Excerpts from a new commentary by 2008 Libertarian Party Vice Presidential nominee Wayne Root, who is seeking the 2012 LP presidential nomination:
The First Shot of the Tax Revolt Begins in California!
Tax and Spend Propositions Go Down in Flames Despite Out-Spending Opponents 10 to 1
The People That Pay All the Taxes and Create All the Jobs Are in Revolt.
The model for America: NEVADA where the state constitution bans income taxes.
Whatever revolution that starts in California, always spreads to the nation. In arguably the most liberal state in America, California taxpayers sent a message to the nation on Tuesday: “We’ve Had Enough and We’re Not Going to Take It Anymore!” California voters shocked the political establishment by rejecting a slew of propositions meant to save California from a massive, unsustainable $15 to $23 billion-dollar budget deficit, by taxing and spending some more. All the tax and spend propositions went down to a resounding defeat, despite a $30 million spending campaign. Perhaps these big government proponents should have instead saved the $30 million and applied it to the deficit. The results were remarkable considering that proponents of “tax and spend” out-spent the opposition by 10 to 1.
Even more telling, the only proposition that passed will ban salary increases for politicians if the state is running a general fund deficit. The results prove that California is once again at the epicenter of a seismic tax revolution. With voter turnout low, the results also prove what I’ve been predicting for months now- the only people who care about taxes are the 20% of taxpayers who pay them all. That is the group that will rise up in revolt. Since California starts most of the trends in this country, and leads the nation in taxes, I think it is safe to say that the sleeping giant has awakened.
[Full commentary here.]
Hello, thank you for your good work.
I’m trying to get some momentum going for a new State initiative. I hope word gets passed around and the
different groups interested in controlling the Government’s wild, thoughtless tax policies will think about this option. It would also reduce the power of the Federal government to violate the law any time they want to.
When people in this country who would like to regain control over our government discover what a tool they have,
things are going to get interesting. In every State that has an initiative process, we should pass measures that make it illegal for businesses operating in that state to withhold taxes of any sort from the pay of employees.
Do you think that would wake up a few legislators in the State and Federal governments?
It would be a simple measure to write, check for legal language and file. We might have trouble with the title and summery, the Sec State won’t like the measure. We’d need support from groups and people all over the country
to to raise the money for the signatures and campaign. A political Action Committee would have to be filed, A treasured found and a bank account opened. It’s as simple as that. The hardest part of course would be to get
people across the country to but their money where their mouths are.
I’m talking about filing the first measure in California and using the momentum to do the same in other states.
If you would like to see the government lose it’s ability to simply take money from people, pass the idea around.
Thanks,
Tom Scott
@47 – Yupp. Mik wins for “Best point yet.”
Michael H. Wilson // May 27, 2009 at 6:43 am
Come on LG let’s not toss the “Root Haters” phrase around. I disagree with him, but I don’t hate him. I even appreciate the fact that he’s trying to get the LP some exposure. I just disagree with his being on Savage. I also wish he’d dig into an issue a bit more.
i dont include you , i agree you have more like guarded optimism .
Ah, the pleasantries of courteous and civil discussion! It is good to see people can agree to disagree on certain points without resorting to name-calling or other insults.
No, what I’m saying is that Root can’t do math.
Come on LG let’s not toss the “Root Haters” phrase around. I disagree with him, but I don’t hate him. I even appreciate the fact that he’s trying to get the LP some exposure. I just disagree with his being on Savage. I also wish he’d dig into an issue a bit more.
sipos__Root doesn’t seem interested in changing minds, so much as pleasing people who can give him things (fame, money, votes, or whatever).
me__ you know the intelligent quotient in libertarian circles is high and im betting that people who see thru the government illusion would also see thru insincerity.
i mean do you Root-haters think you guys are the only ones seeing clearly and the rest of us are just duped?
and for the last time if Root wanted only money he lives in a town that swims in it . its ;ludicrous to think he’s in it for the money .
everyone of us is here to change the world.
Mike S__When Root can come do orbital mechanics and figure out double integral conversion factors for hydrazine consumption based on tank volume, pressure, and thrust forces, then we’ll talk.
me__ Damn why dont you just whip it out and lay it up on the table.LOL
are you seriously saying that only people who have the highly specialized knowledge you do are worthy?
So you can be diametrically opposed to someone but if they can exibit such superior intelligence as yours , well then youll talk.
geez , talk about stuck up .
You don’t change minds by talking to people who already agree with you.
True. But did Root try to change Savage’s mind? Or did Root imply agreement by toadying up to Savage?
