Open Thread for Libertarian Presidential Nomination 2020

CAH to LNC:

I am preparing the One Note for this meeting. The link is here:
https://tinyurl.com/LNCOneNote071920

Still being worked on but here’s a sneak peek
https://verminsupremeinstitute.com/

[email protected] via googlegroups.com

11:46 PM (9 minutes ago)

to Libertarian, Caryn
The Chair will be forwarding a final agenda but items of business will
include
Introductions, Appointment of Assistant Treasurer, and Committee
Selections for the Executive Committee, APRC, Ballot Access Committee,
and EPCC.

Libertarian Party is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Topic: LNC Meeting
Time: Jul 19, 2020 08:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81919975943

Meeting ID: 819 1997 5943
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Paige,

The last 24 hours has been a bit of a roller-coaster. We elected a new LNC and Judicial Committee, including my good friend Joe Bishop-Henchman as Chair. I had to use my nursing skills to help with a minor medical emergency on the delegation floor. I was told I won my LNC At-Large election due to tellers leaking information early… then I got the call that I didn’t.

It is very unfortunate this happened. The balloting took to long (two days later) to count and verify. The balloting should have been counted and verified before the convention adjourned. We have to improve and do better next time.

[email protected] via googlegroups.com

8:24 AM (31 minutes ago)

to LNC-Business, Joe
Colleagues,

Below are my notes on who won the regional representative and alternate
elections. Please alert me ASAP if any of these are incorrect, as staff
would like to set up email access for them.

Regional Representatives:
Francis Wendt
Stephen Nekhaila
Dustin Nanna
Jeff Hewitt
Susan Hogarth
John Phillips Jr.
Whitney Bilyeu
Tucker Coburn

Regional Alternates:
Chris Luchini
David Sexton
Jared Hall
Tim Ferreira
David Valente
Matt Bughman
Erin Adams
Rich Bowen

JBH

————
Joe Bishop-Henchman
LNC Member (At-Large)
[email protected]
http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837

The thought of Vermin Supreme and Alicia Mattson serving together on the Judicial Committee gives me a good belly laugh.

Paige Sexton, Libertarian

The last 24 hours has been a bit of a rollercoaster. We elected a new LNC and Judicial Committee, including my good friend Joe Bishop-Henchman as Chair. I had to use my nursing skills to help with a minor medical emergency on the delegation floor. I was told I won my LNC At-Large election due to tellers leaking information early… then I got the call that I didn’t.

I am not discouraged. I will run again in 2022. I will be at every LNC meeting. I will, if chosen, be on committees. I will be fighting for ballot access, for our POTUS ticket, and for our local candidates. I will help expand youth outreach and the Frontier Project. I will do EVERYTHING I promised I would do just without the fancy title and a seat at the table.

I want to thank everyone who helped me since January in this campaign for LNC At-Large: my husband David Sexton, The Libertarian Party of Tennessee, Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus, JBH, Andy Craig, Adam Reinhardt, Steven Nekhaila, Liberty Claus Tom Arnold, Dave Jones, and so many more.

I am not done.

Jose, issue was that it was widely shared in a way that did not clarify it was preliminary. What happened was that it looked like the same format as final results, one of the tellers was confused and posted it public to FB, Darryl Perry saw it on their page, Jackie Perry saw it over his shoulder but was not friends with this person so Darryl sent her a screenshot which she shared on groups and other people shared from there.

It was just some confusion between inexperienced volunteer tellers and lack of adequately obvious labeling that results were not final, provided everyone is telling the truth about this.

I am aware preliminary results have been leaked to social media, which is unfortunate as those were not final.
JBH

This is no different then when we see preliminary results on the news during an election. We know it is not official but it gives us a good idea as to the results. Also, the counting of the ballots took to long and is taking to long. This has to be fixed for the future.

John Phillips to LNC list:

Just a reminder before someone reads the list and gets crazy on social media, most of these errors come from the state submissions. Teller errors do happen of course but 99% of those are caught in the audit.

John Phillips
Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative

Day 4 now available in recorded mode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiXOL2bo5Y

Joe Bishop-Henchman

Sent to the LNC email list:

Colleagues,

I’ve been conferring with the Secretary regarding the announcement of the remaining election results. They have been tabulated and audited twice, and we are currently waiting on state delegation chairs to verify the results. Our rules provide for the “scroll call” for this purpose and emailing them to verify the results was the best post-convention equivalent we could devise.

This last step is an important one because it caught three notable errors today (two in the secretary’s race and one in the At-Large race). We are waiting to hear back from remaining states before announcing the final results. The Secretary will be chasing down delegation chairs tomorrow as I know everyone is impatient for the results.

I am aware preliminary results have been leaked to social media, which is unfortunate as those were not final.
JBH

Too many citizens are denied the right to Initiative & Referendum. Over 30% of citizens nationwide are denied this right to be more engaged in their government. We have been successful in doing the legislative work when it chooses to ignore us for any reason, Wyoming 1992. Citizens in 24 states have NO recourse to an overreaching legislature. In Alabama, we do not have I&R, though mentioned in our 1901 State Constitution Convention. We are controlled by being denied legislative referendums for recall, gaming, decriminalizing of marijuana for a few examples. The legislature pushed a fuel tax onto us in the shortest period of time allowed by the Constitution. I have little doubt had we had Referendum, we would have been able to tell the legislature “not this time.”
Let the People Vote.
I call upon the LNC to take action for an educational policy of the process and its benefits nationwide and to assist states, counties, and municipalities needing this right. LetBamaVote on Fbook and www

I hate Bill Redpath didn’t make it though. Perhaps that’ll give him more time to focus on ballot access.

His LNC votes are not great, he’s much better with ballot access when LNC doesn’t distract him and so it’s a win all around if true.

If true – that’s quite a win for the Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus. I hate Bill Redpath didn’t make it though. Perhaps that’ll give him more time to focus on ballot access.

The percentages for the secretary vote are wrong. That’s not a majority of the total votes.

I don’t now the answer to that yet, and I don’t know if anyone does. I know they were supposed to have vacated the room a bit more than half an hour ago and I don’t know how tightly that is enforced. There was the better part of an hour from adjournment to that time so I don’t know how much of the work to get to that point was done by then. Some of it can continue to be done after they leave the room but will be delayed by various people catching up on food, sleep, other things they have to do, traveling back home, etc, etc.

I’ll keep monitoring the LNC list and various FB groups to see what is announced when and will post updates here as I see them.

The 2020 Libertarian National Convention has adjourned, without finishing its business.

Usually, that happens because at a physical convention there are hard room time limits, the vast majority have fixed flight times out, etc.

THIS time, we didn’t have that problem. We could have adjourned to future online sittings and completed the bylaws and platform business.

THIS time, we adjourned without finishing our business because 2/3 of the body couldn’t be convinced to DO THE FUCKING JOB THEY ASKED TO BE GIVEN when they asked to be delegates.

Thanks for reading and commenting!

Hopefully more people will get a chance to do so now that it’s over and to provide additions, corrections, and opinions.

FB comments

“Most states tally in some type of spreadsheet – that is keyed into a Google Doc – which is then downloaded into a Word Doc – then totals are keyed into the Word Doc – then saved to PDF – then sent to LNC – then LNC keys from Word Doc to Google Sheets.”

Disputed by other comments. If anyone here knows, please elucidate.

Zoom ended. Or at least I was booted from it. Will go see if utube is still going.

Alex Merced thanked for his service on LNC and as second sitting convention chair.

Andre Klass fundraising for his Seminole County FL Commission race again.

Question as to whether the at large and JC can be submitted and counted.

I think what was said was that they can be submitted and will have to be counted after adjournment. I believe this is where CAH point of info came in that remaining tellers would not be able to count At Large and JC results in the remaining time anyway.

I was wrong earlier, already adjourned.

Well, we the tellers have busted our asses to get it right, on the fly, with delegates changing the rules as well go.

Frankly, blame the delegates for changing things up and not knowing how to vote properly.

I *know* the tellers are fine.

Motion to suspend the rules to amend 10.1 for this year only special provision allowing LNC to call a special online convention of all regularly credentialed 2020 delegates to completely normally scheduled convention business.

Failed both in person and online.

Various motions and points of order to extend time.

Motion to extend time to 5 pm.

No in person LNC post convention meeting, will be held online. Earlier announcement that I think I forgot to note.

Another term for CAH for Secretary with 52% and change but some states are disputing exact numbers. Doesn’t sound like it would overturn the result.

Call for division ruled dilatory.

Updates on other parties from BAN relative here

Delegates to Democratic National Convention Can Vote Electronically
Posted on July 11, 2020 by Richard Winger
4

On July 10, the Democratic National Committee announced that delegates to the national convention can vote electronically for president, vice-president, and platform changes. Each delegate will be e-mailed a ballot and that delegate can fill out the ballot and return it electronically. See this story. The voting period will be August 3-15.

There were some Libertarian Party activists who argued that the Libertarian Party needed a physical convention to nominate for president and vice-president, and that to go without a physical meeting risked breaking the election laws of a few states. The Democratic Party decision seems to show that those fears were groundless. Thanks to Michael Drucker for this news.

Bad sound but I think I heard CAH say that abortion 1.5 got enough tokens to be considered for deletion.

Here’s the speech I would have given, had speeches for At-Large not been eliminated:
I’ve been a life member of the Libertarian Party since 2008. I’m a former chair of the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire, and a member of the Acting Judicial Committee.
I believe we need to stop handing out LNC At-Large seats as consolation prizes for losing an LNC Officer election, because historically losing candidates spend two years undermining their previous opponent.
#NoIncumbents4LNC #StopTheShenanigans
Vote Darryl W. Perry, Valerie Sawark, Desarae Lindsey, Richard Fast & Pat Ford for LNC At-Large!

Darryl W. Perry
Visual Storyteller
· 1 hr
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – unofficial
here is the speech I was going to give:
I’ve been a life member of the Libertarian Party since 2008. I’m a former chair of the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire, and a member of the Acting Judicial Committee.
I believe we need to stop handing out LNC At-Large seats as consolation prizes for losing an LNC Officer election, because historically losing candidates spend two years undermining their previous opponent.
#NoIncumbents4LNC #StopTheShenanigans
Vote Darryl W. Perry, Valerie Sawark, Desarae Lindsey, Richard Fast & Pat Ford for LNC At-Large!

