Join us at the 2014 LPO Annual Business Convention!
The LPO will hold it’s Annual Business Convention at 9AM on Saturday, March 22 at the Salem Red Lion Hotel. Among other things, party officers will be elected, delegates to the national convention will be selected, and changes to the LPO’s platform will be considered. This is a piviotal year for the LPO as it is slated to emerge from litigation and resume the process of advancing limited government through work in the elective, appointive, legislative, and initiative political processes.
Those eligible to participate in this event include LPO Honorary Lifetime Members and “Regular” dues-paying members whose dues are paid and who are members in good standing. “Registered” members of the LPO, registered Oregon voters affiliated with the Libertarian Party who have not paid dues or affirmed the non-aggression statement (shown below), may observe the proceedings.
There will be an Italian lunch buffet featuring a panel discussion among Libertarians who have won election to public office in Oregon. After the convention formally adjourns there will be a workshop for those interested in seeking appointment to local non-partisan offices throughout Oregon. There is no charge for LPO members to participate in the convention itself, but those wishing to stay overnight at the Red Lion hotel and/or purchase the buffet lunch may make their purchases using the PayPal links shown below.
Join or Renew Your Membership! – $50.00
To participate in the March 22nd convention as a voting delegate, you must be a current member in good standing of the Libertarian Party of Oregon. Annual dues are $50 and you can pay securely online by clicking on the “BUY NOW” button shown at left You must be at least fifteen years old to join the LPO.
By joining in this way you are agreeing with the following statement: “I hold that all individual have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in any manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.” Because all members indicate that they agree with this statement, individuals may join the LPO even if they are not registered to vote as a Libertarian Party member.
The mailing address for the Libertarian Party of Oregon is 7100 SW Hampton, Suite 202, Tigard, Oregon 97223. Those wishing to contact the LPO may do so by clicking on this email address: [email protected]. The Libertarian Party of Oregn is America’s third largest political party, featuring elected and appointed public office holders in Oregon and across America.
1 Convention Lunch and 1 Night’s Lodging – $130.00
If you click the “BUY NOW” button shown at right, you will purchase ONE night of lodging (Fri. Mar. 8) in a deluxe room with a king-sized bed, a queen-sized bed, or with ttwo queen-sized beds. If you have a preference, send an email to [email protected] stating your preference. Lodging includes a complimentary hot breakfast. If you will be sharing a room with others who also want a convention lunch, purchase their lunch(es) separately. Price includes the lunch and lodging only. You will be responsible for any incidental expenses charged to your room.
1 Convention Lunch – $25.00
If you click the “BUY NOW” button shown at right, you will purchase ONE convention lunch, an Italian buffet to be served during a break in the 2013 LPO Annual Convention or at lunchtime if the convention has adjourned. There will be a panel discussion of Libertarians who have been won election to local office in Oregon during this lunch. Lodging is not included in this price. If you wish to purchase more than one lunch on this site, make separate purchases. If you wish lodging at the Red Lion Inn AND a convention lunch, purchase the lodging and lunch package shown above.
Additionally, this was snail mailed to Oregon Libertarians:
And in IPR comments on a previous post, Richard Burke wrote, in part:
The LPO as organized under Tim Reeves and bylaws approved by members in convention does not consist of a only few people. We are a full blown organization that is raising money, collecting dues, building membership, and will be holding the 2014 LPO Annual Convention in Salem on March 22. The members on our side are those who do not just meet for dinner and go for hikes (though there is nothing wrong with that) but actually donate money, support races successfully electing Libertarians to local office, establishing a legislative presence and so on. In the next year we will hold a candidate nominating convention and will be working to get Libertarians appointed to public office where openings and vacancies exist.
It has been almost forgotten that near majority of Oregon national party members signed a petition to dis-affiliate Oregon after what Wagner did (others were disgusted by the internal conflict and didn’t respond while a few supported Wagner), but this effort was abandoned when we learned we might lose ballot status. These LNC members are on our side, and they are a substantial group.
My point here is that it would be a mistake to think that the “Reeves Group” consists only of the lawsuit plaintiffs. It consists of the core of that portion of LPO membership which demonstrated that it could actually achieve political success. Unlike Wagner’s LPO whose membership figures are artificially high because thousands were “defined” into being members without their knowledge or consent, members of the Reeves LPO have all signed the non-aggression pledge and have paid dues giving them some skin in the game. It would be political folly for the LNC or any responsible body to alienate them further.
Yeah, OAI should dissociate from him.
Well maybe not officially… but when he was the state coordinator for the Johnson campaign he was using the campaign events to sell memberships to the fake LPO
Nope.
Maybe the our America initiative is selling the registrations now.
I guess you could ask Burke if you really want to go.
Joe
The registration website still seems to be down.
Dunno. Website was down last time I checked.
Is it too late to register for this convention?
The LSLA is bringing it up, not the LNC.
Michael H. Wilson @ January 12, 2014 at 11:33 am
THANKS.
I am sharing that video far and wide!
She’d be a perfect speaker for the LP convention. IMO it is exactly what the organization needs to hear.
