Adrian Wyllie, Libertarian Gubernatorial Candidate, Will Get His Day in Court to Continue the Battle Against Real ID

In a nearly three year long battle against Real ID, Adrian Wyllie, Libertarian candidate for governor of Florida, has been arrested in Safety Harbor giving him legal standing to fight the constitutionality of the legislation in court.

Wyllie, began his battle in May of 2011 by publicly surrendering his driver’s license in protest of the Real ID Act of 2005 . This federal legislation, implemented by the State of Florida by then Republican Governor Charlie Crist in 2008, made changes to the requirements of obtaining a driver’s license or identification card, including digital image captures of licensees, compliant with facial recognition via the FRnet. It requires certified documents to explain any name change- such as marriage or divorce- regardless of how long the person has been licensed. The fact that women are subject to far more difficult renewals than men and certain people are no longer subject to the birth certificate requirement is a violation of the 14th Amendment. The very fact the State is making you re-prove your identity without cause via these intrusive means is a violation of Florida’s Article 1 Section 23 as well as a violation of our 4th Amendment rights.

Mr. Wyllie’s battle began on the day he relinquished his license and informed several jurisdictions of law enforcement of his act of civil disobedience. He was finally cited for driving without a license in July of 2011 and was seen in court for the $116 traffic violation. At that time, the most senior judge on the 6th district, 3 prosecutors and a courtroom full of media were witness to Mr. Wyllie’s arguments of the unconstitutionality of the Real ID Act as well as Supreme Court precedent on citizens right to travel as well as surrendering a right for a privilege. In the end, Mr. Wyllie was unsuccessful in that small battle but has continued to maintain his civil disobedience to gain legal standing by way of jury.

As Martin Luther King once said “An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.” Wyllie, in the tradition of Martin Luther King and other significant Americans who have fought for our civil liberties, was engaging in civil disobedience until the time he could fight the legislation in the proper venue.

Today, after 3 years of driving unlicensed throughout the state of Florida without incident, Adrian Wyllie has been arrested outside the Safety Harbor Resort and Spa. He was an invited guest to the 14th Anniversary Luncheon of the Intercultural Advocacy Institute, keynoted by State Senator Jack Latvala. This arrest will give Mr. Wyllie a chance to take his argument to a jury as he fights the criminal charges against him brought on by this unconstitutional law.

Note: “I have spoken to Adrian and he is happy to be given the chance to fight for all Floridians against this law and will continue to fight as governor of Florida.” ~ Danielle

For information, comments or interview requests please contact Danielle Alexandre (727) 424-9530

To Donate to the campaign to help Adrian fight for Florida please click HERE

Source

72 thoughts on “Adrian Wyllie, Libertarian Gubernatorial Candidate, Will Get His Day in Court to Continue the Battle Against Real ID

  1. Joe Wendt

    This is stupid. It’s illegal to drive in Florida without a license and it was like that prior to the enactment of real id.

  2. paulie

    Licenses are for control, meddling and manipulation by the state, which should stop treating travel as a privelege and relinquish its monopoly on roads.

  3. Nathan Norman

    The roads are for public use for free movement around the nation. If we allow untrained people to operate vehicles on them, they could harm other drivers.

  4. paulie

    That’s what private road owners and insurance companies would find much better ways to insure would not happen.

  5. Nathan Norman

    I doubt that. Having to pay tolls would slow commerce and restrict use of roads. That’s bad for the economy.

  6. paulie

    Ever seen an EZ Pass lane? You don’t even slow down.

    You also assume that drivers would be the ones paying for roads. Not necessarily true.

    Oil/other type fuel companies, car companies, car dealers, advertisers, homebuilders, retailers and employers all need roads for their business, thus have various incentives for paying for road contruction and maintenance.

  7. Nathan Norman

    You assume these companies will have the best practices and follow the same methods. They won’t. And if it’s built on profit only, who will maintain rural roads if there’s no economic incentive to do so?

  8. Joe Wendt

    Since there are farms in rural areas which produce a consumer commodity that have market value, there is economic incentive to build/maintain roads in those areas, or possibly developing more cost effective means of transport to those areas.

  9. Nathan Norman

    There’s not an incentive to maintain roads not used as often as others.