Pat Ford
New Member
· 54 mins
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
My name is Pat Ford and I seek your vote for the AT Large Seat of the Libertarian National Committee
I’ve also served as
Rhode Island State LP Chair (the home of legislative candidate Billy Hunt)
Ive served as
Interim Region 8 Alternate
LNC Affiliate Support Committee
LSLA and
The Host of An Hour With The Candidates on LPTV, where our goal is nothing less than to interview every single Libertarian Down Ballot Canididate in America)
For over 10 years, my passion has been communicating the Libertarian Statement of Principles,Platform & Philosophy in the media, and at every single opportunity available
From Affiliate Conventions .. to picket lines protesting corporate cronyism … to legislative hearings … to Gubanatorial Press Conferences … to somber observances of International Sex Workers Day at local LGBTQIA clubs
I;ve delivered that message on TV … Radio … Print … . My LNC Goal? In addition to adding an activist’s voice to the stewardship of the LNC, i want to work with National & Affiliate Members to deliver “That Libertarian” message to the world … from Town Councils, School Boards, State Houses .. to the White House.
2 Comments

Suspension fails to consider the Starchild covid motion.

Desarae Lindsey
23 mins · Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
What would have been Vermin Supreme’s candidate speech for Judicial Committee:
Hello fellow delegates, My name is Vermin Supreme
and I asking for your confidence to become a member of the judicial committee of our fine party.
I am a lifetime member of the libertarian party, My decades long history of political activism- leading through love, humor, and a smile will serve as a positive influence on a committee that is typically reserved for the most rancorous disagreements that arise in our party.
As an activist, de-escalation, at protests, at Rainbow Gatherings, in everything I do, has been a cornerstone of my work. I have spent years working to reduce conflicts and prevent violence. That experience will guide me as we work to navigate difficult situations.
I believe that we are strongest as a party when we stand united together, working to achieve our mission, of a world set free in our lifetime.
Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity, and I hope to serve you all as a member of our Judicial Committee.

Christopher Thrasher via zoom

I humbly ask for your Judicial Committee vote. I focus not on celebretariansim, but on doing the work promoting Libertarianism. I carry water for no caucus. I call BS when I see it, no matter from whom or from what caucus it may emanate. This, in the words of John Adams makes me “obnoxious, suspected, and unpopular.” I would ask you, isn’t that exactly the type of individual you would want on the Judicial Committee? ?

Weather moving in, if I get knocked offline that’s most likely why.

Resolution on opposition to government responses to covid 19. Anyone know what if anything LNC did with the one they passed?

Got VC.

JC speeches eliminated and At large I believe as well but I could use confirmation on the at large part. Did not have time to catch the rest of the VC results. I think D’Orazio was next with iirc 23.70%. If anyone has the rest of the numbers, percentages, screenshots, or links to where they are posted please comment with that info and I will add it when I find it.

Motion to eliminate nominating speeches for at large and jc. Divided.

Moellman acceptance speech.

Secretary going out.
NOTA invalidates any other votes.
Approval, 1 vote per candidate, vote for as many as you want.

Ruth Bennett
20 mins
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
I would appreciate your vote for our Judicial Committee.
Here are some of my qualifications:
* I have been a member of the Libertarian Party since 1978 and a Life Member since 2000.
* Served multiple terms as State Chair in Colorado and Washington State. Other state LP offices, too.
* Served as an At-Large member and Regional Rep on rhe LNC
* Served on Judicial Committee as Chair
* Run for office 7 tines in 3 states including historic race in 2004 for Governor in WA.
* Served 7 years on my local school board
* Run 3 National Conventions, Denver in 1981, Seattle in 1987 and Las Vegas in 2012
* Served on multiple national Platform and Bylaws Committees
And so much more!
These activites give me an in depth and breadth knowledge of the Libertarian Party, its history, structure, affiliates and governing documents.
There are some good reasons to choose for the Judicial Committee members who have such experience: the “greybeards,” elder statespeople, if you will.
I hope those are the ones you will choose to serve you on our Judicial Committee.
I ask that I be one of your votes for Juducial Committee.
Thank you for your time and service.
Ruth E. Bennett
Candidate for Judicial Committee

Noticed on FB. Note: I am posting any of these here as I see them on FB or wherever. I do not have the time and ability to see every post on every group. I post them as I see them, not based on whether I am endorsing or not.

Beth Vest
Just now
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – unofficial
I am running for judicial committee. Rather than tell you what I will do, I will tell you that I hope we don’t have to do much. In case we do, I am ready to protect members, assist the committee, and help settle requests by considering what is fair within our internal rules, and relevant law in the real world. I don’t covet committee seats, but feel I can serve the best interests of the party as JC committee member.
I am a third-year law student, Libertarian life member, former vice-chair of LSLA, and former chair of the women’s caucus. I am a former member of my state central committee, and former secretary of my parish committee. I also served on the Affiliate Support Committee.
I hope I can earn your vote here today. I would also like to endorse fellow life-member D Frank Robinson, who’s institutional knowledge is unsurpassed and as a party founder will serve with distinction, and with the best interest of the party in mind.

I can only check CAH screen sporadically. Have not seen a finally tally for VC round 1, only state by state. I believe those are the ones that are being double checked state by state now.

Mark Rutherford spoke for Evan McMahon first, then Nick Sarwick, then JBH, then Evan McMahon.

Angela McArdle nomination speech for Caryn Ann Harlos

I figured VC would have been decided an hour ago. This just keeps dragging on.

CAH mentioned their technology sucks. Approval voting will make At Large and JC a clusterfuck if we even get that far.

Secretary nominations.

Starting with Evan McMahon.
Missed his first nominator.
Now Sarwark for McMahon.

Avens O’Brien plugging free photo services for candidates and others who want it onsite in Orlando.

More people getting their lifetime pins.

Next 10 people get $200 off ($1300 vs $1500, minus any donations within the past year).

[email protected] and offer good today only.

Correction, he is there.

Motion to divide (what?) does not pass.

I think CAH may have mixed up Carla Howell with Barbara Howe. Need to cross reference my list with hers. Hard to do because I can only see hers if I full screen it. If she is reading maybe she’ll see this.

I think I was correct. I now see Barbara Howe and do not see Carla Howell on CAH screen.

I think CAH may have mixed up Carla Howell with Barbara Howe. Need to cross reference my list with hers. Hard to do because I can only see hers if I full screen it. If she is reading maybe she’ll see this.

List of JC Nominations:
Chris Thrasher
Phillip Anderson
Mark Tuniewicz
Mark Gingell
Mark ?
Chuck Moulton
Beth Vest
Matthew Long
Carla Howell
Carla Howell
Jim Turney
Roger Roots
Daniel Lewis
Tom Arnold
Mike Dixon
Alicia Mattson
Vermin Sumpreme
Tricia Sprankle
John Butterick
Mary Ruwart
Mark Whitney
Michael Kielsky
Chris Weist
Ruth Bennet
Tyler Smith
Carolyn Wade
Paul Grindle
Eric Holder
D. Frank Robinson

Motion to close

Thank you for keeping up with this liveblog. I’ve been trapped at work over the weekend and this has been my only way to keep up everyday. You’re def appreciated.

Thank you! And you’re welcome. The more people let me know they are reading even if you don’t have time to say anything else the less lonely it feels.

Thank you for keeping up with this liveblog. I’ve been trapped at work over the weekend and this has been my only way to keep up everyday. You’re def appreciated.

James Weeks nominates Mark Whitney, no reply.

John Phillips nominates D. Frank Robinson, accepts.

Nominations for JC resume.

Roger Roots, accepts
Deb Payne nominates Chris Thrasher, Alex says yes

I think I forgot to note that someone said it’s too cold in the room for the in person people.

Not sure what happened with Sarwark motion on voting methods.

VC results round 1 are up on the screen and being double checked by state delegations.

Scott Lieberman wants a counted vote of in person delegates to see about extending to 3 pm.

I believe it was ruled dilatory. Lieberman keeps going . It would take a vote to decide whether to have the counted vote. Merced says 2/3 was clear when including online.

JC nominations next.

Beth Vest nominated by Erin Adams.

Extension to 3 pm eastern passes.

Nominations for At large closed. I think I got at least one of the nominators above wrong,

Sarwark motions on procedure, I only heard part of it.

Merced explains: vote for only 5 at large, 7 JC. Suspend rules, requires 2/3

Secy and VC approval requires 50% plus one? Part of the motion or point of info?

I think earlier point of info was NOTA plus others invalidates multi candidate ballots.

Someone said Josh Smith messaged “OK” (to accepting). Hung over and sleeping it off? Family or health emergency?

Karen Thompson nominates Dan Behrman, accepts

Secretary screen says Alex Flores was nominated and I presume accepted. I did not hear it, probably while sound was out.

Someone from NJ, nominates Mike Rufo, accepts.

Someone from NY, nominates Piet Geraci, accepts

Rob Latham nominates Longstreth contingent on losing VC, accepts.

Evan McMahon? nominates Boomer Shannon, accepts.

Dan Faust nominates James Weeks, accepts.

Erin Adams nominates Geoff Neale contingent on losing VC, accepts.

someone from FL nominates Omar Recuero, accepts.

Timothy Perkins CAH for at large contingent on losing secy, accepts

Liz De Signore nominates Richard Fast, accepts.

David Sexton nominates Paige Sexton, Accepts,

Mark Rutherford nominates Sam Goldstein, Accepts

Paul Grindle accepts Henry Conoly, accepts.

Justin Bake nominates Kieran O’Se. Accepts.

someone from TN nominates Josh Smith, who does not respond. Alex says he assumes he does.

Bill Redpath nominated. JBH said he is petitioning today and accepts,

Richard Manzo nominated and accepts.

Omar Recuero nominates Alicia Mattson, accepts.

I think those 3 were it for secy and all accepted. Correct me if wrong,

I thought Alex said Josh Smith 2 minute concession was next but I did not hear it. JBH acceptance speech next. Thanks Sarwark for service and lists some of the last 6 years accomplishments. Says he will save attacks for Ds and Rs, not other LP members. Will disagree respectfully. Promises to serve all LP members, not just those who voted for him. Was president of UC Berkeley LP. Too busy “getting stuff done for internal bullshit. Whatever you skill we will keep you busy.” Thanks his husband Ethan Bishop-Henchman. Get on with real work, finish business here, elect Libertarians in November, etc.

Fundraising for Libertarian Frontier Project. https://www.libertarianfrontier.com/

Apollo Pazell mentions they are getting matched 1 for 1 by Chris Rufer. 1k winning bid… wasn’t clear if it went to Richard Manzo or Boomer Shannon. They auction a Ron Paul 1988 sign previously owned by Chris Lucchini (sp?) of NM.

Kryssi Wichers nominates Evan McMahon for Secy.
Marcus Baker nominated Dave Jones of TN.
Angela McArdle nominated CAH

Secretary nominations next.

First VC ballot is out. Approval voting.

joogle runs the clock until he gets dragged off the stage with a cane.

John Phillips up next for Longstreth. Going for cheap applause line by asking if Merced is doing a great job. Doesn’t seem to get as much applause as he expected if I heard correctly, but maybe it’s just where the mics are.

