Paul Frankel: Why Libertarians need to denounce the Alt Right and white nationalists and don’t need to worry about libertarian socialists and antifa

That’s probably where he got the story. WW Jr is actually a comedian (see wiki).

Drugs are awesome! I don’t take them anymore

I hope you are taking the ones you were prescribed.

This is like my favorite IPR video of all time, next to Sony Releases Stupid F*cking piece of sh*t that doesn’t even work. I dedicate this video to IPR Andy:

‘9/11 Conspiracy Theories Ridiculous’ – Al Qaeda

An Al Qaeda representative says that claims the U.S. government was behind the attacks on Sept. 11th are demeaning to Al Qaeda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_OIXfkXEj0

To hell with JW.org.

IPR IS THE BEST website on the Internet.

I’m a big salt fan, says the guy who does Onion Now in his series – Jim Haggerty Porking across America. Well I think IPR is like salt mixed a dab of reasearch chemical 25i and LSD along with some great bong hits, an indigo blunt, and one hitter. God, I loved smoking out of one hitters the best.

Drugs are awesome! I don’t take them anymore because I’m a paleoconservative Jehovah Witness/KJV Baptist fushionist – In fact, I don’t even smoke squares anymore and I completely abstain from alchohol. This is the kind of twisted Masonic brainwashing that Jehovah Witness girls subject you too. Sad!

I really want to watch Onion videos right now! The Onion- America’s ONLY NEWS SOURCE! Everything else is FAKE AS HELL!

Don is not like a broken clock, because those are at least right twice a day. But he is quite predictable. As with Las Vegas, the rumors that the Texas shooter had links to antifa appear to be just that.

https://www.snopes.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/

Reports that the perpetrator carried an Antifa flag and told churchgoers “this is a communist revolution” are fake news.

As of this writing little is known about Devin Kelley or his motivation for attacking a church, but neither police nor any reputable news organization has offered a desire “to start a civil war by targeting white conservative churches” as a motive for the shooting, nor reported that Kelley carried an Antifa flag and told churchgoers that he was participating in “a communist revolution”:

Preliminary news reports suggested instead that law enforcement had few clues to explain why Kelley went on a shooting rampage or targeted the church in Sutherland Springs:

Few clues were initially made public on a possible motive or what made Kelley target a church in tiny Sutherland Springs. His in-laws had attended the church at some point, said Joe D. Tackitt, Jr., the Wilson County sheriff. They were not present Sunday and only came to the scene later after hearing the news he said.

“There must have been some reason he came here, but we don’t know,” Tackitt said.

And

Antifa United declared that the purported image of Devin Kelley’s Facebook page, which includes an Antifa flag, was likewise a fabrication

Apparently, the person who runs their account noticed that they actually used a picture of him holding up an antifa flag.

As the Antifa page says “Myth: Busted. Good Night Alt-Right.”

Speaking of broken clocks, there’s Andy:

Where is the condemnation of this?

Video description from YouTube: “At least eight people were killed when a speeding Home Depot truck plowed down riders on a Lower Manhattan bike path in a terrorist attack.

Um…how about everywhere?

Is Will Coley going to be criticized for converting to Islam, and for associating with Muslims?

Not necessarily the stupidest thing ever said at IPR but it’s certainly up there.

I’m not saying that he should be criticized. He seems like a good, well meaning guy, as far as I can tell (I have no evidence to indicate otherwise), and if he wants to preach the libertarian message to Muslims, I say good luck to him.

Whew. Thanks for clearing that up.

I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy here.

Where?

George Soros funded communist agitator group known as Antifa.

You’re acting like you can’t just scroll up and find disproof of this nonsense in great detail directly above.

If you two ever turn out to be right about one of these shootings it will be a case of boy who cried wolf.

Paulie,

I commend you for your anti-Nazi crusade. To hell with Nazis! We should put all Nazis in a BDSM cage and have themselves be tortured to death. I’m reading Henryk Pajak’s Niemieckie Ludobojstwo Na Polskim Narodzie (German Genocide Against the Polish Nation) and I’m absolutely appalled at the horrific and genocidal crimes of Dr. Mengele, Eichmann, Goebells, Goering, W. Keitel, H. Frank, E Kaltenbrunner, A. Seyss Inquart, Rudolf Hoess etc et el. To hell with these people. Fuck these evil, sadistic torturing, evil creatures. Jesus Christ, I can’t believe how barbaric and evil these people are. I can see why Michael Savage and Alex Jones hate Nazis so much.

I saw actual picture of gas chambers in the concentration camps in the books. I saw dead piles of people. I saw how they brutally performed genetic tests, eugenics and forced sterlizition on young Jewish, Polish, etc children. Jesus effing Christ.

I am an IDIOT for denying the Holocaust previously. Jesus effing Christ ( I will say however that according to this book the original Auschwtiz death total started at 6 million people murdered, then was reduced to 4 million, then to 2.5 million, and now the book says most historians confirm an Auschwitz death figure of 1.2 million). Can anyone confirm this?

Let me just say this. F*ck Nazis. I hope they get f*cked so hard they die. NAZIS ARE EVIL TWISTED SCUM! Let’s put all Nazis in BDSM cages on a remote island somewhere and see what happens. It can be played on Pay per view like Macweather vs MaGregor, and the good people of the world and watch Nazi scum torture themselves to death. Or f*ck themselves all to death, as President Garrison would say. Jagoffs?

Where is the condemnation of this?

Video description from YouTube: “At least eight people were killed when a speeding Home Depot truck plowed down riders on a Lower Manhattan bike path in a terrorist attack.

Eyewitnesses told police the driver yelled “Allahu Akbar!” — Arabic for “God is great!” — after running down helpless riders from behind, their mangled bodies left scattered behind his runaway rental truck.”

DISTURBING FOOTAGE: MUSLIM TERRORIST MOWES DOWN PEDESTRIANS IN NEW YORK CITY TERROR ATTACK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nzkB0Sp3cs

=====================================================================================

Is Will Coley going to be criticized for converting to Islam, and for associating with Muslims?

I’m not saying that he should be criticized. He seems like a good, well meaning guy, as far as I can tell (I have no evidence to indicate otherwise), and if he wants to preach the libertarian message to Muslims, I say good luck to him.

I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy here.

I think the more recent developments in Florida reconfirm this article’s thesis. These fascists masquerading as libertarians are an existential threat to the party and movement and need to be shown the door pronto, along with their “paleo” kissing kousins.

Matt,

My dad’s name is Leszek Lesiak. He lives near Olsztyn, Poland. peace out.

THAT last COMMENT was NOT mine. Max Dickstein must be light years ahead of me and he must have wrote the above statement. In fact, I’m 100% it was Dickstein and I’m prepared to use legal action against him because I come from the Tupac “Killuminati Philosophy Bible School.”

Heil Mark Zuckerberg!

Signed, the REAL Krzysztof Lesiak.

PS: Or wait, that could have been Cody Quirk. It was 100% either Quirk or Dickstein, I’m sure of it.

“For some reason, this entire thread reminds me of the 2001 cult classic DUDE WHERE”S MY CAR? as well as Mikey Moore’s DUDE WHERE”S MY COUNTRY? and the other one STUPID WHITE MEN.”

I heard of the first two but not that lost one. Is it some interracial cuckold porn that you watched or is that some video about the supposed coming race war the alt reich like to circle jerk to … oh wait, I think that’s the same movie?

Notice how I get attacked by trolls here more than anyone else? This is because I come closer to the truth, and am more effective, than anyone else who posts here, and this makes me a threat, hence the attacks from anonymous trolls.

Andy Jacobs is a certifiable nutcase. Take his Sandy Hook nonsense for example. The only Sandy Hook video I really want to see is one of Andy with parents who lost their children in the massacre at Sandy Hook lecturing him about the issue. Of course the laughable line that he is “just asking questions” also fails to achieve liftoff; he is clearly making an affirmative case that no children died and the school had been closed for years, which is just plain nuts.

The better question to ask is why is Andy even allowed to post comments here…much less articles? He comes across as an escaped mental patient. Clearly he belongs in a straitjacket in a padded room somewhere; possibly daily injections of psychiatric medicine or electroshock therapy might help him. Until he is removed from IPR the site will be a total joke. He is worse than all the trolls that got kicked out of here added together. As I recall he was the first person that Trent Hill talked about banning when he first took over IPR or even before that, and it was Andy who inspired the creation of the first IPR quarantined thread (which he did not honor). In all seriousness he should have been kicked out back then and has only grown worse and worse over the years. Serious question, what kind of moron does Paulie have to be to have promoted him to be allowed to post articles and why has that not been rescinded yet?

Of course Andy is posting recurring nonsense. That’s what he does. He can barely even be blamed for it as he is deep in the grasp of mental illness. However, those who allow him to continue to smear his excrement here in public do deserve blame. Paulie gave him the ability to post articles here and continues to allow him to post articles and comment, so should himself also be kicked out or demoted, along with Andy.

The inmates have clearly taken over the asylum here. Very sad. This site used to be much better than this but now resembles a riot at a secure facility for the criminally insane. Paulie should be demoted and Andy should be kicked off completely if you want to restore any semblance of sanity around here.

paulie – “Sounds like something his ancestors in Germany in the 1930s would say, as is pretty typical of things he says. Disgusting.”

Very perceptive. Another article I’ve blogged on the violent anti-fascist movement makes the same point explicitly:

“”We know now that many Germans supported the fascists because they were terrified of leftist violence in the streets. Germans opened their morning newspapers and saw reports of clashes like the one in Wedding. It looked like a bloody tide of civil war was rising in their cities. Voters and opposition politicians alike came to believe the government needed special police powers to stop violent leftists. Dictatorship grew attractive. The fact that the Nazis themselves were fomenting the violence didn’t seem to matter.”
“How anti-fascist violence enables fascism”
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.ca/2017/08/how-anti-fascist-violence-enables.html

Looks like Hoppe’s following a dated playbook.

Hans Hermann Hoppe: The police must be unleashed to crush anti-fascists and beat them into submission.
https://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.ca/2017/10/hoppe-libertarians-must-crush-anti.html

Iron-Clad Proof of Vegas Crime Scene Cover-up They

Of course. Here’s ironclad proof why people don’t take your videos seriously that you don’t want to see:

Interesting.

Iron-Clad Proof of Vegas Crime Scene Cover-up They WON’T Want You to See!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd3VC7iNa-w

“wolfefan
October 12, 2017 at 10:20
Just as an FYI, Antifa did not need a permit in Charlottesville. That’s just another neo-Nazi sympathizer lie.”

What an idiotic comment. First of all, I’m not a neo-Nazi sympathizer, and second of all, I’m not the one saying that people need to get permits to engage in mass demonstrations, the law says this, and I have talked to ACLU attorneys who have also said this. Since the ACLU has said that there are permit requirements for mass demonstrations, are the ACLU also neo-Nazi sympathizers?

Let’s examine the facts.

Unite the Right had three rallies in Charlottesville.

Unite the Right obtained permits to hold these rallies, and they went to court and successfully defended them.

There were no problems at the first Unite the Right rally.

There were problems at the second Unite the Right rally, which is the one where Antifa showed up.

Antifa did not have a mass demonstration permit (and once again, even the ACLU says that there are permit requirements for mass demonstrations).

The police did not follow proper police procedure at the 2nd Unite the Right rally, as they did not keep Anfifa separated from Unite the Right, and it has in fact come out that the police were ordered to stand down by the Mayor’s office, and predictably, as the two groups came in contact, there was violence, and that violence was not just started by Unite the Right as if you watch videos of the event, Antifa can clearly be seen initiating violence.

Unite the Right had a third rally in Charlottesville, where Antifa did not show up, and there were no problems.

So the pattern should be pretty clear. When there were Unite the Right rallies without Antifa showing up, there were no problems. When there was a Unite the Right rally and Antifa showed up, there was a problem.

Antifa groups have been pulling this kind of crap all over the country. They did it at that Milo speech in Berkley. They did it during the Trump inauguration. Etc…

It should be blatantly obvious to all that the situation in Charlottesville in August was manipulated in order to create chaos so they could hype it up in the media and use it to push a political agenda.

PAULIE: “Really? Seriously? You are linking videos directly from the fascists now? In case anyone is wondering I checked the IP and this is the real Andy posting this horseshit, not an impostor. ”

JOHN: It’s very, very sad that you had to look at IPs to determine that. I’m hoping that Andy turns back from his accelerating descent into complete insanity, but not very optimistic.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/aug/17/donald-trump/donald-trump-wrong-charlottesville-counter-protest/

“The Washington Post Fact Checker published a document in an earlier fact-check showing that counter-protesters had indeed acquired an official permit for Saturday, when the Unite the Right march was scheduled.

https://www.scribd.com/document/356483336/2017-Public-Demonstration-Unity-and-Love-Free-Speech-August-12-2017Certificate-of-Approval#from_embed

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/08/16/president-trumps-false-claim-that-counter-demonstrators-lacked-a-permit/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_factchecker-permit-745pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.5e64eedd9a62

The permit was issued to Walt Heinecke, an associate professor of educational research, statistics and evaluation at the University of Virginia’s Curry School of Education. The “special events certificate of approval” for a public demonstration at two parks in Charlottesville, McGuffey Park and Justice Park. Those are located within one and two blocks, respectively, of Emancipation Park, the location of a Robert E. Lee statue and the destination for the Unite the Right march. The certificate covers Saturday, Aug. 12, from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m.”

…

“In addition, Dickler of the city of Charlottesville said that counter-protesters would have been permitted even outside of the two park locations specified in the permit. “A permit does not bar other individuals from entry to a public park (such as Emancipation Park), nor does it restrict who can be on streets or sidewalks outside of and/or adjacent to the park.

For the record, the city of Charlottesville had sought to have the Unite the Right march hold their demonstration in McIntire Park, which is away from downtown. But a court ruled that the march be held at Emancipation Park instead. So the Unite the Right march effectively had judicial permission to hold it there, rather than a city permit.”

…

“First, no permit was required for any protest on the University of Virginia campus, either from the university (which has jurisdiction on the campus) or the city (which does not).

“The University does not require permits to use public spaces,” said University of Virginia spokesman Anthony P. de Bruyn. “Existing university policy speaks only to the ability to access university-owned facilities such as academic buildings and performance venues.”

He added that “the University of Virginia is a public institution, and as such must abide by state and federal law regarding the general public’s right to access outdoor spaces. This includes open spaces such as … our historic Lawn.”

So if Trump meant to refer to the Friday night protest, then he’s wrong here, too. Neither side had permits because there were none to give.”

ANDY: There were no problems at all this time. Why? Because Antifa did not show up.

PAULIE: LOL, so everything is fine as long as only one side gets to speak. Gotcha.

JOHN: The original nazis were fine with free speech too…as long as nobody disagreed with them. It’s a little known fact. Almost every nazi rally in Germany went off without a hitch, except for the ones where the antifa showed up. After Hitler became Chancellor the antifa stopped showing up at nazi rallies and they were all completely peaceful exercises of free speech from that point forward. Problem solved! Right, Andy?

ANDY: “Heather Heyer Died of Massive Heart Attack”

JOHN: Yeah, the video where she was hit with a car was fake. Or maybe being hit with a car was just a coincidence, so the Fash guys are really not all that bad after all. And it’s not like they have ever killed anyone else.

ANDY: Charlottesville Protest – “You Will Not Replace Us!” – Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch, Eli Mosley

PAULIE: That’s “Jews” not “You” – didn’t you hear these assholes at their rally? Did someone sanitize it for the title of the video? WTF?

JOHN: You will not replace us…yous will not replace us…Jews will not replace us. And it’s not like this is the first time Andy has referred unironically to the so-called “replacement agenda” so it all fits.

Here’s hoping Andy is not the next “false flag” shooter. I wonder if Andy will be featured at one of the upcoming Unite the Right rallies, maybe taking Christopher Cantwell’s spot since Chris has a schedule conflict?

tfli: Andy’s orthodoxy

me: Is this an oxymoron?! 😉

Andy@ 2:20 pm The first two paragraphs are correct. As for the rest:

I already addressed this silly talking point. Repeating it does not make it more true. Having opposition show up at an already permitted event does not and never has required a separate permit, and the UtR permit was revoked because it had become clear that their intentions in the face of opposition planning to show up were not peaceful. Unite the Reich was 100% the source of the problems.

Also, it should shame you that Chris Lesiak, a supporter of the so-called Constitution and American Freedom Parties, agrees with you more than any Libertarian here.

Chris, I have already warned you about posting in all-caps. If you make a habit of it your comments will start to be removed.

Robert, I did not voice an opinion on whether or not I think that mass demonstrations require a permit, my point was that the law currently differentiates between singles speakers and small groups, which do not require permits, and large groups holding mass demonstrations. I have heard this from multiple ACLU attorneys.

I generally do not like the idea of getting permits for engaging in any constitutionally enumerated rights, but when dealing with large groups that can take up a public venue (in this case, a park), and block traffic, and when there are serious threats of violence from counter protesters, I can see the rationale behind it.

So given that current law requires permits for mass demonstrations, Unite the Right had such a permit, and Antifa did not.

Unite the Right had three rallies in Charlottesville, yet the only one that had problems was the one where Antifa showed up.

This does not mean that everyone involved with Unite the Right is a wonderful person, it just means that Unite the Right had the right to speak, and was not the source of the problems.

Paulie – the autism spectrum.

I have my suspicions.

My question about the spectrum was 100 percent genuine.

I wasn’t questioning your genuineness, I was asking which spectrum you meant. The left-right spectrum? The autism spectrum? Some other spectrum?

Are permits for planned protests and marches truly an infringement on free speech.

Permits are just way to make sure that the city can plan for things like re-routing traffic and having a police presence to maintain order around a demonstration. Once one side has such a permit there is absolutely no reason to say that their opposition needs a separate one to show up to demonstrate against them. Most people have long understood this, apparently up until now.

Charlottesville Protest – “You Will Not Replace Us!” – Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch, Eli Mosley

That’s “Jews” not “You” – didn’t you hear these assholes at their rally? Did someone sanitize it for the title of the video? WTF?

Antifa is a communist agitator group

We’ve been over this. This is false. Antifa is not a “group” it’s a coalition of many different groups and individuals who only have one thing in common which is to confront fascists. Some of that confrontation is violent and some is not defensive, and some antifa are ok with that whereas others are not. Some of it is just free speech in opposition. Some of us are libertarians, while some antifascists are communists, but certainly not all.

funded by globalists like George Soros.

Repeating a debunked talking point does not make it true. Scroll up for lots and lots of details on this. Only a very small portion of the funding of some antifa groups comes indirectly from Soros through intermediaries, quite possibly without even his knowledge, and none of the groups he has even indirectly donated to have initiated violence or even condoned specific acts of initiation of force – they just had their events crashed by people who did.

If you have any evidence other than what was already discussed above what is it?

Unite the Right obtained a permit to hold a mass demonstration Antifa had no permit

A very, very stupid talking point. Neither one should have had to had a permit but Unite the Reich’s was revoked and the right to counterprotest an existing permitted protest does not not now, never did and never should require a separate permit.

Do you register on the spectrum?

Which spectrum is that? LOL

Heather Heyer Died of Massive Heart Attack

Bullshit. And no I am not watching your youtube video.

Hmm, this could set an IPR record? What’s the current IPR thread comment record, the 2014 LP convention with over 1,000 comments? IIRC my repost of the CP vs LP article by a former LNC staffer had over 600 comments. This is a heck of a lot.

By the way, in the Polish paleolibertarian magazine, Najwyzszy Czas! (It’s High Time!), founded in 1990 by Polish paleolibertarian God Emperor Janusz Korwin Mikke, a Polish libertarian talks about meeting Nicholas Sarwark at a convention in Puerto Rico, and that Sarwark has Polish roots.

Sarwark is going to get a major challenge from Max Dickstein though – Max has financial capital and connections, so the current LNC chair shouldn’t take “LordDickus” lightly. I do expect Sarwark to have the substantial advantage but hey, Dickstein is going to be his main competitor (at least I hope so).

PS: I wish I had the financial capital to travel to the Constitution Party’s national committee meeting on October 27th, -28th, 2017 in Pittsburgh. Like I did at age 16, I once again now, at age 21, support the Constitution Party fervently.

https://www.constitutionparty.com/national-event/

“Fall 2017 National Committee Meeting
Register Now For This Great Event In Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania! Details Here…

KEYNOTE SPEAKER: Vernon Robinson

“The domestic enemies of the Republic now constitute the greatest threat to the Republic, possibly the greatest threat in its history. I believe that the Constitution Party has never had a greater opportunity to tap into the GOP betrayal of the country.”

Mr. Robinson is a former United States Air Force Captain, conservative political activist, former candidate for U.S. Congress, and a former City Council member of Winston-Salem, North Carolina. During the 2016 Republican presidential nomination process, Robinson was the campaign director of the National Draft Ben Carson for President Committee.”

DoubleTree Pittsburgh International Airport: 8402 University Boulevard, Moon Township, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Phone: 1-412-329-1400; mention that you are with the “Constitution Party”

Dates: Friday October 27th and Saturday October 28th

Check this out. Unite the Right was back in Charlottesville, VA, this past weekend, and they did march and rally in the park where the Robert E. Lee statue (which is now covered up by a black tarp), and guess what? There were no problems at all this time. Why? Because Antifa did not show up.

So let’s analyze this. Unite the Right had a rally there last spring. Antifa did not show up, and there were no problems. Unite the Right had a rally there in August, Antifa showed up, and police failed to do their job by keeping Antifa separated from Unite the Right (it has come out as a verified fact that the police were ordered to stand down, so it was actually intentional to create the situation that led to conflict), and all hell broke loose. Unite the Right comes back for another rally this past weekend in October, Antifa did not show up, and there were no problems.

Unite the Right obtained a permit to hold a mass demonstration (single speakers and small groups do not require permits, but large groups holding a mass demonstration does require a permit), which they ended up having to defend in court, which they did successfully. Antifa had no permit, so therefore, they should not have even been there at all in August, because they did not obtain the mass demonstration permit.

The content of the speech from the various people who came together in the coalition called Unite the Right is irrelevant to the concept of free speech. Free speech is just that, free speech. The coalition known as Unite the Right had the right to speak, even if some people did not like their speech. It was the job of the police to shield the Unite the Right protesters from any counter-protesters (and note that since the counter-protesters did not have the mass demonstration permit, they should not even have been there), and the police failed to do their job. The police could have easily ensured that no violence took place if they had simply followed proper police procedures for handling these type of events, and the police may have actually done this, if they had not been ordered to stand down. It should be blatantly obvious to all that this was a set up.

Here is video from the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville from this past weekend. Notice how there are no problems. That’s because Antifa was not there.