  10. Joe Wendt

    That’s called the free market. Why should anyone maintain a road that’s not used? Roads that are used the most would be maintained because there is a financial incentive, while others would be phased out due to a lack of use. Rural roads that are used more frequently would be properly maintained because there is a demand to use the road. Others would either disappear or would remain dirt paths. It’s a much better system than the endless spending by government to maintain roads that are barely used.

  11. Nathan Norman

    Individual farmers rely on these roads. You want to put them out of business just so the market can be “free”? Why would any road company choose to maintain any rural road when there is much greater profit in urban roads?

  12. Matt Cholko

    If no “road company” chooses to maintain rural roads, suddenly there will be lots of profit making potential in the rural road business and/or the people who rely on them will solve the problem on their own.

  13. Nathan Norman

    I very much doubt that. There probably isn’t any profit in maintaining the roads. The square footage is so vast.

  14. David Colborne

    Regaress of how you feel about drivers licenses (I could very easily see private car insurance companies requiring individuals to receive licenses in order to receive insurance, even in a Utopian-Libertarian society), in order to sue about something like REAL ID, you need standing. In order to get standing, you have tobe able to show you were clearly wronged. Wyllie is attempting to show he was wronged by demonstrating that he can’t get a Florida driver’s license without submitting to REAL ID regulations and that it’s some form of illegal (unconstitutional, against the state constitution, etc.) for the State of Florida to ask if require that information.

    Believe it or not, he’s actually working within the system.

  15. Joe Wendt

    It’s still an idiotic idea, all a prosecutor would have to do is argue that drive without a license was illegal prior to the enactment of real id, and his actions and harassment of the police regarding his lack of a license are merely a disregard for state statutes. Also, they could demonstrate that not having a license would be essentially denying himself the right to vote for himself, as a state issued id is required to vote (and since passport renewal is just as “burdensome” as renewing a license). It’s idiocy.

  16. paulie

    NN,

    Your assertions are false. There were privately maintained roads all throughout history, and there still are. Many roads through neighborhoods and wilderness areas are privately maintained, as are the streets of Hong Kong. Most roads are privately built, but government takes them over.

    Supposing you were correct about rural roads, so what? If the costs are passed on to the farmers for road usage fees (which would not necessarily be the case: see above for the many other people who have an interest in roads – in this case including stores that but what the farmers grow and the consumers that buy from those stores) it could be passed on to their customers. Those same customers are paying for it now in road taxes, albeit very inefficiently.

    Also, I suspect you are the same person as the recently banned troll CLC, although I am not sure yet. You showed up at the same time as he was banned and have a similar IP. So far you don’t seem to be trolling, but if it starts you can have your new identity (if that’s what it is) banned as well.

  17. paulie

    It’s still an idiotic idea, all a prosecutor would have to do is argue that drive without a license was illegal prior to the enactment of real id

    Can he get a drivers license now without submitting to the REAL ID BS?

  18. paulie

    Also, they could demonstrate that not having a license would be essentially denying himself the right to vote for himself, as a state issued id is required to vote (and since passport renewal is just as “burdensome” as renewing a license).

    Seems like an unconstitutional abridgement of many people’s voting rights and a great basis for more lawsuits.

  19. Andy

    “Nathan Norman May 10, 2014 at 9:56 pm
    There probably isn’t any profit in maintaining the roads.”

    I disagree with this statement. If there is demand for a product or service, there is a way from which to profit from it.

  20. Nathan Norman

    The problem with laissez-faire economics is it presupposes the free market will self purify. But supply cannot always satisfy demand. If demand exists but the demander lacks the necessary funds the supplier requires to make a profit, the demand will go unfulfilled.

  21. Jed Ziggler Post author

    My defense of libertarianism is, people like Nathan might be right. Libertarian, laissez-faire economics might not work. I believe it would, but it might not. However, even if it doesn’t, it is still morally right. Liberty is not a means to an end, it is an end in and of itself. Liberty should almost never be sacrificed in the name of pragmatism.

  22. Joe Wendt

    He can’t get a license without going through the BS. But, the BS isn’t that bad. The sad part was that it was the fastest time experience I ever had at the Tax Collectors office (which handle license renewals in FL, don’t ask me why i don’t get it either). Getting my marriage license and paying a traffic ticket were more grueling than renewing my drivers license was this year. Now it could be an abridgement of his voting rights and would make a great lawsuit, if he didn’t voluntarily surrender his license. That’s the key, he willfully and voluntarily surrendered his license on his own accord. He chose to give up a valid form a voter id. This whole episode merely shows a pattern of behavior that will result in possible jail time. This is just an exercise in idiocy.

