Free Keene: Major Shakeup at Libertarian Party of NH: Darryl W Perry Elected Chairman!

darryl_perryIn 2012, Darryl W. Perry was frustrated with New Hampshire’s embarrassingly ineffective Libertarian Party and its unwillingness to promote the idea of New Hampshire declaring independence from the United States. He joined me and Conan Salada in founding a competitor to the Libertarian Party of NH, which we called the New Hampshire Liberty Party. Darryl has served a key role on our state executive committee ever since, running the yearly conventions and handling the member rolls, in addition to running for office.

This year, Darryl ran for the presidential nomination from the national Libertarian Party and sadly did not receive it, as the LP for years has been compromised on its principles. They proved it yet again with this year’s nomination of Gary Johnson, a former Republican – not a libertarian and definitely not a secessionist.

Darryl followed up his presidential run by launching a principled lobbying firm to focus on NH called Liberty Lobby, he’s lost over a hundred pounds in the last year or so, and just this weekend was unanimously elected to the position of chairman of the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire, ousting the previous no-show chairman who held the seat for years.

It’s a positive sign for the Libertarian Party of NH, which has been floundering for years. The LP of NH has long been a black mark on the otherwise vibrant libertarian community we have here in the Shire. Hopefully Darryl’s election to chair with Rodger Paxton, also a member of the NH Liberty Party, being newly elected to the LP’s vice-chair position will bode well for the future of the LP in New Hampshire. If we’re lucky, we’ll see them add a plank about NH independence into the LP of NH’s party platform in 2017.

Darryl has put in his resignation as a co-chair of the NH Liberty Party as a result of his election to the Libertarian Party chair role, as his time is already limited due to his many activist projects. I wish him the best. We’ll continue our role as New Hampshire’s only pro-secession political party, fielding candidates, and actively seek a new co-chair, though filling Darryl’s shoes is a tall order.

To join the New Hampshire Liberty Party, please fill out this form. You’ll need to agree with our party’s short and unchangeable platform. Unlike the Libertarian Party of NH, membership in the NH Liberty Party is free.

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About Caryn Ann Harlos

Caryn Ann Harlos is a paralegal residing in Castle Rock, Colorado and presently serving as the Region 1 Representative on the Libertarian National Committee and is a candidate for LNC Secretary at the 2018 Libertarian Party Convention. Articles posted should NOT be considered the opinions of the LNC nor always those of Caryn Ann Harlos personally. Caryn Ann's goal is to provide information on items of interest and (sometimes) controversy about the Libertarian Party and minor parties in general not to necessarily endorse the contents.

91 thoughts on “Free Keene: Major Shakeup at Libertarian Party of NH: Darryl W Perry Elected Chairman!

  1. Tony From Long Island

    You can’t be serious? Every time Creepy Perry gets taken seriously, the LP as a whole does not.

    Secessionists? Give me a break. I thought the delusional LP is a thing of the past. I guess not.

    So, the LP of NH has been a “black mark?” This makes it better? During the year the LP tries to have it taken seriously, this crap?

    This is a positive sign? According to the extremely tiny group of anarchists . . .

    Here’s a quote for this delusional “press release:” ” . . . . . . . the LP for years has been compromised on its principles. They proved it yet again with this year’s nomination of Gary Johnson, a former Republican – not a libertarian and definitely not a secessionist. . . . . ”

    First . . . Gary Johnson IS a Libertarian. Been a party member for quite a while. He’s just not an anarchist – thankfully. Second, is Gary Johnson a secessionist? Umm no. And neither are the other 99.9999999% of Americans.

    One step forward – 45 steps back….. I laugh now when I thought 15 years ago I should move to New Hampshire . . . now? Hell no!

    This is more embarrassing than Tramp’s performance last night

  2. AMcCarrick

    And the LP starts its inevitable crumble. It’s now more viable to elect a Lib in Vermont, New York, and California than New Hampshire.

  3. dL

    “Second, is Gary Johnson a secessionist? Umm no. And neither are the other 99.9999999% of Americans.”

    99.9999999% of Americans would be 1 out of a billion. 1 billion exceeds by a factor of roughly 2, the total number of Americans over the 240 year history. There has been more than one. There is more than one today. Vermont has a progressive secessionist movement. Obviously, Texas has one.

  4. Massimo

    This is very interesting and best of luck to all of you. I wonder why there is no mention of the free staters and of Carla Gericke new sececcionist group, though. How is the relationship between the two local libertarian parties and the free staters? And what about the actual moving of the free staters? Is the pledge being implemented? Thanks

  5. Tony From Long Island

    DL said ” . . . . “Second, is Gary Johnson a secessionist? Umm no. And neither are the other 99.9999999% of Americans.”

