Oregon: Gary Johnson Will Not be Appearing at Oregon PAC Convention (UNCONFIRMED/CONTRADICTED-SEE COMMENTS)

Edit to add 3/21/16: Since the publication of this article, the Oregon PAC and the campaign of Austin Petersen are advertising that it is still going forward. A written confirmation one way or another was requested from the Johnson campaign without response. The prior source was consulted and confirmed but nothing in writing officially from the campaign has been published. As far as all advertisements are concerned, the event is still going forward.

oregon-md3aIt had been previously advertised that Gary Johnson would be debating Austin Petersen at the Liberty Party of Oregon (PAC) Annual Convention on March 26, 2016; however, it has been confirmed with the Johnson Campaign that he will not be appearing. Long-time IPR readers will be aware that the PAC is not the Libertarian Party recognized by the State of Oregon nor the Party that holds the ballot access line which belongs to The Libertarian Party of Oregon (Chaired by Lars Hedbor). Any candidate that appears at this event might be interpreted by The Libertarian Party of Oregon as forfeiting their potential access to the Oregon ballot line. You can find more information on this dispute on IPR by reading the articles located here.

Edit to add: Further, the PAC is not the organization recognized by the Libertarian National Committee nor the Libertarian Party website as the Libertarian Party’s affiliate in Oregon. That distinction belongs to The Libertarian Party of Oregon (Chaired by Lars Hedbor).

This entry was posted in Libertarian Party and tagged on by .

About Caryn Ann Harlos

Caryn Ann Harlos is a paralegal residing in Castle Rock, Colorado and presently serving as the Region 1 Representative on the Libertarian National Committee and is a candidate for LNC Secretary at the 2018 Libertarian Party Convention. Articles posted should NOT be considered the opinions of the LNC nor always those of Caryn Ann Harlos personally. Caryn Ann's goal is to provide information on items of interest and (sometimes) controversy about the Libertarian Party and minor parties in general not to necessarily endorse the contents.

65 thoughts on “Oregon: Gary Johnson Will Not be Appearing at Oregon PAC Convention (UNCONFIRMED/CONTRADICTED-SEE COMMENTS)

  1. Thomas L. Knapp

    In addition to not being the Libertarian Party recognized by the state or holding the ballot line, the impostor organization is also not the LNC’s affiliate in Oregon. It simply has no affiliation whatsoever with the Libertarian Party.

  2. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    I was going to add that but didn’t want to get into the whole JC/LNC thing. The important thing is that Johnson made the wise move.

  3. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Actually Tom you are right. That is important. Edited to add that.

  4. Lars D. H. Hedbor

    Just a point of clarification — any valid candidate who requests placement on our primary ballot by the deadline will be included.

    We applaud the outreach to Republicans in Oregon through participation in their “Libertarian” PAC’s meeting, but do want all candidates to be clear that the only certain means of appearing as the Libertarian candidate on the general election ballot in November is through participation in the Libertarian Party of Oregon’s primary.

  5. George Phillies

    Also, Johnson is not currently a candidate, at least in the LNC sense.

    Why is the LNC listing Gary Johnson as a Presidential candidate?

    The LNC requirement is that you be a conscientious objector (Perry) or that you have filed as a candidate.

    Johnson HAS NOT filed. Go look on the FEC pages

    (You must do a fill in the blank to reach the page)

    There is an object C00605568 GARY JOHNSON 2016. That IS NOT a candidate filing. It is a random committee that is not supposed to claim it is a candidate committee, because the candidate has not designated it on an FEC Form 1.

    A CANDIDATE FILING looks like this one on the FEC pages


    That is Johnson’s 2012 Form 1 Filing for the 2012 election. Johnson has not made a Form 1 declaration of candidacy filing for 2016.

    Be well,


  6. George Phillies

    Indeed, if you can find Details for Candidate ID : P20002671 You will find listed the 2012 candidacy declaration, the 2012 committee legally specified in the declaration, and this 2016 committee, specified as being for the 2012 campaign.

    If you think the 2012 declaration is legally valid for a 2016 campaign, then you should note that

    http://www.fec.gov/fecviewer/CandidateCommitteeDetail.do?candidateCommitteeId=P80003080 is just as legally valid, except I am not at the moment raising money and thus do not need a campaign committee.

