Tune in at 9 PM Eastern time (8 PM Central, 7 PM Mountain, 6 PM Pacific, 5 PM Alaska, 4 PM Hawai’i) in the comments on this post, and add your own.
IPR has previously covered the debate:
Internet Pettition to demand Bob Barr’s participation in debate is being circulated
Free and Equal debate picked up on C-SPAN for Live coverage
Updates on the Free and Equal debate
Freeandequal.org debate is on; Ralph Nader and Chuck Baldwin confirmed
Two Presidential candidates confirmed for debate in DC on Thursday, October 23
The moderator will be Chris Hedges from the Nation Institute. In addition to CSPAN, it will also be carried live on Restore the Republic Radio.
Dave Weigel writes it up in the Nation
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081110/weigel
I’m not sure if I’m supposed to say this, but I might host a radio show for “Left of Liberty,” if that’s what it’s being called.
Video of the debate
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/10/video-of-last-nights-presidential-debate-between-ralph-nader-and-chuck-baldwin/
Nader is older than dirt. But he’s young at heart.
There were more Nader supporters in the audience, and no one was allowed to clap at all… The moderator only made up his statements that afternoon on his train ride down to DC, and they were all in handwritten notes (pages of them, as you call pointed out!). He actually, as he said, had a few of his “own” questions: I don’t think he ended up taking but one or two from the audience at all.
Nader’s tie was crooked, Baldwin looked more professional.
I found out that Nader is older than McCain.
http://libertymaven.com/2008/10/15/liberty-maven-live-blogging-final-presidential-debate-tonight-with-or-without-ron-paul/2553/
For those who missed it
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=281952-1&clipStart=&clipStop=
I think Baldwin gained more, since he started out with less and as you said beat were basically low expectations. Kind of underscores why McKinney, especially, would have benefited by being there.
I found that I agreed with both of them more than I agree with either McCain or Obama, although there were important policy differences I have with each – and on the issue of immigration freedom, I find myself on the opposite side from both of them.
I would hesitate to declare a winner, because neither of them were ripping on each other–it was all aimed at the big fish, Obama and McCain–as it should be.
Nader was great,but always is.
Baldwin was great,and I dont think anyone expected that.
RTR has a poll
http://www.rtrradio.com/
Baldwin leads with 75% to 24% as the winner of the debate now. What do people here think?
Someone’s gotta have an opinion.
Don’t all jump in at once, LOL..
Darrell Castle is on with the Ron Paul Twins, now the Chuck Baldwin twins. The audio is cutting in and out.
I did my best “for the people.”
Tobin said she is running Free and Equal by herself.
Baldwin is on RTR now.
She is on now.
RTR has a poll
http://www.rtrradio.com/
Baldwin leads with 75% to 24% as the winner of the debate now. What do people here think?
Christina Tobin is supposed to be on RTR Radio soon.
Phillips has been getting alot of press recently. A positive reaction to his being one of the original people to encourage Ron Paul’s run.
RTR radio is interviewing Howard Phillips
New IPR post comment record
🙂
I mean they both did well. Barr and McKinney blew it by not attending, especially McKinney who is further behind. Despite Hedges speechifying, I don’t think the debate was biased against Baldwin or in favor of Nader.
Yes. I thought Nader did well too.
BTW: I didnt mean that as a slight to Nader. He ALWAYS does well.
But I thought Baldwin exceeded my expectations.
Baldwin was impressive in this,anyone else think so?
New RTR radio channel will be called Left of Liberty
i can’t get it to load.
Cynthia McKinney explains away the debate in a conspiracy theory.
RTR radio agrees with us, Hedges talked too damn much
Anyone know if there is a transcript?
Roundtable now at
http://www.rtrradio.com/
Nevada caller: I support Barr. I want to know about veterans.
The end.
Continued mingling.
The phones at CSpan seem to be off the hook.
Mingling.
Baldwin: securing borders is priority #1. No foreign aid, no NAFTA, bring back jobs through protectionism, no world policeman role for US.
Paulie, which means Baldwin is more secular than Obama.
In some ways, yes…
Nader: repeal Taft-Hartley labor law.
See ya. Thanks for joining us here.