  23. Andy

    “Joe Wendt May 11, 2014 at 9:31 pm
    He can’t get a license without going through the BS. But, the BS isn’t that bad. The sad part was that it was the fastest time experience I ever had at the Tax Collectors office (which handle license renewals in FL, don’t ask me why i don’t get it either).”

    Most state’s call it the Department of Motor Vehicles or DMV. Massachusetts calls it the RMV, which stands for Registry of Motor Vehicles. Maryland calls it the MVA, which stands for Motor Vehicle Administration. Arkansas has one of the most honest names for it, which is Arkansas Revenue, as all of these places are really just extortion rackets designed to bring in more revenue for the state (ie-the state government).

  24. paulie

    The problem with laissez-faire economics

    There is no problem with it. None.

    But supply cannot always satisfy demand

    Marxist nonsense. Supply adjusts to meet demand.

    If demand exists but the demander lacks the necessary funds the supplier requires to make a profit, the demand will go unfulfilled.

    Yes. So what?

    However, even if it doesn’t, it is still morally right. Liberty is not a means to an end, it is an end in and of itself. Liberty should almost never be sacrificed in the name of pragmatism.

    Good news: it does not need to be. Liberty is far more pragmatically effective than anything else.

  25. paulie

    But, the BS isn’t that bad.

    Says you. Adrian disagrees and so do I.

    Personally I found the pre-REAL ID paperwork requirements to be far too onerous and intrusive. Post REAL ID they have become much worse. Personally, I do not know of any state where I could get a current ID (never mind drivers license) if I tried. I actually have tried in a couple of states, with no success, and asked people about what they had to in a few others.

    Millions of people lack adequate documents to get a current ID. It’s not just about safe driving, and there are much better ways to insure safe driving than a bureaucratic monopoly.

  26. paulie

    as all of these places are really just extortion rackets designed to bring in more revenue for the state (ie-the state government).

    That, and to track people like cattle.

  27. Joe Wendt

    I literally provided them with a birth certificate, my ssn card, my pay stub, and my vehicle registration. That’s it, 4 documents that people have relatively easy access too. I don’t like bureaucratic monopoly, I think there are more effective a efficient ways to insure safe drivers are on the road. However, these real id requirements aren’t outrageous.

  28. paulie

    I literally provided them with a birth certificate, my ssn card, my pay stub, and my vehicle registration. That’s it, 4 documents that people have relatively easy access too.

    Some people do. I don’t. Neither do millions of other people.

  29. Adrian Wyllie

    Colleagues,

    This fight is about much more than showing paperwork to get a license. This is about preventing an Orwellian distopia.

    In all states that are Real ID compliant, the “photographs” they now take at the time of license renewal or issuance are actually ultra-high resolution digital facial image captures designed to work with facial recognition software. These biometric scans are uploaded identification database for all Americans, known as the Facial Recognition Network. The database is managed by the Department of Homeland Security.

    In Florida, this FRnet has been integrated with traffic and surveillance cameras, giving law enforcement the ability to automatically identify and track anyone with a DL via cameras tied to the facial recognition software. This is about our right to privacy, the 4th Amendment, and the encroaching police state. That’s why I’m fighting this battle.

    To better understand the implications, please watch this short interview I did in 2011, when my civil case was pending: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvwVlx2AJzo

    The fact that Mr. Wendt thinks that Real ID “isn’t that bad” is deeply troubling to me. However, being that he is the Lt. Governor candidate of my primary opponent, he does have a vested interest in chastising my efforts.

  30. paulie

    It’s also tied in with multiple databases, medical, legal, tax, etc, etc, and made available to every goon cop on the streets along with many other regime goons and paper shufflers. REAL ID is a real threat.

  31. Mike K

    While I understand the concept and agree that Real ID is a problem, this is a battle that’s already been lost.

    To become a member of the Libertarian Party of FL, I had to establish residency here. This required a photo and paperwork. (and changing my drivers license). A few years before my VA drivers license was up for renewal, and I had to go through the process and get a “real ID”. 99% of the people already have their information stored in the system.

    So, it’s pretty much a lost cause — now at least.