Antifa is a communist agitator group that is funded by globalists like George Soros. They are like modern day Bolsheviks,

Charlottesville Protest – “You Will Not Replace Us!” – Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch, Eli Mosley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_QGCe3otws&t=608s

Heather Heyer Died of Massive Heart Attack – Graphic content

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKEoeB5-j1w

DJ,

Care to elaborate?

dj: Ah, so now you throw in a caveat; reasonable for you. But, initially that wasn’t what you said.

me: Sure. It’s called elaboration. I hope you’re OK with it.

dj: Using consensus reminds me of Nancy Pelosi claiming the will of the people entitles democrats to mandate. It certainly does not. Not in a country whose founding principles, recognized as law (rules) to help ensure those principles remained in tact, and in the hands of the citizens, not mandated by some immoral idiot who believes themselves and their colleagues omnipotent.

me: Interesting perspective, since I disagree with Nancy Pelosi’s views on just about everything. She’s clearly not omnipotent, nor should she be.

Sadly, we don’t have Madison here to clarify what he meant, but then again if we did, I’d like to hear more about why he thought slavery was a good idea.

But thanks for the feedback.

robert capozzi
October 10, 2017 at 13:04

dj: Speaking of subjective^^^^^^ Who’s to determine reasonable? You? A black robed idiot? A bureaucrat? A cop? A politician?
………….

me: Great point. At the most elemental level, everything is subjective. We can compare notes about our individual perceptions, but we at the end are arbiters of our own perceptions, interpretations, and values.

So, yes, I determine what is reasonable for me, and you do so for you. It’s unavoidable. We seek to find general consensus, and we intuitively have a sense of what is plausible and what isn’t — knowing that
sometimes our sense of the possible is miscalculated.
………………..
Ah, so now you throw in a caveat; reasonable for you. But, initially that wasn’t what you said.
………………..

For instance, there’s probably a general consensus that nuclear weapons are inherently dangerous, and only the most extreme NAPster and perhaps some non-NAPster anarchists would support governmental action to ban private ownership. There’s probably also a general consensus about banning private ownership of machine guns for the same reasons. While they are not AS lethal as nukes, most seem to be OK with banning them for private use.
…………….

There you go again. Banning is forcing beliefs. All conflict is caused by one forcing his will on another. To make it legal doesn’t make it moral. I have a right, that makes it moral to choose for myself, not be told what I can have according to a consensus which is a collective. Our Founders created a gov’t, then penned rules to help ensure the collective didn’t oppress or suppress the individual’s right to choose. Remember, rules are to control. The fed gov’t isn’t entitled to control “We the people” and it wasn’t granted in the constitution (rules for gov’t made law).
As for Nukes, I don’t think anyone should have them, especially gov’t’s, but, if a gov’t can have them then certainly citizens have the right to.

Using consensus reminds me of Nancy Pelosi claiming the will of the people entitles democrats to mandate. It certainly does not. Not in a country whose founding principles, recognized as law (rules) to help ensure those principles remained in tact, and in the hands of the citizens, not mandated by some immoral idiot who believes themselves and their colleagues omnipotent.

Is it perfect? No. But, there are means to change it, legally, which doesn’t make it moral since changing the 2nd amendment (or any of the Bill of Rights) is taking away choice, which is basic to freedom.

Disneyland is not analogous because it exists in a larger context. It is not its own country. If Disneyland security started killing people or making them “disappear” into dungeons in some arbitrary way they would get outside authorities in there pretty quickly. Australia may not be tyrannical right now but they have created a precondition which history shows often leads to tyranny. Just because they have not become tyrannical in a short period of time is not a good reason to take the same foolish risk.

Robert Capozzi at comment 666 in this thread (unfortunately comment numbers are no longer displayed):

Yes, I will stipulate that privately armed nations tend to have lower tyranny levels than places where private ownership is banned. I note that correlation is not necessarily “proof.”

It’s not just a correlation; arms in private hands scare off would-be tyrants just like they scare off would be muggers, mostly without being discharged. The fact that they are, or even could be reasonably expected to be there gives the bad guys pause. We can also see the additional evidence that quite a few tyrants actually took the proactive step of disarming citizens before slaughtering large numbers. I think they did this for a reason as cases of armed resistance elsewhere show.

right to keep and bear arms on one’s property

Well, I wouldn’t want to be attacked by muggers once I leave private property, nor be in effect jailed on my own hypothetical piece of property by tyrannical government agents who would be reassured that I am unarmed whenever I go anywhere else.

I frame the question differently: Are there weapons that are so inherently dangerous that keeping them should be banned?

I’m not seeing any short term likelihood that non-individually targetable weapons will be made legal and it’s beside the point of the reason why the Second Amendment exists anyway.

dj: Speaking of subjective^^^^^^ Who’s to determine reasonable? You? A black robed idiot? A bureaucrat? A cop? A politician?

me: Great point. At the most elemental level, everything is subjective. We can compare notes about our individual perceptions, but we at the end are arbiters of our own perceptions, interpretations, and values.

So, yes, I determine what is reasonable for me, and you do so for you. It’s unavoidable. We seek to find general consensus, and we intuitively have a sense of what is plausible and what isn’t — knowing that sometimes our sense of the possible is miscalculated.

For instance, there’s probably a general consensus that nuclear weapons are inherently dangerous, and only the most extreme NAPster and perhaps some non-NAPster anarchists would support governmental action to ban private ownership. There’s probably also a general consensus about banning private ownership of machine guns for the same reasons. While they are not AS lethal as nukes, most seem to be OK with banning them for private use.

I have found the last couple of posts interesting. I’ll leave it at that 🙂

Secondarily, determining what an “equivalent” is is so subjective as to be grandiose in the extreme. Who is to say? The government? Thomas Knapp? Paulie Frankel?
…………..
Just as I DO support the right to keep and bear reasonable weapons
……………

Speaking of subjective^^^^^^

Who’s to determine reasonable? You? A black robed idiot? A bureaucrat? A cop? A politician?

pf: The military then had cannons and other weapons that were not considered necessary to organize a militia.

me: Personally, I’m largely unconcerned what considerations were in 1789. Apparently, most thought slavery was aOK, too. Such flawed conclusions lead me to be skeptical of the prevalent thinking in 1789.

That’s not to say that I disagree with all their opinions, for they did offer future generations some pretty cool ideas. They did, however, have the humility to allow their handiwork to be amended and reversed in a few ways. Personally, I think they set the bar too high for amending the Constitution, however.

pf,

As a L, I find that ancient law APPALLING, don’t you?

I would think that NAPsters would agree with me that the government has NO PLACE REQUIRING the possession of ANYTHING.

I don’t care to own any weapons, and I would object if the government required me or my fellow citizens to possessing weapons. Just as I DO support the right to keep and bear reasonable weapons of self-defense on one’s own property and whether allowable in that jurisdiction.

For starters!

I would be shocked if you and TK don’t agree with me on this. If you DO advocate forced possession, perhaps I have completely misunderstood NAPsterism. I may have to go back to Square One!!!!!

Secondarily, determining what an “equivalent” is is so subjective as to be grandiose in the extreme. Who is to say? The government? Thomas Knapp? Paulie Frankel?

Really?!!! 😉

Per Knapp on a prior thread:

Under the Militia Act of (IIRC) 1789, every able-bodied adult white male was required by law to keep, and to maintain in working order, a state of the art assault weapon of the time (either a rifle or musket), as well as 40 rounds of ammo and the powder to shoot it.

The equivalent today would be requiring every able-bodied adult American (since we’ve done away with legal discrimination on the basis of race and sex) to keep an M4A1 and two loaded magazines.

pf,

Thanks for clarifying. That’s a quaint and somewhat coherent standard, as I see it, that on examination is open to wide interpretation. There would have to be a VERY precise definition of what a “militia” is for it to stand the test of time.

Here’s the truth, as I see it: IF the standard is “whatever today’s military possesses, private citizens have the right to possess that, too,” that certainly implies private machine guns, bazookas, and tanks are 2A rights. Since some militaries have WMD, those would be private rights as well, yes?

btw, I note that I reserve the right to disagree with the Supremes. While I’ve not studied their opinions in some time, I do recall that many of their opinions did not make sense to me.

You?

I suspect you find some of their decisions nonsensical as well.

I am no expert on tanks, but I do believe that taking the position that there’s a 2A right to keep and bear tanks is political suicide. If the output of a thought system is that there IS a right to tanks and that right should be staunchly defended, I would submit that there is something wrong with the thought system.

Hence my campaign here to re-evaluate NAPsterism.

pf: So what it says is that the government does not have any such power to regulate the type of weapon that would be needed to have a militia, regardless of whether a militia was organized at that moment or not.

me: No power to regulate types of weapons, is that right? Ah oh. You know where THAT goes!

Are you saying the Supremes ruled the right to keep and bear private nukes?

For me, my practice is to assess issues in this order:

Does this make sense in the abstract?
Does this make sense in the current context?
What does the plain language of the Constitution say about this, if anything?
What does the case law and Supreme opinions say about this, if anything?
Is there a consensus on this matter in the general public?

ATC, the answers are weighed and judgment is applied. In the case of private nukes, it’s a pretty easy one: yep, regulate the hell out of them. Zero tolerance, in fact.

Are machine guns inherently dangerous? Not a slam dunk like nukes. I lean toward banning them, too. I certainly would spend 0 time reversing the ban.

Bump stocks? I’d probably vote for banning them, even if the ban is not 100% enforceable. That’s true of pretty much all laws, anyway. Laws, after all, are signals first and foremost of what is unacceptable behavior.

Are semi-automatic weapons inherently dangerous? Probably not.

Entirely incorrect. The ideas was not to concentrate all power in the hands of a standing army, but to retain it in the hands of the people with militias.

Regardless of what the “idea” was, there is now and always will be, some sort of standing army (despite the defense budget being a bloated disgrace . . . we agree on that one) . . .

Therefore, the conclusion in Miller gives the government rather broad power to regulate “arms” that do not have a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia”

Since we now have a standing army and no need for any Militia, this case makes my case exactly. A regular citizen, not part of any militia does not have an unlimited right to military-type weapons.

Entirely incorrect. The ideas was not to concentrate all power in the hands of a standing army, but to retain it in the hands of the people with militias. And the case said the type of weapon that is needed by a Militia is what is protected by the Second Amendment, not that it is only protected if it’s in the context of membership in an organized militia. There was an unorganized militia at the time of the Second Amendment which was basically the whole adult male non-slave population at that time.

The 9 wearers of black robes has the final say as to what is and is not constitution, regardless of what you or I thinks.

Them standing the constitution on its head does not make it walk on its ears.

#sad! That’s really all that needs to be said on that one . . . .

The only thing that’s sad is that you disagree.

OK.. . let me be more specific for the delusional and paranoid . . . . Citizens in the United States are not going to overthrow a “tyrannical” United States government by “bearing their arms.” Never. It’s not going to happen. It’s sad that this even has to be said.

As with crime, the role of guns here is mostly to prevent it rather than to stop it in a shootout. Tyrants don’t necessarily have to be overthrown per se, they just have to take enough casualties to make people less eager to go into situations where they may get killed for them. As long as there are enough guns in civilian hands to make the practical exercise of tyranny costly to the tyrants in terms of lives lost they are a lot less likely to engage in it. That’s exactly why would be tyrants disarm their civilians first.

It’s also why the Japanese decided against invading the mainland US west coast during WW2 after a feasibility study that too many Americans had guns. Certainly the Japanese Army had bigger weapons than American civilians, but they did not want to take so many casualties in the process. Even in Russia, the Nazis were defeated by guerrillas more than by the Red Army. There are many examples of this. It’s a misunderstanding of military tactics to imagine civilians going straight head to head with a modern military on a field of battle. In that case of course you would be right, but that’s not how it happens. As I mentioned, guerrillas have the advantage of blending into the landscape, carrying out surprise attacks and having no clear tactical command centers or operational structure (especially with modern improvements in communication technology). That’s why ragtag guerrilla forces are able to hold their own against modern military forces including the US all over the world, time after time, often forcing those militaries to retreat.

For example take US occupations/invasions of Lebanon and Somalia. The US left those areas after US forces took losses, not because the guerrillas in those places had the troop levels or sophisticated weapons that the US had but why do you think that happened?

Paulie when you talk like this you sound like Andy.

When Andy is right, he’s right. Same as with you.

OK. . .. when you can’t own TWO, then it’s infringed

Nope, any numerical infringement is by definition a type of infringement.

The Supreme Court has held that the right to “bear arms” is not unlimited. No. Constitutional right is unlimited.

What they actually ruled is not helpful to your case. The ruling was that only military-style weapons are properly protected by the Second Amendment. Per wikipedia “In United States v. Miller (1939), the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment did not protect weapon types not having a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.””

Fully Automatic weapons are illegal to possess. The Supreme Court has never found that to be unconstitutional.

They are legal with a special license, and the court was going against the intent of the Amendment’s authors in allowing any restrictions at all.

I can not recall a case that said that the now-expired “assault weapons” ban was unconstitutional.

And yet it was. Amazing how that happens.

Can you legally possess an shoulder-fired missile? That’s certainly an “arm.”

You should be. But, that’s not necessary to serve the purpose of the Second Amendment. The right to own military-style rifles, however, is.

Tony From Long Island, you stated; “You could have as many “arms” as you want, you are not defeating the United States Military. It’s almost ridiculous that this even needs to be said since it’s so far fetched.”

It seems to me that the Viet Cong defeated the US military in Vietnam and the Taliban in Afghanistan have been holding their own against the US military for the last 16 years.

The Supreme Court has held that the right to “bear arms” is not unlimited. No. Constitutional right is unlimited.

Convicted Felons can not “bear arms.”

Fully Automatic weapons are illegal to possess. The Supreme Court has never found that to be unconstitutional.

I can not recall a case that said that the now-expired “assault weapons” ban was unconstitutional.

Can you legally possess an shoulder-fired missile? That’s certainly an “arm.”

The Second Amendment does not, however, state how many, what type, how much ammo, etc.
………..
For a reason.

Heavily regulating firearms does not infringe on the right to own one.
…………
“One” is limiting, therefore infringing.

“Heavily regulating” makes a choice for individuals. Choice is the most basic freedom.

Pro-gun propaganda nonsense

I’ve seen it. It’s not.

Second. I have never advocated for the abolition of all firearms. If someone wants to waste their time owning a handgun to defend themselves from a breaking that statistically will probably never happen, be my guest. I hope your kid doesn’t shoot themselves with it – which is more statistically likely to happen or you don’t kill yourself with it, which is also more statistically likely to happen.

You are misinterpreting the statistics. Far more crimes are prevented because criminals are either afraid that the likelihood of the potential victim having a gun, or because a gun is demonstrated by the would be victim without being used. Instances of a weapon actually being discharged to stop a crime are relatively rare, but it’s an incorrect use of statistics to only look at that. John Lott started out as an anti-gun rights researcher who surveyed all the data to prove gun rights advocates wrong and ended up being convinced himself and publishing “More Guns, Less Crime” making an ironclad statistical proof that higher gun ownership correlates closely with lower crime rates which you really should read. Of course highlights of the same basic material is available in shorter form than reading a whole book too.

But, the Second Amendment as you should know is not about preventing street crime. It has to do with preventing tyranny by governments against their civilian populations, another case that is well demonstrated by the many tyrannical regimes that disarmed their civilians as a precussor to slaughtering them.

I have stated multiple times that the Second Amendment gives every citizen the right to bear “Arms.” That right shall not be infringed. The Second Amendment does not, however, state how many, what type, how much ammo, etc. Heavily regulating firearms does not infringe on the right to own one.

If it said that the right to keep and bear books shall not be infringed, would it need to say how many, what type, etc., before it became an infringement? Of course not. Any curtailment of a right in any way shape or form is an infringement. It’s like saying you can have a demonstration, but only in a tiny enclosed space that won’t hold very many people and no reporters allowed. Or you have the right to publish newspapers as long as you don’t print more than a few hundred copies. Or you have the right to go to any denomination of Christian church you want but no other religion. Or you have the right to express yourself as long as the censorship board approves your book, pamphlet, movie, broadcast or article.

The right to keep and bear arms and to form militias exists as a check on tyrannical government, so regulating how many and what type of guns someone can have is absolutely exactly what it the amendment was supposed to prevent against ever happening.

Tony from long Island

Luke got the phrase exactly right. Here is a documentary that explains why.
Innocents Betrayed – The history of Gun Control – FULL LENGTH

LOL …and then we have this exchange in the comments at Ballot Access News:

William on October 7, 2017 at 8:37 pm said:

Stephen Paddock’s Voter Registration Party affiliation: Democratic Party Registered to vote in: Palm Beach County, Florida
Registration Date 04/11/1984 Voters Status : Active Precinct: 4138 Congressional District:22 House District 89 Senate District 4 School Board District 5 Stephen Paddock was and is a Democrat

paulie on October 8, 2017 at 8:24 am said:

Nice try, William, but that Stephen Paddock is 66 and is married to a Barbara Paddock. The shooter Stephen Paddock was 64 and unmarried. The Stephen Paddock in Boca Raton has a phone number that is easily found with his voter reg, so I hope he is not being harassed by morons who haven’t considered that there could be more than one person with that name right now.

paulie on October 8, 2017 at 8:29 am said:

Additionally, the Stephen Paddock linked above lives in Palm Beach County. There’s also a Stephen Paddock, 65, married to Sylvia Paddock, in Sarasota. The shooter Stephen Paddock, when he lived in Florida, lived about 60 miles from Orlando, nowhere near either Palm Beach or Sarasota.

smartalek on October 8, 2017 at 8:39 am said:

Publicans and conservatards don’t care about facts.

No matter how many times they’re refuted, they’ll just double-down, triple-down, quadruple-down on their lies.

The phrase you are both grasping for is “victim disarmament” (with or without quotes).

Andy and DJ must LOVE Paddock .. . . . turns out he was a 9/11 Troofer! He was a “false flag” nut just like you guys!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4636626/hooker-reveals-las-vegas-gunman-violent-rape-fantasies-bragged-i-was-born-bad/

From the further suggestions in paulie’s video. A message for just one other person. You know who you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tHfxEEZBa4

This song from the late, great, Tom Petty, serves as a good message from me to all of the trolls and other people attacking me, as well as to all of the enemies of liberty in general.

Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers – I Won’t Back Down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvlTJrNJ5lA

Andy
October 7, 2017 at 18:46

This is all part of a long term plan to disarm the American people. A disarmed population is easier to control.
………..

Bingo!

I’d be willing to bet one method they’re going to use is the education system. They’ll preach their hate to kids in school about how bad guns are and that means people who own them are bad…. including the parents who own them and they’ll have kids freaking out that their parents are bad people.

Mark my words. My grand kids (one is 5 and soon to be and one is soon to be 4) will see the end of rights being protected.

Funny how posters that nobody has ever heard of here are popping up claiming that the Las Vegas shooting could not have been a false flag. What a bunch of crap. Whether Paddock actually did the shooting or not, it could certainly be a false flag, and the motives for false flag are pretty clear, which are to push the gun control and mental health screening agendas, and also to push for a greater police state lockdown (body scanners in hotels and at events, more police and security guards, more spying, etc…). Paddock could have easily been a patsy (there were reports of multiple shooters), and even if Paddock pulled the trigger, it is a known fact that the government intelligence agencies have handlers who manipulate people who are mentally ill.

Think the government would not do this? Think again. Read Operation Northwoods. People in government have a history of pulling false flags.

“If there were a second gunman, how did he escape without being recorded on the video cameras that Paddock had set up? The police got there while the shooting was still occurring; how did he get past the police?”

Police are reportedly saying they are certain there was no second gunman.

“Concerning the problem of smoke accumulation, that would be the same problem whether there were one or two gunmen. One person could have alternated between two rooms, allowing time for air to clear out the window, and that is the official narrative.”

Correct, and in fact, the story of moving back and forth between two adjacent rooms in the suite makes sense.

“A lone gunman, pumped with adrenaline, could fire for the 10 minutes or so. Not clear on the amount of time.”

What’s not clear? He fired for about 9 minutes, and not nonstop. Nothing too daunting.

“Paddock had been prescribed an anti-depressant that is known to cause aggression. This indicates brain health problems.

His father was a convicted violent bank robber, who escaped prison and was caught years later running a bingo parlor. The son appears to have inherited tendencies to violence and gambling.”

Yes, that is all correct.

“He worked as an IRS agent, indicating a leftwing bias. He worked for them during the Reagan administration, and Reagan cut back funding for the IRS.”

Now you are back to grasping at straws, as is your usual MO. There are IRS agents with various ideological slants, and some with none. It’s just a job that pays pretty well and has good benefits and very little job loss risk. If you are amoral and have the requisite skills it’s not a bad way to earn a living. It’s also something he did decades ago.

Weighed against the fact that his brother said he had no political or religious affiliations (other than pro-gun views), that he was not registered to vote and did not have a social media presence of any kind it’s far more likely that he was a purely selfish individual and the IRS job was just a good way to turn his skill with math into a relatively lucrative lifestyle at that stage in his life, just as being a landlord and high stakes gambler served the same purposes later in his life. Reportedly he made $5 million gambling in 2016 alone.

He may also have been a cruel individual who enjoyed making others miserable. That would be something an IRS agent would be in a position to do. It would also be something a landlord could conceivably be in a position to do. He was allegedly overheard berating his girlfriend in public, telling her that he bought her and paid for her just like he did for his drink. He was also reportedly not friendly in general. That could explain why he would want to work for the IRS far more than any leftist ideology.

“He traveled to two Islamic countries; and also the Philippines, which has an active Islamist insurgency.”

Even more straw-grasping. How many non-Islamic countries did he travel to?

“There is no obvious political or religious flag, so this could not be a false flag.”

Sure…it could. Or it could be a guy with brain problems, childhood trauma and mental health issues which worsened recently. Which seems more likely? I would think the latter.

Everyone here should watch this video.
‘
10 Characteristics of False Flags

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvk0A0KTc1M

Links to http://heavy.com/news/2017/10/stephen-paddock-politics-political-views-beliefs-opinions-trump-stances-democrat-republican-las-vegas-shooting/

Eric told The Daily Mail that his brother, to his knowledge, had “no political affiliation” and also had “no religious affiliation.” In an interview with CNN, Eric said he had no idea how his brother obtained the weapons, but he held pro-gun beliefs. Public records obtained by The Daily Mail indicated that Paddock held both hunting and fishing licenses.

Paddock was not a registered voter, as either a Democrat or a Republican, in Clark County or elsewhere in Nevada, where his permanent residence was located. He was also not a registered voter in Florida, despite some social media claims he was a registered Democrat there.

….

Additional information on Paddock’s political beliefs and views of President Donald Trump are scarce, and he doesn’t appear to have any social media presence.

“She said that he would lay in bed moaning and screaming. It sounds like he was in pain.”

I don’t want to sound like a know-it-all, but after it started getting reported within the first 48 that there were zero signs here, no motive, no manifesto, the first thing I thought about was some sort of brain disease.

This is only true because I remember reading the open letter Robin Williams’ wife had written after he committed suicide, as it turned out he wasn’t some weak-willed Hollywood star unable to handle getting older. He actually had some kind of brain disease, and he had no idea what was going wrong, and the doctors just pooh-poohed it. Just like this guy, he was experiencing more and more pain, voices, delusions, and he couldn’t explain it. Finally he just decided to end his suffering. It was a depressing letter. Too bad this guy didn’t choose the same path.

