Oregon Update: Plaintiff’s Response to Motion to Dismiss

The following “Response in Opposition to Defendants Knight, Tabor, Vetanen, Weston, Skyba and Karlock’s Rule 21 Motions” in Case No. CV 12010345 in the Oregon matter — see prior IPR articles here:


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(IPR readers seeking links to articles more than one year old can search using keywords such as “Oregon,” “Reeves,” “Wagner” etc . . .)


dated 20 August 2012 can be found here:

Smith Response to Jurisdiction Rule 21 Motion Small




32 thoughts on “Oregon Update: Plaintiff’s Response to Motion to Dismiss

  1. Joe Buchman Post author

    I’ll be offline all of next week; Going to Burning Man with my son; although in the past they have had some wifi hotspots out there, so I’ll try to get online and post updates from there.

    Any other IPR Burners?

  2. Wes Wagner

    We like to think of ourselves as the Afghanistan of Libertarian Politics.

    Empires come here expecting an easy victory, only to find out that it does not work so well.

  3. Wondering

    I didn’t see Richard Burke or Aaron Starr explain to us why their lawsuit is still pending? Do they want to replace the Wagner group of some 30 delegates for their measly 4? How will that better the Party? Wondering minds want to know.

  4. Only Wondering

    Mr. Holtz, I read the whole document, but I read nothing about candidates on the ballot. I will ask again: does anyone know if the group that includes Mr. Burke wishes to replace 32 or so candidates with their 4?

  5. Brian Holtz

    You asked “how will [continuing to beat your wife] better the Party?”

    A more relevant question is whether any such replacement would even be possible.

    But why let reality interfere with an anonymous drive-by smear against fellow Libertarians?

  6. Wes Wagner


    Glad to see you are doing your best to keep things off topic. Gotta distract people from the fact that by the time Starr and Burke are done they will have probably pissed away more money fighting for control of the Oregon party than has ever actually been spent on political activity out here in the history of the organization.

    That would be depressing…

    So what supplies are you bringing ot burning man?

  7. Joe Buchman Post author

    Wes — Just call it Oregon fatigue. Burning Man has certain Pyrrhic and nihilistic qualities that some in Oregon might find comforting.

    And then there’s this —


    I have a feeling law enforcement will demand more cash from Burning Man than is raised and that will be the end of it in a few years.

    Government itself being that agent which, in the end, burns it all down. Ernie Hancock would say that’s the only path that has ever led to more liberty — no one in all of human history having ever, not once, gotten more liberty by voting for it.

    The most important thing to take to Burning Man, at least IMO, is:

    1) my son (last year, my wife) — sharing the experience with someone else who is in one’s life all year makes it about 1,000,000,000,000 times better.

    2) a small RV — not too large, not a tent.

    3) water, lots of it.

    4) a shower. I can’t do playa dust for a full week — not even a full day.

    5) good food. Did all the cooking for Cindy last year with a certain elegance — crystal, candles, cocktails . . .

    6) a bike. It’s a city of 60,000+ people, with an art display area 3 or 4 times bigger than the populated portion of the city.

    7) lights and blinky things. Lots of art cars out on the playa — it’s important to see and be seen.

    8) costumes — something wild. And the right clothes – looks like it’ll be in the 40s at night and the 90s in the daytime this year. It can get down to freezing and into the 110s in other years.

    9) goggles and a dust mask. The sand/dust storms are Biblical. In 2010 I just started laughing because I was scared to death of being run over in a white out condition, I could not see my hand in front of my face, I could barely breathe, but I could hear the beat of the music from the various dance camps. A weird, almost alien concoction of sound. And I realized I was living a teenage dream — to be in Star Wars. I was exactly like a sandperson trying to find my way back to the Mos Eisley Cantina on Tatooine.

    10) videocamera. Otherwise it’s impossible to begin to share the experience with friends at home — and, looking over my past videos — it’s all even stranger and more wonderful than I’d remembered.

