By George Phillies
Our financial investigations have indicated how the Libertarian Party of Ohio was able to expand its membership so dramatically last year.
At the end of September 2013, Ohio had 665 active national party members, according to the monthly report from the LNC staff to the National Committee. At the end of October 2013, Ohio had 729 active national party members, and by the end of December Ohio had 1071 active national party members, these counts all being Bylaws Sustaining Members as defined in the party by-laws. An increase of 406 memberships would cost $10,150.
That’s really remarkable. How did Ohio add 406 members, an increase of close to 60%, in a period in which the general National Party membership was entirely very nearly stable?
To understand this, we go to the Ohio state party financial filings. They file twice, for Federal Funds with the FEC and for non-Federal Funds with the Ohio Secretary of State. The LPOH 2013 post-general filing, filed on 12/10/2013, shows that for that period the LPOH started with $1977.35, had income of $4222.80, and spent $13188.08. The game between starting cash, income, and spending was covered by a $10,000 loan dated 10/25/2013.
The loan was from Aaron Starr.
Starting the day before the loan was recorded, the LPOH began sending large sums of money to the Libertarian Party National for memberships:
- $275 for 11 memberships on 10/24/2013
- $875 for 35 memberships on 10/30/2013
- $1175 for 47 memberships on 11/15/2013
- $3125 for 125 memberships on 11/15/2013
- $875 for 35 memberships on 11/19/2013
- $3375 for 135 memberships on 11/26/2013 (one of these was listed separately)
- $150 for 6 memberships at the start of December
That’s a total of $9850 for memberships. In the prior four month period, the account paid for 22 memberships, all in October 2013. In the next five months, the account paid for 6 national party memberships.
In other words, Mr. Starr’s loan covered the 400 extra members, thereby appreciably increasing the Ohio delegate total at the National Convention.
Now we come to the anomalies in the LNC side of the issue.
First, the money for these memberships came from the Ohio non-Federal account, not from the Ohio FEC-filing account. That’s not allowed. To transfer money to the LNC from the Ohio Party, the money had to come out of the Ohio Party Federal account. It did not.
Second, the LNC did not disclose that it had received these funds from the Ohio Party. At least six of those transfers were individually over $200, and the total is well over $200, so entries showing transfers from the LP Ohio should surely appear. It does not.
You can go through the LNC FEC filings yourself, and there are no entries showing transfers from the LP of Ohio. That money left Ohio, approximately the right number of extra memberships appear in the LNC records for Ohio, but there is no sign of the LNC receiving the money.
Third, we can be entirely certain that the LP of Ohio was not simply transferring Federal dues money it had received from individual donors. The LP Ohio started the October-December filing period with under $2000, enough for fewer than 40 people, and in that period it received donations from only 65 people, one of whom being Nancy Neale.
There’s no two ways about it. Aaron Starr lent the LP of Ohio $10,000. LP of Ohio was then able to pay for an extra 400 national party sustaining memberships from Ohio. Their delegate account was substantially increased.
In addition, if you believe that these funds were actually collected from the renewing members*, and simply forwarded by the LPOH, a further issue arises. The LPOH received in the words of the FEC designations or other means of recognizing that a certain amount of money has been raised , namely they got extra delegates. The dues payments are therefore bundled contributions, requiring the LNC to determine if the donation amounts crossed the bundling threshold.
*Our sources advise us that the memberships were renewals, made in at least some cases without the consent or approval of the person whose membership was renewed.
The Ohio Federal filings are at fec.gov. The Ohio state filings are at http://www2.sos.state.oh.us. The Committee name is Libertarian Party of Ohio.
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This article was originally presented as a comment on Facebook.
You may not be far from correct.
At the pace the LP is going with NOTA, it will surely win because NOBODY will be running for the LNC. The qualified people will be running for the EXITS. LOL
Seconded.
Some states have ballot access. Others rely on national to help them win it over and over again. I’m in of the latter which is what initially led me to my current career.
I’ll go straight up Mitt Romney on you. Bet you $10,000?
To win you will have to get your party on enough state ballots to have a chance to win the electoral college were you to win all of them; you must start with less than a million dollars readily available to do ballot access.
Wanna bet?
NOTA did win, which is why neither Hinkle nor Rutherford were eligible to run in subsequent rounds. Are you suggesting the Vice Chair should have become the acting chair with the Vice Chair posution left unfilled…….?
Glad not ever state has those rules, as I’m not too sure that I am “domiciled” in any state at all.