    99.9999999% of Americans would be 1 out of a billion. 1 billion exceeds by a factor of roughly 2, the total number of Americans over the 240 year history. There has been more than one. There is more than one today. Vermont has a progressive secessionist movement. Obviously, Texas has one. . . . . ”

    Really? what math have you taken? The US population is approximately 350 (just a guess). So what is 99.9999999999% of that be? A handful at most. I have no idea what you are talking about! In the history of the country? No. Right now!

  6. Anthony Dlugos

    I’m with Tony. What a joke. And I mean that literally.

    “Gary Johnson is definitely not a secessionist” has to be the funniest thing I’ve read since the Trump economic plan.

  7. Tony From Long Island

    Trump has an economic plan? Which one? The one he tried to come up with himself a year ago? Or the one the republicans force fed him? Either way, the rich benefit.

  8. George Phillies

    For those less familiar with NH politics, this document is clearly a release from the New Hampshire Liberty Party, saying nice things about their (former) chair and putting up the flag for their positions.

    Congratulations to Darryl Perry, who will give the LPNH a state chair who can actually be reached and who will actually do things.

  9. Tony From Long Island

    Do nice things? Do you include advocating for secession as one of those “nice” things?

  10. George Phillies

    I realize that it is difficult to parse long sentences but

    It’s a positive sign for the Libertarian Party of NH, which has been floundering for years. Hopefully Darryl’s election to chair with Rodger Paxton, also a member of the NH Liberty Party, being newly elected to the LP’s vice-chair position will bode well for the future of the LP in New Hampshire. … filling Darryl’s shoes is a tall order.

    are saying nice things about Darryl.

    If we’re lucky, we’ll see them add a plank about NH independence into the LP of NH’s party platform in 2017. We’ll continue our role as New Hampshire’s only pro-secession political party

    are plumping for their positions.

    Readers who saw videos of the Florida debate will recall that Perry called Johnson on his massive 2012 campaign debts, and will note his supporters are still annoyed about it.

  11. Tony From Long Island

    There was a lot more to be annoyed about regarding Perry than calling Johnson on his debt, namely just about everything else he said.

    If they are BENT ON BECOME MORE IRRELEVENT they will add a plank on NH independence.

  12. Dave

    So Mr. Perry was elected as the chair of the NH LP while being a member of a splinter party? Um… why even have the Liberty party now? If they have enough influence among the LP to get their guys elected as both chair and vice chair, is their really a need for the party?

  13. Rebel Alliance

    This is very good news. Perry is a motivated activist. Tomasso did nothing while he was chair, except letting the LPNH atrophy despite NH being the only state with an influx of experienced libertarian activists from across the nation due to the FSP. Hopefully Perry and Paxton will figure out how to do something with that.

  14. Tony From Long Island

    One can be a very motivated activist, but if what that activist is advocating for is ridiculous and not wanted by anyone, it doesn’t matter how motivated you are.

    You can also be very motivated but have terrible communication skills. You can check that off on the list of Mr. Perry’s attributes.

  15. Massimo

    Tony, I really do not understand your acrimony against secession. I assume that any libertarian agrees that the exit, or the possible recourse to it, is much more effective than the voice in disputes resolution.

    Secession is a natural corollary of the right of association.

    And again, I would love to know more about what is happening with the FSs from the perspective of the people involved in the libertarian party (or the two libertarian parties).

  16. Chuck Moulton

    Tony From Long Island wrote:

    Second, is Gary Johnson a secessionist? Umm no. And neither are the other 99.9999999% of Americans.

    DL wrote:

    99.9999999% of Americans would be 1 out of a billion. 1 billion exceeds by a factor of roughly 2, the total number of Americans over the 240 year history. There has been more than one. There is more than one today. Vermont has a progressive secessionist movement. Obviously, Texas has one. . . . .

    Tony From Long Island wrote:

    Really? what math have you taken? The US population is approximately 350 (just a guess). So what is 99.9999999999% of that be? A handful at most. I have no idea what you are talking about! In the history of the country? No. Right now!