Nader: tax wall street transactions, carbon tax, sin taxes;
Okay, I’m turning in for the night. Thanks guys!
I wonder how many people watched this.
Nader mentions he has campaigned in 50 states. Wants to stave off depression through public works programs.
Paulie, which means Baldwin is more secular than Obama.
re178 – Baldwin would be a stronger candidate with Romney as the nominee.
re177 – I’m sure Hedges figures he’s just as important as these two guys, so why not be an ass? Same deal with Brokaw.
Not in his views, of course.
Baldwin also opposes faith based initiatives.
I have to say, Baldwin impressed me. He’s evolved into an excellent debater — maybe because he accepted so many of those smaller debates with the Socialists.
Nader: Separate church and state, corporation and state. Wall of separation being blurred by faith based initiatives.
Baldwin, you needed to denounce your party’s platform if you want to claim to be an advocate of religious freedom.
Baldwin: we should have religious freedom for Christians, even Mormons.
Ross, it sounded to me like Hedges added his personal opinion before actually reading the question.
Q: Separation of church and state
Nader is pro-choice, draws parallel to alcohol prohibition. Opposes mandatory pregnancy as in Romania and mandatory abortion as in China. Points out he is the smaller government candidate on this issue.
Jeremy, these are questions from the audience. I was about to say the same thing, though.
Baldwin: no legal abortion, period. Republicans have not stopped it despite their promises.
Apparently Hedges doesn’t like abortion.
Nader believes in government sponsorship for alternative energy.
Hedges is going on at length about abortion.
Nader: What happened to stopping government coercion? BAM!
Both Nader and Baldwin are correct about corporate personhood. Both are wrong about immigration, especially Baldwin. Baldwin is more correct on health care.
Nader has consistently impressed me with his extensive knowledge of the environment, the movement, and the solutions.
Baldwin thinks there may be global cooling, not warming. Warming skeptic.
Nader is a warming believer.
It’s amazing how right Baldwin is on so many issues given that he’s a crazy loon.
Baldwin: opposed to corporate welfare, corporate politics; says bailout is an example of this.
Agrees on corporate personhood. (P: Too bad this was taken out of LP platform. )
Hedges: What about global warming?
Good question, Hedges, this time. And short, to the point. It isn’t brought up in enough in ANY debates.
Baldwin: I’m a conspiracy theorist. If I were alive in 1900 when global warming were just a little bud of a theory and opposed the mainstream, I would most likely support the idea. I don’t like science.
Baldwin: No to corporations.
Nader: This should be an important issue.
Good question, Nader. Good job bringing up corporate personhood.
+1
Baldwin, I’m sorry, you can’t be anti-corporate and pro-free-market.
Good question, Nader. Good job bringing up corporate personhood.
Nader: What do you think about corporate personhood? I spoke with Scalia and he hasn’t thought about it. Do you think corporations should have equal rights as humans?
Baldwin quotes Reagan; a nation without borders is not a nation (P: I WISH!); calls immigration an invasion.
Nader: stop supporting oligarchs who drive their people to flee; crack down on employers to reduce competition for American workers.
Too bad McKinney is not there.
It’s also a strong point for Baldwin. Something he likes to stress.
Good question by Baldwin, highlights a real difference.
Nader: $10 min wage the same as 1968 min wage.
Baldwin to Nader: what will you do to secure the borders?
Chuck, you contradict yourself. How do you have regulation and an unfettered free market?
Baldwin: Wall street banksters should go to prison.
Hedges: My question was not long enough to begin with. I think I’ll chime in with long followups, too.
I’m glad they’re not taking shots at each other.
Thanks.
Baldwin: Let’s prosecute Wall Street fat cats, not give them money, and agree that some regulation is reasonable in many areas. We need accountability.
“Does anyone see a phone number to call?”
They generally don’t show the phone numbers until it’s actually time to call.
Nader rocks on single payer.
Nader: health care should be like police protection and fire protection because people die. Supports single payer, denies that it is socialized medicine.
Baldwin: It’s not moral to cut welfare programs right away.
Good for him. I’ve been waiting to hear that.
Does anyone see a phone number to call?