600 comments . . . . but how many on topic? 🙂

Ignoring me (or anyone else) will change everything.

LOL

DJ is another one of those who is probably best ignored. I should follow my own advice on that more as well.

I do shipping and receiving. When there is nothing to either ship, nor receive . . . . .

I’ll vouch for that one. I have had shipping and receiving jobs in the past, before I petitioned. Mine did not last as long. We did not carry internet access around with us in those days and I was never very good at picking up a broom and looking busy when we had down times. The longest lasting job I ever had which was not my own business was taking weather readings once an hour at the airport at night. I was there by myself and only had to work about 5 minutes out of every hour. I only had a desktop computer back then but I actually did carry it to work sometimes. Our internet access in those days was dialup. I think I actually did hook up the modem to the office phone and call the university to get online a few times but I may have just worked on college papers and played cards on the computer at the airport, I can’t remember.

Tony From Long Island
October 5, 2017 at 14:48

DJ:

“You have a sickness and the sooner you admit that, the sooner you can get the help you need.”

Sowing seeds has never been considered a sickness. Their production is irrelevant.

However, being obsessed with another person is a sickness. Refer to the statement in quotation marks.

It also could be pointed out you claim to be at work.
An inquiring mind wants to know: Are you paid to stalk Andy? Or just to post your obsessions about your perceptions of others problems?
Do you punch out while playing on a political message board, or do you charge your employer for your play time?

Anyone who defends his conspiracy theories is equally deluded.

You need to work on your definition of “stalk.”

Why are YOU obsessed with ME? hmmm. . . . . well you think Andy is just dandy . . .so that says a lot about you.
……………

I don’t “need”. Needs are air, water, food, shelter, clothing. I have plenty of each.

Do you stalk Andy on company time? Inquiring minds *want* to know. Does your employer know you’re playing at being smart on a political message board his time? Your opinion of what I think about Andy is your opinion. I said I believe a lot of what he posts and have read most of it elsewhere but detest videos. That’s not saying I think he is dandy. That’s your word trying (and failing) to be cute though it may entertain some others, but probably not your employer. Unless, of course, you’re a paid troll.

The sad fact is that there way more people that fantasize about doing that kind of stuff than follow through and actually do it. If anything I am surprised that it does not happen more often. There are a lot of people carrying widespread hatred of themselves and other people around in them, festering. As for Paddock he was reportedly suffering some sort of growing physical and mental deterioration in the last few months. He was complaining of various symptoms, taking valium and exhibiting paranoia. His gun collecting accelerated and he was gambling more heavily.

Politifact? Seriously? They are a biased left wing fake news front for the Zionists, man. C’mon, you can do better than that! What does Texe Marrs say? Or Jeff Rense? Give me someone credible like that, not that politifact swill!

Is that the then future President Obama in the screencap of that video above? It sort of looks like him. And if I’m not mistaken that is a map of his native country of Kenya on his ring!

” well established scientific principles, such as the association between…..global warming and CO2 emissions ”

English translation – If you don’t believe in the fairy tale of so-called ” global warming ” ( now changed to the new advertising/marketing/Social Engineering term of ” climate change ” ) you are a mental case, ” nutjob,” fill-in-the-blank.

I have to give credit to The Plantation Masters of our country. They really know how to keep the goyim in check. Of course it helps to have plenty of gullible progressives/liberals ready and trained by the public school system to swallow whatever nonsence The Empire puts out without the slightest peep of protest.

Thank you Luke for calling out the nut jobs on their nuttery. Watch out or DJ will accuse you of stalking the nut bags.

I think Sander van der Linden is a big supporter of Bill Weld 2020!

lol, well-played.

DJ:

“You have a sickness and the sooner you admit that, the sooner you can get the help you need.”

Sowing seeds has never been considered a sickness. Their production is irrelevant.

However, being obsessed with another person is a sickness. Refer to the statement in quotation marks.

It also could be pointed out you claim to be at work.
An inquiring mind wants to know: Are you paid to stalk Andy? Or just to post your obsessions about your perceptions of others problems?
Do you punch out while playing on a political message board, or do you charge your employer for your play time?

Anyone who defends his conspiracy theories is equally deluded.

You need to work on your definition of “stalk.”

Why are YOU obsessed with ME? hmmm. . . . . well you think Andy is just dandy . . .so that says a lot about you.

I did catch the end of your comment accidentally.

“BTW, Republicans were in control on 911 and took away more liberties in a few short weeks than democrats have in a life time.”

No doubt, but no new gun laws were passed, which seems to be the only likely upshot of this one. Since the perpetrator is not being painted as being connected with foreign countries or any organized domestic groups I’m not seeing a big push on that stuff which is the usual area of interest of Republicans – ramping up the warfare state and the police state. He’s not even being portrayed as particularly mentally ill so I’m not seeing much of a push for mandatory psychiatric care being ramped up. All the chatter is about guns, and I don’t think that will go anywhere with Republicans in office.

“much of it questionable and/or not available to the public,”

If there are links it is available to the public. Questionable is what should be used to judge media (and gov’t) stories, many, if not most, don’t pass a smell test, and what they make public lacks credibility…..so, what do you use to determine if something is worth the time or the effort? Your opinion? Do others opinions (who post links for at least some sort of substantiation) not warrant an effort of at least looking or reading?

Or, are you admitting you’ve wasted your time in the past to look at all the information (available to any who are curious) and made sound decisions, with reason, that everyone else, except you and those who think like you, is crazy?

That’s not very open minded. Nor does it appear to be very libertarian. It may be Libertarian, but there is a difference. Your continued attacks on Andy and the info he posts indicates a belief of the “official” story, which as we all know, is rarely, if ever, the whole story rendering it not true.

Personally, I don’t read the links or watch the videos. I detest video’s and most of what he posts I’ve read in one form or another, but, I don’t attack him, or his posts.

I know he likely correct in his assumptions, and I have (in the past) read many, many, many articles (most of them from 911truth.org) and there are many very intelligent people who question the “official” stories.

In regards to this Vegas mess, I read a story about the shooter being on Valium….. I’ve not seen that discussed here, but, the “official” stories have a lot of blank spaces and some convenient findings.
Is it a false flag? I don’t know. But what I do know is; we will never get the whole story. That makes in not true, so calling it a false flag is a legitimate endeavor.

I saw this morning Gingrich has already conceded “more” fed gun laws are needed. That adds fuel to an already incredibly hot fire. He is “respected” as a Republican and an Historian. I think he’s extremely intelligent and his opinions are listened to. That alone is enough to consider a false flag, but, add in that idiot from Ca who has already penned another law is reminiscent of the laws submitted after 911.

BTW, Republicans were in control on 911 and took away more liberties in a few short weeks than democrats have in a life time.

So yeah, it could be another false flag.

Andy:

e won’t have liberty as long as their are false flags

Great! We have liberty now!

as long as there are people who are naive enough to believe the official government stories, including those who are self proclaimed libertarians.

Government lying about details of an event is not the same as them being the perpetrators.

Don’t you have any hobbies other than spouting Troofer nonsense? Do you play an instrument? Crochet? Put together puzzles? Download snuff porn? Walk through a beautiful fall afternoon? Anything?

You have a sickness and the sooner you admit that, the sooner you can get the help you need.

“paulie
October 5, 2017 at 10:32
‘is there any incident like this that has ever happened that you think was a false flag?’
Yes, it’s certainly possible that there have been false flag events. It’s a waste of time to spend a lot of time trying to figure out which ones exactly, and it may be impossible to figure it out. It seems highly unlikely that all or most incidents are false flags.”

It is not a waste of time at all. It is vital in order to understand what is really going on in the world.

We won’t have liberty as long as their are false flags, and as long as there are people who are naive enough to believe the official government stories, including those who are self proclaimed libertarians.

A person simply does not understand what is going on if they refuse to examine, or outright dismiss, all of the conspiracies that happen in government.

It is this attitude that led to the Libertarian Party nominating people like Bob Barr, Gary Johnson, Bill Weld, etc…

Don’t forget the Maine, Andy! Remember the Maine!!

It seems unlikely that new gun legislation will pass and be signed into law with a Republican congress and president. On the other hand, gun sales were down significantly since Trump was elected, up until this incident. Now they are way up. Bump stocks especially are selling through the roof on the speculation that they may be banned. Some people are making a lot of money here.

Anyone want to spin any conspiracy conjecture off that one? Paddock apparently sent a lot of money to the Philippines shortly before he died. Maybe he had some inoperable disease, say of the brain, and got paid off? Who knows.

Meanwhile, there are reports that Paddock scoped out other possible targets in Chicago and Boston, including the Lollapalooza festival. If true, that should put the nail in the coffin on any wild conjecture that he picked a country music concert because a higher percentage of country fans are Trump voters.

Andy

Anthony, is there any incident like this that has ever happened that you think was a false flag?

Do you even recognize incidents that even mainstream historians consider to have been false flags, like the sinking of the Lusitania, the Gulf of Tonkin “attack,” and the sinking of the USS Liberty?

Since my name is Anthony also, I will answer. If you are referring to any “mass shooting” in the last 20 years – no. Are there any that you DON’T think were “false flags?”

Note of what you listed were “false flag” incidents.

The Lusitania? Really? Your paranoia and gullibility knows no bounds.

Lying about the details of an incident is not the same as them being “False flag” incidents.

Paulie:

No other windows were broken to shoot out of.

My understanding is that there were two broken windows allowing gunsmoke to escape while he moved back and forth between them.

That’s what I meant. The only windows broken were those HE shot out of. There was no other shooter. Do people not understand how echos work? There was a mad rush out of there. The last thing people were listening closely for was if there was another shooter. There wasn’t.

That’s not exactly true. Democrats hold a minority of seats in congress.

That’s what I meant by in the minority.

They are not a minority of the American people.

If you want to talk about the American people, neither Democrats nor Republicans are in the majority – many people can’t vote, choose not to vote for a variety of reasons, or consider themselves independents. There are more registered Democrats than Republicans but neither one is a majority, even of registered voters, much less the whole population. But the American people was not what I was talking about – we were discussing passing legislation through congress and getting it signed into law. I just observed that the idea that the shooting was staged to push gun legislation seems unlikely since, with a Republican congress and president, it’s almost certain that such legislation will be defeated. That in no way prevents Democrats from proposing it, as one would expect, but my prediction is that it will not pass.

Hopefully the Supreme Court can rectify that in a few months.

How so?

Natural News is as expected off base. Paddock was not using full auto weapons, he was using semi-auto weapons with a bump stock modification that increased their rate of fire. He had multiple weapons precisely so he would not deal with jams or any other such issues. He busted out at least two windows so the room was no longer entirely enclosed. He did not closely aim his weapons but rather just sprayed the crowd. If what Natural News claims were true there would have been millions of people in this country with the training to know that immediately. And the LV sheriff only expressed amazement that Paddock got all that equipment up to the room by himself. I guess he never heard of multiple trips with a luggage cart?

Better translation: Life is too short to waste much time on crackpots who prance around in public in satan tights and then have the comedic gall to question other people’s male masculinity.

It’s nice to know some people like dL can translate English into English, even though Grundmann can’t.

All you did was ridicule the four or five posters that had different info than you.

They didn’t have different info than me, just nonsense from disreputable sources. I already looked at a bunch of it, and it was predictably short on verifiable facts. And I already said I don’t rule out the possibility of a false flag in any particular shooting; it’s the idea that all or most of them are false flag that I find ridiculous.

Jill

I know that crack detectives Paulie, DL and Tony had this all figured out by this morning (Wow! In less than twenty-four hours!), but just for fun, I thought I’d post this.

I’m glad you three told us there was only one shooter, or I might be confused by this.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-04/clark-county-sheriff-says-hard-believe-shooter-didnt-have-help-unless-hes-superman

C’mon, Jill . . . Zerohedge? Really? I thought you were better than that. Don’t go down Andy’s path! Zero hedge isn’t even rated Right or Left . . . it’s rated as a conspiracy / pseudo science site!

The “help” the sheriff was talking about was in relation to his possibility to escape. Funny how it’s only the RWNJ sites that talk about him having an accomplice . . .

No other windows were broken to shoot out of. He had cameras set up outside his hotel room door. No one else left that room – dead or alive. Why are we even arguing about something that is such blatant false nonsense?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/

Kevin Bjorn Borg:

Snopes is a biased leftwing source.

No. It’s not.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/snopes/

MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: Official story of Las Vegas shooting unravels; physical impossibility of lone gunman senior citizen makes narrative ludicrous

https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-10-02-lone-gunman-theory-of-las-vegas-shooter-is-complete-nonsense-stephen-paddock.html#

From the article: “Even highly trained Navy Seals would have a difficult time running a full auto weapon for 10 minutes straight. Such weapon systems are brutal on the operator. They require tremendous strength, stamina and expert troubleshooting to keep running. Full-auto weapons overheat and jam. They demand incredible strength to keep aimed on target. They require expert reloading and weapons clearing in the case of jams, and the hotel room would have been so full of smoke and powder residue that it would be almost impossible to keep breathing from that enclosed space.

Far from what the firearms-illiterate media claims, these are not systems that any Joe off the street can just pick up and use to effortlessly mow down 500 people. Running these systems requires extensive training, experience and stamina. It is physically impossible for a guy like Stephen Paddock to operate such a system in the sustained, effective manner that we witnessed, especially when shooting from an elevated position which throws off all the ranging of the weapon system.

Far from being a Navy Seal, Stephen Paddock is a retired accountant senior citizen with a gambling problem and a flabby physique. The only way he could have carried out this shooting is if he were transformed into a human superweapon through a magic wand. I’m calling this ‘Mission IMPOSSIBLE’ because of the physical impossibility of a retired, untrained senior citizen pulling this off.”

Did you even watch the video above? Grundmann makes a strong libertarian argument in favor of privatization of education. Why are you so focused on criticizing the way he dresses to draw attention to his cause? That short interview, viewed over 1000 times, probably did more to advance the cause of the liberty than anything dL has done in his life.

Grundmann, if you can find any crazy homeless people that are crazy enough to argue with you, by all means, have at it. That is if you can “defend your position” with them, LOL. Sane people, on the other hand, know that choosing not to argue with crazy people doesn’t mean we can’t do it – it means we don’t want to. Incidentally, I am not a progressive, and I already write in plain English, no translation needed.

Jill, when did I ever give you the idea that I am a “crack detective”? All I’ve done is pay attention to the news. And yes, I did read a bunch of the conspiracy conjecture too.

” Engaging them is an extremely poor use of time and effort.”

English translation – I can’t defend my positions. I can’t make any rational arguments in their defense. I can’t refute the superiority of the counter arguments/positions/ideas. I know this but I will NEVER admit that I am wrong so I will say that I am wasting my time arguing with my rational opponents in order to save face; i.e.; my ego and ( especially ) my ” image;” and protect my crazy/rotten/assinine ideas/beliefs/religion from being shredded as they would be in any real discussion.

A common-as-sand tactic used each and avery day by so-called ” progressives ” since mankind was tossed out of The Garden.

I know its gonna disappoint a lot of you Troofers, but given the fact that there was little warning, no manifesto, and no apparent political/religious act to grind, I’ll put my money on some sort of run-of-the-mill organic brain disease.

“In the months before his deadly rampage, 64-year-old Stephen Paddock was a man “descending into madness,” according to a person briefed on new findings in the investigation.

More details are emerging, investigators say, that suggest Paddock’s mental state was deteriorating in the weeks before he opened fire into a crowd of concertgoers in Las Vegas on Sunday — significant weight loss, an increasingly slovenly physical appearance and an obsession with his girlfriend’s ex-husband.”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/portrait-emerging-las-vegas-shooter-man-descending-madness/story?id=50275427

“paulie
October 4, 2017 at 22:30
We’ve been over this before. I don’t scoff at the idea of false flag operations. I scoff at the idea that all or most of these nutball and terrorist attacks are false flags.”

Then you have not been paying very close attention.

I follow this stuff pretty closely, and I’d say that most of the big, hyped up shootings that have happened over the last several years, have been false flags.

This recent incident in Nevada looks pretty damn fishy. Some 64 year old guy, who was not even known to be a “gun guy,” for no apparent reason, just “goes nuts” and starts popping random people off in a large crowd. There are already multiple reports of shots being fired from multiple locations.

These government intelligence agencies have billions of dollars at their disposal. The general public, and even most of the people in government, have no idea what these agencies do with their budgets.

Gun rights are a major obstacle for the would be tyrants in government. It is pretty clear to anyone who looks into the subject that there is a long term plan in place to disarm the American people.

We’ve been over this before. I don’t scoff at the idea of false flag operations. I scoff at the idea that all or most of these nutball and terrorist attacks are false flags. I’ve met a lot of crazy and dangerous people. Lots of them have opportunities to acquire weapons and sociopathic tendencies and/or psychotic delusions. Only some of them work(ed) for the government. So it’s pretty easy to see how some genuine, non false flag attacks would happen. I’m not going to put it past governments to do this shit either but when you keep saying it’s a false flag every time one of these things happen you become like the boy who cried wolf.

Those who scoff at the suggestion of false flag attacks are uniformed and naive. The term “false flag” exists for a reason, and it has been around for a long time.

Don’t believe that anyone in the US government would engage in a false flag event?

This again.

There is a declassified government document from the 1960’s called Operation Northwoods, where government officials talked about different ideas for false flag attacks to get the public behind the US going to war with Cuba.

Here’s the Wikipedia entry on Operation Northwoods:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

From the Wikipedia entry: “Operation Northwoods was a proposed false flag operation against the Cuban government, that originated within the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) of the United States government in 1962. The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) or other U.S. government operatives to commit acts of terrorism against American civilians and military targets, blaming it on the Cuban government, and using it to justify a war against Cuba. The plans detailed in the document included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.[2] The proposals were rejected by the Kennedy administration.”

“It helps to remember that some of the people on here are as nutty or nuttier than the schizos wandering around talking to themselves downtown. Engaging them is an exceedingly poor use of time and effort.”

man, aint that the truth.

” the shooter was part of the same gang that calls for gun control …”

Not likely. He has been collecting guns since the 1980s.

“killing them because it is imagined that they did not vote for The Queen.”

Well yeah, except for the fact that this is not a fact and not even a likely theory. Also, he himself fits the profile of a Trump voter at least as much as an average country music fan does:

Well off millionaire, landlord, defense contractor, long time gun collector, pilot, 64 year old straight white male with a submissive Filipina girlfriend, professional gambler, living in sunbelt states (Texas, Florida, Nevada).

None of those are 100% certain indicators of being a Republican or conservative, but they are at least as much as listening to country.

And I happen to like country music and (among many genres I listen to) and guns myself, but as for Trump…not so much.

So far the Las Vegas shooting is following the standard pattern : guy uses a knife to cut and stab as many as possible while shouting ” Alluha akbar ” and the claim is ” we have no reason to think of any terrorist connections.” No evidence. Nope. Thats not him in the picture. Nope. There are a million Steves. So what if he wears a NASA shirt? 50 million others do too.

Now the claim is tha same for Paddock; i.e.; ” the Sgt. Schultz defense ” – I know NOTHING. I see NOTHING. I hear NOTHING.”

Why? And why not read his note??

Because it would blow a hole in the progressive/liberal/Establishment/media narrative/smoke screen of how the violent freaks of the anti-Trump/anti-America/anti-Christian crowd are so like Bambi – innocent babes in the woods against the Big Meanies.

It will be so much easier to shreek for gun control when the fact is suppressed that the shooter was part of the same gang that calls for gun control while attacking people to stop their free speech and killing them because it is imagined that they did not vote for The Queen.

Here are two photos, the resemblance is uncanny
https://www.facebook.com/LibertarianPartyDefenseCaucus/photos/p.957348407739297/957348407739297/?type=3&theater

Snopes is a biased leftwing source. They acknowledge the photo is blurry, but then make contrasts that aren’t obvious from looking at the photos. They acknowledge in the body of the text that they don’t know, but still label as “false”.

Lockheed Martin is a major contractor for NASA.

Yeah…that doesn’t even look like him. Nice try (not).

Interesting video. There is already a move to put body scanners in hotels, like airports have with the TSA.

I was in Nevada in the fall of 2014 working on a marijuana legalization ballot initiative. During the same time I was there, there was a petition which I boycotted, which was for a new gun control law that would ban the private sale of firearms, as in it was so all firearms sales had to go through a government background check, which of course there’d have been a fee to conduct, and it would have denied gun sales to felons. This initiative received funding from former New York City Mayor, Michael Bloomberg. A lot of money was paid out for signatures (it was paying petition circulators $5 per signature, plus there was a .50 cent bonus, plus there were coordinator overrides on top of this). I may have been the only person who worked on the marijuana petition during this time period who refused to work on that gun control petition (I of course received no thanks or anything from anyone in the Libertarian Party for taking a principled stand that was to my financial detriment). Nevada had historically been a pro-gun state, with lots of “cowboy” types and others who gravitate towards freedom living there, but due to the wild shift in demographics, with lots of foreigners and left wing big city liberal types having moved into Nevada, the gun control initiative ended up passing (it was voted on in the November 2016 election). The gun control initiative actually did not pass in every county in Nevada, with the exception of Clark County, which is by far the most populated county in the state. The gun control initiative did not pass by a wide margin in Clark County, but Clark County has such a huge population that it was enough to tip the balance for the gun control initiative passing my a narrow majority for the state. There was a silver lining though for pro-gun rights advocates, because although the initiative passed, it was not implemented, because the initiative was to rely on the FBI to conduct the background checks, and the FBI told them that they did not have the manpower or the funding to conduct that many background checks, and a state ballot initiative could not mandate that a federal agency spend more money. Bloomberg, and his fellow anti-gun right zealots, vowed regroup in Nevada for a revised gun control initiative for a future election. I’m sure Bloomberg and his band of gun grabbers are salivating over this incident.

Here’s an interesting video on the subject. The video does not mention Bloomberg and his groups (Mayors Against Illegal Guns, and Every Town for Gun Safety), but they certainly are among those who benefit from this.

Eerie Predictions in Vegas… Cui Bono?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNqxUuyHFzc

DJG:

The shooter was filmed as an active participant at an anti-Trump rally. Go to pamelageller.com as facebook and youtube are already ” cleaning up the mess;” i.e.; sanitizing/censoring the evidence.

You’re kidding, right? Pamela Geller? Really? . . . On the bias meter, she’s just about off the chart.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/geller-report/

Even after a year and a half of posting here, I still wonder how people like this really exist.

” the murderous racist far right ”

A) What about the far left, or simply left, racism against whites/caucasians? The ” left ” screeches about ” racism ” while they themselves are the biggest racists since they not only attack whites but…

B) don’t even defend blacks against the biggest mass murderers of the black populace – Planned Parenthood and the entire Abortion Industry which has killed literally MILLIONS of blacks!!

AND progressives/liberals/antifa not only are silent against this black genocide but they actually ( because they themselves are stupid lackeys/uncle and aunt tom’s of The Plantation Masters ) SUPPORT Planned Parenthood in its Jihad against the black community.

Will progressives/liberals/antifa EVER say ONE WORD against an organization whose founder called blacks ” human weeds?”