Root doesn’t seem interested in changing minds, so much as pleasing people who can give him things (fame, money, votes, or whatever).
You don’t change minds by talking to people who already agree with you.
Steve I don’t listen to Savage either. At least not any more. In my opinion he is a bigot. And this comes down to a matter of how the public see the LP. It is a matter of guilt by association.
They call this perception management.
Art Bell was at least fun.
Savage isn’t.
MW
I still have hope for Root. He has become much better with libertarian issues. He is very active in promoting the Libertarian party. However, I won’t support him until he changes his stance on military aid to foreign countries.
Root’s association with Savage will only damage the public’s opinion of the LP and we have enough damage to overcome as it is.
Using that reasoning, maybe Harry Browne shouldn’t have been on the Art Bell show several times…nor on NPR affiliates!
I don’t listen to Savage, so the mileage may vary.
The bottom line is that there are pluses and minuses to being on ANY show. And Libertarians don’t have their own media outlets, so we must take what we can get.
And live with the consequences of attracting conspiracy theorists or “liberal” thinking people or maybe even “conservative” thinking people.
PEACE
LG I don’t care what Root says and he has as much right to run for any office in the LP as the next guy, but I have listened to Savage’s radio show and he, in my opinion, is a bigot. Thus when I hear that Root is on the show I can only assume that he is willing to ignore Savage’s comments that I hear as bigoted.
Root’s association with Savage will only damage the public’s opinion of the LP and we have enough damage to overcome as it is. Besides he is wrong on his statement as to who pays taxes.
Perhaps he needs to look at the plight of the poor and low income people in this country and see how much the government barriers keep people down.
Me, jealous of Root? That’s so hilarious it’s more pathetic than he is! It’s not jealousy to state the facts of the issue. So he wrote a book. So what? Lots of quality libertarian books out there (like Radicals for Capitalism, for example).
When Root can come do orbital mechanics and figure out double integral conversion factors for hydrazine consumption based on tank volume, pressure, and thrust forces, then we’ll talk.
And yes, we could ask for a better statesman, and we have, repeatedly.
Wayne Root is a poor man’s Aaron Russo, that’s for damn sure.
Aaron Russo was a true radical — he was deemed “not pure” by the head/ass and capitalist caucuses for not obsessing on privatized streetlights and even saying mean things about oil companies.
Wayne Root is just a pro-war establishment Zionist douche who is deemed “not pure” by those in the LP with 7+% brain function.
I fully believe in the truth libertarian philosophy represents , and im confident in its ability to make Wayne more-so than he could ever make us less-so.
that also goes for the ex-GOPers who find themselves in our house.
Don’t get me wrong. I like Wayne root, even though I have only met him on a couple occasions and our conversations have been brief. You have to love his enthusiasm.
I thought he did quite well in the Vice-Presidential debates. Matt Gonzales is a tough guy to stand up to when it comes to presenting ideas. Quite frankly both Root and Gonzales were better than the VP offerings of the major parties.
It’s just that I hear a lot of 19th century conservatism come through when Wayne talks. Maybe it’s just me. I think Liberty is not just economic liberty and property rights do not trump human rights. Wayne tends to focus on taxes and property.
Some other things come through, like school choice. Like I say, he’s coming around.
Mik , just give him a chance . Coming around is all any of us can ask for. The best gift he brings to the table is his shameless self-promotion. People think its bad but he writes releases all the time , wrote a book and has appearences on several mainstream media shows . I guarantee you he procured all his media for himself and not by any offer given to the LP .
He talks anytime anyone will listen , jumps on timely news stories and is always letting folks know about his coverage.
We could not ask for a better spokesperson because he brings his p.r and media with him. I geuss some would prefer a more philisophically pure LPer who gets ignored.
Remember AArron Russo , who faced the same newcomer , not-pure-enuf garbage. the LP wasted an excellent chance that would have taken us to a whole other level.
When you talk faster than you think, ideas get scrambled. When you type faster than you think, words get misspelled.
Don’t forget, every time you buy anything the cost of the income taxes (and corporate taxes etc.) is hidden in the price. Employers have to withhold that and give it to the government even if it all gets refunded when employees file. It gets passed along to consumer in the form of higher prices.
Back to Wayne Root, it is clear he is approaching libertarianism from a very conservative background. I do thing he is coming around, though. When we hear Wayne advocate a land value tax, we’ll know he has progressed.
I corresponded with Wayne on this issue . Im positive his numbers are correct and that his statements are true.