Draws parallel between socializing market risk with the Wall Street bailout with socializing personal risk with national health care; recalls affordable fee for service health care.
(He didn’t really say that)
Baldwin: If you believe in Jesus, your problems will go away.
Baldwin: No more socialism in health care. Government just makes bad problems worse.
Hedges is going for a new Guinness record with this “question”
Maybe, maybe not….
Hedges: Maybe I’ll leave you guys a few seconds to answer me.
…I said maybe!@
What’s the phone number?
CSpan is saying you can call in. I’m calling in and asking about the Ni4D.
Hedges: Maybe I’ll leave you guys a few seconds to answer me.
Last question, have you fallen asleep during this question?
Last question, health care
$708,000 is chump change for Obama.
And if Barr were there, he could have pointed out he was the guy who defeated them.
Maybe next time.
paulie cannoli // Oct 23, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Baldwin – provisions of post 9/11 legislation were proposed a decade earlier.
Nader: Jim Crow for candidates = Jim Crow for voters (no offense Cynthia).
Baldwin: Candidates like Ron Paul and Kucinich ignored and mistreated by their parties and the media.
Baldwin: major media have become lapdogs of the major parties.
Nader: Only one candidate in many districts.
Nader: Majority of voters want us in the debates with Republicans and Democrats. Mentions signature gathering and ballot access lawsuits. No Western country obstructs participation in elections this way; calls it Jim Crow discrimination.
Baldwin: we need a 6-candidate debate.
Nader: Obama raises more money every day than we do for the whole campaign, so send me money.
aka “Gimme a friggin break”
Baldwin: We don’t get enough credit.
115 – I trust you. I’ve only been paying half attention.
Nader: Possible to knock on all the doors in Vermont, not NYC or nationwide.
Q. Aren’t you guys stupid?
Q: Progressive Party of Vermont
#112 — with you on that one.
#110 — wasn’t that what he said? Draft the President and Congress every time you go to war?
Great question, Hedges. I’m glad you asked it.
He asked about whether local third party politics is more effective.
My answer to it would be that you need a combo of national and local, because national brings a lot more attention to it, but local gets more people elected. (I think local politics should be more important, though)
Nader: Force fields? Whaa?
I’d say I support direct democracy in general more than I just support the Ni4D.
Halliburton’s stock has more than doubled since the start of the Iraq war.
It’s sick.
Draft the president? I must not have been paying attention at that part. What did he say?
Yeah, good on Nader for talking about binding national referenda. (Even though I don’t support the NI4D.)
Baldwin – provisions of post 9/11 legislation were proposed a decade earlier.
Ross, Hedges’ head really IS that big.
Okay, what’s the craziest answer of the night? Nader wanting to draft the President, or Baldwin wanting to defend Panama from the Chinese navy?
Too bad we don’t have McKinney there, then we’d have some real crazies.
Baldwin: we are edging closer to a police state, and does not believe it is accidental.
103 – maybe that actually means Nader’s the sane one.
Plus, it’s too bad only .001% of the people watching will realize what Nader said about national referenda. If you don’t stress that point, people don’t connect to it. I saw it with Gravel in the Dem debates.
Note to Nader: when Chuck Baldwin laughs at you, something’s wrong. Because Chuck Baldwin’s crazy.
Nader: draft children of Congressmen.
I’m watching it on a TV so big Chris Hedges’ forehead is at least 18 square feet.
Nader: put impeachment back on the table; allow citizens to sue politicians and bureaucrats. Endorses National Initiative.
Nader: We need national referenda!
Glad he said it, even if he barely mentioned it. I’m so happy he endorsed the Ni4D and lists it on his website, but he doesn’t give it too much attention.
(Feed cut out, missed Baldwin’s answer)
Score one for Baldwin on “conservatives shouldn’t support the Patriot Act”. Almost makes up for his crazy conspiracy things about the Chinese navy in Panama. Not quite, though.
Christian Revolutionary Colonel Baldwin continues to make fantastic and earth-shattering points about such things as the wars, the Patriot Act, abortion, gay marriage and trade. While appealing to conservatives with his Christian governmentcontrol and anti-immigrant stance. Meanwhile, Nader is being utterly humiliated. Baldwin, Keep on stealing those Republican votes, sir. Victory for Obama, 12 days away! Amen.