    The LP Mathematical Caucus has convened a special meeting (its second ever!) to address this matter and issued the following resolution:

    Whereas Tony asserts 99.9999999% of Americans = 999,999,999/1,000,000,000 Americans do not support secession; and

    Whereas, logically that claim would be false if more than 1/1,000,000,000 Americans = 1 out of 1 billion Americans do support secession; and

    Whereas, the total current population of the United States is 325 million; and

    Whereas, the total number of people who have ever lived in the United States through the entire history of the country is roughly 545 million; and

    Whereas, at least 1 person currently living in the United States favors secession — namely, Ian Freeman (real name Ian Bernard): the fellow who wrote that NH Liberty Party press release; and

    Whereas, 1 / 325 million > 1 / 1 billion; and

    Whereas, 1 / 545 million > 1 / 1 billion; and

    Whereas, we do not need to take a position on whether secession is a libertarian position or a mainstream position; and

    Whereas, Tony’s assertion is therefore WRONG in a positive sense (without any normative value judgments) using 5th grade math; therefore,

    Be it resolved, the LP Mathematics Caucus condemns Tony From Long Island in the strongest sense for his egregious mathematical error and his failure to own up to it when it was explicitly pointed out by DL; and

    Be it resolved, the LP Mathematics Caucus commends DL for his astute observations, keen mathematical abilities, and timely correction of Tony From Long Island’s egregious mathematical error.

    This resolution is free from any copyright restrictions. LP members and other concerned citizens may feel free to share it far and wide with your friends, family, local newspapers, or elected officials in whole or in part with or without attribution.

    This was the second special meeting of the LP Mathematical Caucus. The minutes of our first special meeting are available here.

  17. Tony From Long Island

    wow.. we are all super nerds on here aren’t we?

    so are you telling me now that 99 is not 99% of 100?

    Wow . . . as I slowly drift further and further away from the smarmy horde of discontented complainers.

  18. George Phillies

    For the curious, the actual report from Free Keene appeared here

    http://freekeene.com/2016/09/25/major-shakeup-at-libertarian-party-of-nh-darryl-w-perry-elected-chairman/

    The LPNH actually has a somewhat larger state committee than reported in the article, not to mention a Judicial Committee, so there may be more election news incoming from them. Readers will note that the LPNH has traditionally had state conventions in the Fall, so their state committee elections are now back on schedule after a delay.

  19. Tony From Long Island

    how about if I say that 0.0000001 % of American currently living support secession? Would that pass muster with the LP Mathematical Caucus?

  20. Chuck Moulton

    The LP Typo Caucus has issued the following resolution:

    Whereas, in his previous comment Chuck Moulton twice referred to the entity as the LP Mathematical Caucus and twice referred to the entity as the LP Mathematics Caucus; and

    Whereas, one of those two names is clearly a typo; therefore,

    Be it resolved, Chuck Moulton ought to double-check what he wrote before hitting “submit” on a comment.

  21. Chuck Moulton

    Tony From Long Island wrote:

    wow.. we are all super nerds on here aren’t we?

    Yes.

    Tony From Long Island wrote:

    so are you telling me now that 99 is not 99% of 100?

    No, I am saying that 99% is different from 99.9999999%.

    Tony From Long Island wrote:

    how about if I say that 0.0000001 % of American currently living support secession? Would that pass muster with the LP Mathematical Caucus?

    I won’t comment on the veracity of that statistic. But I will say that:

    0.0000001% = 1/10,000,000 = 1 out of 10 million

  22. Be Rational

    Tony, you exaggerated to make a point. Just admit it. Many people do it.

    If you had said that for 99% of all Americans aren’t interested in secession as an issue, then without some polling to prove otherwise, that would seem quite likely.

    1% of 325 million Americans would be 3.25 million Americans, and I doubt that many Americans are interested in Secession.

    It was that .9999999 was objected to. To me it was one of those obvious exaggerations made in an instant that isn’t worth attacking or defending.

    *
    One of my favorite exaggeration stories:

    In 1972, following their nominations for P and VP at the Democratic convention, it was revealed that Senator Eagleton had undergone shock treatment in the past. When asked, Senator McGovern stated that he was behind Eagleton 1000%. A short time later, as the controversy grew, he was again asked about his support for keeping Eagleton on the ticket, to which McGovern replied that he was behind Eagleton 300%. A commentator then retorted that McGovern’s support for his running mate had fallen 700%.

    Eventually Eagleton withdrew and was replaced by Sargent Shriver.

    (McGovern should have stuck with 100% each time, since more than 100% isn’t possible.)

  23. Be Rational

    I won’t comment on the veracity of that statistic. But I will say that:
    0.0000001% = 1/10,000,000 = 1 out of 10 million – CM

    *
    Nope.
    0.0000001%= 1/1,000,000,000= 1 out of 1 billion

  24. Tony From Long Island

    Of course I exaggerated to make a (valid) point. Obviously I don’t know the exact number of secessionists in the country, nor do I know the exact population (which changes by the minute)

    What does Generalissimo Trump call it? “Truthful Hyperbole?”