At the same time I told him from a marketing standpoint I didnt like it , I told him it sounded elitest. Wyne is VERY good at listenting to well-intentioned advice and is very open to suggestions.
Rather then make snotty derogatory comments about his intelligence or job status , if you disagree with something he said let him know.
Having said that I think there is a strong bias ecsp.from the left against being rich , and against those who promote liberty but also make a buck at it.
I kinda had this bias and wayne helped me change it
I am not rich and I must tell you when I was going to attend a fundraiser at Roots house I was dreading hanging out with snobby rich people . Also at the time I wasnt sure how i felt about Wayne . It was at this event where i started t0 change y whole perspective on him . In his very spacious mansion , I got there an hr early , I saw his beautiful wife cooking snacks from Costco like every othr family , his beautiful winding staircase filled with toys under it like any other. They could have catered it all but didnt and their un-pretentiosness was a welcome surprise . His young son thinking I was a kid maybe askedme to play toys , completely unafraid and it tickled me.His older son bar-backed all night and I mean not just a little while for fun , he worked his butt off the entire time.
I came to believe there was no way Wayne could be any of the thhings Id heard and have such a down to earth , well behaved , simply impressive family. His oldest daughter is impressive , articulate and just wona national fencing competition and will be in the olympics.
I have done a total 180 on Wayne , andI want people who may be on the fence to hear why lest they only hear the mostly untrue rhetoric here.
and 1 more thing Wayne is from Vegas , where more money crosses hands than you can even imagine. If Wayne simply wanted to be rich , believe me there are a 1,000 ways he could make far more money then fronting for the LP, with far better benefits , less stress and none of the personality attacks. Dont doubt that , if he was in it for himself he wouldnt be with the LP.
to his credit , he never responds and ie never heard him say bad things about anyone.
mdh – with a low income, no income taxes, you still pay PLENTY of taxes.
Often a higher percentage than the high rate payers.
My gross income is not very high. I do not pay any taxes.
Yet I care very much about taxes because I do not wish to see my fellow countrymen enslaved.
As Lysander Spooner, a white man, fought black slavery in the 19th century, I, a non-payer, fight tax-slavery in the 21st.
L.G. up thread I quote Root as writing; “…people who care about taxes are the 20% of taxpayers who pay them all.”
Any group that pays all of something cannot be reduced to 20% of the group. They would be 100% of the group if they pay all the taxes. All of anything is 100% of the thing in question. As I am sure you realize.
Secondly plenty of poor and low income people pay taxes. They pay sales taxes, business taxes if they own a business as some do, property taxes, etc. low income people also receive the lowest level of government services. So Root is well off the mark and he makes the LP look bad and he looks foolish. He needs to understand the issues before he opens his mouth.
He just waits for a crowd to form, then rushes to its front and claims to be its leader.
Well I, for one EXPECT a politician to see a parade and get to the front of it and pretend to be leading it! That’s what politicians do.
But I have to agree with Tom “Antiwar/non-intervention is one of my core political values. If a person fails on that score, I don’t care how “good” he is on other issues.” And antiwar/nonintervention IS a core Libertarian value, always has been.
And if WAR has his finger in the air, he would see that is the direction America is going, too.
PEACE
@ #26 – Actually Matt, under the so-called “Fair Tax”, a $10,000 car becomes a $13,000 car. The suggested sales tax rate that the so-called “Fair Taxers” are pushing is a 30% sales tax (the GAO or OMB says that it may actually have to be much higher – as high as 56% – to achieve the so-called “Fair Taxers” goal of revenue neutrality); they are just lying and trying to trick people into thinking it is “only” 23%.
MSeebeck__LG, I have a math degree and can do number base conversions in my head. Root is an unemployed bookie.
You do THAT math.
ME__ ok— mike+ego-based , un-related adolescent comment = jealousy
TS__Antiwar/non-intervention is one of my core political values. If a person fails on that score, I don’t care how “good” he is on other issues.
me __ wow , well thats a little stringent . are you meaning to say you judge whether or not a person is valuable based on one issue?
myself I usually use the measurement of whether or not we have more in common than not.
TS__It has nothing to do with “jealousy,” LG. Rather, I regard Root as an opportunist and a phony. Worse, I suspect Root (unlike Ron Paul) has neither passion, understanding, nor genuine sympathy for antiwar/non-intervention.
me__ um hello , the man has 5 kids , Im pretty sure he cares about minimizing their chances of dying serving their country.
@25 – If you’re cool with replacing the income tax with a national sales tax, then you’re naive on the subject.