This is a nice theory and would work just fine if we had more people willing and able to be delegates than there are delegate slots available cumulatively from all the states. In reality it has bee the other way around at every national convention I know of, including the ones before I was attending or even a member.
Yes, both paragraphs are correct, if by Libertarian you mean eligible to be national convention delegate.
It is commonplace and I have even done it myself. I was a Michigan delegate in 2000 and have never lived in Michigan. It is actually one of my least visited lower 48 states, although I did live within walking distance of the Michigan state line on the Toledo, Ohio side briefly in 1991….but that had absolutely nothing to do with me being a delaegate from that state 9 years later. It was actually just the first state that gave me a definite yes on seating me in Y2K..
But on the other hand it is also commonplace for people to not know that, assume incorrectly that if they are not already a delegate from their state ahead of time that that they can’t become a delegate for their state or some other state, and skip the convention for that reason. I have observed this many times.
The number of people who know that seating with another state is a possible option is relatively small, compared to the number of people who might take advantage of it if they knew it was even an option. I bet if this was common knowledge among all LP supporters in every state that every LP national convention would be fully packed with every state delegation maxed out every time.
Steven Wilson May 12, 2014 at 8:03 pm said: “With the ground soldiers we have, it wouldn’t be that hard to get on the ballot for 2016 with a new party. No national, just a confederation of state affiliates.
It could be done.”
Getting on the ballot in all 50 states plus DC with a new political party would be a bitch. Americans Elect was in the process of doing it for the 2012 election and probably would have succeeded in doing it if they had not decided to pull the plug in May of 2012, but keep in mind that they spent an obscene amount of money on ballot access, somewhere around $16-$20 million, and this does not include the states they did not finish or did not start. Keep in mind that Americans Elect was backed by some very wealthy people, and also keep in mind that they started their national ballot access drives in the fall of 2010.
You seriously underestimate the difficulty and expense of getting on the ballot in all 50 states plus DC. I’m not saying that it can’t be done, but you’d better have some very wealthy people backing you and/or some celebrity candidate(s) that can raise a lot of money, and a lot of volunteers would be helpful as well.
Steve
That states already own the ballot access… not national. All that has to happen is for the states to create a federation devoid of all this acrimony, drama and republican saboteurs.
Just imagine what we could accomplish if we stopped fighting ourselves.
The founding members of the LP stated that the Republicans had turned on them, so they went on their own.
You may not want to repeat it, but you can certainly learn from it. History can teach us things about ourselves and the roads we can take.
With the ground soldiers we have, it wouldn’t be that hard to get on the ballot for 2016 with a new party. No national, just a confederation of state affiliates.
It could be done.
Should say, “so he will be seated with…”
We need an edit function!
Wait.
There ain’t no free lunch. I know I read that somewhere.
I am only willing to pay for George’s membership in LPNY so he will seat with a progressive libertarian state (no offense to Mass. which also is one.)
Send the bill for the other 399 seats to Sundwall. He will treat it with all due respect.
I’m with Axinn! Free lunches to all new members.
Axinn for Generalissimo for life! Long live Axinn!
Marc, I don’t disagree with you on transparency. I do take issue with having a secret ballot, then demanding to see your vote after you’ve voted, i.e. attempting to change the rules after you don’t like the results.
I was soft on all of the chair candidates, but when I saw that the convention preferred NOTA as much as the two competitors, I enthusiastically switched my vote. That’s the beauty of a real political convention — and part of the fun.
If possible (and I think it should be possible), I wish NOTA had won.
In the end, no chair of the LP is going to make much of a difference. Geoff certainly has not. I think a clean slate of the LNC would have a shot, but not just changing the one position.
The before and after screenshots are now included in the original article.
Virginia also has a residency requirement. We require our members to be legal residents as well as *domiciled* here. We have nothing against the gypsies who belong to five or ten state parties and pretend to have some reason to be involved.
We just prefer to have members who actually live here (the only exceptions we make are people who are temporarily living/working abroad, as well as military personnel — as long as either still has Virginia voting status).
California has a residency requirement to be one of their delegates, I believe.
Wholeheartedly agreed Marc. That’s why I’m proposing this language at the FL state convention.
Move to amend Article IV of the by-laws to add Section 7 to be
entitled Delegates to the National Convention. By Mike Kane
Votes cast by delegates at the National Convention that are not
directed by the chair of said convention but done by caucus of the
state delegates, shall be done by roll call vote or individual signed
ballot, with the method being chosen by majority vote of the Florida
delegation before the commencement of voting. Roll call votes or
signed ballots, whichever method is chosen by the Florida delegation,
shall be collected and reported by a Florida delegate to be chosen at
the national convention by vote of the Florida delegation prior to the
commencement of voting.
