly through comments. I don’t think it’s an easy thing to do, or even possible to do perfectly, but I try to make an effort and hope others will too.

    Others have done agenda driven posting in the meantime, Brian for example. So I don’t know how hard and fast a rule we should really have.

    And regardless of whether the CP deserves to die or not, I do not think IPR could affect it that much.

  74. RedPhillips

    “Red – They ( Quirk, Fauver, KL ) have created an entire website with the surface cover of reporting on the CP but with the real objective of destroying it.”

    Before you destroy something you best be sure you have an alternative in place to replace it or else you might not be happy with the outcome. So what is the plan? For the IAP to go national once the CP implodes? How is the IAP substantially different than the CP?

  75. paulie

    Yes, I believe that is their plan. They claim it is better because of the people involved but wouldn’t many of the same problem people, or ones like them, wind up in a bigger IAP?

  76. Mark Seidenberg

    paulie for post 105

    In the July, 2013 issue of UCLA MAGAZINE is an article by Robin Keats, entitled REORIENTATION OF A NATION, (Volume 24,
    Number 4), pages 26 through 33. That article
    has pictures that would be of interest in Dr. Grundmann on pages 26 and 27.

    The article goes into detail of what the UCLA
    Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation and
    Gender Law and Policy is doing to push laws
    to change the public policy on Gender through
    out these United States. So far they got Gender
    Policy changed in 21 States and the general government.

    They are the primary source that killed DOMA
    in the MATTER OF LOVO before the BIA in the
    Obama’s Department of Justice. See my Post # 91.

    The article states a quote by Chuck Williams
    that there is ‘no congressional legislation that
    protects LGBT’s . “It is inconceivable to me that
    one can be fired in 29 states because of sexual orientation.” (page 31). Personally it is inconseivable to me that LGBT’s can not be fired
    in the other 21 states. In a free market the enployer should have the right to fire and hire
    who he choices and the state government should
    not prohibit the employer rights, because of the
    gender issues of the employees.

  77. Waldemar Testarossa Fiumente

    “That article
    has pictures that would be of interest in Dr. Grundmann on pages 26 and 27.”

    Young buff men with no clothes on?

  78. Waldemar Testarossa Fiumente

    Well that first picture in the second link may appeal to Grundmann. But they may be too old and with too many clothes on.

  79. William Saturn

    @113

    The only thing stinking up the site is people who want to muzzle speech they disagree with.

  80. Mark Seidenberg

    paulie at Post # 105 you suggested the dyke in the men’s room could follow the proceedure in the posting.

    Would you want to stand at the next urinal while
    the bulldyke adjusting “clothes to get out of the
    way, pants down” and “underwear down and to
    the side” then using their fingers to spread their
    inner labia apart and slightly up and taking a
    little trial and error” with their golden shower?

    If they want to stand they should use the T-PEE
    or GO-GIRL, otherwise some one will need to mop the floor.
    in
    The bottom line is we do not need uni sex bathrooms. There is a good reason to keep girl
    in woman lavatories and boy in men’s lavatories,
    in addition to preventing the increase acts of rape at the public schools.

  81. Mark Seidenberg

    I just read an article from the DAILY CALLER of
    June 21, 2013. It states that there have been 40
    student to student “Sodomy rapes” in school
    bathrooms over the last year in the United States.

    I believe AB 1266 will increase that number with
    the addition of some sicko male student claiming
    to be a transgender using a woman bathroom or
    locker room and wanting to have”lesbian” sex
    “rape” was a female student.
    See:
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/21/anal-hazing-is-appartly-a-thing-in-american-high-schools.jpg

  82. paulie

    Mark,

    I don’t know why you presume that women who would do this are lesbian.

    I have no problem with urinating next to a woman, lesbian or not. Doesn’t bother me one bit. I find the American fascination with gender segregation to be silly.

    I agree with Steve Rhodes and Deran about the homophobic nonsense.

  83. paulie

    @118 Doesn’t seem like a very valid fear based on transgender women I have known. Just more prejudice. If someone is going to rape people, are they going to have qualms about walking into an opposite sex bathroom? Please.

  84. Cody Quirk

    Red, the IAP is already national, we just haven’t established our presence well enough, yet.

  85. Waldemar Testarossa Fiumente

    I think IAP has a little more ballot access than the Modern Whig Party. Probably close to the Objectivist, Reform, Natural Law and Twelve Visions parties.

  86. Cody Quirk

    #108

    Not only that, but our principles, platform, and bylaws are better too, though the further we get organized, the better they will become.

    And also- those of a extreme, and prejudiced bent, or with a agenda that is in opposition to our goals and principles -will not ever be made leaders in the IAP, or even tolerated among our active ranks, period.

    Unlike the CP, we won’t make that costly mistake.

  87. Cody Quirk

    #122, we will be getting on the ballot in more states as the year progresses.

  88. langa

    There have been plenty of people on this site who have advocated for various wars, and some of them are still around.

    Yes, homophobic prejudice is foolish, but is it really worse than advocating mass murder?

  89. paulie

    I didn’t say anything about one particular comment being worse than others. Just that if you want to discuss the issue, please take it to the thread made for that discussion. It’s more of a request for future comments than a comment on past ones. Now please stop making this more difficult; no one is stopping the discussion you want to have, I’m just asking you to take it to the thread devoted to that discussion. Dunno why that’s so hard.

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2011/02/debate-on-debate-parameters-plus-should-paulie-stay/

    Just in case you couldn’t find the link.

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