Joe
I don’t know if this video will mean anything to the members of the LP but I think it is worth watching and considering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVKaXUB4EFg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Yes,
Paulie, I’m aware that the decision was made. But strangely the topic keeps popping back up in various ways and people keep trying to turn the debate into who is more justified in his position Burke or Wagner.
The merits of the case keep being debated and the LSLA seems to have fuzzy criteria for who is or isn’t a part of their group.
In addition despite the Judicial committee decision that Wagner was the chair of the LPO, The national party failed to accept the delegates that he submitted and instead chose to seat delegates from a group that excludes most of the members of the LPO.
This has created a distrust of national amongst those of us in Oregon.
I would like to participate in our upcoming convention in Ohio, but until I am certain that my delegation will be recognized–instead of excluded due to some last minute political maneuvering–I am hesitant to even renew my membership with the national party.
We did (although it took a judicial committee order). LSLA is a separate matter though.
Stewart,
I agree with you completely that this situation is toxic. I have tried to tell the Burke/Reeves group the same thing I told Wagner–Please drop the law suit they don’t help us.
It is with the idea of getting beyond this that I recommend that the LNC make the criteria external.
If they take sides based on anything beyond who the SOS recognizes, they are doomed to be stuck in the fight and continue to listen to the argument. The best strategy is to stay out of the fight completely, and defer the issue to the laws of Oregon.
Honestly, I don’t expect that to happen. I expect that you and others on the national level will keep the fight going.
What is ironic (or maybe just sad) is that most of Wagner’s ability to cause problems comes from people who oppose him. If those same people merely said that they don’t like him because they think he is an ass, and will only work with him to the extent that they must–he would lose most of his influence.
It is the conflict that allows Wagner to be influential.
Wagner knows this and he expects that you will keep doing what you are doing.
Now you know this too.
Will you be able to stop?
Brad
“I’m still at a loss to figure out what the LNC actually does other than argue with itself. It seems to be little more than a ragtag band of sociopaths, snake oil salesmen and well-intentioned idiots. They somehow manage to suck up hundreds of thousands dollars each year from well meaning libertarians and yet only spend a pittance on actual politics or promoting liberty. It’s quite the racket if you have low standards.”
Sounds just like the LP at all levels.
Weren’t you the one who sent us that excruciatingly long and boring video? If it wasn’t you, then I retract the portion of my comments regarding you being the one who contacted the LNC. If it was you, then I stand by my statement. It was a DVD (or at least that is how I received the copy I was directed to view).
You may recall that I have said several times that I do not consider your opposition to be entirely blameless. I will not comment on the meeting you alluded to, other than to say that I was in the room during executive session and therefore cannot comment. The reason given for executive session can be found in the minutes of the 2007 meeting in Charleston, and requires no comment. Mr Burke’s resignation immediately following the executive session is also in the same minutes, and requires no comment. I can neither confirm or deny myself or anyone else whispering “good riddance!” as he left the room.
As you can see, you and I do not have diametrically opposed positions on every issue.
Brad, are you talking about the committee itself, national HQ, or both?
Two Years
Brad,
How long did you serve on the LNC?
I’m still at a loss to figure out what the LNC actually does other than argue with itself. It seems to be little more than a ragtag band of sociopaths, snake oil salesmen and well-intentioned idiots. They somehow manage to suck up hundreds of thousands dollars each year from well meaning libertarians and yet only spend a pittance on actual politics or promoting liberty. It’s quite the racket if you have low standards.
That is about the closest I can find… the implicit request to ask for censure of people who are part of the committee who were interfering in Oregon.
From 10/10/07
Dear members of the LNC,
You may recall several months ago a somewhat heated discussion about some National Members involving themselves in an internal dispute in the Libertarian Party of Oregon.
Now I can perfectly understand why Aaron Starr would invest $9000 to help a personal friend of his fight a lawsuit that would have compelled the party to produce accurate books. I can also understand why M Carling would show up to effectively chair our state convention.
Their personal involvement in the political activities of the Libertarian Party of Oregon has been an ongoing concern for quite some time. It is also understandable why, when their agents, who have been assisting them for quite some time, have lost their position in the organization, Aaron and M would feel compelled to continue interference through other agents.
Ambition is a curious thing. It can cause people to engage in activities they should likely know they should not, and it can cause us to sacrifice principles we once pledged to hold dear.
In the end, the interference in the internal affairs of the Libertarian Party of Oregon by people who hold positions in the LNC has endured long enough. We have effectively declared our independence from these individuals. Their continued activity within our organization or through agents will be considered an act of aggression.
We were content to manage our own affairs and spend 100% of our resources building a worthwhile organization that promotes individual freedom, responsibility and political achievement within our own borders and allow this recent trans-border unpleasantness to go unanswered.
Unfortunately, it seems that our southern neighbors have other ideas. Members of this LNC should question why two of their, in my opinion more aggressive and ambitious individuals, are so dedicated towards the control and consolidation of their influence within a geography greater than their own. For what purpose could they possibly gain by making attempt to subvert or displace leadership in the State of Oregon?
Neither M Carling nor Aaron Starr have contacted me nor the entirety of the committee in Oregon directly, which would imply that they intend to try to maintain the illusion of covert operation. So like with all things, we will respond by casting the bright light of day on this activity. If we find that the lamp we used lacked the necessary brightness, as per our standard, we will use a larger lamp.