The chair of the Florida delegation at the national convention shall
report all voting done by this procedure to the secretary of the Libertarian Party of Florida within 14 days of the closing the national
convention to be added to the first regular meeting minutes of the
state party following the close of the national convention.
That said, it is a little disconcerting to think that libertarians are as willing to fold in the face of criticism as we accuse our fellow D and R voters of being.
But then, that gets back to the ideological weakness I have so little respect for.
Have a spine, dammit. Don’t change what you believe because someone is offended by it — instead, push your position even harder, right into their faces.
Shane, I kinda have mixed feelings on all this. My opinion that all votes as “delegates” should be recorded, and public. I do not believe in secret ballots.
If we’re going to have people we’re going to call “delegates”, then we should expect them to be at least as transparent as elected officials (who generally speaking have recorded votes on just about everything nowadays).
Who are the main people who have a RIGHT to know how their delegates voted? The people who appointed/elected them to go to the national convention and hopefully represent their overall wishes.
I see such transparency as a way to accountability for delegates: Make stupid choices on the convention floor, and the rank-and-file have the option to not give you a delegate seat next time.
But that only works if the information is made available.
I wish I knew what California is doing with all of the delegates we are awarded. I’d be very surprised if many people can make it to Ohio due to sheer personal economics, so I’ll bet there are many open spots. I don’t think Aaron and his people get much love from the people in charge of the state’s delegates, but, of course, very few people know what the heck goes on in the CA Ex Com. I’ll try to see what I can find out at our meeting Wednesday night.
Marc, that’s correct. Jillian demanded we disclose how we voted. There were three Ohio delegates (me being one) who voted for a chair candidate in round one, then switched to NOTA in subsequent rounds.
So it wasn’t a “switch” in the middle over the vote — just in rounds.
One of the delegates from Ohio who voted NOTA in round 2 became very uncomfortable with the inquisition that was going on and switched his vote back in round three.
In a huddle of the delegates, I disclosed I switched and Jillian angrily asked why I would do that — I think my response was “because I can.”
I’m no convention novice and understand the pressures that delegates receive from others in their vote, however I thought it was inappropriate to forcefully demand people disclose their ballots after the vote.
While I certainly did not have to disclose, I chose to simply to show them they were reacting on an unfounded allegation — but that didn’t help and they still demanded the recount.
For my next convention, I’ll stick with VA as I think we’re a bit more open to individualism than Ohio.
OK, Here’s what I don’t get.
Ohio (until the General when the Governor’s vote will be less than, Whatever) only requires voting in one of the most recent 2 primaries (and not voting for another party in the most recent Primary) If you voted in 2012 LP and DNV in the 2014 Primary, or if you voted Libertarian in the ’14 Primary you are a Libertarian in the eyes of the state, and by definition the state party.
If Ohio is Full, Then a party member may be allowed by another state (Except MA, OR if they boycott the Convention, and other states that have a residency requirement). And If the state of residence calls you a Libertarian, you are a Libertarian.
The first paragraph is right, is the second?
Shawn, George stated up above that it would mean OH got 20 more delegate seats than they would have.
20 may not sound like much, but as stated above, given that Rutherford lost to NOTA by two or three votes, 20 could indeed be extremely significant.
Has anyone yet done the math to see how many additional delegates we are even talking about?
It could be such a small number as to render the whole kerfuffle pointless.
Shane said:
Jillian Mack?
Wow, Shane. Quite the story.
As an aside, I find it quite annoying to know that people who should be good with procedure are unaware that one is entirely free to change their vote as long as they do so before the body declares a final result.
“Relatively few people know that sitting with other states is even an option.” – Paulie
Enough do that its quite commonplace.
“Mr. L please consider that Ohio folks may have all wanted to sit in their own state delegation and not in another state. Imagine telling people “sorry you can’t sit with your own state”. Not necessarily a good way to motivate and thank people. Would those people wanted to attend?”
If you were replying to me (I didn’t see any other “Mr L”s in this thread). I was not saying that more Ohio delegates was a bad thing.
I was criticizing Phillies implication that it was a delegate packing scheme. And if it was, it would be poor strategy to that end.
Wow. This is disappointing as this $10k does nothing to grow the party and is simply an attempt to pack the convention — and it will fail.