Answer – No way. Why ? Because progressives/liberals/antifa are just like the goon squads that helped the Bolshevicks to power and then helped them to kill millions of Russians. The same stupid Plantation Master ( bankers ) lackeys doing the same stupid/evil things in our time as they did then and for the same reason – to overthrow the Christian foundations of the nation.

No, Paulie. History shows then, as it will show now, that the Communist/Socialist/progressive/liberal/antifa walking political turd is the biggest, by orders of magnitude, instigator of violence and racism against humanity.

In the real world, it turns out that the Vegas shooter

From what I have gleaned he mostly worked as an accountant, and was later a landlord. Most recently he has been semi-retired and working as a professional gambler.

Pamela Gellar is not a credible source. If she has video of someone that may have kinda sorta looked like Paddock I will wait for more credible sources to confirm that it was him.

The shooter was filmed as an active participant at an anti-Trump rally. Go to pamelageller.com as facebook and youtube are already ” cleaning up the mess;” i.e.; sanitizing/censoring the evidence.

So, OJ Simpson gets released, buys a boatload of legal marijuana from a transgender member of Antifa, who is really a secret muslim. That person, in turn, plants an ISIS flag and propaganda materials In the room of some random white guy. When that random white guys returns to his room after a night of innocent blackjack, the secret Muslim kills him and shoots at the crowd. . . . He escapes and lets the dead white guy take the blame. . . . then he gets paid for it all by George Soros. . . . . . sounds about right.

That should all go without saying. But what the really cutting edge investigators are looking at is what role the transgender agenda played in this latest deep state/antifa false flag operation. We hope to update you with the latest discoveries shortly.

Paulie, you are on fire today!! Keep it up! . . . oh . . if you are a secret Mexican . . . tu es en fuego!!!!

lol

This shooting in Las Vegas is already looking like another false flag.

Wake me up when you find one that doesn’t. Apparently this is the Schrodinger shooting: is it antifa or false flag? My bet is neither but I’m guessing your answer will be both.

Lots of unanswered questions here. Some “lone nut” just starts popping people off for no apparent reason.

Lots of people admit to fantasizing about doing stuff like that. Is it really that hard to imagine that some of them actually follow through and do it?

This sure does fit in nice with the gun control and police state agenda.

How so? There have been a bunch of shootings and no legislation. And now we have a Republican president with a Republican congress, chances that they will pass any such legislation and get it signed are low. If “they” wanted a big shooting to trigger new gun restrictions why now?

Stay tuned for more details, and do not forget how much the government and mainstream media lie and spin stories.

Whereas Alex Jones only tells the gospel truth. Yeah right.

Alex Jones reported from a source on the hostage negotiating team, which went into the hotel room, who said there was “antifa crap” everywhere.

No, he reported some bullshit he made up from an anonymous source which he may or may not have also made up who is allegedly somehow connected to the scene. Sounds like total bullshit.

Alex Jones reported from

Well then . . .that settles it . . . . How do otherwise intelligent people say such nonsense . . .

“I am glad to see the Libertarians embracing this crowd. Coming out of their closet to flash their anti-Christian and pro-antifa inner/real selves is good news for voters who would be potentially otherwise fooled regarding their REAL philosophical roots.”

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Surrrrrrrrre.

“Its so sad that only the Constituion Party will truly oppose the progressive/liberal/antifa rodents and their inherent violence, corruption, and outright evil.”

Actually what’s really sad is how the CP is dying off and losing ballot access since these last elections, along with the bad publicity that it gets for its theocratic platform.

Seems that the paleocon and religious right crowds (including Roy Moore) embrace the GOP more so today then before, and snub the CP and conservative/paleocon minor parties in general.

… Oh wait; that’s not sad.

Jill and William, I would not jump to any conclusions pushed by the mainstream media. This shooting in Las Vegas is already looking like another false flag. I’m sure I will get some nasty comments from the usual crowd of anti-intellectuals and “respectability politics” people who post here, but I do not give a damn what the narrowminded think, as they are part of the problem.

Lots of unanswered questions here. Some “lone nut” just starts popping people off for no apparent reason. This sure does fit in nice with the gun control and police state agenda.

Stay tuned for more details, and do not forget how much the government and mainstream media lie and spin stories.

Don, not all Libertarians are embracing Antifa. I reject those dirtbag commies, and I renounce their attacks on free speech, and initiation of violence and property destruction. I reject their advocacy of Marxism, and I reject their globalist puppet masters like George Soros.

There are other Libertarians out there who agree with me.

Don’t think that a few Libertarians you encounter online represent the entire Libertarian Party and movement.

So we can add 59 Las Vegas ” points ” to the progressive/liberal/antifa scorecard and I will give a half-point to them for each person wounded. So that is an extra 500+ half-points.

Pretty good tally, Paulie, for your side of the murder score card which we discussed earlier.

Unfortunately Paddock; there to shoot down imagined Trump voters as has already been celebrated by sub-humans/progressives/liberals throughout the country; is only the beginning as the inherent, and yes very very murderous, violence of the progressive/liberal/antifa movement will increasingly come to the surface and easily dwarf, as it already does, the so-called violence of the so-called ” nazis/racists/fill-in-the-blank.”

I am glad to see the Libertarians embracing this crowd. Coming out of their closet to flash their anti-Christian and pro-antifa inner/real selves is good news for voters who would be potentially otherwise fooled regarding their REAL philosophical roots.

Yes, Paulie – the progressives/liberals are FAR more violent and murderous, both in philosophy and. ( especially ) reality than any of the ” nazi ” etc. Boogymen which they conjure up as a smokescreen cover for their own anti-Christian, anti-American, and personal pathologies.

Violence – including murder – is as natural to the progressives/liberals as ” apple pie ” is American.

Its so sad that only the Constituion Party will truly oppose the progressive/liberal/antifa rodents and their inherent violence, corruption, and outright evil.

So, that was not Eric Dondero?

Luke, I was responding to Eric Dondero’s post of this article….

https://libertarianheathen.com/2017/04/11/meet-paul-frankel-editor-in-chief-at-ipr-antifa-terrorist-and-former-fugitivelnc-regional-alternate/%E2%80%9D

…which someone else re-posted. But Eric’s post has apparently been chucked down the Orwellian memory hole (without a refutation or denial of the serious charges (against Paul Frankel)). ; and “Libertarian Heathen” has also removed the post (without an explanation, perhaps in response to threat of legal action).

My, my, the mystery deepens. Curious minds want to know.

Bjornson @14:03 Who are you talking to? Are you hearing voices in your head?

Eric–you’re a hard man to contact. Do you still have my e-mail?

Tony From Long Island
September 30, 2017 at 13:26

DJ. You need to read things slower. They are giving a single example of a certain bias they see as part of their overall grade. Check other sources with that site and you will see they do the same thing. Slow down.

If you want to keep relying on biased sources . . be my guest. But you will be called out every time.
…………….

LOL. I’m not relying on anything, maybe you should read slower.

The web sites bias is irrelevant. The documentary exists or it doesn’t. Care to address the documentary? But, if you want to keep digging your hole deeper, in the words of the esteemed Tony from Long Island; “be my guest”.

Tony, Gina asked me for iron-clad documentation. Because of the importance of the topic, and my previous work for a language institute he founded, and funds we received from Open Society for Liberty Camps, I rose to the challenge. Though of course, there are other rich guys who benefit from more government and chaos, they contribute also; and there is the vast middle class of trained operatives who form the backbone of the infrastructure of communist insurrection.

In a sense, “Antifa” is like Hezbollah; a hardcore of terrorist activity surrounded by more expensive involvement in charity and other non-violent work. They fit together like pieces in a machine, not all parts are the cutting edge.

I agree, “Black Bloc” is a tactic not a group in any legally recognized sense. But it’s no coincidence that those who adopt Black Bloc tactics and attire, are found among the larger “Antifa” crowd. They sympathize with Antifa goals and hide among them for protection.

For instance, there is the video of the bike lock professor, who mingles with Antifa, launches his attack, then goes back into the crowd where he is relatively anonymous and hard to get to.

“Antifa” itself is a generic term, represented by several front groups for funding, with overlaping groups of activists and no formal membership lists. Originally “Antifa” meant anti-fascist, but now “fascism” is applied to virtually all non-leftists. So this is really a re-play of the battles between Nazi and communist street gangs of the 20’s.

No, this is the one weekend per year that I do inventory at work. It was the same weekend last year that I could. I’ll be here for a few more hours. Probably not tomorrow . . . . . Lots of overtime 🙂

Va-jay-jay: ” . . . .Even worse – muff diving without a dental dam . . . ”

As long as there is no actual “muff” I’m good 🙂 It’s my only pre-requisite!

There are few things I find more irritating than actual muff. Among them is hearing about “false flag” operations from Andy . . . .and now I can add hearing about George Soros from KB. 🙂

Trying to rationalize with KB, on the other hand, is sort of like running into a brick wall repeatedly, on purpose. Not very smart, not very pleasant and not a very good use of time. I should really stop it.

Indeed.

Tony From Long Island
September 29, 2017 at 21:48

My link was only to provide context for your biased link. No more – no less.

DJ

In fact, the article they (fact check) linked was an article on climate change. It had 0 to do with the article link posted.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The link I provided ranks the bias of The new American as a whole. Not just one particular article.
……………

So, your point is; the article wasn’t about a documentary? Because the site is biased, and we all know you aren’t….LOL

Even worse – muff diving without a dental dam. Admittedly a dangerous hobby, especially in dimly lit nightclub ladies rooms after a few drinks, but it has its rewards. Trying to rationalize with KB, on the other hand, is sort of like running into a brick wall repeatedly, on purpose. Not very smart, not very pleasant and not a very good use of time. I should really stop it.

Hey Chris-

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201404/racism/

Kevin B:

I see you don’t challenge the RWNJ level of your “sources.”

There is no such group called “Black Bloc.” It’s a tactic, not a group.

I am a liberal who had never seen or met or knew anyone who did meet the almighty Oz (I mean Soros). Your favorite scapegoat is just a rich old guy.

I generally don’t read posts that are longer than a few paragraphs. It’s a sure symptom of nuttiness. So I am just getting a feel for your level of crazy.

Do you have any hobbies? Walking in nice foliage? Rugby without a helmet? Crocheting? If not, you need to find one.

p.s. Sorry all for the double post earlier.

“what would evidence (of Soros involvement) look like, to you?”

Like actual evidence, rather than taking a few actual links and filling in the rest with your imagination because you have a pre-determined conclusion. It’s possible that Soros could be the James Bond villain you paint him as, but it’s not very likely, and you have done nothing even remotely approaching proving any such case.

“Any source you don’t agree with, you simply dismiss.”

I’ve taken all your alleged evidence into account, and simply noted that there are huge holes that you are filling in with your imagination alone.

“Some of the sources I cited had links to financial reports,
such as those on websites of the organizations or government agencies.
Are those all deliberate forgeries, part of an elaborate false-flag operation?”

No, because none of them show anything like the conclusion you purport they support.

“Do you admit or deny the possibility of my theory?”

Apparently it’s you who does not read carefully. I already said I don’t deny the possibility of your “theory” (actually, it doesn’t rise to the level of theory, conjecture is more like it). I just find it highly unlikely and not supported by the actual facts you have cited.

“How do you know that no “Antifa” person could also be “Black Bloc”?”

That would be absurd. Black Bloc are in fact antifa, which no one disputes. Where the confusion creeps in is that there are many other kinds of antifa who are not violent. People like you then use that confusion to hype up crackpot “theories” such as that Soros directs Black Bloc violence because some of his money indirectly went to a group that organized a demonstration that Black Bloc crashed.

Suppose a fight broke out at a fraternity party and some people were injured. You could maybe blame that on the whole fraternity, although it’s more likely that a few individuals got out of hand. You could then prove that the fraternity receives subsidies from the university, which in turn gets subsidies from the state legislature and congress. From there, would your assumption be that members of the legislature, congress, and the university board of regents are in cahoots to direct drunken fratboys to punch each other? Yes, I suppose that is possible, but it’s highly unlikely and pointing out a few facts about how money flows from the state and federal governments to the university and from the university to the frat doesn’t approach proving any such case. Your hypothesis about Soros is a lot like that. It’s not up to me to disprove that your “theory” is correct, the burden of proof is squarely on you and you have not met it or even come close.

“How do you know that no “Black Bloc” are inspired by RCP rhetoric?”

I have no idea whether they are or not, and apparently neither do you.

“But let us suppose my theory is false; how else do you explain the
small numbers of serious injuries, or fatalities, caused by Black Bloc?
Superior moral character on the part of radical communists and street thugs?”

As compared to nazis, probably so, I would say yes. It’s either that or they are just not as tough. It’s like a gang of schoolyard bullies against a real street gang that kills people. Sure, neither is all that moral, but one is clearly worse than the other. That seems a lot more plausible than some operational control by Soros of black bloc street fighters as part of some grand scheme.

“What is your definition of “Black Bloc”?”

Masked, all-black wearing anarcho-syndicalists who show up at left wing rallies and frequently engage in property destruction and non-defensive but non-lethal violence.

“Does “Black Bloc” have a central command and/or official membership list?”

No.

“Why can’t you see, there is an intelligence, and an organization, behind the direct action?”

There is clearly some element of organization, but I’ve seen no evidence of organization beyond what can be readily learned from easily available online manuals and discussion groups on leaderless resistance tactics. There is nothing whatsoever that comes close to demonstrating they must have some sort of puppetmaster.

“One of the Soros donations was for $28 million. And that was for just one year. I’m not going to post it again unless you pay me. Just scroll back and you will see it, you already responded to it, apparently you responded without carefully reading.”

I read everything you wrote. I don’t have perfect recall, but I did do a search for “$28 million” in this thread just now and found no instances until this latest comment from you. I will not reread the whole thread, sorry. In any case if Soros donated 28 million it would have been to an intermediary fund that goes to all sorts of things, with only a very small portion (50k) going to a group like Refuse Fascism. I don’t believe for a second that Refuse Fascism ended up with $28 million of Soros’ money, or even that they have anything even remotely approaching $28 million in their whole budget.

“RCP does receive Soros funding and they do call for violent revolution.”

Again I have not seen evidence of this direct funding for RCP. It’s true that Refuse Fascism receives Soros funding indirectly, but despite being a front group for RCP, Refuse Fascism does not engage in that kind of rhetoric.

“Soros is like a mafia don who has “buffers”. Unlike the old time mafia, he cannot order violence, but he can encourage violence by subsidizing those who call for violence.”

This conspiracy theory still remains unproven. What it sound like to me instead is that Soros donates an amount – let’s say 28 million – to an intermediary organization that submits a good sounding, generally progressive grant proposal to his foundation. It’s one of many such requests that the Soros foundation funds each year, and from there they probably don’t track the money very closely. In turn this intermediary group makes its own decision to donate 50k to Refuse Fascism which again sounds innocuous when they look at the funding proposal; most likely they do not realize it is an RCP front group. The grant to Refuse Fascism is in turn one of many that this intermediary organization pays out each year. Refuse Fascism stages a demonstration and a variety of different people show up, including Black Bloc, who are a small percentage of the people at the rally but get all the headlines due to their violent and disruptive behavior. It may be possible that some RCP members are also in Black Bloc, but we have no way of knowing this – and it’s vanishingly unlikely that Soros would either.

This scenario seems infinitely more plausible than the picture you paint of Soros as a movie villain/mafia don who secretly directs black bloc street violence.

“The radical communists who are the backbone of Antifa, are calling Trump and just about anybody who is not left, a fascist.”

Trump actually is a fascist. There are plenty of conservatives and libertarians who oppose Trump and Trumpism, though, and they are not fascist.

“If people believe someone is like Hitler, and resonate with calls for violent revolution, you must expect violent attacks.”

RCP only talks about violent revolution. Black bloc actually riots in the streets, but doesn’t kill people. The link between RCP and Black bloc remains unproven, along with several other links on the hypothetical chain between Soros and Black Bloc. Neo-nazis both call for violent revolution and kill people. Putin and Trump actually order killings themselves as well – and unlike your conspiracy theory with Soros, there are no multiple logic leap degrees of separation involved.

My link was only to provide context for your biased link. No more – no less.

DJ

In fact, the article they (fact check) linked was an article on climate change. It had 0 to do with the article link posted.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The link I provided ranks the bias of The new American as a whole. Not just one particular article.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-new-american/

Gina: One of the Soros donations was for $28 million. And that was for just one year. I’m not going to post it again unless you pay me. Just scroll back and you will see it, you already responded to it, apparently you responded without carefully reading.

RCP does receive Soros funding and they do call for violent revolution. Most of their leaders are too old to themselves engage in violence, and in any event, they would likely not do so in order to not endanger their funding.

Soros is like a mafia don who has “buffers”. Unlike the old time mafia, he cannot order violence, but he can encourage violence by subsidizing those who call for violence.

The radical communists who are the backbone of Antifa, are calling Trump and just about anybody who is not left, a fascist. If people believe someone is like Hitler, and resonate with calls for violent revolution, you must expect violent attacks.

Here is a documentary on Antifa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuNKs0RKHtw

Antifa: New Documentary by Trevor Loudon Pulls Off the Mask

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/27020-antifa-new-documentary-by-trevor-loudon-pulls-off-the-mask

“Black bloc” does not have a foundation with that exact title, and does not have or share it’s membership list (so we could see if that overlaps with groups that are provably funded by Soros). There’s a legal reason for that. To establish a tax-exempt foundation, federal approval is necessary…

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2016/12/chroniclethe-irs-has-granted-tax-exempt-status-to-more-than-60-hate-groups.html
“It’s fairly difficult for the IRS to deny or revoke tax-exempt status, unless there’s a call to violence,” said Marcus Owens, a tax lawyer who ran the IRS office that oversees nonprofit groups in the 1990s.

The RCP skates close to that, but since they use political rhetoric and themselves do not engage in violence, they are able to maintain legal status and receive funds tax-exempt.

I documented direct Soros funding of “tiny marxist sects” as well as funding through intermediaries. We are talking about many millions of dollars.

The RCP rhetoric calls for violence and actual revolution. We must acknowledge a linkage between such rhetoric, and action. That’s called “incitement”. For example, there is no proof that Hitler himself used violence, but his rhetoric incited others. Obviously, funding for groups that call for violent revolution, will tend to attract those who engage in violence.

That’s what I figured. Gotta roll with the punches and ignore as best as you can. Speaking of ignore . . . where is the real Andy? He hasn’t infuriated me in a few days now.

I can see why the nasty fake stuff was deleted, but I don’t know why my last post was . . . oh well. . .this thread is crazy . . .

Previously in this thread, I spent an hour researching and posted extensive documentation of Soros funding of far left, including Antifa. At the time, you simply denied that the funding went to “Black Bloc”, despite the extensive documentation I provided, which you did not refute. You appear to claim that to prove my point, I must document funding to “Black Bloc” despite that they do not have any registered organization which could receive funding. You exclude, a priori, any link between Antifa or the far left,(which is what I was talking about) and “Black Bloc”, which apparently does all the violence, while Antifa and the Revolutionary Communist Party cannot do violence.

In other words, your standards and assumptions exclude the possibility of such evidence.

Nevertheless, here is a portion again, with additional comments interleaved:

This documents that AFGJ funds, inter alia, the Refuse Fascism group:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7917
“Refuse Fascism (RF) was established shortly after the November 2016 U.S. presidential election in which Republican Donald Trump defeated Democrat Hillary Clinton. The creators of RF were Revolutionary Communist Party members Carl Dix, Sunsara Taylor (an advisory board member with World Can’t Wait), and Andy Zee (a spokesman for the Manhattan-based Revolution Books shop managed by the Maoist activist C. Clark Kissinger). One of RF’s key “founding initiators” was Cornel West.”
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
(K) Here is Carl Dix, admitting what “V” does not admit, that the original protest was about removal of a statute:
http://revcom.us/a/503/statement-from-carl-dix-from-charlottesville-en.html
“This white supremacist rally was called to prevent a statue of Robert E. Lee, commander of an army that fought to keep slavery in effect, from being removed from a public park”

(K) Here is Carl Dix (ibid), calling for a civil war and the overthrow of an elected government:
“This must be STOPPED, and it’s up to us to STOP it.
What is going on in Charlottesville is a direct outgrowth of the Trump/Pence fascist regime. And it is the outlines of a new civil war in this country. These fascists are serious. And we must wake up and confront them with resistance that is just as serious.”

(K) Elsewhere he said:
http://comradecarl.blogspot.com/
“We in the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP) are organizing right now for an actual revolution, one that overthrows this system and replaces it with a far better one. We have the leadership needed to make this revolution in Bob Avakian, the leader of the RCP”

(K) How could there be an “actual revolution” without violence? And who is “Bob Avakian”? Here he is, advocating revolutionary political violence against non-leftists:
http://www.revcom.us/a/v20/980-89/984/moral3.htm
“Communists recognize that, under the dictatorship of the proletariat, the execution of some people–and in particular those representatives of the old order who have committed outrageous crimes against the people–is positive because it is a necessary part of enabling the masses of people to fully raise their heads, to smash the old state machinery and establish and develop their own forms and organs of political power, and to carry forward the revolutionary transformation of society.”
,,,
“Communists support revolutionary violence and war…the eliminate bourgeois dictatorship”

(K) Pre-WW2, communist gangs took over some German cities. Post-WW2, E. Germany was ruled by the Soviet Union. Stalin murdered more people than Hitler. Generally, we should encourage tyrants to fight each other; though sometimes we must temporarily side with one tyrant over another, to avoid too many fronts in a war.

Fake Andy and fake (I think) Chris also removed. Not sure what’s up with the real Andy, he must be busy as I was not able to get a hold of him on the phone yesterday either.

Did someone remove Daemon Sim’s comment and my reply this morning? If so, why?

Putin is not funding white supremacists in the US. He has done something like that in Europe, along with subsidies to leftists.

Most political violence in the US comes from Jihadists, and neo-nazis are their fellow-travelers. There is a large overlap between neo-confederates and neo-nazis.

The left traditionally opposed Jihadists, for instance, Stalin deported Tatars in Crimea to Siberia. But in response to the west employing the Muslim card, starting with the 19th century Crimean war and continuing to the modern era (most spectacularly, the anti-Soviet operations in Afghanistan), Russia has allied with Shia Jihadists (who oppose Sunni Jihadists).

Antifa is just a replay of the street fights of the 1920s, commies vs. Nazis. The Nazis won most of those street fights, because they were more popular among veterans (who know how to organize and use weapons). Did that make Nazis a greater threat than Stalinism?

Stalin acknowledged that his political control of the Soviet military, weakened their readiness. When he had to, he appealed to Russian nationalism and Orthodox Christianity. Because those are more popular among the masses, than abstract Marxist theory.