If greater public education and more facts about these matters are needed, then we will simply provide such until the equitable remedy we deserve is reached.
I would hope that members of the LNC would consider the consequences of permitting these two individuals, and possible others, to continue to interfere in the affairs of the Libertarian Party of Oregon. One should also consider if they wish to consider working with individuals who take an authoritarian attitude of influence and control over another state organization. It has been my experience that you cannot trust such individuals, who house that form of personal sanctimony and ambition, to behave ethically.
Sincerely,
Wes Wagner
Mostly considered State Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Oregon, though slightly in dispute due to procedural technicalities that no one except some out of state individuals seem to care about, and which will likely soon be remedied.
PS: Attached are the documents of Aaron Starr’s contributions and M Carling’s convention package from the time he chaired our convention in everything but name only. The ~16 hours of video of him holding the gable will be given to anyone who requests who has a genuine need for it.
As far as the current status of Oregon, you misread that as well. There was a libertarian revolution in Oregon against the imperialism of Burke, and the LNC. We are united in many common causes and the battle lines are nowhere near equal or split down the middle. The LNC joined in with a known oppressor and backed him and is unrepentant.
I theoretically could call the vote to dissolve our relationships with the LNC and it would pass … but that is no way to do business. We will have much more time and conversation and consensus generation before that occurs.
Stewart,
Produce an email where I was asking the LNC to take sides in Oregon. I barely ever addressed the LNC until AFTER the organization attacked our sovereignty in 2010, save a few messages where I was pointing out Richard was doing things to them, or was claiming he was going to get support from them.
Come on… back up your accusations.
Also, Burke stole the national fundraising database information with the help of an intern he was canoodling around with (resulting in that intern being let go) and I am told that Burke was “asked” to resign his alternate position on the LNC in a closed door meeting, from which he emerged and announced his resignation.
Btw, 3 years later… national got involved without a full process of discovery — and embarassed themselves.
Stewart,
I DID NOT ASK THE LNC TO DO SOMETHING, that is a outright lie.
WTF are you smoking?
Here is an email from that time:
1/20/07
Members of the LNC,
I am writing because at this point in time the Executive Director of
the Libertarian Party of Oregon is posturing that he is about to
receive material support in his campaign of suppression in the State
of Oregon.
I would advise that it would be beyond reckless for such material aid
to be given without first even discussing the issues with the
membership in Oregon that opposes the alleged illegal acts and
violations of our governing documents, rules and state law. This
leaves us with only two notions we can infer: either our executive
director is lying (though we would hardly consider that a surprise),
or that national is motioning to take a deliberate and careless act.
Richard Burke is attempting to hijack national resources and
perpetrate a fraud against the national donor base. At this time
Richard Burke is accused (with supporting evidence) of forgery,
conversion of party funds for personal use, diverting party funds into
his own personal bank account, and election tampering among many other
offenses of fraud and general dishonesty. He has regularly manipulated
the party membership list to remove valid members who he has in the
past offended, and again we have all the evidence to prove out that
allegation as well.
In addition, the Libertarian Party of Oregon has over $6000 in
discrepancies in their campaign finance filings and past treasurers
have testified to me of Richard’s abuse of the debit card to purchase
groceries for his home. The full scope of the abuses are far too
numerous to detail here.
It should also be noted that this movement for reform in the
Libertarian Party of Oregon has been undertaken by members of
leadership that span over 10 years, including former state chairs,
treasurers, secretaries, officers, and even founding members of the
Libertarian Party of Oregon.
I am also certain that Richard has not properly explained the nature
of our lawsuit against the LPO. We have filed against them for an
Alternative Writ of Mandamus, a legal order that compels the LPO to
obey its own rules and the laws of the state. Nothing more. If they
were not corrupt, crooked, dishonest and had not allowed the process
and system to become a mockery of members rights and compliance, it
would be a pedestrian task to answer this writ in the affirmative.
They could merely submit an accurate set of books and the minutes of
the meetings where the contracts were approved and the judge would
admonish us and we would look like great fools.
We have asked them to do nothing more than to have done what should
have been done properly and legally already.
In response to all of this, and in my speculation because they are
incapable of producing valid financial documents and justifying
contracts which have been signed but never approved by the state
committee, Adam Mayer and Christiana Mayer have resigned from office.
Previous vice-chair Frank Dane has also resigned.
The new Chair, Alfredo Torrejon, needed less than a week to violate
state law and party bylaws by declaring that he is endowed with
emergency powers not granted to him by any governing documents. He has
already violated State Law by taking such “emergency actions” without
complying with the definition of an emergency. Our bylaws allow for no
such actions, and if they did, state party law would trump it.
As you can probably tell, this situation is extremely complicated, and
in my opinion, were national to get involved without a full process of
discovery it has the potential to become a great embarrassment for the
libertarian movement.
Sincerely,
Wes Wagner
Member, Libertarians for Reform
Fred,
I thought you meant “outside” outsider. I agree that there is a difference in perspective. I am, of course, not privy to the current state of sentiment of libertarians in Oregon, but I would hope that they understand that the leaders of both factions are, in different ways, toxic to the party.