    I have indeed seen the audit reports. That’s how we know the $300,000 was a bonus to the campaign manager for getting Johnson the 2012 nomination.

  7. George Phillies

    Steve, Most of this form filling is electronic by computer, and the computers are just fine. George

  8. Stewart Flood

    Wow. I hadn’t read them before. He has the same campaign consultants — obviously.

    From what I see, one of the biggest problem was accepting matching funds. That appears to have caused all sorts of issues. The fact that the campaign consultants were billing the campaign at a rate that exceeded contributions is another.

    Whether the campaign has filed for 2016 or not, I would HOPE that any contributions made are being used for 2016 and not just going to pay off this debt. And since the campaign consultants are probably going to charge as much (if not more) than before, how can anyone making a contribution have any reasonable expectation that any of their donation is going be used for anything other than to pay the consultants!

  9. Steve m

    Electronic filings don’t get automatically moved from input to output without screening.

  10. George Phillies

    Having been an FEC filer in several contexts, so far as I can tell the FEC has serious password security and does not screen filings. Mine always went up more or less instantly.

  11. George Phillies


    Matching funds were a small part of the issue. The current campaign consultants are
    Liberty Consulting Services P.O. Box 1708
    Salt Lake City, Utah 84110

    and they are raking it in for “Campaign consulting services “, and nothing else. No printing, mailing,…just consultant services.

    My sources assure me that there may be a separate corporate body but it is the same guy at the top.

    What do I mean matching funds were a small deal? I quote from my forthcoming book, still in draft form. The reference to “filings” is to FEC filings, one on April 2012 spending made in 2012 before NatCon, an amended also treating April 2012 that was made in 2013, and a second amended filing also treating April 2012 that was made in 2015. Like Rashemon, the same event has several points of view:

    “In April 2012, the days leading up to the National Convention, the Johnson campaign had $59,447.89 in income and spent $59,533.58. As in prior months, all three filings agree on these amounts. However, in the 2012 filing, the claimed campaign debt was $150,181.35. In February 2013, the new filing revealed the debt was actually $1,209,758, more than eight times as much. In February 2015, the Second Amended Filing claimed that the debt was $1,239,478, an additional $30,000 corresponding to the late-identified debts to ThoughtLab.”

    It is possible that some delegates who voted for Johnson, thinking he had manageable debts of $150,181, would have acted differently, if they had thought he had debts of $1,239,478.

  12. Stewart Flood

    I have no doubt that whether you liked him or not, Lee Wrights would have been the nominee. Personally, I think he had way too many anger management issues. But he did run a respectable primary campaign. And he slaughtered Johnson in the debate.

    Repeating this would be insanity. And selling OUR MEMBERS’ information — along with others from the general public — is not ethical. That data should have come back to the party. We have to have better control of data given to presidential candidates and the enforcement of the return. This has not been done for several election cycles.

  13. Thomas L. Knapp

    “It is possible that some delegates who voted for Johnson, thinking he had manageable debts of $150,181, would have acted differently, if they had thought he had debts of $1,239,478.”

    Yes, it is possible.

    It is also possible that they would have acted differently if they had known about the promise of a $300,000 bonus to his manager if he got the nomination, given that that amount is about a third of what a post-nomination LP campaign typically raises.

    But of course, that is hindsight stuff and we can’t say how it would have come out.

    What we CAN say is that Johnson and his campaign knowingly and willfully lied to the Libertarian Party’s members and national convention delegates for the purpose of defrauding them out of their presidential nomination even if they didn’t have to do so to get that nomination.

    If you ask me for $50 and tell me it’s for crack and I give it to you anyway, that’s on me.

    If you ask me for $50 to bet on Horse X to win in Race 5 and tell me you’ll split any winnings with me and then spend the money on crack instead, you’ve defrauded me even if I would have given you the money for crack if you had told me the truth.

  14. Alexander S. Peak

    So, there’s an organisation in Oregon called the Liberty Party of Oregon that invited Libertarian Party candidates to come to its convention in order to debate?