When some idiot like Cantwell is in charge of the pro-statute crowd, we cannot reasonably expect them to be well disciplined or controlled. While Antifa is well financed and controlled, by those who are smarter. They don’t armor their fighters, they prefer martyrs. I imagined there are lawsuits and Googled to check, sure enough there are:
http://wtvr.com/2017/09/01/robert-sanchez-turner-lawsuit-against-virginia-leaders/

Has anybody else noticed that Liberty Hangout has done several questionable articles, especially the one supporting Cantwell?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/europe-s-far-right-enjoys-backing-russia-s-putin-n718926

Lots more where that came from.

V: ” . . . . .“While neo-nazis are fewer in number, and are largely self-funded, and armor themselves.”

They too receive funding from a number of sources, including the Putin regime . . . . ”

Are you sure you’re not Andy?

I can’t remember if this knee-slapper from Bjornsen was addressed earlier:

“Soros and others finance them, and the puppetmasters are not stupid, they realize that too much violence will discredit the cause, so they attach strings to their largesse, which is funneled through reliable channels that can be counted on to control their thugs. And, because they want martyrs, they don’t encourage their stooges to wear protective padding. ”

Can anyone making this claim back this up? Again, only a very small part of the funding of organizations that set up the protests at which black bloc shows up comes from Soros, and indirectly at that. And most of the people who show at these protests are peaceful. The black bloc does show up as well but where is the evidence that the protest organizers want them there, much less that they fund them or have any control over them? I see several people here, and many elsewhere, repeating various versions of this claim, but when pressed for evidence all they come up with is that same old stuff about a small portion of the funding of e.g. Refuse Fascism coming from intermediary funds that get a small part of their funding from Soros. That doesn’t even begin to answer the question I am asking.

“While neo-nazis are fewer in number, and are largely self-funded, and armor themselves.”

They too receive funding from a number of sources, including the Putin regime.

Shall we get this back on track already?

Probably too late at this point.

Is Ms. Sonnet a political activist of some sort?

Dunno, but that’s why specialization (division of labor) is such a wonderful thing. I am about as interested in her political views (if any) as I am in, say, Hillary Clinton’s or Angela Merkel’s tits (that is, less than zero). But with the wonderful invention of specialization, each person can focus on what they are good at. Sonnet can provide softcore porn and pop songs while HC, Merkel et al can provide political BS to keep us riled up. You wouldn’t want your barber guiding landing airplanes either, unless he happens to be an air traffic controller as well, and in most cases it would be a bad idea to let an air traffic controller cut your hair.

Or is Daemon Sims just the latest Nathan N manifestation here?

Probably.

Daemon Sims> Breasts are not sexual parts.

Yes, the sky is green, up is down, war is peace, light beer tastes just as good and Hillary Clinton was elected in 2016. Yup.

Ewa is not a porn chick. There are no images or videos of her pussy online. There are no images or videos of her pleasuring men. Just because she appears topless should not make any difference. Breasts are not sexual parts.

Meh, not worth checking out. Jula, that’s what up. She comes from my hometown in Lomza, Poland, population 63,000 which has a ton of white nationalist, neo Nazi as was a TUPAC graffiti everywhere WTF !!!!>??? She was born in 1991. Here are just three of her many spectacular love ballads:

Jula – Za ka?dym razem (Official Video) ——26,298,516 video views

Jula – Nie?miertelni (Oficjalny Teledysk) ——— 4,348,456 video views

Jula – Milion s?ów [Official Music Video] —————13 530 804 wy?wietlenia

Here’s a great new song from Vinnie Paz:

Vinnie Paz feat. Eamon “The Ghost I Used to Be” – Official Video————- 728 602 video views

Ewa is a singer, not just a “big titty eastern bloc” woman

Check out her popular 2005 single: … i R’n’B

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk9P1RbekwM

English translation:

Yeah, Yeah, R&B
Play, play, I won’t stop
This is R&B
I must dance until morning
Rhythm is in R&B
It’s like rocking of the heart
Yeah, Yeah, your turn now
Nothing will be left of us

I’ll give my body, even my soul
I must love someone after all
I am alone on the dance floor with R&B
Later on, you may forgive me
I’ve betrayed you ’cause of desolation
I was alone on the dance floor with R&B

These are my dreams
Night is my girl friend
Days go slowly
My entire future I already know
Record with R&B
That explains everything to me
Leave, even you
Love means nothing

I’ll give my body, even my soul
I must love someone after all
I am alone on the dance floor with R&B
Later, you may forgive me
I’ve betrayed you ’cause of desolation
I was alone on the dance floor with R&B

When it comes to Polish girls, I’m quite partial to Ewa Sonnet ( Beata Kornelia D?browska). I don’t know if she’s married or a virgin, but maybe Chris could pursue her.

“….is the leader of the free world.”

He has abdicated that role. At this point, if the free would has a leader, most observers believe it is most likely Angela Merkel.

I can see why Chris would want a virgin wife, as he may not want her to have anything to compare him to but then again chances are he is a virgin himself. Oh well, good luck with all that. Mental illness is a horrible thing so I am not going to make any more digs at the poor boy. He has a long hard road ahead of him.

Trump isn’t a “Christian Extremist” btw … LOL. He may go to church every once in a while like a good little hypocrite but he basically embodies all of the deadly sins and revels in them. He is literally the opposite of everything Christianity preaches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFjzFa7tgvg @ 3:15-4:00 I think they have him pegged. If you get a chance watch the whole thing.

Another one that has Trump dead to rights is Back to the Future (Biff Tannen was based on Donald Trump, according to the screenwriters).

Paulie, can you approve the other comment I made before the last one?

Me thinks Chris is becoming the next Nathan Norman.

Why is IPR a magnet for schitzos off their meds who like complaining about how women aren’t attracted to batshit crazy people and ranting about the cult they just joined?

Virtually zero entry barrier. What else would you expect?

Why is IPR a magnet for schitzos off their meds who like complaining about how women aren’t attracted to batshit crazy people and ranting about the cult they just joined?

you really do need to be seen by a competent trained specialist

@ 2:50-3:30

My favorite psychiatrist was a Polish lady named Dr. Twardowski. However, she does not accept individuals over the age of 18 into her individual one on one therapy sessions. The last time this psychiatrist treated me was in December 2016, when people are freaking about Trump’s election LOL. During that time I met some very interesting and cool people. I was held against my will at Chicago Behavioral Hospital from November 28th, 2016 to December 14, 2016. On December 15th, 2016 I went back to my Polish Kingdom Hall in the northwest suburb of Chicago containing 75,000 inhabitants called Palatine.

These days, I get all of my psychological and therapeutical advice during the lectures at my Kingdom Hall meetings. So you could say that I have an appointed with a psychiatrist anointed by Jehovah God himself at 239 Illinois Avenue, Palatine Illinois tomorrow, Sunday the 24th of September 2017.

BY THE WAY: Tomorrow is election day in Germany. I am OFFICIALLY endorsing the Green Party of Germany because they are pacifists and they will disband the Germany military. AfD seems to be following in the footsteps of Hilter so that’s BAD NEWS for the Republic of Poland. SAD!

This feels like a real life trip on research chemicals, except I’m completely sober right now. LMAO

Jesus Christ man, oh wait sorry I meant Donald Trump, they’re one in the same person. Trump is LITERALLY the second coming of Jesus Christ.

I do plan on moving back to Poland at some point. Right now, I’m going to watch some Alex Jones and Mark Dice on YouTube. Peace out dude.

In terms of Jehovah’s Witnesses, there is a video of Trump driving into a Kingdom Hall in Brooklyn, and there is all this article:

http://www.snopes.com/jehovahs-witness-russia-trump-asylum/

WASHINGTON, United States – President Donald Trump and Vice President, Mike Pence made a surprise appearance at a kingdom hall of Jehovah’s witnesses in Washington on Thursday, during the Christian Life and Ministry programme.

http://starconnectmedia.com/russias-ban-trump-pence-attend-meeting-of-jehovahs-witness-in-us/

Can anyone please explain WTF Lesiak is babbling about?

I doubt it. My guess is he is off his meds again. Makes Bjornson seem rational by comparison, but that’s setting the bar very low.

Wilt Chamberlain was way taller, and probably had more women than Trump too. Probably not as rich but then he wasn’t born into money, unlike the Donald. What does any of this juvenile shit have to do with Trump being a racist, fascist, authoritarian con artist? Is being tall and rich some kind of excuse for that?

Oh yeah? So 8.5 million of Jehovah Witnesses are also racist, fascist, authoritarian con artists? The girls are ALL virgins until marriage, fornication is strictly forbidden (if you do it and aren’t regretful for your deed you will get disfellowshipped from your congregation), no one uses drugs, no one watches satanic Illuminati evil pornography, no one smokes ciggarrettes, and alchohol is only allowed in moderation.

Yeah, I guess we have to be like Putin (who listened to the Orthodox church and banned Russia’s 175,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses) and ban the 1,231,609 active Jehovah’s Witness publishers in the United States. Yeah, these people are fascists, racist, homophones, xenophobes, they are antisemitic and LITERALLY Hitler. JEHOVAH”S FALSE WITNESSES: Worse than ISIS!!!!

Max Dickstein wrote the following 7 hours ago in a email: “Jehovah’s Witnesses girls: The world’s most sexy, pure, innocent, traditionalist, intelligent and loyal women – Join JW.org and become part of the world’s LARGEST dating organization. Membership is FREE.”

So you are saying that Trump’s poo-flinging tantrums act to impress his submissive beta primates such as Bjornson?

Wilt Chamberlain was way taller, and probably had more women than Trump too. Probably not as rich but then he wasn’t born into money, unlike the Donald. What does any of this juvenile shit have to do with Trump being a racist, fascist, authoritarian con artist? Is being tall and rich some kind of excuse for that?

“…The man is tall, super-wealthy, and very successful in having sex with women. …”

By this standard, America’s most praiseworthy Presidents would clearly include William Clinton and Lyndon Johnson. Clinton multiplied his wealth many times. Johnson gave his wife a TV station.

You mixed up comments. The question about relatability to the original point was regarding the alleged political agenda of gangs. If we are trying to compare the lethality of the far right and far left, how does classifying street gangs as political or not help us?

And as far as Muslims in Europe, it’s not just Arabs and Persians, Afghanis, Pakistanis, Indian Muslims, and many others are also included. In Russia it is Chechens and many others. Hitler may have waxed philosophical about what might have been had Europe converted to Islam over a thousand years earlier, but he did not convert to Islam himself, nor did he encourage any mass conversion to Islam in Europe, and he did not have a practical reality of millions of Muslims or people from majority Muslim nations moving into areas he controlled either. It’s not surprising that his followers today, as well as other white supremacists, are not fond of Muslims in “their” countries.

Is this hostility primarily based on race or religion? Probably some of both, as it is xenophobic in nature. Does it have a white nationalist component? Yes, absolutely.

It’s long since become tiresome and repetitive, but Bjornson keeps making the same mistake as those arguing against him regarding nazis and Muslims. That is, in Hitler’s time there were no significant numbers of Muslims in predominantly White Christian countries. Then as now, nazis support(ed) Muslims vis a vis Jews in the middle east. Then as now, they support Muslims if and when they attack Jews anywhere in the world. The difference is now there has been significant Muslim immigration into Europe and to a lesser extent the US, Canada, Australia etc. Muslim populations from the Caucasus and Central Asia have moved into urban areas throughout Russia. Most of these Muslims are not what white supremacists consider to be white. Therefore, they have developed an oppositional attitude against Muslims in “white” countries. It hasn’t changed their preference for Muslims over Jews though, and they blame the Jews for a conspiracy to bring Muslims into Europe etc.

Again, why is anyone having a hard time understanding this?

Not everything is political. That which pertains directly to government or government laws, is political.

I know this from first-hand experience. The head of a family once took me into his office and showed me a photo of himself with Hubert Humphrey. He and his allied families paid off police and council members and in the process used a law they secretly promoted to eliminate competition. The services they provided were highly regulated and in many cases, operated in a grey area of the law. Eventually this man was prosecuted for going too far, and his former building is now a police station.

The most famous example, was how the mob got JFK elected by rigging ballots in Chicago. Then, when RFK went after them like a berserker, helped gun down them both.

These families were organized according to ethnic lines, Russian, French, Irish, Italian, black, etc. Obviously in the modern era, ethnic ties have loosened and they do tend to cooperate with other ethnic groups.

Some gangs could deal in outright prohibited substances or services, and either way, silver or lead, make a political statement. When government officials are paid off or gunned down, inherently government is involved; and of course, gov’t is (by definition) political.

I agree with you there, Paulie, and have been giving them hell myself.

This is the July 3rd “riot” post by Ryan Ramsey about moving LPCON from NOLA to Vicksburg, in order t NOT diss the confederacy or whatever. It got little support even from his own crew. And then he had all his misfortunes. Haven’t heard about this since. I’m sure he’ll be pulling some number. https://libertarianpartyofbradfordcountyfl.org/2017/07/03/from-nola-to-vicksburg-the-libertarian-party-must-stand-on-principle/

His personal page was banned from facebook but he still has Ryan RamseyTwo to keep on top of him. And then there is this strategy website: https://libertarianheathen.com/ I think it used to have NOLA thing; or maybe it was on of his OTHER sites…

George Phillies, thanks for the info on the Chinese debt.

” call in the debt that the US owes them”

United States bonds and Treasury Bills are not callable. Period. Full Stop.

And if they were callable, which they are not, they are payable *in dollars*, which curiously we are able to print as needed. Note that there would be no inflationary effect, because the $3 trillion of bonds (totally fluid) in Chinese hands would simply be replaced by an equal dollar amount of Benjamins and Tubmans, so the fluid money supply in circulation would not be changed.

the Chinese could try selling these on the open market, but that would tend to crash the price, to the great profit of other people. Also, the Chinese would then find it very difficult to make payments in dollars, because they would not have dollars with which to pay. As it stands, Chinese dollar holdings in recent years have been falling fairly quickly.

Kevin S Bjornson wrote:

Self-identified counter-Jihadist neo-nazis tend to be
—outliers or individuals not connected with the larger neo-Nazi movement,
–or these could be considered as insincere efforts to exploit current trends for opportunistic reasons,
–or they maybe fascists but not neo-nazi.

No true Scottsman…

“And why would the US or Israel have any right – morally or under international law – to bomb Iranian refineries?”

I guess that question never enter’s Bjornson’s head. Neither apparently does the issue of how much Islamic terrorism against the US and US targets overseas may increase. He has never come up with any good answers as to how the US bombing and/or occupying majority Muslim nations will put a stop to global Islamic terrorism when those terrorists can organize just about anywhere, including in Western nations. Individual terrorist groups can have their leaders assassinated and their base of operations destroyed but new ones just spring up.

“The Chinese have several amusing retaliations, ”

I suppose they could call in the debt that the US owes them, although that would not be good for their trade with the US going forward.

“By that standard, everything is political. Wiping your ass w/ a piece of regulated toilet paper apparently becomes a political statement.”

That might explain a lot of Bjornson’s comments, come to think of it.

“Yea, where did that stray thought praising Trump’s sex life come from?”

From the diseased mind of a lunatic, especially given how many of Trump’s conquests both allegedly and admittedly come about through sexual harassment and in some cases perhaps even outright rape.

“…very successful in having sex with women.”

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/02/world/the-tyrant-mao-as-told-by-his-doctor.html?pagewanted=all&mcubz=0

Mao Tse-Tung was too.

“Mao Zedong, China’s “Great Helmsman” whose brilliance, the official doctrine insists, led a vast nation to restored greatness, was actually an irritable, manipulative egotist incapable of human feeling who surrounded himself with sycophants and refused even to be treated for a sexually transmitted disease, though he knew he was spreading it to the numerous young women who shared his bed.”

…

“Mao was a man who had no friends,” Dr. Li said. “He saw everybody as a subject, a slave. The mistake of those who got purged was to see themselves as equal to him. He wanted everybody to be subservient.”

…

“Some of the descriptions in the book, minus the numerous details on Mao’s very active sex life, have appeared in other memoirs, especially those concerning Mao’s imperial way of life, his residence and swimming pool in Zhongnanhai, his chronic insomnia and the very odd hours that he kept, as well as the atmosphere of sycophancy that surrounded him. But nobody before has provided anything like the full, elaborately detailed portrait that Dr. Li presents in his book.”

“Here’s a picture of the daily life of a man who has absolute power, and the fascinating thing is how absolute power sort of deranges the possessor of it, so that the boundary between fantasy and reality is obliterated because there’s nothing to check his will,” Professor Nathan said. “He was insulated in his own cocoon while everybody danced to his whims, and that has a lot to do with the tremendous disasters Mao wrought on the country as a whole because he was insulated from reality. His fantasies became reality.”

…

“The most salacious elements of Mao’s career, in Dr. Li’s portrait, certainly involve Mao’s sexual life, which reached openly lascivious proportions in a country where sexual license was rigorously prohibited for almost everybody else.”

…

Mao, Dr. Li says, used women for three purposes, the first and most important having to do with his pleasure. At Zhongnanhai, and wherever Mao traveled, Dr. Li writes, there were dance parties — this at a time when ballroom dancing in China was deemed bourgeois and actively discouraged. Young women from cultural troupes or from the Communist Party secretariat, women who Dr. Li says were “selected for their looks, their talent and their political reliability,” came to the dances and Mao commonly chose one or more of them to be entertained in his room, or in his special train, or in the guesthouses where he stayed when on one of his many “national inspection tours.”

…

Dr. Li writes. “At the height of the Cultural Revolution in the 1960’s, he and Jiang Qing were sexually estranged, but Mao had no problems with the young women he brought to his bed — their numbers increasing and their average ages declining as Mao attempted to add years to his life according to the imperial formula.”

Once, Dr. Li recalls, Mao sent him one of his sexual partners, a young woman who had come down with trichomonas vaginalis, which is sexually transmitted. Dr. Li treated her and several others who got the disease.

“The young women were proud to be infected,” he writes. “The illness, transmitted by Mao, was a badge of honor, testimony to their close relations with the Chairman.”

Mao himself showed no symptoms of the disease, though he was clearly a carrier of it, Dr. Li said. When Dr. Li suggested that he take some antibiotic to protect his sexual partners, Mao told Dr. Li: “If it’s not hurting me, then it doesn’t matter. Why are you getting so excited about it?”

…

Sounds a lot like Trump.

Or take Genghis Khan…he has more known descendents than any other man in human history so it sounds like he was very successful in having sex with women.

Is that really the way freedom-lovers should judge virtue?

Don’t criticize the likes of Mao, Trump and Genghis Khan lest you be accused of being jealous of how much they got laid?

And that’s just one of Bjornson’s many howlers.

“his opinions are not worth a great deal.”

Yeah. So much crackpot crankery, so little time.

Bjornsen believes in the deduce superstition, so his opinions are not worth a great deal. I believe in Liberty, not meaningless philosophical word-trimming.

The Chinese have built another aircraft carrier. Claims that aircraft carriers are easy to sink, well, there is some controversy on this point.

The Chinese might or might not issue a few MANPADS to the Taliban. A few would not be a major issue. They would primarily be used against NATO aitrcraft trying to reach Kabul. Selling or giving large numbers to the Iranians, who are not terrorists, is another issue. Sending them to the Lebanese Hezbollah, who tend to be fairly careful about attacking military targets, is also possible.

Why would the Egyptian government be perturbed by an attack on another Islamic nation? Because they are not idiots. They also realize that American governments are pathologically attached to the Israelis. Eliminating border controls on Gaza costs them less than nothing, benefits a million people, and creates issues.

Trump can be criticized on rational grounds, but most of the hyperventilating hyperbole hales from psychological motivations. A TDS (not “total dissolved solids”, but “Trump Derangement Syndrome”).

The man is tall, super-wealthy, and very successful in having sex with women. Starting when he was in military academy, where he brought a continuing stream of fine-looking young ladies to his dorm room. Then he ran beauty pageants. Now he is married to a much younger, beautiful ex-model. Perhaps this instead should be called “Trump envy”.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/02/29/heres-what-demagogues-like-trump-do-to-their-countries-when-they-take-power/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.71afcc65dba4

Also, they have noticed it for at least a year now:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/09/02/where-did-donald-trump-get-his-racialized-rhetoric-from-libertarians/?utm_term=.84965fc5e646

A. Barton Hinkle column: The new Red Scare

excerpt

To begin with, there is the undeniable existence of a clear and present danger. The racist right’s identitarianism is antithetical to America’s most cherished values, and opposing the alt-right is the morally correct position to take. The threat must be countered at every turn.

At the same time, the wholesome and necessary opposition to bigotry has started to metastasize into something less healthy.

http://www.richmond.com/opinion/our-opinion/bart-hinkle/a-barton-hinkle-column-the-new-red-scare/article_2213fc8b-5d55-523a-bebb-568bdb45507a.html

Intelligent and fascinating discussions like these is why IPR is the second best website on the interwebs. If I’m allowed at the LP Illinois state convention March 2nd-3rd, 2018 and granted a press pass, I hope you guys will consider publishing my report. I’m trying to get the ban on me from LP events listed. If someone has a direct line to Justin Tucker, the chair of the Chicago LP, please let him know. As you all know, I’ve had a history of mental health issues including some severe manic episodes…however I’m working on myself and I’m now free of all drugs, cigarettes alcohol as well as the world’s most evil and vile drug – pornography- and I will get baptized as a Jehovah Witness in the next few months.

So yeah – I don’t want to cause any more problems and post unhinged things for the world to see. Should I get angry for whatever reason, I’m just going to turn off my PC.

Denouncing free speech is not suppressing it.

Denouncing groups (which of course Trump is doing in an obvious disingenuous manner) is not suppressing them.

Saying that white supremacists are douchebag scum is not suppressing them.

Noting unfortunate about it at all.

I am a human being who lives in the United States.

I do not live in, nor was I born in Europe.

The only “heritage” I am concerned with is American heritage, which, happily, is very hard to describe because it is constantly changing as more and more diverse human beings add to it.

European culture is an important part of ours. “White European Heritage” makes it a lot clearer that what is being referred to is race.

“I thought we were talking about drug dealers. Obviously, I don’t dispute the existence of street gangs. But I do dispute that the typical drug dealer is a member of the bloods or the crips.”

The way we got into the discussion as you correctly traced it was “Bjornson tried to lump in the drug trade w/ left-wing violence through a not so clever end-around of drug trade ==black street gangs===black nationalists” … he then seemed to claim that black and Latino street gangs have a political agenda vis a vis drug laws, whatever that agenda is. Personally I don’t think they have much of an agenda other than making money, mutual protection, status, friendship/surrogate family, and getting laid. The things most people join any kind of gang for. I don’t see anything that makes them left wing or right wing. But if we have to classify them as one or the other I think one or two people pointed out that most of the people they kill, maim, rob and terrify are non-white so let’s classify them as right wing.

For that matter are black nationalists really left wing? Their views on everything from gender roles to drugs in their community to “race mixing” to Jews are a lot more like white nationalist views on all those same topics than like some progressive leftist agenda.

To sum up, none of the groups doing a lot of murder are really left wing but there are some (not all) antifa who engage in violence; however it’s not lethal violence like what the far right, various racial nationalists and jihadis engage in. If someone wants to throw in street gangs in there, I don’t think they belong in this discussion at all, but even if they do they are still not left wing so it’s not a counter to any of the above.