    Big deal if Adrian Wyllie wins in court, what happens then? The data is already stored and won’t be deleted.

    Also somewhat ironic that Adrian objects to them taking his photo on a drivers license for real ID, yet is publicly running for governor and doesn’t mind his photo being taken then. THEY ALREADY KNOW WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  32. Jill Pyeatt

    The fight against Real ID has been lost in Florida, but it hasn’t been in many states (including California). I’m glad Adrain will be making an issue of it.

  33. Joe Wendt

    Considering they take ultra-high resolution digital facial image captures at booking for anyone who is arrested, and upload them into the facial recognition network, that’s not a good argument. Also the belief that Florida is becoming an orwellian distopia is a joke. This is the state that can’t track children in the foster care system and can’t figure who’s dead on the voter rolls (my father still gets an absentee ballot, and he’s been dead for 7 years). This state couldn’t find it’s ass in a hole in the ground.

  34. Mark Axinn

    Adrian–Keep up the good fight. We can be on the side of right, we can be complicit in fascist statism, or we can be silent. Thank you for waging this battle.

    Nathan–Most of your argument seems to boil down to your conclusion that the roads won’t be safe without government licensing. The roads must be perfectly safe now as government in all 50 states requires licenses. Thank goodness we don’t ever have any car crashes with all those licensed drivers out there.

    Taken to its logical extension, your argument says everythng is better if the government does it. How’s that government housing program working out? What about the government war on poverty? Doesn’t seem to have been pretty successful over the last 50 years, has it? At least we did a good job as policeman of the world stopping all those commie dominoes from falling.

    Seriously, REAL ID is just another intrusive and offensive attempt to contol us serfs and, as Paulie noted above, to keep track of us like cattle. I for one don’t like the NSA grabbing all my emails, phone calls, credit card chargess, IPR comments, etc. in one of their data sweeps. Any fight to limit their snooping on us is a good one. At least they don’t register our eyeballs as in “Minority Report” or implant chips into our brains at birth.

  35. paulie

    Considering they take ultra-high resolution digital facial image captures at booking for anyone who is arrested, and upload them into the facial recognition network, that’s not a good argument.

    So the fact that those accused of crimes are tracked like cattle is justification for treating everyone else like cattle as well? Gotcha.

    Also the belief that Florida is becoming an orwellian distopia is a joke.

    Becoming less and less funny all the time.

    This is the state that can’t track children in the foster care system and can’t figure who’s dead on the voter rolls (my father still gets an absentee ballot, and he’s been dead for 7 years). This state couldn’t find it’s ass in a hole in the ground.

    Bureaucratic incompetence can and does coexist with bureaucratic overreach and viciousness.

    Do you really want every beat cop, property inspector, meter maid, DMV pencil pusher, park ranger etc etc etc having access to all your medical, criminal, tax, business, school and every other conceivable record? No potential for abuse there, eh? And what, you think “hackers” (crackers), criminals and corporate entities won’t be able to tap into it as well? Maybe stalkers or your neighbor, coworker, competitor or ex with a grudge?

  36. paulie

    Mark Axinn – exactly! Well said.

    At least they don’t register our eyeballs as in “Minority Report” or implant chips into our brains at birth.

    That we know of on a wide scale. Yet.

  37. Adrian Wyllie

    Actually, Minority Report is here also. In Polk County Florida, they began installing iris scanners last year in public schools. Outcry from members of the Libertarian Party of Florida and other concerned Floridians beat this effort back, and the iris scanners were removed. I believe that we must fight these encroachments at every opportunity, via legislation, via the courts, and via civil disobedience. It is unfortunate that Joe Wendt and Mike Kane are taking a statist position on this issue simply because of their dislike for me.

    http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2013/06/03/report-florida-schools-scanned-childrens-eyes-without-permission-eyeswipe-nano-iris-scan-biometric-data-collection-big-brother/

  38. paulie

    Actually, Minority Report is here also.

    Adrian – good point.

    I believe that we must fight these encroachments at every opportunity, via legislation, via the courts, and via civil disobedience.

    Agreed!

    It is unfortunate that Joe Wendt and Mike Kane are taking a statist position on this issue simply because of their dislike for me.

    Not entirely surprised at Joe but I must admit I am a little surprised at Mike. He is usually a fire breathing radical if ever there was one.

  39. Mike K

    So I’m a statist for saying that you’re fighting a battle that’s already been lost. That makes entirely no sense.