    And why would someone be confused into thinking that an organisation calling itself the Liberty Party of Oregon would be the Oregon affiliate of the Libertarian Party instead of the Libertarian Party of Oregon?

    And why would the Libertarian Party of Oregon kick candidates off the ballot simply because said candidates happened to attend an event hosted by this Liberty Party of Oregon organisation?

    All of this seems very confusing.

  15. steve m


    “For years, the F.E.C. has said in its strategic planning documents that it would complete 95 percent of its processing within 30 days of a filing deadline.

    So when we downloaded the F.E.C. files on May 21, we believed that virtually all reports from 2014 House candidates submitted by April 15 would be included. We were shocked to find, however, that information for 347 of the 703 active House candidates for the first quarter of the year was missing.

    We asked the F.E.C. if something unusual — an information technology crisis, perhaps — had occurred. The response was much more disturbing: The agency told us it simply hadn’t finished processing the filings. We’d never heard that one before.”

  16. robert capozzi

    cah: Any candidate that appears at this event might be interpreted by The Libertarian Party of Oregon as forfeiting their potential access to the Oregon ballot line.

    me: Curious use of the word “forfeiting.” Appearing at the PAC could be alienating to the SOS-recognized LPO, though even there it seems odd that the mere appearance at a voter event would necessarily lead to potential forfeiture.

    What if a candidate went to the PAC and said “y’all should go back to Lars’s posse?”

    This seems to reflect a catastrophizing mindset.

  17. Wes Wagner

    At issue are the questions being put to the libertarian voters in oregon on our primary ballot. If Johnson is perceived as the front runner and he appears at such an event, the likelihood is mich higher that a vote to not list anyone the national party nominates regardless of what happens in Orlando goes up.

  18. George Phillies

    Steve M
    Thank you for this remarkable bit of information. In all the years I have been a treasurer of some FEC filing group, I would upload the information, wait a couple of minutes, download what I had just uploaded, and check that everything matched. My files went up where they could be viewed immediately. I seem to have avoided this issue.

    (Naturally, the one time I was interrupted and never got back to this step was the time that the Form A data mysteriously failed to upload, which took a while to untangle.)

  19. steve m


    Apparently not all filings are equal. I believe that many are still being done manually. And maybe for the exact reason that the FEC is like most federal bureaucracies slow. OpenSecrets.org is not the only group that has noticed a lag in data being available.

  20. steve m

    I think that Gary Johnson should be asked at one of the Debates if he has filed officially to be a Presidential Candidate for 2016.

  21. steve m

    from the fec…

    “Each individual who is a candidate for federal office must file an FEC Form 2 within 15 days of becoming a candidate. The candidate may file this form on paper or electronically. Paper filers may choose to send a letter that contains the information required on the FEC Form 2, in lieu of the form itself. “

  22. George Phillies

    Correspondents have suggested that the FEC form 2 filing needs manual activation to activate the links, and that someone in DC attached the right campaign committee to the wrong Form 2, so that only the wrong Form 2 is visible.

  23. steve m

    “Correspondents have suggested that the FEC form 2 filing needs manual activation to activate the links, and that someone in DC attached the right campaign committee to the wrong Form 2, so that only the wrong Form 2 is visible.”

    Demonstrating that once again… given every opportunity… we humans are such klutzes.

    Thanks George.

  24. Joseph Buchman

    Wes Wagner @ March 19, 2016 at 18:02

    “The fake LPO website still says Johnson is coming.”

    Your point being

    A) this is another example of the fictions, falsehoods, fabrications, and fantasies found on this fraudulent website?

    B) Johnson is actually coming (and the anonymous campaign insider source for this article was mistaken)?

    Someone could simply call/email Joe Hunter/an official with the campaign to clarify this (Paulie sent an email, yesterday, but no response yet).

    On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 2:17 PM, wrote:

    Fine, since you keep raising the question.. I AM passing this one on to Ron, but taking out the whole conversation chain. Since Ron may not understand the question you are asking, what it refers to is, was there an initial commitment by the Johnson campaign to appear at the convention of the PAC chaired by Ian Epstein and associated with Richard Burke and Tim Reeves, which considers itself to be the Libertarian Party of Oregon but is not recognized as such by either the state of Oregon government or by LPHQ? We have now posted an article at IPR that says that an anonymous source in the campaign has now said Gov. Johnson will not participate in the PAC’s convention. However, Joe Buchman is asking for an official response from the campaign as well as clarification as to whether there was an initial confirmation to appear at the event, as the PAC’s website and social media advertising claims.