“No, it’s not. Not the dying part. You are watching too much TV. ”

I don’t watch TV. My information in this regard is both first hand and subsequently researched. We were talking about street gangs. Bangin on Wax came out in 1993… see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloods_%26_Crips#Members Just for example of how people ended up.

“Keep in mind I’m not talking about extended philosophic debate on the subject(rare). This is trade where the less that is said, the better. Also keep in that a lot dealers are users or ex-users. And most of them had regular jobs and/or businesses.”

It may be a different socioeconomic background of people we are talking about. They do both exist.

“You just don’t announce one day I’m going to be a drug dealer. ”

That’s true. Around where I grew up you typically started at age 8-10 as a lookout.

“Other than the narcs, people who are staunch drug warriors typically don’t wade far into that graph. ”

I don’t think gang and cartel members tend to be staunch drug warriors. At the higher levels maybe because they realize that legal drugs would be a lot less profitable. At the bottom levels far less likely that they care. They are just trying to survive and prosper, not be political activists.

“And it would be rare for the amount of money we are usually talking about to sway someone over like. Very few people in the trade become kingpins.”

You don’t have to be a kingpin to realize you might be shit out of luck if the corner store took over selling your product. Maybe you are talking about people who deal on the side. A lot of people don’t have that luxury. Remember the way we got into this discussion tangent was Bjornson’s repeated shoe horning of street gangs into discussion about antifa and white supremacist violence. Not your stockbroker who buys coke by the ounce and deals it by the gram and eight ball to financial district buddies.

I would not advocate an alliance with Russia in order to defeat ISIS. I was just pointing out that Russia is not allied to the Jihadis, and in fact modern political Jihad got a big boost with the anti-Soviet jihad in Afghanistan.

Russia is attacking ISIS in Syria, but also using the ISIS threat to justify attacking any movement opposed to the Assad regime. The bitter effect of this has been to drive other anti-Assad groups into tactical alliances with ISIS. And Russia won’t split with Iran – the alliance with Iran is a big part of why Russia fights in Syria.

As for advocating higher oil prices in order to make sure that frackers profit – fracking has serious effects that are not good – including promoting earthquakes. I live in California and don’t want to do anything to promote earthquakes. And why would the US or Israel have any right – morally or under international law – to bomb Iranian refineries?

Mexican cartels do not control the marijuana trade in California. Doubtless they participate in it, but in the 48 years I have smoked marijuana, California home grown has replaced Mexican and even Colombian marijuana – California home grown has been dominant in this state since the late 1980s.

Growers in Humboldt County did oppose Proposition 64, apparently fearing increased competition. And many medical marijuana dispensaries in California opposed Proposition 64, also fearing they would lose customers to recreational pot shops.

My points in each issue is that yes, sometimes things happen as commenters have stated it, but there are often other trends, which sometimes are stronger.

As for Nazis and Jihadists, I was referring to contemporary neo-Nazis, who do not necessarily model all their behavior on their antecedents in the Third Reich. In France, The National Front has built its growth on opposition to Muslim immigration, and the Alteranativ fuer Deutschland also gets support from opposition to Muslim immigration, and of course Donald Trump.

“Here’s an interesting recent news item, indicating there is as-yet non-lethal violence from the left in suppression of political thought”

Was anyone arguing otherwise? I think every commenter above has acknowledged as much, as did the original article. Why does this need re-emphasis? The only counterpoint was that the violence on the other side actually is lethal, and often enough to constitute a trend as well as an explicit part of the fascist ideology and the racist quest for “racial holy war.”

“Appreciating European culture does not show that you are a Nazi – quite the contrary, as the well-documented Nazi attacks on culture show.”

Of course you are correct. There are many achievements of European culture that are worth admiring. However, many of the alt right dolts and white supremacists use “western civilization” and “European culture” as euphemisms for “white people,” just as they sometimes say zionist when context makes it apparent that they actually mean Jew. That does not, however, mean that everyone who uses those phrases means those things – context is important.

For example when people say the US needs to “protect and preserve its White European heritage.”….I don’t think they are talking about classical music or Shakespeare. Not even Greek mythology, unless by Greek we mean Golden Dawn.

“Socialism is to be opposed because it is oppressive and it does lead to poverty and loss of freedom. But socialist states do fight terrorists, and usually are more brutal and less committed to due process. The alliance of Russia and the Assad regime in Syria are brutally oppressing ISIS along with everyone else is Syria, and may wipe out the Syrian part of the caliphate as they re-establish Assad’s total dictatorship.”

That’s all true, but as presented above is a non-sequitur. Russia these days is not socialist, although it could reasonably be described as kleptocratic, oligarchic, crony capitalist or nascently fascist.

I applaud comments by Starchild, indicating he may yet be a worthy successor to the original Starchild of the sixties anarcho-capitalist movement. and also to Carol for her factual comments, and a few others.

Gene had some nice observations. I have not denied that some neo-nazis have not received the memo, originating from Hitler, to ally with Jihadists. Of course Hitler viewed Arabs as inferior, as they are not fully European. Yet he got the idea for genocide from the Turkish massacre of white Armenians.The Japanese are not European at all. Yet he still allied with them. and so on.

Self-identified counter-Jihadist neo-nazis tend to be
—outliers or individuals not connected with the larger neo-Nazi movement,
–or these could be considered as insincere efforts to exploit current trends for opportunistic reasons,
–or they maybe fascists but not neo-nazi.

The similarities between the Nazi and Jihadist movements cannot be denied, even though I acknowledge they are separate movements and might have internal squabbles. Much as Hitler expressed dissatisfaction with Mussolini, or pissed off the Japanese by his temporary alliance with Stalin.

Here’s an interesting recent news item, indicating there is as-yet non-lethal violence from the left in suppression of political thought:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-baked-alaska-stabbing-20170620-story.html

Russia is not today a socialist state, they are authoritarian with some fascist tendencies. We cannot reasonably expect that all counter-Jihadist must be libertarian, in fact if we relied upon self-identified libertarians for that purpose we would be limited to the size of, say, the Abraham Lincoln battalion. With a greater number of self-identified libertarians sympathizing or excusing the Jihadist side. Wholly insufficient to the task. So yes, we must cooperate with Russia in suppressing Islamic State, and offer incentives for Russia to break it’s alliance with Iran, after Islamic State has been destroyed.

In any event, the price of oil must be increased, to avoid bankrupting a big chunk of the US fracking industry. If the US or Israel destroyed Iran’s oil export facilities, that would lead to a spike in oil prices, benefiting the US and Russia.

I re-iterate, a few idealists in the illegal drugs trade do support legalization, in fact the original legalization effort in Oregon was funded and organized by such. Yet the really heavy-hitters cynically realize where their bread is buttered, and pay-off government officials, in order to continue to exploit prohibition. Either way, they are making a political statement, in support or opposition to prohibition, or some combination thereof.

Current state initiatives are not really legalization, but are a crony-capitalist takeover of the industry, similar to what caused the Whiskey Rebellion.

“Looking at reports on Berkeley protests vs. Ben Shapiro speech (where face masks and weapons banned), I think cops have gotten the message they have to separate the groups, even if it costs $600,000 just for that ONE protest.”

Agreed. Charlottesville police were amateur hour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

Learn something every day.

MSM on US: [ — ] MSM on Russia: [ ——— ]

RT.com on US: [ ————————– ] RT.com on Russia: [ — ]

dL,

just to clarify, I was being a bit jokey with the “I told you so” comment. I was under the (proper) impression that most people around here already knew what that poll revealed.

I’m not sure if I understand what you are telling me about my overton window statements, but if I take it the way I think you mean, I will refer to what RCapozzi has said here previously: I don’t mind being at the edges of the Window. I mind being on Mars in a purely theoretical house when the voting populace is back here on Earth in a real house with a real frame of reference. I don’t think being here in the real world means we are automatically flirting with paleo or alt-reich takeover or something. In fact, I think the opposite: being in the theoretical world makes that more likely.

Kevin S Bjornson writes (September 15, 2017 at 16:01), “Ramsi was born in Venezuela to Palestinian parents, and after his firebombing, said “I did this for you, God!'”

And God took off his fine mask, which he had heretofore worn in Ramsi’s presence, when the man’s life still lay in front of him, and finally showing his true hideous Devil’s face, leered at the terrorist and said, “Thank you for your support!”

Yes, of course, street gangs that finance themselves through sales of illegal drugs, do not really want drugs legalized. But that is a political statement (that they don’t want drugs legalized). They are making money from prohibition, just as the cops are. Which explains why so many cartels are paying off politicians and cops, and why police so closely resemble a mafia.

The left has a bloody history, even worse than Nazism. Stalin and his fellow-commies have murdered many more millions. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, they have lost the commanding heights of power, but still there is potential for another massacre: N. Korea.

The fall of the Third Reich discredited Nazism, but the fall of the Soviet Union did not discredit communism to the same extent (among mass media and academia). The left is in a more powerful position to influence the young, which explains the rise of Antifa.

Soros and others finance them, and the puppetmasters are not stupid, they realize that too much violence will discredit the cause, so they attach strings to their largesse, which is funneled through reliable channels that can be counted on to control their thugs. And, because they want martyrs, they don’t encourage their stooges to wear protective padding. While neo-nazis are fewer in number, and are largely self-funded, and armor themselves.

Islamists, and their fellow travelers the neo-nazis, now have replaced the Soviet Union as the greatest immediate threat. Though in the long-term, socialism is a more widespread, diffused threat, and hurts efforts by the civilized world to extinguish Islamists. Because of harm to the economy.

It’s actually much worse than that. Those are the percentages for the total population. The percentages among only those respondents identified as white were much higher. Check out the cross tabs.

OK, so Islamists are right wing and so are nazis. That’s almost all of your terrorist attacks right there, especially if you also include anti-abortion extremists which leaves only about 2% of terrorist attacks coming from the left wing – and that’s if you want to stretch the definition of left wing to include black supremacists.

I don’t understand why street gangs are brought up here. Are they right wing? Left wing? What are they? I don’t see any ideological component to gang warfare. Selling contraband is not making a statement that drugs should be legal. If anything, people who make their living selling contraband do not want drugs to be legal as it would mess up their profits. You can make an exception to that for some hippies selling a little bit of drugs to keep themselves in drugs and get by, but when you are talking about street gangs which make a whole bunch of money off dope they are not going to be so idealistic about legalization. So no, they are not “anti-prohibition” …Al Capone probably wasn’t either.

Kevin’s Wikipedia link lists at least 11 right wing attacks since 2010, depending on how you define right wing. I am including white supremacist in that definition.

I thought we were talking about, which group causes the most damage to Americans? For every victim of a terrorist or military attack, there are attempts to justify the attacks; but that’s a separate issue.

I unequivocally repudiate both left and right, as well as non-ideological non-political force-initiation.

Statistics indicate, Jihadist groups are responsible for the vast majority of terrorist attacks, worldwide, from 2000-2016:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/592630/terror-groups-most-attacks-2000-to-2014/

Leftist groups are a distant second. No right-wing group has done terrorist attacks in this time period, and unaffiliated individuals are in last place and have done a statistically insignificant number.

Broken down by country, all statistically significant numbers are in Islamic areas (or India, where Muslims come into conflict with Hindus):
https://www.statista.com/statistics/236983/terrorist-attacks-by-country/

Concerning terrorist attacks in the US, this shows them all:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States#2000.E2.80.9309

However, when they break down into motivation, most of the Islamic-inspired ones are not included in their category “Islamist Extremism”. For instance, this list does not show any for the year 2000, but if you go back into their over-all list, several attacks are shown that are Islamist-inspired, such as the Synagogue attack by Mazin Assi and co-conspirators, to “strike a blow in the Middle East conflict between Israel and Palestine”; and Ramsi Uthman, who fire-bombed Temple Beth El. Ramsi was born in Venezuela to Palestinian parents, and after his firebombing, said “I did this for you, God!

Since 2000, there have been only 5 attacks by white supremacists. The body count for all such attacks comes to 20. While the body count from 9/11 alone is about 150 times that.

Clearly the left causes more body counts, but most are not terrorist attacks. For instance, the US body count from the Vietnam war is about 50,000.

When the 20 who died at the hands of white supremacists are weighed against those who died in 9/11 alone and those who died at the hands of communists, the number “20” is insignificant.

“Unfortunately, bombast is very often DIShonest.”

no doubt about that.

and 100% name recognition!

AD, We already have a president who knows nothing about policy. Hard to imagine someone being less informed on policy than DJT!

“I read the book, and didn’t find it to be particularly boring or repetitive, nor did I see anything that urged violence or anything that would legitimately undermine the safety of jails or prisons. ”

I can concede that Kokesh must have some level of persuasive ability and a magnetic personality, and maybe is a good activist, but the book clear demonstrates his limited knowledge of policy, lack of experience in electoral politics, and what a disaster of a presidential candidate he would be. He’d not be interested in learning policy, and any interview he did would go off the rails quickly. (not that he has any chance of winning the nomination).

Andy:

Adam Kokesh’s book is only 100 pages in length, and I think it is only available in softcover, so I doubt anyone could use it to smuggle weapons.

Andy, did you actually READ my whole post? I never said THIS book would be used to smuggle weapons. I was giving a generalized explanation of how Media Review works in correctional facilities.

Anthony, have you actually read Adam’s book, or are you just talking out of your ass again?

I’d be willing to bet that Adam Kokesh’s book has turned more people to liberty than Gary Johnson’s book has.

Andy Jacobs: “Adam Kokesh tried to distribute his book, Freedom, to prisons, and it was officially banned, by the US Justice Department I believe. I am not sure if it was banned in jails though.”

Did it advocate killing guards?

I’ve read it, and the ban seems silly to me. It’s anti monopoly government, but not in any violent way. As either I or someone else said earlier, all the different county and state jails and prisons make their own decisions about what they ban and what they don’t, so Adam was only talking about the federal system. It’s possible that some other jails and prisons ban his book also but there’s no centralized registry of these things.

Andy Jacobs writes (September 7, 2017 at 19:52):

“Adam Kokesh tried to distribute his book, Freedom, to prisons, and it was officially banned, by the US Justice Department I believe. I am not sure if it was banned in jails though.

At an appearance in Berkeley, Adam related a great quote from some government body, it might have been DOJ, or perhaps the Federal Bureau of Prisons, in relation to that ban. It was something along the lines of, “The entire contents of this book are a threat to the good order and safety of this institution.”

Gene’s comments remind me of the “fair-taxers”, who assume that opposition to it must stem from ignorance. I have read the article, “The Jewish Problem in America”. The title is not the only problem (he repeated the phrase in his text), but in his other comments, which, while subtle, are troubling. Such as:

“In the Islamic domain, while on religious grounds the Jew may not have been exactly a popular idol, he quite clearly did not suffer from Moslem fanaticism as an Occidental Christian would have done.”

(K) Apparently Nock chooses to be ignorant of the pogroms of Jews in Israel, to which the Christians were not subject (to nearly the same extent). True, there was the Armenian massacre, but there were Armenian Jews subjected to the same massacre.

“I never saw or heard of her [the Jewish girl he spent a few days with] afterwards, nor tried to do either. I have often thought, however, of what would happen if some rash and personable young Occidental fell in love with her—no one could help doing that—and married her. If he were sensitive, how distressed and dissatisfied he would be as he became aware of the vast areas of her consciousness from which he was perforce shut out forever; and on the other hand, if he were too insensitive to feel that he was shut out from them, how intolerable her life with him would be.

[K] The majority of European Jews in America inter-marry with gentiles, and live a happy marriage. Such as Ivanka Trump.

“For centuries the Jew was a herdsman in Southern Palestine, warlike and violent as all primitive herdsmen are, ‘truly indomitable fellows,’ as Mr. Mencken says, ‘and neither the dull hopelessness of the city proletariat nor the yet more dull helplessness of the tamed yokel was in them.’ Their subsequent experiences throughout the Western world have been uniformly of the kind best calculated to confirm and perpetuate in them their primitive qualities, and among these the quality of manners. That is the whole story.”

[K] Jews are probably less primitive than the average American. Mencken also had a problem with Jews.

“I shall mention only one more complication which is seriously disabling; it arises from the peculiar and suspicious sensitiveness which the Jew has developed, whereby he is prone to see enmity where there is none, and even more regularly to attribute dislike or distrust to a cause which does not exist. As a Jewish writer says of his people, ‘They tend to nurse the obsession that the only reason for the slightest rebuff from which they may suffer in business, social life, or any other activity, is a causeless anti-Jewish prejudice, quite unjustified by anything in their personal behavior as individuals.’ Or as an acquaintance once put it to me in more colloquial terms, ‘A Jew always thinks you dislike him because he is a Jew. It never seems to occur to him that you might possibly dislike him because he’s offensive.’

“In my own case, in discussing Jewish affairs with Jews, I have often observed that instead of taking what I say they take what they think I say, and then add to that a wholly gratuitous string of what they think I mean, so that the total product has no resemblance whatever to anything that is, or has been, in my mind. The intelligent Occidental perfectly understands this peculiar sensitiveness, and knows how it came about, but the Occidental mass-man does not; and this puts innumerable exasperating difficulties, usually trifling in themselves, in the course of his relations with Jews.* By consequence, therefore, it makes uphill work for the social architect who undertakes to design a durable modus vivendi between the two peoples.”

“* ‘In one of New York’s clubs the other day I heard a man put this point very well. He said, ‘When we are playing Kelly pool downstairs, if A (an Irishman] wins a big pot on an awful fluke, I can say, “Isn’t that a dirty Irish trick?” If B does it, I can say, “Isn’t that just what you’d expect from a conniving, swindling Massachusetts Yankee?” But if C does it, I can’t say, “That’s a dirty Jewish trick,” for it would hurt him -it really would – and everybody in the room would feel uncomfortable and a little bit shocked to hear me say it.’—Author”

[K] The above passages clearly show, Nock is in denial, and accuses Jews of paranoia.

This article is not the only troubling writing to come from the hand of Nock. He has made other troubling comments about Jews elsewhere, including his The Memoirs of a Superfluous Man”, which I recently finished reading.

Such as this gem, from his Journal of Forgotten Days:
31 August—Leaving for New York today, in great dissatisfaction, to be tied to the public libraries, which are infested with Jews, Turks, infidels, and heretics, such as orthodox members of the Church of England are supposed to pray for in the Good Friday collect.

20 September—The Jewish holiday Yom Kippur yesterday closed New York up as tight as a white-oak knot. One would say there was not a hundred dollars’ worth of business done in all the town. It sets one’s mind back on Hitler’s policy. The question is not what one thinks of it as an American, but what one would think of it if one were a German in Germany, where the control of cultural agencies is so largely in the hands of Jews—the press, drama, music, education, etc.—and where there is, or was, a superb native culture essentially antithetical. Is one’s own culture worth fighting for? I think so. I think I would fight for it.”

[K] Nock voted for president only once, and wrote in Jefferson Davis, the Confederate president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Jay_Nock#Anti-Semitism_and_disillusionment_with_democracy
“When Albert Jay Nock started The Freeman magazine in 1920, The Nation offered its congratulations to a new voice in liberal journalism. Nock rebuffed the gesture in a letter to the magazine’s owner, Oswald Villard, in which he wrote, “I hate to seem ungrateful, but we haint liberal. We loathes liberalism and loathes it hard.”‘

[K] In 1920, “Liberalism” still meant what we now describe as “classical Liberalism”.

William F. Buckley, the pretentious hatchet man, who allowed Whitaker Chambers to slander Ayn Rand (in the pages of his self-funded National Review), had an interesting father and upbringing.

https://www.thenation.com/article/squire-willie/
“Father Will–a third-generation Irish-American whose own father had been a prosperous merchant politician in Duval County, Texas, a county of notoriously corrupt politics–held all politicians and the democratic process in contempt. He believed Nazi Germany much less harmful than Communist Russia. One of Will Sr.’s favorite authors, Albert Jay Nock, became a personal friend and was often in the Buckley household when Bill was growing up. Along with being anti-democratic, Nock was, at least in his later years, “virulently anti-Semitic.” Young Buckley fell under Nock’s spell and never quit quoting him. Another of Will Sr.’s friends, Merwin K. Hart, was one of America’s most notorious anti-Semites for three decades.”

I don’t think you are any of those things.

Governor Johnson was not trying to win a coffee house debate among libertarian intelligentsia.

If he made any mistake, it was to underestimate how silly doctrinaire libertarians and their questions can be. This is why, at the Saturday night debate in Orlando, he said something to the effect of “I’ve already answered that question” when asked about it again. At the Stossel debate, he should have cut the whole thing short from the get-go by indicating he was only going to answer the question once, so listen up. Then he could have moved on and the angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin libertarians could go back to their virtual coffee klatch debates about Zoroastrians and the cakes they want baked.

yes, I recall that response. More detail on that hubbub:

https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/posts/10153109454754364

“In a nationally-televised debate among three of the Libertarian candidates for President, a highly unlikely hypothetical question was raised about whether a Jewish baker has the right to refuse to serve a Nazi sympathizer asking for a “Nazi cake”. I responded to that question in the legal context of whether a public business has the right to refuse to serve a member of the public, as distasteful as it might be. The simple answer to that question is, whether all like it or not, U.S. law has recognized the principle of public accommodation for more than 100 years: The principle that, when a business opens its doors to the public, that business enters into an implied contract to serve ALL of the public. Further, when that business voluntarily opens its doors, the owners voluntarily agree to adhere to applicable laws and regulations — whether they like those laws or not.

To be clear, anti-discrimination laws do not, and cannot, abridge fundamental First Amendment rights. I know of no one who reasonably disagrees. In the highly unlikely event that a Nazi would demand that a Jewish baker decorate a cake with a Nazi symbol, the courts, common sense, and common decency — not to mention the First Amendment — all combine to protect that baker from having to do so. It’s not an issue, except when distorted for purposes of gotcha politics.

Does a public bakery have to sell a cake to a Nazi? Probably so. Does that bakery have to draw a swastika on it? Absolutely not. And that’s the way it should be.”

FWIW, (and you can chose to believe me or not), I joked with Governor Johnson in Orlando about the ludicrousness of the question Petesen pushed him on, and he laughed and said its only among Libertarians that he would get such an “out-there” question. Note the use of highly-unlikely twice.

As usual, Libertarians take these things to an n-th degree that would never occur in the real world.

No he wouldn’t. His “Bake The Cake” answer was a pragmatic political one, not one borne of absolute adherence to a principle. Obviously, under that rationale, he’s not going to force a Jewish baker to do any such thing, being that it would be as suicidal politically as answering the Bake the Cake question with an absolute defense of property rights.

Actually yes, he did say in the Stossel debate that he would extend the same argument to a Jew being asked to bake a cake for nazis.

https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/04/gary-johnson-jewish-bakers-should-be-forced-to-bake-nazi-cakes/

Petersen pushed Johnson on the issue and asked whether he felt Jewish bakers should be forced to bake wedding cakes for Nazi customers. Stossel directed the question to Johnson, who replied “that would be my contention, yes.”