Skipped a name? Not sure.

Erin Adams for Longstreth.

Missed one of the nominators. Then Longstreth for himself.

Geoff Neale is up next, for himself I think. Hard to hear,

Jacob Lamont…for himself? Also 1 minute for same reason, also hard to hear. I don’t think he took his full minute.

joogle 5 min next, Longstreth and Neale after that.

joogle for himself. Also hard to hear.

Wood “send the hoppeans back to their helicopters”

Tony D’Orazio next.

Jim Fulner for Jeff Wood.

Dan Reale (CT) not available today. Someone else just said vote for nota and yielded time. Dan Pozner Alt of CA speaking for Jeff Wood and libertarian socialism/audacious.

Ken Continuing…Randall Daniel (sp?) of KY
Ken for himself.

Speeches are on, starting with Moellman.
Skipped who all was speaking for Ken, many of them were hard to hear, but Andy Jacobs was easy to hear as is Sam Goldstein.

Point of personal privilege Alligators are hungry
gator caucus https://www.facebook.com/groups/1135252366842101

Often, attempts to save time in these things achieve the opposite.

Arguing how much time for speeches.

Today’s video live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiXOL2bo5Y

Back in session. Zoom problems. 1056 credentialed in report. Susan reminds people to check out if leaving. 839 I think she said delegates. Quorum 423. Not hearing well because my phone zoom for sound is playing hold music, I am also playing youtube for the sound on my phone but not hearing well because both are playing at the same time. I am also logged in to zoom on the laptop for polls/visuals but device has no working sound. I could just use utube on phone for sound but have been told there is a time lag,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jquCePSPv2Y&feature=youtu.be

“The people who made plans to travel down there, or even participate remotely, did so with an understanding of what day and roughly what time business could be expected to end.”

They also did so with an understanding that the convention would start on the 9th instead of the 10th. Why should we let the Thursday credentials report terrorists win?

Libertarian Party Elects New National Chair
Posted on July 11, 2020 by Richard Winger

The Libertarian Party held the first half of its national convention in late May, and nominated for president and vice-president virtually. It then set a second meeting for July 10-12 in Orlando, Florida, to elect party officers. On Saturday, July 11, it elected a new national chair, Joseph Bishop-Henchman. It also re-elected its Treasurer. It will vote on Sunday for Vice-Chair, Secretary, and national committee, and judicial committee if there is time.

The July convention included virtual delegates voting electronically, but over 300 delegates chose to attend in person. The room for the meeting was exceedingly large, which made social distancing feasible.

TLK, I really seriously doubt you could maintain quorum until Monday evening or Tuesday afternoon, in any setting. People do have jobs, lives, kids, business, and all sorts of other hobbies and stuff to do. August 1st is even less realistic.

Stop messing around? I know you are not new so you know as well as I do we can expand business damn near endlessly . It’s true we could get some more done if we extend for a few hours tomorrow. I’m not sure how many people will be how pissed off if that happens, but it’s at least something to reasonably consider. Past tomorrow is either wishful thinking or a nightmare, depending on your degree of tolerance for this stuff.

How exactly do you Ballroom Dance at 6 feet?

I think the bast majority of the 350 (or 450) people are not social distancing. Of those who are, some wouldn’t be going to the gala regardless, and of those not all would be dancing. Of the ones dancing, some are in couples who would not be social distancing from each other even if they are from other people.

THIS year, 80% of the delegates are online

Majority but nowhere near 80%. The most recent figures I saw were 500-something to 400-something.

Day 3 video is now back at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS1lhVuvoiw and can be accessed by timestamp.

Day 1 and 2 also still currently up at https://www.youtube.com/user/LibertarianParty/videos

If I am not mistaken the pre-convention LNC meeting and chair debate videos are currently missing, although posted earlier. There were takedowns for using copyrighted music during breaks, title typos, etc.

U.S. District Court Expects to Deny Presidential Ballot Access Relief to Alaska Libertarian Party
Posted on July 11, 2020 by Richard Winger
2

On July 10, U.S. District Court Judge John W. Sedwick issued a one-page order, predicting that he will deny relief to the Alaska Libertarian Party for its presidential petition. His order says the party has not been petitioning in a few of Alaska’s population centers, and also that the party has not been postally mailing petition blanks to most party registrants. He said he is issuing the order now, before finally making up his mind, so that the party can be on notice and can be continuing to petition.

The Alaska Libertarian Party presidential petition is probably two-thirds finished, and is not due until August 5. It requires 3,212 signatures.

Ha, but I’m not the one who got the winning chair race totals. Hope more people join us!

Round 2 Totals:
Joseph Bishop-Hinchman 528 / 54.49%
Joshua Smith 379 / 39.11%
Write In: D’Orazio 4, Nicholas Sarwick 1

Just saw this. Thanks Reed!

Still looking for screenshot if/when someone has one.

Looking for a screenshot of round 2 results. Someone please post a link if you find it before I do.

I’m not sure how the hell they’re going to get all of those positions elected before 1:00 tomorrow.

Not sure if, not only how. Platform seems highly unlikely. As does any additional bylaws proposals. JC? Dunno.

I’m not sure how the hell they’re going to get all of those positions elected before 1:00 tomorrow.

Alex has done a great job of chairing so far, but that last 20 minutes was an abortion. It was perfectly legitimate to move to extend, and the motion was made before 6pm, so the appeal was legit as well.

With the vast majority of the body online, a quorum would have remained even if EVERY LAST IN-PERSON DELEGATE decided to go dance or eat pizza. So we could have done business all night.

This convention is a chance for us to actually DO THE FUCKING BUSINESS WE CAME TO DO instead of blowing a bunch of it off. We should take advantage of that opportunity. Instead, we burned the entire first day on a bullshit rebellion against the party by the in-person delegates, and now we’re supposed to adjourn so that people don’t have to decide between doing their fucking jobs or going to a dance.

Round 2 Totals:
Joseph Bishop-Hinchman 528 / 54.49%
Joshua Smith 379 / 39.11%
Write In: D’Orazio 4, Nicholas Sarwick 1

Merced says his ruling can’t be challenged because business has already expired. Orders of the day for the morning is acceptance by winning chair candidate followed by vice chair speeches. Screen for state by state tallies is on secretary screen on youtube and zoom.

Motion to add a session from 7 pm to 10 pm. Ruled dilatory.

5 minutes each for VC speeches except candidates who ran for chair at 1 minute each.

Order of speeches for VC

Ken Moellman
NOTA
Jeff Wood
Tony D’Orazio
Jacob Lamont
James Ogle
Richard Longstreth
Geoff Neale

Sam Goldstein

· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Officially Unofficial
All delegates have been disenfranchised by the Convention Chair! NOTA should only get 1 minute per the motion just passed!

Dan Reale and Nick Sarwark wish to speak for NOTA.

Maine is the last remaining state to get its tally sheet in for chair round 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCWeiEvFMDQ

Sarwark exit speech earlier today. It was…bittersweet.

Point of information, list of VC nominated so far

Tony D’Orazio
Richard Longstreth
Ken Moellman
Geoff Neale
Jacob Lamont
joogle
Jeff Wood

Did I miss any?

Angela Fisher
Conversation Starter
· 26 mins
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
FYI Josh boot lickers are drunk and angry on site. So far both Resa Willis
and I have been verbally assaulted.
I make this announcement to keep everyone’s eyes open to keep our delegates safe.

Point of information, expected time estimate on 2nd chair ballot. Many states have not yet turned in their tallies.

Clarified platform tokens closed. Clarified bylaws proposal 4 which passed does not take effect til close of convention. Move to keep people not speak repeatedly. Merced rules out of order but will preference those who have not already spoken.

Point of info would it be in order to close nominations except for Supreme and the Chair candidates.

Merced says out of order but will stop recognizing people for the purpose of VC nominations for now.

Valerie Sarwark nominated, does not accept, will continue to run for at large.

Lamont finally gets to speak and accepts.

Motion to close nominations.

Ruled out of order until after chair’s race is done.

Ken Moellman nominated. Moellman accepts and affirms qualified.

Merced clarifies that is correct; only opening nominations, not closing them.

Hagan elected by acclaim, I believe.

Suspension of the rules passed. Tim Hagan nominated for Treasurer.

Appeal of the voting of the chair. I did not catch which one. Alex says the appeal is dilatory.

Motion to extend adjournment from 5 pm eastern today (in less than an hour) to 6 pm.

Sorry to be flippant, but why do people act like online petitions matter?

Someday I’m going to start an online petition for the purpose of banning online petitions. If I get a certain level of signatures and online petitions are not then banned, I would have made my point.

100,000 signatures at least in theory require an official response from the white house. I’m not sure if they are still honoring that or not. They can also be ways to engage, identify and data-capture existing and new supporters. As they get shared on social media, etc, they get engagement and people see future posts about the party/candidate more. As they get shared via email new email addresses, and any other info people share such as their social media accounts, phone numbers, snail mail, email etc; they can also be used to engage those people for donations and other volunteer activities for the campaign, invite their friends, get people to look into candidates they did not know about before, etc, etc.

Sorry to be flippant, but why do people act like online petitions matter?

Someday I’m going to start an online petition for the purpose of banning online petitions. If I get a certain level of signatures and online petitions are not then banned, I would have made my point.

Andrew Kolstee 2:47 PM
This is a bad idea. If NOTA wins, D’Orazio and Lamont would be thrown off and couldn’t continue.

Resa Willis
Rising Star
· 2 mins
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
We have been working quietly behind the scenes for over a year to create this movement that will debut very soon. We have NFL players, Miss World, and other celebs who have made videos for this. If you would like to join us to make a short video (a single phrase), or grab something literature, come to my table or DM me. Here is the website for a peek at what we are all about:
https://humilitarian.us

Ted Brown
2 mins
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
Now it would seem logical to suspend the rules and remove everyone but Joe, Joshua, and NOTA from the next ballot. Then we will have a winner on the next ballot. But otherwise we will have no other elections but chair for the day.

Without a vote passing to that affect, Shipley will be the only removed on the next round if I understand correctly.

425 JBH
327 Smith
86 D’Orazio
60 Lamont
38 Shipley
27 NOTA
Write-ins 4 Dulap, 2 Brandon Nelson, 1 Alex Merced.

I thought I posted this earlier but not finding it now. This is what I am using to spread the word about this. Please share as widely as possible with anyone who may be interested and encourage anyone and everyone else to do so as well. Use your own language if you prefer,

“Please spread the word however you can: Convention liveblog continues at https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2020/05/open-thread-for-libertarian-presidential-nomination-2020/ from the first sitting , newest comments at the bottom. You are welcome to comment there as well, please help with updates, discussion or both. Corrections or discussion on anything earlier in the thread also welcome. If you have not commented at IPR before I can approve your comments,”

Mark Tuniewicz asks whether there are ways to speed up vote counting.