    On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Joseph Buchman wrote:
    . . . . Was it a change (by the Johnson campaign) or was it the PAC jumping the gun? Seems we should try for an official attributed response whenever possible, yes?

  25. Joseph Buchman

    Just to be clear.

    1) I don’t think “Bob is NOT doing something” is newsworthy.

    2) I DO think that “The Oregon PAC falsely advertised Johnson’s appearance” IS newsworthy (if that is what happened).


    2) I also think “Johnson withdraws commitment to speak at Oregon PAC” is also likewise newsworthy (if that is what happened) especially with an explication of WHY?

    Unfortunately, all we have here so far is number 1 and I’m waiting for a number 2.

  26. Mike

    Gary, who got the $57 Million that investors sunk into your pot penny-scam company Medican (MDCN) ?? How about your other penny stock scam CBDS ?? Gonna pay them back ???

  27. Stewart Flood

    Governor Johnson’s campaign is clearly following IPR. I received a call from the Governor this morning and got an opportunity to directly ask him questions about the 2012 campaign.

    Rather than just ask/beg for support (as other candidates have done), he addressed my questions and I thought we had a very good discussion. I don’t want to post what he said, since I believe it is more appropriate for anything from him or his campaign to be from them and not a repeat of a conversation, but I did get some answers that left me with a better opinion of what took place.

    I hope that his campaign addresses the questions that I and others have raised. This is possibly the “perfect storm” year in politics for our party, and if he receives the nomination — as many people predict — the campaign will need to have much better lines of communication with state parties and better internal organization.

    I would say that I moved from the “no way” to the “undecided” column regarding his candidacy. I am still currently planning on voting NOTA on the first round, but if he is able to properly address concerns many will be raising at the convention that may change. Of course it could change into a vote for another candidate, but you never know! 🙂

  28. Joseph Buchman


    “I received a call from the Governor . . . he addressed my questions and I thought we had a very good discussion.”

    That kind of activity would move anyone in the direction of voting for him, and justly so.

    Now if he prepares for and ROCKS the Fox News Debate . . .

    But if not, if it looks like two Lee Wrights correcting basic libertarianism errors made by another former Republican (even a libertarian-leaning former Governor one), then I’d for one would like to have a less “electable,” less experienced, but far more articulate spokesperson.

    I’d also like to see a principled stand from the campaign regarding Oregon. At this point it’s about 3 years and 9 months too late — but a win in the debate, more posts from state chairs like the one above, and taking sides with those actually supported by the vast majority of libertarians (and Libertarians) in Oregon might see me become an enthusiastic supporter again (or at least moreso than I am now, if not what I was 4 years ago).

  29. Wes Wagner

    As of right now, Johnson is still listed on the fake LPO website as an attendee of the Johnson v Petersen debate

  30. Joseph Buchman

    The reported $51,000 spent on political advisers in February is a killer though.

    That needs to be 1) fully explicated (who got how much for what exactly) and 2) reasonable.

    I doubt it will prove reasonable, so I very much doubt 1 will happen.

  31. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    As of right now, Austin is announcing that it is still on. But as far as I know, it is not. Will post if I learn anything differently.

  32. Stewart Flood


    I assume that $51K expenditure in February is from the Johnson campaign? Is there any explanation of what it is and whether it is for a month or for multiple months? That’s the one bad thing about FEC reports. They go into incredible detail on some things, and are vague about others.

    What I thought was good about the conversation is that Johnson was willing to discuss it. Not all of his answers were perfect, but he was trying to explain and not just pull a “I’m the candidate, trust me!” attitude that you sometimes see from people.

    No, I haven’t put a Johnson bumper sticker on my car yet this time. Of course the one from 2012 is still on there. I think if I take it off, the Barr 08 sticker underneath it, and the Moultrie for Superintendent 06 under that then the back bumper may fall off.