That plan effectively diverts money into the bankers’ hands. Remember, that $10,000 car now becomes a $12,300 car, and you’re financing (and paying interest on) that sales tax if you’re like most Americans without $12,300 on hand. Of course, that snippet is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of how the “Fair Tax” is just a ploy by the banking industry to further pillage the poor.
My second biggest issue (after antiwar) is civil liberties, with an emphasis on free speech, freedom of assembly, anti-police state, pro-privacy (freedom from domestic spying), and broader Fair Use (copyright protection is increasingly being used as a tool to squelch free speech, see: http://www.chillingeffects.org/index.cgi
Sure, I’m antitax. I’m cool with replacing the Income tax with a national sales tax, but I’m also fine with radical “taxation is theft” rhetoric. Whatever. I can be an incrementalist on lowering taxes.
But while I’m opposed to taxes, it doesn’t outrage me as much as seeing innocent civilians murdered in war, or a creeping police state, domestic spying, and free speech squelched.
I don’t respect “libertarians” who support war and empire, but are outraged that they must pay for it. Their idea of “libertarian” is for conquered and occupied nations to pay for their own “liberation.” Their idea of “libertarian” is a low-cost empire by having conquered nations pay tribute to our Emperor.
LG, I have a math degree and can do number base conversions in my head. Root is an unemployed bookie.
You do THAT math.
@ #22 – I would add personal liberty, especially freedom from the war on drugs and romantic freedom, and a policy of NO taxes to non-intervention. If a candidate does not consistently and radically challenge the war on drugs and government suppression of romantic freedom, it is a deal-breaker for me. Similarly, a candidate who proposes replacement tax schemes like the so-called “Fair Tax” or the so-called “Flat Tax” or replacing state income taxes with higher sales taxes, is a deal breaker for me. Or like here in Georgia where the LPGa is going to likely run a US Senate candidate in 2010 who wants a “compromise” tax solution between the so-called “Fair Taxers” and the so-called “Flat Taxers”; in other words, he seems to want both a national sales tax and an income tax!
Ironically, the so-called “Fair Taxers” and the so-called “Flat Taxers” are generally in the “incrementalist”/electoral victory uber alles camp of libertarians who eschew the “radicals” for not embracing “incrementalist” approaches to tax “reform”. They totally ignore the proposals put forth by some “radicals” which would eliminate income and other taxes by “incrementally” raising the personal exemption until everyone is exempted from paying income taxes and by “incrementally” eliminating other taxes in a similar manner. But then these proposals don’t involve enslaving the whole population to the tax state the way the so-called “Fair Tax” and the so-called “Flat Tax” do. After all, demonstrating that you can “make government work” and you will implement solutions to force everyone to pay his/her “fair share” are more important to someone who only wants to win an election than actually offering the “utopian” vision of meaningfully reducing government and freeing people from its grasp.
It has nothing to do with “jealousy,” LG. Rather, I regard Root as an opportunist and a phony. Worse, I suspect Root (unlike Ron Paul) has neither passion, understanding, nor genuine sympathy for antiwar/non-intervention. Thus, the more media face time he gets (and praise from Fox News), the worse for the LP.
Antiwar/non-intervention is one of my core political values. If a person fails on that score, I don’t care how “good” he is on other issues.
PEOPLE WHO WANT STATE TAXES IN TEXAS BECA– USE THE PROPERTY TAXES are too high, this is an example of people with poor education, another example why people want to do home schooling. The scary part is there are more of these type of people voting then the people who have the intelligent to figure things out. Those who cannot solve problems should get out of the way. What is scary is the answer to everyone problem when people get in office is. OH WE HAVE TO RAISE MORE TAXES. Crap. It time we get rid of the IRS and have a flat tax that never goes up, like maybe 10% of whatever income you make. That’s it period.
my point is , everyone keeps acting like Wayne doesnt know know what the hell he’s talking about , and that he cant do math.
its insulting not to mention wrong. wayne has painstakingly checked his facts and quite frankly i’d bet on his mathematical skills over anyone elses on this blog , who so easily throw criticisms
True, LG, except you’re quoting federal figures, and the vote was on state taxes and spending shell games.
The voters were pissed that the legislators raised their taxes in the largest state tax increase in American history, and then asked to extend it another 2 years.
TS__Root doesn’t think or do math.
He just waits for a crowd to form, then rushes to its front and claims to be its leader.
me)_ thats just foolish to claim a man who graduated from such a prestigious college cant do math . you always sound so flippin jealous Sipos , are you mad that virtual newcomer Root is better at every tangible aspect of promoting the LP then you , who has been at it much longer?
ok look here are the real numbers , and whether or not you think the line is a good idea never the less , it remains true.
the EXACT NUMBERS ARE BELOW::
Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid
The Top 1% of taxpayers pay just under 40% of all federal taxes (39.89% to be exact).