    I never say “110%” though, as in “he gave 110% but still fell short . . . ” I hate that.

    I include myself in the super nerd category, but I am more a star trek, star wars, wrestling nerd than a math nerd (obviously)

  25. Chuck Moulton

    Chuck Moulton wrote:

    I won’t comment on the veracity of that statistic. But I will say that:
    0.0000001% = 1/10,000,000 = 1 out of 10 million

    Be Rational wrote:

    Nope.
    0.0000001%= 1/1,000,000,000= 1 out of 1 billion

    His original number was 1 out of a billion. His revised number (quoted there) was 1 out of 10 million. Check your math.

  26. mARS

    Better hide your podiums, New Hampshire, or Darryl will punch them while screaming on national television.

  27. George Dance

    Massimo: “Tony, I really do not understand your acrimony against secession. I assume that any libertarian agrees that the exit, or the possible recourse to it, is much more effective than the voice in disputes resolution.
    “Secession is a natural corollary of the right of association.”

    The problem with secession is that it cannot be implemented without a logical contradiction.

    The principle behind secession is that “No person shall be part of a political unit to which they have not consented.”

    But in practice (where secession of a smaller political unit from a larger one is done by majority vote in the smaller), it adds (respecting the minority in that vote), “… except for them.”

    As for your question about what’s happening in the FSP: I’d suggest using the link Mr. Phillies provided, and bookmarking Free Keene. Regardless of its political slant, it’s probably the best source of news.

    (There’s also a website called Stop Free Keene; but I don’t read that one, so I don’t know how good it is.)

  28. George Dance

    George Phillies: “Congratulations to Darryl Perry, who will give the LPNH a state chair who can actually be reached and who will actually do things.”

    Indeed. If Darryl stays as chair for that long, Mr. Phillies may get the Libertarian ballot line in New Hampshire again in 2020.

  29. Caryn Ann Harlos

    I hold to the right of secession of people and groups. It is the logical outworking of libertarianism. The Florida Libertarian Party has a great secession plank. As does California IIRC.

  30. Caryn Ann Harlos

    And congratulations to Darryl. I look forward to a productive and vibrant New Hampshire party.

  31. Rebel Alliance

    Tony, if you’re so against anyone exercising their right to secession, then do you not celebrate Independence Day on the 4th of July? Is this a terrible day for you? Instead of allowing secession, do you believe it better to require obedience to a tyrannical government?

    Maybe the place for you isn’t the Libertarian Party, but the Royalist Party (http://royalistpartyusa.wixsite.com/-royalist-party-usa).

  32. Deran

    And this is why the Libertarian Party will never get elected to major offices. And I repeat my comparison between these sorts of Libertarians and Maoists on the US Left.

    So selfdestructive. You might as well elect Mr Milnes or that sadsack NN.

  33. Caryn Ann Harlos

    I know, how dare me take a libertarian position on not being forced into associations. I am sure the LP of Fla and LP of CA are grateful for this sage advice telling them what they should believe.

  34. D. Thomas

    Kudos to Mr. Perry. I hope this brings more libertarians in NH together, from the LPNH, the NH Liberty Party, and others outside of these parties. I am also for truly free association. Smaller government is always better than larger government.

  35. dL

    “Really? what math have you taken? The US population is approximately 350 (just a guess). So what is 99.9999999999% of that be? A handful at most. I have no idea what you are talking about! In the history of the country? No. Right now!”

    BS, Math. Advanced calculus would be the highest credited undergraduate course I’ve taken.

    And you added three more significant digits, there. 99.9999999999% would be 1 out of 1 trillion to the contrary(or 999,999,999,999 out of 1 trillion in agreement). It makes no sense to say 99.99999% of 10 people(the correct percentage would be 9 out of 10, or 90%). You add significant digits to your percentage, you have to increase the order of magnitude of your population sample accordingly to arrive at any meaningful divisibility.

    Yes, 300 million people currently live in the US. The population currently alive comprises roughly half the total historical US population, making the the original 1 billion figure required for your nonsense exaggeration a little less than a factor of two of the historical population. Geometric growth is a fascinating thing, isn’t it?

  36. dL

    “You’re right. I’m wrong. My bad.

    I confused 0.0000001% with 0.0000001.

    … which makes me as stupid as the Verizon math fail.’

    nah…the stupidity is people tossing up significant digit accuracy in percentages when claiming some level of agreement among humans.