Alex replies that various motions to that effect are in the queue but will be consider after the first round which has now been tallied and is being displayed on the Secretary’s screen.

Joe Bishop-Henchman

A big thank you to my nominators and seconders:

Ethan Bishop-Henchman, member, DC Libertarian Party
Ashley Shade, Chair, Outright Libertarians
Steve Scheetz, Chair, Libertarian Party of Pennsylvania
Tim Hagan, LNC Treasurer and Treasurer, Libertarian Party of Nevada
Ryan Thomas Graham, Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
Laura Ebke, former Senator, State of Nebraska
The Rev. Adam Christian Reinhardt

I’m truly humbled

#LetHerSpeak
https://www.facebook.com/groups/letherspeak

A One-Day Nationwide Peaceful Protest Convoy
On Saturday, August 8th, 2020, at 11:30 am CST, join us in demanding Jo Jorgensen is allowed to debate on the 2020 National Debate Stage.
Jo Jorgensen will be an option on most state ballots, but without hearing our Libertarian values and positions directly from her, they will not be able to compare her equally to Trump or Biden.
The Commission of Presidential Debates is refusing to allow third parties to debate without polling at 15% in polls they conduct. The caveat? They don’t ask about third party candidates in those polls.
?We’re calling on libertarian candidates, officials, and members to lead a peaceful protest convoy in your county at the same time and day, all across America.
Learn More at Let-Her-Speak.org!

https://people4liberty.org/let-her-speak

More fundraising and various announcements. Sound sucks and distracted with other stuff. Would welcome all the help I can get keeping up with stuff here. If not, it is what it is, and live video is at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS1lhVuvoiw

That URL may change after the fact.

Currently Rick Stewart, running against Sen. Jodi Ernst and a Democrat in IA.

Days 1 and 2 and other past videos are at https://www.youtube.com/user/LibertarianParty/videos as this one will be.

Chase Oliver plugs Outright Libertarians

http://www.outrightusa.org/

and presenting lifetime pin to Spike Cohen.

Someone asks point of order, would it be in order to open VC nominations while C nominations are counted and to include chair candidates in case they lose for chair and want to run for VC. Merced: in order, but please wait until the 2nd round if one is needed before doing so.

Announcements continue. Valente (LPWV chair) introduces their top of the state race ticket/ballot access candidate, Erica. I’ll have to look her up later, the sound was not good enough to catch her last name but I’ll try to remember to look it up later (or, someone please beat me to it).

My sound is cutting in and out in general. I suspect it’s on my end as I live rural and don’t always have the best reception for phone calls. I don’t have sound on my computer so I’m in the zoom call from my phone. I could in theory get better sound from my house phone, but it’s not a cordless and doesn’t have a speaker phone, and I’m not going to sit here craning my neck with a phone to my ear. Others are welcome and encouraged to fill in whatever all I am missing. Don’t be scared if we overlap.

Starr(?) resolution, ratifying the Jorgensen-Cohen ticket passes without objection…if I understood the terrible sound I am getting correctly,

Pat Dixon, candidate for US Senate in Texas, election this Tuesday. Again if I heard that right.

Positivelypat.org

Says he hired electronic outreach which is doing well and seeking volunteers to help with that.

As promised:

13 doesn’t address a lot of issues, like California getting its own JC member, what to do for non-region affiliates like Idaho and Mississippi, what happens if a region dissolves, and can a region recall a JC member?

13-A doesn’t cover cases of only 1-4 JC members elected, which leaves no quorum to meet to backfill.

My understanding is that 13A passed and takes immediate effect. I think the current plan is to have JC elections after LNC elections and platform after that. Bylaws could be reopened, but would need 2/3 to be reopened. If any of that is incorrect someone please correct me, or anything else requiring correction anywhere above. Feel free to add other thoughts, arguments or observation on anything said above or in any way related to either sitting of this convention.

I would appreciate additional help with this liveblog as well. Don’t be afraid to be redundant, there are any number of things I may be missing and or getting wrong.

Various announcements and speeches while first round chair ballots are being tallied. Currently a candidate in Florida, I did not catch the name and office.

There was an attempt to have a speech from the Dulap campaign. It was either shot down or delayed, not sure.

Back in session, I think.

Partial quote from that comment:

Heading back to LP thread now, will check back here after LP convention.

Please comment here with Green Party convention updates, post additional articles if signed up to do so, and if you want to be signed up to post articles and are not already please see https://independentpoliticalreport.com/join-ipr-team/ and please read the whole thread including comments before applying. It is not a paid position, the amount of time you put into your volunteer commitment if you make one will be up to you and subject to IPR rules also discussed in that thread, and if we don’t already know you well your first few posts would have to be already approved by an existing IPR editor before they go live.

Existing editor contact info, names, and more can be found at https://independentpoliticalreport.com/about/

We’ve been and as of now still are at lunch.

Thank you Reed, I was starting to wonder 🙂

This is way more fun when more people participate or at least let me know they are here 🙂

Everyone please spread the word and get more people here.

Here’s what I have been posting. Please feel free to copy and paste or rephrase as you see fit.

Please spread the word however you can: Convention liveblog continues at https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2020/05/open-thread-for-libertarian-presidential-nomination-2020/ from the first sitting , newest comments at the bottom. You are welcome to comment there as well, please help with updates, discussion or both. Corrections or discussion on anything earlier in the thread also welcome. If you have not commented at IPR before I can approve your comments,

Announcement of povertarian pizza banquet tonight, pay what you can. I have the online and in person locations somewhere above and may post them later as well if I get a chance, or others are welcome to do so.

Fishman claims they are showing Josh’s video, but I still do not hear anything.

If and whenever that is concluded the balloting will begin.

Onsite delegates going to lunch after announcements.

Erin Adams announces gala tonight. Suite 235 (I think) has an assortment of gala gowns. Open starting 1:45 pm.

Dan Fishman: Needs Smith video on messenger to play for zoom delegates at the beginning of the online lunch.

I think there was a request to have online balloting begin during the onsite delegates’ lunch. Onsite delegates can also vote during lunch if they want. However Alex says do not distribute in person or online ballots until online delegates have had a chance to listen/watch Smith nomination video.

Supreme says Shipley, unlike Dulap, is a human, not a lizard, and he says a very good human. Goes on to list various accomplishments of Mr. Shipley.

Shipley is recognized next. Technical issues being worked out. Then lunch.

Merced threatens to mute mikes if people campaigning out of turn do not stop.

Merced reminds everyone to turn in their platform tokens.

Fishman is working on unmuting Shipley and possibly others. Shipley askes to unmute Supreme.

It may have been a video, not sure.

Steve Nekhaila (FL) speaking for Josh. I can hear him fine.

Starchild again for Lamont.

Moving on to Josh Smith.

Rob Stratton (WA) for Lamont.

Starchild nomination for Lamont. Said he did not decide until the chair debate.

Ten minutes on the clock for NOTA. Someone is speaking, but I don’t know who. NOTA is always on the LP ballot, but does not always get nomination speeches.

If NOTA wins the previously nominated candidates are struck from consideration and new candidates are nominated.

Chair of Oregon, whose name I also failed to catch, is making a speech for NOTA…sort of. Mainly a speech for party unity. “Better if no one won” than if people are very negative to someone not from their faction winning from the get go.

Laura Ebke for JBH.

Someone I missed for JBH. Steve….Scheetz?

Tim Hagan for JBH.

JBH speeches are next.

EBH speech for JBH.

Geraci speech for D’Orazio

Nominating speeches are next. Will figure out random order.

1st ballot will be (not in order, that is not available while I type):

JBH
Josh Smith
Shipley
D’Orazio
NOTA
write-ins

Timothy Perkins nominates NOTA, although NOTA is automatically in without nomination.

Darryl Perry nominates Dulap Nelson (a lizard). Merced rules that Dulap does not meet the qualifications.

Valente (WV) moves to close nominations.

Fulner (MI) nominates Mike Shipley. Shipley accepts.

D’Orazio accepts. Someone from KY nominates Merced. Merced thanks the delegate and declines.

Nick Sarwark address to the body.

Jake Leonard: need petitioners and ballot access donations in Cook County, IL. Filing deadline Mon, Jul 20

217-565-9273 Jake Leonard

Slate of county candidates.

https://www.lpillinois.org/donate/

Specify Cook County Ballot Access.

Someone: https://www.libertarianfrontier.com/
Libertarian Frontier Project

Passes both online and in person.

Recuero (FL) moves to amend the rules to add JC elections after LNC elections.

Rationale for Proposal 17: Various authorities have disputed whether our Bylaws require conventions to be in-person; thedebate affected the party’s options for completing convention business in the context of theCOVID-19 pandemic. This proposal would explicitly empower a supermajority of the LNC toauthorize online or remote participation in specified extraordinary circumstances.

Minority Report on Proposal 17 by Mr. Bishop-Henchman and Mr. Rutherford:While we agree that our Bylaws should be fixed to authorize online or remote participation in certain circumstances, we believe the current proposal is both too limiting (allowing it to be used only in narrow circumstances) and not limiting enough (allowing it be invoked byaction of the LNC only). Instead, we propose that the section should read as follows:The National Committee may by a two-thirds vote authorize an online location and/or remote participation at a Regular Convention, if ratified by at least 26 state chairs within thirty days.

Passes remotely and on the floor.

No more bylaws considerations unless suspension of the rules.

Starr is reminded not to abuse points of information to engage in debate.

Bylaws 11 passed 9-1 on bylaws committee

Rationale for Proposal 11: Executive session is when a meeting is conducted in secret. This proposal would adapt the LNC’s current policy on executive session, elevate it to the bylaws, and apply it to other LNC-created committees. It would also take the reasons which the LNC Policy Manual currently allows for executive session called by a majority (instead of two-thirds for anything else) and make those the only permissible reasons. In practice, the LNC only ever uses those reasons anyway, but this would close a loophole for potential abuse and strengthen the requirements for transparency and accountability. It would also require other committees to adopt the LNC’s good practice of rising from executive session before taking votes or other actions

As promised:

13 doesn’t address a lot of issues, like California getting its own JC member, what to do for non-region affiliates like Idaho and Mississippi, what happens if a region dissolves, and can a region recall a JC member?

13-A doesn’t cover cases of only 1-4 JC members elected, which leaves no quorum to meet to backfill.