The Top 5% pay over 60% (60.14% to be exact).
The Top 10% pay over 70% of taxes (70.79% to be exact).
The top 25% pay almost 90% of all federal income taxes (86.27% to be exact). REMARKABLE.
Thats why the 20% of voters who came out to vote on Tuesday in California was ANGRY. They were mostly made up of the 20% of the electorate who is stuck with virtually the entire bill. FACT.
By the way, in case you are wondering, the Top 50% pays virtually 100% of taxes (97.01% to be exact).
That means close to a majority of Americans pay virtually ZERO federal income taxes…and many of them get a check back each year…called an “earned income credit.”
But those numbers don’t tell the whole story. The high income earners who pay almost 100% of the personal income taxes, almost all own businesses. Their businesses pay corporate income taxes and payroll taxes. They own the biggest homes…and so they pay 80% or more of property taxes too. And they spend the most by far…so this small group pays the most sales taxes too.
So if you add it all up, I’d guesstimate that the top 20% pay virtually 100% of all major taxes- income, business, property, sales.
If you wipe out that group…you destroy the tax base of the USA. Without the top 1%, 2%, 5% or 20%…there is virtually no money to pay for all of Obama’s programs.
as usual , waynes detractors have torwist and skewer the truth to make him look bad.
If you ask me it works in his favor that people have to manufacture lies where no real issues exist. It means that there is nothing concrete to critisize him for. keep trying though … it only makes Wayne look better…
agreed , i dont like the line either.bad ju ju
This 20% pays 100% line should be dropped like a hot potato. Not only is it false, but it positions the LP as the party of the “rich.” We’ll get nowhere with this line, and it’s false, as far as I’m concerned. Liberty is best for ALL, not just the rich.
Also, the rich are most likely to flee CA, not protest, for relative tax havens like NV. The rich generally don’t do protesting, their time is too valuable.
Root doesn’t think or do math.
He just waits for a crowd to form, then rushes to its front and claims to be its leader.
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2009/05/scum-seeking-libertarian-party.html
WAR apparently wrote “…I’ve been predicting for months now- the only people who care about taxes are the 20% of taxpayers who pay them all. That is the group that will rise up in revolt.”
This is a dumb statement and just doesn’t make sense and won’t go over to well with those paying sales tax which is damn near everyone last time I looked. Nor does his math make sense. If 20% of the taxpayers pay all the taxes then they would be 100%. Just some nonsense or don’t they teach math at Columbia?
The 20% “that pay all of the taxes” sustain a lifestyle that is unimaginable luxury compared to the other 80% of taxpayers that they make their money on the backs of.
You guys can “Go Galt” and threaten to take your industry-ball and go home, but it’s all going to melt down when you realize that nobody down in your gulch remembers how to cook for yourself or drive a car.
Hell, Wes, I enjoy using libertarians to bash Republicans!
In fact, if they dare not allow Wayne on stage, if he shows up anyway for a counter-protest, that would almost guarantee TV coverage. I think the Austin-area press enjoys using Libertarians to bash Republicans.
Restrictions not as in bondage, but as in not allowed to use them in the same way as adults, on the ludicrous idea that an age number implies something useful.
Apparently the context was lost on Jim. So what else is new?
Matt, OTOH, got it completely and made a good joke about it. 😀
Teenage bondage? What kind of site has IPR become? Next we’re going to see “All models and bloggers are over 18 years of age.” disclaimers at the bottom of IPR… 😉
Wait a sec. Restrictions…like bindings? They want to bind teenagers in tanning beds? What?
@ #3 – “Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else” – Frederic Bastiat
@ #4 – Assuming that he wants to do that!
Republican dominated Texas recently passed new restrictions on teenagers in tanning beds, almost passed a smoking ban, and more nanny-state stuff. If Wayne comes to Texas, I’ll be able to feed him plenty of lines to separate the Libertarians from the Republicans.
I’ve provided a small amount of assistance in an effort to get Wayne Allyn Root up on stage at the July 4th Tea Party in Austin, TX. His “no income tax” speech for Nevada applies to Texas as well–and Californians are coming to Texas in droves as well–some of them actually calling for an income tax because they think their property taxes are too high in Texas. Go figure.
I am glad the LP enjoys associating with libertarians like W.A.R. and Michael Savage.
Finally ——- first day drop off absentee voter!