….Democrats in Congress went along….
Baldwin: I’m a REAL conservative.
Hedges mentions police horse trampling Iraq vet against war, asks about signing statements, habeas corpus suspension
Baldwin: Russia and China are threats; we should not be reducing the size of the military or getting bogged down in the mideast. A little Reagan worship thrown in. Opposes “Patriot Act” though.
Baldwin: we need more ships in our navy so we can keep China out of the Panama Canal.
WHAT???
Baldwin: Marquee and reprisal, Ron Paul, Thomas Jefferson…
Here’s what I think will be one of the true tests of Obama’s presidency: will be reduce the power of the presidency?
If he gets rid of most/all of Bush’s advancement of presidential power, he will be a great man.
Nader: remove military contractors.
Nader: “I’m Eugene Debs!”
Baldwin: “I’m Ron Paul!”
Nader: Congress and judiciary are giving way to imperial presidency; international law is being ignored and violated. Obama is beligerent like McCain. US foreign policy is leading to blowback and terrorism; Iran war looming.
Baldwin: Only Congress can declare war. We must follow Constitution. I like Ron Paul.
Nader: Surge in Afghanistan would be like “fire on gasoline,” could destabilize Pakistan.
Nader: It violates international treaties and the Constitution. Congress is abrogating its responsibility.
Pre-emptive war
Catholic Trotskyist, can’t you watch it on c-span.org?
Baldwin: The real battle is between new world order globalists and constitutionalists; mentions immigration, foreign aid.
#77 – So do Obama and McCain and Bush. Ah!
Baldwin: We are globalising too much. We follow the UN too much.
That’s not true. We break international treaties all the time, and it’s a big treaty. That is, the problem of the idea of “American exceptionalism.”
Nader: AIPAC has too much influence. He supports two state solution for Israel-Palestine.
Baldwin: No foreign aid.
To absolutely cut it off would be a scary thing.
Haha, I didn’t see 70.
We’ll have duplication aplenty. All good.
For some eason, CSpan2 in my area is not covering it. Still, I am confident that with God’s help and blessing, Christian Revolutionary Colonel Chuck Baldwin is tuterly defeating and humiliating fascist/stalinist criminal Ralph Nader. I have also heard from inside sources at the Vatican that the pope is about to excommunicate Ralph Nader.
Haha, I didn’t see 70.
Nader: Little difference between major candidates on Iraq, they’ll keep at least some bases there. 400 Arabs dead to one Israeli dead would be called anti-Semitism the other way around.
Nader: Obama will be like another Bush term, no different from McCain and Bush on middle east issues.
I didn’t realize Hedges was a candidate.
Is Hedges running for President?
Damn these questions are long
Hedges: reading a term paper about American foreign policy.
Q: War on Terror
Nader: criminal prosecutions of Wall Street crooks.
Jeremy Young #63: Precisely the problem
Nader: Re-regulation
Nader supporter next to me: “I don’t think there’s ever been a free market.”
Baldwin: Appoint Ron Paul or someone like him Secretary of the Treasury, bring back sound money, repeal Fed, IRS and income tax.
Baldwin: “The free market always works, it always has and it always will” — yeah, right. Even in Roman days there was a free market. And the emperor was just sort of a…senior stockbroker.
Baldwin: fiat money is fraudulent. We are the greatest debtor nation in the history of the world, debt growing with no end in sight.
Nader: corporations are shipping our jobs to fascist dictatorships, bailout is removing market discipline from big businesses but not small business. Put in a transaction tax on stock trades.
Baldwin is an excellent debater.
Nader: bailout is the collapse of corporate capitalist ideology.
Stop leading them on, Hedges.
Baldwin: Ron Paul endorsed me.
Baldwin: Toss out congressmen who voted for the bailout, and the federal reserve while we’re at it.
I wish they would’ve given the candidates more time to question each other. There’s no reason to have the same format as the corporate debates.
Nader: Corporations are giving more money to Obama than McCain.
Baldwin: Doesn’t matter which duopoly wing administers the same iniquities.