    Good Libertarian activists do things for the party and for the cause. You do your activism to make yourself feel important.

  40. Mike K

    It should also be publicly noted that I invited Mr. Wyllie for lunch, and he said there was no value for him to have lunch with me. (Claiming that I’ve done nothing to help the LPF)

    Of course, I was ready to write a check for his campaign, just to help the cause — even though I don’t like him personally and think he’s at best a used car salesman for the Libertarian Party.

    His loss.

  41. paulie

    So I’m a statist for saying that you’re fighting a battle that’s already been lost.

    Statist, no. Defeatist, yes.

    It has not already been lost. The battle over “REAL ID” is just starting. Many more steps left in its implementation, many more states that are not as far along as Florida, many tactics left to fight it with – including this case.

    Joe, on the other hand, is actively claiming that it is not so bad and minimizing the problem. At least you haven’t done that.

  42. paulie

    Of course, I was ready to write a check for his campaign, just to help the cause — even though I don’t like him personally and think he’s at best a used car salesman for the Libertarian Party.

    His loss.

    I agree. People with differences in the party should not be loathe to sit down and discuss them.

    If you are still ready to make out a check I personally or LP Alabama would be happy to be the recepient 🙂

  43. Mike K

    Whether you agree or not that the battle has been lost, the whole prohibition issue is one I wish gubernatorial candidates would tackle head on. Day 1 : I will pardon all non-violent drug offenders so they can come home to their families.

  44. paulie

    Fully agreed. And REAL ID tracking people like cattle Orwellian nightmate is another one. Imagine saying the struggle for peace in the war on drugs is already lost because prohibitionist laws are already being enforced. No way! No fight is lost while we have air in our lungs …

    null

  45. Joe Wendt

    I am merely pointing out the flaws in the argument. Now, if were some female, or person of color, or immigrant who did not voluntarily surrender their license, I wouldn’t be making such a big deal about it; because real id can negatively effect those groups of people. Wyllie, however, doesn’t fit in any of those categories. He’s a white, native born male who can easily comply with the law and chose to surrender his license. Surrendering his license is tantamount to choosing to get arrest and have his photo put into the facial recognition network (which he claims he is against). Not only that, he argued this before in traffic court, and lost. Now he’s arguing the same issue in the same traffic court (which is a very inappropriate place to discuss any constitutional issue), where he will lose again. It’s just idiocy.

  46. Matt Cholko

    There’s certainly some value in the publicity stunt side of this thing. I don’t know if it is getting any press, or if it will. But, if so, its a good opportunity for Mr. Wyllie to bring some attention to this loss of liberty – one that few people outside of L circles are even aware of.

  47. Andy

    “Joe Wendt May 13, 2014 at 10:46 pm
    I am merely pointing out the flaws in the argument. Now, if were some female, or person of color, ”

    I’ve always hated the expression “person of color.” Just what in the hell is a person of color? Is this opposed to people of no color? I don’t think that I’ve ever seen a person of no color, but I suppose that I’ve never seen them since they’d have to be invisible.

  48. Jed Ziggler Post author

    “Just what in the hell is a person of color?”

    People who aren’t white and have, therefore, traditionally been disadvantaged in America.

    “Is this opposed to people of no color?”

    Yes. White.

  49. Andy

    “Jed Ziggler Post authorMay 14, 2014 at 9:11 am
    ‘Just what in the hell is a person of color?’

    People who aren’t white and have, therefore, traditionally been disadvantaged in America.”

    “Is this opposed to people of no color?”

    Yes. White.”

    So white is not a color?

    I’ve always hated expressions like “people of color” or “ethnic people”. All people are some color and are of one or more ethnic.

  50. Jed Ziggler Post author

    “So white is not a color?”

    Technically yes, but when one thinks of a blank piece of paper, one thinks of it as devoid of color. The crayons give it the color. That’s where the expression comes from. It’s not scientifically accurate, as white is a color, a combination of all the colors on the visible spectrum, but to try to break it down for the sake of semantics defeats the purpose.

    “I’ve always hated expressions like ‘people of color’ or ‘ethnic people’. All people are some color and are of one or more ethnic.”

    They’re useful terms to describe people who have by and large a history of discrimination & prejudice placed against them by a white-dominant society. The English language & popular verbiage don’t always play by the rules. If you want to get really technical, white people aren’t white and black people aren’t black.

