Discussion space for liveblogging the Libertarian National Convention

Howdy folks,

I’m on the ground at the Libertarian National Convention. It took a long time to figure out how to get on an internet connection that worked and I don’t know how long I will be able to stay on. However, the comments on this post will serve as a place for anyone and everyone who is here to report on what is happening. Currently the convention is on break during bylaws discussions. Read more in the comments.

38 thoughts on “Discussion space for liveblogging the Libertarian National Convention

  1. paulie Post author

    ain motion fails.
    11:10 am, by thenationaldesk
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    Back to judicial committee terms proposal (longer terms, staggered terms). Confusion reigns. Wills amendment fails. Substitute moved. Substitute fails. M
    11:10 am, by thenationaldesk
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    ates registered or 2/3 of those voting. Chair refuses quorum call. Measure fails.
    10:54 am, by thenationaldesk
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    Electronic voting proposal looks set to go down. Starr valiantly appealing on its behalf. Move to extend debate fails. Measure requires majority of deleg
    10:54 am, by thenationaldesk
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    Bylaws: Postponed judicial committee terms proposal, considering electronic voting proposal.
    10:42 am, by thenationaldesk
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    Went out for a smoke, talk with LPKY Chair Ken Moellman. Congatulated him on handling of Rand Paul issues.
    10:40 am, by thenationaldesk
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    Several people have asked me when the radical lunch is. 12:30. It’s at Hunan Manor — go south on 8th to Pine, turn left, 1 1/2 blocks on right.
    10:22 am, by thenationaldesk
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    Treasurer’s report — Aaron Starr. Thorough report, no good for microblog. Will try to get numbers out later. General tone: Party in better shape on cash
    10:10 am, by thenationaldesk
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  2. paulie Post author

    more from knapp

    Credentials committee report: 458 delegates, 3 alternates, adopted without objection. Quorum 185, majority 231, 2/3 308, 7/8 404.

  3. paulie Post author

    Knapp: A note about rumors

    When I report something as a rumor, please keep in mind that I am reporting it as a rumor.

    Seriously.

    If I know that X is true, and can prove (or present credible, non-anonymous testimony) that it’s true, I won”t call it a rumor, I’ll report it as fact.

    I try to avoid words like “verified,” “confirmed” and “validated” when reporting rumors, lest that confuse the reader and make it look like I’m reporting fact. Goest thou now and do likewise.

  4. Andrew

    A Note From Ernest Hancock to LP National Delegates

    [url=ernesthancock.org]ernesthancock.org[/url]

    (BTW – I am writing from a small caravan going to St. Louis and we are east of Gallup, New Mexico on I-40 right now, 10:00pm Wednesday. We plan on driving straight through so that we are at the hotel in time for the Suns/Lakers game Thursday night 🙂
    Those that know me, and others that have witnessed my previous efforts, likely understand why I do the things that I do and what I aim to accomplish in St. Louis.
    Very soon (if not already) the vast majority of Americans (along with the rest of the planet) will come to the realization that they are all victims of the largest swindle/robbery in human history,… and they will be searching for an accurate explanation. Libertarianism provides a very useful road map to what happened, who/what was responsible and how to avoid the same mistakes in the future. But ‘off ramps’ to detours that take us meandering through the same unprincipled wilderness that got us in this mess will be of no use to a ‘Generation Next’ that has a detailed 3D online map in their hip pocket.
    This decentralization of information is only beginning to be felt by a liberty starved planet and attempts to negotiate our principles for a place at the establishment’s media table will backfire just as it did in the 2008 presidential election cycle.
    Another election cycle of LPUS’ documented compromises on libertarian principle will make it very unlikely, as a political party, we’ll legitimately be able to compete at a national level in the future as a standard bearer for libertarianism. I am of the opinion that information availability is so ubiquitous now, that the ‘Liberty Nexus’ that was the best trait of the LPUS will be replaced by too many sources of contacts and information to keep track of. Politics is about to be replaced with communities that will attempt to create the freedom denied them by layers of government,… without asking permission.
    What if I really really believe that the future will have fresh young minds embracing libertarianism as the only consistent and understandable path to peace and prosperity? Then positioning ourselves so that we are the obvious destination for those seeking exactly what we offer is a very good idea. Since many (enough) that I associate with are also of this opinion, we chose to make our advocacy of no-compromise libertarianism a blazing torch everywhere possible.
    In the near future, freedom communities will likely be virtual and without borders or boundaries. Governments, states, countries and even languages will have less and less to do with an individual’s interactions than a simple listing on the contemporary cousin of craigslist with servers based in orbit or on the Moon.
    Libertarianism is ‘the philosophy for the stars’ and to think in smaller terms is an abandonment of the future for the LPUS. The future is why St. Louis is so important to many that support my effort. The economic tragedy coming, that is only in the early stages, provides a rare opportunity to help many millions,… not just when they need it the most, but when they are also seeking it the most. And they have already abandoned the ‘lame-stream media,… the media that is soooo last century’ in search of the truth.
    We have done our best to make our advocacy clear, and our long track record of principled activism has accomplished several things; government abuses of individual rights have been exposed while branding us as defenders of individual freedom, available resources in support of such advocacy are directed towards the most effective uses of those resources, inspiration of an entirely new generation of freedom activists have been continually nurtured.
    I am prepared and eager to represent the future and inspire a flood of fresh and energetic activists, that are already experienced and networked with each other, to come and make use of the Libertarian Party at a national/international level to free as many minds as possible in as short a time as possible to save as many lives as possible. But should the LPUS’ words/silence and actions/inactions allow the perception of it being less effective a tool as the many others available, then it will continue to wither.
    My documenting of all LNC chair debates and appearances across the country of every candidate participating has been a deliberate act of making it very clear to future freedom activists that the choice in St Louis was a fully informed one. These documented discussions will be of much greater importance months, years and even decades later to those needing to determine where and how best to direct their time and resources to expand human freedom. I’m working very hard to make that investment the Libertarian Party of the United States.