I read the article by Albert Jay Nock on The Jewish Problem that Kevin Bjornson linked to. The problem that Albert Jay Nock exposes is the problem of anti-Semitism. He warns that an economic downturn could unleash brutal attacks against Jews, because of the economic ignorance of the average person, and the desire to look for scapegoats. Neither Albert Jay Nock nor The Atlantic are supporting anti-Semitism.

Too many people, including many libertarians, think that if they read the title of an article or a book, they can understand and critique the view of the writer. But you actually have to look at what was written to make a reasonable analysis.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1941/06/the-jewish-problem-in-america/306268/

Concerning which group is more responsible for violence at Charlottesville:

We can’t rely upon statistics on which ones went to hospitals. The pro-statute crowd appears to have better protective gear, and are probably more reluctant to seek hospital attention (due to macho stoicism).

All we can do, is read a collection of eyewitness reports. Here they are:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesville-witnesses-20170815-story.html

Charlottesville Daily Progress photographer Ryan Kelly: “I hitched a ride with my editor downtown, and I started wandering the mall. There were groups on both sides scattered. There were a few small fights that broke out from time to time. People were throwing stuff at each other. A few people were beating on each other.”

BuzzFeed News reporter Blake Montgomery: “Most white supremacist and Nazi groups arrived armed like a paramilitary force — carrying shields, protective gear, rods and, yes, lots of guns, utilizing Virginia’s loose firearm laws. They used militarized defensive maneuvers, shouting commands at one another to ‘move forward’ or ‘retreat,’ and would form a line of shields or a phalanx — it’s like they watched ‘300’ a few times — to gain ground or shepherd someone through projectiles. It seemed that they had practiced for this.”

Washington Post reporter Joe Heim: “Counter-protesters fought back, also swinging sticks, punching and spraying chemicals. Others threw balloons filled with paint or ink at the white nationalists. Everywhere, it seemed violence was exploding. The police did not move to break up the fights.”

Washington Post reporter Joe Heim: “Although Virginia State Police and Charlottesville police were stationed along the sides and the rear of Emancipation Park, the Market Street side was unattended. As it filled with rally-goers and counter-protesters, the mix quickly became volatile.

Jordan Green in the Nation, a leftist publication: “A phalanx of black-helmeted white supremacists — members of the Traditionalist Workers Party, Identity Evropa, American Vanguard, and other hate warriors — commanded the steps at the southeast corner of the park, repelling attempted incursions by Wobblies, communists, and a multiracial cast of irregulars eager to fight back. Water bottles and other projectiles flew in both directions, while police tear-gas canisters thudded into an adjacent parking lot, oftentimes lobbed back into the park by plucky leftists.”

Unicorn Riot: “Police then pushed the white supremacists out of Emancipation Park, and closed the park…. Unable to continue rallying in the park, the white supremacists took to the streets, where they were quickly followed and confronted by anti-racists. Several more extremely violent fights took place, with police looking on from their nearby substation.”

Redneck Revolt, an armed leftist group that brought rifles to Justice Park, one of the spots where anti-racist groups had gathered: “Redneck Revolt members formed a unified skirmish line”

University of Virginia student Isabella Ciambotti: “I was on Market Street around 11:30 a.m. when a counter-protester ripped a newspaper stand off the sidewalk and threw it at alt-right protesters. I saw another man from the white supremacist crowd being chased and beaten. People were hitting him with their signs. A much older man, also with the alt-right group, got pushed to the ground in the commotion. Someone raised a stick over his head and beat the man with it, and that’s when I screamed and ran over with several other strangers to help him to his feet.”

Leftist anti-fascist organizers from Washington, D.C.: “Before the attack occurred, we chased the Nazis out of their park, removing their platform.

Clearly, there was violence on many sides, in approximately equal proportion. Impossible to statistically identity the proportion from hospital statistics.

Though I will acknowledge, one unhinged neo-nazi was the only one to employ a tactic endorsed by Islamic State, that of vehicle ramming. This isn’t surprising, since at least WW2, there has been an alliance between Nazis and Jihadists.

So, the LP should stop it’s dog-whistles to Jihadists (blaming the US for Jihadist grievances, and allowing their entry into the US).

Within the LP and libertarian movement, there is little danger of a Marxist association; but there is clearly a problem due to association with Judeophobia, and to a lesser extent, dislike of blacks. That was clearly evident in the Ron Paul phenomena, which I foresaw in 1987 and why I voted for Russel Means instead of Ron Paul (at the national convention, which was held in Seattle due to me funding travel to LNC for a Washington state rep).

There is also the curious case of the ubiquitous Matt Hasty, a neo-Confederate LP activist from Florida, who has frequently been (and as far as I know, still is) an Administrator for the national LP Facebook page. While he was administering the LP Social Media Marketing Group, I confronted him about his “The South Was Right” FB page, and it’s association with “White History Month” and David Duke. He didn’t want to talk about such issues and deleted me from the group (later, when someone else took over, I was able to rejoin). He also covered his tracks better in the groups he administers.

Matt was the one responsible for an infamous national LP FB post, a graphic featuring a quote from Jew-hater isolationist Charles Lindbergh. Our comments in dissent got a few of us (from the libertarian hawk crowd) banned from the LP page. (I’ve been banned twice and reinstated twice.) We wrote a letter to the LNC complaining that the page often singled out Israel for criticism (for receiving US foreign aid, and having warplanes). This got wide circulation among LP defenders, but I didn’t write it, I think Bruce did.

I offered to revise the letter, but my offer was rebuffed. So I wrote my own letter to Arvin Vohra, who was righteous enough to appoint me as Admin so I could re-instate several Israel-defenders who had been banned a year previous. I was able to reinstate some but not all (apparently FB software does not allow reinstating those banned over a year ago, as their names no longer appeared on the list of the banned, in the Admin panel). Arvin then fired me, claiming that I was part of a larger purge due to an alleged security lapse at the national page. Arvin has not responded to any of my subsequent e-mails, wherein I indignantly denied I was the wrong responsible for the alleged deletion of popular posts. Though we are FB friends and occasionally he responds to my posts.

The LP is opportunistic, and turns a blind eye to neo-Confederates and Judeophobes so long as they can be used as a cash-cow (like with Ron Paul), but all of a sudden get righteous when a Republican like Trump sends out muted dog whistles, that don’t go nearly as far as what Ron Paul did. I think the worst re-post Trump did, featured “Pepe the Frog”, an adopted icon of the neo-Nazis. I had to unfriend someone in the pro-Trump movement who used similar icons.

Nor is Ron Paul the only one in the libertarian movement with a Judeophobia problem. This can be traced at least as far back as libertarian guru, Albert J. Nock, who, in his last nationally-published article…
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1941/06/the-jewish-problem-in-america/306268/

…put blame on Jews. There was a similar problem with H.L.Mencken. The problem is actually wider, because opposition to US entry into WW1 (I agree) morphed into opposition into US entry into WW2 (I disagree, as did most but not all libertarians, after Pearl Harbor).

With 9/11, America had another Pearl Harbor. But not all libertarians agree(d). Some even claim, both events were false-flags, and use war criticism as a mask for their Judeophobia, claiming the US intervenes because Israel is the puppet master.

Now that Ron Paul can no longer be used as a cash cow, the LP has dropped Judeophobia and has adopted a new mask, countering critics of Islam, equating Islam with other religions, and reaching out to them all, even including the satanists. This amounts to a repudiation of Ayn Rand, secular Jews, and humanists in general. A descent into insanity.

(P) “My attempts to get a response article have so far drawn a blank.”

(K) What article? I scrolled back a ways, didn’t see any. This thread is getting long. Please re-post and I will refute if I disagree.

dL: Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Bill Hicks,…Did they identify as “libertarian.” No, probably not. Was their art libertarian?

me: Oh, maybe. Many of the commentariat limit the term L very narrowly, i.e., NAP Adherence, aka, NAPsters. I don’t recall any of them talking about non-aggression.

Rothbard was a cantankerous contrarian crank and left a lasting poison pill for the libertarian movement in the form of Rockwell, Hoppe and the “paleo” strategy. However, he did a brilliant send-up off everything which was and is wrong with Randroidism in “Mozart was a Red”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIk5C2qsRH8

Text at https://mises.org/library/mozart-was-red

There are a lot more that don’t go around sticking the label up. Ever read The Ice Opinion?

https://www.amazon.com/Ice-Opinion-T/dp/0312104863

Seems pretty damn libertarian to me. One of many examples.

Robert Carpozzi: “Has the “NAP rap” made the charts?”

Mmmm … that would be Eric July w/ BackWordz. Yeah, it made Billboard’s HeatSeekers chart

http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.ca/2017/04/backwordz-2-on-billboards-new-artist.html

dL – “The title was “Libertarian Comedian Dave Smith on the Alt-Right…” And I find it boring to tag art w/ explicit political or religious marketing labels. To me, “Libertarian comedian” is like “Christian comedian” or “Christian rock.” It is way to market second-rate art to a niche segment. If your art is good enough, you don’t need to explicitly tag yourself like that. Besides, the best stand-up comedy, like the best rock n roll, is explicitly anti-authoritarian, and hence implicitly libertarian.’

No matter how good one is, it means nothing if no one ever sees it. Marketing is important, and niche marketing is a good way to begin. It’s great that libertarians are seen as large enough to be a niche.

It’s a perfectly normal thing to put in the title of something like this when your fame level falls somewhere in between “who the fuck is this guy and why are they interviewing him” and “someone who needs no introduction.”

dL: Besides, the best stand-up comedy, like the best rock n roll, is explicitly anti-authoritarian, and hence implicitly libertarian.

me: And yet many — perhaps most — rock n rollers and comedians are not L. Perhaps the “best” artists are not L as well.

Has the “NAP rap” made the charts?

Why would that be?

I think I have found where Kevin Bjornson may have become confused. The event that Invictus’ friends set up a fake antifa group to disrupt was to feature a lot of actual libertarian speakers. They made the mistake of inviting Invictus and a few other fascists masquerading as libertarians though. That was very unfortunate. The fascists went on to set up a fake antifa front, cause disruption to cancel the libertarian event, gathered sympathy and attention for themselves, then went on to have their own sieg heiling event featuring Invictus in the vicinity. Separately, the libertarian event also went on but with a lot fewer speakers and participants in the audience all because they made the big mistake of treating opportunistic fascist parasites pretending to be libertarians at face value.

” common knowledge, that Soros funds Antifa groups.”

You confuse common knowledge with commonly repeated bullshit.

“asks me to document what is common knowledge, that Soros funds Antifa groups.”

Again, it depends on how you define antifa. If you mean Black Bloc style groups that directly advocate and/or participate in violence then you still have not even come close to proving anything like that. Refuse Fascism indirectly received 50k from Soros and put on an event where the majority of participants were not violent, but which the Black Bloc crashed and did in fact engage in violence. That does not equate to Soros funding violent antifa.

“Yet “V” makes a categorical assertion like that above, asserting knowledge about “100%” of pro-statute protesters, which is not only preposterous on it’s face, but undocumented.”

It’s fully documented. The rally was advertised with posters that featured nazi eagles, had a whole bunch of anti-semitic, white supremacist and neo-nazi speakers, and had a bunch of people there who wore KKK hoods and swastikas and/or waved swastika flags, chanted nazi and anti-semitic slogans, etc. People who don’t sympathize with those views in the US do not participate on the same side in such rallies.

“One of the groups participating in the statute removal protest, was the League of the South. I dislike the group and their love for southern culture. But still they are not neo-nazis or necessarily racists;”

Thanks for making my point for me. The League of the South has long since become explicitly white separatist and white supremacist. There are numerous white separatist and white supremacist statements on its websites, videos and publications and by its founder Dr. Michael Hill. Among many other things he has said that slavery is a Godly ordained institution, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

” some self-identified libertarians even have written for that group, like Tom Woods,…”

In his recent response to Tom Knapp about his involvement with the League, Woods acknowledges that they are now a racist organization and claims that they were not at the time when he was involved.

“who has frequently been promoted on the national LP Facebook page. ”

Yeah, they should stop promoting him now.

“Also the Daily Caller, a former Business Insider CTO, Oath Keepers, Fuentes of Right Side Broadcasting, etc.”

Did what exactly? Your writing here is unclear.

BTW, it was not a statue removal protest. That was just the backdrop. The main focus of the rally was opposition to Jews, immigration and race-mixing and what the organizers believe is “white genocide” aka “population replacement” orchestrated by Jews using race-mixing and immigration as tools to destroy the white race. They believe that the removal of the statues is part of the same Jewish globalist plot.

“claiming neo-nazis did a false flag threat against a “libertarian” event featuring Invictus, pretending to be Antifa in order to make their main speaker, Invictus, a martyr.”

Yes, that is exactly what they did.

““V” seems to be simultaneously claiming that Invictus is a libertarian (to refute my claim that neo-nazis haven’t disrupted libertarian events) and then claims he is participating in a neo-nazi event (that was threatened by self-serving neo-nazis). At least when you promote conspiracy false-flag theories, make sure they are consistent, and relevant to the point you are trying to make.”

I thought you claimed to have good reading comprehension? I never claimed or even slightly implied that Invictus is a libertarian. However, he did join the LP and pretended to be a libertarian and was invited to speak at a libertarian event. His presence there did cause a reaction by antifascists but then Invictus and his friends created a false front antifa group, as was pointed out by all the actual antifa groups in that area. This false front group engaged in a variety of malicious activities such as promoting pedophilia and allegedly was the cause of the police telling event venues that they could not guarantee safety. The libertarian events were in fact disrupted by fascists centered around Invictus pretending to be antifa. Invictus did in fact go on to speak at his own event nearby and bring a bunch of sieg heiling clowns along with him. This is not a theory, these are all facts and entirely consistent.

You lost me again with whatever point you are trying to make about street gangs. I’ve already told you that I’ll grant that they are on the side of the white supremacists for the purpose of this discussion, since they both tend to kill mostly non-whites. What point are you trying to make with that whole bizarre tangent again?

So to summarize Kevin Bjornson’s “evidence”:

Soros funded some organizations which in turn funded a very small percentage of the budget of some other organization which organized protests. These organizations are not the black bloc and don’t advocate violence. Most of the people who attended those protests did not engage in violence and did not necessarily condone it. However, the black bloc, which considers Soros to be a capitalist pig, also showed up at these same protests and engaged in some property destruction, rioting, hyperbolic “war” chanting, and nazi-punching. No one was killed. Was anyone even seriously injured? On the other hand, we can all agree, these actions by the black bloc were initiations of coercion and should be condemned.

But how exactly does this translate to Soros funding the black bloc? At most, he funded a very small percentage, indirectly at that, of the funding of the organizations whose events the Black Bloc asswipes crashed.

This documents that the “Alliance for Global Justice” received a $50,000 grant from the Tides Foundation:

http://afgj.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/AFGJ-990-2015-Small.pdf

This documents that the Tides Foundation received $23,988,039 in 2005 from Soros’ Open Society Foundation:
https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/225-tides-foundation-tides-center/

This documents that Alliance for Global Justice also received money directly from Open Society Foundation:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printgroupProfile.asp?grpid=7230

Of course Hoover was not a free enterprise believer. Neither is Trump, but so far he has not started a trade war, in fact, he got China to buy US coal without instituting tariffs. He uses threats as a bargaining chip in the “art of the deal”, a muted version of how China is using NK. Trump acknowledged this, and gave China a pass on trade if they would buy coal from the US instead of NK etc.

But the perception is that Hoover and Trump do represent free enterprise, which will be seen as failing due to the depression. This opens the door to the left, probably financed in large part by Soros. Here is proof that almost all his party donations are to dems:
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.php?id=D000000306

Clearly there is more toleration of Antifa on the democrat left, than the republican right. I’ve already produced documentation to that effect. Since antifa is leftist, that’s not surprising.

This documents that the “Alliance for Global Justice” received a $50,000 grant from the Tides Foundation:

http://afgj.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/AFGJ-990-2015-Small.pdf

This documents that the Tides Foundation received $23,988,039 in 2005 from Soros’ Open Society Foundation:
https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/225-tides-foundation-tides-center/

This documents that Alliance for Global Justice also received money directly from Open Society Foundation:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printgroupProfile.asp?grpid=7230

This documents that AFGJ funds, inter alia, the Refuse Fascism group:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7917
“Refuse Fascism (RF) was established shortly after the November 2016 U.S. presidential election in which Republican Donald Trump defeated Democrat Hillary Clinton. The creators of RF were Revolutionary Communist Party members Carl Dix, Sunsara Taylor (an advisory board member with World Can’t Wait), and Andy Zee (a spokesman for the Manhattan-based Revolution Books shop managed by the Maoist activist C. Clark Kissinger). One of RF’s key “founding initiators” was Cornel West.”
…
“In an effort to prevent a Trump presidency from even getting off the ground, the RF manifesto exhorted leftist agitators nationwide to pour into the streets by “the tens of millions,” so as to “create … a profound political crisis” that would stop “the fascist regime” from being “able to take the reins of government.”’
…
“RF drafted a petition titled Refuse Fascism Call to Action…Asserting, further, that “there is method to Trump’s madness” that “echoes Hitler” and is “more dangerous to the world than even Hitler,”’
…
“In February 2017, RF played a major role in staging a loud, violent riot that forced the popular gay conservative Milo Yiannopoulos to cancel a speech which he was scheduled to deliver at UC Berkeley. All told, more than 1,500 protesters gathered at Sproul Plaza on the Berkeley campus, chanting and holding placards that read: “No safe space for racists” and “This is war.” Some of the demonstrators hurled commercial-grade fireworks and rocks at police; threw Molotov cocktails that ignited fires; smashed windows of the student union center where Yiannopoulos had been slated to speak; tore down metal barriers; set fires near the campus bookstore; and damaged the construction site where a new dorm was being built. “As police dispersed the crowd from campus,” said one news report, “a remaining group of protesters moved into downtown Berkeley and smashed windows at several local banks.” By the time the mayhem was over, the rioters had caused at least $100,000 worth of property damage on the grounds of UC Berkeley, plus another $400,000 to $500,000 in damage off campus.”

Here is a video of the “Black Bloc” in action (Berkeley riot):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi_vX0tknJM

Kevin S Bjornson wrote:

Trump would be Hoover-ized.

What?!!

This comment seems to be predicated on the assumption that Hoover was a capitalist / free marketer who stumbled ass-backwards into a depression, then was villified for it, leaving an opening for the left. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Hoover jawboned businesses into hiking wages (preventing wages and prices from adjusting to equilibrium), implemented the Smoot-Hawley tarriff (decimating trade), and generally made a mess of the economy. This was a continuation of his policies as WWI Commerce Secretary overseeing wage and price controls, generally central planning like a dictator.

The analogy is apt. Trump is Hoovering himself: tanking the economy with his war on free trade and immigration. When a depression naturally results, he has only himself to blame. And yes, this will probably be followed by a hard left socialist / progressive administration with even worse policies falsely claiming Trump was a free market guy. But emphatically Trump is not the victim; rather, he is the instigator.

“BTW, when I participated in a pagan festival in the Lithuanian countryside, neo-nazis were there, and chanted during a concert”.

Thanks for sharing that. But it’s not a counterpoint to “…People who don’t sympathize with the KKK and Nazis don’t march together with them in this country. It just doesn’t happen.” If you meant it to be a counter-point to that, it would be useful to note that Lithuania is not in this country and that concerts and marches are two different sorts of things.

Therefore, it remains correct that “…People who don’t sympathize with the KKK and Nazis don’t march together with them in this country. It just doesn’t happen.” There were no “good people” on the fascist side in Charlottesville. 100% of them were white supremacists, and the statues were just a backdrop. Their main concern, as far as the entire Unite the Right rally, was the “Jew World Order” which is why the entire group chanted “Jews will not replace us.” It’s part of a white supremacist conspiracy theory that Jews control the world and are bringing in immigrants from third world countries as well as encouraging interracial marriage to destroy or “replace” the white race.

Are you trying to say that if you were only concerned about “southern heritage” and the statues that you would show up to an event with a bunch of guys sporting swastikas and KKK hoods who were chanting about Jews, to a rally with a bunch of neo-nazis and anti-semitic speakers with posters featuring nazi eagles (check out the Unite the Right rally poster and go over the list of speakers yourself), and that you would continue to participate without sharing any of their anti-semitic, racist or neo-nazi beliefs?

If that’s what you are trying to say it sounds like 100% pure unadulterated country manure to me, with plenty of flies buzzing all around it. If that’s not what you are trying to say then what was the point of bringing up your attendance at a pagan concert with neo-nazis in Lithuania?

“Most likely, capitalism would be blamed for the depression, and Trump would be Hoover-ized. ”

Faced with a depression or any other kind of crisis that hurts his popularity, he’ll most likely gin up a war to give the economy an artificial short term boost and his popularity a patriotic shot in the arm.

“But since they are better organized, and funded by those who know better, ”

Repeat assertions, still without evidence. All you have so far is that Soros gave some unspecified amount of money to organizations that are not the black bloc and do not espouse violence, but which did put on protests where the black bloc was a small participating group (not the main organizers to whom Soros donated). So your claim that they are better organized and funded is still without evidence.

” And that’s only if you don’t count the many non-white street gangs that do commit murder, almost routinely, and are not thought of as political (even though, by definition, they are political).”

They are non-ideological, but if you keep insisting, we can go ahead and count them as white supremacists as well, since they mostly kill other non-whites.

“So far, neo-Nazis have not shut down public talks or demonstrations by libertarians or conservatives;”

Actually they have. To take one example, in Pennsylvania earlier this year the fascists set up a fake antifa front group and phoned in threats that got a libertarian festival canceled from two locations, disrupted the festival plans, and caused many of the planned speakers and attendees to not show up. The fascists got what they wanted out of it – sympathy and publicity – and their main speaker, Augustus Invictus, went on to do his own speech in the same city where the original event was to be held, accompanied by sieg heiling followers. Meanwhile the libertarian event was held but with a lot fewer speakers as well as a lot fewer people in the audience. All the antifa groups in the area attest that this “antifa” group was a fake front fascist group.

“Germans today are not tribalistic, they are prosperous.”

Don’t tell Jeff Desist. He’ll tell them to get back to their blood and soil roots.

Hitler succeeded to power only because other trends outweighed traditional European individualism. Germans today are not tribalistic, they are prosperous. The aftermath of WW1 era caused great economic distress, Germans were looking for someone to blame and someone else to solve their problems.

The only way that neo-Nazis could come to power in the US, is if there were a severe economic depression and whites were hunted down for persecution (more than just affirmative action).

Most likely, capitalism would be blamed for the depression, and Trump would be Hoover-ized. This paves the way for neo-communists to come to power, like how FDR came to power.

If body counts are to be the only metric, then yes Antifa and the far left generally, would be a lesser threat. But since they are better organized, and funded by those who know better, they refrain from that extreme (so far). And that’s only if you don’t count the many non-white street gangs that do commit murder, almost routinely, and are not thought of as political (even though, by definition, they are political).

But still there are other threats that do not necessarily result in death. So far, neo-Nazis have not shut down public talks or demonstrations by libertarians or conservatives; while the far left (including Antifa) have done that, on many occasions.