Rationale for Proposal 18: We have repeatedly failed to elect a full number of LNC at-large representatives and most recently have failed to validly elect anyone on the judicial committee. Those failures have been the result of three things: (1) a large field of candidates, many of whom with little to no support; (2) approval voting, where large numbers of delegates have engaged in strategic voting for their favorite candidates; and (3) significant floor time spent on trying to get a vote to permit another round of voting. Other proposals do address (somewhat) the large field, but it is still likely that there will be a field of 15-20 (as opposed to 40-50) candidates for LNC and JC with that proposal, approval voting has its draw backs of strategic voting, and it does not address the issues with approval voting, and, most significantly, a lack of a procedure to automatically move to additional rounds of voting without a need to suspend the rules. This proposal streamlines our voting procedures, dropping off LNC officer, at-large, and JC candidates who do not have appreciable support (5% or more) after the first round, along with a narrowing of the field to twice the number of vacancies that remain after the first round. Real favorites versus merely acceptable candidates will emerge from this process of moving away from approval voting, resulting in an election that is more representative of the desires of the body, and a third round is automatically called for. In short, this makes it far more likely we will elect a full, or almost full, slate of LNC at-large and JC members.

Minority Report on Proposal 18 by Mr. Bishop-Henchman and Ms. Crawford:The problems we have had with approval voting are likely due to large fields of candidates, with many candidates entering the race casually with little forethought or support, serving to make voting decisions more difficult. Another proposal, Proposal 4, addresses this problemby requiring more delegates supporting a nomination before a candidate is accepted as a nominee. That proposal, instead of this one, should be adopted and given a chance to give us better results.

Merced: If it passes Goldstein motion on schedule which passed earlier will need to be amended to have JC elections.

13 fails. Moving to 13A:

The existing rule allows Judicial Committee vacancies to be filled by the remaining members of the Judicial Committee. If, however, all Judicial Committee positions are vacant, there are no remaining members to fill the vacancies. Under our parliamentary authority, the principles of interpretation applied to such a situation say that since the rule specifies a particular appointment process, it precludes any other process such as an intervening convention filling the vacancies. This addition will allow a convention to act when all positions are vacant for whatever reason.

Goldman motion to fix adjournment at 5 pm today and 1 pm tomorrow eastern
start of business 9 am eastern tomorrow
Begin LNC elections 10:15 eastern today
Limit platform debate to 4 hours

Passed both in person and online.

Question: when will the vote on chair, vice-chair, and other officers?

339 physically present, quorum is 320.

801 delegates and 202 alternates are credentialed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVkBo9nJCqQ

Resa Willis
shared a link.
Rising Star
· 1 hr
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
Ever thought of how much difference it would make to politics if some celebs came out hard for the principles you believe in – but in a way designed to attract the Americans who don’t already know they agree with you?
A bunch of NFL players, Miss. World, and other notables sick of politics-as-usual have been secretly preparing a project to change the trajectory, tone and results of American politics. They’re about to launch. They want us. Find me while I’m in Orlando and I’ll tell you more.

Desarae Lindsey
shared a link.
49 mins
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – unofficial
Please join us for a meetup with Vermin Supreme and some of the masterminds behind #TeamSupreme at 8:00 PM EDT! (Or really, whenever Laura Ebke
‘s Happy Hour is over.) ?
Hope to see you fine folks this evening!
—–?—————————————————————————
Join Zoom Meeting
https://zoom.us/j/548249398
One tap mobile
+16699006833,,548249398# US (San Jose)
+19292056099,,548249398# US
Dial by your location
+1 669 900 6833 US (San Jose)
+1 929 205 6099 US
Meeting ID: 548 249 398
Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/abInQyrjfj

I zoned out, but I think that nothing else has been voted on, and we adjourned. Bylaws will continue at 9 am eastern tomorrow. Someone correct that if I got it wrong.

Rationale for Proposal 13-A: The existing rule allows Judicial Committee vacancies to be filled by the remaining members of the Judicial Committee. If, however, all Judicial Committee positions are vacant, there are no remaining members to fill the vacancies. Under our parliamentary authority, the principles of interpretation applied to such a situation say that since the rule specifies a particular appointment process, it precludes any other process such as an intervening convention filling the vacancies. This addition will allow a convention to act when all positions are vacant for whatever reason

Sarwark motion fails, so we may still be doing bylaws tomorrow morning (and afternoon?)….Sexton moved to consider Bylaws 13 out of order (suspension of rules).

Sarwark point of order on the question of time Seebeck and I discussed above.

Tara DeSisto announcement. Says we’re all special.

Starchild moves to suspend the rules to take up the consideration of a new Section 15 to Article 7: National Committee
Members of LNC including alternates shall not simultaneously serve on bylaws, platform or credentials committees.

Bylaws and Platform: The Libertarian Exercise Program.

Goldstein, extension of time (I think by one hour) passed both in person and online.

And a vote on extending today’s session or the bylaws part.

Erin Adams, another fundraising reminder.

Torch club reception will be in signature room 2 at 8 pm tonight.

buyalexmercedabeer.com will get him cranberry juice, as he does not drink alcohol.

There is no 4 hour limit, AFAIK. Nothing except adjournment sine die at 1PM Sunday is time certain on the agenda. Nor is that in the Convention Rules.

I don’t know off hand which of you is correct, but if it’s you, how do we make the determination of when to move on from bylaws to the next item on the agenda? We got through 4 proposals and there are 14 more in the report, plus additional ones that could be made from the floor. There’s still LNC elections, platform, possibly resolutions, possibly a suspension of the rules and if it passes JC elections….

I think Alex said 4 passed after the standing count? Sound was not very good. 10 min break.

Starchild using N95 masks as elbow pads…

Sam Goldstein

· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
Please note that there is a four hour time limit on the Bylaws Committee Report and that clock started running at 3;00 PM EDT.

Of course, time could be extended.

Dividing the question was a good idea, because 7.1 was straightforward and doesn’t matter when it applies (President/VP), and 8.3 would apply now and it was requested by the Bylaws Committee to add a proviso to make it apply later., meaning not the 2020 LNC Elections.

Bylaws 4 fails.

Division failed.

Proposal 4,

“Rationale for Proposal 4: Because it is the Secretary rather than the Chair who receives and counts nomination tokens, the first change aligns the rule with existing practice.In 2018 there were 35 candidates nominated for the 5 at-large LNC positions. It was evident that a number of these were nominations made on-the-fly by persons not actually intending for the candidate to be elected. The large number of candidates took extra floor time for nomination speeches as well as making the ballot tabulation take longer, despite the dwindling time left to complete elections.Verifying eligibility status in advance of the election allows the candidate to correct the deficiency before this problem occurs. In recent years, even when delegates have requested that the eligibility of nominees be verified, we have presumed it without pausing to verify it. We have even had instances where individuals were elected to the LNC were ineligible and could not be seated. This creates a vacancy that is then filled by appointment by the LNC or by the regional chairs in the case of a regional representative. Many times delegates have nominated persons not even present, only to then scramble to try to contact the person and verify that they are willing to accept the nomination. Providing evidence of the required level ofmembership would be as simple as visiting the registration desk to obtain a verification from staff attesting to their membership status.Running for our presidential ticket or for the LNC are important enough that candidates should be willing to spend a few minutes of intentional preparation for it, and this proposal establishes very low requirements for a person to demonstrate eligibility, willingness to serve, and the support of more than just a single nominator, all of which could be accomplished with one sheet of paper per candidate.”

I’m incorrect, see link for details.

“The existing language already requires a 2/3 vote for additional planks or additions to planks.In attempting to describe other types of platform amendments besides deletion of an entire plank, does not cover the full range of possibilities. What vote is required if one wishes to delete a word/sentence from a plank? It’s not deletion of a plank. It’s not an additional plank. It’s not an addition to a plank. With the existing language, one could argue that to remove text from a plank (even deletion of the word “not”) only requires a majority vote. We believe the intended rule is that all amendments besides deletion of an entire plank should require the consistent standard of a 2/3 vote. This proposal would implement that intention”

Proposal 2 passed overwhelmingly.

https://lnc2020.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/37/2020/07/2020-Report-of-the-Bylaws-and-Rules-Committee-FINAL.pdf

Proposal 3 is next.

Bylaws proposal 2 being voted on.

I think they are applauding that we got that far, finally.

Microphone 2 requires additional wipes.

Starr requested to do this without objection. There were online objections.

My motion failed, but the intent was to help the tellers take care of that. Starr pointed out the moving target, but the reason it’s a moving target is that certain delegates like him don’t shut up.

Does not have 2/3.

Motion to move officers before platform, I think.

Back in session

Lunch. Back at 2pm EDT

in an attempt to game the system to keep Josh Smith from getting elected to either Chair or LNC,

Not exactly. If he wants to stay at large he could still do that. If he wins he would be at large. If he loses he could still run for chair. What it is designed to keep him from doing is running for at large as a consolation prize after losing for chair. Of course, if he wins chair the point would be moot.

I’m not sure this would work though. I know of no rule that would prevent someone already elected at large, if we were to vote on that first, from running for chair. If elected chair they would then resign their at large spot and the LNC would vote on the at large vacancy.

OK, people, here’s the morning to now at 1134AM. It was pouring rain this morning, duck-drowning in spots.

I had to direct traffic to reset the stage from last night. We now have 2 podiums which makes it run smoother on the stage. We should have been doing that on the first place.

The Credentials report did include the online delegates and they have been “seated”. So that ends THAT issue.

Voting is being a problem as using Zoom for online and floor votes as well.

Motions to suspend rules to consider some Bylaws early have failed overwhelmingly.

Sarwark is 0 for 2 on points of order. Merced is not putting up with Nick’s crap.

Treasurer report done. Audit report done after some Zoom problems with Ms. Fox were resolved.

Currently Jo is speaking in person, Spike just did, and when we reconvene, we’re sitting on a motion by Perry to suspend the rules to take up moving the LNC At-Large elections ahead of the officers, in an attempt to game the system to keep Josh Smith from getting elected to either Chair or LNC, according to the word on the floor.

Still to come, assuming the same schedule: Bylaws, then LNC Elections, then Platform. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an attempt to move elections up, which may not be a bad idea, all things considered.

Jorgensen speech is up next.

He’s up on the youtube screen. From comments in youtube other people can’t hear him either. People in the hall are applauding so I guess they can. Sound fixed, now I can.

Alex Flores brought up to mic to make announcement about povertarian pizza banquet.

Jeff Hewitt, CA. Not in the hall.

Schulz brings up local elected officials starting with Jim Turney (not in the hall). Shawn Levasseur of Maine.

Harlos says there are new tellers and given that there are bylaws amendments on method of voting on at large and there may be delays if at large goes first.

Heisse moves for a 15 min recess to resolve zoom link issues.

Merced rules that this is a point of information and passed with a majority.

Sarwark and Jason Smith from NV challenge chair’s ruling and say it is a suspension of the rules and needs 2/3.

Requires 2/3 for a suspension of the rules.

Fails, along with a backup motion which was basically to the same effect.