I first encountered the Oregon LP at the Portland convention. I was actually quite impressed with what appeared on the surface to be a very co-operative organization. It was not until about a year later when a situation was brought to the attention of the LNC by Mr Wagner that I became aware of the internal hostility that had already been growing for a number of years.
At that time, Mr Wagner expected us to do something, when we had no authority to intervene. In the more recent incident, the roles reversed and Mr Wagner, who had pleaded for us to act before, now wanted us to sit back and watch him commit a coup.
We did not sponsor Mr Burke, nor did we orchestrate a coup on his part, as Mr Wagner has alleged. In fact, I — as very much an insider at the time — heard nothing about Oregon until I was told (after the fact) about what took place at their convention.
A number of the things that Mr Wagner has written on IPR over the past few years are false or misleading. The same can be said regarding his opposition, leading me to the statement that both sides are toxic.
But regardless of what got us here, the “Wagner faction” holds control of the party’s ballot status. We need to move forward, and I would hope that the situation can be resolved. Mr Wagner needs to be harshly discouraged by members of his state party from continuing his practice of threatening the LNC. It did not start the feud between Mr Burke and Mr Wagner. This has been going on a very long time. It needs to end, but that is not something that either side appears ready to do.
I am certainly not going to say that the other side is completely blameless, but Mr Wagner needs to understand that his continued threats not only serve to damage his state party’s image, but makes the task more difficult for those of you in Oregon who wish to move forward.
Not sure why my name is in quotes and I’m not interested in debating it either, just warning you in case you did not know. I think everyone except Andy is clear that I am not you, but several people seem to think that I am this Randy guy that I never heard of. I never even saw his comments, can someone point them out so I can at least see what they are? What Andy considers to be evidence is in this thread https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2014/01/virginia-libertarians-likely-to-field-candidate-for-arlington-county-board and is so pathetic that it would be laughable, although I feel a bit guilty for laughing at a man’s mental disease.
“Spence” — I’m not interested in debating Andy’s mental status, or whatever it is the two of you are arguing about. As long as we’re clear that I’m not you or vice versa or whatever. He certainly hasn’t determined that you and I are the same person on the basis of “evidence,” because there’s no possibility of any such evidence existing.
Tom – maybe you don’t realize it, Andy is actually quite disturbed; there is no point in taking anything he says seriously. I’ve already told him I’m not you, not Randy, not a nazi or a government agent, but he keeps insisting that I am based on what only he considers to be “evidence.” Not that it matters what he thinks, but it’s just a defense mechanism because he does not want to confront the facts that I have presented that the LP is worse than useless.
Everyone else – how can you possibly think that caring about this “issue” is not making you seem almost as crazy as poor Andy?
“Hey, it’s ‘Spence’ or ‘Randy’ or Tom Knapp, or whatever identity he’s going under today.”
The identity I’m going under today is “Thomas L. Knapp,” although “Tom Knapp” is a clear placeholder for same. That’s the identity I’ve gone by for 47 years and change. To the best of my recollection, I have never gone under any other identity; and I’ve certainly never used any other identity here.
Andy – please keep it up – you are making yourself look really silly here, even for those who can’t see for themselves how the LP is a scam. http://www.mentalhealthhelpline.ca/ would help you if only you realized you need the help. So sad that you don’t.
Stewart,
I was speaking of you as an outsider of the LPO.
You may have a great deal of experience hearing about it as a member of the LNC.
But that does not make you an Oregonian or a member of the LPO.
“Thomas L. Knapp January 11, 2014 at 6:42 pm
‘And we all know that if this fight is still going on in June the delegates will probably be voting again on who to seat as the Oregon Delegation.’
And that, in effect, is a vote on whether or not the delegates want the LPO, or some other organization, represented at the convention. Seating delegations from organizations other that affiliates is a bad precedent. If the Reeves Gang can be seated to represent Oregon what’s the purpose of affiliation with the LNC by the actual LPO? And given such precedent, is there any particular reason that the Republican Party of Florida, the Democratic Party of California, and the ASPCA of Montana, can’t also be seated?”
Hey, it’s “Spence” or “Randy” or Tom Knapp, or whatever identity he’s going under today.
That’s not my understanding. As I understand it there is no spreadsheet, but rather a login link which only Wagner got. The notice about writing to get the link was sent to the LSLA list, but that’s a separate issue. The preadsheet was only done for Oregon, not any other state, in 2012, and as far as I know is not being done for any state this time.
Unfortunately,this time the spread sheet information was only sent to the Reeves group; Wagner got it indirectly.
I discussed this today with the National Secretary. He was subject to the impression that the data had been sent out via the list of state chairs maintained by the LNC, and was surprised to learn that the data had gone out via the LSLA list.
Agreed.
Burke and co may attempt it since they have nothing left to lose … but I suspect they will not get any national support. While the current LNC has done nothing to repair the damage the past LNC did … they have not tried to advance it. Carla Howell did early on but Geoff put a stop to that.
I’ll be surprised if we get the same drama again.
Remember the LNC created the contest in leadership inOregon. Without the LNC actually encouraging and sponsoring Burke to attempt a coup, hiring the lawyer, encouraging the lawsuit, etc. There would not have been this great contest over who seat. The powers in control in 2012 were all setting up and creating what happened.
In do not observe the same thing this time.