With that said, it’s Aaron’s money.
I was seated with Ohio in 2012. They could not fill their roster then but should be able to this year.
But the reality is that most libertarians will act independently and cannot be trusted to fall in line with a scheme.
They assumed I would fall in line in 2012 but I switched my vote to NOTA and convinced others to do the same — this prompted an Ohio leader (I forget her name) to believe there was vote tampering.
In Kevin’s defense, he was looking out for the integrity of the vote. I informed him of the switches — but by that time it was too late. Although I felt it was inappropriate to pressure delegates to “admit” they switched, I knew we were wasting a ton of time.
Also, on the cost of a member, no one should have the assumption that it costs $25 to acquire a member as Ohio did. In reality, it’s at least a $50 investment (deducting the first gift from the cost of at least $75).
Anyone who has ever signed the LP pledge and not explicitly revoked it is still an LP member.
If they happen to be lapsed on their dues and someone else pays them it does not make them a member since they were already a member.
Relatively few people know that sitting with other states is even an option.
It would. I don’t know of one and am no longer empowered to try to find one.
I’ve seen some people try. All I can say is good luck; you will need it.
Agreed. Four is disgracefully far too few. It should have been at least thirty.
and therefore brainless…unless the brains are housed elsewhere, as this proposal apparently makes quite plausible.
I’m not convinced it actually was a legal requirement and it has not been enforced before. For all they knew, the signatures could have been disqualified if he called the LP his employer when he is an independent contractor.
That was last term, and would make a rather remarkable basis for throwing this term’s bums out (which is how this topic was introduced in this thread), when last term’s bums were in large part already thrown out, albeit for different reasons. The remaining bums who are still on LNC from last term are for the most part elected by regions.
True, but rather irrelevant to Wagner’s point that I questioned, unless there’s something I am missing.
It would be really nice if it were possible to add a ‘quote’ or ‘reply’ feature, so that we could tell who is speaking to whom.
“Steven Wilson May 11, 2014 at 6:49 pm
If someone or some group were so inclined, Aaron starr is making the prospect of forming a new party ever so attractive.”
Good luck getting ballot access and name recognition with a new party.
Let’s see if Ohio drops off a lot of National members in the next few months. It looks to be maintaining right now.
Mr. A of New York has touched on a valid point. What if 10% of those 400 continue to contribute to the national party. What if they also get re-motivated and help the state affiliate? And would turning people away from a state delegation because it is full, keep people motivated to come back and help in the future at a state level. This may actually get people re-involved in the party.
Looks like Ohio has bigger issues with the GOP trying to take their ballot access away.
Steven Wilson
Forming a new party is not necessary. All of the productive and successful states can flush the LNC without very much disruption at all.
Remember .. the states are the party … not the LNC or the people who currently populate it.
Let me see if I understand the point of this article.
Aaron Starr contributes/loans/gives/whatever $10,000 of his own money to LP Ohio which uses it productively to renew lapsed memberships of Ohioans in the National LP.
Are we seriously criticizing someone for generously contributing to bring hundreds more members into the LP?????
Or worse, are we criticizing Kevin Knedler who has worked his ass off over the last six years to build LPO into the active, thriving affiliate it now is for having the temerity of seizing an opportunity to increase the size and influence of his state organization (something I and every other state chair worth anything does every day)?
George, if you think Ohio has too many seats and Massachusetts will be under-represented, I would be honored to pay for your 2014 membership in LPNY so you can be an LPNY delegate and thereby free up a Massachusetts seat for someone else. I am pretty sure that you and I will support similar candidates (full disclosure: I adhere to the libertarian wing of the Libertarian Party), so like Mr. Starr I am willing to spend money where I think it will best advance causes with which I agree.
I cannot be as generous as Mr. Starr and finance 400 memberships, but I am happy to do my part.
If someone or some group were so inclined, Aaron starr is making the prospect of forming a new party ever so attractive. All of the fighting is getting old and expensive. And the expense is not just financial. The expense at the human variable. The National convention activities are burning people out.
I have received at least four emails requesting donations from National in the last month.
Not for nothing, but this is getting really OLD. And the battle cries to continue to fight from the inside are getting lame. Perhaps it is time to move on. The convention should make that clear.
If at once the Libertarian founders felt the Republicans had betrayed them, then maybe it has happened again. It wouldn’t be the first time a group has failed.
As always, I promote dissolving the National. It fits our principles: headless, but viable.