Hedges shouldn’t talk more than the candidates do. The Nader people here agree with me.
Baldwin: it’s like a choice between Nero and Caligula
In case you don’t know, this is live on CSpan 2 right now.
Nader: Democratic party ignores its base constituencies – both parties are getting worse every time, more controlled by corporations.
Hedges: What about the bailout?
They’re Arabs. According to McCain that makes them bad people.
Baldwin: 80% of Michigan voters willing to consider a third party
That’s not entirely fair about Obama’s donations, Nader, because he’s raised so much money in general that that is unavoidable. And Nader, does that mean money from the companies themselves or money from their employees?
Excellent point by Baldwin about the multi-party system in Iraq. If it’s good enough for them, why isn’t it good enough for us?
Baldwin: Republicans were a minor party in 1860.
Nader: Debate commission is a private company. Alternative candidates excluded from polls.
Hedges: What about pragmatism?
Tell us what they say, Jeremy!
Nader: Third parties put issues on the table first.
I’m watching the debate with Nader people. Good times.
Baldwin:
McCain 2008=Bob Dole 1996
No, here is good./
Should I start a new post?
Baldwin: A wasted vote is one for someone who does not have the same values you do.
Baldwin: Don’t waste your vote, don’t vote McCain. McCain can’t win, don’t compromise your principles.
Nader: Especially easy to vote for him in non-swing states.
Nader: that allows the least worst to ignore them and compromise with the worst instead.
First question: Zinn and Chomsky will vote for Obama, even though they have been very critical of major parties. Discuss.
Nader: rule by the people not the corporations, living wage, national health care
Tried that before at LFV, did not work as well.
Let’s start a post that we continually update instead of doing it in the comments.
CB: 100% pro-life, anti gay marriage, pro 2nd Amendment, anti immigration, declared wars only, state sovereignty
Mentions that the CP is 3rd in registrations, believes in the Constitution, and most of the country’s problems are because of the major parties ignoring the Constitution, the Bible, and their oath of office.
Chuck Baldwin intro
Debate rules being explained
http://theywillbeheard.com/
About 80 people in audience
live chat
http://www.rtrradio.com/chat.aspx
I watch basically one show per night.
To each their own. TV ain’t shit to me.
On the rare occasion I am not either on the computer or outdoors, if I don’t need to use the bathroom or kitchen or bed, I flip through the video/music channels for a few minutes.
Otherwise, fuggedaboutit.
Um no. Grey’s AnatonyEither Grey’s Anatomy or Nader+Baldwin.
Anyone else planning to liveblog besides me?
Grey’s Anatomy > Nader + Baldwin
Sorry guys… maybe next time…
Not completely. See the second link in my last comment.
Seems dumb. McKinney is completely opposed to participating in media…
I copied that in two of the posts linked in here
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/10/cynthia-mckinney-and-bob-barr-react-to-tonights-free-and-equal-debate-between-ralph-nader-and-chuck-baldwin/
and
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/10/green-party-presidential-candidate-cynthia-mckinney-on-npr-break-the-matrix-democracy-now-opednews-youtube/
Cynthia McKinney addressed her decision to not participate in this debate, and Ron Hardy wrote it up at Green Party Watch.
Anyone else planning to liveblog besides me?
RTR Radio will have Baldwin and hopefully Nader for post-debate interviews
Video of debate will be at theywillbeheard.com
I’m skeptical of the CA write-in story. Paul would’ve had to fill out and sign this form: http://www.frankmooreforpresident08.com/forms/california_statement_write-in_2008.pdf
@ TPW
# Bill Lussenheide Says:
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:44 pm
I can assure you that Ron Paul IS NOT a write in candidate in California.
I was involved in the process of getting Chuck Baldwin on the California certified write in list. The Secretary of State requires a declaration of candidacy SIGNED by the candidate, in addition to 55 notarized and jurated electoral college nominees. So unless Ron Paul signed a declaration, then he is not a write in candidate.
The deadline for paperwork was October 21st.
Are we talking about California?
It was on DailyPaul and LRC.
Do you have confirmation on that?
Im getting to it.
Nobody posted about Ron Paul now being an official write-in candidate in the most populous state in the Union?