Different people this time (at least some of them). Also, what happened last time was a spreadsheet was emailed to both Burke/Reeves and Wagner, contrary to what was done in every other state, so they both submitted their lists. My understanding is that is not being done again.
The information about the “link” is important and certainly gives Wagner an edge, but during the last convention both factions submitted delegate lists and the credentials committee voted on which to accept and then took it to the floor. What is to prevent a similar submission this year?
And whoever “got to” the committee can “get to them” again. Political pressure will be turned on full force. With the precedent of the vote in 2012, the argument will be made that the convention already decided who it believes the real affiliate is.
It was close last time, so I am thinking the composition of the credentials committee this time will make a difference. That, and the delegation link being sent to Wagner, rather than the unique spreadsheet method last time.
I believe it is possible that they will. I have no “inside information” or other “evidence” to support this belief, other than my own analysis of the game that is being played out by the Oregon factions, the LSLA, and others.
It is certainly only a guess, but an educated guess.
I missed the part about criminal charges.
Only if the credentials committee makes it an issue again.
“And we all know that if this fight is still going on in June the delegates will probably be voting again on who to seat as the Oregon Delegation.”
And that, in effect, is a vote on whether or not the delegates want the LPO, or some other organization, represented at the convention. Seating delegations from organizations other that affiliates is a bad precedent. If the Reeves Gang can be seated to represent Oregon what’s the purpose of affiliation with the LNC by the actual LPO? And given such precedent, is there any particular reason that the Republican Party of Florida, the Democratic Party of California, and the ASPCA of Montana, can’t also be seated?
And we all know that if this fight is still going on in June the delegates will probably be voting again on who to seat as the Oregon Delegation. Your argument using the state and state law as justification for throwing out your party ByLaws (a coup) does not win votes with the delegates.
I said nothing about anyone appealing anything. I said you won and that your coup had succeeded. I have said numerous times that it is over.
You are the one writing cryptic messages about “killing” and “criminal charges” against the LNC. Go re-read what you wrote.
Stewart
If you think anyone gets the benefit of appealing this stuff to an authority figure and that it will matter
.. or that i am a madman … you have clearly not been paying attention.
Fred,
You may have missed some of my comments in other threads regarding Oregon. I have stated on several occasions that it is over, the coup was successful, and that although Wagner stole it, he’s the chair. Think Castro. Military coup, leading to a dictatorship. Both Castro and Wagner are still in charge, regardless of whether or not either should be.
I won’t agree with your statement that I’ve been on the outside. While it is true that I am no longer on the LNC, when I was a member I had many long days of my time wasted by this BS, as well as the BS between the Oregon factions going back as far as 2007. I think both sides should step down and let others “heal” the rift in the party.
Wagner’s threats of criminal complaints and of the “death” of the LNC can only be interpreted as those of a madman. If he thinks he’s going to have criminal charges brought up against either the current or past members of the LNC then he’s even more insane than I have believed him to be.
Fred
It is difficult for the LNC to remain neutral on a leadership dispute that was entirely of their manufacture.
They still need to pay reparations and I don’t think they have the moral fiber to do it voluntarily.
Wes
Sometimes criminals complain when something is taken back from them and given to its rightful owners.
Sometimes they have had possession of that which is not theirs for so long they can’t fathom a reality where it does not belong to them.
The caterwauling is intense but it mist be endured and the situation made right.
The LNC will whine when it happens to them.
So will the states and US government.
This is just the way weak people are and you can’t allow their moral and intellectual weakness claim more victims in the hopes of saving them.
They get a few warnings … and then when those are ignored the situation must be set right no matter how much pain it causes the people who have been perpetrating oppression and suppression.
Stewart,
You are making two common errors.
1. You are assuming there are two groups of people in Oregon. I don’t agree that this is true. There are certainly two groups of people in Oregon who have been fighting for the LNC to recognize them as the leaders of the party but there are multiple people with multiple views. From my informal polling, it appears that the vast majority of people in Oregon wish this conflict was over and the majority of us just want a functional party. Unfortunately many of us are left with a choice of either being completely inactive and uninvolved or being active with one of the two factions that are fighting (which often has the affect of alienating those who align with the other fighting faction.)
You have been hearing about this conflict as an outsider for several years and are rightly disgusted by the bad behavior that many people have exhibited. What you have missed is that there are lots of people in Oregon who are open to working with people with diverse views and ready to be active in the party (many are beginning to be active in the party now) but get discouraged because of the fight which is often kept alive by the national party at the cost of our local state party.
2. You are also making the mistake of believing that the LNC has a right to choose who the leaders of Oregon are. The LNC has only one ability in this conflict. They may choose which group they want to affiliate with. Their choice will not change which group has ballot access in Oregon or which group represents the members of the Oregon Libertarian Party.(please see my post above concerning the definition of member). The LNC can choose to make this a choice over which group of people they like better, Which they believe is behaving better, which is more libertarian, or any other criteria they choose. But, I would suggest that the only viable choice they can make is to choose the group based on who has ballot access.