    [img]http://www.ernesthancock.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/lovenotwarwht600.jpg[/img]

  5. Andrew

    A Note From Ernest Hancock to LP National Delegates

    ernesthancock.org]ernesthancock.org

    (BTW – I am writing from a small caravan going to St. Louis and we are east of Gallup, New Mexico on I-40 right now, 10:00pm Wednesday. We plan on driving straight through so that we are at the hotel in time for the Suns/Lakers game Thursday night 🙂
    Those that know me, and others that have witnessed my previous efforts, likely understand why I do the things that I do and what I aim to accomplish in St. Louis.
    Very soon (if not already) the vast majority of Americans (along with the rest of the planet) will come to the realization that they are all victims of the largest swindle/robbery in human history,… and they will be searching for an accurate explanation. Libertarianism provides a very useful road map to what happened, who/what was responsible and how to avoid the same mistakes in the future. But ‘off ramps’ to detours that take us meandering through the same unprincipled wilderness that got us in this mess will be of no use to a ‘Generation Next’ that has a detailed 3D online map in their hip pocket.
    This decentralization of information is only beginning to be felt by a liberty starved planet and attempts to negotiate our principles for a place at the establishment’s media table will backfire just as it did in the 2008 presidential election cycle.
    Another election cycle of LPUS’ documented compromises on libertarian principle will make it very unlikely, as a political party, we’ll legitimately be able to compete at a national level in the future as a standard bearer for libertarianism. I am of the opinion that information availability is so ubiquitous now, that the ‘Liberty Nexus’ that was the best trait of the LPUS will be replaced by too many sources of contacts and information to keep track of. Politics is about to be replaced with communities that will attempt to create the freedom denied them by layers of government,… without asking permission.
    What if I really really believe that the future will have fresh young minds embracing libertarianism as the only consistent and understandable path to peace and prosperity? Then positioning ourselves so that we are the obvious destination for those seeking exactly what we offer is a very good idea. Since many (enough) that I associate with are also of this opinion, we chose to make our advocacy of no-compromise libertarianism a blazing torch everywhere possible.
    In the near future, freedom communities will likely be virtual and without borders or boundaries. Governments, states, countries and even languages will have less and less to do with an individual’s interactions than a simple listing on the contemporary cousin of craigslist with servers based in orbit or on the Moon.
    Libertarianism is ‘the philosophy for the stars’ and to think in smaller terms is an abandonment of the future for the LPUS. The future is why St. Louis is so important to many that support my effort. The economic tragedy coming, that is only in the early stages, provides a rare opportunity to help many millions,… not just when they need it the most, but when they are also seeking it the most. And they have already abandoned the ‘lame-stream media,… the media that is soooo last century’ in search of the truth.
    We have done our best to make our advocacy clear, and our long track record of principled activism has accomplished several things; government abuses of individual rights have been exposed while branding us as defenders of individual freedom, available resources in support of such advocacy are directed towards the most effective uses of those resources, inspiration of an entirely new generation of freedom activists have been continually nurtured.
    I am prepared and eager to represent the future and inspire a flood of fresh and energetic activists, that are already experienced and networked with each other, to come and make use of the Libertarian Party at a national/international level to free as many minds as possible in as short a time as possible to save as many lives as possible. But should the LPUS’ words/silence and actions/inactions allow the perception of it being less effective a tool as the many others available, then it will continue to wither.
    My documenting of all LNC chair debates and appearances across the country of every candidate participating has been a deliberate act of making it very clear to future freedom activists that the choice in St Louis was a fully informed one. These documented discussions will be of much greater importance months, years and even decades later to those needing to determine where and how best to direct their time and resources to expand human freedom. I’m working very hard to make that investment the Libertarian Party of the United States.