Just for clarification: the question on the table is: who is the greater threat, antifa or the fascist/white nationalists. To me, that’s a question of POTENTIAL, not “who would win in a fight today” likes it’s The Jets and The Sharks of West Side Story.. I’m not concerned about small potatoes window breaking by a bunch of dopey kids.

The question that hit closer to the mark was yesterday’s musing: who would the military, FBI, and other police forces get behind? Which, to me, becomes a question of which philosophy the people en masse get behind. Its a question of which of these two sides will light the fires of fear and then hate in the people. Not who is more powerful now.

That’s where I must agree with Chomsky’s wisdom: antifa will not know what hit them when they finally strike a nerve in the American public. The pissant alt-right as it exists now will be swept aside by people who really know how to deploy violence.

A good Reason article about Antifa in Europe, starting out with a recent attack on two Libertarian activists:

http://reason.com/archives/2017/09/08/antifa-has-backed-its-message-with-viole
“Due to its political sophistication, the Swedish security police reckon that the autonomous leftist groups, of which Antifa is the most important one, constitute a more serious threat to the functioning of the country’s democracy than do the two other forces being watched, namely radical Islamists and neo-Nazis.”

Libertarians who are sanguine about the Antifa threat, remind me of Jews who weren’t worried about Hitler (in the early days).

My point in writing that comment was to state that I am a (soon to be baptized) Jehovah Witness, and since JWs reject political involvement and any form of racialism, I am rejecting white nationalism, including Polish nationalism – which is beholden to Catholicsm, a money hungry, New World Order Masonic cult.

I support the libertarian movement in Poland led by Janusz Korwin Mikke. Here’s a quote about him from someone who I’m pretty sure was an influential libertarian back in the day…not Austrian school, but still:

Janusz Korwin-Mikke, with whom I corresponded, had been active before liberation as an underground publisher, bringing out a translation of Capitalism and Freedom and Hayek’s Road to Serfdom, as well as other libertarian literature. Subsequently, he ran for president on a strict libertarian platform. At the time we were in Warsaw, his Union of Real Policy was housed in a former dwelling that was a literal maze of small offices, all occupied by young people actively working on spreading the libertarian gospel. We had very good, lively discussions with them.

—?Milton Friedman, Two lucky people: Memoirs – Milton Friedman, Rose. D. Friedman

Peace and blessings to all.

Krzysztof, that was one of the strangest posts I have ever read, but not in a bad way 🙂

seems apropos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9tmqrTMQPs

“I include among the neo-conservatives those that believe that the rights of individuals should be restricted and that the use of force is justified in cases of abortion, racial non-equality, sexual orientation non-equality, immigration and even free speech in public settings.”

You probably mean theocons and/or the old right and/or alt right. Neocons were initially Trotskyites who moved into the Democratic Party but were not happy with the liberal attitudes towards sex, drugs, gender roles and so on starting in the 1960s and 70s. They were also concerned about urban crime. Most of all, they were cold warriors based initially on traditional Trotskyite hostility to the USSR. Thus they became Republicans. What was “neo” about their conservatism was that they were not particularly against the welfare state, although they were no longer pushing outright socialist policies. Their main concern was foreign policy – primarily strong opposition to the USSR and to jihadism and strong support for Israel.

Starting around the Shrub administration “neocons” also became an epithet for all war hawks and specifically in contrast to “paleocons” who were more focused on pulling back from foreign commitments, limiting trade and immigration, re-establishing Christianity as a quasi-official religion, instituting socially conservative policies through the force of the state, and – at least in some cases – reestablishing segregation and white supremacy.

I agree with the remainder of your comment.

“Concerning Soros funding of Antifa:
http://www.frontpagemag.com”

That uses a very broad definition of antifa which is very much at odds with your definition of antifa as only black bloc style violent anarchists. It also does not say how much Soros allegedly gave these groups.

“Which book did Tom send Cantwell, and what was Tom’s reason for sending?”

Scroll up, it’s in the comments above, as well as at the kn@ppster blog,

“Regardless of what one thinks of Cantwell’s recent antics, he is being held in jail for bogus reasons.”

What’s bogus about it? He threatened violence, talked about gassing people specifically as a tactic months ago, went on to spray or gas people, threatened to keep doing it. I’d say that’s a good reason to lock him up.

“The Italian Mafia obviously did not care about “political correctness” or diversity or Affirmative Action.”

Which still does not make them an ideological organization like black bloc, fascists, jihadis, etc.

” I am not sure if it was banned in jails though.”

County jails are run by their counties. They all set their policies individually.

What Kevin said about the Italian Mafia reminds me of the movie, “Goodfellas,” which I think was based on a true story, where two of the lead characters, one played by Robert Dinero, and the other played by Ray Liotta, were not allowed to become “made men” in the Italian Mafia because both of their characters were only half Italian, as both were also half Irish.

The Italian Mafia obviously did not care about “political correctness” or diversity or Affirmative Action.

I don’t think Soros will succeed in installing his preferred president. He doesn’t even control the Ukraine gov’t, though he, along with the IRI, funded both Ukraine revolutions. I used to work with getting IRI funding for some liberty camps I organized in the former Soviet Union, but only sporadically as that violated official IRI policy. I even worked a short while for the Soros-funded language institute in Vilnius.

He started his career by helping to loot Jews in Nazi Germany. He wants to gain wealth (in large part) by exploiting chaos and destruction.

Concerning Soros funding of Antifa:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/267581/doj-secretly-investigating-soros-funded-antifa-daniel-greenfield

Tom sent Cantwell a book and urged others to follow suit. Whether or not they do, is a separate issue of Tom’s motivation, which is to torment to the guy. I’m addressing that issue, because Tom called me insane for not understanding his motivation (which I think is a weird motivation, which is why I didn’t understand until Tom explained, because generally Tom seems sound, even with flashes of brilliance, albeit corrupted by social metaphysics).

If you were to read Mein Kampf in prison (that’s assuming prison officials would let you), I guarantee you the other prisoners would know and most would look askance at your reading interests.

Sure, non-white street gangs fight others of their own ethnicity, as did the old Italian mafia. That doesn’t mean they don’t have a political agenda. WW2 Nazis would often have internal fights, Hitler designed it that way so that no one group could challenge his leadership.

Street gangs are often ethnic and identify with their own ethnicity, more so than others. Italians preferred to deal with fellow-Italians, even sub-dividing into Sicilians etc.

They organize force, often collect money with force, enforce a moral code, and have their own internal court system. These are all characteristics of gov’t. Often they seek control of the official gov’t, through silver or lead.

“And you think that would be antifa?”

Precisely.

The question on the table is: who is the greater threat? I don’t care about the small potatoes skirmishes going on now. Wait until law&order is threatened. Factor in who the people en masse will swing behind.

Antifa won’t know what hit them. The mass media that doesn’t get behind the fascist state will simply be shut off.

Neo-Nazis are not “center right”, and are extremely unpopular. If by “right” you mean, for lower taxes, less regulation, and more economic freedom, supportive of Israel, along with a general belief in the constitution, that does not fit the nazis.

While the left is well-entrenched in mass media, academia, and bureaucracies.

Whichever political force controls the US military, National Guard, police, and FBI, will out-gun any other possible group.

“Probably most of the people who protested the removal of the Gen Lee statute, were not KKK or neo-Nazi.”

There’s where you go wrong. The Unite the Right march was not only about the statues. If it were, they would not have walked down the street chanting slogans about Blood and Soil and Jews. People who don’t sympathize with the KKK and Nazis don’t march together with them in this country. It just doesn’t happen.

“Similarly, probably most who were there to protest those fascists, were not Antifa.”

It depends on what definition of Antifa you are using. By one definition of the term every single one of them was antifa by definition by virtue of their being there alone if nothing else.

“Antifa is better funded and organized, with many more members.”

If you are using Antifa to mean Black Bloc, I have seen no evidence of this. If you are using a broader definition of antifa, you’d have to back up the claim that they are all violent and pose a threat. It seems to me that you are conflating two different things – there are more people who are organized in some sort of antifascist movement or group, but only a small number who commit violent actions. To the extent that those who commit violent actions are part of some kind of organized groups for that purpose, I don’t see the evidence that they are larger in number, better organized or pose a greater than fascists.

“there are numerous non-white ethnic gangs who have murdered, while the old-style Italian mafia (composed of whites) is almost extinct.”

There are numerous ethnic gangs of all kinds, including whites who are not Italian. But this has nothing to do with ideologically based violent gangs. Non-ideological gangs mostly kill other gang members of their own ethnicity or race. If they kill gang members of another race it is no different to them, it is not because of race or ideology but rather fighting over territory, revenge and profits.

Probably most of the people who protested the removal of the Gen Lee statute, were not KKK or neo-Nazi. Similarly, probably most who were there to protest those fascists, were not Antifa.

Concerning the relative threat, comparing Antifa to neo-Nazis, probably Antifa is the greater threat, even if they haven’t yet killed anyone they have assaulted and sooner or later someone will die. Antifa is better funded and organized, with many more members.

Plus, “Antifa” is just the tip of the iceberg, there are numerous non-white ethnic gangs who have murdered, while the old-style Italian mafia (composed of whites) is almost extinct.

Similarly, police are a greater threat than private murderers, because police are more numerous, better funded and organized, and commit more aggression total than private murderers. Even though police have murdered few, they have murdered far fewer than private murderers.

I’ll amend that to say I agree if what was meant was neo-confederates. I’m not sure how neo-conservatives are relevant here. I don’t think they were discussed in the original article above at all. As far as foreign policy, the racist right is generally opposed to the foreign policy priorities of the neocons. They tend to be pro-Russia and anti-Israel, exactly the opposite of the neocons. They are certainly not pacifists – like Trump, they bristle with hostility towards China, Korea, Latin America and Africa. As far as Muslims and Middle Easterners go, most of them don’t want them in what they call “white countries” but support them in their wars and hostilities against Israel and otherwise have no interest in intervening in their affairs for the most part.

““Western culture” is not a “dog whistle” to those who try to attach themselves to it ”

It depends on the context. As those on the alt right use it, it is absolutely a euphemism for “white race,” just as they sometimes say “zionism” or “globalists” when they actually means Jews. It doesn’t matter that western civilization, zionism and globalism have separate meanings of their own.

“The same LP activists that now pose self-righteously to condemn and ridicule Trump’s supposed dog-whistles”

Nothing “supposed” about them. You had the president claim on national tv that lots of good people were marching alongside hooded klansman and people waving swastika banners chanting “blood and soil” and “Jews will not replace us.” He has retweeted repeatedly from white supremacist and neonazi twitter accounts. He has appointed white supremacists to white house positions. If anything, it rises above a dog whistle.

“re-post (otherwise benign) tweets from dubious sources. ”

They were not otherwise benign nor was there anything dubious about them.

“I guess I must be stupid, despite reading the equivalent of a book a day and scoring in the 99.9th percentile of college students in reading speed/comprehension.”

There are different kinds of intelligence. No doubt you can read technical manuals backwards and forwards in six languages in seconds flat and understand everything immediately. That doesn’t keep you from having massive blind spots in other areas.

“(K) Cantwell was not charged for his political beliefs, but for acting on them.

“Simple assault” would be something like, lightly punching someone in a bar. Spraying strong mace point-blank into someone’s face is “use of a noxious chemical agent” and that is not a “magically enhanced” charge.”

For once I will agree with Kevin and disagree with Tom. For this purpose I am taking it on faith that Kevin is describing what Tom said accurately.

“That goes beyond psychologically tormenting someone in a weak position (itself a weird thing to do, such a psychological proclivity could lead to more serious weirdness, if not checked).”

Well yeah, if not checked. But again, I’m not expecting that any books ever made their way to Cantwell, and if they did, is it really torment? He doesn’t have to read them if he doesn’t want to. Seems pretty innocuous to me. He may read them out of boredom. It seems unlikely at this stage that a light would go on for him but nothing is impossible.

“Anyone who advocates or engages in initiating violence for political purposes needs to be denied position within the Libertarian Party.”

I agree, which is why I opposed Johnson/Weld 2016, and oppose Weld for 2020 (he has floated a trial balloon to that effect). Johnson proposes a 23% national sales tax, and also would initiate force to compel bakers to do transactions they don’t want to do.

“In general I agree with the premises of this article in that it is the neo-conservatives who are more a danger to the public perception of the libertarian movement then the violent leftists if only because the neo-conservatives are most often perceived to be closer to the libertarians.”

This appears to equate all those who oppose the tearing down of statutes, with neo-Confederates and neo-Nazis, and also equates neo-Nazis with neo-Conservatives. Implicitly this also equates all who are not categorical anti-interventionists, with neo-conservatives.

Again I make the point, many more murders are committed by private persons, than police. Yet police commit far more aggression in total, than private persons.

I guess I don’t have the same sense of “humor” as the cool-kid in-crowd, I hadn’t imagined that adults would indulge in that kind of psychological tormenting. I guess I must be stupid, despite reading the equivalent of a book a day and scoring in the 99.9th percentile of college students in reading speed/comprehension.

Tom said this (in “Libertarian Party USA unofficial), in answer to Marc’s question, what was Cantwell arrested for:
“Thomas L. Knapp That’s kind of a loaded question. In reality, he was arrested for 1) simple assault and 2) his screwed up political beliefs. But the charges were magically enhanced to something like “use of a noxious chemical agent in” said common assault.”

(K) Cantwell was not charged for his political beliefs, but for acting on them.

“Simple assault” would be something like, lightly punching someone in a bar. Spraying strong mace point-blank into someone’s face is “use of a noxious chemical agent” and that is not a “magically enhanced” charge.

Tom’s comments, though bracketed by political criticism of Cantwell, seem to trivialize or politicize the charges. That goes beyond psychologically tormenting someone in a weak position (itself a weird thing to do, such a psychological proclivity could lead to more serious weirdness, if not checked).

The article that Paulie posts, is a mixture of truth and falsity, whether from stupidity or deception I don’t know.

“Western culture” is not a “dog whistle” to those who try to attach themselves to it (like barnacles). Reason and liberty were promoted by western civilization, more than others. Even today, Europe and the Anglosphere tend to have more of those attributes, than the average of the rest of the world. To deny that, requires a lot of self-deception, and to say that, promotes false beliefs in others.

Western culture (as traditionally defined) has Greco-Roman and humanistic origins. I am not of Greco-Roman origin, ethnically, but I have assimilated to western culture due to it’s universal values. There are other cultures which tend to oppose liberty and reason. Which means, they are a physical threat if they act on their opposition, and a cultural threat if they merely express false beliefs.

The same LP activists that now pose self-righteously to condemn and ridicule Trump’s supposed dog-whistles (as if Antifa’s opposition to fascism makes them libertarians), were avid supporters of Ron Paul–who did a lot more than dog-whistle to weirdos or re-post (otherwise benign) tweets from dubious sources. The difference is, Ron Paul ran on the LP ticket and was a rabid anti-interventionist, while Trump ran on the GOP ticket and opposes some interventions while supporting others. So this is really about institutional loyalty. And virtue-signalling preening.

Elsewhere (after my criticism) Tom has explained that his gifting of a book to Cantwell was meant to poke a jab at him, in a kind of joke. However he did not initially explain that in his his encouragement to send books. In fact, one poster even urged sending information on how to avoid prison rape, so I am not alone in coming to this interpretation. Normally, books are sent into prison to help the recipient pass the time reading and to provide emotional support.

I accept Tom’s explanation, but still do not see the point in giving this guy material that might re-convert him to libertarianism, regardless of intention. What is the point in tormenting him, if meant as a jab? Surely there are more productive uses of scarce time and resources. At this point of multiple crises, libertarians shouldn’t indulge in such frivolities, even if emotionally satisfying to the tormentor.

Accusing me of dishonesty and insanity is a form of personal attack that can be considered abusive, and that does work to defeat the purpose of constructive dialogue.

“Tom then tries to excuse his new role in creating a support network for Cantwell”

No, I don’t try to excuse that, for the simple reason that I’m not doing that. And it’s not plausible for someone who is both 1) honest and 2) compos mentis to think that I’m doing that.

For those who like to send books to imprisoned felons, Randall Lord is a more worthy recipient of your generosity than Christopher Cantwell.

Mr. Lord is a former LP candidate from Louisiana who is currently imprisoned for trading in cryptocurrencies.

Randall B Lord 18653-035
USP ATLANTA
U.S. PENITENTIARY
P.O. BOX 150160
ATLANTA, GA 30315

Per facebook:
Sarah Daggers: I know he like Scottish heritage things. He likes guns and historical stuff as well.

Sorry if this is a duplicate. Moderators, please feel free to delete one of them.

Andy:

Here is local TV news footage from the day that the bombing happened where they talked about multiple explosions and multiple bombs being found inside the AP Murrah Federal Building.

For all of your actual intelligence, you still continue to perpetuate this garbage. After any major disaster, there are always conflicting reports. This is not proof of some ridiculous “false-flag” crap. It’s evidence that it was a crazy situation with a lot of chaos.

Ever play “the telephone game” as a child?

This is for all of the people who think that I’m “crazy” for saying that the Oklahoma City bombing was a false flag event.

I don’t think it’s crazy to speculate that any one terrorist attack is a false flag. I think it *is* crazy to constantly say that *every single terrorist attack we ever talk about* is a false flag.

Great video that shows how ridiculous the official government story about the OKC bombing really is, in 4 minutes and 43 seconds.

OKC – A Conspiracy Theory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W6KlZd6Qic

The reason he’s held on charges most would get off on, obviously is because of his symbolism as a very vocal and pro-violence white supremacist who got mucho publicity after Charlottesville.

He even just got since this his very detailed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Cantwell article. Some lefties are posting a “libertarian” comedy act he did a few years back which actually wasn’t too bad – I’ve seem much worse at amateur hour – until he got racist towards the end.

If Knapp’s rational books can bring him back into the light – and he stops drinking, talking trash and dissing women – that would be great. Alcoholics Anonymous has healed A LOT of souls!!

That’s what I’d send him if I wanted to be on the govt’s list for associating with him. I noticed on CC’s website is being well taken care of by his buddy Joeseph Ross. I read somewhere Invictus allegedly is fundraising for him.

Of course, now he’s going to have to join up with White Supremacists in jail to protect himself. (Which he probably did last time he was in jail too.)

For you fans of astrology, he’s a scorpio with a capricorn moon, which can be pretty scary combination actually.

“Cantwell is charged with pepper-spraying people as they approached him, as he participated in a torch-lit parade chanting “Jews will not replace us”. ….I do not wish to imply, that all who protested the removal of the Robert E. Lee statute were neo-nazis. ”

And what do Jews have to do with the statue, unless you are a neo-nazi or at a minimum a believer in a jewish conspiracy that runs the world? Besides, who else would march right next to neo-nazis who are openly flying the swastika? Most people wouldn’t be caught dead doing that unless they were of the same mindset themselves.

“V–(may I call you that?)–apparently you missed this:
http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/hillarys-campaign-spox-compares-d-day-soldiers-to-antifa/
“The campaign spokesman for former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign compared allied forces during War World II to Antifa protesters Tuesday night.””

In that context, the reference would have made sense as a reference to all of those who stood up to the fascists, rather than in the sense that Steyn is using the term, to apply only to the black bloc. But even if it’s true that many Clintonistas admire black-clad anarchists who punch nazis, break windows and light cars and buildings on fire – which I somehow doubt – being the paramilitary wing of an organization would involve, at a minimum, belonging to and agreeing with said organization. My guess is that if you asked your typical black-clad molotov cocktail wielding Black Bloc member, support for Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party would not be their position. Do you think it would?

V–(may I call you that?)–apparently you missed this:
http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/hillarys-campaign-spox-compares-d-day-soldiers-to-antifa/
“The campaign spokesman for former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign compared allied forces during War World II to Antifa protesters Tuesday night.”

Those who have read Steyn’s article with comprehension, know he was talking about antifa, not everybody who was there to counter-protest. I’ve viewed several videos of antifa in action, and have seen none who are unmasked (except in mug shots).

But since you bring up the topic of masking of identity, care to say why you adopt the nom de plume “V for Vagina”? I take it it, this is a homage to the movie which glorified the attempted terrorist bombing by Guy Fawkes, of the British Parliament, for religious reasons. In what would have been an eerie precursor of AQ bombings.

Steyn again,

“Thus, as I pointed out on the radio last month, the violence on American streets derives from today’s paramilitary wing of the Democrat Party – antifa -”

Say what? The anarcho-communists of the black bloc branch of antifa are actually Hillary-loving Democrats? Is Steyn high on bath salts or does he just love to make shit up? I’m tempted to conclude that the answer to that last one is “yes.”

“while Trump non-pandering is vilified.”

What do you mean Trump’s non-pandering? Are we watching the same news? Not only did he say there were lots of good people on the nazi side in Charlottesville, he has retweeted multiple times from neo-nazi twitter accounts, appointed white supremacists like Gorka…it goes on and on.

Once again, pandering to neo-Nazis is excused, if they are affiliated with the LP or movement. Ron Paul’s real pandering is excused, while Trump non-pandering is vilified.

Cantwell is an alcoholic who is looking for an ideological justification for his love of violence (most of it initiatory or otherwise questionable). There is plenty of documentation and libertarians should avoid this guy like the plague:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/crying-nazi-christopher-cantwells-lawyer-says-hes-just-kidding-about-killing-jews?fref=gc&dti=259892904054714

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/24/us/christopher-cantwell-arrested.html?mcubz=3&_r=0&fref=gc&dti=259892904054714

I’m surprised that the Knappster would stoop this low as to fall for this guy’s schtick.

Some interesting suggestions at the Knappster article and comments on that.

In 2000/2001 a couple LP members joined the black bloc in anti-globalization protests for the “fun” of watching people destroy stuff and fight with cops. Somewhere I have a filed a real or self-photoshopped (can’t remember which) of one of them up near a cop’s horse.

So there’s no doubt there are some guys in there ON BOTH SIDES just to get their jollies, feel their manhood, etc.

I highly doubt any of the “antifa” people are democrats or voted for HRC. They are anarchists. .

Party affiliation varies. Some are Democrats because they see them as the lesser evil in the electoral space, some are non-voters, some are Greens or various kinds of socialists or communists, there are probably even some Republicans based on the mistaken idea that the greater evil is what we should vote for to, you know, hasten the revolution, man. Depending on how you define antifa – that is, whether you count only the violent commie types or all antifascists – some of the latter are in the LP as well.

On the other hand, the alt-right neo-Nazi white supremacist scum gladly proclaim their allegiance to Trump and the GOP.

Many of them do but not all. Unfortunately some are in the LP. Some are non-voters. Some are in the tiny far right parties. Some of them are actually Democrats, maybe for economic reasons or family legacy (yellow dogs). Some are the “hasten the revolution” types – a lot of them actually supported Obama’s election, believe it or not. They thought it would bring on a race war or something. There are also socialist and environmentalist strains of white nationalism which in a few cases translate into support for socialist and green parties, even though those parties are expressly antifascist.

Paulie: well, i guess we’ve beat that dead street fighter enough by now… yuk yuk