It is, unfortunately, far too easy to see the bad actions of people on all sides of this conflict. I sincerely believe that you, Stewart, really want this conflict to be over and for it to stop taking up the attention of the LNC. The easiest and best way for the LNC to be done with this conflict is to base their affiliation to Oregon on external criteria. Once again I will suggest that the LNC should decide to affiliate with the group based on who has ballot access in Oregon. This would allow the LNC to stop wasting their time on this issue, remain neutral on the conflict, keep an active relationship with the group recognized by the Oregon SOS, and prevent them from alienating all of the registered Libertarians in Oregon.
It would also assure that they have ballot access for the next election and wouldn’t be concerned that they chose to affiliate with a group that does not have ballot access.
Dave,
No–I am not basing the definition on dues. I am basing the definition on the Oregon Revised Statues section that deals with political parties. More specifically I am referring to the provision that provides the definitions used in that section.
I would tell you to go look it up, since it is readily available on the website to anyone who cares to see, but since that seems to be highly overlooked in this debate–I will paste it on this page.
248.002 Definitions. As used in this chapter:
(1) “Committee office” means chairperson, vice chairperson or other office the county or state central committee of a political party creates to govern the business of the committee.
(2) “County clerk” means the county clerk or the county official in charge of elections.
(3) “Elector” means an individual qualified to vote under section 2, Article II, Oregon Constitution.
(4) “Member” means an individual who is registered as being affiliated with the political party. [1979 c.190 §67]
I will repeat that last line because it is apparently evasive to many people.
“MEMBER” means an individual who is REGISTERED as being affiliated with the political party.
Please note that these definitions are not limited to major political parties and are not one of the provisions that are excluded by provision 248.007
I would suggest that the idea of charging dues to members is contrary to provision 248.005 (which is also not excluded by provision 248.007)
“248.005 Parties to insure widest and fairest representation of members. Each political party by rule shall insure the widest and fairest representation of party members in the party organization and activities. Rules shall be adopted by procedures that assure the fair and open participation of all interested party members.”
but that does not change the definition of who is a party member, because a party MEMBER is someone who is REGISTERED as being affiliated with the political party.
If you for some reason are having difficulty with the word “Registered” you might want to look at ORS 247. I would hope that it would be clear to anyone that this is referring to being a registered elector in Oregon.
I am not asking you to like Oregon election law. I am not asking you to agree that these are good rules. I am not asking you to change your opinion that the party should only be run by people that meet your standard of libertarianism.
However, that is the standing definition of who is a member of a political party.
because a member of a political party in Oregon is defined as someone who is ____________________ as being affiliated with the political party.
Can you fill in the blank, or do I need to state it another time?
I can’t figure out who to blame . . . . Oregon or Oracle?
Dave Terry, what do you say about those of us who believes it’s fraud for an entity that is not the Libertarian Party of Oregon to solicit donations? Are you folks ready to face criminal charges?
Burn!
“What IS new (for the L.P.O.) is the idea that just anyone and everyone, simply by putting a check mark next to the word Libertarian on the Voter Registration Card is entitled to have a voice in electing officers, nominating candidates and altering the Constitution and Bylaws.”
So what shall the litmus test be? Someone’s ability to commit plagiarism?
Not all states charge dues, and charging dues is not fraud.
“If charging dues is tantamount to fraud, than the LNC and every state party in the nation is guilty of fraud.”
Figured that out finally?
Fred> The Burke/Reeves group is defining membership to a political party by a definition that they have created and runs in opposition to the definition that the Oregon Secretary of State uses to define party members.<
Are you saying that charging dues for membership runs counter to the definition of the S.O.S for a "political party"? IF SO, that is nonsense. There IS no mention of dues or lack of dues in the statutes. The SOS has taken no stand on that issue. And FURTHER the LPO has been charging dues since day one. It is NOT a new phenomenon.
What IS new (for the L.P.O.) is the idea that just anyone and everyone, simply by putting a check mark next to the word Libertarian on the Voter Registration Card is entitled to have a voice in electing officers, nominating candidates and altering the Constitution and Bylaws.
If charging dues is tantamount to fraud, than the LNC and every state party in the nation is guilty of fraud.
.
I hereby nominate Tim “Don’t Call Me Superman” Reeves as the next Chair of the Libertarian Party of Oregano!
Or is that the Libertarian Party of Origami?
Orgasm?
Orangutan?
Orange Bowl?
Ore Ida?
Well, whatever it is, it sure isn’t the Libertarian Party of Oregon.
Republicans should do the same thing, as should Democrats and all other political parties.
spoken like a true republican operative
Mass suicide by the LP organization at all levels, federal, state and local and in all jurisdictions would be just the thing. The sooner, the better.
Yes Paulie and it pissed me off. He should have said mass suicide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOjVKLv6tlE
You clearly have not been paying attention to how I work Spence.
You should make that a murder-suicide.
Sorry you feel that way Andrew … you will be on the outside looking in on the end.
The LNC attacked the libertarian faction in oregon and we defended ourselves.
The lnc is also unrepentant.
We will kill it
It is over.
Both of the “sides” in Oregon deserve to be horsewhipped.
You forgot 96.5% support in Oregon and first place in the director elections … and that most the delegates in Vegas were supportive of imperialistic actions that warrant a death sentence for the LNC.
We see things entirely differently .. but that does not change the fact that Oregon will win and LNC will destroy itself unless it changes its alignment.