  6. Michael H. Wilson

    I have a feeling that we will continue to get reports from Andrew as he roams throughout the country over the next few months lost in cyberspace.

  7. wolfefan

    Hi Rhys – not sure if you’re serious or not. Just in case – Wayne Allyn Root.

  8. Eternaverse

    Is there not a single pop machine in the whole renaissance hotel? I haven’t found one.

    I just had to walk to a cafe down the street to get a Pepsi. I guess they might have pops to go at the hotel restaurant but I’m guessing they are way over priced.

  9. Rhys Blavier

    @wolfefan,

    Thanks. That makes sense. I tend to not think in terms of acronyms so I frequently miss the obvious answers.

    Sincerely,

    Rhys

  10. Rhys Blavier

    After hearing Root at the Leadership Conference in Austin, I wonder how he can expect anyone to believe that he would support a “big tent” LP, unless his idea of a big tent is to include moderate conservative as well as rabid, tea-party-style far right conservatives. The man made no secret that he believes that the LP is and must be a far-right party. As a liberal / progressive libertarian I see no place, acceptance or comfort for any of us who don’t drink the far-right’s kool-aid in his vision of the LP.

  11. Rhys Blavier

    Root also sounded to me like he thinks that the LP can (under HIM, of course) be absolutely swimming in money if we would simply accept his view that the proper role for the LP is as the whore of the far-right. The man seriously scared me when I heard him speak.

    Question, if he has the abilities that he claims to have to raise untold millions of dollars, why didn’t he and Barr have such a small war-chest? From the sounds of it, he could raise so much money that the members of the LP would never need to actually support the LP finacially and that Party conventions and meetings could be fully funded from his godlike ability to make the mana fall from heaven, itself.

  12. Melty

    now with electric voting voted down, don’t be thinking time’ll be saved handcounting “instant” runoff, cuz it won’t

    also, by allowing voters to rank not all candidates and including nota, you make it likely that instant runoff’ll yield no majority

  13. John Amendall

    Raymond, on your floor of the hotel there is a room with an ice machine – free ice – and a soda pop machine. I think it was $2 for a pop when I was there Friday night. Best.

  14. Hey Rhys @18

    The fastest growing political market segment is conservative libertarian. You would have the LP condemn itself to both political irrelevancy and a loser ideology. Socialism is the opposite of libertarianism. Socialism mean the suppression of individual wishes, dreams, values for the supposed good of the state (read: good of the rulers of the state). Libertarianism is much more closely aligned with Constitutional principles of individual rights and inalienable freedoms.

    Rethink your position.

  15. Rhys Blavier

    @18,

    Socialism is NOT the opposite of Libertarianism as Libertarianism is on the Totalitarian Anarchism scale. It can be anyplace on the economic (left – right) scale and the social values scale.

    I have been thinking about this a LOT lately. The conclusion that I have come to is that a government can be designed to the ultimate benefit of either the State / Party; business / corporate interests; or the interest of the people (individuals) at the expense of the other two. Thus, there would be three primary styles of government:

    1.) In a capitalistis / mecantile / corporatistic State, the interests of the State / Party and of the people / individual must be suppressed in order to give the ultimate benefits of society to the business / corporate interests.

    2.) In a communistic State, the interests of business / corporations and of the people / individuals must be suppressed in order to give the ultimate benefits of society to the State / Party interests.

    3.) In a socialistic State, the interests of business / corporations and of the State / Party must be suppressed in order to give the ultimate benefits of society to the people / individuals.

    (If you want to, you could also throw religion / theocracy into the mix as a fourth factor.)

  16. Rhys Blavier

    @18,

    There is a second issue which your comment raised and I wanted to deal with it in a separate comment, also.

    “You would have the LP condemn itself to both political irrelevancy and a loser ideology.”

    Here you make the same fundamental mistake that the Parties, our governments and much of the media makes. That mistake is to think that the majority of people are looking for a “home” Party of ideology. With the rise of instant communications / the 24-hour news cycle / the Internet, only a small percentage of the people permanently align themselves (or WANT to align themselves) with any particular ideology or give their loyalty to any particular factor in their lives OTHER than what is best for them at any given moment.