  33. Joseph Buchman


    Its from another thread which I can’t find right this moment, but I cut and pasted this from it:

    “It’s like Johnson just can’t help himself — he’s already back to spending more than he takes in, and spending most of his money on “political consulting fees.” In February, he took in $56,265.15 and spent $60,371.14 — $51,500 of it on “political consulting fees.”

  34. Joseph Buchman

    Oregon PAC 16869, DBA as the “Libertarian Party of Oregon” IS promoting this on Facebook — including as recently as NOON TODAY.

    “Attend the ONLY Oregon and Washington presidential debate before the national convention in Orlando! Gov. Gary Johnson and Austin Petersen ARE CONFIRMED. THIS FRIDAY (note ALL CAPS in original), March 25 at 7PM at the Hillsboro Embassy Suites Hotel.”

    Looks like OPTION B from my earlier post — the anonymous source for this article was wrong/misinformed.

    See: https://www.facebook.com/Libertarian-Party-of-Oregon-117437244984733

  35. Joseph Buchman

    LOL The Facebook page for Oregon PAC 16869, DBA as the “Libertarian Party of Oregon” also features a guy who has endorsed TRUMP (yep, its Wayne Allyn Root!).

    Why would Johnson want to have anything to do with “pussys” like these?

    (I’ll bet Wes has an answer to that . . .)

  36. Jill Pyeatt

    LOL about Trump hiring Root. He’ll be too worried that people will mistake Root for himself.

    Posting the info about the debate is a serious misrepresentation if it’s not true. I’m really curious about this.

  37. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Due to the fact that the PAC and the Petersen campaign are still advertising and confirming this is going forward, I added a paragraph to the original piece and posted “unconfirmed” in the headline. I spoke to my original source off the record and confirmed the original article; however, written requests to the Johnson campaign have not yet been answered, so there is conflicting evidence.

  38. Michael H. Wilson

    From my long time relationship with the people involved in Oregon I think I can fairly say that I recognize this modus operandi.

  39. Joseph Buchman

    The apparent unwillingness or inability of the Gary Johnson campaign staff (worth $51,000 in fees in February) since early Friday afternoon to neither confirm nor deny the scheduled appearance of the Governor at an event which is now four days away is also . . .


    Tis a silly place . . .


  40. Richard P. Burke

    The opening paragraph of this article is in error. The Libertarian National Committee’s Executive Committee and the full LNC have voted on four occasions that the so-called “Wagner officers” and Wagner bylaws are not legitimate and that the “Reeves officers” and convention-approved bylaws are. These reolutions have never been rescinded.

    Finally in September 2015, and as clarified in January 2016, the Libertarian Party’s national Judicial Committee decided likewise and further decided that those officers succeeding the Reeves officers, and the 2013 bylaws as amended in covention are legitimate.

    It is also worth noting that the 2014 and 2012 national conventions seated the Reeves delegate configurations from Oregon and not the Wagner ones.

    The Wagner side holds ballot status only because the Secretary of State of Oregon would not depart from the status quo of 2011 when the Judicial Committee of that time deferred to them concerning status. The current national chair, on this basis, has continued to recognize the Wagner officers indefiance of the national.committee and the Judicial.committee in violation of bylaws which vest policy making power in the LNC, not the chair. With the new Judicial Committee ruling, this a could change. In any case, it is not truthful to say that the Reeves officers and their successors are not recognized by the LNC.

  41. Joseph Buchman

    The following is an exchange on the Facebook Page for Oregon PAC 16869, DBA as the “Libertarian Party of Oregon”

    The following was posted about an hour ago (10PM Eastern Time):

    Joe Buchman Can you tell me who with the Johnson campaign confirmed his appearance in Oregon on Friday? They are all denying it now, FYI. The statement from the campaign is that he will NOT be attending this event. Is that true?

    Libertarian Party of Oregon He’s participating, and so is Petersen. we have confirmations from both of their campaigns and we now have both of their flight itineraries. We are now lining up local media for them.

  42. Joseph Buchman

    At the same time neither OAI nor GJ2016 have any scheduled events for Oregon (or anywhere else) for this coming Friday.