  37. Andy

    This is an excellent development. I know Darryl W. Perry, and newly elected Libertarian Party of New Hampshire Vice Chairman, Rodger Paxton. Both of these guys are hardcore Libertarians, and they are both go getters, as in they are not the type to sit back and rest on their laurels and watch the party flounder or go downhill.

    Rodger Paxton is for the former Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Arkansas, and he, along with his wife, Jessica, who also served as Chairwoman of the LP of Arkansas, are the people who are most responsible for taking the Libertarian Party of Arkansas from being one of the smallest, and least active LP affiliates in the nation, to becoming one of the fastest growing and most active LP state affiliates in the nation. Prior to the Paxtons getting involved in LP of Arkansas leadership, the LP of Arkansas hardly had any candidates for anything, and they had never elected anyone to anything. When Rodger Paxton became the Chairman of the state party, he said that he did not want to be the Chair of a dormant organization, and he immediately went to work on obtaining ballot access, and then on recruiting candidates. The LP of Arkansas actually elected people to office for the first time in the party’s history, as they elected two Constables and a few people to city council seats. They also ran more candidates than the party had ever run before in Arkansas, and votes for Libertarian Party candidates in Arkansas went up dramatically, as did attendance at meetings, membership, and fundraising. Rodger decided to move to New Hampshire last year to take part in the Free State Project, and with him getting involved in LP leadership in New Hampshire, I think that he could play a big role in turning the LP of New Hampshire into a more successful organization just like he did in Arkansas.

    I voted for Darryl W. Perry to be the Libertarian Party’s candidate for President this year at the LP national convention in Orlando. Unfortunately, Perry did not win and Gary Johnson became the nominee again. Even so, Perry is a fireball of libertarian activism, so I’d look for good things to happen for the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire under his leadership.

    It has been rather ironic that New Hampshire is the home of the Free State Project, yet the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire has been stagnating and and sinking for the last several years. Back in the 1990’s, the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire elected 4 people to the state legislature, but the LP of New Hampshire went downhill in the early 2000s. I expect the team of Perry & Paxton to pump some new life into the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire.

  38. George Phillies

    The most important point to remember about Perry, other than he is personally a nice guy, is that he has served for at least the last year on the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire State Committee as Secretary, and during that time he was the only State Committee officer who would respond to inquiries in a timely way. Without his responses, it is unlikely that New Hampshire would have joined the New England-New York-New Jersey region this year.

    One of our party’s challenges is the tendency to attack state party officers having non-ideological posts over theological disputes within the libertarian political movement. If Perry and successors recruit candidates, supporters, volunteers, money. etc., that is all good. Ballot access in New Hampshire would benefit from effective campaigns for certain statewide offices. Indeed, there was a good chance a few years ago, when the Republicans ran a far right antiabortionist, but he had to be challenged on that issue and he was not.

  39. langa

    The problem with secession is that it cannot be implemented without a logical contradiction.

    Wrong.

    The principle behind secession is that “No person shall be part of a political unit to which they have not consented.”

    Correct.

    But in practice (where secession of a smaller political unit from a larger one is done by majority vote in the smaller), it adds (respecting the minority in that vote), “… except for them.”

    This in no way proves that secession is a flawed principle. It merely proves that (like most sound principles) it is often applied inconsistently. If the principle is consistently applied, the minority could choose to secede from the smaller unit (and others could choose to secede from that new, even smaller unit, and so forth).

  40. langa

    Tony, I really do not understand your acrimony against secession.

    Tony appears to be one of those people who instantly recoils in horror from any idea that is not endorsed by the talking heads on the cable news.

  41. Rebel Alliance

    Looks like the troll Tony From Long Island is quick to go on the attack, then just as quick to go hide back in the shadows when REAL libertarians reassert control over the LIBERTARIAN party! What has TFLI ever done for the movement? Absolutely nothing, that’s what. And that’s precisely what his opinion is worth.

  42. Tony From Long Island

    Again I am a troll. Why? Because I am not an anarchist? Trolls are anonymous people who constantly attack people and write offensive stuff all the time. Troll post crap like “Obama is a racist mulim” “Killary for Prison” “Ted Cruz’s father killed JFK” and other useless garbage.

    I only attack Andy – because he is an embarrassment of a human being. Other than that, I have shown what I look like. I don’t use my full name but I live in West Islip on Long Island.

    I don’t write offensive stuff. I generally stay on topic, but I am not a purist Libertarian or an anarchist. Anyone who disagrees with people is a troll?

    I have some moderate libertarian views and I used to be a dues paying LP member. I guess that makes me a troll. Get real . . .

  43. Don Wills

    No Tony, you are not a troll. You are engaged in the long-running civil war within the GOP, which is causing you to be attacked by the opposition. You happen to be the Yankee; Darryl Perry is the Confederate. Until one of the two warring parties obliterates the other and throws them out of the party, the LP will continue to be a pointless exercise in naval gazing. This multi-decade war without resolution is why I left the LP.

    Maybe the LP needs to implement a secession plank as its litmus test. Something like –

    “It is the right of a sovereign state to declare independence from entangling alliances and unions.”

    and those who disagree should leave the party and go form their own “moderate” constitutionalist party – maybe you can call it The Loyalist Party.

  44. Tony From Long Island

    Umm, , GOP? I have never and will never be even remotely connected with the Republican Party. I have voted fro one single republican in my life – Rick Lazio over Hillary for senate in 2000 and I regret that.

    He was a moderate and from my town.

    Oh yeah . . . .for the guy who asked if I celebrate the 4th of July if I am opposed to secession . . . give me a break! Do you celebrate “Fort Sumpter Day?”

  45. Don Wills

    Tony –

    Losers in wars of secession don’t get to write history or celebrate a Day of Independence.

    And no, I was not referring to the GOP.

    IMO, you have four courses of action WRT the LP:

    1. Throw out the anarchists and get rid of the pledge and devotion to the NAP.
    2. Leave and form your own moderate libertarian party/PAC/whatever.
    3. Maintain the status quo of the LP (i.e. stay irrelevant).
    4. Quit the LP a do something that might make a difference for future generations.

  46. Tony From Long Island

    I am no longer a dues paying member. I have been a registered Democrat since I was 18, but for about 15 or so years I was in the LP. I voted for Marrou, Browne (in 2000), Badnarik and Johnson in 2012.

    As of today I am still voting for Johnson – I have the luxury because I live in New York and there is no danger of that demagogue Generalissimo Trump winning here.

  47. Richard Winger

    Darryl Perry is very attentive to the New Hampshire legislature on matters of importance to liberty. I have seen him get good election bills introduced. Darryl is very knowledgeable and very motivated.

  48. Tony From Long Island

    I will take your word as you know him better than I (which is not at all) but the more the LP swings toward the anarchist side of the pendulum, the more credibility it loses to be taken seriously

  49. Caryn Ann Harlos

    The LP is just as anarchist as it ever was… perhaps a tad bit more now, but it is always within a certain percentage.

    I am an anarchist and proudly and openly so.

  50. Anthony Dlugos

    “The LP is just as anarchist as it ever was… perhaps a tad bit more now, but it is always within a certain percentage.”

    I don’t disagree with that, although I think the most accurate assessment about it ends at “was.”

  51. Anthony Dlugos

    Not disagreeing, but I’d be interested in what the data would show. It might show the “tad” you’re talking about, and I would not be surprised or disappointed.

  52. Caryn Ann Harlos

    And that could be because there are simply more Libertarians. As Knapp observed, the LP is great at taking a small government constitutionalist and turning them into an anarchist in short order.

  53. Don Wills

    Caryn Ann –

    You wrote – “The LP is just as anarchist as it ever was…”

    Huh?? Are you saying it wasn’t really ever anarchist? Or that it really is still anarchist?

    If you are saying the LP isn’t anarchist, what in the world is the pledge for? So that all non-anarchists have to lie to become members? Or is it kind of a wink of the eye that all know is just bs? Talk about fraudulent!

    For the last 12 years, the LP has nominated Bob Barr and Gary Johnson as their standard bearers, and just for the hell of it nominated a quasi-statist, anti-gun, nanny-state-loving technocrat for Veep this time around. The reality of the contemporary LP does not comport with your statement if it was trying to communicate that the LP *is* anarchist.

  54. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    I am saying anarchists have always been a significant minority and remain so, about the same as it always has been with some ups and downs.

    The Pledge isn’t an anarchist pledge however.

    I am part of an anarchist minority that has always existed.

  55. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    This is an odd thread. First we go down a math rabbit trail, and now my perfectly clear and uncontroversial statement is causing a dust up.

    There were anarchists in the party from the beginning. There are still anarchists. Averaged out, we might be slighter higher today. I am part of that. That’s it.

  56. Matt Cholko

    I am no expert on party history. But, my sense is that the party is in a place right now where anarchist is not considered as dirty a word as it once was. I don’t know that that has anything to do with there being a difference in the percentage of anarchists. I just know that relative to a decade ago, people don’t seem to fly off the handle at the mere mention of the word as often as they used to.

    Then again, it’s very possible that my perception has more to do with the company I keep within the party, than it is a reflection of the whole of the membership.

  57. Don Wills

    Caryn Ann –

    This disagreement is at the heart of the LP civil war:

    Does the NAP (and pledge) mean that it is immoral to collect taxes?

    My answer is yes. Which means no taxes. Period. (The phrase voluntary tax is an oxymoron.) Without the ability of a government to collect taxes (of any kind whatsoever: fees, tariffs, etc.), that government cannot exist. The absence of government is anarchy. QED.

    Anthony – what makes you believe your statement – “#1 is all but inevitable…” (#1 means the pledge and NAP are tossed out) has any chance of happening in the next decade?

  58. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    You apparently wish to argue. Not particularly interested.

    The pledge isn’t our platform. It is more logical to point to the Statement of Principles. The Statement of Principles rules out any coercive taxation. That does not require anarchy. And there can even be government in anarchy. Just not a state.

    You obviously have a hobby horse. One I am not particularly interested in riding.

  59. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    And no, #1 isn’t inevitable. That is just stupid (and yes I put it as harshly as that). Is a Party split coming? Perhaps. And it is the side of the split that sticks with the anarchists that will be the one that sticks to libertarianism. I’m not interested in Republican lite or statism.

    The LP =/= libertarianism. I am not worried about libertarianism… and that is where my interest is. If the LP turns statist, there will be another movement of libertarianism. However, I find the party split to be more likely a segment leaving the LP an some of its asserts/groups and starting something else rather than a “purge” that requires the purged to start something else.

    The SoP makes it impossible, and if the LP by some impossible stratagem loses the SoP it is no longer the LP.

  60. robert capozzi

    cah: The SoP makes it impossible, and if the LP by some impossible stratagem loses the SoP it is no longer the LP.

    me: Seems profoundly false. IIRC, the LP’s bylaws allow for deleting the SoP, if the 89 20-something’s 7/8ths hurdle being reached in convention to deep-six the SoP.

    Did you mean to say you would not like it if the SoP were deleted? Yours seems like a factually inaccurate statement as it stands.

  61. Marc Montoni

    Anyone — who says there are “vanishingly few” people who are interested in secession as a political solution — is waving a flag of complete ignorance.

    If you think that no one thinks about secession, it’s only because YOU haven’t asked anyone about it.

    There are literally millions of Americans who have considered secession issues and understand it is often a good solution for intractable problems..

    I wrote about it previously..

    The same article also showed up here on IPR..

  62. Anthony Dlugos

    Don,

    I should revise my comment a little…let me put it this way…the pressure to win is going to be more powerful than the pledge, the platform, the NAP, the SoP, whatever. And I don’t think that’s at all unusual for a political party.

    This process was set in motion the day the party was formed. The worst the two major parties get, the more members they lose, the more the LP is gonna get drawn towards attracting those voters like iron filings and a magnet,. Its just organizational behavior, really.

  63. Just Some Random Guy

    @ Rebel Alliance

    Tony, if you’re so against anyone exercising their right to secession, then do you not celebrate Independence Day on the 4th of July? Is this a terrible day for you? Instead of allowing secession, do you believe it better to require obedience to a tyrannical government?

    I am not Tony, but I would like to point out there are pretty big differences between a colony seceding from the mother country versus a state seceding. Though I think Tony’s larger point was less about what constitutes a right of secession (for the record, no matter how much people may wax philosophical about it, what determines if you have the right of secession is only established retroactively when it’s discovered whether you pulled it off or not) and more about how actual advocation of secession is such a fringe position that you’re not going to make the general public take you seriously if you’re advocating it.

    Maybe the place for you isn’t the Libertarian Party, but the Royalist Party (http://royalistpartyusa.wixsite.com/-royalist-party-usa).

    Hard to join a party that doesn’t exist. It’s not a real party, it’s just a website. If you’re not running people for office, even if it’s just a hopeless race, you’re not a political party. But even ignoring all that, the site doesn’t seem to have been updated for over a year, so even if it was a political party, it’s defunct now. Might as well suggest someone join the Bull Moose Party.

  64. Anthony Dlugos

    As an aside, Don, I definitely don’t want the anarchists thrown out. I hope they stay. At least one will.

    Me.

  65. Bondurant

    This country is too large and bureaucratic to meet the needs of Americans. Most that are eligible don’t vote because they know our democracy is smoke and mirrors. I welcome any state(s) to succeed if her inhabitants so desire.

  66. Caryn Ann Harlos

    As I said, if there is a split I see it splitting another way. With the aggressionists founding something new. If the Party was divested of its embedded principles, I would have zero interest in it. And neither would it be libertarian any longer.

    But as I said. I find the chances of that pretty much nil. It was set up to implode first.

  67. Caryn Ann Harlos

    I too think the secessionist movement will grow. I believe in it though it isn’t my “issue” since most people are referring to states. I find a small state just as objectionable as a large one. My secessionist belief is a belief in personal secession.

  68. George Phillies

    Readers interested in this way off topic comment might note that the modern word is “partition”, which in several cases, for example Czechoslovakia, turned out adequately well.

    The first mention I recall for this for the Untied States, going back a considerable number of years, was in a NYTimes Section 4, the writer suggesting in a significantly less partisan time that red and blue America were so different that they might be better off as two countries. The perspective was surprising, coming from a conventional writer in an establishment news source.

    I do not view partition as a positive outcome, but I am not sure that there are any.

  69. Don Wills

    Caryn Ann –

    You wrote – “The Statement of Principles rules out any coercive taxation”.

    Is there any other kind? Why the adjective “coercive” if it adds nothing to the meaning?

  70. Andy

    The point of this article should not be that an anarchist Libertarians were elected as Chairman and Vice Chairman of the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire, but rather that two Libertarians who have records of being DOERS got elected as Chairman and Vice Chairman of the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire in Darryl W. Perry and Rodger Paxton.

    The fact of the matter is that the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire has been in bad shape for a long time due to a lack of activity, and a lack of vision. I have heard that the previous State Chairman had a problem with answering the phone and returning phone calls in a timely manner.

    Darryl W. Perry has a record for being a pretty gung ho activist. He regularly lobbies the New Hampshire State Legislature and has done so for several years. Rodger Paxton is the person most responsible for transforming the Libertarian Party of Arkansas to being one of the smallest, and least active Libertarian Party affiliates in the nation, to becoming one of the fastest growing and most active LP affiliates in the nation.

    If Perry and Paxton were both constitutionalist Libertarians it would not make that much of a difference from the perspective of their willingness to engage in activism and to take the necessary steps to build a bigger, better, and more successful party.

  71. Andy

    “for transforming the Libertarian Party of Arkansas to being one of the smallest,”

    Should read, “for transforming the Libertarian Party of Arkansas from being one of the smallest…”

  72. robert capozzi

    Cah: If the Party was divested of its embedded principles, I would have zero interest in it. And neither would it be libertarian any longer.

    Me: Thank you. Previously you said deleting the NAP was “impossible,” now you acknowledge that it’s possible, but of no interest to you IF the NAP were to be deleted. I would also hope that you would be truthful and acknowledge that a NAP-less LP would not be “L any longer” according to YOUR definition of L-ism. A NAP-less LP that advocated lessarchy, or a reduction in the net incidence of coercion, would fit many people’s definition of L, just not yours and other dogmatic NAPsters.

    Follow truth wherever it leads, I say. Deny the false seems the most practical course of action.

    Separately, I note that “secession” does not appear in the current LP platform. I’m proud to say I had a hand in changing “secession” to “self-determination.” “Secession” associates for many with the Confederate Elite Insurrection, also known as the Civil War. That war was in part motivated by many of the CSA states explicitly desiring to maintain slavery.

    Why some Ls want to associate with that ugliness remains a mystery to me. Advocating “secession” in 2016 amounts to a gigantic rhetorical “kick me” sign.

  73. George Phillies

    Andy at 00:50 got this one completely right. The important issue is that the new people have a record of getting things done, a record that will hopefully continue.

  74. Marc Montoni

    That anarchists are often the ones who get things done is not at all unusual.

    Even though anarchists may think the LP’s presidential candidates often stink, it’s not the Shiny Object minarchists (who show up for one day to vote for them at the national convention) who do an outsized fraction of the petitioning.

    Opportunists (minarchists) don’t give a damn about our concerns but they’re good enough at allowing us to work our butts off right after telling us to pound sand. If we ever organized a thorough strike, they’d find themselves falling off a lot more ballots.

  75. George Phillies

    Claims that Perry is not wanted seem inconsistent with the observation that he was elected State Chair.

  76. George Phillies

    On the other hand, at this point my State Association has a new State Committee and State Chair, not me as I did not run for re-election, and in the hypothetical case that Johnson breaks 3% of the vote, we will also have a separate group designated to become the Political Party State Committee.

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