“paulie May 11, 2014 at 3:07 pm
‘amongst the backdrop of failed petitioning efforts and ballot access losses’
Tell me more about this. The only failed efforts I know of this term were the results of Republican screw jobs in Ohio and Michigan that were upheld by partisan judges agaisnt all logic and precedent. Ohio is still appealing.”
While I agree that disqualifying signatures because a petition circulator did not fill in the box/line of who is paying him is stupid, and it should not disqualify those signatures, I do think that the LP of OH should take some responsibility here for turning those signatures in without making sure that all of the legally required information was filled in.
If you want to go back to 2012, the Libertarian Party failed on the petition drive in Oklahoma, and the real reason for the failure was due to LP mismanagement of the petition drive. If what I said had been followed instead of ignored in Oklahoma I’d bet money that they would have made it.
I believe Marc was addressing someone who said “we” in the comments, not you in the article.
Tell me more about this. The only failed efforts I know of this term were the results of Republican screw jobs in Ohio and Michigan that were upheld by partisan judges agaisnt all logic and precedent. Ohio is still appealing.
I am not a party member, but if people think so lightly of the business of the LP that they won’t attend and participate without sitting with their friends then I’m not certain they’re too terribly committed to the cause.
Oh. Excellent point. Apologies if I seemed slightly offended.
George, I think Marc was talking about LP Watcher’s comment.
I remember very clearly from 2012 being astonished that Rutherford refused to drop out of the running for chair after it became very clear the LP body didn’t want him. That convention was my first knowledge of him, and it was very negative.
I am sending the two images of the loan page, before and after this article went up, to various IPR editors.
My understanding is that it is ‘not legal’ though not criminal to by a membership in any organization for another person without their direct prior consent and knowledge. For example, I could not legally enroll Aaron Starr in the Nazi Party of America without his expressed consent and knowledge prior of my doing so. Even if Aaron had ONCE been a member of this group, to renew membership would still require is direct knowledge and permission to do such.
To this ends, it appears that the LNC has the obligation that each and every single person enrolled as a LNC supporter had given knowledge and given consent Prior to the State party paying for such.
Whose sockpuppet am I supposed to be? Not yours, I suspect. The original article is from Liberty for America, where I am the Editor. In American English, as explained by Twain, editors such as me editing my newspaper are “we”.
Deleting the $10,000 loan months after the fact…. sheesh. Hasn’t anyone learned yet that coverup is worse than the crime?
What’s this “we” crap, sockpuppet?
Why do I have the feeling there is about to be a civil war in Ohio due to the opacity and shenanigans of the current leadership (amongst the backdrop of failed petitioning efforts and ballot access losses) …. and why is it that there are problems with every state Aaron Starr touches in some manner?
Finally, I anticipate that there will be a slate, but it will be a secret slate, not announced as a slate to prevent organization to oppose it.
I am reasonably certain that Mattson is running again. She was an extremely competent Secretary. However, she has this unfortunate attachment to Roberts.
I am reasonably confident that Starr is running again.
Fortunately I printed out the page from your Secretary of State’s web pages, and have it in front of me.
Goodness from what I am hearing if it wasn’t for Knedler, he would be turning away dozens of people that want to sit with the Ohio delegation, some of which are family and friends. Brilliant move to allow people to sit with their fellow Buckeyes. Nicely done. That’s all there was to the increase in the delegation. No Machiavellian intent at all. The guy simply cares about his fellow delegates and they know it.
There is no loan…check the financial filings again.
Knedlering happened after the initial first round vote. It was lost for Rutherford already. At least we don’t have to worry about Rutherford running. He found other greener pastures. And others are not coming back. So we did manage to run them and others of their ilk from the party and that of leadership positions. Actually it may be mission accomplished. Don’t know of any reports of any of them running for LNC, except for Mattson. Keep up the pressure and continue to shun professionals away.
George
Don’t forget that their bylaws stating that no more than $5000 in obligations can be incurred.
https://www.lpo.org/about
Section 3. The Executive Committee may incur debt with term of no more than 4 years pursuant to Article V, Section 5A of the Party Constitution.
A. Exception can be made for debt incurred for the purchase of real property.
B. Any debt incurred must have a pre-defined rate of interest and terms of payment.
C. The total non-mortgage debt for the Party may not exceed $5,000 at any one time, including interest and past salary obligations.
What are the terms of payment for the Starr loan?
In 2012, *two* extra votes would have made a difference. This is 20.
How many of you Ohioans know that your state party went $10,000 in debt to buy seats at the National Convention?