  51. Mike K

    @Matt Cholko

    You’re right, this is a good prospect for getting earned media. But is it the right media? The battle has been lost.

    Mr. Wyllie is an OK candidate. But has every opportunity to talk about the right stuff, and instead takes a pass.

    Why instead wouldn’t he organize a smoke down prohibition rally? And say instant pardon for all non violent drug offenders.

    I know the answer, but apparently if you don’t drive without a license you are a Libertarian who will take his crowd to the promised land.

  52. paulie

    Why instead wouldn’t he organize a smoke down prohibition rally? And say instant pardon for all non violent drug offenders.

    Why tell other activists which issues they should prioritize? That’s up to them. Why isn’t someone else running who would organize a smoke down prohibition rally if that is not Adrian’s big issue?

    Now, if were some female, or person of color, or immigrant who did not voluntarily surrender their license, I wouldn’t be making such a big deal about it; because real id can negatively effect those groups of people.

    So being tracked like cattle and increased chance of identity theft (among other things) are not problems for native born “white” males? I would think it would be a problem no matter what your so-called race or gender or where you were born.

  53. Joe Wendt

    Identity theft is a universal issue that can affect both the public and private sector, but Wyllie’s argument isn’t about identity theft. Rather, he’s making leaps and bounds about the constitutiality of the issue in traffic court. We can win with the identity theft issue, I wished more in the LP made that the issue. Instead, we have idiots driving around without a license saying that the owners of the roads are making unreasonable demands in order to have permission to use the roads.

  54. paulie

    They are unreasonable demands, and they do lead to invasion of privacy, increased likelihood of identity theft, and increased likelihood of trans-Orwellian nightmare totalitarianism.

    After all being tracked liked cattle is a necessary pre-requisite to being rounded up like cattle and slaughtered like cattle.

    Not like any once free(ish) country has ever done that to its citizens and neighbors…oh wait.

  55. Starchild

    I have to disagree with Mike Kane and Joe Wendt on this one and give credit where credit is due.

    Adrian Wylie deserves kudos for standing up to the system and protesting the “Real ID” driver licensing revenue/control scam by refusing to carry a license — *especially* since he is not among those most directly disadvantaged by the law (see Joe’s post above on May 13, 2014 at 10:46 pm)

    Taking this kind of principled stand speaks well of Libertarian candidates. It shows that we are not just another group of political opportunists seeking money and power, but people who are willing to take risks to fight injustice and help others.

    Thanks also to Jed Ziggler for writing this piece, and also for drawing the correct historical parallels to the practice of civil disobedience and its practitioners such as Dr. Martin Luther King. As Dr. King also said, “The time is always right to do the right thing” (even in the face of long odds or when it seems like a “lost cause”).

    Actions like this are not only doing the right thing, they also help the Libertarian Party reach out to members of minority groups, immigrants, poor people and others who are most victimized by things like government profiling and ID requirements. I am heartened to hear that Adrian is talking about issues like this, and iris scanners in Florida government schools (let’s call them “government schools” and not “public schools”, since independently run schools also serve the public) which he mentioned above on May 13, 2014 at 9:28 am, because too many LP candidates have ignored such issues in favor of focusing largely or exclusively on economic issues or other issues that appeal mainly to people on the political right, and have consequently been perceived by many voters as indistinguishable from conservatives or Republicans.

    I do hope that Adrian will make every effort in his campaign to work with Mike Kane and other solidly libertarian members of the Florida LP despite any disagreements that may exist.

  56. Matt Cholko

    The personality conflicts in Florida are only helping to hold down what could be a great state party. If y’all can’t work together, then don’t work together. There is more than one way to grow the party, spread the message, etc. So, do what ya wanna do and leave the constant shit talking behind, please!.

  57. Matt Cholko

    If the people are so terrible, or the relationships are so damaged that it is not possible for you all to work in the same organization, then focus your efforts at the local level, or the national level, or help out another state. There are 12 campaigns in VA that could use some mentoring, Kane. Like, seriously, at least half of those REALLY need your guidance.

  58. Matt Cholko

    Or, you could work to bring trans-Orwellian nightmare totalitarianism to Florida. That’s probably about as good for liberty as continuously talking shit about other Florida Ls. .