Keith Thompson

· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
For those being allowed to remotely participate, it would be appropriate to help cover the cost and frustration by purchasing an online sponsorship.

https://my.lp.org/2020-lnc-registration/

got zoom to work

paul frankel < 1 minute ago @dan Got the new email for today but it has meeting ID from yesterday and that does not work . Youtube starts in half an hour but other people are making comments which indicate it is already going on?

CAH to LNC list:

I need the file sent to me asap please – and I need the zoom recording. It
was impossible to hear accurately up here.

Please let me vent a second. There has been ZERO proactive communication
with the Convention Secretary. This is unacceptable. I am learning what
the bleep is going on the same way everyone else does (i.e. emails sent to
me as any other regular delegate), and I should not have to say this is not
the way things should run. The rest of my input I will give off list but I
want it publicly noted my utter objection to how this is being
coordinated. Delegates here are noticing the confusion, and they don’t
know why. Staff cannot unilaterally make these decisions. Can we please
do a reset on this and make sure both the CoC, the Convention Chair and the
Convention Secretary are informed. Staff is NOT elected. We are. I am
super appreciative of the competence and proactiveness of our staff and
that all of this is done with the best of intentions

According to what I am told the problem with the youtube video from yesterday’s convention (and the one from the pre-LNC meeting?) is that they played copyrighted bumper music and youtube took it down.

Welp, now both down.

Merced is moderating this one.

7 min

Wenke goes last….

All candidates answering same questions round ended. Now candidates asking questions of each other.

Luke Wenke intro

Josh Smith intro.

The posting record is in sight.

Achievement unlocked.

Candidates introduced
2 min intros
1 min responses
2 cards per candidates for 30 sec rebuttals
Mix of in person podia and zoom in candidates

About 3 min to start time.

What will tomorrow bring? A lot of arguing over the abortion plank for starters.

This day has me feeling I have been hit by a car and run over. Those online are not delegates, those online are delegates, state Chairs can decide those online in their state cannot be delegates, what will tomorrow bring?

Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Officially Unofficial
POVERTARIAN PIZZA PARTY
At “Radstock 2020”, the LP Radical Caucus suite, room 1956 in the Rosen Center.
Pizza should be here around 7:30 or so, but we also have chips, drinks, crackers, beer, and spirits.
7:00 pm until ??
We have snacks and drinks, some bourbon and vodka made in Colorado, Abita beer, and probably additional food and drink options by opening time.
We even have LPRC literature for you to peruse. Come on up and rest / relax / recharge.
Questions? Call 804-592-6066, ask for Marc.

https://www.facebook.com/events/4143054082434150

povertarian pizza banquet Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 8 PM – 11 PM EDT

Omar Recuero, Vice Chair of the LP of Florida

No breaks, plenty more to do 🙂

Enjoy the Break Paulie,

Can’t wait for the LiveBlog of LNC Debate!

If it’s as riveting as this was….

Reports are posted at https://lnc2020.com

Sounded like Proposal 1 passed overwhelmingly on voice vote.

Recuero orders a standing count, then agrees clearly over 2/3.

JBH motion passes.

Move to adjourn fails.

Where was the vote on the division?

Recuero says they are moving to a vote on moving consideration of the agenda.

Recuero rules it is in order.

JBH declines chance to change from adopting to considering Bylaws Proposal 1.

John Phillips move to divide.

There was objection to consideration. That was defeated by voice vote.

JBH motion would have the effect of allowing each state to decide which in person and not in person delegates are recognized. Adopted 9-0 by bylaws committee.

Clarifies it does not specify which software.

In person delegates adopt credentials report which excludes everyone else.

My Goodness… This is… Interesting.

In since 10, and still technically No Delegates (Except possibly LNC Members and State Chairs physically present, as they represent the Party by their office if there are “SuperDelegates” in the LP.

7 Hours of this. Fun!

Ruth Bennett:

The Chair can choose anyone he/she wants to chair the meeting.

Claim (Fishman? Or who?) 5 states will disaffiliate if remote delegates are not recognized (I think).

Rufus Craig claims the in person delegates are overwhelmingly in favor of allowing remote participation.

but in order to do that we need proper numbers of the in-person delegates.

Can’t be done. Not everyone is on the floor at all times. Some people are there, but out in the hall, their rooms, the quarter mile walkway from the hotel to the convention center, etc.

Alex says he “can’t” count this poll so passes gavel to Recuero.

OK, I think I can explain most of this (except Mr. Craig’s pending point of order).

The state-by-state roll call of delegates on the floor is being done to have a proper quorum in order to properly credential EVERYONE online, but in order to do that we need proper numbers of the in-person delegates. That was what Mr. Moellman moved to do, and I think why.

However, first, there will be a ruling of Mr. Craig’s point of order that online delegates were not allowed to vote to overturn the ruling from the Chair regarding Mr. Moellman’s motion. That’s going to appealed either way, and once we HOPEFULLY get that sorted out, MAYBE we can get actual voting numbers in order to actually vote to seat the online delegates–which is where we’ve been trying to get to all day in the first place…

Frankly, all this wheel-spinning today has been a waste of time. Had the in-person numbers been taken in the first place, then moved to seat the online delegates, it would have passed, and this would have been resolved at 10AM. Instead, it got derailed by this, that, and the whatnot.

The only good thing about this is that we have templates and the first rounds of tally sheets ready for balloting, if we ever get there.

Spike addresses the body. Says he is contractually obligated to keep his shirt on.

Seth Ryan Levy
4 mins
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
I am saddened to see all the dishonest dealing in Orlando.
I decided not to go in favor of assisting the presidential campaign thinking that we could trust the COC to faithfully execute the will of the LNC. I had Orlando flights and off site lodging lined up until Tuesday when we were repeatedly assured all would be taken care of.
Apparently I was wrong and there needed to be more people on the ground to help defend the rights of delegates participating remotely.

Ken Moellman motion to conduct roll call vote to see who is physically present. Alex was unable to hear points of order from online.

Online poll that ruling of the chair that roll call is improper was 74% sustained, but was not counted.

Ruling is overturned.

I’ve been able to vote once. Not any other times. No idea if it counted that one time.

Next motion, sustain ruling of the chair that a roll call vote to see who is there in person is out of order.

Another poll, to adjourn to 9 am
I did not get the poll.

Geoffrey Neale
1 min
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Officially Unofficial
I’m here in Orlando. We just voted on a motion to recess. It was a combination of voice vote and online vote. I wonder how many in person delegates voted by voice AND online? Yes, if we all use porcupine to vote, it would be best, but many folks who showed up do not have the equipment to do so. Adequate notice given? Not I’m my opinion. Power available? No. OMG! Considering a motion to adjourn to cyberspace.

I was able to cast my first vote 🙂

Alex rules online delegates can vote on the challenge to our credentials. Ruling challenged.

McArdle speaks to her motion. Says people are threatening to sue the party.

Estimate of 300 physically posted by another in person delegate. Some of those are alternates though. If those numbers don’t grow this may be fewer than the infamous Portland 2006 convention.

Victoria Reynolds
badge icon
They haven’t credentialed most of my delegation that is there in person or online yet

Posted earlier, but it’s been a while:

https://lnc2020.com/convention/

http://knappster.blogspot.com/2020/07/brief-platform-committee-national.html

Joe Buchman
Rising Star
· 3 hrs
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
Did the convention zoom meeting really begin with,
“It’s blood!!!! There’s blood on the floor; I’m standing here to prevent anyone from stepping in it!”
How perfect….

Carol Moore
17 mins
· Shared with Members of LP 2020 Delegates – Officially Unofficial
Attn: Organizers. Bitdefender thinks porcupine.live is a suspicious web page Daniel Fishman

Motion to recess for lunch and to resolve credentials. Passed by majority. Reconvene at 2pm EDT.

Majority in person voted to recess til after lunch. Fishman claimed there’s a poll in the app as well and was also in favor of recess.

Remote participation is not yet enabled. Voice vote to go back into recess until lunch, onsite delegates will only be able to vote in this one.

Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
2 hrs
· Shared with Public
Hello Libertarian Party delegates!
As the Libertarian National Convention kicks off this morning, we wanted to take a brief moment to remind you of our endorsements for the LNC elections, as decided by you at our successful online caucus convention back in May. We had initially endorsed Jared Hall to be one of our five At-Large endorsements, but he decided after that point to instead pursue the Region 3 Representative position due to a vacancy opening up.
In his place, we are happy to report we’ve endorsed our chair, Sen. Laura Ebke of Nebraska, who has thrown her hat into the ring as a candidate for At-Large! As we get ready for the opening gavel, we are thrilled about the incredible group of dedicated, effective, hard-working Libertarians from all over the country that we are supporting for LNC:
– Joe Bishop-Henchman for Chair
– Richard Longstreth for Vice Chair
– Evan McMahon for Secretary
– Tim Hagan for Treasurer
– Victoria Paige Sexton for At-Large
– Bill Redpath for At-Large
– Laura Ebke for At-Large
– Erik Raudsep for At-Large
– Valerie Sarwark for At-Large
While this isn’t the convention we were all expecting at the beginning of the year, we’re dedicated to making this hybrid convention a success. And of course, we are glad the LNC finally heeded your call to let all delegates have the option to participate remotely this year in all convention business. By making your voices heard to the incumbent LNC members, you helped make a real difference and ensured that hundreds of delegates’ voices will be heard this weekend.
With your help, we can have a huge impact on the Libertarian Party for the next two years and beyond, and build a political party that elects principled Libertarians to public office and provides them with the tools, resources, knowledge, and support to WIN! That’s the Libertarian Party we hope to build together, and it’s a vision and priority shared by all nine of our wonderful endorsements for the Libertarian National Committee.

It’s not decided yet. Hopefully it will be after reconvening.

Sarwark was trying to bully Merced a couple of minutes ago. Bad form.

We rearranged the stage because the echoing is awful up here.

Would love to see the 189 list one day… (Or more if more Physically attend)

Also, What Vendors and Non-Delegated speakers attended live. And other than the Exec. Director/Management staff showed… Will be interesting… there was a map earlier I think, wonder how many came once rescheduled, and with Florida… at this time.

189 In Person? Financials next month should be Interesting too…

Thanks for having this…

If other people have strong preferences on new thread or this one keep commenting though if you have not opinionated on that already. I can’t really determine consensus from 2-3 people.

Zoom is going also but supposedly the new system will be better for speaker and motion queue and voting. I did not have a problem with the electionbuddy voting. I have not to make or address motions in either sitting so can’t speak to that. I do not know what number they are using to calculate quorum. Probably it will be based off the current credentials report, but I could be wrong.

So, Decredential Remote Delegates?

Leaving them with… 186?

No Quorum right?

Heck, is 494 a Quorum?

Seem to remember a word… Cluster…

Condolences to Porcupine Guy, But why not Zoom?

One hour recess for credentials committee to sort things out on their end before motions are discussed and entertained on that further.

Scott Lieberman moves to rescind the online session nomination of candidates. Angela McArdle moves to amend to decredential remote delegates.

Brian Ellison posted in LP 2020 Delegates – Uncensored, Unmoderated
July 9 at 9:16 AM

494 credentialed delegates. 186 onsite, 308 online.

The porcupine app author had to cancel attendance last minute due to death in the family, but he’s helping remotely. Shit happens.

It looks as if Paulie was right. There should have been test run(s) before going live. With the divisions in the LNC and COC that would have been tough.

At 9AM EST 7/9, already 30 min behind due to tech issues. Working on them.

Spread is pretty large here, but plenty of space, too. About 1/3 to half full by rough estimates.

Humid as hell here, even inside with the Air Conditioning. Welcome to Florida, I guess.

Joe Bishop-Henchman
Admin
· 4 hrs

Wifi for Orange County Convention Center
Network: Libertarian2020
Password: convention2020
This applies only at the OCCC and not the Rosen Centre.

At least one person on credentials says I’m a full delegate. So we’ll see.

Convention youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GozFb10Tat8

Starts tomorrow at 9 am eastern time

Consider running for At Large?

No, I am not running for LNC this year or any other year.

Also, can you forward my idea?

They’re getting slammed with inquiries and requests as it is. I haven’t even been able to get anyone to tell me if I am an alternate or a delegate. I think someone said on LNC list that the app says who is onsite and who isn’t.

5. LNC Elections Thread
paulie 1,034 comments Published 2012/05/06 is the thread on the convention you are referring to, similar to this one.

If anyone is interested it is at https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/05/lnc-elections-thread/

The Chair running for reelection did the classy move by declining a nomination for chair after he was defeated by non of the above.

The Chair was Mark Hinkle.

Also, it would be Interesting to know What vendors actually showed up, What speakers actually showed.. Etc.

It will be interesting to know how many from the Corona Virus hot spot states e.g., New York, New Jersey, Louisiana, Michigan. Washington who are supposed to be quarantined (14 days) show up?

I propose we keep this thread for the convention occurring this week. After all this meeting we are having is a continuation of the convention we had in May. Correct? What is the record for the number of posts made in a specific thread? Are we close or have we passed the record in this thread? I was at the chaotic convention in Las Vegas that received a record number of posts in which non of the above won in the first rounds of the chair’s race. After non of the above won, the election for Chair had to be reopened. The Chair running for reelection did the classy move by declining a nomination for chair after he was defeated by non of the above.

About to go to second sitting soon. Anyone have preference on whether I should use this thread for liveblog/discussion or start a new one?

I’m good. The app is porcupine.live and there is training going on today and tomorrow via zoom. I posted the zoom info a couple of comments up. Thank you for the offer.

Got the reply.

Dear Paul

We are inviting you to Delegate Training. We will be running an ONGOING training today from 4pm Eastern till midnight and tomorrow from 4pm Eastern till 11pm. Please log in whenever you have 15 minutes to learn the system and set up you account. At the top of every hour we will start the training again anew.

First we need you to log into a zoom meeting, and from there you will get the details on how to log in to the Porcupine Website.

Join Zoom Meeting (this link good for Tuesday and Wednesday)

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88320437066?pwd=eGZ5TVJVR045cDJ4SVZFb2ZrYnJMUT09

The topics that will be covered are

Logging in
Agenda page
Microphone queue
Profile page
Voting page

at :30 mins of every hour we’ll show other features

Please log in at ANY time between 4pm and midnight (Eastern) today or between 4pm and 11pm tomorrow

Executive Director is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Topic: PreConvention Training

Time: Jul 7, 2020 04:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Every day, 2 occurrence(s)

Jul 7, 2020 04:00 PM

Jul 8, 2020 04:00 PM

Join Zoom Meeting (this link good for Tuesday and Wednesday)

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88320437066?pwd=eGZ5TVJVR045cDJ4SVZFb2ZrYnJMUT09

I’m going to raise a stink about this app issue today. I can’t believe other people are not already doing so.

I was at a meeting where TJ talked about the software. T J has mentioned the program has been beta tested many, many times so it does work. He says the source code will be released after the convention for legal reasons. It has something having to do with the fine print relating to open source software.

I agree that we should have done a couple of test runs. We tested the software yesterday at the Los Angeles County convention and some had to vote via paper. I suspect we will have to get out the kinks at the convention.

I also think to test it ourselves would have been difficult because of the conflicts in the LNC. Remember what happened when we tested Zoom? Conflict, fighting, and frustration was the order of the day.,

I’ve asked about public availability of the porcupine convention app again. Will keep this thread posted as to whether or when I hear back. Surprised I don’t see more people asking about it. If anyone knows something I don’t, please fill us in.

Sam Goldstein
19 mins

Convention Update – Final!

The LNC met tonight and overwhelmingly voted to approve a new and very favorable contract to move the convention to the Rosen Centre (site of the 2016 convention) and the Orange County Convention Center. Dates are the same with pre-convention meeting and training workshops on Tuesday, July 7th and the convention from July 9th -12th.

The LNC also voted to allow simultaneous remote participation using the new Porcupine Project web app which integrates virtually every aspect of being on the convention floor for those not on site. It will also be used for various on site functions as speaking que maintenance and perhaps voting.

The new contract drops the room rate to $89 plus government theft (which I think is 13.5% at this property). Each delegate will also get a welcome gift from the hotel.

We will have internet access in the convention hall but access to power will be limited. Please bring backup batteries or power supplies as a lot of convention business will require the use of a connected device.

This has been a long ordeal for the Convention Oversight Committee, the LNC and delegates. For those of you who will participate from remote locations I wish you the best and hope to see you in person at Reno 2022. For those of you going to Orlando, please wear masks everywhere you are required to and also in the convention hall and breakout sessions. The COC strongly encourages all attendees to be mindful of others and to take personal responsibility for the safety of all delegates.

Live free,

Sam Goldstein

14-1-1 if I heard that correctly.

Redpath and JBH move to have online only.

14-0-2 on Amendment

Ruling of the chair is sustained 13-1-1

“We asked for the moon and they gave it to us”

We asked for the moon and they mooned us.

The youtube will be available as a recording after the meeting, if I’m not mistaken.

Thomas Knapp?The password for the Zoom meeting is TheMoon

Which would make as much sense to plan a convention as for next week as the Orlando Convention Center.

https://www.facebook.com/events/2427657294199571/2427668774198423/?notif_t=plan_mall_activity&notif_id=1593817794244276

Facebook watch party

Thomas Knapp?The password for the Zoom meeting is TheMoon

Started now at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzh9xbPO60s

In Shingle Creek free lunch for alligators is you.

#TANSTAorlandoFL2020

LP MethGator caucus

(Astute observers also noted that the first sitting adjournment motion actually said Shingle Creek, the 17 mile long swamp and headwaters of the Everglades, not the Rosen Shingle Creek, a hotel which is currently not open for business).

About 60% of the delegates in yesterday’s poll voted for cancellation and an online-only second sitting. There is currently NO contract with the convention center where the business of the meeting is supposed to take place, 5 days from day 0. A number of states are issuing 14 day quarantine orders for anyone returning from Florida. Republicans are about to cancel their second plan for a large multiday in person convention, also in Florida, as well.

http://ballot-access.org/2020/07/02/republican-party-may-cancel-second-half-of-national-convention/

About 300 people in the poll still said they want to go to Orlando next week but some of those only want to do so reluctantly to ensure remote participation is allowed and/or because they are worried about who will be elected if they don’t go.

Libertarian Party is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Topic: LNC Meeting
Time: Jul 3, 2020 09:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/85913403964

Meeting ID: 859 1340 3964
One tap mobile
+16699009128,,85913403964# US (San Jose)
+12532158782,,85913403964# US (Tacoma)

Dial by your location
+1 669 900 9128 US (San Jose)
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+1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago)
Meeting ID: 859 1340 3964
Find your local number: https://us02web.zoom.us/u/kb3MMvYiw2

No. Caucuses are not officially recognized by the party, government or anyone else except themselves. . Some are fairly well organized. Some are joke facebook pages that people throw up to make fun of something and move on. There are many stages in between and they ebb and flow in activity level over time. It would be a full time job to try to keep track if all the hundreds or thousands of things which claim to be l.p. Caucuses of some sort.

Wearing a mask isn’t practicing medicine without a license. Telling him he has to wear one, according to him, is. I guess the same would hold true for, say, condoms or clean needles. Someone might say with equal plausibility that government mandates that they use protection if they have VD, or not share dirty needles if they have infectious diseases, are “practicing medicine without a license.” But even then it would not be the person using condoms or insisting on clean needles who would be doing so, but the one trying to tell Mike’s equivalent in those circumstances that they must use condoms and must not share needles.

I did not see Seebeck saying individuals should be arrested for choosing to wear masks. He said he believes he has legal papers to challenge any orders by government or private entities that would require him to wear one to enter or remain on their premises. Personally I would think private entities should be well within their rights to control their property. Some people have medical problems with wearing shoes but businesses are generally allowed to have a no shoes, no shirt, no service policy. Some people may experience acute claustrophobia (or equivalent) from having to wear any clothes at all. And so on.

The LP has only to get on the ballot in all 50 states (any status on that?) and get a 1 minute honorable mention on Meet the Press (or the likes) after getting excluded from the debates. I’m sending money to Jo’s campaign on a re-occuring basis. So glad I’m not slogging sigs on the streets in NY this cycle.

dL
June 20, 2020 at 02:15
which constitutes practicing medicine without a license in violation of state laws.

lol…Seebeck now supports state licensure laws and apparently would approve of the police going around arresting people wearing n-95 masks on the pretext of practicing medicine without a license. You put the proggies to shame.

Nowhere did I say that I support government permission slips.

What I did was acknowledge that they exist and as such are a tool to use to advance individual freedom against government and private sector nonsense. It is perfectly libertarian to use the force of the state to defend our rights and freedoms from aggressors.

Last time I checked, the revocable and limited privileges of both the private sector and the public sector are inferior to the in-a-lien-able rights of the individuals. My right to my health overrides their stupid placebo mandates.

The reality is that politically we have to play the game as it is, not how we think it should be, and if that means gaming the game to our benefit, if it means using government against the private sector for our individual benefit, or vice versa, then so be it. And I’m not the only one who thinks that way, either.

If you want to put your health at risk by wearing a face diaper, then you do you, boo boo. Me, since I know that the porosity of a mask vs. this cold virus is the same as a toll booth to a gnat, and since I prefer full oxygen, especially here at altitude, I won’t, unless absolutely necessary and under limited circumstances, only where it benefits me personally, and then under explicit duress.

My life and health are not subject to any curtailment due to anyone else’s ignorance and fear. Period.

[email protected]
Meanwhile my delegation has informed me that I will be ranked behind any alternates who show up in Orlando even if remote participation is allowed.

10:54 PM (33 minutes ago)

to Whitney, Erin, alex.merced
Anyone know whether there is a way to appeal this above the state level?

Meanwhile my delegation has informed me that I will be ranked behind any alternates who show up in Orlando even if remote participation is allowed.

https://lnc2020.com/convention/schedule/

I see Jo believes individuals have the right to possess any and all weapons the government does.

Oh boy…

pf: Not sure how that’s relevant but OK.

me: NAP “purism,” while POLITICALLY voluntaryist, has a totalitarianism feel to it. The sniping your describe on the LNC and the Jorgenson/Cohen campaign among a very narrow band of the LM is either amusing or sad, depending on one’s perspective.

Found you on your state party website. You can email me if you don’t want to link it to your screen name.

Yuppers! State Senate.

I AM a down ballot. We shall see.

“What they should be sorry for is that they are not taking nearly the advantage they could have of Spike and the Vermin team.” – paulie

I doubt that it really matters too much this election cycle. The alternative parties collectively will probably poll 1 to 2%. It’s a shame but with COVID-19 and the paranoia of the” wasted vote syndrome” this is NOT looking to be a very good year for alternative nominees/candidates. Perhaps going with a full out bozo as the LP nominee would have been better.

To paraphrase Elvis Costello:
Two little NAP “purists” will fight it out until
One little NAP “purist” does the other one’s will 😉

What they should be sorry for is that they are not taking nearly the advantage they could have of Spike and the Vermin team.

On a positive note, I guess, Jorgensen’s new campaign logo is magnitudes better than the old one.

My guess is that some campaign contributors complained and threatened to withhold contributions.

Reportedly had their best actual fundraising day that day.

Spike still has it on his timeline, however. I guess they can’t fire him.

Yep. And it’s going to get shared again from there. That’s legit.

Thu, Jun 25, 6:26 PM (6 hours ago)

to Joeh, jess4liberty

Sorry for wasting everyone’s time. I was not asking for money and wouldn’t have accepted any, but after reading about what happened to Daniel Smoldt today I think I jumped the gun.

There is now a motion being voted on to have an emergency contingency meeting authorization. My brain is too frazzled to follow the details with all these flurry of email motions at this point. Anyone have a better grasp of this one?

One of the appeals of the ruling of the chair passed. I think it was about his ruling that the motion saying he could not remove Daniel Hayes from the convention committee was out of order but I’ll have to check back in the thread, it may have been about the authority over convention contracts.

Um, With the numbers Florida is having, And the fact they are “limiting” some numbers…

You may want to check out a Press release the DNC just put out.

Taking care of their delegates and folks…

Depends on which Libertarians. I expect pretty high rates of both compliance and non-compliance.

As I indicated above,the subject has been broached. As of now they are still planning to go ahead but contingency plans are being discussed.

Copy of the COC meeting for the executive director is now a mail ballot. The convention is currently scheduled in 16 days.

Something about an investigation into an alleged policy manual violation at the latest convention committee meeting leading to the executive director asking for a recording and being denied.

Paulie,

Re: your newest CAH Post…

Why not beat the rush and Force Majeure cancel it now?

And, Any word on how much the Party is on the hook?

That of course is because of the Great decision that they decided to not continue the Zoom in June and Finish up the convention that was the Safe Convention?

Though “Many People” were expecting that when this first wave part 2 (the first wave never ended, so this is still the first wave) it may not be the best idea to hold a physical convention in a spreader state with so many employees at the key airport everyone flies into for this, and who knows what else.

On the Plus side, Masks are now a requirement in all of Orange County, so that may help a tad…

But I remember the story of the Horse and the Barn…

CAH to LNC:

With it being that only a vote of the LNC can cancel the Orlando convention
and the developing situation in Florida, we need to be able to do this in
under 5 days. Is there interest in a temporary policy manual provision for
emergency meetings relating to the Orlando convention ONLY to be able to
meet with 24 hour notice.

We need to get ahead of any need for this. It looks to me like there is a
50/50- chance that Orlando may have government issues.

In other related news, the LNC is apparently going to try to have a special meeting this Saturday. Again. Or maybe not. This is a different special meeting than the last one.

Another weekend, another meeting being cancelled.

Well, You have a chance to be SOMEWHAT Safer!

At least you picked a County with what can be considered in the vicinity of leadership in Florida.

They left a lot out… WAY too much… They need to “Revisit” some of their exclusions. You can ram a truck through them, much less a nanoparticle…

But they covered going to a hotel, and convention areas….

Pack your facemasks everyone…

IF… (If being a VERY important word… you want to go to an in-person convention during a Pandemic.

As of Midnight tonight, Masks are required “in incorporated and unincorporated Orange County” By Emergency Executive Order of the County Mayor as Executive of Emergency Management

And Orlando is in the news today, along with Florida, and Texas.

This should be… interesting.

Any thoughts? Any word on Force Majeure, or hotel cancellations for high risk folks? Or anyone?

Very Interesting.

Well, at least it isn’t Jacksonville…

Sam Goldstein
Admin · 1 min

Convention Update

As of today all major hurdles have been overcome with the signing of the AV contract with the COC’s preferred vendor, so we are good to go for Orlando 2020!

Rooms at the convention hotel continue to book at a rapid rate and we are now at over 67% of our room commitment. Please note that the room reservation deadline is July 3rd to assure that you are able to book at the rate of $109/night plus 12.5% theft.

As noted elsewhere, the COC has picked The Porcupine Project headed up by LNC Region 4 Alternate Tim Ferreira as the mechanism to provide remote participation and voting services if permitted by the delegates. This app is very flexible and there will be training resources available soon.

Looking forward to seeing everyone at Orlando in just a few weeks.

Sam Goldstein

Convention Oversight Committee

pf: Civility in politics is going out the window on all sides.

me: Right, so those who want to Keep the LP Weird should ADOPT civility, yes?

Paulie… to quote a famous movie line from “Raiders of the Lost Ark”… “Shoot zem. Shoot zem all!”

There are many kinds of independent voters with different styles and ideas which appeal to them. My long term theory is that the more moderate to conservative and generally older ones, while they may be disappointed with democrats and republicans, are when it comes down to it still going to vote for them, or if they do switch to the l.p. Will offer tepid support and or drift back. I think on the other hand we under estimate our potential with the younger, more left leaning vote which may find political satire to be refreshing rather than offensive. We haven’t done as well as we should with these folks because we don’t do much to grab their attention to start with and when we do all too often we come off as boring and irrelevant, outdated and it far right bigots and haters.

Civility in politics is going out the window on all sides. Trump has none, and neither do many in congress and governors who align with him. Increasing numbers of democratic and independent progressives sympathize with radical protests and even violent tactics. However, I still strive to practice it, so my apologies for some of the tone yesterday. My inability to simply stop responding when I think people are beating a dead horse is my fault, not anyone else’s, and does not excuse me snapping back in response. I usually manage to do better but not always.

Whenever I speak to the “average” voter, the consideration of third party is limited to a small percentage of people. On an anecdotal level, its online with the political science of about 5 percent, at best. To say that tweaking the platform or encouraging mainstream-like candidates can help, is a marginal notion, at best.

To date, I see only one article about Jo in the Washington Examiner, via Google News. This is aside from the initial convention bump. I did donate to the Jorgensen campaign, happy in the knowledge I won’t be slugging out signatures upstate this summer. Unfortunately, the campaign seems to just keep sending pleas for more (understandable).

With some imagination and political acumen an LP candidacy ought to be taking advantage of the situation on on the ground. It’s not hard for me to imagine that Jo isn’t a street fighter, based on her academic background, not any flaw based on ideological make-up or lack of media savvy. The Rubin Report? Joe Rogan? Hell, even Fox News could have been a possibility during the lock-downs. BLM is more problematic.

If Vermin Supreme were the nominee, he would likely have more media traction than a Clemson academic or the issue-crat Hornberger. Perhaps. It seems like on off-year (incumbent POTUS) election year won’t be particularly successful for an internal party nominee.

All that being said, I was impressed at how well the the LP pulled off the online convention in such an odd year. Mind you, I only saw a smattering and don’t follow the back-room skull drudgery anymore. But, regardless of the “Lessarchy Movement” being squelched by an ardent Leninista junta (lol, lol, lol), I’ll always support the non-binary vote habit. Know a Progressive sympathetic to Biden? Convince them that Hawkins is a better anti-war / environment voice after you calm their nerves about their particular Electoral College dilemma/reservation. Most times it doesn’t work.

Of course, the demise of IPR will not be because dl or anthony whoever cries louder. No, it will be based on the conflict of interest that the Redlich 2024 campaign will create.

pf,

Actually, the point is that Ls tend to be blinded by rigid individualism. Candidates like Commey, McAfee, Supreme, and Cohen (probably in that order) HURT the cause of liberty and lessarchism. It may not be fair, but that’s how the optics work.

If the goal is Leninist cadre-building, perhaps these outer-fringe figures might appeal to disillusioned youth that haven’t joined Antifa. If OTOH the goal is to present a serious alternative to the Rs and Ds, outer-fringe figures are not the way to go.

Yes, there are embarrassment Rs and Ds — Roy Moore comes to mind. But at least these sorts of wackos often get internal pushback and I do believe their wackos get less financial support compared with their more mainstream candidates.

pf,

The LP seems to believe that Commey is a good candidate to be Mayor of the largest city in the US. Thankfully, since the LP nominated a nobody, Commey will (hopefully) remain obscure and under the radar, except perhaps in the media capital of the US itself.

The Founders spent their 20-something brain power in installing NAP “purist” depth charges, but not to filter out such awful (on its face) candidates. Why the current leadership has not disowned the hijacking mental patient suggests a serious lack of judgment. Your target of alienated youth (which was once the Evers view) is probably not attracted to the party of hijacking mental patients, because virtually no one is.

pf,

More appealing to hijackers? Mental patients? Fugitives?

Is it possible that L switchers leave when they see themselves surrounded by wackos who are held in high regard in the LP?

paulie: “Embarrassing candidates appears to be a universal phenomenon afflicting all parties of any size or ideology.”

True, but other parties aren’t struggling (as much) to be taken seriously. If Libertarians were branded as a humorless party of stuffed shirts, then they could afford to lighten up. But if anecdotal evidence is any indication, then a lot more people, potentially reachable people, dismiss the LP as a party of self-indulgent clowns and naive college kids, so cultivating a more professional public image should be a priority.

PF,

The magnitude of embarrassment is the point. Hijackers, mental patients, boot hat wearing, etc. establishes a much more pronounced embarrassment factor.

You REALLY don’t see that?