Some of you are so far out in left field on this issue, you are in another zip code. It is laughable . Find another tape to play.
NOTA was a legitimate candidate. Knedler wasn’t happy with NOTA’s legitimate win and had a temper tantrum that led to him challenging the vote from his own state. That **challenge** is what cost all the time.
Let’s put it this way: If I was running for chair against NOTA, and NOTA was beating me or almost beating me, I’d walk away on the assumption that I didn’t have the support I would need to lead the organization even if I won.
Rutherford made a huge mistake in pressing the issue after being given a direct opportunity, to save the day.
And Knedler in a fit of childish pique threw away his credibility it had taken him years to build. He still hasn’t reimbursed the first person for their time that his dilatory motions wasted.
Knedler and friends had every opportunity to straighten up and fly right at the 2012 convention. They chose to go down like schoolyard bullies, fighting and scrapping the whole way down, regardless of the cost to themselves or those around them.
With the attempt to buy a few more seats for Ohio, it is apparent none of them see anything wrong with their behavior — and they’re trying to amplify it by buying memberships for people so they can get a few more seats. I guess they’re thinking only 5 or 10 votes would have given them their wet dreams in 2012.
Had they simply kept their behavior in check in 2012, they would have won everything anyway. They turned certain victory into defeat by acting like petulant children.
Haven’t heard of any attempt to vote in a block of people at the 2014 National Convention. Will Chairman Neale run unopposed? Haven’t heard of any Indiana-Ohio attempt to get people elected to LNC. If they ever had a great opportunity to do so, it would be Columbus, Ohio 2014.
Frankly, if you are watching Ohio LP, the far bigger issue is if they will win their ongoing court battles for the right to be on the Ohio ballot for Governor and Attorney General. Meanwhile, it appears that write-in candidates for Auditor (bob bridges) and SOS (knedler) may actually make it to the November ballot. One would hope they shred the GOP for their anti-vote strategy.
If we are a political party, that is the bigger issue. Who cares if some people with lasped national membership got a gift of a year’s worth of sustaining membership. Sounds like Ohio was thinking strategically ahead on that issue.
Mr. L please consider that Ohio folks may have all wanted to sit in their own state delegation and not in another state. Imagine telling people “sorry you can’t sit with your own state”. Not necessarily a good way to motivate and thank people. Would those people wanted to attend? If not, that would be lost revenue to the national party. Even if they did attend but not on the floor, they would not have the experience of all the drama on the floor. Funny, but the case of Knedlering would apply to the vote for NOTA in 2012 as that took up far more time than one outburst. I sense you saw an example of the principled reaction that is made to the GOP when it attacks the LP and ballot access.
Any host state probably has to deal with same thing and it may be a unique situation. Will Florida exceed its seat capacity for its members in 2016. They best get started increasing their delegation in year 2015.
Bring this back around to the headline. “Packing the Convention”
How many extra delegates does this give Ohio? Is it anything significant?
Considering that most anyone who wants to be a delegate can usually get a delegate’s seat, even if their state’s delegation is full, increasing Ohio’s delegation size is probably not going make a difference. Especially in a non-presidential year.
Though this should be a reminder to all state delegation heads to make sure their delegation lists are filled out and up to date ahead of the convention. Keep your I’s dotted and T’s crossed. The paranoid will make their usual blind attacks on later additions to delegations even when the delegates are submitted 100% legally.
…can’t wait… Heartily agree. George
Marc, Wouldn’t it?… It wasn’t. George
Frankly, I don’t see this loan being repaid by LPOH. I think Starr probably considers it a donation.
I also think it’s passing funny that Knedlering the convention was so effective in 2012 that $10,000 has been paid to Knedlerize 2014. I can’t wait to see the temper tantrum when things don’t go his way again.
Matt
How about the Ohio bylaws that prohibit debts in excess of $5000 when a $10000 loan is involved?
If there is evidence that memberships were renewed without the members consent, I’d like to see it. It may prove the implied scumbaggery. But, if Starr simply covered the dues of some lapsed members, this is just a case of effective political maneuvering by reformers.
Presumably, increasing the number of OH delegates will amount to some advantage for reformers at the convention. That is not something that I desire. But, again, that’s politics. There is nothing inherently wrong with covering someone else’s dues – even 400 someones.
For the record, I do not believe that payments having been sent from a bank account that a government agency deems the wrong account should mean anything to a libertarian.
Wouldn’t some of that be explained if the “loan” to the LPOH was given straight to the LNC by Starr?