Used to it? What makes you think that I’m not used to it?
What I find interesting, but disgusting, is that we’ll probably be voting on who to seat all over again in June. Ground Hog Day, and I doubt the outcome will change.
You have the support of the government, but they have the support of the delegates — or at least I believe they still will. You rely on the support of the omnipotent state, while they rely on having less delegates disgusted with them than are disgusted with you. You campaigned against them by touting government hacks and loose interpretations of laws (for “major parties”) saying you are in charge. They campaigned by touting your snub of ByLaws and rules agreed to within your own party and then gleefully committing a coup.
And you wonder why the delegates voted against you? You stood up there and said: Mmmm…government good!
Wes,
Younger generation? Tell that to Washington!
oh, and . . .
John Adams
Samuel Adams
Josiah Bartlett
Carter Braxton
Charles Carroll
Samuel Chase
Abraham Clark
George Clymer
William Ellery
William Floyd
Benjamin Franklin
Elbridge Gerry
Button Gwinnett
Lyman Hall
John Hancock
Benjamin Harrison
John Hart
Joseph Hewes
Thomas Heyward, Jr.
William Hooper
Stephen Hopkins
Francis Hopkinson
Samuel Huntington
Thomas Jefferson
Francis Lightfoot Lee
Richard Henry Lee
Francis Lewis
Philip Livingston
Thomas Lynch, Jr.
Thomas McKean
Arthur Middleton
Lewis Morris
Robert Morris
John Morton
Thomas Nelson, Jr.
William Paca
Robert Treat Paine
John Penn
George Read
Caesar Rodney
George Ross
Benjamin Rush
Edward Rutledge
Roger Sherman
James Smith
Richard Stockton
Thomas Stone
George Taylor
Charles Thomson
Matthew Thornton
George Walton
William Whipple
William Williams
James Wilson
John Witherspoon
Oliver Wolcott
George Wythe
Get used to it Stewart… this is precisely how gen-x and younger deal with corrupt power structures … and things are going to start getting much more interesting.
“The Libertarian Party of Oregn (sic) is America’s third largest political party, ”
I think “America” is a typo; surely they mean to say that “The Libertarian Party of Oregn is the third largest of the various groups claiming to be the Libertarian Party of Oregon, based in Portland, within 3 blocks of Voodoo Donuts, wearing green hats and eating bacon maple bars (where the meat greets the sweet) while singing girl scout camp songs.”
Yep, I’ll bet they are the third largest of all those groups.
“Stewart,
Are you saying it’s like deja vu all over again?”
Of course. And with the hope that one of these days we’ll actually see more than just Carol Cleveland’s arm in the last scene…
Oregon is just political voyeurism. First the elk blows up, then the owl….then it’s six o’clock and time for the penguin on the telly to explode.
Yes, it repeats over and over. I’m sick of it, and sick of both sides’ behavior from day one.
Bruce @ January 10, 2014 at 4:01 pm wrote:
“I like Joe’s idea of a pool to bet on how many people show up at the Burke/Reeves conclave. My guess is half a dozen — or about twice as many as last year’s sham.”
Thanks! I’ve entered your entry and have you down for 6 or maybe 9.
What I wrote however was a wager based on how many (quote) members (endquote) show up.
Wes will confirm, I believe, that I have already won the wager, with the only correct number which can possibly be submitted.
🙂
Joe
PS: Just for the record I now realize fully how much I missed being on IPR from November 2012 to November 2013. It’s good to be back!
Zero replies on LNC list so far. I’m not surprised.
Thanks Jill.
It’s Burke, Mark.
Whose photo is on the top of this article?
Very distinguished looking person.
Yes, the Reeves gang is still soliciting checks in the name of the LP of Oregon (though their announcement misspelled the name of our state). And yes, IMNSHO this is fraud.
I like Joe’s idea of a pool to bet on how many people show up at the Burke/Reeves conclave. My guess is half a dozen — or about twice as many as last year’s sham.
— Bruce
At least one staff member sends LNC stuff to a State Chair etc list kept by the LNC. The LNC instead uses the faulty list.The LNC has been warned often enough that the LSLA list does not go where it should. The LNC’s use of the LSLA list has to be deliberate policy.
Perhaps the matter should be taken to the Judicial Committee.
Announcements to state chairs from national always go only to lsla list as far as I can tell.
Amusingly the LNC just sent out the delegate list forms to the state chairs. For each state, a placeholder name was included. For many states, the name was the state chair. For Oregon, the name was Mr Burke’s.
We are advised that the Oregon State Chair found out about this when a person not to be named forwarded the Oregon chair the email that was sent from the LNC via the National Secretary and an LNC staff member.
Readers may recall that the LNC has a validated list of state chairs.
It was, we are told, not used
The email was, we are told, instead mailed via the LSLA list, which does not include the Oregon State chair, or anyone else from the LP OR state organization.
Readers may correctly infer that this matter went over poorly in Oregon.
Unfortunately Steven, one side of this was faced with the choice: defend the LPO or hand it over to a republican proxy team being led about by the nose by a republican lawyer (who the LNC hired).
We then had the LNC decide to join the fight on the side of the republican party.
The human and what it will do for power. A lovely tragedy every time. The LPO went Greek. For those keeping score, the real winners are the lawyers.