    Obama’s election was not some kind of “tidal wave” shift to the Democratic Party / liberal ideology or agenda; it was the people saying “well the Republicans / conservatives have fucked us over so we will give y’all a chance to do better.” Any kind of political damage which might be done to the Democrats this year will NOT be a statement that the “liberal ideology” has failed but rather a statement that “we” are losing faith in the Democrats to give us what we wants. Just as Ross Perot’s “Reform Party” did not last, neither will the “Tea Parties”. EVERYTHING in politicas, every political shift will be nothing more than a snapshot at a particular moment of the people saying that they are not happy with the people / Party in office. Gone are the days of the die-hard Republicans / Democrats / conservatives / liberals. As long as no Party understand and can respond appropriately to that reality, we won’t have ANY stability in American governments.

  17. Rhys Blavier

    @18,

    In the end, the only “loser ideology” ( I can see from THAT term that you are obviously a keen student of modern political science) which be those ideologies that don’t make it easy for the American people. Even an “established” third-party, like the Libertarian Party, will achieve nothing as long as it takes the people for granted and assumes that any movement towards the Party will not be a sign of a shift to libertarian ideologies but rather a momentary opportunity for the Party to demonstrate that it ready to be taken seriously by the American people… for this moment. We can NOTbuild upon such foundations of shifting sand. We can only hold onto those grains of sand for the moment and, if we are smart, use them to build a sand castle which is, of course, a non-permant construction that will eventually be washed away by the oceans, tides, or the rains.

  18. Alan Pyeatt

    “In a socialistic State, the interests of business / corporations and of the State / Party must be suppressed in order to give the ultimate benefits of society to the people / individuals.”

    Shirley, you can’t be Sirius….

  19. Rhys M. Blavier

    @Alan,

    What makes you think I’m not serious? I understand the difference between socialism and soviet-style communism. They have different names for a reason.

  20. Not so wonderful Libs ......... Lake

    Knapp: A note about rumors

    “When I report something as a rumor, please keep in mind that I am reporting it as a rumor.

    Seriously. If I know that X is true, and can prove (or present credible, non-anonymous testimony) that it’s true, I won”t call it a rumor, I’ll report it as fact.”

    [ Such as Doctor George Phillies’ state ment that the LP is THE ONLY 21st Century American PEACE PARTY —- yeah, sure, right! ]

  21. Clad Assent

    RB@25:
    “We can only hold onto those grains of sand for the moment and, if we are smart, use them to build a sand castle which is, of course, a non-permant construction that will eventually be washed away by the oceans, tides, or the rains.”

    In the Buddhist sense, there is no such things as a permanent structure. Your point is understood, but I wanted to raise your attention to the fact that if you take some heated limestone and gypsum grind it up and mix it with that sand and the water…

    …you get a castle made of concrete.

    Think outside the box and you may be able to build those few grains of sand you can hold at a time higher than anyone thought possible.

    Now I would, as a Libertarian, remind the reader that people are not grains of sand. You need “sign-on” before you start attaching them with concrete. I recommend beer and camaraderie as we received analogs for gypsum and limestone but every concrete maker has their own formula.

  22. Trent Hill

    Jill–about to report it. Give me 20 minutes. Also reporting on Judicial Committee.

  23. Clad Assent

    NSWLP.L@32:
    “and yet they seem to hold on to Tibet with both hands and most of their teeth”

    The karma of others can hinder the enlightened and empowered Buddha.

    Tibetans hold on to Tibet with their teeth much as you would your own home were the Chinese marching in. Most Tibetans are Buddhist.

  24. Clad Assent

    JP@31:

    From @LPNational Twitter feed:

    Winners of LNC Member At-Large: Marry Ruwart, Wayne-Allyn Root, Bill Redpath, David Nolan, Kevin Knedler.

    I am sure Trent’s comprehensive report will soon follow.

  25. Rhys M. Blavier

    Clad Assent @30

    “but I wanted to raise your attention to the fact that if you take some heated limestone and gypsum grind it up and mix it with that sand and the water…

    …you get a castle made of concrete.”

    Actually, that is not unversally true. My family lived in Saudi Arabia for about 5 years in the late-70s – mid-8os. On of the pieces of information my step-father leaned is that the sand in Arabia can NOT be used to build with because it is so old and so windvlown that the grains have been turned into almost perfect spheres, with the result that they can’t be used as a binder.

    On the other hand, one of the reasons that the stuff made by the Romans is superior to that made with the standard modern formula is that the Romans did NOT use sand a a binder, they used volcanic ash.

    Thinking OUTSIDE of the box would, in my opinion, lead us to find better materials to build with and stronger foundation on which to build.

  26. Clad Assent

    RMB@36:
    “On the other hand, one of the reasons that the stuff made by the Romans is superior to that made with the standard modern formula is that the Romans did NOT use sand a a binder, they used volcanic ash.”

    Very true.

    The diversity and irregularity of the grains is very important for strength.

    I still recommend camaraderie and beer as binder for political cement.

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