    And it’s part of my commitment to spend as much of the rest of my life in as Libertarian an environment as possible. The Vegas convention, Libertopia, Freedom Fest, and other similar events being key to that. If I can manage at least a month’s worth each year, maybe I can keep from going insane in what looks to me to be more and more like a giant prisoner of war camp.

  8. Jill Pyeatt

    No, Joe, I’m not going to “Burning Man”. Maybe some day, but not this year.

  9. Losty

    Joe, Have Fun.. Should be “Interesting”

    Now, Is Gary Johnson on the ballot for President in Oregon?

  10. Jill Pyeatt

    Yes, Losty, that happened a couple weeks ago.
    Johnson and Gray will be on Oregon’s ballot. We haven’t heard from Richard Burke since then.

  11. Jill Pyeatt

    JB @ 11: I AM going to Libertopia, although I’ll be working the CA LP table as opposed to wandering freely and attending meetings. Maybe I can sneak in to hear the Keaton, if I behave–

  12. Joe Buchman

    I’m planning to be at Libertopia again this year as well.

    I’m also, on another subject, protesting the Boy Scouts of American’s anti-gay membership policy. (Most of the World Organization of Scouting Movements are sexual-orientation indifferent — and have policies about behavior, not orientation).

    So I’ve recently proposed the following:

    I’d like to suggest a new strategy: Given that the BSA now stands unequivocally for dishonesty (knowingly allowing gays to register and service so long as they are hidden (dis-honest) about it, how about demonstrating the immorality of that via moral equivalence?

    What if instead of sending back our Eagle and other awards we all openly shared with the BSA that we are each gay as well — forcing them to manage the massive, time-consuming, resource-draining process of de-registration of all of us?

    When we have stood with the poor, the oppressed, with those degraded by racism, were we not also the poor, oppressed and the minority?

    If we truly stand with our gay Scout brothers and Sisters, are we not just as gay? So I now declare that I am gay with them and demand my de-registration.

    (Putting this out there as an idea/strategy for maximizing the impact we can each have for change; and the absurdity of this “just be quiet about it” immoral, degrading, unsustainable policy.)

  13. Wes Wagner

    JB @21

    O M G… you made me wish I was a boy scout just so I could do this. I am sure starchild would help us out too by posing in his best costume for a little smoochy picture to send with the letter! 🙂

    All for the cause, right Starchild?

  14. Wondering

    Now, now, guys, just because I was thinking about charging to have people watch me give Keaton a hug–;)

  15. Jill Pyeatt

    Speaking of Wondering, does anyone understand Brian Holtz’s comment at 8? Asking a question is a “drive-by smear”?

  16. Joe Buchman

    Wes @ 22

    So I’ve been wishing you were a Boy Scout for months now. You have certain qualities, Machiavellian even, that might not be entirely consistent with the current Oath and Law.

    Were you to become a Boy Scout, however, I’m relatively certain you would have those changed nationally, more to your liking, more or less immediately, without anyone knowing you were the prime mover behind the change.

    Or something like that.

    You’d probably change most of the songs in the songbook as well.

  17. Wes Wagner

    JB @28

    Shhhhhh … if you are going to tell secrets, make it the more benign ones… like that I am a secret furry.

  18. Joe Buchman

    Wes @ 29 —

    Well, if I’m going to reveal secrets — it was Las Vegas Odds Maker Wayne Allyn Root who bet me $10,000 that I couldn’t make you post publicly that you had longings to be a Boy Scout.

    I was sworn to secrecy about that, but now that the check has cleared . . .

  19. Jill Pyeatt

    Oh, Gawd…I now have a terrifying image in my head of a Boy Scout furry…or is it a furry Boy Scout??? What to do, what to do…

  20. paulie

    Las Vegas Odds Maker Wayne Allyn Root who bet me $10,000 that I couldn’t make you post publicly that you had longings to be a Boy Scout.

    What happens in Vegas…

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