Stewart,
Are you saying it’s like deja vu all over again? 🙂
LfA,
“Is the LNC at all concerned that these people are using the LNC’s alleged trademark to make money?”
The LNC knows its fraudulent trademark claim wouldn’t stand up for a hot minute in court. Like an unloaded gun, it’s only useful as a threat. Pointing it might scare someone, but if you pull the trigger nothing happens.
Officially, just a member. Unofficially, it’s an open secret that he is the power behind the throne.
I believe the LNC is about as eager to deal with this as with highly radioactive nuclear waste, but I’ll ask.
Is the LNC at all concerned that these people are using the LNC’s alleged trademark to make money?
As of today does Mr. Burke have any position on the committee as an officer or a representative or even as a director or is he just a member of that group as organized under Mr. Reeves?
Wow…this is about as interesting as episode 16 of Monty Python’s Flying Circus!
http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode16.htm
Ok, well not as interesting..waiting for the elk to explode…
MHW, as of a few months ago: https://independentpoliticalreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/20130602-JudComm-Decision-on-2011-Questions-1.pdf
Who are the officers in this group? Mr. Reeves seems to be the chair. Then who do we have? Anyone know?
Damn Wes,
I was just about to suggest a pool for wagering on how many “members” show. I had a sure fire winning method.
You ruin everything!
🙂
Joe
Richard Burke is destructive to Liberty. The National LP should bar him and his gang from being part of the National Party and disavow them.
Enough dicking around. Maybe the members of the LP, or regostered Libertarian voters should sue Richard for emotional suffering.
If your reading this Dick. Grow up, accept defeat, leave the LP and go be a republican. Because you are using deceit and fraud. Wasting resources that could be spent in other ways.
Due to a complaint by one of our members .. the site is now offline.
Steve M,
Bingo.
The Reeves Gang is not the LPO as defined by Oregon’s Secretary of State. The Reeves Gang is not the LPO as defined by Oregon’s courts after litigation of the matter. The Reeves Gang is not even the LPO as defined by affiliation with the national committee that all other Libertarian Parties are affiliated with, nor to my knowledge by affiliation with any other national committee claiming to represent a “Libertarian Party.”
Yet the Reeves Gang is holding itself out as the LPO and attempting to get people to give it money on the basis of that lie. It’s classic fraud / theft by deception. If the real LPO is smart, they’ll find a couple of people who get taken by the Reeves Gang (or hell, a couple of ringers who send checks before “discovering” the fraud will do if necessary) and pursue both criminal and civil complaints.
Has the Reeves faction crossed over into wire fraud?
but when does charging people money to participate in a convention to elect officers to a party organization that you might not have any authority to elect officers to become criminally fraudulent?
Join or Renew Your Membership! – $50.00?
To participate in the March 22nd convention as a voting delegate, you must be a current member in good standing of the Libertarian Party of Oregon. Annual dues are $50 and you can pay securely online by clicking on the “BUY NOW” button shown at left You must be at least fifteen years old to join the LPO.
It’s all good. Just get in where you fit in and keep on truckin’…
101 ways to pick you nose while waiting for the revolution.
fighting over email lists is as good as any entry on that list and probably more entertaining.
Yes, others ways to help could be helping others with their IRS problems, running live free schools, helping people get out of the military… helping people get out of working for the DEA and find a new careers. Teaching economic ways to engage in bit coin mining.
But if an individual finds working on electoral politics amusing then I say go for it and keep having fun.
Or in your case Spence, spend your time trying to convince others to not engage in electoral politics with a 3rd party.
Hows that working out for you?
Burke has been asserting publicly (against all rational evidence) that the lawsuit will be concluded in his side’s favor “within a few months” for well over a year now, as well as fraudulently fundraising using the name of the Libertarian Party of Oregon for at least as long.
Of course, fraud and lies are all he knows, so it should come as no surprise that his ever-dwindling coterie of followers are still lapping eagerly at his spewage. Once they cease to be of interest to him, either as objects of affection or subjects of fleecing, he’ll repel them with his natural charm.
LP is still working on big time projects like arguing over who controls their state parties (of a couple of dozen people, many of them social rejects and the chronically unemployed) and email lists. Special olympics clap time! How does the LP help make us more free? There are hundreds, if not thousands, of other organizations in the libertarian movement that your time and money would be better spent on. Please quit the LP and do something useful!
I am amused to see Burke’s trademark misspelling of the word “its” in the very first sentence. I’m also stunned that he thinks they’ll be vindicated in court this year. In a best case scenario, they’ll win their appeal, which I understand simply will mean the court will hear the case. What makes them think it will be settled so soon? The last one took over two years, and it didn’t even go so far as a settlement.
Isn’t there something in the LP Pledge about not using fraud to achieve political goals?
By definition, this stunt violates that, proving that the Burke/Reeves faction is indeed not at all libertarian or Libertarian….
The Burke/Reeves group is defining membership to a political party by a definition that they have created and runs in opposition to the definition that the Oregon Secretary of State uses to define party members.
The LPO that has ballot access is using the definition that is part of Oregon election law and doesn’t charge or limit those who have joined the party through the accepted standard set by Oregon’s election laws.