    For March 12 to April 10th 2016 from: https://garyjohnson2016.com/events/

    Private Breakfast in Colorado Springs, Colorado with Gary Johnson
    Date- Sunday March 12, 2016
    Time- 7:30A-9AM
    Location- A Secret Upscale Restaurant
    Donate $500 to the Gary Johnson Campaign and you (as well as up to 2 additional diners of your choice) will be the guest of Gary Johnson for a Private Breakfast in Colorado Springs.
    First come, first serve. The donor will be notified of the dining location immediately upon donation.
    Contact Tom Mahon at tommahon@garyjohnson2016.com with any questions

    Afternoon Soiree In West Palm Beach Florida with Gary Johnson
    Date – Sunday April 10, 2016
    Time – 1P-3P
    Location – 1290 Glen Road, West Palm Beach, FL 33406.
    Donation- $10.00 in advance, $20.00 at the door.
    Meet and Greet with Gary Johnson at the home of Susan and Shane George.
    All questions can be directed to Tom Mahon at tommahon@garyjohnson2016.com .
    This event is being fully hosted (paid for) by the George Family.

    See: https://garyjohnson2016.com/events/

    The OAI page for Oregon does not appear to have been updated since April of 2015 and has no events scheduled.


  43. George Phillies


    Let us turn to a substantive question. Do you guys have plans to videotape or live stream the debate?

    Happy Spring!


  44. Wes Wagner

    Clearly Johnson is very excited about not going and wants everyone to know on his well managed (expensive) campaign precisely where he will not be by keeping his event page completely up to date.

  45. Joseph Buchman

    I like George’s question. I’d be willing to pay for a stream or archived podcast of just the audio of the debate, or video if you can manage it.

    I’d also put up an article about it with transcribed excerpts here.

    If you take any high-quality photos (better than what could be captured from stills of the video), that would be great too.

    Also links to any local media — I’d be happy to post those here as well as anything else that would be beneficial.



  46. Joseph Buchman

    From their Facebook page posted a few minutes ago:

    “They’re both coming. . . . we have written confirmations and re-confirmations from both the Johnson and Petersen campaigns via email. Both have bought airline tickets and we have their itineraries as of today. The rumour (sic) that Johnson and Petersen cancelled was both unfortunate and incorrect. The debate will be a public event, held apart from the LPO convention, to which anyone is welcome – regardless of faction – if they are “Honorary Lifetime” members, “Regular” dues-paying LPO members, or willing to pay the $25 charge to cover the room fee.”

  47. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Interesting. It certainly looks like he will be there. It seems that the difference is now that it is “apart from the LPO (PAC) convention” and that might have made the difference.

  48. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Updated headline to direct to comments for contradicting information to original information.

  49. Joseph Buchman

    “It seems that the difference is now that it is “apart from the LPO (PAC) convention” and that might have made the difference.”

    Has your source in the campaign confirmed that they are parsing it at this level?!? What a bunch of . . . well, let’s just call it a bunch of Johnson.

  50. Wes Wagner

    So what we have is a Johnson campaign that is too ashamed to advertise that they are going to provide political support for a group of people who have been trying to disenfranchise 17100 libertarians and had control of the LPO over to Oregon Republican Party vassalage, but not too ashamed to spend the money and to actually show up and play games to further sabotage the LP.


  51. Jill Pyeatt

    I never heard back from Mr. Johnson about my request for an interview at the CA convention, so I wrote again yesterday. If by chance I am granted an opportunity to ask him some questions and he does attend this debate in Oregon, I’ll definitely ask him about it.

    Who knows who he’s been talking to? Remember Scott Lieberman’s infamous email to forgo ballot access in order to make Wes Wagner look bad?

  52. Lars D. H. Hedbor

    I had a very productive conversation with the Johnson campaign today, and clarified a couple of things:

    – They don’t want to disappoint the folks who had planned to attend the “Libertarian” PAC’s meeting to see their candidate, so Johnson will be at their event.
    – Johnson is planning to participate fully in the Libertarian Party of Oregon’s normal primary process, including an additional press/event tour, details to be announced later.
    – Johnson will be staying over to join some of the leadership of the Libertarian Party of Oregon and friends for a brunch at 11:00 Saturday morning at the Village Inn Bridgeport in Tualatin.

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