  59. Mike K

    Some individuals down here have been so off putting that I’ve questioned why be involved at all. Mr. Wyllie included.

    The worst part about it is that many FL activists themselves put ‘leadership’ on a pedestal and never question them. I find it hard to work with people who have a ‘holier than thou’ mentality. I look at everyone as an individual first.

    The convention is this weekend, so I’ll know more about future activities after that.

  60. Mike K

    I may have a 3 week window in early September off from work. Perhaps I’ll spend the time in VA campaigning. Perhaps down here.

    Or maybe I’ll go to Costa Rica

  61. Thomas L. Knapp

    While I haven’t been a fan of Adrian Wyllie and the apparent problems with the Florida LP’s leadership, I have to support him 100% on this.

    I have been an “undocumented” person for about a decade now. I lost my wallet with my driver’s license and Social Security card, and my birth certificate had gone missing long before.

    In Missouri, I couldn’t get a new driver’s license or state ID without my Social Security card and birth certificate.

    I couldn’t get a new Social Security card without my driver’s license or state ID and my birth certificate.

    And I couldn’t get my birth certificate without my driver’s license or state ID and my Social Security card, or alternatively a bunch of other stuff that I also didn’t have and would have had difficulty assembling.

    Since I had pretty much stopped driving anyway, and didn’t need the Social Security card for employment “citizenship verification” crap, I just said “screw it.”

    So for about a decade, I have been unable to do things like get on an airplane (or even, apparently, a Greyhound).

    Fortunately, things have lightened up a little, and I’m in the process of getting “documented.” But it’s a pain in the ass, and it’s all because the state thinks it needs to crawl up my ass and know who I am and where I’m at at all times.

    Go, Adrian! If I voted, I’d be voting for you. And hell, I may even get registered and do that.

  62. paulie

    Millions of people have simiar documentation problems, including me. Mine have not lightened up.

    I am able to ride greyhound all the time though, they don’t ask for ID with very rare exceptions and don’t care if it expired in 2008 as mine did even the very few times they do ask. And I have yet to have megabus ask me for ID. I ride both frequently.

    I was able to fly in 2012 using a combination of my expired state ID, my bank card, my naturalization certificate from 1986 which was then torn in pieces (I’ve since had it quasi-restored with tape on the back) with a picture of me as a kid, and the clincher was…my LP membership card! LOL.

    Every once in a while I get denied entry to a bar or alcohol purchase, but not most of the time. Motels almost always don’t care that my ID is expired. I don’t generally drive. I did have a YMCA that would not sell me a membership because the ID is old, but I went to a different branch of the same Y and they sold it to me without any problem.

    At least I have an expired state ID, unlike millions of other people. I burned my SS card back in the late 90s and neither want nor as far as I know could get a new one. I haven’t used the SS number in quite a few years and have long since forgotten what it was. I have no idea whether the USSR had birth certificates or how I would even try to get one if they did. They had internal passports – basically what the state IDs are now turning into – and we had to give up ours when we left.

  63. Thomas L. Knapp

    Paulie,

    Glad to hear it’s possible to go Greyhound sometimes without ID. The reason I assumed that it wasn’t was that the last time I WANTED to, St. Louis (where I lived then) was part of a TSA “pilot program” where they were supposedly going to have the same procedures as at airports. I had to cancel a trip I wanted to take, as I didn’t have ID, and just kind of figured that the “pilot program” would at some point expand to include most major Greyhound depots.

    I’ve never used Megabus, but I was actually researching it the other day and noticed that the only thing they said about ID was that “young adults may want to bring one, since minors can’t travel unaccompanied and you may need to prove you’re not a minor.” Everything I’ve heard about that company sounds great.

    These days, I’m mostly interested in getting “documented” because I’m thinking of getting a vehicle — a scooter or motorcycle for around Gainesville — and starting to drive again.

  64. paulie

    I’ve never used Megabus, but I was actually researching it the other day and noticed that the only thing they said about ID was that “young adults may want to bring one, since minors can’t travel unaccompanied and you may need to prove you’re not a minor.” Everything I’ve heard about that company sounds great.

    I like it a lot. They don’t go to as many places as Greyhound does though.

    I had to cancel a trip I wanted to take, as I didn’t have ID, and just kind of figured that the “pilot program” would at some point expand to include most major Greyhound depots.

    It’s probably coming but has not happened yet.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *